| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:17 |
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| 00:28 |
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| 00:28 |
Samson1 |
Is there a way to reset the mapgen? |
| 00:28 |
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| 00:31 |
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| 00:32 |
Samson1 |
I just invalidated map.sqlite and the world is empty. |
| 00:47 |
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| 00:57 |
Samson1 |
Okay, where in the map files is the map gen stated? |
| 00:58 |
Samson1 |
In Minecraft the mapgen can be changed via a .conf both in the server and map. |
| 01:08 |
Yad |
Samson1: I'm not sure what you mean...if map.squlite is gone, it will be regenerated, no? |
| 01:10 |
Samson1 |
No. |
| 01:10 |
Samson1 |
Yad I suspect that the mapgen has been overridden so the map won't generate as it expects a mapgen that doesn't exist. |
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| 03:00 |
Gustavo6046 |
ooooh https://github.com/distil/rust_lua_ffi |
| 03:15 |
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| 08:33 |
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| 09:01 |
sfan5 |
!tell Samson1 map_meta.txt has what you're looking for, it's the mg_name setting |
| 09:01 |
MinetestBot |
sfan5: I'll pass that on when Samson1 is around |
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| 09:14 |
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| 09:14 |
MinetestBot |
Samson1: Mar-16 09:01 UTC <sfan5> map_meta.txt has what you're looking for, it's the mg_name setting |
| 09:28 |
Samson1 |
sfan5 Thanks! I got it generating again however MT refilled the file with more wrong settings. Eek! |
| 09:31 |
sfan5 |
you probably have a mod that sets whatever it thinks is right |
| 09:34 |
Samson1 |
Hm, okay. |
| 09:34 |
Samson1 |
I just took all of the mods off and it's still doing it. |
| 09:35 |
Samson1 |
'mg_biome_np_' is a mapgen isn't it? |
| 09:35 |
Samson1 |
And I want 'mgv6_np_' right? |
| 09:36 |
sfan5 |
ah well it puts preset settings for all of the mapgens in there |
| 09:36 |
sfan5 |
what matters is what mg_name is set to |
| 09:36 |
Samson1 |
Wait, now I'm confused. I just deleted it and the new one is using V7? V7 didn't exist when this world was made. |
| 09:37 |
sfan5 |
by the way to preserve correct mapgen you want to keep at least the 'seed' setting, so don't delete map meta outright |
| 09:38 |
Samson1 |
It's fine, I have backups and I cloned my MT folder hehe. |
| 09:39 |
Samson1 |
Is there anywhere I could post the file? I only understand a little of what everything is. |
| 09:40 |
Samson1 |
How it works that is, I know what the variables are. |
| 09:40 |
Samson1 |
It's 'mg_biome'. |
| 09:41 |
sfan5 |
mg_biome is not a map generator |
| 09:41 |
Samson1 |
Not a default one at least.. |
| 09:41 |
sfan5 |
no, it's not one |
| 09:41 |
Samson1 |
Oh, okay. |
| 09:41 |
sfan5 |
the 'np' stands for noise parameters and it contains information about the way biomes are generated, this information is used by multiple map generators |
| 09:41 |
Samson1 |
Aah. |
| 09:42 |
Samson1 |
Um, how would I got about putting a mapgen in it? Seeing as MT replaces the files. |
| 09:42 |
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| 09:43 |
sfan5 |
if you want to restore map generation you should take the file you had before and ensure mg_name is set to the right mapgen (v6 as you said) and not e.g. singlenode |
| 09:43 |
Samson1 |
Oooh, that's the location? Okay, one sec.. |
| 09:43 |
sfan5 |
what Minetest does to the rest of the parameters is not a problem/relevant |
| 09:44 |
sfan5 |
you can use pastebin.com for (text) file posting btw |
| 09:45 |
Samson1 |
Minetest didn't like me changing it from '= singlenode' to '= V6' |
| 09:46 |
sfan5 |
the v should be lowercase |
| 09:47 |
Samson1 |
Just trying it again. |
| 09:50 |
Samson1 |
Okay, how do I put the pastebin here? |
| 09:51 |
Oblomov |
paste the link you get after saving the pastebin |
| 09:56 |
Samson1 |
This? https://pastebin.com/50Aps2Wb |
| 09:59 |
Oblomov |
Samson1: exactly |
| 10:01 |
sfan5 |
looks correct to me |
| 10:02 |
Samson1 |
Hmm, okay. Well that's all well and good now, but I still can't get the map to generate. |
| 10:02 |
sfan5 |
try //deleteblocks on the area again |
| 10:03 |
Samson1 |
I've been doing it in chunks that already exist, nothing. |
| 10:04 |
Samson1 |
No wait! It's working!! |
| 10:06 |
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| 10:09 |
Samson1 |
Thanks so much! |
| 10:15 |
Samson1 |
Hmm, //fixlight isn't working now, it isn't working in the new chunks. |
| 10:19 |
sfan5 |
you often have to make the region much bigger than the light bug itself |
| 10:20 |
Samson1 |
Ah, okay. |
| 10:24 |
Samson1 |
In this case it's all of the newly generated blocks. |
| 10:41 |
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| 10:45 |
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| 10:46 |
Samson1 |
sfan5 Is there any way of fixing the lights with a mod? |
| 11:01 |
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| 11:13 |
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| 11:37 |
sfan5 |
didn't it work with worldedit |
| 11:37 |
sfan5 |
? |
| 11:37 |
Samson17 |
No. |
| 11:38 |
Samson17 |
In fact it's making it worse in some areas. |
| 11:38 |
Samson17 |
:( |
| 11:39 |
Samson17 |
There's more black in the map than any other colour now. |
| 11:40 |
Samson17 |
And the gen suddenly decided to make a huge region a snowy biome for some reason, so I have a lot of fixing to do.. |
| 11:43 |
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| 12:55 |
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| 13:01 |
neko2 |
hiya all. so I was pondering a thought experiment for a mod involving falling nodes being more useful in contraptions this morning. I realised I'd need some way to have a callback occur _specifically_ when a node turns into a falling node entity. do such callbacks currently exist at all? (I don't see mention of such a thing in the api. I figured maybe a removal callback might fire though, guess I'd have |
| 13:01 |
neko2 |
to check that in-game) |
