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MTDiscord |
<FatalError> if that can be attached to the player, and can track external objects, that could actually work perfect for my uses |
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MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/12902 |
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MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> I think it's ready to be merged. |
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| 11:52 |
Guest74 |
at what minetest version was texture masking added? |
| 11:52 |
Guest74 |
i notice that texture masking operations and not computed server side and it seems the clients are informed to make these masking operations |
| 11:53 |
Guest74 |
so i assume MultiCraft 1.0 client for example does not support texture masking and such 'dynamic ops |
| 11:54 |
Guest74 |
https://dev.minetest.net/OldChangelog |
| 11:54 |
Guest74 |
New texture modifiers: ^[mask (sfan5), ^[colorize (BlockMen) |
| 11:54 |
Guest74 |
0.4.10 → 0.4.11 |
| 11:55 |
Guest74 |
Brutal. 0.4.11 > 0.4.11 was released on December 24, 2014. |
| 12:04 |
Guest74 |
hm, maybe there is a way in LUA that I can save a texture to file as a PNG? this could help me a lot, but I think there is not a way I can do this |
| 12:07 |
sfan5 |
there's not |
| 12:07 |
sfan5 |
the server does not even include any code to read textures, sounds or meshes |
| 12:10 |
Guest74 |
oh my god I suppose it would be possible for me to write my own exporter right but in that case it would just be easier for me to write a program to do the masking in another language where i know what format everything is in memory |
| 12:23 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> Minetest can encode PNGs, but you can't decide them afaik |
| 12:23 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> *decode (on the server) |
| 12:24 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> Which is rather odd tbh, is there a reason for not including decoding? |
| 12:26 |
celeron55 |
decoding is way more complex than encoding because png has various modes and optional features that all need to be supported when decoding. when encoding, you can just implement one |
| 12:27 |
celeron55 |
for decoding, you need to use a library |
| 12:28 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> We don't use a library for encoding?! |
| 12:28 |
celeron55 |
that might happen sometime In The Future(tm) as it relates to some library stuff that may change but i'm not up to date with the plans |
| 12:28 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> The client decodes them anyways, can we not just copy what method that uses? |
| 12:28 |
celeron55 |
the server doesn't depend on the same libraries as the client |
| 12:29 |
celeron55 |
which is a good thing and a bad thing |
| 12:29 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> I'm aware - but using the same dependency for dealing with PNGs would've seemed obvious to me. …oh unless Irrlicht has it's own PNG decoder we use |
| 12:30 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> Makes sense now if that's the case |
| 12:33 |
celeron55 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/util/png.cpp |
| 12:34 |
celeron55 |
that's literally all you need to encode a png (of course with not the best efficiency depending on the image content) |
| 12:35 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> oh god, encode_png has its own PNG encoder implementation? I guess that makes sense since the server doesn't have an irrlicht dependency (and therefore, a libpng dependency) |
| 12:35 |
celeron55 |
the only library used is zlib which is the general purpose compression algorithm png uses after all its other features |
| 12:37 |
celeron55 |
(and which minetest uses anyway for its own compressed formats) |
| 12:48 |
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| 12:49 |
Guest74 |
enlightening celeron55 do you manage the tracker? if so, any idea why it likes to frequently double register servers |
| 12:50 |
Guest74 |
and also with minetest and multicraft operating two seperate server trackers, why is there no way to specify them both in the minetest.conf? There is no elegant way to submit to both trackers unless you construct a spoof to one of them, as far as I am aware |
| 12:51 |
Guest74 |
it's not a huge problem but it's disjointed |
| 12:51 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> sfan5 hosts the server list afaik |
