Time Nick Message 00:47 mtvisitor good morning. 00:47 mtvisitor https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC 00:47 mtvisitor if there is some rule changed or new rules, please update thanks. 00:48 mtvisitor some chatter's name is strange (weird ?). 00:48 mtvisitor mtvisitor #minetest-dev Cannot change nickname because you are banned or quieted while in this channel. 00:49 mtvisitor please unban me for #minetest-dev channel several weeks later if possible. thanks. 00:49 * mtvisitor will review Tenplus1's mod source code later if possible. 00:51 mtvisitor happy teachers' day! 🤝 03:33 Slashcat Hello! Is there any way to adjust the 'tick speed' in a minetest world? 03:34 Slashcat Perhaps there's some command mod I can't find? 04:52 Mantar there's dedicated_server_step, but it doesn't apply to hosted mode servers 04:53 Mantar the time_speed variable will adjust the rate of time passage; players can also have their day/night ratio altered 12:44 untilted is obj:get_pos() passed by reference ? 12:46 MTDiscord no, it's a copy of the position, you need to call set_pos if you want to update it 13:10 untilted I see, must have been my mistake, I thought I teleported myself by changing a local variable that copied my get_pos() 13:24 dxt73 Hii yo 13:25 dxt73 Hi 13:26 dxt73 Nothing here, better use discord 13:42 [MatrxMT] <🇬regon> Or Matrix 14:33 MTDiscord or https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/today 15:42 untilted :dxt73 stay 18:03 [MatrxMT] no, go, we don't need people who expect a response to "hi" then leave after literally 2 minutes. 18:03 [MatrxMT] 1) "Just ask the question" principle - this IRC isn't just a random friendly chatroom, you come here with a question or discussion topic, not just a hi 18:04 [MatrxMT] 2) we don't need people with super-short attention spans anyway, it's better they stay on the discord 18:06 MTDiscord if you send short attention span people over to discord, they'll be disappointed to find out you need an even longer attention span here. 18:08 [MatrxMT] spam reports continued https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=439058#p439058 18:31 Desour don't use discord. it's bad 18:43 MTDiscord Discord is, in fact, bad. 18:43 MTDiscord Matrix is also bad, as is IRC, though each of them is a different kind of bad. 18:53 ireallyhateirc everything is bad, you can pick proprietary/floss and whether or not it's spyware though... 18:56 Desour while being spyware is bad, discord is also a bad case of vendor lock-in. 18:56 MTDiscord Indeed, you have to pick your own flavor of bad. You can't just make some blanket declaration that something is bad, implying that other things are not bad, and that it should apply to everyone. 18:57 Desour you can't read the stuff without installing their software. it's not an open protocol. and they can at any point require you to sell your firstborn to keep using their services 18:57 MTDiscord Discord's vendor lock-in only applies if you're ONLY on discord. If you also already access the same community by IRC and Matrix at the same time, it's pretty much a non-issue. 18:57 jonadab The problem with Discord is mainly that it's a proprietary protocol, so if the reference-implementation client isn't to your liking, you're out of luck. 18:57 MTDiscord Similarly, the whole "spyware" aspect depends on how much privacy you expect out of the things you're doing publicly. 18:58 MTDiscord Yeah, Discord's UI offers some pretty ugly trade-offs. 18:58 jonadab IRC isn't bad in the sense of having been designed badly; it's just *old* and expectations have changed. 18:58 MTDiscord The advantage they offer is decent mobile support, which is only an advantage over IRC if you can't run a good client like thelounge that gives you the same experience with the better protocol. 18:58 MTDiscord On the downside, Discord does a lot of really annoying stuff to try to get you to pay for Nitro. 18:59 Desour @warr1024: I rarely see people using discord and bridging their channels 18:59 MTDiscord Some of it is merely irritating, like nags and stuff, but some of it is rather manipulative, like making it very hard to disable some of the privileges that come with Nitro so that people who have paid for it are always helping to pressure those who haven't. 18:59 Desour "on the downside", you mean "on one of the many downsides" 19:00 jonadab The theoretical argument for Discord over IRC, is that it can do voice chat. But A) I don't really have any use for that, and also B) even if I did, I wouldn't need for it to be integrated into my IRC client. 19:00 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1283139934554816553/absolutelyproprietary.png?ex=66e1e8af&is=66e0972f&hm=918772d4fe80bd49b1f268123280a210dc64ef68d0e4914e79b824d7fc77576a& 19:00 MTDiscord "The" is a bit of a bold assumption 19:01 Krock stop hating on Steam. Valve made Linux gaming great 19:01 MTDiscord If you look at IRC as a protocol on its own, it doesn't have voice chat, but if you look at IRC as a part of an ecosystem, it does. It's not too hard to setup a mumble server or something and just use that. 19:01 jonadab Well, there's also network effect. "My friend uses Discord, so I want to use that to talk to him." 19:01 MTDiscord Yes, that's one big reason why I'm still, among other platforms, on Discord 19:01 MTDiscord Krock: Who hated on Steam? 19:02 jonadab Right, like I said, if I needed voice chat, I still wouldn't need it to be implemented by the same software that implements the text chat. 19:02 MTDiscord The network effect is sort of unavoidable, and we few making individual decisions not to use Discord would make more or less no difference in that. The best solution is to do the responsible thing and bridge. 