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IRC log for #minetest, 2022-07-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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02:43 cheapie Well, I decided to try 0.4.15 (the most promising-looking version I had sitting around) on an old XP box with a Transmeta Efficeon and Radeon VE - it actually runs kinda playably if I turn the settings _way_ down, about 10 FPS.
02:44 erle cheapie why would you have to set it *that* low
02:45 cheapie It's not real happy (lots of warnings in the logs, seeing as how the card only supports OpenGL 1.3) but I haven't actually seen any incorrect rendering.
02:45 erle how old is the computer anyway
02:45 cheapie Those are parts from about 2002.
02:45 cheapie And not even good ones for the time either :P
02:45 erle try the irrlicht demos on that hardware please
02:45 erle i wonder if it is because minetest renders shit or because old hw
02:46 cheapie Do you have a link to the demos you want me to try?
02:46 erle cheapie the one with the dwarf and the dynamic shadows and the particle system, wait i look for it
02:46 cheapie (and note that The Sims 2 runs at about 2 FPS on it in 800x600, so the old hardware is almost certainly most of it)
02:47 cheapie Just looked up the dates - CPU is from 2003, GPU is from 2001.
02:48 erle cheapie, this one https://github.com/zaki/irrlicht/blob/master/examples/08.SpecialFX/main.cpp
02:48 erle are you sure you are using openGL and not software rendering?
02:49 cheapie It is using hardware OpenGL. This performance is expected for hardware like this.
02:50 erle i have played earth 2150 on a system from 1999
02:50 erle i think it can be done better
02:50 cheapie As far as the demo goes... I don't see a precompiled version on there, and compiling anything on a CPU like this would be... painful, not to mention that it's currently running Windows XP and I would have to get the development environment working on that if I wanted to do so.
02:50 erle maybe it is windows? fleckenstein once tried minetest on the same hardware i use (thinkpad T60) on windows and found it was unplayable
02:51 erle of course you have to compile the irrlicht sdk
02:51 erle it will not take more than an hour i think
02:51 erle faster with -Ofast or so but then you get a slower binary
02:51 cheapie ...keep in mind what CPU this is.
02:52 erle well, i have no idea where there are precompiled versions of those things
02:56 cheapie I'll probably be trying Linux on it at some point eventually to see how that runs - if I do, I'll try out MT on there as well and see what happens, but don't expect much :P
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03:51 muurkha oh hi cheapie, nice to see you.  xentrac here
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09:11 bingfengzs hi
09:12 ROllerozxa hello
09:26 MarquisDeCate` howdy
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09:41 sfan5 erle: -Ofast is for making the binary fast (incl. things like unsafe math optimizations), for fast compile times use -O0
09:45 sfan5 turning warnings off also speeds up compilation
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11:56 mazes_83 erle: 5.5.0 is in testing, I just backported
12:00 mazes_83 erle: I'm a bit involved in gentoo packaging, and sincerelly do not feel ease with debian packaging, don't know nothing about their integration process, that's why I ask about file hosting minetest side
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12:57 CowboyLv Added screenshots for Extra Biomes
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15:02 independent56 Why does minetest hold so much in memeory after leaving a Multiplayer server?
15:03 independent56 https://i.imgur.com/6kocfII.png
15:03 independent56 The first drop is me leaving the server, the second me closing the client
15:04 independent56 what is it? (i know why; reduce future loading times in the same session)
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15:15 erle sfan5, oops thanks. but why would i ever want unsafe math optimizations?
15:16 erle independent56 i doubt this reduces loading times, i think it is just an artifact of not freeing memory right away.
15:16 independent56 Hmm
15:17 independent56 I've once left Minetest idle to watch Youtube videos and then i look and it's still the same high memory usage
15:17 erle you can join and leave different worlds. does the memory footprint rise each time? if so, memory leak.
15:17 independent56 Hmm, i'll try that
15:20 independent56 Does not seem to
15:21 independent56 But on rejoining my server, load times seem to be decreased slightly
15:21 erle how nuch
15:26 independent56 I'm not sure
15:26 independent56 Maybe there wasn't a reduction
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15:53 MTDiscord <SX> probably caching and fs buffers for caches affects rejoin most
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16:24 independent56 How do i close iron doors automatically as a mesecons signal turns off?
16:36 Krock have you tried turning it on and off again?
