Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest, 2022-03-16

| Channels | #minetest index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:17 v-rob joined #minetest
00:28 Verticen joined #minetest
00:28 Samson1 Is there a way to reset the mapgen?
00:28 erlehmann joined #minetest
00:31 Gustavo6046 joined #minetest
00:32 Samson1 I just invalidated map.sqlite and the world is empty.
00:47 erlehmann joined #minetest
00:57 Samson1 Okay, where in the map files is the map gen stated?
00:58 Samson1 In Minecraft the mapgen can be changed via a .conf both in the server and map.
01:08 Yad Samson1: I'm not sure what you mean...if map.squlite is gone, it will be regenerated, no?
01:10 Samson1 No.
01:10 Samson1 Yad I suspect that the mapgen has been overridden so the map won't generate as it expects a mapgen that doesn't exist.
01:29 v-rob joined #minetest
01:30 asdflkj_sh joined #minetest
01:31 proller joined #minetest
01:33 luk3yx joined #minetest
01:55 Hawk777 joined #minetest
02:20 kamdard joined #minetest
02:53 grouinos joined #minetest
03:00 Gustavo6046 ooooh https://github.com/distil/rust_lua_ffi
03:15 v-rob joined #minetest
03:18 erlehmann joined #minetest
04:00 MTDiscord joined #minetest
05:20 v-rob joined #minetest
05:56 search_social joined #minetest
05:58 Lesha joined #minetest
06:25 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest
06:27 v-rob joined #minetest
06:50 calcul0n joined #minetest
07:01 lemonzest joined #minetest
07:11 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest
07:46 v-rob joined #minetest
08:33 Sven_vB joined #minetest
09:01 sfan5 !tell Samson1 map_meta.txt has what you're looking for, it's the mg_name setting
09:01 MinetestBot sfan5: I'll pass that on when Samson1 is around
09:05 queria joined #minetest
09:12 Oksanaaa joined #minetest
09:14 Samson1 joined #minetest
09:14 MinetestBot Samson1: Mar-16 09:01 UTC <sfan5> map_meta.txt has what you're looking for, it's the mg_name setting
09:28 Samson1 sfan5 Thanks! I got it generating again however MT refilled the file with more wrong settings. Eek!
09:31 sfan5 you probably have a mod that sets whatever it thinks is right
09:34 Samson1 Hm, okay.
09:34 Samson1 I just took all of the mods off and it's still doing it.
09:35 Samson1 'mg_biome_np_' is a mapgen isn't it?
09:35 Samson1 And I want 'mgv6_np_' right?
09:36 sfan5 ah well it puts preset settings for all of the mapgens in there
09:36 sfan5 what matters is what mg_name is set to
09:36 Samson1 Wait, now I'm confused. I just deleted it and the new one is using V7? V7 didn't exist when this world was made.
09:37 sfan5 by the way to preserve correct mapgen you want to keep at least the 'seed' setting, so don't delete map meta outright
09:38 Samson1 It's fine, I have backups and I cloned my MT folder hehe.
09:39 Samson1 Is there anywhere I could post the file? I only understand a little of what everything is.
09:40 Samson1 How it works that is, I know what the variables are.
09:40 Samson1 It's 'mg_biome'.
09:41 sfan5 mg_biome is not a map generator
09:41 Samson1 Not a default one at least..
09:41 sfan5 no, it's not one
09:41 Samson1 Oh, okay.
09:41 sfan5 the 'np' stands for noise parameters and it contains information about the way biomes are generated, this information is used by multiple map generators
09:41 Samson1 Aah.
09:42 Samson1 Um, how would I got about putting a mapgen in it? Seeing as MT replaces the files.
09:42 specing joined #minetest
09:43 sfan5 if you want to restore map generation you should take the file you had before and ensure mg_name is set to the right mapgen (v6 as you said) and not e.g. singlenode
09:43 Samson1 Oooh, that's the location? Okay, one sec..
09:43 sfan5 what Minetest does to the rest of the parameters is not a problem/relevant
09:44 sfan5 you can use pastebin.com for (text) file posting btw
09:45 Samson1 Minetest didn't like me changing it from '= singlenode' to '= V6'
09:46 sfan5 the v should be lowercase
09:47 Samson1 Just trying it again.
09:50 Samson1 Okay, how do I put the pastebin here?
09:51 Oblomov paste the link you get after saving the pastebin
09:56 Samson1 This? https://pastebin.com/50Aps2Wb
09:59 Oblomov Samson1: exactly
10:01 sfan5 looks correct to me
10:02 Samson1 Hmm, okay. Well that's all well and good now, but I still can't get the map to generate.
10:02 sfan5 try //deleteblocks on the area again
10:03 Samson1 I've been doing it in chunks that already exist, nothing.
10:04 Samson1 No wait! It's working!!
10:06 erlehmann joined #minetest
10:09 Samson1 Thanks so much!
10:15 Samson1 Hmm, //fixlight isn't working now, it isn't working in the new chunks.
10:19 sfan5 you often have to make the region much bigger than the light bug itself
10:20 Samson1 Ah, okay.
10:24 Samson1 In this case it's all of the newly generated blocks.
10:41 erlehmann joined #minetest
10:45 hlqkj joined #minetest
10:46 Samson1 sfan5 Is there any way of fixing the lights with a mod?
11:01 erlehmann joined #minetest
11:08 Markow joined #minetest
11:13 Samson17 joined #minetest
11:37 sfan5 didn't it work with worldedit
11:37 sfan5 ?