19:04 jonadab Network effect is why I dislike proprietary protocols. I like to be able to make decisions on what software to use, independently of choices for who to talk to. 19:04 Desour @warr1024: you don't have to be part of the network advertisement effect. you don't have to recommend other people to discord. you don't have to send them discord links. and you don't have to use discord on an irc channel 19:04 MTDiscord My user experiences across Discord, Matrix, and IRC are all pretty comparable. It's good motivation for me to be connected to all of them so that I have access to as much of the community as possible. Each platform has some annoyances that I just have to deal with. 19:05 MTDiscord Desour: no, I don't have to do any of those things, same as I don't have to participate on IRC or Matrix, or be part of the community, or contribute to a project. 19:06 Desour @warr1024: you said, the network effect is unavoidable. my message was referring to that 19:06 jonadab I tried to use Discord via Bitlbee, but it proved to be prohibitively difficult to keep working consistently, and eventually I just gave up. 19:07 jonadab Some channels are bridged (including most of the NetHack ones for example, and this one), which is fine I guess. 19:07 jonadab There are some Discord-only communities that I can't really participate in without jumping through ridiculous hoops, and I just gave up on them. 19:07 MTDiscord Desour: ah, okay, that makes sense. It's just scope neglect then. 19:08 Krock @greenxenith The guy in that meme 19:09 MTDiscord Indeed, he is really silly 19:09 ireallyhateirc isn't Discord just a centralized service anyway? You'd still be using that service, even if you change the client. And the desktop app is most likely crap on electron, so you can use a web browser for it anyway... 19:11 ireallyhateirc not a fan of proprietary software, but whatever works for promoting minetest I guess 19:11 Desour @warr1024: idk how scope neglect comes to play here 19:13 jonadab ireallyhateirc: I don't mind proprietary software nearly as much, if the protocols and data formats are open, or even de-facto open. For example, I have no particular objection to MS Word. I mean, I don't want to use recent versions of it, because the ribbon UI is terrible, but I don't mind exchanging documents with people who use it. 19:15 ireallyhateirc compatibility and open protocols are inherently incompatible with the business model of proprietary software monopolists such as Microsoft, and MS Word is a bad example, because MS Office never imports LibreOffice documents properly and vice versa. Though I believe we're too much off topic and should probably stop discussing this. I have to rework my minetest mod now :) 19:15 MTDiscord Personally, I have a distaste for proprietary software, but I won't take it to extremes either. It's sort of like candy: it seems sweet at first, but gets sickening pretty quickly, and it can have some pretty bad long-term health effects. It's something you should use sparingly. 19:16 Desour jonadab: microsoft word has made their document format specification deliberately hard to implement, I've heard 19:17 Desour stop hating on candy! 19:17 jonadab Perhaps a better example, is PKZip, which was proprietary software, but the data format spec was published so it could be implemented, and now basically everyone uses the format. 19:18 MTDiscord How bad a proprietary system or protocol ends up being often depends a lot on how much pressure they get from free alternatives. Office documents are bad because they CAN be. Discord is less bad because alternatives like IRC and Matrix, and even other proprietary alternatives like Slack, make being bad risky. 19:18 ireallyhateirc jonadab, even a broken clock will show you the right hour twice a day. Most proprietary programs will explicitly forbid you to do any reverse engineering. 19:19 jonadab ireallyhateirc: If they keep the data formats and/or protocols proprietary, then I object to that. 19:20 MTDiscord Funny to see people still talking like if all of the Microsoft would be proprietary. 19:22 ireallyhateirc ah yes, they love open sores now. Also the candy was poisoned, but you agreed to license terms so that's fine. 19:23 MTDiscord the purpose of poisoned candy is just to accelerate your weight loss, obviously 19:25 MTDiscord Poisoning candy is, on some level, redundant. 19:30 ireallyhateirc Ok, an actual minetest question now: While using heightmap I noticed it would sometimes have values such as -31000 or similar for chunks that are obviously ground level. What does that mean? 19:45 Krock ireallyhateirc: I'd assume that's when no ground exists for the current chunk. You might be fastest to log the coordinates where this happens, and then check the locations for similarities. 19:47 ireallyhateirc I guess so, just found it weird that it gives a number instead of nil, but that's probably a C++ artifact 19:50 MTDiscord poisoning anyone is, on some level, redundant 23:02 swift110-mobile hey all 23:03 swift110-mobile would be cool to have a 3d version of minetest 23:03 MTDiscord uh..... did you per chance mean 2d? else i dont follow 23:04 ireallyhateirc that's the most drunk thing I've heard here so far 23:05 ireallyhateirc 4d minetest with tesseract voxels 23:47 MTDiscord go play 4d miner 23:58 MTDiscord maybe they meant 3rd. We had an 0.4 and a 5.0 but no 3.0