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IRC log for #minetest, 2022-07-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:58 erle i have realized dealing with minetest development may be bad for my mental health. the reason is not because my recent contribution <https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/12592> is not welcome – but rather because i have reflected upon earlier behaviour of a-certain-coredev-that-does-not-want-to-be-highlighted towards me and others: denying that bugs even exist, suggesting workarounds that make things work or do not work, no
01:59 erle t even trying to understand some things yet having some strong opinions, trying to block others from contributing useful things. i suspect that this behaviour is either intended to drive away casual contributors (see: “management by perkele”) or that it is as side effect of toxic brogrammer culture (e.g. “if you can deliver results, you are allowed to be a dick”). i do not think that it is worth to try changin
01:59 erle g this: projects like systemd and suckless (“make unix great again” with all of the implications) have proven that it is possible to deliver software even if the developers tolerate arrogant jerk behaviour. but if any of my friends acted like the-coredev-who-must-not-be-over to literally anyone and kept doing that after being called out, i would end the friendship on short notice.
02:04 erle i am not the only one having such an opinion. as far as i am aware, others have done so, some months or even several years back. i have seen these kind of complaints being dismissed multiple times. this is not good. if anyone has a list of viable forks (not multicraft) that do not tolerate insults or devs having opnions without even interested in learning about a topic, please contact me in a query.
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04:06 ball Does every world have a giant's castle in it?
04:25 ball ...or did I just get lucky?
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07:41 Freeza I created a fork of minetest game aand was running on v 5.6.0 but it gives an error message saying that my engine's version is old for the game. What should I do now
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11:51 MinetestBot [git] rubenwardy -> minetest/minetest: Fix some warnings (#12615) a871115 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/a8711158896d993e23d823f41ab086c3915c7d4e (2022-07-30T11:51:23Z)
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16:28 copolymer__ I am trying to get a mod to interact with script on my system (to control my keyboard rgb). Is there a way to do an `os.execute()` in a (Client-Side?) mod?
16:31 rubenwardy Good video about Minetest from a Minecraft youtuber with 3.3M subs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6Fyav6FiIs
16:31 rubenwardy AntVenom - This is NOT Minecraft... ?!
16:45 sfan5 looks like the game jam was the best idea ever
16:47 Krock cannot find your "obligatory" post
16:48 Krock also yes, the game jam was really great. nowhere comparable to the stalled CTW
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16:49 Krock 1:46 oh hello that's me
17:01 Krock copolymer__: client mods do not have access to dangerous API such as `os.*` to my knowledge
17:01 rubenwardy yeah game jam was awesome
17:01 rubenwardy we're doing it again this year
17:02 Krock server-side mods do have a mod security system which prevent by default from ill-intentioned code
17:02 copolymer__ I did figure out that I can disabke mod security, but can I require os in an `request_insecure`emvironment`?
17:03 Krock not documented in client_lua_api.txt, so that's a no.
17:03 Krock there's neither a setting for client-side mods in minetest.conf to allow that
17:04 copolymer__ in a regular mod?
17:04 rubenwardy Krock: they basically cut me out :(
17:04 Krock regular server-side mods can use os.execute if they're trusted and request the insecure env, yes. however the execute part will only be run on the server and not client
17:05 Krock if you're using singleplayer anyway, that would work.
17:05 Krock rubenwardy: file a complaint :P
17:05 copolymer__ Yeah, that's what I want, this is just for a singleplayer world :P
17:06 rubenwardy oh wait, I'm half on the screen twice
17:06 Krock copolymer__: yes, then add the mod to the trusted mods setting and request the insecure env. that'll work just fine. although for user experience it's not that convenient
17:06 Krock rubenwardy: 7:25
17:07 Krock you have a few seconds of screentime
17:07 rubenwardy CERN used the video clip I told them not to use, as I misunderstood the question. So I'm glad they didn't use the clip of me talking, and used Jeija instead
17:10 copolymer__ can i `require` a lib in an insecure environment
17:10 rubenwardy yes. The IRC mod does that
17:10 rubenwardy to load luacsockets
17:10 rubenwardy only server-side though
17:10 rubenwardy you can't get an insecure env on the client
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17:14 rubenwardy Kinda wish we had the new main menu already
17:14 Krock copolymer__: it'll be insecureenv.require() but you get the idea
17:15 Krock rubenwardy: unpacks a whip   shakes whip nervously
17:15 copolymer__ Yep, I just figured that out, thanks, guys :)
17:16 rubenwardy when I think about remaking the main menu, I get mild burn out symptoms
17:16 copolymer__ also, minetest.org is worrisome, search engines display it's version of the modding book, rather than ruben's :/
17:17 rubenwardy yeah I've complained to Bing about that but they've not resolved it
17:18 rubenwardy Bing have blacklisted rubenwardy.com for some unknown reason
17:19 copolymer__ That's a bit annoying, especially since ddg gets its results from bing
17:20 rubenwardy yeah
17:20 rubenwardy It's been two months since I opened the support ticket
17:22 copolymer__ that sucks :/
17:23 copolymer__ I hope it gets resolved soon
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18:28 kilbith man my mods download counters are increasing pretty quick on CDB
18:28 kilbith wth is going on
18:28 MTDiscord <MisterE> kilbith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&amp;v=g6Fyav6FiIs&amp;feature=emb_logo
18:28 MTDiscord <MisterE> That is going on
18:30 MTDiscord <MisterE> It has 8.2 k likes and rising. We are about to test the integrity of minetest infrastructure XD
18:30 rubenwardy https://monitor.rubenwardy.com/d/3ELzFy3Wz/contentdb?orgId=1&amp;kiosk=tv&amp;from=now-24h&amp;to=now
18:30 kilbith 3.3M followers
18:30 kilbith ok yes that explain it
18:30 Krock goes brrrrrt
18:30 kilbith I do hope CDB can take the charge
18:30 Krock it's going to be a rather short peak though
18:32 definitelya_ MisterE[m]: So true lol
18:33 FreeFull Yeah, AntVenom is pretty popular
18:33 kilbith I'd make a business out of _physical_ Minetest modding book from now on
18:34 MTDiscord <MisterE> huh that might be pretty useful if it was detailed enought
18:34 FreeFull Unfortunately the popularity spike won't last
18:34 MTDiscord <MisterE> IDK, it could snowball with other youtubers creating vids
18:35 rubenwardy kilbith: I've had a print Minetest modding book as WIP for 5 years now, should probably finish it
18:35 kilbith the only thing I feel ashamed about in this video is the mainmenu
18:35 rubenwardy yeah
18:36 schwarzwald[m] Maybe I would see more what he's talking about if the high-level design of Minetest and its algorithm were actually documented somewhere.