11:37 Samson17 No.
11:38 Samson17 In fact it's making it worse in some areas.
11:38 Samson17 :(
11:39 Samson17 There's more black in the map than any other colour now.
11:40 Samson17 And the gen suddenly decided to make a huge region a snowy biome for some reason, so I have a lot of fixing to do..
11:43 MTDiscord joined #minetest
11:44 erlehmann joined #minetest
12:17 definitelya joined #minetest
12:33 Fixer joined #minetest
12:41 Fixer joined #minetest
12:50 proller joined #minetest
12:51 erlehmann joined #minetest
12:52 definitelya_ joined #minetest
12:55 neko2 joined #minetest
13:01 neko2 hiya all. so I was pondering a thought experiment for a mod involving falling nodes being more useful in contraptions this morning. I realised I'd need some way to have a callback occur _specifically_ when a node turns into a falling node entity. do such callbacks currently exist at all? (I don't see mention of such a thing in the api. I figured maybe a removal callback might fire though, guess I'd have
13:01 neko2 to check that in-game)
13:12 cation21 joined #minetest
13:12 mrgreymatter joined #minetest
13:26 Oblomov sometimes I really wish MT had an in-game top-down view
13:26 neko2 Oblomov: you mean, not the minimap?
13:27 Oblomov I don't mean like the map, I mean for the game itself
13:27 InFerNo__ My kids play Minetest with me on our local LAN server, but they have discovered that they can join online server, they're still too young so I would like to block that, does anyone know what address or IP I can block to prevent Minetest from getting the list of available servers?
13:27 Oblomov you know like you can change the camera?
13:27 Oblomov have one with the camera right above you
13:27 Oblomov fixed
13:28 neko2 Oblomov: I don't know of a way to fixate the camera that wouldn't interfere with some mods for animated player models (the head would be stuck facing downwards)
13:28 Oblomov neko2: MT already has views that are from outside
13:28 Oblomov it shouldn't be too hard to add one at a fixed distance from the player
13:28 Oblomov but on top and looking down
13:29 neko2 Oblomov: well I mean. you can do that already. but mods assume the look direction is tied to the player's view in some way.
13:29 Oblomov so the mouse keeps controlling the character's heading, but the camera doesn't move, only changes xz coords when the player moves, and y coordinates when it goes up/down
13:30 Oblomov neko2: you mean for texts and the like?
13:30 neko2 Oblomov: texts? I don't think I understand where you got that from
13:30 Oblomov neko2: I don't see how the camera position and orientation would effect mods, which are server-side
13:33 Oblomov InFerNo__: by default the server list is fetched from servers.minetest.net, but blocking that won't prevent them from accessing outside servers if they know the url/port
13:34 Oblomov InFerNo__: you want something more drastic, like preventing all out-of-lan connections from minetest
13:35 neko2 Oblomov: cos the client is currently obligated to send the camera look direction to the server. and mods bake that assumption in, so some thing that add custom aim/control mechanisms would totally break if the client camera doesn't align with what is reported by get_look_dir() and so forth on the server.
13:36 Oblomov neko2: the client could still send the “camera look”, except that instead of being a camera look it would be a virtual look direction
13:36 neko2 Oblomov: read what I said more carefully, that could break things
13:37 neko2 what you ask for could be done, it'd just also be a potential api break
13:37 neko2 which means it's not as simple as one would like to think
13:38 Oblomov neko2: I still don't see how. it simply means that the player looking direction would be disconnected from the camera direction. the behavior related to the looking direction would remain exactly the same
13:38 Oblomov e.g. aiming, reach etc
13:38 Oblomov they would simply apply to the player look dir rather than the camera di
13:38 neko2 Oblomov: some mods will be working on the assumption that "look dir = where the real human player is looking/seeing", changing that is an API break
13:39 neko2 there's currently only one variable for mods, with two meanings mixed together
13:39 neko2 separating them is an api break
13:39 Oblomov mods don't need to access the camera dir
13:39 Oblomov they only need to care about the player's look dir
13:39 Oblomov and the client can then remap all info derived from it into the camera space
13:39 neko2 Oblomov: except they already do that, and are free to assume that, because that's how it's always been (and what look_dir currently means)
13:40 Oblomov neko2: and what I'm saying is that I would like to have a camera view setting where the camera view is detached and fixed
13:40 Oblomov nothing would break
13:40 neko2 mods _already_ assume look_dir = player's view dir, so decoupling that has breakage potential.
13:41 Oblomov there is no decoupling
13:41 Oblomov look_dir will remain the player's view dir
13:41 Oblomov the CAMERA view dir would be detached
13:42 Oblomov which is a client-only thing
13:42 _Zaizen_[m]1 joined #minetest
13:43 neko2 evidently you've never looked into weeping angel mods... when I say view dir I mean camera dir. mods can assume currently that get_look_dir is _both_ where the player is aiming/pointing _and_ where the client side camera is looking. you may not like it, but they can do that right now. your feature request would break that, so it'd be an api break.
13:45 Oblomov neko2: would still work exactly the same way
13:45 Oblomov when the player is looking at the angel it doesn't move, when the player is looking away it starts chaing
13:45 Oblomov chasing
13:45 Oblomov literally nothing changes
13:46 Oblomov you don't even need to update the stuff outside of the player's view angle. fog-of-war
13:47 neko2 Oblomov: but for that to work mods need to decouple their sense of "what the human can see" from "the player's position and their look_dir()", also an API break
13:47 Oblomov hm no?
