| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:09 |
Dacmot |
After all that, the bug is still there with 5.6.1 so I don't think it related to MT... thanks for your help wsor! |
| 00:11 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> np, low key curious what mod |
| 00:11 |
Dacmot |
3d_armor |
| 00:12 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> fun, good luck |
| 00:13 |
Dacmot |
Getting "Armor not initialized!" when loading a new game in whynot. Joining again and it's gone. |
| 00:15 |
erle |
Dacmot for some reason both submodules and subtrees are strongly opposed by coredevs. i have never seen a good explanation why and do actually assume that the people opposing both have just not had problems that submodules or subtrees would solve. |
| 00:16 |
erle |
meanwhile, the people who do have these problems are not coredevs |
| 00:16 |
|
witsie joined #minetest |
| 00:16 |
Dacmot |
Hehe. Thanks for the info erle |
| 00:16 |
erle |
this is a simple explanation that requires no malice or incompetence (just not caring too much about casual contributors) |
| 00:16 |
erle |
Dacmot well i urge you to ask yourself in #minetest-dev |
| 00:17 |
erle |
after all i might be mistaken |
| 00:17 |
erle |
but the question gets asked from time to time |
| 00:17 |
Dacmot |
Meh. I'm not looking to do MT development. Just wanted to build an old version to test something. A minor inconvenience is all. |
| 00:17 |
erle |
yes but it is the channel for engine dev |
| 00:18 |
erle |
Dacmot IIRC the current proposal for example to merge irrlichtmt into minetest proper is to copy it over or so? instead of doing a subtree merge (a merge strategy invented to nest repositories) |
| 00:18 |
erle |
as always, don't believe random ppl on the internet |
| 00:18 |
erle |
you can also download the chatlogs from #minetest-dev and grep for “submodule” |
| 00:18 |
Dacmot |
Haha. Ok, thanks! |
| 00:19 |
erle |
and when i say coredevs i mean coredevs as a group. if they can not *agree* on submodules it does not mean that every one is a submodule hater |
| 00:19 |
Dacmot |
I understand |
| 00:21 |
erle |
i am greping right now |
| 00:21 |
erle |
to figure out if the answer WAS actually provided |
| 00:23 |
erle |
i found a chat from nov 6 |
| 00:24 |
erle |
Dacmot start reading here about submodules from people i think https://irc.minetest.net/minetest-dev/2021-11-06#i_5894230 |
| 00:25 |
erle |
okay this is funny |
| 00:25 |
erle |
so from my logs i am the person who asks the most for irrlichtmt to be a submodule |
| 00:25 |
erle |
sfan5 is the person who most often is against submodules (project does not build if you don't use submodule and other reasons) |
| 00:25 |
erle |
but almost everyone else is either in favor of it or is like “i don't care, but people seem to hate submodules” |
| 00:25 |
erle |
hahaha |
| 00:26 |
erle |
i think that everyone hates submodules either was agreed upon outside the time that my chatlogs span or it is an illusion |
| 00:26 |
erle |
like, surely some people dislike them |
| 00:26 |
erle |
but they can not be as disliked as everyone who likes them is claiming, because not too many people openly argue against them? |
| 00:28 |
erle |
so regarding the “not seen a good explanation”: i have seen explanations but i think they are bad (i.e. the arguments seem not too convincing enough even if i agreed with them) |
| 00:28 |
erle |
but ultimately it does not matter |
| 00:28 |
erle |
as i said, if the group can't agree, it does not happen |
| 00:29 |
erle |
and i think for this reason i predict that subtree merge will not be the merge strategy used for irrlichtmt. instead, i guess it will be squash merged and git blame will then forever be wrong and git bisect will lead to a huge commit ^_^ |
| 00:30 |
erle |
hmmm, now i wonder if there is a modified subtree merge that could rewrite minetest history to always provide the correct irrlichtmt hmmmmmmmmm |
| 00:57 |
|
ShadowBot joined #minetest |
| 01:09 |
|
fluxionary joined #minetest |
| 01:11 |
|
TheSilentLink joined #minetest |
| 01:21 |
|
smk joined #minetest |
| 02:20 |
|
witsie joined #minetest |
| 02:47 |
|
greeter joined #minetest |
| 02:52 |
|
YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest |
| 02:53 |
|
fluxionary joined #minetest |
| 03:21 |
|
fluxionary joined #minetest |