| 13:12 |
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| 13:12 |
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| 13:26 |
Oblomov |
sometimes I really wish MT had an in-game top-down view |
| 13:26 |
neko2 |
Oblomov: you mean, not the minimap? |
| 13:27 |
Oblomov |
I don't mean like the map, I mean for the game itself |
| 13:27 |
InFerNo__ |
My kids play Minetest with me on our local LAN server, but they have discovered that they can join online server, they're still too young so I would like to block that, does anyone know what address or IP I can block to prevent Minetest from getting the list of available servers? |
| 13:27 |
Oblomov |
you know like you can change the camera? |
| 13:27 |
Oblomov |
have one with the camera right above you |
| 13:27 |
Oblomov |
fixed |
| 13:28 |
neko2 |
Oblomov: I don't know of a way to fixate the camera that wouldn't interfere with some mods for animated player models (the head would be stuck facing downwards) |
| 13:28 |
Oblomov |
neko2: MT already has views that are from outside |
| 13:28 |
Oblomov |
it shouldn't be too hard to add one at a fixed distance from the player |
| 13:28 |
Oblomov |
but on top and looking down |
| 13:29 |
neko2 |
Oblomov: well I mean. you can do that already. but mods assume the look direction is tied to the player's view in some way. |
| 13:29 |
Oblomov |
so the mouse keeps controlling the character's heading, but the camera doesn't move, only changes xz coords when the player moves, and y coordinates when it goes up/down |
| 13:30 |
Oblomov |
neko2: you mean for texts and the like? |
| 13:30 |
neko2 |
Oblomov: texts? I don't think I understand where you got that from |
| 13:30 |
Oblomov |
neko2: I don't see how the camera position and orientation would effect mods, which are server-side |
| 13:33 |
Oblomov |
InFerNo__: by default the server list is fetched from servers.minetest.net, but blocking that won't prevent them from accessing outside servers if they know the url/port |
| 13:34 |
Oblomov |
InFerNo__: you want something more drastic, like preventing all out-of-lan connections from minetest |
| 13:35 |
neko2 |
Oblomov: cos the client is currently obligated to send the camera look direction to the server. and mods bake that assumption in, so some thing that add custom aim/control mechanisms would totally break if the client camera doesn't align with what is reported by get_look_dir() and so forth on the server. |
| 13:36 |
Oblomov |
neko2: the client could still send the “camera look”, except that instead of being a camera look it would be a virtual look direction |
| 13:36 |
neko2 |
Oblomov: read what I said more carefully, that could break things |
| 13:37 |
neko2 |
what you ask for could be done, it'd just also be a potential api break |
| 13:37 |
neko2 |
which means it's not as simple as one would like to think |
| 13:38 |
Oblomov |
neko2: I still don't see how. it simply means that the player looking direction would be disconnected from the camera direction. the behavior related to the looking direction would remain exactly the same |
| 13:38 |
Oblomov |
e.g. aiming, reach etc |
| 13:38 |
Oblomov |
they would simply apply to the player look dir rather than the camera di |
| 13:38 |
neko2 |
Oblomov: some mods will be working on the assumption that "look dir = where the real human player is looking/seeing", changing that is an API break |
| 13:39 |
neko2 |
there's currently only one variable for mods, with two meanings mixed together |
| 13:39 |
neko2 |
separating them is an api break |
| 13:39 |
Oblomov |
mods don't need to access the camera dir |
| 13:39 |
Oblomov |
they only need to care about the player's look dir |
| 13:39 |
Oblomov |
and the client can then remap all info derived from it into the camera space |
| 13:39 |
neko2 |
Oblomov: except they already do that, and are free to assume that, because that's how it's always been (and what look_dir currently means) |
| 13:40 |
Oblomov |
neko2: and what I'm saying is that I would like to have a camera view setting where the camera view is detached and fixed |
| 13:40 |
Oblomov |
nothing would break |
| 13:40 |
neko2 |
mods _already_ assume look_dir = player's view dir, so decoupling that has breakage potential. |
| 13:41 |
Oblomov |
there is no decoupling |
| 13:41 |
Oblomov |
look_dir will remain the player's view dir |
| 13:41 |
Oblomov |
the CAMERA view dir would be detached |
| 13:42 |
Oblomov |
which is a client-only thing |
| 13:42 |
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| 13:43 |
neko2 |
evidently you've never looked into weeping angel mods... when I say view dir I mean camera dir. mods can assume currently that get_look_dir is _both_ where the player is aiming/pointing _and_ where the client side camera is looking. you may not like it, but they can do that right now. your feature request would break that, so it'd be an api break. |
| 13:45 |
Oblomov |
neko2: would still work exactly the same way |
| 13:45 |
Oblomov |
when the player is looking at the angel it doesn't move, when the player is looking away it starts chaing |
| 13:45 |
Oblomov |
chasing |
| 13:45 |
Oblomov |
literally nothing changes |
| 13:46 |
Oblomov |
you don't even need to update the stuff outside of the player's view angle. fog-of-war |
| 13:47 |
neko2 |
Oblomov: but for that to work mods need to decouple their sense of "what the human can see" from "the player's position and their look_dir()", also an API break |
| 13:47 |
Oblomov |
hm no? |
| 13:48 |
Oblomov |
this is handled entirely client side |
| 13:48 |
neko2 |
Oblomov: but hypothetical weeping angels aren't ;) |
| 13:48 |
Oblomov |
neko2: so what? |
| 13:48 |
Oblomov |
neko2: the meaning of look_dir doesn't change |
| 13:48 |
Oblomov |
it's still controlled exactly the same way |
| 13:49 |
Oblomov |
something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bUuyYBjXWg |
| 13:49 |
neko2 |
either: the server knows, code has to change to know where the detached camera is: API break via function calls. or: it's client side only, and suddenly the mod doesn't know the player can see "behind" where the player's avatar is: the mod falls apart. API breakage by behavioural change. |
