| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:01 |
fluxionary |
i cleared out a couple gigs of ancient media from my minetest cache directory, i've been pondering whether to propose creating some sorts of (configurable) limits on it |
| 00:02 |
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| 00:03 |
muurkha |
fluxionary: yeah, I didn't mean to track an individual, though it might be possible |
| 00:03 |
muurkha |
can you query a particular hash without actually sending them the media? |
| 00:05 |
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| 00:05 |
rubenwardy |
I believe the server sends a list of hashes the client needs, and then the client requests ones it doesn't have |
| 00:06 |
rubenwardy |
theoretically, the server might be able to not send at that stage, but I suspect it'll prevent the client from joining the game |
| 00:06 |
muurkha |
yeah, that's what it sounds like |
| 00:07 |
muurkha |
although at that point the server knows your username |
| 00:07 |
muurkha |
it's probably not an important privacy leak even if it can be probed nondestructively |
| 00:08 |
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| 00:17 |
diceLibrarian |
Ruben, did you see that stupid image I put in the buildings channel? |
| 00:55 |
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| 01:22 |
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| 01:30 |
HanSaul |
thats correct if the server does not send the client will fail to connect |
| 01:31 |
HanSaul |
i checked the cache folder and it does just seem to slap files in there by hash and names them after said hash |
| 01:31 |
HanSaul |
which is fine |
| 01:31 |
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| 01:32 |
HanSaul |
i was considering cutting down the minetest_game but leaving it as-is would make my server load faster than serving up some botched version |
| 01:32 |
HanSaul |
as those files would already be in most users local cache |
| 01:33 |
HanSaul |
with all the png compression that takes place, I assume that only helps the connection speed for sending clients files, eventually they get unpacked into memory at full RGB 1 byte pixels or RGBA |
| 01:34 |
HanSaul |
anyone running a server on an i9-13900k yet? |
| 01:35 |
HanSaul |
and whats the biggest world file anyones ever heard of someone having? mine is 140 GB+ atm |
| 01:36 |
HanSaul |
im guessing it will baseline somewhere around sea level map blocks being fully loaded |
| 01:36 |
HanSaul |
whatever that number would end up being on average |
| 01:37 |
HanSaul |
30900^2 = 954810000 / 16^2 = 3,729,726 map blocks |
| 01:39 |
HanSaul |
assume average mapblock is 8 mb? just guessing, thats 29,837,808 mb so about 30 TB |
| 01:40 |
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| 01:40 |
HanSaul |
just for full completion of mapblocks at sea level, but I am going to assume it would realistically be under 16 TB maybe more around 8 TB and with some house keeping nuking blocks outside protectors as Buckaroo does, probably under 1 TB easily |
| 01:42 |
HanSaul |
I feel like minetest is unsustainable for popular servers, unless you do housekeeping as suggested above, and even then, protection options are... well those who do use them tend to use them incorrectly and there's still a very large percent who just dont use them |
| 01:42 |
HanSaul |
if one is to take housekeeping seriously, they need to solve the protector issue first |
| 01:43 |
HanSaul |
but then the only way to solve that is to give every node ownership which would probably make the blocksize even less sustainable |
| 01:43 |
HanSaul |
so that protection becomes automatic for user placed nodes |
| 01:43 |
HanSaul |
and shared areas can be configured in the inventory by the user |
| 01:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> iirc ShadMOrdre or Skamiz Kazzarch once said that they emerged all of a map, or all of a map on surface level, thats probably in the top 10 of largest maps |
| 01:44 |
HanSaul |
wow, did they specify how much diskspace that took up? |
| 01:45 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> iirc it was in one of the many forum threads about expanding minetest world size if you want to go digging for it |
| 01:45 |
HanSaul |
ill take a look thank you |
| 01:46 |
HanSaul |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19472 |
| 01:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> eh, not the exact thing i was thinking of |
| 02:20 |
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| 08:26 |
sfan5 |
<HanSaul> assume average mapblock is 8 mb? just guessing, thats 29,837,808 mb so about 30 TB |
| 08:26 |
sfan5 |
the raw uncompressed node data in a mapblock is 20 KB |
| 08:39 |
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| 09:06 |
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| 09:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> Hi folks! |
| 09:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1032947200298319962/Capture.PNG |
| 09:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> How can I create these suggested changes while I reviewing someone pr? |