13:48 Oblomov this is handled entirely client side
13:48 neko2 Oblomov: but hypothetical weeping angels aren't ;)
13:48 Oblomov neko2: so what?
13:48 Oblomov neko2: the meaning of look_dir doesn't change
13:48 Oblomov it's still controlled exactly the same way
13:49 Oblomov something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bUuyYBjXWg
13:49 neko2 either: the server knows, code has to change to know where the detached camera is: API break via function calls. or: it's client side only, and suddenly the mod doesn't know the player can see "behind" where the player's avatar is: the mod falls apart. API breakage by behavioural change.
13:50 Oblomov neko2: the player still cannot see behind
13:50 Oblomov watchthe video I linked
13:50 neko2 Oblomov: so what, you intend to just arbitrarily restrict instead?
13:50 Oblomov restrict what?
13:50 neko2 the camera angles, such that the player can't see behind them
13:51 neko2 arbitrary restrictions don't make for good engine features
13:51 Oblomov wtf
13:51 Oblomov the camera angle is fixed on top
13:51 Oblomov but the rendered scene only includes what's in the player's view angle
13:51 _Zaizen_[m]1 Hi everyone does anyone know where is located the code that renders the client chat?
13:51 Oblomov neko2: did you watch the video I inked?
13:52 Oblomov have you ever played a top-down 2D stealth game or something like that?
13:52 neko2 Oblomov: no, because even from your description that's still a weird restriction (and now it _also_ requires changes to the renderer, that's likely gonna result in the feature not happening)
13:53 neko2 scope creep in general makes things less likely to happen.
13:53 Oblomov there is no restriction
13:55 neko2 Oblomov: minetest's render code has no concept of culling things out that are on-screen but _not_ in an arbitrary FOV cone. that would require a lot of non-trivial work, compared to your original description that sounded more akin to server-controlled freecam (it would _have_ to be server dictated else the client could just freecam to look through walls)
13:56 neko2 (I think it optimises not rendering mapblocks behind you in a coarse fashion and maybe some you definitely can't see anyhow, but it's fairly conservative.)
13:58 neko2 so like. it's either, a simpler idea of server-controlled freecam that is probably doable but would be API break, whether implied or explicit. or, a more complicated feature requiring renderer work which... I don't think is gonna happen, unless you're willing to put in the elbow grease yourself
14:04 GNUHacker joined #minetest
14:08 neko2 generally worth remembering anything requiring custom draw/render logic is likely gonna be a no unless you can figure it yourself. (and, if it involves low level specialty code, which I suggest a stealth-game-type FOV render cone would require, also making sure it works within the confines of irrlicht)
14:20 erlehmann joined #minetest
14:25 kamdard joined #minetest
14:28 erlehmann <neko2> mods _already_ assume look_dir = player's view dir, so decoupling that has breakage potential.
14:28 Noisytoot joined #minetest
14:28 erlehmann i disagree neko2
14:28 erlehmann there is already third person backwards view
14:29 erlehmann also cheat clients have had CSM cam for a while as far as i know
14:30 erlehmann Oblomov are you using dragonfire or waspsaliva? surely you can figure it out
14:30 erlehmann and before someone comes with “uh, looking behind walls is cheating” … you know about shadows? people can look around corners using shadows, i.e. infer if someone is there.
14:31 erlehmann also people use third person view to spy around corners all the time
14:32 erlehmann InFerNo__ regarding playing offline just use some firewall thing and ONLY allow the LAN server port 30000
14:33 erlehmann InFerNo__ alternatively, i suggest to play with your kids on an online server together. that way you can supervise them.
14:33 erlehmann and also have some family fun
14:35 erlehmann i have met people who played on the same server as their parents. or in one case, a player was playing on the same server with grandpa.
14:35 erlehmann also you can disable chat with f2
14:36 erlehmann InFerNo__ the server list comes from https://servers.minetest.net/list but you should know that kids are smart and will find ways around it. for example, they can just input the hostname or IP and port directly.
14:37 erlehmann i was a little kid once and tricked my parents and teachers regarding computer stuff!
14:43 Oblomov erlehmann: I'm not using dragonfire or waspsaliva
14:44 erlehmann Oblomov try it out. you might find some stuff useful for vanilla minetest.
14:44 erlehmann for example, last night on a test server for mineclone2 i lagged out when cora produced a lot of particles.
14:44 erlehmann cora did not lag out though, because waspsaliva allows turning particle rendering off
14:45 neko2 erlehmann: fair enough, my weeping angel example is refuted. I still think though the general concept is either "small API feature that incurs breakage no matter how you do it" for the simplest version, or "non-trivial renderer change" if you want the fancy version)
14:45 erlehmann neko2 what?
14:46 erlehmann there is no breakage from allowing more camera angles
14:46 erlehmann players can already see behind them and i have been using it every time someone is asked to follow
14:46 erlehmann to see if they are still keeping up
14:47 erlehmann you know, it can take half an hour to walk to some point in a map
14:47 erlehmann more even
14:47 erlehmann if it is not straight terrain
14:47 neko2 erlehmann: the original question wasn't about seeing behind, it was about fixed top-down decoupled from what the player was pointing at.