| 13:50 |
Oblomov |
neko2: the player still cannot see behind |
| 13:50 |
Oblomov |
watchthe video I linked |
| 13:50 |
neko2 |
Oblomov: so what, you intend to just arbitrarily restrict instead? |
| 13:50 |
Oblomov |
restrict what? |
| 13:50 |
neko2 |
the camera angles, such that the player can't see behind them |
| 13:51 |
neko2 |
arbitrary restrictions don't make for good engine features |
| 13:51 |
Oblomov |
wtf |
| 13:51 |
Oblomov |
the camera angle is fixed on top |
| 13:51 |
Oblomov |
but the rendered scene only includes what's in the player's view angle |
| 13:51 |
_Zaizen_[m]1 |
Hi everyone does anyone know where is located the code that renders the client chat? |
| 13:51 |
Oblomov |
neko2: did you watch the video I inked? |
| 13:52 |
Oblomov |
have you ever played a top-down 2D stealth game or something like that? |
| 13:52 |
neko2 |
Oblomov: no, because even from your description that's still a weird restriction (and now it _also_ requires changes to the renderer, that's likely gonna result in the feature not happening) |
| 13:53 |
neko2 |
scope creep in general makes things less likely to happen. |
| 13:53 |
Oblomov |
there is no restriction |
| 13:55 |
neko2 |
Oblomov: minetest's render code has no concept of culling things out that are on-screen but _not_ in an arbitrary FOV cone. that would require a lot of non-trivial work, compared to your original description that sounded more akin to server-controlled freecam (it would _have_ to be server dictated else the client could just freecam to look through walls) |
| 13:56 |
neko2 |
(I think it optimises not rendering mapblocks behind you in a coarse fashion and maybe some you definitely can't see anyhow, but it's fairly conservative.) |
| 13:58 |
neko2 |
so like. it's either, a simpler idea of server-controlled freecam that is probably doable but would be API break, whether implied or explicit. or, a more complicated feature requiring renderer work which... I don't think is gonna happen, unless you're willing to put in the elbow grease yourself |
| 14:04 |
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| 14:08 |
neko2 |
generally worth remembering anything requiring custom draw/render logic is likely gonna be a no unless you can figure it yourself. (and, if it involves low level specialty code, which I suggest a stealth-game-type FOV render cone would require, also making sure it works within the confines of irrlicht) |
| 14:20 |
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| 14:25 |
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| 14:28 |
erlehmann |
<neko2> mods _already_ assume look_dir = player's view dir, so decoupling that has breakage potential. |
| 14:28 |
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| 14:28 |
erlehmann |
i disagree neko2 |
| 14:28 |
erlehmann |
there is already third person backwards view |
| 14:29 |
erlehmann |
also cheat clients have had CSM cam for a while as far as i know |
| 14:30 |
erlehmann |
Oblomov are you using dragonfire or waspsaliva? surely you can figure it out |
| 14:30 |
erlehmann |
and before someone comes with “uh, looking behind walls is cheating” … you know about shadows? people can look around corners using shadows, i.e. infer if someone is there. |
| 14:31 |
erlehmann |
also people use third person view to spy around corners all the time |
| 14:32 |
erlehmann |
InFerNo__ regarding playing offline just use some firewall thing and ONLY allow the LAN server port 30000 |
| 14:33 |
erlehmann |
InFerNo__ alternatively, i suggest to play with your kids on an online server together. that way you can supervise them. |
| 14:33 |
erlehmann |
and also have some family fun |
| 14:35 |
erlehmann |
i have met people who played on the same server as their parents. or in one case, a player was playing on the same server with grandpa. |
| 14:35 |
erlehmann |
also you can disable chat with f2 |
| 14:36 |
erlehmann |
InFerNo__ the server list comes from https://servers.minetest.net/list but you should know that kids are smart and will find ways around it. for example, they can just input the hostname or IP and port directly. |
| 14:37 |
erlehmann |
i was a little kid once and tricked my parents and teachers regarding computer stuff! |
| 14:43 |
Oblomov |
erlehmann: I'm not using dragonfire or waspsaliva |
| 14:44 |
erlehmann |
Oblomov try it out. you might find some stuff useful for vanilla minetest. |
| 14:44 |
erlehmann |
for example, last night on a test server for mineclone2 i lagged out when cora produced a lot of particles. |
| 14:44 |
erlehmann |
cora did not lag out though, because waspsaliva allows turning particle rendering off |
| 14:45 |
neko2 |
erlehmann: fair enough, my weeping angel example is refuted. I still think though the general concept is either "small API feature that incurs breakage no matter how you do it" for the simplest version, or "non-trivial renderer change" if you want the fancy version) |
| 14:45 |
erlehmann |
neko2 what? |
| 14:46 |
erlehmann |
there is no breakage from allowing more camera angles |
| 14:46 |
erlehmann |
players can already see behind them and i have been using it every time someone is asked to follow |
| 14:46 |
erlehmann |
to see if they are still keeping up |
| 14:47 |
erlehmann |
you know, it can take half an hour to walk to some point in a map |
| 14:47 |
erlehmann |
more even |
| 14:47 |
erlehmann |
if it is not straight terrain |
| 14:47 |
neko2 |
erlehmann: the original question wasn't about seeing behind, it was about fixed top-down decoupled from what the player was pointing at. |
| 14:47 |
erlehmann |
that should be easily possible with dragonfire/waspsaliva |
| 14:47 |
erlehmann |
with no API breakage i assume |
| 14:48 |
neko2 |
you got a link to those? I'm curious to see what it is they're doing (and whether it's actually a massive hack) |
| 14:49 |
neko2 |
erlehmann: |
| 14:49 |
erlehmann |
neko2 https://repo.or.cz/waspsaliva.git |
| 14:50 |
erlehmann |
https://repo.or.cz/waspsaliva.git/commitdiff/9633ad122b4b0f90fa937a0f0df38e488344ddec?hp=b4e475726b0793af1338f0618fac29e4fef69098 |
| 14:50 |
erlehmann |
fleckenstein made this freecam cheat |
| 14:52 |
erlehmann |