| 03:29 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Does anyone know if there's a way (existing, already implemented, or at least already WIP) to get texturepack overrides.txt honored server-side? It seems like MT allows you to unpack a texture pack into a certain place to serve as a "server-side texture pack" and override all the texture images, but it doesn't honor the overrides.txt (not sent to client and/or not parsed). |
| 04:00 |
|
MTDiscord joined #minetest |
| 04:11 |
|
gxt joined #minetest |
| 04:36 |
|
Trifton joined #minetest |
| 04:38 |
|
Zambyte joined #minetest |
| 05:54 |
|
TomTom_ joined #minetest |
| 06:07 |
|
Warr1024 joined #minetest |
| 06:09 |
|
appguru joined #minetest |
| 06:23 |
|
sys4 joined #minetest |
| 06:24 |
|
appguru joined #minetest |
| 06:26 |
|
YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest |
| 06:27 |
|
appguru joined #minetest |
| 06:33 |
|
Warr1024 joined #minetest |
| 06:52 |
|
calcul0n joined #minetest |
| 07:01 |
|
lemonzest joined #minetest |
| 07:32 |
|
Warr1024 joined #minetest |
| 07:50 |
|
Warr1024 joined #minetest |
| 08:16 |
|
appguru joined #minetest |
| 08:26 |
|
s20_ joined #minetest |
| 08:34 |
rubenwardy |
Warr1024: you can either convert the texture pack into a mod or patch the engine |
| 08:35 |
erle |
well the first thing would be to open an issue right |
| 08:35 |
erle |
i was not aware of this |
| 09:10 |
|
s20 joined #minetest |
| 09:21 |
|
imi joined #minetest |
| 09:31 |
|
calcul0n joined #minetest |
| 10:04 |
|
dibesfer joined #minetest |
| 10:26 |
|
Sobinec joined #minetest |
| 10:36 |
|
Sobinec joined #minetest |
| 10:37 |
|
dibesfer joined #minetest |
| 11:58 |
|
appguru joined #minetest |
| 12:56 |
|
sys4_ joined #minetest |
| 13:17 |
|
appguru joined #minetest |
| 13:22 |
|
nm0i joined #minetest |
| 13:28 |
|
appguru joined #minetest |
| 14:27 |
|
s20 joined #minetest |
| 14:45 |
|
definitelya joined #minetest |
| 15:06 |
|
Thelie joined #minetest |
| 15:27 |
|
Sobinec joined #minetest |
| 15:41 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #minetest |
| 15:50 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #minetest |
| 15:52 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #minetest |
| 15:58 |
|
Bombo joined #minetest |
| 15:58 |
|
Bombo joined #minetest |
| 16:02 |
|
Thelie joined #minetest |
| 16:37 |
|
s20 joined #minetest |
| 16:45 |
|
jaca122 joined #minetest |
| 16:53 |
|
grorp joined #minetest |
| 17:04 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> I actually tried doing it for rpg16 I think it worked? https://github.com/Lemente/rpg16_mod/blob/main/init.lua |
| 17:08 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> since it is parsing the override.txt file I asume it could work with any texturepack |
| 17:12 |
|
Talkless joined #minetest |
| 17:32 |
erle |
lemente you planning to generalize it? |
| 17:35 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> I forgot I made it, so ... |
| 17:38 |
|
Alnotz joined #minetest |
| 17:50 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> I guess I could try dropping it into other texturepacks, see if it works, and provide it on contentDB with a How To. Was it what you meant by "generalize it"? |
| 17:54 |
|
qqq joined #minetest |
| 18:02 |
erle |
lemente you could make a mod that does this thing for all server-side texture packs? |
| 18:02 |
erle |
lemente yes i meant that |
| 18:11 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> I guess that would be possible, you wouldn't even need all the textures in the mod since the texturepack would already provide them (contrary to my mod which purpose was to completely replace the TP). I imagine the mod would need to be trusted though, and to know the TP folder. Is that possible? |
| 18:13 |
|
Trifton joined #minetest |
| 18:17 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #minetest |
| 18:22 |
erle |
not sure |
| 18:22 |
erle |
elment then again you could load after all other mods |
| 18:22 |
erle |
and just STEAL the node textures |
| 18:35 |
|
Trifton joined #minetest |
| 18:42 |
|
sparky4 joined #minetest |
| 19:20 |
erle |
new funny idea: i may be able to make a TGA image that when a user calls file(1) on it outputs its own representation to the terminal in ASCII art |
| 19:21 |
muurkha |
that would be fantastic. did you find an arbitrary execution hole in file(1)? |
| 19:22 |
erle |
no, i think it just prints arbitrary strings from the TGA file |
| 19:22 |
erle |
if it prints newlines, i could do it |
| 19:23 |
erle |
muurkha i ran file(1) on files in this repository https://github.com/lunapaint/tga-test-suite/ |