| 09:23 |
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| 09:25 |
sfan5 |
https://a.uguu.se/xepcwXuK.png |
| 09:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> but how to specify the line? |
| 09:25 |
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| 09:27 |
sfan5 |
you click on the plus sign that appears when you hover the right line |
| 09:28 |
sfan5 |
you can also select a range by two shift-clicks as usual, then click the plus sign on the last selected line |
| 09:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> the plus sign shows up only on the lines modified by the PR, but the line I want to comment hasn't been modified by the PR, but it should |
| 09:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> and so the plus sign doesn't show up |
| 09:31 |
sfan5 |
then you can't comment on it |
| 09:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> ah! ok |
| 09:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> thx 🙂 |
| 09:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> has the backport-5 branch been removed? |
| 09:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> git says it's "stale". I still have it in my local clone of minetest/minetest repo |
| 09:44 |
rubenwardy |
it's only in use when we're backporting to create a patch release |
| 09:45 |
rubenwardy |
the release is then made in stable-5 |
| 09:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> ok. Thx! |
| 09:48 |
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| 13:14 |
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| 13:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Niklp> Minetest icon is broken on Linux mint 21 when irrlicht sdl enabled |
| 13:24 |
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| 13:33 |
sfan5 |
known issue |
| 13:40 |
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| 13:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Niklp> oh sorry |
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| 15:03 |
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| 15:10 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Revise bump_version.sh script to address shortcomings (#12789) 9f0d884 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/9f0d88407d9dadb1a8cf8c03131eda034f2f19e1 (2022-10-21T15:09:44Z) |
| 15:13 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Desour -> minetest/minetest: Fix formspec focus (#12795) 7153cb8 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/7153cb8a0bd6a0d405e2d84975812164233be4f6 (2022-10-21T15:11:41Z) |
| 15:13 |
MinetestBot |
[git] snowyu -> minetest/minetest: guiChatConsole: fix the unicode characters crowded together on prompt… 8bdedd2 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/8bdedd2bcf31ba9f8acd1457cfaeb652f64abf34 (2022-10-21T15:12:07Z) |
| 15:13 |
MinetestBot |
[git] TurkeyMcMac -> minetest/minetest: Fix use of unassigned global "check" c78d565 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/c78d565e011125a13c1e29584c04f2b97f0d6b3e (2022-10-21T15:12:21Z) |
| 15:13 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Abdou-31 -> minetest/minetest: Fix typos and en_US/en_GB inconsistency in files inside doc directory… 7e11b8e https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/7e11b8eb721a9039e84ea51ec2e1f58d3c036849 (2022-10-21T15:12:39Z) |
| 15:18 |
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| 15:40 |
definitelya |
Ăą |
| 15:52 |
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| 16:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> thx sfan5 🙂 |
| 16:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> I've discovered a very powerful git tool: git grep |
| 16:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> crazy |
| 16:21 |
celeron55_ |
i often use grep -IsnR or some such, but the problem with that often is that it finds you all kinds of build files and hidden files that you don't care about. git grep gets around that IF all the files you're interested have been committed to git |
| 16:21 |
celeron55_ |
interested in* |
| 16:23 |
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| 16:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> great |
| 16:27 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> fixing common typos will be a piece of cake using git grep |
| 16:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1033057010935152742/necessary.PNG |
| 16:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> wow |
| 16:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> people tend to write it with 2 'c' |
| 16:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> fortunately, those 3 are all what remain 🙂 |
| 16:44 |
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| 17:36 |
definitelya |
Ok Minecraft ha sofficially won against Mineclone 2/5/-clonia/6/9/etc, they have a sniffa mob now, fam! |
| 17:36 |
definitelya |
It's over for it. /s |
| 17:37 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> snefler? |
| 17:37 |