14:47 erlehmann that should be easily possible with dragonfire/waspsaliva
14:47 erlehmann with no API breakage i assume
14:48 neko2 you got a link to those? I'm curious to see what it is they're doing (and whether it's actually a massive hack)
14:49 neko2 erlehmann:
14:49 erlehmann neko2 https://repo.or.cz/waspsaliva.git
14:50 erlehmann https://repo.or.cz/waspsaliva.git/commitdiff/9633ad122b4b0f90fa937a0f0df38e488344ddec?hp=b4e475726b0793af1338f0618fac29e4fef69098
14:50 erlehmann fleckenstein made this freecam cheat
14:52 erlehmann neko2, wrong commit, look here: https://repo.or.cz/waspsaliva.git/commitdiff/5a8610c2f41e44c827912246b4f9437051d11621?hp=83f59484d3b03e8964f1c7886dd1a0afd96ddd8d
14:53 erlehmann look for toggleFreecam
14:53 erlehmann surely you can modify this to get a nice top down view
14:53 neko2 oh, so that's not actually a mod, just a client side hack. in which case morals aside, the breaking of any assumptions a mod may make about the actually reported look dir is completely on you and unspecified behaviour. I thought we were talking about a feature one could pragmatically expect to get upstreamed.
14:54 erlehmann i am pretty sure if you make a non-cheaty version of this you can try to get it upstreamed
14:54 erlehmann like, obviously it is cheaty to clip through everything
14:54 erlehmann maybe you should first specify your requirements
14:55 neko2 to be clear, I am not saying "possible breakage means this never gets done"; I am merely saying be prepared for it to be modified/tweaked to take into account core dev concerns.
14:55 erlehmann and again the avatar looks in one direction, the player looks somewhere else
14:57 Oblomov erlehmann: my requirements would be to have something like what intravenous does
14:57 erlehmann what is that
14:58 Oblomov erlehmann:  see e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlpilOqlLiY
14:58 Fixer joined #minetest
14:59 Oblomov you still keep your FOV (can use fog-of-war for “not visible anymore stuff”
14:59 Oblomov player-wise, of course
14:59 Oblomov character-wise, to be specific
14:59 Oblomov but you have a top-down view of your surrounding (think minimap when in the open)
15:02 Oblomov the only “cheating” would be that overhead blocks would have to be semi-transparent to show where the user is etc
15:05 erlehmann that's cheating for me
15:05 erlehmann but Oblomov try to experiment with freecam
15:06 Oblomov what's “cheating” about semi-transparent or invisible overhead blocks?
15:06 Oblomov you can make it fully transparent too if they are out of sight
15:07 erlehmann wallhack
15:07 erlehmann also overhead cam means you can look around corners
15:08 Gustavo6046 joined #minetest
15:10 Oblomov how is it a wallhack to not render the blocks above?
15:10 Oblomov when you're not looking at them? or make the first layer semi-transparent (see through in the direction towards the player)
15:11 Oblomov it doesn't reveal anything
15:12 erlehmann it reveals what is behind
15:12 Oblomov no, it doesn't
15:13 Oblomov visible block = semi-transparent (so that you can stil see the player), non-visible block = not-rendered
15:13 neko2 Oblomov: I already told you, dynamic hiding of things "behind" the logical FoV of the player avatar isn't gonna happen, you'll need something simpler
15:13 Oblomov the point is that “what is behind” (camera-wise) is the player
15:14 Oblomov neko2: for those you can use fog of war
15:14 Oblomov render them at the last state they were in when seen, until brought back into view
15:15 v-rob joined #minetest
15:16 neko2 Oblomov: I see... so... you gonna write the code for that? because in practice the core devs are unlikely to have time for any nontrivial rendering logic changes (trivial is being used in a programmer's sense here), especially figuring out how to make that fit the holes irrlicht wants everything to fit into
15:17 Oblomov neko2: no, I just expressed a wish
15:17 Oblomov and you dragged the discussion on for hours
15:18 neko2 Oblomov: because your initial description was vague, and hid that what you wanted was way more complex than initially suggested.
15:19 neko2 I was giving suggestion based on a reasonable assumption of a simple initial idea before it blew up, that's on you
15:19 neko2 (reasonable assumption = trying to figure out what you meant)
15:20 neko2 so sure, a wish, fair enough, don't pin this on me though
15:45 neko2 left #minetest
15:51 erlehmann Oblomov are you trying the freecam?
16:10 v-rob joined #minetest
16:13 Yad joined #minetest
16:19 definitelya__ joined #minetest
16:59 grouinos joined #minetest
17:11 jonadab Pexin: Oh, hmm, 2011 is far more recent than I was thinking.  I think most RDBMSes had transactions at that point; I think even MySQL had them by then.
17:11 jonadab Not sure about SQLite.
17:20 Oblomov erlehmann: I'm not going to build a fork of minetest just to try the freecam
17:21 erlehmann your loss
17:30 Samson1 joined #minetest
17:48 v-rob joined #minetest
17:51 Samson1 joined #minetest
17:57 Verticen joined #minetest
18:08 Sven_vB joined #minetest
18:11 grouinos joined #minetest
18:12 chilledfrogs joined #minetest
18:12 MTDiscord <luatic> sfan5: I've found https://minetest-mods.github.io, but I don't see any particular application process there.