| 19:27 |
erle |
ok newline does not work |
| 19:30 |
erle |
; file tombexcavator/rgb15.tga |
| 19:30 |
erle |
tombexcavator/rgb15.tga: Targa image data - RGB 199 x 199 x 15 - HELLO\011WORLD! 0.0 |
| 19:34 |
muurkha |
you could format to 80 columns |
| 19:35 |
erle |
yes but |
| 19:35 |
erle |
first i read where the magic happens |
| 19:36 |
erle |
i have to understand /usr/lib/file/magic.mgc it seems |
| 19:36 |
erle |
why oh why is this a binary fail? :( |
| 19:36 |
erle |
file lol |
| 19:38 |
muurkha |
they started compiling it to make file faster |
| 19:39 |
muurkha |
it's built from textual sources |
| 19:40 |
muurkha |
file-5.38/magic/Magdir/images |
| 19:41 |
muurkha |
# originally from jef helios.ee.lbl.gov (Jef Poskanzer), |
| 19:41 |
erle |
> # at 1, byte CoMapType must be 1 if ImgType is 1 or 9, 0 otherwise |
| 19:41 |
erle |
hmmmmm |
| 19:41 |
erle |
i wonder i wonder |
| 19:42 |
erle |
this is horrible |
| 19:42 |
erle |
but also a funny source for parser differentials |
| 19:43 |
erle |
> # Compressed color-mapped data, using Huffman, Delta, and RLE. 4-pass quadtree- type process |
| 19:43 |
erle |
what |
| 19:43 |
erle |
i'm not doing this (and minetest is not doing it either) |
| 19:44 |
erle |
one comment is literally “gimp can create big pictures!” |
| 19:44 |
erle |
> # image height. 0 interpreted as 65536 |
| 19:44 |
erle |
thanks libmagic |
| 19:46 |
erle |
yeah so libmagic reads the author name and a comment |
| 19:46 |
erle |
> PNG [Portable Network Graphics, or "PNG's Not GIF"] images |
| 19:46 |
erle |
hahahaha |
| 19:47 |
erle |
let's see |
| 19:48 |
erle |
oh it has only an IHDR parser, lame |
| 20:06 |
|
sys4 joined #minetest |
| 20:35 |
|
sparky4 joined #minetest |
| 21:18 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> @erle "you could load after all other mods" there are two issues with this: - I believe I would get the texture from the mod, not the texture pack (the texturepack loads after all mods) - the override.txt can add completely new textures to a node (like a different top and bottom) that's why I needed to make a mod from the override.txt in the first place, so another mod (texture generator by LMD) would also modify the textures in |
| 21:18 |
MTDiscord |
override.txt now that I think of it, maybe that mod should have been handling it in the first place |
| 21:19 |
erle |
oh i see |
| 21:21 |
|
lemonzest joined #minetest |
| 21:22 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> I thought it was last loaded mod whose textures won. |
| 21:22 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> So you could put the textures either in the mod, or in the server texture pack space, either should work |
| 21:27 |
MTDiscord |
<lemente> yes, but the TP will supersede every mod afaik |
| 21:28 |
|
gxt joined #minetest |
| 21:29 |
|
Thelie1 joined #minetest |
| 21:49 |
MinetestBot |
[git] jiaowobaba02 -> minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Chinese (Simplified)) d62abbc https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/d62abbc9381a59151bda6e33407855610abc71ea (2023-10-20T20:54:04Z) |
| 21:49 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Gaemy34 -> minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Esperanto) 17e0ec2 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/17e0ec27ebd43f0177f79e3e77e918a653092f64 (2023-10-20T20:54:04Z) |
| 21:49 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Uwuewsky -> minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Russian) 77f2c94 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/77f2c94395f19781570a94a45d0ec2112cb00d74 (2023-10-20T20:54:04Z) |
| 21:50 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Linerly -> minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Indonesian) 28e06f7 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/28e06f7d9cc0e79ab06dc3109aa448049196bf3e (2023-10-20T20:54:04Z) |
| 21:50 |
MinetestBot |
[git] (16 newer commits not shown) |
| 21:57 |
|
cation joined #minetest |
| 22:06 |
|
dibesfer joined #minetest |
| 22:09 |
|
dibesfer joined #minetest |
| 22:10 |
|
dibesfer joined #minetest |
| 22:27 |
erle |
I HAVE BEEN VISITED BY THE GHOST OF THE EXTREMELY 1990s UX |
| 22:27 |
erle |
(the new settings dialog) |
| 22:28 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> LOL |
| 22:29 |
erle |
it's the mystery meat navigation |
| 22:29 |
erle |
technically, it's excellent |
