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| 01:04 |
cheapie |
This is what happens if you build something without making sure your angle is a multiple of 90° first: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20240530_200230.png |
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Blockhead256 |
cheapie: I'm less concerned with the angle of the building |
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Blockhead256 |
and more with the fact that it looks like it's about to fall into a ravine |
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celeron55_ |
cheapie: such an easy mistake to make, just like pouring the concrete foundation on thin air |
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| 11:31 |
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| 11:35 |
shaft |
Some Indian Samej_Play has been selling Minetest 5.2 on the Windows Store for years. I reported it for violating the store policy. Nothing happened. Then I reported it for illegal content (said it applies to his other games too), gave them my email and explained that it's a scam. Success. They took it down. He's still selling SuperTuxKart and Xonotic though. Go report this pajeet. https://apps.microsoft.com/search/publisher?name=Sa |
| 11:35 |
shaft |
mej_Play&hl=en-us&gl=DE |
| 11:36 |
shaft |
https://apps.microsoft.com/search/publisher?name=Samej_Play&hl=en-us&gl=DE |
| 11:38 |
ireallyhateirc |
which point of the policy was he violating? |
| 11:38 |
rubenwardy |
oh nice. We've reported it in the past but our reports have been ignored |
| 11:38 |
ireallyhateirc |
GPL and LGPL don't make it illegal to sell copies, but you need to provide the source code to users |
| 11:38 |
rubenwardy |
the problem is using our name to do so |
| 11:39 |
shaft |
It's still a scam and thus illegal in many countries. |
| 11:39 |
shaft |
They said it violates their policy. And don't know which part. |
| 11:40 |
shaft |
* I don't |
| 11:40 |
ireallyhateirc |
I honestly don't know why Minetest is LGPL instead of GPL in the first place... |
| 11:44 |
shaft |
You're allowed to sell GPL software too. I don't see your point. |
| 11:45 |
rubenwardy |
GPL would prevent apps from using proprietary advert sdks |
| 11:45 |
rubenwardy |
which is probably a positive |
| 11:45 |
shaft |
You think the indian cares about that? |
| 11:45 |
rubenwardy |
and pretty much all advert sdks are proprietary |
| 11:46 |
shaft |
He's just looking to make quick an easy money and MS Store has virtually no quality control |
| 11:47 |
ireallyhateirc |
yeah though you can make a legally sound fork of minetest, put ads on top and enjoy |
| 11:48 |
ireallyhateirc |
with all the spyware in it which contradicts the point of free software |
| 11:48 |
shaft |
That would require effort though |
| 11:50 |
ireallyhateirc |
quickly replacing all minetest branding and not claiming to be official would maybe take only 1 extra day of work |
| 11:50 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> if he gives me 2 dollars I'll do it for him, but I'm gonna use dalle to generate the icons |
| 11:53 |
shaft |
Too much work. The only reason why MS Store allows the sale of free software is because some developers of free software choose to sell it to the retards there as a form of donation. Some Indie games do it with Steam too. |
| 11:54 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> speaking of, I need an icon, that is, the minetest logo, on the side of a pc tower |
| 11:55 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> talking like, Christopher, Walken |
| 11:56 |
ireallyhateirc |
shaft, exactly my plan once I make my game |
| 11:56 |
ireallyhateirc |
there will be the GNU/Linux version for free, and Windows version for money on Steam |
| 11:59 |
ireallyhateirc |
the game will be GPLv3 or AGPL even |
| 12:00 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Make it in typescript with tauri utilizing webgl so you can literally port it anywhere |
| 12:01 |
ireallyhateirc |
I'm writing it for Minetest in Lua, but I guess you're the person who transpiles TypeScript to lua |
| 12:01 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Yes |
| 12:02 |
shaft |
Javascript WebGL shit for Chrome and Firefox is less portable than SDL. |
| 12:02 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Hmmm, well which devices that you can game on don't run a web browser? |
| 12:03 |
shaft |
There's plenty of free operating systems that don't have a port of Chrome and Firefox (Both of them are huge) |