18:17 MTDiscord <threehymns> https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&amp;t=13839 was posted by sofar
18:17 MTDiscord <luatic> Yeah, I'm aware
18:17 MTDiscord <luatic> That's linked on the site
18:17 MTDiscord <threehymns> I would try contacting him
18:17 MTDiscord <luatic> But a quick Ctrl + F doesn't bring up something either
18:18 MTDiscord <luatic> Nah, sofar is only infrequently active
18:18 * sofar waves
18:18 MTDiscord <threehymns> Last active yesterday on the forums...
18:18 MTDiscord <luatic> oh hey
18:18 MTDiscord <threehymns> Oh wait, that was actually a month ago
18:18 MTDiscord <threehymns> Feb, not Mar
18:19 appguru joined #minetest
18:19 appguru So you were just lurking all the time it seems
18:19 sofar I'm right here
18:19 appguru Alright sofar, I'd like to apply for minetest-mods membership
18:20 sofar https://github.com/minetest-mods/minetest-mods.github.io/issues
18:20 sofar open a ticket there
18:23 appguru sofar: alright, https://github.com/minetest-mods/minetest-mods.github.io/issues/118
18:24 MTDiscord <threehymns> sofar: I love your skybox mod
18:32 grouinos joined #minetest
19:14 sobkas joined #minetest
19:17 proller joined #minetest
19:18 lemonzest joined #minetest
19:22 erlehmann joined #minetest
19:33 Samson1 joined #minetest
19:35 independent56 joined #minetest
19:36 independent56 it turns out that all my problems with running out of memory were fixed by setting the mapgen block limit to around 1000.
19:36 independent56 Yes, it does sometimes lag, but that's fine
19:36 proller joined #minetest
19:38 erlehmann joined #minetest
19:45 v-rob joined #minetest
20:11 valhalla joined #minetest
20:12 _Zaizen_[m]1 <_Zaizen_[m]1> "Hi everyone does anyone know..." <- Does anyone have some info about this? thanks
20:14 rubenwardy not sure, but I'm guessing chat.cpp or hud.cpp
20:14 rubenwardy also, this rarely happens in this direction, but #minetest-dev :D
20:15 rubenwardy for any more questions
20:18 rubenwardy chat.cpp/h generates an enriched string which is then passed to GameUI::setChatText
20:18 rubenwardy and displayed in m_guitext_chat
20:18 rubenwardy _Zaizen_[m]1:
20:19 rubenwardy src/client/gameui.cpp:229
20:19 _Zaizen_[m]1 rubenwardy: Oh sorry for that, next time I wil use that chat!
20:19 _Zaizen_[m]1 rubenwardy: Thanks!
20:20 rubenwardy I'm guessing you're adding a background option
20:20 _Zaizen_[m]1 rubenwardy: Zughy*
20:48 independent_ joined #minetest
21:03 erlehmann is it possible to place unknown nodes in the world by means of a voxelmanip or something?
21:06 sfan5 probably
21:13 MTDiscord <luatic> Just using a content ID for which there is no node should work.
21:14 sfan5 well not really, every node must have a name, even if it's unknown
21:14 sfan5 but you might be able to use an ID that's already allocated for an unknown node
21:15 sfan5 but I don't know how far the code checks stuff anyway
21:17 LibreGNU joined #minetest
21:31 cation21 joined #minetest
21:38 Gustavo6046 joined #minetest
21:39 v-rob joined #minetest
21:41 cation21 joined #minetest
21:43 specing joined #minetest
22:16 erlehmann joined #minetest
22:30 Hawker joined #minetest
22:30 Hawker hey
22:31 Hawker Glad to be here
22:36 Taoki joined #minetest
22:46 erlehmann joined #minetest
22:49 v-rob joined #minetest
22:51 Pexin rubenwardy: (...)this rarely happens in this direction(...)   XD
22:56 Samson1 joined #minetest
22:58 Samson1 I have a question, more about MT as a community if anything. Would MT players donate to keep a server they like running?
22:59 MTDiscord <Jonathon> depends how popular it is, and how much you promote the donation link
23:01 Pexin bearing in mind it's pretty hard to build a community on a given server. if you have 5 semi-regular players total (not online at the same time -- total) you are doing quite well
23:02 erlehmann Samson1 people do donate to keep a server running, yes
23:02 erlehmann Samson1 i have seen more servers go down from demotivated or rogue admins than from lack of funding so far
23:03 MTDiscord <Warr1024> It can be very irregular.  You can have hundreds of players who wouldn't (or even can't) pay a dime, and then one generous donor who will pay the entire hosting cost.
23:03 kamdard joined #minetest
23:03 erlehmann on clamity you'd get a colored username tag for having donated
23:06 Samson1 Oh, I forgot that coloured usernames are a thing now.
23:07 Samson1 Yeah, I think what I will do is 'trial' host on my Pi for a day or two and see how it goes, what do you think?
23:08 MTDiscord <Jonathon> your unlikely to get much of anything
23:08 MTDiscord <Jonathon> unless you do heavy recruiting
23:08 Samson1 recruiting?
23:08 MTDiscord <Jonathon> see serverlists stats, rounded to a whole person, there is about one person for every server on the list on average
23:08 Samson1 Mm, yeah.
23:09 MTDiscord <Jonathon> recruiting == go annoy people on discord/irc/matrix/the forums with your cool new server, why they should try it, etc
23:09 Verticen joined #minetest
23:10 MTDiscord <Jonathon> and note that probably 1/4 to 1/8 of those players arent even comming from minetest itself, despite the minetest serverlist being obviously biased against it
23:11 Samson1 I successfully got most of Minetest back in the day on my server and it saw a couple of weeks of almost 30 plus players, until that old sodding Areas bug enabled griefers to ruin everything. 😂I doubt I'd be that lucky again.