| 22:30 |
erle |
i just think that some UX person should probably look at it |
| 22:31 |
erle |
(i am not one and could not do it better, i am just pointing out issues) |
| 22:31 |
erle |
ROllerozxa the funniest thing was that i told a friend i had difficulties finding the settings dialog |
| 22:31 |
erle |
and she was like “yeah, i KNOW it changed and i still have difficulties finding it sometimes” |
| 22:31 |
erle |
(because it is unlabeled now) |
| 22:32 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Settings UX hasn't changed for me, it's still just vi ~/.minetest/minetest.conf, same as it aways has been... |
| 22:32 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> the new settings button is a bit small, if anything... |
| 22:32 |
erle |
ROllerozxa it is small and unlabeled, so it is both a smaller click target and harder to find |
| 22:32 |
erle |
and also i have no idea what the icon is supposed to represent |
| 22:33 |
erle |
it can't be gears, they are too smooth |
| 22:33 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Ain't gonna say that I dislike the new settings dialog per se, I suppose it's more just that the settings I find myself needing to change stopped being the ones those things ever helped with a while ago... |
| 22:33 |
|
panwolfram joined #minetest |
| 22:33 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> I thought the whole "settings button" thing was just supposed to be a stopgap, and that the rest of the main menu needed to be changed at some point anyway. |
| 22:34 |
erle |
yeah but why make it *worse* than before? i mean you can easily have a label AND the icon there in the corner |
| 22:34 |
erle |
the space is there |
| 22:34 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> nothing's as permanent as a temporary stopgap measure |
| 22:34 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> erle: do you think a regular button with a text label would work better for the settings dialog? |
| 22:34 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Well, the eggs have been broken, I guess ... now I just hope the omelettes arrive someday... |
| 22:35 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> hammer and/or screwdriver might make another "settings" icon alternative, which might hold up better under scaling ... worth experimenting with, I guess. |
| 22:35 |
erle |
ROllerozxa i personally think the styles ”text besides icon” or “icon above text” are the best ones, because they provide both an icon and a label. and they give the biggest click target. |
| 22:35 |
erle |
Warr1024 it's not about the icon |
| 22:36 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Heh, yeah, that button looks less stopgappy than it did before, but it's a bit TOO unobtrusive. I feel like I need to be obtrused a bit more about where I can change my settings. |
| 22:37 |
erle |
GNOME had this hilarious UX study where they found out that when they switched away from menu bars to “burger menus” (the three horizontal bars that scream “the person who made this did not ask a UX person for input”) … people did not find stuff anymore. |
| 22:37 |
erle |
so they were like “maybe if we change the icon of the button” |
| 22:37 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> ahh, GNOME's hamburger menu of doom |
| 22:37 |
erle |
yeah |
| 22:37 |
erle |
the reason why it is bad UX is because it invites people to no longer hierarchically order menu items |
| 22:38 |
erle |
just stuff everything into it |
| 22:38 |
erle |
though i think at some point apps started having 2 of them |
| 22:38 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> The correct way to make a hamburger menu is by using the actual hamburger emoji instead of just those lines, so that all the people who would be complaining about your bad UX are instead complaining that the cheese is under the meat instead of on top. |
| 22:38 |
erle |
this reminds me of the flash game that mcdonalds had years ago |
| 22:38 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> mmm hamburger |
| 22:38 |
erle |
where people managed to insert references to image files |
| 22:39 |
erle |
so they tried to make the ”McMyLittlePony” win |
| 22:39 |
erle |
and also they managed to have a burger with chicken stuff as the buns |
| 22:39 |
erle |
and the McArte (which was black and white and had the logo of the french-german TV station ARTE in the corner) |