definitelya |
Is that what it's called? IDEK |
| 17:41 |
muurkha |
a sniffa mob? |
| 17:41 |
muurkha |
who has the sniffa mob, Minecraft or Mineclone? |
| 17:43 |
definitelya |
Minecraft has it. |
| 17:45 |
definitelya |
Keep your toes safe! |
| 17:47 |
*Â muurkha |
looks with concern at toes |
| 17:47 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> also how in the hell did a mob with the name "sniffa" get past mojang stockholm |
| 17:48 |
definitelya |
xD |
| 17:48 |
Pexin |
sniffalupagus |
| 17:48 |
definitelya |
Like, why |
| 17:48 |
definitelya |
??? |
| 17:49 |
definitelya |
Roller: I think its name is "Sniffer". Still... |
| 17:49 |
definitelya |
I'm staying far away from that dumpster fire of a game. |
| 17:49 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> oh thank god |
| 17:51 |
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| 17:54 |
muurkha |
so why does that mean Minecraft has officially won? |
| 17:54 |
muurkha |
or, in what sense? |
| 17:55 |
definitelya |
It's a joke. :P |
| 17:55 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> glue sniffer mob |
| 17:55 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> take my money microsoft |
| 17:55 |
definitelya |
mhm |
| 18:04 |
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| 18:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> Is it fine to do only one PR to fix a large number of typos (100+) in many files (20+) at once? |
| 18:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> Actually, 50+ files |
| 18:26 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> code comment spellcheck I assume? should be fine |
| 18:27 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Minetest seems to have a general preference for large, squashed commits, so it seems sensible to me. |
| 18:27 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> Nice |
| 18:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> A question: are po folder exclusively for translation files? |
| 18:29 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> yes, no touchie, they're supposed to be edited from weblate |
| 18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> Oh! No typo fixing on them? O.O |
| 18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> Why? |
| 18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> because they're supposed to be edited from weblate |
| 18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> I mean English typos |
| 18:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> Even English sentences? |
| 18:31 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> then you would edit the source strings |
| 18:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> Ues |
| 18:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> Yes* |
| 18:31 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> in the source code, and then the locale files will be regenerated during the next feature freeze |
| 18:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> All English sentences in those files are strings sources? |
| 18:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> So i can fix typos in them? |
| 18:32 |
Pexin |
if the key string is changed, wouldnt that just detach the translation strings so they would need to be created again from scratch, or re-attached manually? |
| 18:33 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> they will need to be retranslated |
| 18:33 |
Pexin |
I strongly suggest not touching those strings in the sourcecode either |
| 18:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> Oh |
| 18:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> That's weird then |
| 18:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I can't speak much about the engine (it handles translations a bit differently) but for mods, the translations are always keyed purely on the English text, so changing so much as a bit of punctuation invalidates all translations of that string and requires it to be retranslated everywhere. |
| 18:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I wouldn't be surprised, at least, though, if the engine's own strings suffer similar limitations. |
| 18:34 |
definitelya |
Abdou: You should read CONTRIBUTING.md in the minetest/.github directory. |
| 18:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> I think i did |
| 18:34 |
definitelya |
Nice |
| 18:34 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> "That's weird then" ...that's just how translations with the english text as key work, not really weird |
| 18:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> I mean, as warr said, that's a big limitation |
| 18:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> If fixing a typo needs to retranslate the whole sentence |
| 18:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> But well |
| 18:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> I won't touch the po folder |
| 18:36 |
Pexin |
also dont touch anything inside S() calls |
| 18:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> O.O |