| 12:03 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Well they still support webgl |
| 12:03 |
ireallyhateirc |
web browsers were a mistake |
| 12:04 |
shaft |
No, they don't necessarily. |
| 12:04 |
ireallyhateirc |
it started with "let's make a small and portable standard that all operating systems can implement easily" |
| 12:04 |
shaft |
Or they don't support some other shit your game is using. |
| 12:05 |
ireallyhateirc |
and now it's "just port Chromium to your system lol" |
| 12:05 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Also, tauri isn't firefox or chrome, in fact it's wry using webkit |
| 12:05 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> It is teeny, tiny, little web browser |
| 12:06 |
shaft |
Still don't see the advantage of using slow WebGL when you can just use GL. Any operating system that has a browser advanced enough also has the other stuff |
| 12:07 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Because you write once, then you run anywhere, unless you're running links of course |
| 12:07 |
shaft |
Because that worked so well with Java. |
| 12:07 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Well you're talking to me through a web browser so I think it's working pretty well so far |
| 12:09 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> And if you're on FreeBSD, you can join us here with SrWither's DiscordBSD |
| 12:09 |
shaft |
No, I'm using IRC with a desktop client. I haven't played any browser games that weren't text adventures since the days of Adobe Flash ended. Even though we have more capabilities now, it feels like the popularity of browser games has faded |
| 12:10 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Yes, you are, but I'm not, and I'm still talking to ya |
| 12:11 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> You got vscode, which, is just a web browser |
| 12:11 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> You got blockbench, which is just a web browser |
| 12:11 |
shaft |
You could make the same argument for emacs which is a text editor. So why not make your game for text editors instead? |
| 12:11 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Does emacs support webgl? |
| 12:11 |
ireallyhateirc |
and then you end up needing several GB of RAM just for a text editor |
| 12:12 |
shaft |
You didn't get the point. |
| 12:12 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Oh I do, but it's not 2007 anymore and we have bottom of the barrel machines running 8gb of ram for like 50 bucks so this doesn't really fit the environment of computing anymore |
| 12:13 |
shaft |
Just make your program for an operating system. That's what they are there for. You can use an engine that supports many operating systems like Godot or Love2d. |
| 12:13 |
ireallyhateirc |
chromium needs at least 16GB of RAM to compile, I had to buy more so my machine doesn't get stuck on it lol |
| 12:13 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I do, the operating system, is the web browser, easy peasy |
| 12:14 |
shaft |
Are you using Windows? |
| 12:14 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> And if you're targeting android, the whole thing is a jvm so unless it's written in a jvm lang it's not actually targeting it |
| 12:14 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Nope |
| 12:14 |
shaft |
It's still going to be much faster on android |
| 12:15 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Oh of course, but it's a nightmare |
| 12:16 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> There's a reason you can now play minetest, in a web browser. You only got a chrome book? There you go |
| 12:17 |
shaft |
iirc some Chromebooks are literally trash once they stop getting updates from Google because it's hard to install another OS on them without soldering the piece of shit. |
| 12:18 |
ireallyhateirc |
some of them are librebootable, that's a thing |
| 12:18 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Of course, they're instant e-waste |
| 12:18 |
ireallyhateirc |
honestly I don't see why I should use webapps instead of more efficient stuff that was directly written for my OS |
| 12:18 |
ROllerozxa |
it's pretty easy to get regular Linux running on x86-based Chromebooks even with RW_LEGACY which doesn't require any hardware modifications (see chrultrabook) |
| 12:19 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Then writing web apps is not for you, I never said you had to I just said you should try it |
| 12:19 |
ROllerozxa |
ARM-based chromebooks you're basically shit out of luck though |
| 12:19 |
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| 12:20 |
shaft |
Yes ARM-Chromebooks. |
| 12:20 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> So you're an emacs user eh? |
| 12:20 |
shaft |
No |
| 12:20 |
ireallyhateirc |
I am |
| 12:20 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> AW man, I wanted you to try my config |
| 12:20 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> here, tell me if this thing still works https://github.com/jordan4ibanez/Vmacs |
| 12:21 |
ireallyhateirc |
emacs into VS code? |
| 12:21 |
ireallyhateirc |
why would you do that :D |
| 12:21 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Ye, a vscode style common lisp environment |
| 12:21 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Because, it's emacs, you can do whatever you want |
| 12:21 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Except pay your taxes |
| 12:22 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> But there's probably still a way to do that in emacs |
| 12:22 |
ireallyhateirc |
if you want VS code then I guess you can just get VS Codium without Microsoft's spyware |
| 12:23 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> It's not about that, it's emacs is elisp and supports sbcl better than vscode, that's it, or else I would use vscode |
| 12:23 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Unless, you'd like to become a web dev and help vscode support sbcl better |
| 12:24 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> https://tenor.com/view/dog-eyebrow-funny-eyebrow-raise-gif-13185653 |
| 12:25 |
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| 12:25 |
ireallyhateirc |
I did some web stuff in the past and wasn't really impressed. JS/TypeScript is unfortunately imo still better than Lua |
| 12:27 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> That's because the DOM is HORRIBLE unless you're using pure TS like in tauri |
| 12:27 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Now, you'll have to excuse me as I cry my way through getting this text box centered in html/css |
| 12:29 |
shaft |
>JS better than Lua |
| 12:29 |
shaft |
What are you doing on Minetest irc? |
| 12:29 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> He's probably writing a js vm in ts and compiling it into lua to run js in lua in minetest |
| 12:29 |
ireallyhateirc |
I "learned" Lua only to make cool minetest mods |
| 12:30 |
shaft |
There's nothing to learn in Lua if you know any other scripting language |
| 12:31 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> How to use one variable for literally everything |
| 12:31 |
shaft |
Same in all other scripting languages including typescript |
| 12:31 |
ireallyhateirc |
one thing I particularly dislike is that if you have a table local abc = {["a"] = 1, ["b"] = 2, ["c"] = 3} |
| 12:32 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Nope, you have to use any type, and that is truly horrible |
| 12:32 |
ireallyhateirc |
and try printing its length using #abc then you get 0 |
| 12:32 |
ireallyhateirc |
instead of an error |
| 12:32 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> That's because that's a hashmap, not an array |
| 12:32 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> It has no length, only members |
| 12:33 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Unless you duct tape on an array, into your hashmap |
| 12:33 |
shaft |
A table is simply a hashtable and an array in one structure # measures the length of the array and only if it's a continuous table iirc. |
| 12:34 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> lua local abc = {[3] = "oops", ["a"] = 1, [1] = 1,["b"] = 2, ["c"] = 3, [2] = 2} print(#abc) this prints 3 |
| 12:35 |
ireallyhateirc |
if it has no length then it shouldn't print 0, that's what I think. |
| 12:35 |
ireallyhateirc |
also Lua's standard lib doesn't have stuff you're most likely to use |
| 12:35 |
shaft |
The amount of elements in there starting from 0 or 1 until it hits nil is 0. |
| 12:35 |
shaft |
There's nothing hard about it. |
| 12:36 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Yes, but, this is a hashmap, and an array |
| 12:36 |
shaft |
And # is for the array part |
| 12:37 |
ireallyhateirc |
not the worst stuff out there but I'd use Lisp/Scheme instead |
| 12:38 |
shaft |
Hmm, seems # always starts with [1] and it doesn't care about 0 indexed tables |
| 12:38 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> lua local abc = {[3] = "oops", ["d"] = 4, ["a"] = 1, [1] = 1,["b"] = 2, ["c"] = 3, [2] = 2} for key,value in pairs(abc) do print(key, value) end this will print out a different order every time |
| 12:38 |
ireallyhateirc |
ah yes, also arrays starting from 1 |
| 12:39 |
shaft |
Well, it's not as convenient for some purposes but it's the human standard. From a beginners perspective it's easier. |
| 12:39 |
ireallyhateirc |
I simply wrote my own table.better_length that uses a for loop and pairs to count elements of the discount table (hash whatever) |
| 12:40 |
ireallyhateirc |
starting from 1 wouldn't be a problem if not the fact that C/C++ starts with 0 |
| 12:40 |
shaft |
That's dumb and I don't see the purpose. Usually you don't count the hashtable, that's why you're using it. |
| 12:41 |
shaft |
But Lua doesn't interoperate with C directly. It's not a problem. It also allows you to index tables with 0 |
| 12:41 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> The great Lua war - 2024 - colorized |
| 12:41 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Lua maps pretty dang close to C |
| 12:42 |
ireallyhateirc |
it is a problem because minetest counts node positions from 0 |
| 12:42 |
shaft |
How? |
| 12:42 |
ireallyhateirc |
mapchunks start at 0,0,0 and end at 79,79,79 |
| 12:43 |
ireallyhateirc |
to store that data in a table I need to add 1 to node positions |
| 12:43 |
ireallyhateirc |
to avoid having "0" in the array |
| 12:44 |
shaft |
You can start your table with index 0 just do t[0] = "data" and the table will start with 0 |
| 12:44 |
ireallyhateirc |
yeah I guess, but then I can't trust #tab later |
| 12:44 |
shaft |
But you already know how large it is, so you don't need to count it. 79,79,79 |
| 12:45 |
ireallyhateirc |
I sometimes print stuff for debugging |
| 12:45 |
shaft |
Just dump() |
| 12:45 |
ireallyhateirc |
and then get funny "there's 0 elements" moments |
| 12:46 |
shaft |
print(dump(table)) |
| 12:46 |
ireallyhateirc |
I can do that, sure, but it will vomit all elements into the console and for 512K elements it freezes the game |
| 12:47 |
ireallyhateirc |
but then at least I know something's there rather than "0" |
| 12:47 |
shaft |
We already told you, # doesn't mean there's nothing in the table either way. |
| 12:48 |
ireallyhateirc |
well, that's probably just my dumb and uneducated opinion, I'm not a real dev. |
| 12:48 |
ireallyhateirc |
just found all that confusing |
| 12:49 |
shaft |
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/956719/number-of-elements-in-a-javascript-object |
| 12:50 |
shaft |
Javascript has no way to get the amount of elements in an object (their hashtable). So your entire argument in favour of JS is nil and void! |
| 12:50 |
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| 12:50 |
ireallyhateirc |
lol, it's been some time since I used JS |
| 12:50 |
ireallyhateirc |
probably my memory erased the unpleasant moments |
| 12:51 |
shaft |
> JS/TypeScript is unfortunately imo still better than Lua |
| 12:51 |
shaft |
You said that |
| 12:51 |
ireallyhateirc |
well then, I was wrong |
| 12:53 |
ireallyhateirc |
looks like I should enjoy Lua a little more then |
| 13:05 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> But literally the second answer is Object.keys(obj).length |
| 13:07 |
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| 13:09 |
shaft |
function(t)local i=0 for j,_ in pairs(t) do i=i+1 return i end() and works without creating an array. |
| 13:11 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Yeah but that 0.002 seconds you saved looks worse |
| 13:12 |
shaft |
You write it once and put it in a local. |
| 13:12 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> jordan4ibanez: modlib.table.count(t) |
| 13:12 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I think shaft should be on the ecmascript counsel |
| 13:13 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> you could implement that as modlib.iterator.count(pairs(t)) |
| 13:13 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Nu |
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cheapie |
This might be my favorite button to press at the moment: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/2024-05-31%2018-41-14.webm |