| 12:51 |
celeron55 |
the server list is hosted by sfan5 and runs the code that's developed openly on github |
| 12:52 |
celeron55 |
well there's no way to do that because nobody has implemented it |
| 12:54 |
celeron55 |
it's not like all the features were there to begin with and then developers started removing them :D |
| 12:59 |
Guest74 |
just seems odd that this situation would even arise |
| 13:00 |
Guest74 |
such as why multicraft bother to run their own tracker when they also list servers from the minetest tracker |
| 13:00 |
Guest74 |
it just creates these oddities |
| 13:01 |
Guest74 |
when you can only submit to one tracker why would anyone submit to multicraft tracker when they can submit to minetest tracker that is displayed on all clients multicraft and minetest? |
| 13:01 |
celeron55 |
multicraft is probably fighting a war where they want to make it impossible for MT to ban their servers from being visible to their clients |
| 13:02 |
Guest74 |
oh right, why would sfan ban their servers? |
| 13:02 |
celeron55 |
for us in actuality, it's not so much a war but rather we just try to sort the server list to be relevant to players |
| 13:02 |
Guest74 |
sfan5: which repo contains your minetest server tracker? I can't seem to find it |
| 13:03 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> https://github.com/minetest/serverlist |
| 13:03 |
Guest74 |
Ah thank you I was looking on sfan5's github |
| 13:04 |
Guest74 |
why would a multicraft server be deemed not relevant? the server list has ~420 servers on it, most of them are probably not relevant |
| 13:04 |
Guest74 |
what makes a fair test case to rule between relevancy and non relevancy |
| 13:04 |
celeron55 |
well that's pretty difficult as you can imagine |
| 13:05 |
celeron55 |
but no matter how difficult it is, the servers have to be sorted somehow |
| 13:05 |
Guest74 |
do you know how many players out of the 294 currency connected to minetest servers are connected via mobile clients based on mulicraft or similar, to assume most of them are forks of multicraft. |
| 13:05 |
celeron55 |
in any case, multicraft's owner(s) don't really like MT so you can expect pretty much anything from them |
| 13:05 |
Guest74 |
What is the dispute between either side? |
| 13:07 |
Guest74 |
It seems odd to me that animosity would be created from what seems to be a protocol support dispute, and not just indifference. |
| 13:07 |
celeron55 |
well they've basically ripped MT off to earn money, without donating to MT to offset it |
| 13:07 |
Guest74 |
ah well that is the nature of releasing code as open source |
| 13:07 |
celeron55 |
and they're pulling MT's development back for example in the way you found out, by not supporting new features |
| 13:07 |
Guest74 |
ah yes well it is hard to update mobile clients, particularly iOS |
| 13:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> iirc, they use to contribute back code, till they got annoyed with minetest pr hell. so to be fair they did at one point contribute back |
| 13:08 |
Guest74 |
many MultiCraft 1.0 players cannot update without buying a new phone. |
| 13:08 |
Guest74 |
and there are still many MultiCraft 1.0 players connecting |
| 13:08 |
Guest74 |
it seems unfair and well, just bad practise, to cut off a playerbase like that |
| 13:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> minetest did that long time ago with 0.4.x 🤷 |
| 13:09 |
celeron55 |
in any case, they're creating problems for MT, that MT wouldn't have if multicraft didn't exist |
| 13:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> which is what multicraft 1.0 is (0.4.x) |
| 13:09 |
Guest74 |
yes well you also would not have 294 players connected right now without them |
| 13:09 |
celeron55 |
and if you think i'm arguing against you, you're mistaken |
| 13:09 |
celeron55 |
this doesn't affect or worry me at all |
| 13:09 |
Guest74 |
it's not an argument I'm just pointing out facts |
| 13:10 |
celeron55 |
you asked for arguments so i'm listing you some possible ones |
| 13:10 |
Guest74 |
sure |
| 13:10 |
kilbith |
it must be pointed out that some core-devs earned money from MultiCraft |
| 13:11 |
Guest74 |
yeah but it's an open source project, what did you expect? |
| 13:11 |
Guest74 |
who actually thinks when they release code to the public that people wont use it in a way you don't want them to |
| 13:11 |
Guest74 |
having sour grapes over that is silly |
| 13:12 |
Guest74 |