neko2, wrong commit, look here: https://repo.or.cz/waspsaliva.git/commitdiff/5a8610c2f41e44c827912246b4f9437051d11621?hp=83f59484d3b03e8964f1c7886dd1a0afd96ddd8d |
| 14:53 |
erlehmann |
look for toggleFreecam |
| 14:53 |
erlehmann |
surely you can modify this to get a nice top down view |
| 14:53 |
neko2 |
oh, so that's not actually a mod, just a client side hack. in which case morals aside, the breaking of any assumptions a mod may make about the actually reported look dir is completely on you and unspecified behaviour. I thought we were talking about a feature one could pragmatically expect to get upstreamed. |
| 14:54 |
erlehmann |
i am pretty sure if you make a non-cheaty version of this you can try to get it upstreamed |
| 14:54 |
erlehmann |
like, obviously it is cheaty to clip through everything |
| 14:54 |
erlehmann |
maybe you should first specify your requirements |
| 14:55 |
neko2 |
to be clear, I am not saying "possible breakage means this never gets done"; I am merely saying be prepared for it to be modified/tweaked to take into account core dev concerns. |
| 14:55 |
erlehmann |
and again the avatar looks in one direction, the player looks somewhere else |
| 14:57 |
Oblomov |
erlehmann: my requirements would be to have something like what intravenous does |
| 14:57 |
erlehmann |
what is that |
| 14:58 |
Oblomov |
erlehmann: see e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlpilOqlLiY |
| 14:58 |
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| 14:59 |
Oblomov |
you still keep your FOV (can use fog-of-war for “not visible anymore stuff” |
| 14:59 |
Oblomov |
player-wise, of course |
| 14:59 |
Oblomov |
character-wise, to be specific |
| 14:59 |
Oblomov |
but you have a top-down view of your surrounding (think minimap when in the open) |
| 15:02 |
Oblomov |
the only “cheating” would be that overhead blocks would have to be semi-transparent to show where the user is etc |
| 15:05 |
erlehmann |
that's cheating for me |
| 15:05 |
erlehmann |
but Oblomov try to experiment with freecam |
| 15:06 |
Oblomov |
what's “cheating” about semi-transparent or invisible overhead blocks? |
| 15:06 |
Oblomov |
you can make it fully transparent too if they are out of sight |
| 15:07 |
erlehmann |
wallhack |
| 15:07 |
erlehmann |
also overhead cam means you can look around corners |
| 15:08 |
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| 15:10 |
Oblomov |
how is it a wallhack to not render the blocks above? |
| 15:10 |
Oblomov |
when you're not looking at them? or make the first layer semi-transparent (see through in the direction towards the player) |
| 15:11 |
Oblomov |
it doesn't reveal anything |
| 15:12 |
erlehmann |
it reveals what is behind |
| 15:12 |
Oblomov |
no, it doesn't |
| 15:13 |
Oblomov |
visible block = semi-transparent (so that you can stil see the player), non-visible block = not-rendered |
| 15:13 |
neko2 |
Oblomov: I already told you, dynamic hiding of things "behind" the logical FoV of the player avatar isn't gonna happen, you'll need something simpler |
| 15:13 |
Oblomov |
the point is that “what is behind” (camera-wise) is the player |
| 15:14 |
Oblomov |
neko2: for those you can use fog of war |
| 15:14 |
Oblomov |
render them at the last state they were in when seen, until brought back into view |
| 15:15 |
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| 15:16 |
neko2 |
Oblomov: I see... so... you gonna write the code for that? because in practice the core devs are unlikely to have time for any nontrivial rendering logic changes (trivial is being used in a programmer's sense here), especially figuring out how to make that fit the holes irrlicht wants everything to fit into |
| 15:17 |
Oblomov |
neko2: no, I just expressed a wish |
| 15:17 |
Oblomov |
and you dragged the discussion on for hours |
| 15:18 |
neko2 |
Oblomov: because your initial description was vague, and hid that what you wanted was way more complex than initially suggested. |
| 15:19 |
neko2 |
I was giving suggestion based on a reasonable assumption of a simple initial idea before it blew up, that's on you |
| 15:19 |
neko2 |
(reasonable assumption = trying to figure out what you meant) |
| 15:20 |
neko2 |
so sure, a wish, fair enough, don't pin this on me though |
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erlehmann |
Oblomov are you trying the freecam? |
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jonadab |
Pexin: Oh, hmm, 2011 is far more recent than I was thinking. I think most RDBMSes had transactions at that point; I think even MySQL had them by then. |
| 17:11 |
jonadab |
Not sure about SQLite. |
| 17:20 |
Oblomov |
erlehmann: I'm not going to build a fork of minetest just to try the freecam |
| 17:21 |
erlehmann |
your loss |
| 17:30 |
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| 18:12 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> sfan5: I've found https://minetest-mods.github.io, but I don't see any particular application process there. |
| 18:17 |
MTDiscord |
<threehymns> https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=13839 was posted by sofar |
| 18:17 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Yeah, I'm aware |
| 18:17 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> That's linked on the site |
| 18:17 |
MTDiscord |
<threehymns> I would try contacting him |
| 18:17 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> But a quick Ctrl + F doesn't bring up something either |
| 18:18 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Nah, sofar is only infrequently active |
| 18:18 |
* sofar |
waves |
| 18:18 |
MTDiscord |
<threehymns> Last active yesterday on the forums... |
| 18:18 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> oh hey |
| 18:18 |
MTDiscord |
<threehymns> Oh wait, that was actually a month ago |
| 18:18 |
MTDiscord |
<threehymns> Feb, not Mar |
| 18:19 |
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| 18:19 |
appguru |
So you were just lurking all the time it seems |
| 18:19 |
sofar |
I'm right here |
| 18:19 |
appguru |
Alright sofar, I'd like to apply for minetest-mods membership |
| 18:20 |
sofar |
https://github.com/minetest-mods/minetest-mods.github.io/issues |
| 18:20 |