23:11 erlehmann Samson1 if you want a server that is unique, make one with repixture. it is the one high-profile game that is lacking a server.
23:11 rubenwardy took CTF months to get any players, and CTF isn't yet another survival/creative sandbox
23:11 v-rob joined #minetest
23:11 erlehmann also it is relatively peaceful
23:12 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Recruiting will draw in people faster than just waiting, but you have to be careful not to annoy people to the point you get in trouble for it.  You CAN pick up some traffic just from sitting in the server list, but if you're hoping that turns into funding, expect that to take months, if your server is spectacularly unique and engaging, and years otherwise...
23:12 MTDiscord <Jonathon> cough repixture also needs namespacing bad
23:12 erlehmann never going to happen
23:12 Samson1 I'm not familiar with MT game modes, my server isn't like anything in existence in MT though, and I can promise you that. The only thing is, is it a little to different? You know?
23:12 erlehmann well how is it different?
23:13 Samson1 pffff, erm.
23:13 erlehmann or to be meaner: why would anyone want to play there?
23:13 MTDiscord <Warr1024> A lot of us have heard "completely unlike anything else out there" a lot of times from various people who ran stuff that was completely like everything else out there, so don't be too shocked at the skepticism :-|
23:14 MTDiscord <Warr1024> "why would anyone want to play there?" <-- actually having an elevator pitch on hand is probably a good idea in general...
23:15 Samson1 Full texture overhaul, gameplay overhaul, some lighting, unique map that's beautiful, 100% family friendly environment and ruled with an iron fist. Focused purely on community, economy, medieval/fantasy building and development.
23:15 Samson1 Partly a synopsis, partly not.
23:15 erlehmann ok do it
23:16 erlehmann but “family friendly and ruled with an iron fist” probably needs some brainwashing before ppl like it lol
23:16 erlehmann or your propaganda needs to tone it down
23:17 erlehmann how about ”ruled with a big soft fluffy hand”
23:17 MTDiscord <Warr1024> "not like anything in existence" ... and yet the actual product sounds like another soup server, with a lot of the same goals as others.  Since your concept is very run-of-the-mill, if you want to attract funding, you'll have to knock it out when it comes to execution.
23:19 Samson1 Well, maybe I can sell it like this: after an awful lot of bans and kicks a new wave of people started coming and were scared of me, but after a short time of asking me whether it was okay if they did this or that, they came to realise that I meant 'I don't care what you do so long as it's within the rules' quite literally. After a while it was
23:19 Samson1 almost like those same players felt completely immune from administration and did what they liked, plus the team helped them with stuff and assisted when they needed. A community grew who I also never saw on any other server weirdly. People from all ages as well. My mind's foggy though, it was many years ago.
23:21 Samson1 erlehmann Hehe, you need to can that phrase!
23:21 Samson1 In all seriousness though, I am being literal but it is a blunt way of putting it.
23:23 Samson1 Oooh! Repixture! I know that, made by Kaadmy right? Or is that the original modpack, I forget.
23:23 rubenwardy Pixture was by kaadmy
23:23 rubenwardy Repixture is a maintained fork
23:24 erlehmann look just make a repixture server and you'll see players
23:24 MTDiscord <Jonathon> its wuzzys remake for 5.x
23:24 Samson1 Aah, okay.
23:24 erlehmann it's different enough from normal mod soup
23:24 erlehmann and different enough from the mineclones
23:24 MTDiscord <Jonathon> erlehmann: false, there has been at least two in the past two years
23:24 MTDiscord <Jonathon> both failed
23:24 erlehmann Jonathon, oh!
23:24 erlehmann failed, as in?
23:24 MTDiscord <Jonathon> shut down, mainly because no point in keeping them open
23:24 MTDiscord <Jonathon> interestingly, both where run by outsiders
23:25 Samson1 I'll have to bother Kaadmy to update it hehe.
23:25 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Having a tight-knit community is a definite positive for a server, but not really something you can "sell" to a broader audience who isn't part of that community and will obviously face barriers to becoming part of it.
23:25 MTDiscord <Warr1024> If you want a repixture server to survive you'd probably have to invest quite a lot of yourself into it first.
23:26 MTDiscord <Jonathon> you would also have to be good at programing and bug fixing since wuzzy barely updates it
23:26 MTDiscord <Jonathon> he seems mostly focused on hades these days
23:26 MTDiscord <MisterE> Samson1: do you really want to have a unique server that people find engaging? Then you will basically want to design a special game. How good are you at modding?
23:27 Samson1 Yeah, I'd never host a Pixture modpack. I always thought it worked best in populated servers, there isn't enough gameplay for singleplayer.
23:27 erlehmann Samson1 be careful, or next you'll design a new minigame for MisterE ;)
23:27 Samson1 Haha!
23:28 MTDiscord <Warr1024> If you want to design a game that's unique enough to get people to fund your server, it might have to be a game game, not a mini-game.
23:29 Samson1 I can't program but I can somewhat read LUA, even more so if variables are tagged with explanations. Other than that, I'm a hardcore modder in multiple games and have done a bit of level designing here and there... Sadly though I don't have the time.
23:30 Samson1 Let me just get a picture of my server... One sec.
23:30 MTDiscord <Warr1024> If you don't have the time then a server with a lot of unique content and airtight moderation is gonna be pretty hard to accomplish.