you just have to accept that is the nature of things and move on, they made money where you could have but you didn't |
| 13:12 |
kilbith |
I'm not sour, I've earned 18k€ the last summer with MultiCraft |
| 13:12 |
Guest74 |
lol |
| 13:12 |
kilbith |
I mean 2021's summer |
| 13:12 |
Guest74 |
okay okay i see |
| 13:12 |
Guest74 |
so you are on the multicraft side of the fence? |
| 13:13 |
Guest74 |
this makes even less sense because you maintain the i3 inventory which is certainly NOT multicraft friendly |
| 13:13 |
kilbith |
I care about making people happy |
| 13:13 |
Guest74 |
really? |
| 13:14 |
Guest74 |
what is your method of monetising multicraft btw? |
| 13:14 |
kilbith |
what? |
| 13:14 |
Guest74 |
do you pump ads through the mobile client? |
| 13:14 |
Guest74 |
do you sell servers? |
| 13:14 |
kilbith |
I don't own multicraft |
| 13:14 |
Guest74 |
"I've earned 18k€ the last summer with MultiCraft" then how are you monetising it? |
| 13:14 |
kilbith |
I did work for them at some point but not involved anymore |
| 13:15 |
Guest74 |
i see, so what can you tell me about having worked for them? did you leave on good terms? and what kind of paid position did they give you and how are they generating that revenue? |
| 13:16 |
kilbith |
it wasn't on good terms, the owner refused to pay me the last month and he refused to give money back to c55 to support upstream development |
| 13:17 |
Guest74 |
still you took 18k that a good sum |
| 13:17 |
Guest74 |
you where doing development work for them or something? |
| 13:18 |
kilbith |
why so curious anyway |
| 13:18 |
Guest74 |
assuming you worked 6 months that is 3k EUR a month that you where paid? |
| 13:18 |
Guest74 |
i'm just trying to understand the situation a little |
| 13:18 |
kilbith |
why? |
| 13:19 |
kilbith |
what's the end goal |
| 13:19 |
Guest74 |
has anyone considered slapping adverts on the mobile minetest client for android to generate revenue? |
| 13:19 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> Guest74: yes, see multicraft |
| 13:20 |
Guest74 |
Lol no because the multicraft owner, if someone could name him, is clearly not going to any money to celeron or the MT project |
| 13:20 |
Guest74 |
which means that the MT project would need to launch their own adverts on their own mobile client |
| 13:21 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> yeah he doesn't give a fuck about upstream, but he has indeed slapped adverts on the mobile minetest client |
| 13:21 |
Guest74 |
then whats stopping you guys doing the same |
| 13:21 |
Guest74 |
slap adverts on it |
| 13:21 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Integrity |
| 13:22 |
Guest74 |
eh then why complain if someone else does it? |
| 13:22 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> As long as they can do it without bothering us, we pretty much wouldn't |
| 13:22 |
Guest74 |
based on integrity you should not even want to accept a donation from MC advertising revenue |
| 13:23 |
Guest74 |
Warr1024 so how do you feel they bother the community? |
| 13:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I don't think they do very much, hence why I don't complain about them much. |
| 13:24 |
Guest74 |
its an interesting situation |
| 13:24 |
Guest74 |
thanks for entertaining my questioning everyone I have learned a little more |
| 13:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Historically there have been incidents, but those have been mitigated via a progressive parting of ways. Their ecosystem used to be tied to ours more, and it is becoming more distinct. |
| 13:26 |
Guest74 |
I wish I had been there to witness it, now I have to reconstruct it from second hand events. |
| 13:27 |
celeron55 |
MT a weird project when you compare it to most commercial projects, but there are many projects like MT in the FOSS world |
| 13:28 |
muurkha |
Guest74: in general if a free software project like minecraft includes malicious code like adware the users will fork it to remove the malicious code |
| 13:29 |
muurkha |
usually then most people switch to the non-malicious version |
| 13:29 |
celeron55 |
free software project like what? :D |
| 13:29 |
muurkha |
oh, there are a bunch of things on f-droid that have had adware removed |
| 13:30 |
Guest74 |
yes sadly the mobile markets are highly saturated, the only real way to monetise apps on there is via adverts which is an industry rife with fraud. |
| 13:30 |
muurkha |
other incidents have included the ubuntu-transmitting-searches-to-amazon thing and the sourceforge-corrupting-installers controversy |