sofar |
open a ticket there |
| 18:23 |
appguru |
sofar: alright, https://github.com/minetest-mods/minetest-mods.github.io/issues/118 |
| 18:24 |
MTDiscord |
<threehymns> sofar: I love your skybox mod |
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independent56 |
it turns out that all my problems with running out of memory were fixed by setting the mapgen block limit to around 1000. |
| 19:36 |
independent56 |
Yes, it does sometimes lag, but that's fine |
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_Zaizen_[m]1 |
<_Zaizen_[m]1> "Hi everyone does anyone know..." <- Does anyone have some info about this? thanks |
| 20:14 |
rubenwardy |
not sure, but I'm guessing chat.cpp or hud.cpp |
| 20:14 |
rubenwardy |
also, this rarely happens in this direction, but #minetest-dev :D |
| 20:15 |
rubenwardy |
for any more questions |
| 20:18 |
rubenwardy |
chat.cpp/h generates an enriched string which is then passed to GameUI::setChatText |
| 20:18 |
rubenwardy |
and displayed in m_guitext_chat |
| 20:18 |
rubenwardy |
_Zaizen_[m]1: |
| 20:19 |
rubenwardy |
src/client/gameui.cpp:229 |
| 20:19 |
_Zaizen_[m]1 |
rubenwardy: Oh sorry for that, next time I wil use that chat! |
| 20:19 |
_Zaizen_[m]1 |
rubenwardy: Thanks! |
| 20:20 |
rubenwardy |
I'm guessing you're adding a background option |
| 20:20 |
_Zaizen_[m]1 |
rubenwardy: Zughy* |
| 20:48 |
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| 21:03 |
erlehmann |
is it possible to place unknown nodes in the world by means of a voxelmanip or something? |
| 21:06 |
sfan5 |
probably |
| 21:13 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Just using a content ID for which there is no node should work. |
| 21:14 |
sfan5 |
well not really, every node must have a name, even if it's unknown |
| 21:14 |
sfan5 |
but you might be able to use an ID that's already allocated for an unknown node |
| 21:15 |
sfan5 |
but I don't know how far the code checks stuff anyway |
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Hawker |
hey |
| 22:31 |
Hawker |
Glad to be here |
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Pexin |
rubenwardy: (...)this rarely happens in this direction(...) XD |
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| 22:58 |
Samson1 |
I have a question, more about MT as a community if anything. Would MT players donate to keep a server they like running? |
| 22:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> depends how popular it is, and how much you promote the donation link |
| 23:01 |
Pexin |
bearing in mind it's pretty hard to build a community on a given server. if you have 5 semi-regular players total (not online at the same time -- total) you are doing quite well |
| 23:02 |
erlehmann |
Samson1 people do donate to keep a server running, yes |
| 23:02 |
erlehmann |
Samson1 i have seen more servers go down from demotivated or rogue admins than from lack of funding so far |
| 23:03 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It can be very irregular. You can have hundreds of players who wouldn't (or even can't) pay a dime, and then one generous donor who will pay the entire hosting cost. |
| 23:03 |
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| 23:03 |
erlehmann |
on clamity you'd get a colored username tag for having donated |
| 23:06 |
Samson1 |
Oh, I forgot that coloured usernames are a thing now. |
| 23:07 |
Samson1 |
Yeah, I think what I will do is 'trial' host on my Pi for a day or two and see how it goes, what do you think? |
| 23:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> your unlikely to get much of anything |
| 23:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> unless you do heavy recruiting |
| 23:08 |
Samson1 |
recruiting? |
| 23:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> see serverlists stats, rounded to a whole person, there is about one person for every server on the list on average |
| 23:08 |
Samson1 |
Mm, yeah. |
| 23:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> recruiting == go annoy people on discord/irc/matrix/the forums with your cool new server, why they should try it, etc |
| 23:09 |
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| 23:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> and note that probably 1/4 to 1/8 of those players arent even comming from minetest itself, despite the minetest serverlist being obviously biased against it |
| 23:11 |
Samson1 |
I successfully got most of Minetest back in the day on my server and it saw a couple of weeks of almost 30 plus players, until that old sodding Areas bug enabled griefers to ruin everything. ?I doubt I'd be that lucky again. |
| 23:11 |
erlehmann |
Samson1 if you want a server that is unique, make one with repixture. it is the one high-profile game that is lacking a server. |
| 23:11 |
rubenwardy |
took CTF months to get any players, and CTF isn't yet another survival/creative sandbox |
| 23:11 |
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| 23:11 |
erlehmann |
also it is relatively peaceful |
| 23:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Recruiting will draw in people faster than just waiting, but you have to be careful not to annoy people to the point you get in trouble for it. You CAN pick up some traffic just from sitting in the server list, but if you're hoping that turns into funding, expect that to take months, if your server is spectacularly unique and engaging, and years otherwise... |
| 23:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> cough repixture also needs namespacing bad |
| 23:12 |
erlehmann |
never going to happen |
| 23:12 |
Samson1 |
I'm not familiar with MT game modes, my server isn't like anything in existence in MT though, and I can promise you that. The only thing is, is it a little to different? You know? |
| 23:12 |
erlehmann |
well how is it different? |
| 23:13 |
Samson1 |
pffff, erm. |
| 23:13 |
erlehmann |
or to be meaner: why would anyone want to play there? |
| 23:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> A lot of us have heard "completely unlike anything else out there" a lot of times from various people who ran stuff that was completely like everything else out there, so don't be too shocked at the skepticism :-| |