18:37 schwarzwald[m] s/algorithm/algorithms/
18:38 schwarzwald[m] I'm not convinced at all that Minetest devs are doing a better job than Minecraft devs. Not enough information available to me to make a fair comparison, and I doubt that guy has that information available to him either.
19:01 Yad Where are we at with regard to "voxel area entities" these days? Is it possible to make a moving object (e.g. a vehicle such as a cruise ship) which moves but is itself made of nodes?
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19:01 MTDiscord <Jonathon> you can do node like entities batched tovether
19:02 MTDiscord <Jonathon> *together
19:02 Yad Jonathon: Sounds good, is there any documentation I can study to brush up on how to do this?
19:02 MTDiscord <Jonathon> lua api
19:03 MTDiscord <Jonathon> see ivae for mod library
19:04 rubenwardy https://github.com/greenxenith/lvae
19:04 Yad Ahhh, I thought that had to be a typo, thanks rubenwardy :D
19:05 rubenwardy well, it's L not I
19:05 rubenwardy for lua
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19:42 freshreplicant[m Are there any implemented vehicles with these area entities?
19:49 Krock area what?
19:53 freshreplicant[m Lua voxel area entities. I didn't want to type the whole thing. The mod that Ruben linked.
19:53 MTDiscord <Jonathon> no one has really used that library to make anything public
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19:54 MTDiscord <Jonathon> there is stus old abandoned mesh gen thing as well
19:54 MTDiscord <Jonathon> similar ish
19:58 freshreplicant[m I remember being on this Minecraft server years ago where you could build airships.
19:58 freshreplicant[m It was pretty janky, but still cool.
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20:27 MTDiscord <!~ 𝞿 Λtlantλs~!> I wonder what Minetest could do with $400 million a year
20:27 MTDiscord <MisterE> alot
20:27 rubenwardy that's an insane amount really
20:28 rubenwardy that could hire 4,400 mid-level programmers in the US, which is not a cheap country
20:28 MTDiscord <MisterE> why, you offering? 😛
20:30 MTDiscord <!~ 𝞿 Λtlantλs~!> I saw the video, I didn't think Microsoft was putting so much money into Minecraft 😄
20:38 Krock 90% customer support, 10% development at most
20:39 rubenwardy yeah, a lot of that will probably be support for education edition
20:48 MTDiscord <!~ 𝞿 Λtlantλs~!> oh okk x)
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22:08 sfan5 rubenwardy: we had the same idea about linking the other thread
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22:08 sfan5 feel free to delete mine
22:09 rubenwardy I thought it would be a good idea to focus conversation rather than fragmenting it. I would have merged the topics but I think it's better for the person to write their own reply
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22:40 skunky3 hey, are there any known autocompletion plugins for vim/neovim that work with minetests built in functions?
22:46 skunky3 ive been trying to find one for quite a while, but to no awail
22:48 sfan5 you can probably take a lua completion plugin and get the Minetest definitions in there
22:48 sfan5 IIRC someone had done it for notepad++ on the forums
22:48 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> I wrote an extension for VSCode that you might be able to take from (https://github.com/GreenXenith/minetest-tools)
22:49 sfan5 oh that's exactly what I would have needed last month
22:49 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> :]
22:52 sfan5 I think a crowd-sourced machine readable function definition table would be beneficial
22:52 sfan5 can be largely automated tho with some tricks
22:54 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> part of the goal for minetest-docs is to use a format that exports to an easy to parse format
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23:08 Yad rubenwardy: Well this is interesting... LVAE seems to be in an error state before I've even tried to call it? (I'm probably missing something basic) https://pastebin.com/RFAsKa5V
23:10 rubenwardy @GreenXenith your mod is broken on 5.5, missing dynamic_add_media callback
23:10 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> that is so vague
23:10 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down
23:11 rubenwardy dynamic_add_media now requires a callback to be passed to it. The mod is LVAE
23:11 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Ah, missed the pastebin
23:11 rubenwardy (it was deprecated in 5.4 and errored in 5.5)
23:11 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> give me a minute
23:13 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> all I need is a blank func yeah?
23:16 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Yad: Should be fixed
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23:31 Yad Oh hey, GreenXenith, thak you for all that you do!
23:32 Yad It's fun to meet my Lua heroes in here :D
23:32 Yad Oh hahha, you didn't see my PasteBin link? xD
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23:32 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Glad you enjoy my work :] Let me know if the fix doesnt work
23:38 Yad GreenXenith: Yes that appears to have fixed compatibility with my Minetest 5.5.0 — thank you! — open-source development for the win :D
23:38 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Wonderful!
23:38 Yad And thank you rubenwardy for interpreting my error message :-)
23:38 rubenwardy <3
23:39 Yad ^^v
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23:56 wallabra It'd be nice to have a separation between display name and registered name.
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