| 13:31 |
Guest74 |
corrupting installers lol? |
| 13:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Non-commercial FOSS sort of encourages you to throw away assumptions inherited from commercial-proprietary about what's valuable. For example, users have inherent value to a commercial product as paying customers, while for FOSS, they're merely a pool of potential contributors, so making something with mainstream popularity is not as important. |
| 13:31 |
Guest74 |
corrupting competitor apps or something? |
| 13:31 |
muurkha |
no, not competitor apps |
| 13:31 |
Guest74 |
ubuntu-transmitting-searches-to-amazon is pretty sus! |
| 13:31 |
muurkha |
sourceforge was injecting malware into installers if projects opted in |
| 13:31 |
Guest74 |
oh my god |
| 13:31 |
Guest74 |
like toolbars? |
| 13:32 |
Guest74 |
very common these days, making money on the internet seems to rarely be white collar |
| 13:33 |
Guest74 |
not everyone can beg for donations in the manner Jimmy Wales can ;) |
| 13:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> FOSS projects also don't have things quite analogous to "competitors". Instead, what we have is more like other people running experiments, whose results everyone gets to benefit from. The only places this really doesn't work is when people fail to honor the licenses. |
| 13:34 |
muurkha |
no, the installers would display ads. https://lwn.net/Articles/675002/ |
| 13:34 |
Guest74 |
I'm not sure even Elon Musk is honouring the Linux license with whatever he's doing with SpaceX from what I've been hearing. |
| 13:35 |
muurkha |
wih install buttons for additional apps whose owners were paying to have them included (which yeah were presumably things like toolbars |
| 13:35 |
muurkha |
) |
| 13:35 |
Guest74 |
muurkha: well that's not too bad but if not doing correctly it could expose their users to exploits served via the ads |
| 13:35 |
Guest74 |
yes sneaky install buttons are not fair play |
| 13:35 |
muurkha |
'At least two of the side-load payload applications are known: FileZilla includes Hotspot Shield, which is touted as an ad-supported browser security bundle (offering vague promises of anonymity, HTTPS safety, and firewall tunneling); other downloads are reported to include a "toolbar" for Ask.com and related web services.' |
| 13:36 |
Guest74 |
having a "yes install blah" tickbox at the TOS screen should be illegal |
| 13:36 |
muurkha |
from https://lwn.net/Articles/564250/ |
| 13:37 |
muurkha |
https://www.infoworld.com/article/2929732/sourceforge-commits-reputational-suicide.html goes into more details (this was the year before the first lwn link above, after they got bought by decent people) |
| 13:38 |
Guest74 |
sfan5: any idea where the duplication happens? you are aware of it right? looking at your code I assume it starts at update: so getWithIndex() but it seems this function should not fail right |
| 13:38 |
Guest74 |
if the lock fails it reutrns none and no duplicate entry |
| 13:38 |
Guest74 |
oops |
| 13:39 |
Guest74 |
no if the lock fails it appends a duplicate |
| 13:39 |
Guest74 |
https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/blob/master/server.py#L490 |
| 13:39 |
Guest74 |
if i is not None: self.list[i] = server else: self.list.append(server) |
| 13:40 |
Guest74 |
I suppose having my server listed twice is not a bad thing for me |
| 13:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Minetest adding ads would be ironic, since we sort of lean the opposite direction. In fact, I have an ad removal mod on CDB... |
| 13:43 |
Guest74 |
Sadly there would be no other method to monetise Minetest simply because it is the defacto free option, it is arguable the only reason people really play it over Minecraft is because it is free. |
| 13:43 |
Guest74 |
Although I would love if Minetest could find a way to become profitable, I just really don't think there is any white collar methods. |
| 13:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Thankfully, there is no reason to assume that Minetest even should be monetized. |
| 13:44 |
Guest74 |
Lol right |
| 13:44 |
Guest74 |
Doesn't stop PAW crypto server from trying sadly X'D although he is bringing in a lot of new blood to the server list which is admirable |
| 13:45 |
Guest74 |
I've seen his server at around 80 players fairly frequently which tops most servers by 30 on their peak player counts, most of that seems to be coming from his "crypto community". |