| 23:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> "why would anyone want to play there?" <-- actually having an elevator pitch on hand is probably a good idea in general... |
| 23:15 |
Samson1 |
Full texture overhaul, gameplay overhaul, some lighting, unique map that's beautiful, 100% family friendly environment and ruled with an iron fist. Focused purely on community, economy, medieval/fantasy building and development. |
| 23:15 |
Samson1 |
Partly a synopsis, partly not. |
| 23:15 |
erlehmann |
ok do it |
| 23:16 |
erlehmann |
but “family friendly and ruled with an iron fist” probably needs some brainwashing before ppl like it lol |
| 23:16 |
erlehmann |
or your propaganda needs to tone it down |
| 23:17 |
erlehmann |
how about ”ruled with a big soft fluffy hand” |
| 23:17 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> "not like anything in existence" ... and yet the actual product sounds like another soup server, with a lot of the same goals as others. Since your concept is very run-of-the-mill, if you want to attract funding, you'll have to knock it out when it comes to execution. |
| 23:19 |
Samson1 |
Well, maybe I can sell it like this: after an awful lot of bans and kicks a new wave of people started coming and were scared of me, but after a short time of asking me whether it was okay if they did this or that, they came to realise that I meant 'I don't care what you do so long as it's within the rules' quite literally. After a while it was |
| 23:19 |
Samson1 |
almost like those same players felt completely immune from administration and did what they liked, plus the team helped them with stuff and assisted when they needed. A community grew who I also never saw on any other server weirdly. People from all ages as well. My mind's foggy though, it was many years ago. |
| 23:21 |
Samson1 |
erlehmann Hehe, you need to can that phrase! |
| 23:21 |
Samson1 |
In all seriousness though, I am being literal but it is a blunt way of putting it. |
| 23:23 |
Samson1 |
Oooh! Repixture! I know that, made by Kaadmy right? Or is that the original modpack, I forget. |
| 23:23 |
rubenwardy |
Pixture was by kaadmy |
| 23:23 |
rubenwardy |
Repixture is a maintained fork |
| 23:24 |
erlehmann |
look just make a repixture server and you'll see players |
| 23:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> its wuzzys remake for 5.x |
| 23:24 |
Samson1 |
Aah, okay. |
| 23:24 |
erlehmann |
it's different enough from normal mod soup |
| 23:24 |
erlehmann |
and different enough from the mineclones |
| 23:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> erlehmann: false, there has been at least two in the past two years |
| 23:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> both failed |
| 23:24 |
erlehmann |
Jonathon, oh! |
| 23:24 |
erlehmann |
failed, as in? |
| 23:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> shut down, mainly because no point in keeping them open |
| 23:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> interestingly, both where run by outsiders |
| 23:25 |
Samson1 |
I'll have to bother Kaadmy to update it hehe. |
| 23:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Having a tight-knit community is a definite positive for a server, but not really something you can "sell" to a broader audience who isn't part of that community and will obviously face barriers to becoming part of it. |
| 23:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If you want a repixture server to survive you'd probably have to invest quite a lot of yourself into it first. |
| 23:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> you would also have to be good at programing and bug fixing since wuzzy barely updates it |
| 23:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> he seems mostly focused on hades these days |
| 23:26 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Samson1: do you really want to have a unique server that people find engaging? Then you will basically want to design a special game. How good are you at modding? |
| 23:27 |
Samson1 |
Yeah, I'd never host a Pixture modpack. I always thought it worked best in populated servers, there isn't enough gameplay for singleplayer. |
| 23:27 |
erlehmann |
Samson1 be careful, or next you'll design a new minigame for MisterE ;) |
| 23:27 |
Samson1 |
Haha! |
| 23:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If you want to design a game that's unique enough to get people to fund your server, it might have to be a game game, not a mini-game. |
| 23:29 |
Samson1 |
I can't program but I can somewhat read LUA, even more so if variables are tagged with explanations. Other than that, I'm a hardcore modder in multiple games and have done a bit of level designing here and there... Sadly though I don't have the time. |
| 23:30 |
Samson1 |
Let me just get a picture of my server... One sec. |
| 23:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If you don't have the time then a server with a lot of unique content and airtight moderation is gonna be pretty hard to accomplish. |
| 23:30 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> https://notabug.org/MisterE123/prehistoric_prospector/src/master/mods ^ If you give this "game" (not really, yet) a bit of love, it could turn into a special server. It makes ores spawn in veins, and had dinos, and the mapgen is mapgen_rivers: giant mountians, river valleys, huge scale landscape. |
| 23:30 |
Samson1 |
I'd love to get a picture of the spawn but I need Plantlife, which crashes on everything in it. |
| 23:30 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> but you would def need to learn modding to make it work |
| 23:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> latest plantlife + biome libs works just fine for me |
| 23:31 |
Samson1 |
Yeah... |
| 23:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> are you sure your using the latest? |
| 23:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Yeah, whole "I can't program but I can mod" thing had me really scratching my head. |
| 23:31 |
Samson1 |