| 18:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> What's that? |
| 18:36 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> lua translation function |
| 18:36 |
definitelya |
Weblate is equipped with an interface to keep things easy. |
| 18:36 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> it exists in the builtin game code, the rest of builtin uses main menu gettext functions that interface with the engine |
| 18:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> I did a little bit of translation from that website |
| 18:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> A tiny little bit |
| 18:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> I hope i will do more |
| 18:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> So po folder and S() function, anything else? |
| 18:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The sanest way to do translations is to not put any text in the source code, only key codes, and look up the text in each language based on the key. Â Then the English text (or whatever language is the "original" language) and then translations can be based on that. Â That requires a lot of planning in advance, though, so it's unsurprising that a volunteer-run project will have painted itself into a corner long before that. |
| 18:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Forcing English as the source language sucks too for other reasons. Â It doesn't let a non-English-speaker publish anything in other languages and hope it gets translated using the existing infrastructure, and it doesn't let you do stuff like deal with different dialects of English. |
| 18:39 |
muurkha |
also it's an extra level of indirection that can make it harder to get the first version running |
| 18:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> I don't get S() calls. Like in the definition of the function? or the passed params? |
| 18:40 |
muurkha |
like you make more mistakes taht way |
| 18:42 |
muurkha |
but another problem that can happen with English as base is where the same English phrase needs to be translated in two different ways depending on context |
| 18:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> Oh yeah, I ran into that problem too: in the website, it doesn't show you the context of the sentence to be translated |
| 18:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Abdou-31> Sometimes you need to know the context so you can translate accurately |
| 18:43 |
muurkha |
so for example in English the phrase "digging a hole" can be used as an adjectival phrase (I am a dwarf digging a hole) or a gerund (Digging a hole is rarely a good way to escape mobs) |
| 18:44 |
muurkha |
but in Spanish those are "cavando un pozo" and "cavar un pozo" respectively |
| 18:45 |
muurkha |
even without getting into questions like gender and number agreement, which are much less of a problem in English than in most Semitic and Indo-European languages |
| 18:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Ah, yeah, I forgot the english string reuse problem |
| 18:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> the worst one is when you end up with a translation string like "@1 @2" :-D |
| 18:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> like, maybe @1 is meant to be an adjective, and @2 is a noun, and this is just replacing the old code that used to just concatenate them. |
| 18:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> So to translate that into Spanish it might make sense to do "@2 @1" to fix the noun/adjective order |
| 18:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> but such a highly generic string could be reused elsewhere. |
| 18:59 |
sfan5 |
that just string concatenation with extra steps |
| 18:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> You could also use "login" as a noun to refer to the user's login name on a form, and the same "login" as a verb in a button to actually submit that form, so there's one screen that alone might not be translatable in some langauges. |
| 19:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Yeah, for the "@1 @2" case the compromise I found was just to do like "@1 noun" for each noun. Â You actually end up with 1 fewer total strings, and the same amount of work for translators, but less ambiguity. |
| 19:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It's still though just one more complication that people need to know going into this. |
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| 19:01 |
sfan5 |
still bad |
| 19:01 |
sfan5 |
ideally you need each combination be translatable differently |
| 19:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I mostly did that in my own game, but it's a trade-off |
| 19:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It makes more work, and more tedious and monotonous work, for translators |
| 19:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> if I have 5 things that come in 5 colors, I only have to program 10 things but translators have to translate 25, so it's kinda unfair. |