16:42 Krock if you need two positive edges to trigger it, you could use a delay circuit to multiply edges
16:45 independent56 I have, by walking on and off a presure plate
16:52 sfan5 I'm pretty sure that is supposed to work automatically
16:52 sfan5 update your mesecons version
16:54 independent56 i will
16:54 independent56 thanks
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17:29 independent56 Ugh, now i broke my server. Mesecons stopped working so advtrains turned to unknown nodes so my servercleaner "cleaned" it up
17:29 independent56 So now the BMIE has lost its trains.
17:31 independent56 And now i have to fix this
17:37 MTDiscord <SX> and after fixing it remove servercleaner? :p
17:40 MTDiscord <SX> Not exactly sure what servercleaner is but sounds like something that should be manually executed when it is needed instead of being automagic...
17:40 sfan5 agree
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17:45 muurkha independent56: oh no :(
17:45 independent56 yes, i should
17:45 muurkha do you have backups?
17:45 independent56 I used it to trim off unkown nodes
17:45 independent56 Yes, i have a 02:00 one at 56i.duckdns.org/world
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17:45 independent56 But it hasn't got the level crossing and factory i poured my heart over.
17:45 independent56 So i have decided to reconstruct the mesecons and train tracks
17:48 independent56 Server can now run
17:48 independent56 And hopefully with mesecons enables
17:49 independent56 Oh god no
17:50 independent56 Trains are running on ghost tracks
17:51 independent56 Is there a way to take two map.sqlites and then see if an air node in one of them is a solid block in another?
17:51 MTDiscord <Jonathon> or use at_sync_ndb to get rid of the ghost tracks
17:51 independent56 No
17:52 independent56 Because i'm scared
17:52 independent56 And also trains running on invisible tracks is cool
17:52 sfan5 "is there a way" yes
17:52 independent56 But the interlocking is going to scream at me.
17:52 sfan5 valuable advice: there is always a way, but often enough it is not feasible
17:52 independent56 ugh
17:52 independent56 I guess i'll have to learn SQL
17:53 sfan5 there's no sql to learn, minetest uses the db as a static key-value store
17:53 muurkha yeah, you aren't going to get very far trying to figure out which nodes are present with SQL
17:53 independent56 :-/
17:54 MTDiscord <luatic> independent56: You better learn C++
17:54 independent56 yeah
17:54 MTDiscord <luatic> Minetest stores mapblock blobs in the database
17:54 independent56 I guess it's not fasible
17:54 sfan5 it's feasible
17:54 MTDiscord <luatic> It isn't. Unless there are some good libraries for dealing with MT's map format.
17:55 definitelya Just make backups next time, fam. It's always worth it.
17:55 sfan5 there might be one in go
17:55 independent56 definitelya, i have, but they're approaching 12 hours age
17:55 sfan5 but changing the minetestmapper source to do what you want wouldn't be that hard
17:55 independent56 acc no passed it
17:56 independent56 Hmm, seems smart until you realise i make maps at 04:00 in the morning, way before i spilt my heart into a factory and level crossings
17:56 independent56 I'll just reconstruct i guess
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17:57 MTDiscord <Jonathon> save the build as schemes/worldedit files, restore backup, paste them back in
17:57 sfan5 ^ this is much easier
17:57 independent56 Ah, thanks
17:57 MTDiscord <Jonathon> if there big, use one of the mapsizing alternatives since worldedit is bloated
17:57 MTDiscord <Jonathon> *mapsaving mod alternatives
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18:06 independent56 But now the doors close properly!
18:06 independent56 Thank u'all
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18:50 independent56 BREAKING: Super glow glass found to contain "copious" amounts of Uranium according to scientists
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18:58 MTDiscord <luatic> Doesn't Uranium usually glow green (i.e. a single wavelength or a couple discrete wavelenghts)? The yellow light super glow glass seems to emit on the other hand is a continuous spectrum like that of a light bulb, containing pretty much all wavelengths. This doesn't necessarily exclude Uranium as an ingredient, but Uranium decay as the only source of the spectrum is next to impossible (unless the glowing comes from the glow glass being
18:58 MTDiscord heated as the Uranium decays).
18:59 sfan5 does uranium glow at all?
19:07 independent56 Hmm
19:07 independent56 Maybe the world is constantly struck by UV from the sun
19:08 independent56 uranium glass glows green on UV
19:08 independent56 Still, i'd be careful
19:09 independent56 How do torches burn forever?
19:09 independent56 Voodo, i say. Who's to say glow glass isn't bringing black magic into our homes?