| 13:45 |
Guest74 |
I wonder what percentage will convert to other MT servers, probably very little but there's hope. |
| 13:46 |
mazes_84 |
can't use colorize for dark_grey and dark_green now, I need to pass hex values, any better way |
| 13:46 |
Guest74 |
darkgrey should work without the _? |
| 13:46 |
Guest74 |
I know hotpink does |
| 13:46 |
mazes_84 |
ok |
| 13:46 |
mazes_84 |
will have a try |
| 13:46 |
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| 13:47 |
mazes_84 |
Guest74: are you known as Guest60 ? |
| 13:48 |
Guest74 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/util/string.cpp#L363 |
| 13:48 |
Guest74 |
here is a full list of color strings mazes |
| 13:48 |
muurkha |
i think you mean 'white hat', i.e., not evil, not 'white collar' |
| 13:48 |
Guest74 |
I may have been Guest60 what did he talk about? |
| 13:48 |
muurkha |
'white collar' means 'working in an office' |
| 13:49 |
Guest74 |
lol you'd indeed be correct there murrkha |
| 13:49 |
Guest74 |
"SourceForge commits reputational suicide" |
| 13:49 |
Guest74 |
more like "SourceForge seals it's own grave" |
| 13:50 |
Guest74 |
or, hehe, "SourceForge quickly seals it's own grave before Git does it for them" |
| 13:51 |
Guest74 |
I wonder if one day SourceForge will cease to be and all the projects once on it will be lost forever, and not even archive.org will have backed them up |
| 13:51 |
Guest74 |
I think it is probable |
| 13:56 |
muurkha |
well, some decent folks bought it in 02016 and it seems to be okay since then |
| 13:56 |
muurkha |
and now it supports git |
| 13:57 |
Guest74 |
that's cool I guess, you use it personally? |
| 13:58 |
muurkha |
i don't think i've used sourceforge in 17 years |
| 13:58 |
muurkha |
for development i mean. i've probably installed something from it more recently than that |
| 13:59 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> TIL sourceforge still exists |
| 13:59 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> whenever I try to find the site of some open source project and end up on sourceforge I always assume it's abandoned 🙃 |
| 14:00 |
muurkha |
hmm, this https://www.cbr.com/ikea-the-store-is-closed-cease-and-desist-horror-game/ is maybe related to the infinite ikea game |
| 14:00 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> lol we've talked about that incident a couple times on discord |
| 14:01 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> but for benrob I don't think he'll need a cease, just a desist, if it ever goes that far 😄 |
| 14:02 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> can always rebrand to the infinite JYSK though, I'm sure they wouldn't mind |
| 14:06 |
Guest74 |
Ah that horror game looks like so much fun muurkha I saw this recently and really am excited to play it |
| 14:07 |
Guest74 |
who is benrob ROllerozxa? |
| 14:08 |
Guest74 |
he is the lead of the ikea game? |
| 14:08 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> he makes the infinite ikea minetest game, which is a separate game from the one that got C&D'd |
| 14:09 |
Guest74 |
ah okay! |
| 14:09 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> https://content.minetest.net/packages/benrob0329/ikea/ |
| 14:09 |
Guest74 |
yes ikea are heavy on lawyers they don't like people misrepresenting their brand |
| 14:09 |
Guest74 |
it is very likely they just have not seen benrobs game but if informed they would send a C&D absolutely |
| 14:10 |
Guest74 |
yes they would not like that |
| 14:11 |
Guest74 |
i used their name innocently once |
| 14:12 |
Guest74 |
i think it is just protocol to protect their trademark, they have people employed to make sure no one is using it and mail C&D when they findout someone is |
| 14:13 |
Guest74 |
but they where quite pushy and persistent |
| 14:13 |
Guest74 |
demanding |
| 14:20 |
muurkha |
heh |
| 14:20 |
muurkha |
almost like lawyers |
| 14:23 |
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| 14:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Re: PAWS bringing players to the serverlist "which is admirable", no, not necessarily. Just increasing the raw player count is not, in itself, automatically good. Players who are interested in the material and engage with it at least a bit might possibly be valuable, but AFK farmers just hoping for a few microbucks are not necessarily a net gain. |