| 19:04 |
Desour |
can't we just use german everywhere and force everyone to learn german? |
| 19:05 |
muurkha |
Warr1024: that's an ingenious solution to the head-order problem |
| 19:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The problem with clever solutions though is that they can have surprising failure modes. |
| 19:06 |
muurkha |
I think there are very few languages where "login" the noun is the same as "log in" the verb |
| 19:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> In English "login" vs "log in" is kinda ambiguous. Â Spacing in a way is pretty flexible. Â People complain a lot when they see "alot" as one word, but we have "away" and "ahead" and other words that are similarly structured and readily accepted ... and now I've started seeing "awhile" a lot and I suspect that's going to become a thing too. |
| 19:07 |
Pexin |
lo gin. going to liquor store. |
| 19:08 |
muurkha |
alot: https://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html |
| 19:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> haha, yeah, the solution to every "your login form isn't working" bug is "well add more gin then" |
| 19:08 |
muurkha |
I think "awhile" dates back several centuries |
| 19:08 |
muurkha |
700 years: https://www.etymonline.com/word/awhile#etymonline_v_19022 |
| 19:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Well, it's been dormant but it's reawakaning |
| 19:09 |
muurkha |
"newt" is also interesting in this connection: https://www.etymonline.com/word/newt |
| 19:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> newts have been around long enough that they should be oldts by now. |
| 19:10 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> what a wonderful website |
| 19:10 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1033094992694099998/unknown.png |
| 19:11 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> imageshack is it that has put that "no war" image on expired images right? |
| 19:11 |
muurkha |
has it? it looks like "awhile"'s low point was about 01985, at a fourth of its peak popularity in 01856: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=awhile&year_start=1600&year_end=2022&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cawhile%3B%2Cc0#t1%3B%2Cawhile%3B%2Cc0 |
| 19:12 |
muurkha |
I mean that graph shows some much higher points in the 17th century but I think they might just be random noise due to having relatively few books scanned from that period |
| 19:13 |
Pexin |
https://pics.me.me/noone-cares-made-on-imgur-peter-noone-will-always-care-49636940.png |
| 19:14 |
muurkha |
aw :) |
| 19:15 |
muurkha |
it looks like "awhile"'s meteoric resurrection began about 01998 and peaked in 02011, since which point it's been pretty steady |
| 19:15 |
muurkha |
at least in books! Â it'd be interesting to know if the Usenet corpus yields divergent conclusions |
| 19:17 |
muurkha |
"awhile"'s long doldrums in the 80s were apparently exceeded by even lower rates of usage in the 01730s, before its dramatic resurgence in the 19th century up to almost double current levels |
| 19:18 |
muurkha |
in short, your prediction that "awhile" will "become a thing too" are surely correct ;) |
| 19:18 |
muurkha |
*is |
| 19:21 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I mean, awhile from now, alot of words are probably going to be like this, but living in afuture like that might give me aheadache. |
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| 19:41 |
muurkha |
in Spanish like 10% of common words are like that, incorporating the Arabic article: alacrán, alfajor, alambique, almohada, albañil, albaricoque, maybe alcatraz, alcohol, alcaucil, álcali, alcalde... |
| 19:43 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> We need a way for the serverlist to take not only quantity, but also quality, into account when ranking servers, comparable to how reviews now play a significant role alongside download counts on CDB. (e.g. I believe the crypto server on top of the list may have many players, but the experience of each player still is inferior to that of, say, players on CTF) |
| 19:43 |
Desour |
oh, german also has Alkohol |
| 19:43 |
muurkha |
"alcohol" is from "the kohl", extended to the general idea of substances purified by distillation, and then later restricted to wine thus purified |
| 19:44 |
muurkha |
what are the German words for albaricoque and álcali? |
| 19:44 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> We have Alkali |
| 19:44 |
Desour |
there are alkali metals |
| 19:44 |
muurkha |
yup, those are the ones |
| 19:44 |
Desour |
like natrium |
| 19:45 |
muurkha |
right. Â "sodium" in English, "sodio" in Spanish |
| 19:45 |
Desour |
what's albaricoque in english? |
| 19:45 |
muurkha |
"apricot", from Catalan "abercoc", which comes from Arabic "al birquq" |
| 19:45 |
muurkha |
amusingly the Arabic word "birquq" "apricot" comes originally from Latin! |
| 19:46 |
Desour |
how ironic |
| 19:46 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Aprikose |