Gathing mods and putting them into a mods folder, or otherwise a Minetest_game Jonathon. :) |
| 23:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> https://github.com/mt-mods/biome_lib and <https://github.com/mt-mods/plantlife_modpack? |
| 23:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It sounds sort of like "I don't know how to dig a hole, but if there's an existing hole that's full of dirt, I can shovel the dirt out." |
| 23:32 |
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| 23:32 |
Samson1 |
Not so much in Minetest, but in Minecraft I have a large knowledge of mods so half the time I don't have to look anything up hehe. |
| 23:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Okay, so if you're limited to just curating mods and operating what basic config surface area they offer then yeah, I guess you'd be stuck in soup-space, and the only way to make something truly unique would be to find a hidden gem that's been largely overlooked and find a use for it that brings out its brilliance. |
| 23:34 |
Samson1 |
Okay, put it this way. I don't understand computer language but I understand english, and I understand variables if it has what they do next to them hehe. |
| 23:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> coughs in outdated and/or wrong comments |
| 23:34 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> well, lets just say that if you make your run of the mill mod mix, then you wont have a great server. However, it is possible to collect gameplay-changing mods, tweak them, and make a unique server with them. But really, its not gonna work without tons of time in the tweaking and the collecting. You will have to learn basic modding (but secret: its really not that hard) |
| 23:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> In theory it's possible to build an interesting experience without mucking about in code, but you'll be fighting an uphill battle, if your server is open to the public, as every new player who joins is going to bring their preconceptions from the outside world and nudge it back in a "regression to the mean" sort of direction. |
| 23:35 |
Samson1 |
I mean... I do have a fully customised 3D armour mod with custom armour and textures in there. xD |
| 23:35 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> ... that isnt enough to get me excited |
| 23:35 |
Samson1 |
Oh the power of copy and paste! |
| 23:35 |
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| 23:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I mean, you can run paper-and-dice tabletop RPG game sessions inside MT, and that would be a very unique and transformative use of the medium, but it goes against the medium's natural tendencies and thus it would be very hard to make that work in practice. |
| 23:36 |
Samson1 |
Sorry Jonathon, I think I'm on the latest. I'm just about to try the link you sent. |
| 23:36 |
Samson1 |
Also... Minetest has a Discord?? I wasn't fully paying attention to your username. |
| 23:36 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> a complete texture redo of the entire game is going in the right direction. but It isnt enough... Start drasticly changing default os that unique and new gameplay emerges; then I will start to notice |
| 23:36 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> *os -> so |
| 23:37 |
Samson1 |
MisterE... You're tempting me to do just that. :p |
| 23:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Minetest is a big project, it has community spread out across multiple platforms and protocols. |
| 23:38 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Samson: one direction you could go is to make ores spawn in veins: |
| 23:38 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/953799441339543592/ores.zip |
| 23:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> discord.gg/minetest if you care |
| 23:38 |
Pexin |
create a mapgen that places crashed ancient spaceships. with robot parts you can salvage |
| 23:38 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> YES |
| 23:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> and the link i sent is the latest |
| 23:39 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> that is going into new content territory... keep the ideas coming |
| 23:39 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> a mod that does that is easy btw |
| 23:39 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> you would need to register schematic decorations |
| 23:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If you were to want to get me excited about it, you'd have to break some really deep fundamental assumption about the gameplay... |
| 23:39 |
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| 23:39 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> ^this |
| 23:39 |
Samson1 |
Someone needs to create a mapgen that does exactly what Terraforged does in Minecraft. It's hands down the most realistic and beautiful mapgen I have ever seen in a game. |
| 23:40 |
erlehmann |
cool do it |
| 23:40 |
Samson1 |
Of course you wouldn't be able to have the custom config that Terraforged has though. You can config the map gen with a fully fledged preview of what it will look like as well. Amazing stuff. |
| 23:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The only game for MT that's in the "sandbox" genre and still broke the mold enough to get me excited about it was ColourHop. |
| 23:41 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> ... my thought process on that goes like: if minecraft has it, and you want it exactly the way minecraft does it, why do it in minetest? why not play minecraft? Id rather see new idea, or new takes on old ideas |
| 23:41 |
Samson1 |
Really I think what Minetest needs first is a lighting overhaul. |
| 23:41 |
Samson1 |
It's a shame the engine is so limited in that aspect. :/ |
| 23:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> We have to work with what we have for now, though there are still interesting things you can do with it. |
| 23:42 |
Samson1 |
Yeah, haha! I downloaded a mod that makes shadows under trees and other similar things but it crashes a second after loading in. |
| 23:42 |