| 14:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Each user of MT brings a certain potential to become a contributor, whether engine PRs, valid bug reports, mods/packages, etc. They also bring a certain amount of network load, support workload, etc. They also also bring effects of very difficult to determine value, like affecting the server list and CDB scoring/sorting and influencing what parts of the ecosystem other players are exposed to. Whether an added player is net good/bad |
| 14:40 |
MTDiscord |
is not so clear-cut. |
| 14:40 |
Guest74 |
Lol yes, well, he makes them perform actions for rewards from what he told me, how he implements this, probably a simple edit to income.lua in the currency mod X"D |
| 14:41 |
sfan5 |
Guest74: I'm not aware of duplicate listings, need more details |
| 14:42 |
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| 14:42 |
Guest74 |
https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/blob/218f8d9bc5b2b4e7edf21e731a53cbca8377783d/server.py#L370 |
| 14:42 |
Guest74 |
if self.lock fails it will return None and then it will add a duplicate entry |
| 14:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I don't know how it's implemented either, but there are some pretty obvious and easy ways to do this. I have an "experience points" system on my servers, and each dig/place, or 10 seconds of not-just-standing-around a player does awards them 1xp. If players reach a certain threshold, then their accounts are no longer subject to automatic deletion from inactivity. |
| 14:43 |
Guest74 |
I frequently see my servers being double listed sadly |
| 14:43 |
Guest74 |
why do you delete accounts for inactivity Warr? |
| 14:44 |
Guest74 |
does having a large user account list cause problems for you? |
| 14:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Rewarding players for AFKing is highly dubious ... but rewarding players just for doing arbitrary stuff is ... also a bit dubious. It's important to keep the rewards moderate, at least. Promising to actually pay people something of real value for playing is bound to be controversial... |
| 14:45 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I delete old accounts for inactivity because (1) historically, having a large player database has been known to cause performance issues, though IIRC this is not necessarily universally true anymore, and (2) my game specifically has mechanics that treat offline players as if they still have some footprint in the world, which COULD lead to performance issues. |
| 14:46 |
Guest74 |
ah yes that could make slow lua iterations even slower |
| 14:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Granted, there is one other server, on pretty modest hardware (weaker than my own $5/month VPS, from what I can tell) that does NOT purge offline accounts, and has one place where the "ghosts" of offline players are all gathered ... and it doesn't seem to be terrible for performance nevertheless ... but I'm gonna stay on the safe side, at leats. |
| 14:46 |
sfan5 |
Guest74: "with self.lock:" cannot fail, it is not an if-statement |
| 14:46 |
Guest74 |
wow what server is that Warr sounds cool I want to see that |
| 14:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> One trick I've found for dealing with very large numbers of entities is not to register an on_step for them at all, and use an external timer to process them. This means that I can run logic for them much less frequently, and do things in a large batch operations where there can be some economies of scale. |
| 14:47 |
Guest74 |
sfan5: well you see I'm not a python programmer but I can assure you my servers double list multiple times a day usually and if its not in the getWithIndex im not sure where it would be |
| 14:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The server with hundreds of offline ghosts is Kimapr's Darkest NodeCore server, on the public serverlist. You need to know at least the basic game mechanics well enough to climb out of the starting pit before you can play, and like 99% of players just end up stuck in there. |
| 14:48 |
Guest74 |
the parts of the code pushing new servers onto the list, its got to be there somewhere |
| 14:49 |
sfan5 |
I was thinking like more details on how the duplicate entries look |
| 14:49 |
Guest74 |
well they look the same but have slightly different stats |
| 14:50 |
Guest74 |
next time it happens ill dump the json for you |
| 14:50 |
Guest74 |
pastebin it |
| 14:50 |
sfan5 |
sure that'd be helpful |
| 14:50 |
Guest74 |
np |