23:30 MTDiscord <MisterE> https://notabug.org/MisterE123/prehistoric_prospector/src/master/mods  ^ If you give this "game" (not really, yet) a bit of love, it could turn into a special server. It makes ores spawn in veins, and had dinos, and the mapgen is mapgen_rivers: giant mountians, river valleys, huge scale landscape.
23:30 Samson1 I'd love to get a picture of the spawn but I need Plantlife, which crashes on everything in it.
23:30 MTDiscord <MisterE> but you would def need to learn modding to make it work
23:31 MTDiscord <Jonathon> latest plantlife + biome libs works just fine for me
23:31 Samson1 Yeah...
23:31 MTDiscord <Jonathon> are you sure your using the latest?
23:31 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Yeah, whole "I can't program but I can mod" thing had me really scratching my head.
23:31 Samson1 Gathing mods and putting them into a mods folder, or otherwise a Minetest_game Jonathon. :)
23:32 MTDiscord <Jonathon> https://github.com/mt-mods/biome_lib and <https://github.com/mt-mods/plantlife_modpack?
23:32 MTDiscord <Warr1024> It sounds sort of like "I don't know how to dig a hole, but if there's an existing hole that's full of dirt, I can shovel the dirt out."
23:32 panwolfram joined #minetest
23:32 Samson1 Not so much in Minetest, but in Minecraft I have a large knowledge of mods so half the time I don't have to look anything up hehe.
23:33 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Okay, so if you're limited to just curating mods and operating what basic config surface area they offer then yeah, I guess you'd be stuck in soup-space, and the only way to make something truly unique would be to find a hidden gem that's been largely overlooked and find a use for it that brings out its brilliance.
23:34 Samson1 Okay, put it this way. I don't understand computer language but I understand english, and I understand variables if it has what they do next to them hehe.
23:34 MTDiscord <Jonathon> coughs in outdated and/or wrong comments
23:34 MTDiscord <MisterE> well, lets just say that if you make your run of the mill mod mix, then you wont have a great server. However, it is possible to collect gameplay-changing mods, tweak them, and make a unique server with them. But really, its not gonna work without tons of time in the tweaking and the collecting. You will have to learn basic modding (but secret: its really not that hard)
23:34 MTDiscord <Warr1024> In theory it's possible to build an interesting experience without mucking about in code, but you'll be fighting an uphill battle, if your server is open to the public, as every new player who joins is going to bring their preconceptions from the outside world and nudge it back in a "regression to the mean" sort of direction.
23:35 Samson1 I mean... I do have a fully customised 3D armour mod with custom armour and textures in there. xD
23:35 MTDiscord <MisterE> ... that isnt enough to get me excited
23:35 Samson1 Oh the power of copy and paste!
23:35 lemonzest joined #minetest
23:36 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I mean, you can run paper-and-dice tabletop RPG game sessions inside MT, and that would be a very unique and transformative use of the medium, but it goes against the medium's natural tendencies and thus it would be very hard to make that work in practice.
23:36 Samson1 Sorry Jonathon, I think I'm on the latest. I'm just about to try the link you sent.
23:36 Samson1 Also... Minetest has a Discord?? I wasn't fully paying attention to your username.
23:36 MTDiscord <MisterE> a complete texture redo of the entire game is going in the right direction. but It isnt enough... Start drasticly changing default os that unique and new gameplay emerges; then I will start to notice
23:36 MTDiscord <MisterE> *os -> so
23:37 Samson1 MisterE... You're tempting me to do just that. :p
23:37 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Minetest is a big project, it has community spread out across multiple platforms and protocols.
23:38 MTDiscord <MisterE> Samson: one direction you could go is to make ores spawn in veins:
23:38 MTDiscord <MisterE> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/953799441339543592/ores.zip
23:38 MTDiscord <Jonathon> discord.gg/minetest if you care
23:38 Pexin create a mapgen that places crashed ancient spaceships. with robot parts you can salvage
23:38 MTDiscord <MisterE> YES
23:38 MTDiscord <Jonathon> and the link i sent is the latest
23:39 MTDiscord <MisterE> that is going into new content territory... keep the ideas coming
23:39 MTDiscord <MisterE> a mod that does that is easy btw
23:39 MTDiscord <MisterE> you would need to register schematic decorations
23:39 MTDiscord <Warr1024> If you were to want to get me excited about it, you'd have to break some really deep fundamental assumption about the gameplay...
23:39 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest
23:39 MTDiscord <MisterE> ^this
23:39 Samson1 Someone needs to create a mapgen that does exactly what Terraforged does in Minecraft. It's hands down the most realistic and beautiful mapgen I have ever seen in a game.
23:40 erlehmann cool do it
23:40 Samson1 Of course you wouldn't be able to have the custom config that Terraforged has though. You can config the map gen with a fully fledged preview of what it will look like as well. Amazing stuff.
23:40 MTDiscord <Warr1024> The only game for MT that's in the "sandbox" genre and still broke the mold enough to get me excited about it was ColourHop.
23:41 MTDiscord <MisterE> ... my thought process on that goes like: if minecraft has it, and you want it exactly the way minecraft does it, why do it in minetest? why not play minecraft? Id rather see new idea, or new takes on old ideas
23:41 Samson1 Really I think what Minetest needs first is a lighting overhaul.