Samson1 |
Here... |
| 23:43 |
Samson1 |
Failed to load and run script from C:\Users\Samson.COZEN2\Desktop\Portable video games\minetest-5.5.0-win64\minetest-5.5.0-win64\bin\..\mods\plantlife_modpack-master\youngtrees\init.lua: |
| 23:43 |
Samson1 |
...bin\..\mods\plantlife_modpack-master\youngtrees\init.lua:136: attempt to call field 'register_on_generate' (a nil value) |
| 23:43 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> ^ if you want minecraft, play minecraft. If you want a sandbox that you can easily send mods to players, make practically anything easily with a supported api, and easily see what others have made, play minetest |
| 23:43 |
Samson1 |
Trust me, it's the same error on every single other mod inside the pack. |
| 23:43 |
Pexin |
what I would find more interesting is separate worldspaces that can interact with each other. say you build an airship, this is its own worldspace, but that WS geometrically has its own position/orientation relative to the "main" WS, and using distance buffering, the WSes can be composited together. collision would be very very tricky, as would how to handle when a player (for example) jumps out of the |
| 23:43 |
Pexin |
airship |
| 23:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> you dont have biome lib |
| 23:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Even if you're just trying to curate a bunch of mods into a pack/game, there's almost no "zero code" route in MT. Try to put together enough stuff to be non-trivial and you'll start to expose bugs that ultimately require some coding skills to address... |
| 23:44 |
Pexin |
oops, I slipped into engine-talk. sorry.. |
| 23:45 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> Samson1: https://github.com/mt-mods/biome_lib/blob/932485a6fecbdcca9f13782a6e1bfccbc7d142d1/api.lua#L100 exists |
| 23:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Pexin: you could probably do something related with a mod. Take a look at how the portal game on CDB works. |
| 23:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The way open source works, the barrier to entry is not very high, in that you can start making new things of your own pretty quickly ... but it can be a very long road to certain definitions of "success" as things like attention and money are also pretty scarce. |
| 23:49 |
Samson1 |
Well, not so fast. If I wanted to play Minetest I'd play Minetest, if I wanted to play Minecraft I'd do just that. But wishing Minetest didn't have such shockingly bad lighting even by 2003 standards shouldn't have anything to do with being a Minecrafter. Like I've always said, Minecraft has massive disadvantages to Minetest's engine but everything |
| 23:49 |
Samson1 |
that makes Minecraft Minecraft is how bendable it is in almost every direction regardless of whether or not it likes it. Because of that literally anything you do in Minecraft can be more polished. It's my firm belief that if Minetest could ever allow for the polish that MC has and didn't have the limitations it does it would be a far superior game |
| 23:49 |
Samson1 |
purely from a technical point of view. |
| 23:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> "If I wanted to play Minetest I'd play Minetest" doesn't work so well when minetest isn't just one specific thing :-| |
| 23:50 |
Samson1 |
Well, you know what I mean. :) |
| 23:51 |
Pexin |
Warr1024: not clear what portal game you're referring |
| 23:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Pexin, haha, fair, I meant the one that actually has portals in it (Modular Portals) not the one that's highly reminiscent of the theme/setting of Portal (Alter) |
| 23:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> https://content.minetest.net/packages/UnbrokenUnworn/modular_portals/ |
| 23:52 |
Samson1 |
Minetest's engine lets me build the universe you want. No matter what you do in MC it is still MC. There's no escaping that. But what MC can do is immerse you in it almost limitless, and I personally believe that is hinged purely on the graphics. I was actually referring to Half Life. |
| 23:52 |
Samson1 |
So you're correct. :D |
| 23:53 |
Pexin |
just don't spend 1.5 years of your life implementing the entire map of HL1 in minetest. you will sad times. |
| 23:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Minecraft's "immersion" is really only the sensory kind. |
| 23:54 |
Samson1 |
Yes, exactly. |
| 23:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I dunno if MT's engine lets you build the universe I want though, I think it lets you build the one you want :-) |
| 23:55 |
Samson1 |
Minecraft is satisfying to play and satisfying to look at because it's smooth and very well finished, but Minetest has the superior gameplay at practically every corner. |
| 23:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Minecraft has okay gameplay for a certain somewhat casual audience and good visuals, i.e. all the things you'd want to be commercially successful. MT has both much better and much worse gameplay, depending on where you go, and its strength is really in diversity and experimentation. |
| 23:57 |
Samson1 |
Yes. |
| 23:58 |
Pexin |
"THIS IS BEST IDEA!" *punch tree* *break hand* |
| 23:58 |
Samson1 |
However, in Minecraft it's possible to have a bow function as a bow. It doesn't seem possible even for that in Minetest having observed the modding scene for six odd years. |
| 23:58 |
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erlehmann joined #minetest |
| 23:58 |
Pexin |
Samson1: does minecraft have a nuke arrow mod? |
| 23:59 |
Samson1 |
Yes. |
| 23:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Haha, ironically a lot of the praise my own game gets when people first try it is for "realism" in the gameplay, which ironically is not a goal of the project. |
| 23:59 |
Pexin |
oh.. -_- |
| 23:59 |
Samson1 |
Oh, trust me... name something, MC has a mod for it or it's in a mod. |
| 23:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> https://content.minetest.net/packages/SaKeL/x_bows/ |
| 23:59 |
Samson1 |
I saw that the other day! |
| 23:59 |
Samson1 |
I haven't tried it yet. |
| 23:59 |
Samson1 |
:( |
