| Time |
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mtvisitor |
good morning. |
| 00:47 |
mtvisitor |
https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC |
| 00:47 |
mtvisitor |
if there is some rule changed or new rules, please update thanks. |
| 00:48 |
mtvisitor |
some chatter's name is strange (weird ?). |
| 00:48 |
mtvisitor |
mtvisitor #minetest-dev Cannot change nickname because you are banned or quieted while in this channel. |
| 00:49 |
mtvisitor |
please unban me for #minetest-dev channel several weeks later if possible. thanks. |
| 00:49 |
* mtvisitor |
will review Tenplus1's mod source code later if possible. |
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mtvisitor |
happy teachers' day! 🤝 |
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| 03:33 |
Slashcat |
Hello! Is there any way to adjust the 'tick speed' in a minetest world? |
| 03:34 |
Slashcat |
Perhaps there's some command mod I can't find? |
| 03:53 |
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| 04:52 |
Mantar |
there's dedicated_server_step, but it doesn't apply to hosted mode servers |
| 04:53 |
Mantar |
the time_speed variable will adjust the rate of time passage; players can also have their day/night ratio altered |
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untilted |
is obj:get_pos() passed by reference ? |
| 12:46 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> no, it's a copy of the position, you need to call set_pos if you want to update it |
| 13:00 |
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untilted |
I see, must have been my mistake, I thought I teleported myself by changing a local variable that copied my get_pos() |
| 13:24 |
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| 13:24 |
dxt73 |
Hii yo |
| 13:25 |
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| 13:25 |
dxt73 |
Hi |
| 13:26 |
dxt73 |
Nothing here, better use discord |
| 13:42 |
[MatrxMT] |
<🇬regon> Or Matrix |
| 13:54 |
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MTDiscord |
<warr1024> or https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/today |
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untilted |
:dxt73 stay |
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| 18:03 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> no, go, we don't need people who expect a response to "hi" then leave after literally 2 minutes. |
| 18:03 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> 1) "Just ask the question" principle - this IRC isn't just a random friendly chatroom, you come here with a question or discussion topic, not just a hi |
| 18:04 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> 2) we don't need people with super-short attention spans anyway, it's better they stay on the discord |
| 18:06 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> if you send short attention span people over to discord, they'll be disappointed to find out you need an even longer attention span here. |
| 18:08 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> spam reports continued https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=439058#p439058 |
| 18:09 |
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| 18:31 |
Desour |
don't use discord. it's bad |
| 18:40 |
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| 18:43 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Discord is, in fact, bad. |
| 18:43 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Matrix is also bad, as is IRC, though each of them is a different kind of bad. |
| 18:53 |
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| 18:53 |
ireallyhateirc |
everything is bad, you can pick proprietary/floss and whether or not it's spyware though... |
| 18:56 |
Desour |
while being spyware is bad, discord is also a bad case of vendor lock-in. |
| 18:56 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Indeed, you have to pick your own flavor of bad. You can't just make some blanket declaration that something is bad, implying that other things are not bad, and that it should apply to everyone. |
| 18:57 |
Desour |
you can't read the stuff without installing their software. it's not an open protocol. and they can at any point require you to sell your firstborn to keep using their services |
| 18:57 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Discord's vendor lock-in only applies if you're ONLY on discord. If you also already access the same community by IRC and Matrix at the same time, it's pretty much a non-issue. |
| 18:57 |
jonadab |
The problem with Discord is mainly that it's a proprietary protocol, so if the reference-implementation client isn't to your liking, you're out of luck. |
| 18:57 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Similarly, the whole "spyware" aspect depends on how much privacy you expect out of the things you're doing publicly. |
| 18:58 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Yeah, Discord's UI offers some pretty ugly trade-offs. |
| 18:58 |
jonadab |
IRC isn't bad in the sense of having been designed badly; it's just *old* and expectations have changed. |
| 18:58 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> The advantage they offer is decent mobile support, which is only an advantage over IRC if you can't run a good client like thelounge that gives you the same experience with the better protocol. |
| 18:58 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> On the downside, Discord does a lot of really annoying stuff to try to get you to pay for Nitro. |
| 18:59 |
Desour |
@warr1024: I rarely see people using discord and bridging their channels |
| 18:59 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Some of it is merely irritating, like nags and stuff, but some of it is rather manipulative, like making it very hard to disable some of the privileges that come with Nitro so that people who have paid for it are always helping to pressure those who haven't. |
| 18:59 |
Desour |
"on the downside", you mean "on one of the many downsides" |
| 19:00 |
jonadab |
The theoretical argument for Discord over IRC, is that it can do voice chat. But A) I don't really have any use for that, and also B) even if I did, I wouldn't need for it to be integrated into my IRC client. |
| 19:00 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1283139934554816553/absolutelyproprietary.png?ex=66e1e8af&is=66e0972f&hm=918772d4fe80bd49b1f268123280a210dc64ef68d0e4914e79b824d7fc77576a& |
| 19:00 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> "The" is a bit of a bold assumption |
| 19:01 |
Krock |
stop hating on Steam. Valve made Linux gaming great |
| 19:01 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> If you look at IRC as a protocol on its own, it doesn't have voice chat, but if you look at IRC as a part of an ecosystem, it does. It's not too hard to setup a mumble server or something and just use that. |
| 19:01 |
jonadab |
Well, there's also network effect. "My friend uses Discord, so I want to use that to talk to him." |