19:09 sfan5 mese channels its energy to torches
19:09 independent56 We must all bow down to our overlords, mese
19:09 independent56 We must thank it for providing eternal light
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19:30 muurkha luatic: uranium oxide is fluorescent in green but I don't think it's a single wavelength
19:30 definitelya independent56: Satanic mod idea: you get banned on the server, you get banned from real life, and sent into a Minetest mod soup world.
19:31 sfan5 mmm soup
19:31 definitelya :P
19:31 muurkha also in general solid-state things and glasses tend to have much wider spectral line widths than gases
19:32 muurkha are you looking at a spectogram of this super glow glass?  because you can't really tell by looking at a glow whether it's a continuous spectrum or just two or three wavelengths
19:32 muurkha if you have uranium in something then after a few million years you'll have the whole uranium decay chain, and some of the decay chain elements are a lot more active at stimulating phosphors (such as uranium oxide) than uranium itself is
19:33 muurkha uranium metal doesn't glow at all (unless it's incandescent, of course)
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19:44 MTDiscord <luatic> muurkha: White light always is a continuous spectrum
19:55 muurkha luatic: you can define "white light" to mean "a continuous spectrum", but there are lots of spectra that are very far from continuous that look white to eyes and RGB cameras
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19:56 muurkha take a look at spectra of "white" fluorescent lights and LED bulbs online, for example
19:58 muurkha they're not "white" in the sense of being a continuous spectrum but you can't tell by looking at the light
19:58 muurkha sometimes you can tell by looking at things illuminated by them because they look the wrong color
19:58 muurkha this is low "CRI", "color rendering index"
20:12 independent56 BREAKING: Spectral lines of all glowing Minetest nodes seem to exactly be Red, Green, and Blue, indicating a single radioactive element in all bright objects
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20:27 MinetestBot [git] x2048 -> minetest/minetest: Release shadow mapping resources when not needed (#12497) 7c26111 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/7c261118e06c630ea9ad00f20d7005b8edc108dd (2022-07-09T20:26:39Z)
20:30 muurkha heh
20:32 MinetestBot [git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: Enforce limits of settings that could cause buggy behaviour (#12450) 051181f https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/051181fa6ee00d8379e8a7dc7442b58342d4352b (2022-07-09T20:32:08Z)
20:34 MinetestBot [git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: Sounds: Various little improvements (#12486) e51f474 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/e51f474613c5d4bd53a8d213785bcb51f5cf447f (2022-07-09T20:32:24Z)
20:34 MinetestBot [git] AFCMS -> minetest/minetest: Make `VoxelArea:position()` return a vector with metatable (#12521) fae8726 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/fae8726a769f9ad3bb81bf3e364265662d333dd0 (2022-07-09T20:32:33Z)
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21:36 MTDiscord <luatic> yay!
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21:58 independent56 If you fell and somehow landed in a boat, sitting and ready to control, would you sustain fall damage?
22:01 MTDiscord <luatic> independent56: If you mean right-clicking the boat and receiving the attachment command before you hit the boat: Yes. Since there is no proper clientside prediction though, there's a decent chance that you die attached to the boat.
22:01 sfan5 attaching somewhere erases velocity
22:01 independent56 hmm
22:01 independent56 Thats why boarding a train at full speed doesn't kill me
22:01 MTDiscord <luatic> BTW sfan5: Why are only a select few player properties serialized? I find it out that current velocity isn't serialized. This allows evading death simply by rejoining.
22:01 sfan5 not sure I get luatic's comment about clientside prediction, fall damage is entirely client-side
22:02 sfan5 dunno
22:02 MTDiscord <luatic> find it odd*
22:02 sfan5 oh actually here's the reason: there's no way to give the client its velocity back
22:02 MTDiscord <luatic> But there is with add_velocity
22:02 sfan5 that's recent
22:02 sfan5 relatively
22:02 MTDiscord <luatic> Modding time :)
22:03 MTDiscord <luatic> Or engine time?
22:03 sfan5 hm
22:03 MTDiscord <luatic> sfan5: Yes, that's the point - there's no proper clientside prediction for the attaching to the boat, so the server sends the attach command, you die of fall damage, you receive the attach command.
22:04 sfan5 oh, that
22:04 sfan5 yes
22:04 MTDiscord <luatic> sfan5: I'll open an issue
22:08 MTDiscord <luatic> #12525
22:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12525 -- Preserve player velocity
22:08 MTDiscord <luatic> that's a nice number
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