| 14:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If you are changing something about your server, and that change affects how the serverlist uniquely identifies servers, like if you change the address/port or something (e.g. your IP address changes and you're using IP and not a hostname for the address) then it would make sense to expect a duplicate listing then, until the entry for the old IP times out. |
| 14:52 |
Guest74 |
nah i aint changing anything |
| 14:52 |
Guest74 |
static ip |
| 14:53 |
Guest74 |
oh wait |
| 14:53 |
Guest74 |
does it use the IP of the server or the person who made the request sfan5? |
| 14:53 |
Guest74 |
my server IP is static but I am making the request behind a GCN |
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| 14:54 |
Guest74 |
Carrier Grade Nat |
| 14:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If it relies at all on the source of the announcement request, that's arguably a bug. Servers might have weird outbound proxy setups or something. |
| 14:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It is unusual to have a server working from behind CGNAT, and unusual to have a server sending announcements from a different network than it's serving by ... but I suppose anything is possible. |
| 14:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I haven't messed with CGNAT for a while; the only people I knew who ran it ended up just renting a VPS and running both the hosting and the serverlist announcements from that. |
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| 14:58 |
Guest74 |
well it's a residential line with a static ip assigned to it |
| 14:58 |
Guest74 |
so outgoing is always via the CGNAT |
| 14:58 |
Guest74 |
but incoming is via whatever IP I assigned and give to services |
| 14:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Oh interesting |
| 15:00 |
muurkha |
ugh, cgnat |
| 15:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The serverlist is open source (on MT's github) so you can see what it actually does directly... |
| 15:02 |
Guest74 |
the double listing is probably also registering as a "server has restarted before within the last 2 hours" penalty too which is not great |
| 15:02 |
Guest74 |
i some instances maybe, i mean, i doubt it changes that often |
| 15:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If you're ending up in a new listing and losing your old one, then any/all of your stats might be getting reset, so you might e.g. lose the "age" stat too... |
| 15:04 |
Guest74 |
burtal server["ip"] = ip, p = request.remote_addr |
| 15:04 |
Guest74 |
:'( |
| 15:05 |
Guest74 |
sfan5: could you add to getWithIndex a if (server["ip"] == ip || serverhostname/ip) and server["port"] == port: |
| 15:05 |
Guest74 |
sfan5: server["ip"] is the request IP and not the server IP so my cgnat is causing the problem |
| 15:08 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> It's probably done on purpose, to prevent you from flooding the server list from one IP |
| 15:08 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> No option for you to use the stable IP? |
| 15:09 |
Guest74 |
No but if both IP's are considered it solves both problems |
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| 15:10 |
Guest74 |
otherwise I could technically at the moment, if I was a malicious actor, spam my server in the server list 100,000's of times from a swarm of proxies or similar |
| 15:10 |
Guest74 |
all pointing to the same server |
| 15:11 |
Guest74 |
although I would imagine that to no fair my server ranking that well in the eyes of the op |
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| 15:12 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> Why would someone flood the list with your server? They would just flood with tons of fake servers. |
| 15:12 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> No easy way to protect from that |
| 15:13 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> Considering both the request's IP and the server address sounds good anyways |
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beanzilla |
Hi there, I'm trying to determine if you could implement add_wear_by_uses for an older version of minetest? (I'm not sure where to start on the lua side of things) |
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beanzilla |
nevermind, I see many issues with trying to reimplement won't work. (unless I've got plenty of idle time to rewrite backward compatibility code) |
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