| 19:01 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Yes, that's one big reason why I'm still, among other platforms, on Discord |
| 19:01 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Krock: Who hated on Steam? |
| 19:02 |
jonadab |
Right, like I said, if I needed voice chat, I still wouldn't need it to be implemented by the same software that implements the text chat. |
| 19:02 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> The network effect is sort of unavoidable, and we few making individual decisions not to use Discord would make more or less no difference in that. The best solution is to do the responsible thing and bridge. |
| 19:04 |
jonadab |
Network effect is why I dislike proprietary protocols. I like to be able to make decisions on what software to use, independently of choices for who to talk to. |
| 19:04 |
Desour |
@warr1024: you don't have to be part of the network advertisement effect. you don't have to recommend other people to discord. you don't have to send them discord links. and you don't have to use discord on an irc channel |
| 19:04 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> My user experiences across Discord, Matrix, and IRC are all pretty comparable. It's good motivation for me to be connected to all of them so that I have access to as much of the community as possible. Each platform has some annoyances that I just have to deal with. |
| 19:05 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Desour: no, I don't have to do any of those things, same as I don't have to participate on IRC or Matrix, or be part of the community, or contribute to a project. |
| 19:06 |
Desour |
@warr1024: you said, the network effect is unavoidable. my message was referring to that |
| 19:06 |
jonadab |
I tried to use Discord via Bitlbee, but it proved to be prohibitively difficult to keep working consistently, and eventually I just gave up. |
| 19:07 |
jonadab |
Some channels are bridged (including most of the NetHack ones for example, and this one), which is fine I guess. |
| 19:07 |
jonadab |
There are some Discord-only communities that I can't really participate in without jumping through ridiculous hoops, and I just gave up on them. |
| 19:07 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Desour: ah, okay, that makes sense. It's just scope neglect then. |
| 19:08 |
Krock |
@greenxenith The guy in that meme |
| 19:09 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Indeed, he is really silly |
| 19:09 |
ireallyhateirc |
isn't Discord just a centralized service anyway? You'd still be using that service, even if you change the client. And the desktop app is most likely crap on electron, so you can use a web browser for it anyway... |
| 19:11 |
ireallyhateirc |
not a fan of proprietary software, but whatever works for promoting minetest I guess |
| 19:11 |
Desour |
@warr1024: idk how scope neglect comes to play here |
| 19:13 |
jonadab |
ireallyhateirc: I don't mind proprietary software nearly as much, if the protocols and data formats are open, or even de-facto open. For example, I have no particular objection to MS Word. I mean, I don't want to use recent versions of it, because the ribbon UI is terrible, but I don't mind exchanging documents with people who use it. |
| 19:15 |
ireallyhateirc |
compatibility and open protocols are inherently incompatible with the business model of proprietary software monopolists such as Microsoft, and MS Word is a bad example, because MS Office never imports LibreOffice documents properly and vice versa. Though I believe we're too much off topic and should probably stop discussing this. I have to rework my minetest mod now :) |
| 19:15 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Personally, I have a distaste for proprietary software, but I won't take it to extremes either. It's sort of like candy: it seems sweet at first, but gets sickening pretty quickly, and it can have some pretty bad long-term health effects. It's something you should use sparingly. |
| 19:16 |
Desour |
jonadab: microsoft word has made their document format specification deliberately hard to implement, I've heard |
| 19:17 |
Desour |
stop hating on candy! |
| 19:17 |
jonadab |
Perhaps a better example, is PKZip, which was proprietary software, but the data format spec was published so it could be implemented, and now basically everyone uses the format. |
| 19:18 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> How bad a proprietary system or protocol ends up being often depends a lot on how much pressure they get from free alternatives. Office documents are bad because they CAN be. Discord is less bad because alternatives like IRC and Matrix, and even other proprietary alternatives like Slack, make being bad risky. |
| 19:18 |
ireallyhateirc |
jonadab, even a broken clock will show you the right hour twice a day. Most proprietary programs will explicitly forbid you to do any reverse engineering. |
| 19:19 |
jonadab |
ireallyhateirc: If they keep the data formats and/or protocols proprietary, then I object to that. |
| 19:20 |
MTDiscord |
<sx.here> Funny to see people still talking like if all of the Microsoft would be proprietary. |
| 19:22 |
ireallyhateirc |
ah yes, they love open sores now. Also the candy was poisoned, but you agreed to license terms so that's fine. |
| 19:23 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> the purpose of poisoned candy is just to accelerate your weight loss, obviously |
| 19:25 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Poisoning candy is, on some level, redundant. |
| 19:29 |
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| 19:30 |
ireallyhateirc |
Ok, an actual minetest question now: While using heightmap I noticed it would sometimes have values such as -31000 or similar for chunks that are obviously ground level. What does that mean? |
| 19:40 |
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| 19:45 |
Krock |
ireallyhateirc: I'd assume that's when no ground exists for the current chunk. You might be fastest to log the coordinates where this happens, and then check the locations for similarities. |
| 19:47 |
ireallyhateirc |
I guess so, just found it weird that it gives a number instead of nil, but that's probably a C++ artifact |
| 19:50 |
MTDiscord |
<zanderong> poisoning anyone is, on some level, redundant |
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| 23:02 |
swift110-mobile |
hey all |
| 23:03 |
swift110-mobile |
would be cool to have a 3d version of minetest |
| 23:03 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> uh..... did you per chance mean 2d? else i dont follow |
| 23:04 |
ireallyhateirc |
that's the most drunk thing I've heard here so far |
| 23:05 |
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| 23:05 |
ireallyhateirc |
4d minetest with tesseract voxels |
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MTDiscord |
<theidealist> go play 4d miner |
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MTDiscord |
<warr1024> maybe they meant 3rd. We had an 0.4 and a 5.0 but no 3.0 |