| 19:47 |
muurkha |
that's probably from French (which got it from Catalan and thence Arabic) |
| 19:47 |
muurkha |
I'm guessing German has "alambique" too |
| 19:47 |
muurkha |
Alembik |
| 19:47 |
Desour |
btw. according to wikipedia, the english kohl is black dye: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohl_(cosmetics) |
| 19:48 |
muurkha |
anyway all of these are examples of the same kind of article assimilation as "awhile" (700 years ago) and "alot" (now) |
| 19:48 |
muurkha |
yes, that was the original maning of Arabic "al-kuhĂşl" |
| 19:48 |
Desour |
the german kohl is a plant (collard) |
| 19:49 |
muurkha |
huh, I thought collards were a different species! |
| 19:49 |
muurkha |
German Kohl entered English in "kohlrabi" |
| 19:50 |
Desour |
Brassica*? |
| 19:50 |
Desour |
kohlrabi is a special sort of kohl |
| 19:51 |
muurkha |
right, but the other Brassica cultivars already had English names |
| 19:51 |
Desour |
(kohl is a whole genus) |
| 19:52 |
muurkha |
collards, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, kale, Brussels sprouts, kohlrabi — all the same species, no? |
| 19:52 |
muurkha |
I think also "cole slaw" derives from German Kohl |
| 19:54 |
Desour |
idk, I don't know much about all this stuff. I get most of my knowledge from wikipedia |
| 19:58 |
muurkha |
the 01851 edition of Cooley's Cyclopædia says of "alcohol": "From the Arabic al the, and kohol antimony.  A term originally applied to several chemical preparations, presumed to be very subtile, or brought to the highest state of tenuity, but at the present day restricted to pure spirit of wine, of the strongest class." |
| 19:59 |
muurkha |
unfortunately I don't have any 17th-century alchemical reference books to consult |
| 20:00 |
muurkha |
https://www.etymonline.com/word/cole-slaw says it comes from Dutch "koolsla" |
| 20:01 |
muurkha |
but English used to have "col" "cabbage" up to only a few hundred years ago, and it survived in some dialects |
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muurkha |
apparently in German alcohol used to just be called "Weingeist": "wine ghost" |
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| 23:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Does the MT build process do anything like -march=native optimizations or something that would cause a build on one CPU to fail to run on a different CPU of the same architecture? |
| 23:03 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> e.g. if I build MT on a newer x86_64 system, can that cause it to dump core with "illegal instruction" on a much older x86_64 machine? |
| 23:03 |
schwarzwald[m] |
`grep -march CMakeLists.txt` ? |
| 23:04 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I think the answer is yes. |
| 23:04 |
schwarzwald[m] |
`grep "-march" CMakeLists.txt`* |
| 23:05 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Hmm, nope, can't find anything like that. |
| 23:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Hmm, I need to figure out what I need to do to build a version that works on older CPUs then |
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| 23:23 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Warr, if you have a fast CPU for compiling, I'd recommend doing a fresh build (clean CMake Cache) with the verbose flag. |
| 23:23 |
schwarzwald[m] |
That has been my goto initial debugging approach for builds and it has served me well. |
| 23:24 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Could direct the output into a log file and grep it. If a flag gets added anywhere, like in a third party, it should be in there. |
| 23:32 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Another approach would be to debug the executable and figure out which instruction is invalid and where it is, I think |
| 23:34 |
schwarzwald[m] |
if(IS_I686) |
| 23:34 |
schwarzwald[m] |
message(STATUS "Detected Intel x86: using SSE instead of x87 FPU") |
| 23:34 |
schwarzwald[m] |
add_compile_options(-mfpmath=sse -msse) |
| 23:34 |
schwarzwald[m] |
endif() |
| 23:34 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Warr, found some sus stuff in the Irrlicht build. |
| 23:34 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Can someone ping him? |
| 23:35 |
schwarzwald[m] |
There's a similar thing for MSVC. I'll bet Minetest has something similar... |
| 23:36 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Yep, Minetest does this as well. This is 1 candidate. Doesn't strike me as particularly likely but it's a possibility. |
| 23:36 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I would check the verbose build output. If it includes an `-sse` flag or something that's a likely culprit. |
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| 23:37 |
schwarzwald[m] |
If something like that is the issue, working around it would most likely entail modifying the build by hand to remove the part that adds the flag. It doesn't look like there's a build option for these. |
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