23:41 Samson1 It's a shame the engine is so limited in that aspect. :/
23:41 MTDiscord <Warr1024> We have to work with what we have for now, though there are still interesting things you can do with it.
23:42 Samson1 Yeah, haha! I downloaded a mod that makes shadows under trees and other similar things but it crashes a second after loading in.
23:42 Samson1 Here...
23:43 Samson1 Failed to load and run script from C:\Users\Samson.COZEN2\Desktop\Portable video games\minetest-5.5.0-win64\minetest-5.5.0-win64\bin\..\mods\plantlife_modpack-master\youngtrees\init.lua:
23:43 Samson1 ...bin\..\mods\plantlife_modpack-master\youngtrees\init.lua:136: attempt to call field 'register_on_generate' (a nil value)
23:43 MTDiscord <MisterE> ^ if you want minecraft, play minecraft. If you want a sandbox that you can easily send mods to players, make practically anything easily with a supported api, and easily see what others have made, play minetest
23:43 Samson1 Trust me, it's the same error on every single other mod inside the pack.
23:43 Pexin what I would find more interesting is separate worldspaces that can interact with each other. say you build an airship, this is its own worldspace, but that WS geometrically has its own position/orientation relative to the "main" WS, and using distance buffering, the WSes can be composited together. collision would be very very tricky, as would how to handle when a player (for example) jumps out of the
23:43 Pexin airship
23:44 MTDiscord <Jonathon> you dont have biome lib
23:44 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Even if you're just trying to curate a bunch of mods into a pack/game, there's almost no "zero code" route in MT.  Try to put together enough stuff to be non-trivial and you'll start to expose bugs that ultimately require some coding skills to address...
23:44 Pexin oops, I slipped into engine-talk. sorry..
23:45 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Samson1: https://github.com/mt-mods/biome_lib/blob/932485a6fecbdcca9f13782a6e1bfccbc7d142d1/api.lua#L100 exists
23:46 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Pexin: you could probably do something related with a mod.  Take a look at how the portal game on CDB works.
23:49 MTDiscord <Warr1024> The way open source works, the barrier to entry is not very high, in that you can start making new things of your own pretty quickly ... but it can be a very long road to certain definitions of "success" as things like attention and money are also pretty scarce.
23:49 Samson1 Well, not so fast. If I wanted to play Minetest I'd play Minetest, if I wanted to play Minecraft I'd do just that. But wishing Minetest didn't have such shockingly bad lighting even by 2003 standards shouldn't have anything to do with being a Minecrafter. Like I've always said, Minecraft has massive disadvantages to Minetest's engine but everything
23:49 Samson1 that makes Minecraft Minecraft is how bendable it is in almost every direction regardless of whether or not it likes it. Because of that literally anything you do in Minecraft can be more polished. It's my firm belief that if Minetest could ever allow for the polish that MC has and didn't have the limitations it does it would be a far superior game
23:49 Samson1 purely from a technical point of view.
23:49 MTDiscord <Warr1024> "If I wanted to play Minetest I'd play Minetest" doesn't work so well when minetest isn't just one specific thing :-|
23:50 Samson1 Well, you know what I mean. :)
23:51 Pexin Warr1024: not clear what portal game you're referring
23:52 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Pexin, haha, fair, I meant the one that actually has portals in it (Modular Portals) not the one that's highly reminiscent of the theme/setting of Portal (Alter)
23:52 MTDiscord <Warr1024> https://content.minetest.net/packages/UnbrokenUnworn/modular_portals/
23:52 Samson1 Minetest's engine lets me build the universe you want. No matter what you do in MC it is still MC. There's no escaping that. But what MC can do is immerse you in it almost limitless, and I personally believe that is hinged purely on the graphics. I was actually referring to Half Life.
23:52 Samson1 So you're correct. :D
23:53 Pexin just don't spend 1.5 years of your life implementing the entire map of HL1 in minetest. you will sad times.
23:54 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Minecraft's "immersion" is really only the sensory kind.
23:54 Samson1 Yes, exactly.
23:55 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I dunno if MT's engine lets you build the universe I want though, I think it lets you build the one you want :-)
23:55 Samson1 Minecraft is satisfying to play and satisfying to look at because it's smooth and very well finished, but Minetest has the superior gameplay at practically every corner.
23:56 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Minecraft has okay gameplay for a certain somewhat casual audience and good visuals, i.e. all the things you'd want to be commercially successful.  MT has both much better and much worse gameplay, depending on where you go, and its strength is really in diversity and experimentation.
23:57 Samson1 Yes.
23:58 Pexin "THIS IS BEST IDEA!" *punch tree* *break hand*
23:58 Samson1 However, in Minecraft it's possible to have a bow function as a bow. It doesn't seem possible even for that in Minetest having observed the modding scene for six odd years.
23:58 erlehmann joined #minetest
23:58 Pexin Samson1: does minecraft have a nuke arrow mod?
23:59 Samson1 Yes.
23:59 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Haha, ironically a lot of the praise my own game gets when people first try it is for "realism" in the gameplay, which ironically is not a goal of the project.
23:59 Pexin oh..   -_-
23:59 Samson1 Oh, trust me... name something, MC has a mod for it or it's in a mod.
23:59 MTDiscord <Jonathon> https://content.minetest.net/packages/SaKeL/x_bows/
23:59 Samson1 I saw that the other day!
23:59 Samson1 I haven't tried it yet.
23:59 Samson1 :(

| Channels | #minetest index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext