Time Nick Message 01:04 cheapie This is what happens if you build something without making sure your angle is a multiple of 90° first: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20240530_200230.png 07:08 Blockhead256 cheapie: I'm less concerned with the angle of the building 07:08 Blockhead256 and more with the fact that it looks like it's about to fall into a ravine 09:12 celeron55_ cheapie: such an easy mistake to make, just like pouring the concrete foundation on thin air 11:35 shaft Some Indian Samej_Play has been selling Minetest 5.2 on the Windows Store for years. I reported it for violating the store policy. Nothing happened. Then I reported it for illegal content (said it applies to his other games too), gave them my email and explained that it's a scam. Success. They took it down. He's still selling SuperTuxKart and Xonotic though. Go report this pajeet. https://apps.microsoft.com/search/publisher?name=Sa 11:35 shaft mej_Play&hl=en-us&gl=DE 11:36 shaft https://apps.microsoft.com/search/publisher?name=Samej_Play&hl=en-us&gl=DE 11:38 ireallyhateirc which point of the policy was he violating? 11:38 rubenwardy oh nice. We've reported it in the past but our reports have been ignored 11:38 ireallyhateirc GPL and LGPL don't make it illegal to sell copies, but you need to provide the source code to users 11:38 rubenwardy the problem is using our name to do so 11:39 shaft It's still a scam and thus illegal in many countries. 11:39 shaft They said it violates their policy. And don't know which part. 11:40 shaft * I don't 11:40 ireallyhateirc I honestly don't know why Minetest is LGPL instead of GPL in the first place... 11:44 shaft You're allowed to sell GPL software too. I don't see your point. 11:45 rubenwardy GPL would prevent apps from using proprietary advert sdks 11:45 rubenwardy which is probably a positive 11:45 shaft You think the indian cares about that? 11:45 rubenwardy and pretty much all advert sdks are proprietary 11:46 shaft He's just looking to make quick an easy money and MS Store has virtually no quality control 11:47 ireallyhateirc yeah though you can make a legally sound fork of minetest, put ads on top and enjoy 11:48 ireallyhateirc with all the spyware in it which contradicts the point of free software 11:48 shaft That would require effort though 11:50 ireallyhateirc quickly replacing all minetest branding and not claiming to be official would maybe take only 1 extra day of work 11:50 MTDiscord if he gives me 2 dollars I'll do it for him, but I'm gonna use dalle to generate the icons 11:53 shaft Too much work. The only reason why MS Store allows the sale of free software is because some developers of free software choose to sell it to the retards there as a form of donation. Some Indie games do it with Steam too. 11:54 MTDiscord speaking of, I need an icon, that is, the minetest logo, on the side of a pc tower 11:55 MTDiscord talking like, Christopher, Walken 11:56 ireallyhateirc shaft, exactly my plan once I make my game 11:56 ireallyhateirc there will be the GNU/Linux version for free, and Windows version for money on Steam 11:59 ireallyhateirc the game will be GPLv3 or AGPL even 12:00 MTDiscord Make it in typescript with tauri utilizing webgl so you can literally port it anywhere 12:01 ireallyhateirc I'm writing it for Minetest in Lua, but I guess you're the person who transpiles TypeScript to lua 12:01 MTDiscord Yes 12:02 shaft Javascript WebGL shit for Chrome and Firefox is less portable than SDL. 12:02 MTDiscord Hmmm, well which devices that you can game on don't run a web browser? 12:03 shaft There's plenty of free operating systems that don't have a port of Chrome and Firefox (Both of them are huge) 12:03 MTDiscord Well they still support webgl 12:03 ireallyhateirc web browsers were a mistake 12:04 shaft No, they don't necessarily. 12:04 ireallyhateirc it started with "let's make a small and portable standard that all operating systems can implement easily" 12:04 shaft Or they don't support some other shit your game is using. 12:05 ireallyhateirc and now it's "just port Chromium to your system lol" 12:05 MTDiscord Also, tauri isn't firefox or chrome, in fact it's wry using webkit 12:05 MTDiscord It is teeny, tiny, little web browser 12:06 shaft Still don't see the advantage of using slow WebGL when you can just use GL. Any operating system that has a browser advanced enough also has the other stuff 12:07 MTDiscord Because you write once, then you run anywhere, unless you're running links of course 12:07 shaft Because that worked so well with Java. 12:07 MTDiscord Well you're talking to me through a web browser so I think it's working pretty well so far 12:09 MTDiscord And if you're on FreeBSD, you can join us here with SrWither's DiscordBSD 12:09 shaft No, I'm using IRC with a desktop client. I haven't played any browser games that weren't text adventures since the days of Adobe Flash ended. Even though we have more capabilities now, it feels like the popularity of browser games has faded 12:10 MTDiscord Yes, you are, but I'm not, and I'm still talking to ya 12:11 MTDiscord You got vscode, which, is just a web browser 12:11 MTDiscord You got blockbench, which is just a web browser 12:11 shaft You could make the same argument for emacs which is a text editor. So why not make your game for text editors instead? 12:11 MTDiscord Does emacs support webgl? 12:11 ireallyhateirc and then you end up needing several GB of RAM just for a text editor 12:12 shaft You didn't get the point. 12:12 MTDiscord Oh I do, but it's not 2007 anymore and we have bottom of the barrel machines running 8gb of ram for like 50 bucks so this doesn't really fit the environment of computing anymore 12:13 shaft Just make your program for an operating system. That's what they are there for. You can use an engine that supports many operating systems like Godot or Love2d. 12:13 ireallyhateirc chromium needs at least 16GB of RAM to compile, I had to buy more so my machine doesn't get stuck on it lol 12:13 MTDiscord I do, the operating system, is the web browser, easy peasy 12:14 shaft Are you using Windows? 12:14 MTDiscord And if you're targeting android, the whole thing is a jvm so unless it's written in a jvm lang it's not actually targeting it 12:14 MTDiscord Nope 12:14 shaft It's still going to be much faster on android 12:15 MTDiscord Oh of course, but it's a nightmare 12:16 MTDiscord There's a reason you can now play minetest, in a web browser. You only got a chrome book? There you go 12:17 shaft iirc some Chromebooks are literally trash once they stop getting updates from Google because it's hard to install another OS on them without soldering the piece of shit. 12:18 ireallyhateirc some of them are librebootable, that's a thing 12:18 MTDiscord Of course, they're instant e-waste 12:18 ireallyhateirc honestly I don't see why I should use webapps instead of more efficient stuff that was directly written for my OS 12:18 ROllerozxa it's pretty easy to get regular Linux running on x86-based Chromebooks even with RW_LEGACY which doesn't require any hardware modifications (see chrultrabook) 12:19 MTDiscord Then writing web apps is not for you, I never said you had to I just said you should try it 12:19 ROllerozxa ARM-based chromebooks you're basically shit out of luck though 12:20 shaft Yes ARM-Chromebooks. 12:20 MTDiscord So you're an emacs user eh? 12:20 shaft No 12:20 ireallyhateirc I am 12:20 MTDiscord AW man, I wanted you to try my config 12:20 MTDiscord here, tell me if this thing still works https://github.com/jordan4ibanez/Vmacs 12:21 ireallyhateirc emacs into VS code? 12:21 ireallyhateirc why would you do that :D 12:21 MTDiscord Ye, a vscode style common lisp environment 12:21 MTDiscord Because, it's emacs, you can do whatever you want 12:21 MTDiscord Except pay your taxes 12:22 MTDiscord But there's probably still a way to do that in emacs 12:22 ireallyhateirc if you want VS code then I guess you can just get VS Codium without Microsoft's spyware 12:23 MTDiscord It's not about that, it's emacs is elisp and supports sbcl better than vscode, that's it, or else I would use vscode 12:23 MTDiscord Unless, you'd like to become a web dev and help vscode support sbcl better 12:24 MTDiscord https://tenor.com/view/dog-eyebrow-funny-eyebrow-raise-gif-13185653 12:25 ireallyhateirc I did some web stuff in the past and wasn't really impressed. JS/TypeScript is unfortunately imo still better than Lua 12:27 MTDiscord That's because the DOM is HORRIBLE unless you're using pure TS like in tauri 12:27 MTDiscord Now, you'll have to excuse me as I cry my way through getting this text box centered in html/css 12:29 shaft >JS better than Lua 12:29 shaft What are you doing on Minetest irc? 12:29 MTDiscord He's probably writing a js vm in ts and compiling it into lua to run js in lua in minetest 12:29 ireallyhateirc I "learned" Lua only to make cool minetest mods 12:30 shaft There's nothing to learn in Lua if you know any other scripting language 12:31 MTDiscord How to use one variable for literally everything 12:31 shaft Same in all other scripting languages including typescript 12:31 ireallyhateirc one thing I particularly dislike is that if you have a table local abc = {["a"] = 1, ["b"] = 2, ["c"] = 3} 12:32 MTDiscord Nope, you have to use any type, and that is truly horrible 12:32 ireallyhateirc and try printing its length using #abc then you get 0 12:32 ireallyhateirc instead of an error 12:32 MTDiscord That's because that's a hashmap, not an array 12:32 MTDiscord It has no length, only members 12:33 MTDiscord Unless you duct tape on an array, into your hashmap 12:33 shaft A table is simply a hashtable and an array in one structure # measures the length of the array and only if it's a continuous table iirc. 12:34 MTDiscord lua local abc = {[3] = "oops", ["a"] = 1, [1] = 1,["b"] = 2, ["c"] = 3, [2] = 2} print(#abc) this prints 3 12:35 ireallyhateirc if it has no length then it shouldn't print 0, that's what I think. 12:35 ireallyhateirc also Lua's standard lib doesn't have stuff you're most likely to use 12:35 shaft The amount of elements in there starting from 0 or 1 until it hits nil is 0. 12:35 shaft There's nothing hard about it. 12:36 MTDiscord Yes, but, this is a hashmap, and an array 12:36 shaft And # is for the array part 12:37 ireallyhateirc not the worst stuff out there but I'd use Lisp/Scheme instead 12:38 shaft Hmm, seems # always starts with [1] and it doesn't care about 0 indexed tables 12:38 MTDiscord lua local abc = {[3] = "oops", ["d"] = 4, ["a"] = 1, [1] = 1,["b"] = 2, ["c"] = 3, [2] = 2} for key,value in pairs(abc) do print(key, value) end this will print out a different order every time 12:38 ireallyhateirc ah yes, also arrays starting from 1 12:39 shaft Well, it's not as convenient for some purposes but it's the human standard. From a beginners perspective it's easier. 12:39 ireallyhateirc I simply wrote my own table.better_length that uses a for loop and pairs to count elements of the discount table (hash whatever) 12:40 ireallyhateirc starting from 1 wouldn't be a problem if not the fact that C/C++ starts with 0 12:40 shaft That's dumb and I don't see the purpose. Usually you don't count the hashtable, that's why you're using it. 12:41 shaft But Lua doesn't interoperate with C directly. It's not a problem. It also allows you to index tables with 0 12:41 MTDiscord The great Lua war - 2024 - colorized 12:41 MTDiscord Lua maps pretty dang close to C 12:42 ireallyhateirc it is a problem because minetest counts node positions from 0 12:42 shaft How? 12:42 ireallyhateirc mapchunks start at 0,0,0 and end at 79,79,79 12:43 ireallyhateirc to store that data in a table I need to add 1 to node positions 12:43 ireallyhateirc to avoid having "0" in the array 12:44 shaft You can start your table with index 0 just do t[0] = "data" and the table will start with 0 12:44 ireallyhateirc yeah I guess, but then I can't trust #tab later 12:44 shaft But you already know how large it is, so you don't need to count it. 79,79,79 12:45 ireallyhateirc I sometimes print stuff for debugging 12:45 shaft Just dump() 12:45 ireallyhateirc and then get funny "there's 0 elements" moments 12:46 shaft print(dump(table)) 12:46 ireallyhateirc I can do that, sure, but it will vomit all elements into the console and for 512K elements it freezes the game 12:47 ireallyhateirc but then at least I know something's there rather than "0" 12:47 shaft We already told you, # doesn't mean there's nothing in the table either way. 12:48 ireallyhateirc well, that's probably just my dumb and uneducated opinion, I'm not a real dev. 12:48 ireallyhateirc just found all that confusing 12:49 shaft https://stackoverflow.com/questions/956719/number-of-elements-in-a-javascript-object 12:50 shaft Javascript has no way to get the amount of elements in an object (their hashtable). So your entire argument in favour of JS is nil and void! 12:50 ireallyhateirc lol, it's been some time since I used JS 12:50 ireallyhateirc probably my memory erased the unpleasant moments 12:51 shaft > JS/TypeScript is unfortunately imo still better than Lua 12:51 shaft You said that 12:51 ireallyhateirc well then, I was wrong 12:53 ireallyhateirc looks like I should enjoy Lua a little more then 13:05 MTDiscord But literally the second answer is Object.keys(obj).length 13:09 shaft function(t)local i=0 for j,_ in pairs(t) do i=i+1 return i end() and works without creating an array. 13:11 MTDiscord Yeah but that 0.002 seconds you saved looks worse 13:12 shaft You write it once and put it in a local. 13:12 MTDiscord jordan4ibanez: modlib.table.count(t) 13:12 MTDiscord I think shaft should be on the ecmascript counsel 13:13 MTDiscord you could implement that as modlib.iterator.count(pairs(t)) 13:13 MTDiscord Nu 23:49 cheapie This might be my favorite button to press at the moment: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/2024-05-31%2018-41-14.webm