| 22:39 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> why do they call it hamburger menus if they don't offer any hamburgers |
| 22:39 |
erle |
i don't know, why do they call it photoshop if i can't buy pictures? |
| 22:40 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> I've been to a few restaurants in my day and I've never seen one where you have to get the hamburger first to be able to access the menu. |
| 22:40 |
erle |
anyway, i only have made websites |
| 22:41 |
erle |
can someone of you test if they can bind a key the character that ISO_Level3_Shift + any other key produce in minetest? |
| 22:41 |
erle |
it's the modifier key that is above the left shift key |
| 22:42 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> That's Caps Lock on my keyboard. |
| 22:42 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> keyboard(s) I guess I should say |
| 22:42 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Does it matter which layout? |
| 22:43 |
erle |
Neo2 |
| 22:43 |
erle |
but in general, i think some refucktoring might have broken some modifier keys |
| 22:44 |
erle |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13899 see here for symptoms |
| 22:44 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Thankfully it seems that the apostrophe key that was broken in chat on OSX is now not broken. If they have to unrefucktor I hope they don't regress that. |
| 22:44 |
erle |
lol |
| 22:44 |
erle |
Warr1024 what is ISO_Level3_Shift on your keyboard anyway? |
| 22:45 |
erle |
i'll try any modifier keys and see if anyone of them is registered separately |
| 22:45 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> I'm on QWERTY USA keyboards, the only modifiers I know of are Shift, Ctrl, Alt, and Super, and Command and Option on Mac which are weird and I don't know how they work anyway... |
| 22:46 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> ISO_Level3_Shift really sounds like something I don't have the necessary security clearance for. |
| 22:46 |
erle |
well i can bind a key to ISO_Level3_Shift which should not be possible |
| 22:46 |
erle |
it would be like binding a key to command or option |
| 22:47 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> I've got Fn keys that are supposed to be normally unbindable, I think. |
| 22:47 |
erle |
yeah but i mean modifier keys in particular |
| 22:47 |
erle |
because i need to press a modifier key to input the + |
| 22:48 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> I've got 2 keyboards where + is shift =. In theory there's a numpad+ on full-width keyboards but I gotn't one of those in fronta me right now. |
| 22:48 |
erle |
the opengl 1.4 rendering seems still not broken. i think maybe it is because ppl are more occupied with breaking OGLES 2 for smartphones :P |
| 22:48 |
erle |
Warr1024 so can you input that + then in minetest or not? |
| 22:48 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> In my experience numpad + and shift= are treated as different things for "keybind" purposes; even though they input the same symbol, for purposes like games, usually I'm allowed to bind different functions. |
| 22:49 |
erle |
well for minetest hat is now the case |
| 22:49 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> I have no issues entering a + in chat. I have not tried using + as a keybinding separate from =, but since I'm able to bind shift for game control purposes, I expect that NOT to work. |
| 22:50 |
erle |
yeah, i can input in in chat too |
| 22:50 |
erle |
ROllerozxa i think the whole unbundling minetest_game thing has one problem. old versions of minetest game crash with new versions of minetest. |
| 22:51 |
erle |
because minetest changes API to be incompatible with older versions of itself |
| 23:06 |
|
dibesfer joined #minetest |
| 23:21 |
rubenwardy |
Unfortunately, formspecs don't provide a nice way to have an icon and a label in one button |
| 23:21 |
rubenwardy |
Closest is making a composite button |
| 23:23 |
erle |
rubenwardy so what is the icon supposed to be anyway? |
| 23:23 |
rubenwardy |
Cogs |
| 23:23 |
erle |
oh lol |
| 23:23 |
erle |
i see |
| 23:24 |
rubenwardy |
A single cog is the more standard icon |
| 23:24 |
erle |
well then for plain text it could always be U+2699 ⚙ |
| 23:37 |
erle |
rubenwardy so where is the old settings dialog now? gone? |
| 23:38 |
rubenwardy |
It's gone |
| 23:41 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> (reduced to atoms) |
