Time Nick Message 00:28 Samson1 Is there a way to reset the mapgen? 00:32 Samson1 I just invalidated map.sqlite and the world is empty. 00:57 Samson1 Okay, where in the map files is the map gen stated? 00:58 Samson1 In Minecraft the mapgen can be changed via a .conf both in the server and map. 01:08 Yad Samson1: I'm not sure what you mean...if map.squlite is gone, it will be regenerated, no? 01:10 Samson1 No. 01:10 Samson1 Yad I suspect that the mapgen has been overridden so the map won't generate as it expects a mapgen that doesn't exist. 03:00 Gustavo6046 ooooh https://github.com/distil/rust_lua_ffi 09:01 sfan5 !tell Samson1 map_meta.txt has what you're looking for, it's the mg_name setting 09:01 MinetestBot sfan5: I'll pass that on when Samson1 is around 09:14 MinetestBot Samson1: Mar-16 09:01 UTC map_meta.txt has what you're looking for, it's the mg_name setting 09:28 Samson1 sfan5 Thanks! I got it generating again however MT refilled the file with more wrong settings. Eek! 09:31 sfan5 you probably have a mod that sets whatever it thinks is right 09:34 Samson1 Hm, okay. 09:34 Samson1 I just took all of the mods off and it's still doing it. 09:35 Samson1 'mg_biome_np_' is a mapgen isn't it? 09:35 Samson1 And I want 'mgv6_np_' right? 09:36 sfan5 ah well it puts preset settings for all of the mapgens in there 09:36 sfan5 what matters is what mg_name is set to 09:36 Samson1 Wait, now I'm confused. I just deleted it and the new one is using V7? V7 didn't exist when this world was made. 09:37 sfan5 by the way to preserve correct mapgen you want to keep at least the 'seed' setting, so don't delete map meta outright 09:38 Samson1 It's fine, I have backups and I cloned my MT folder hehe. 09:39 Samson1 Is there anywhere I could post the file? I only understand a little of what everything is. 09:40 Samson1 How it works that is, I know what the variables are. 09:40 Samson1 It's 'mg_biome'. 09:41 sfan5 mg_biome is not a map generator 09:41 Samson1 Not a default one at least.. 09:41 sfan5 no, it's not one 09:41 Samson1 Oh, okay. 09:41 sfan5 the 'np' stands for noise parameters and it contains information about the way biomes are generated, this information is used by multiple map generators 09:41 Samson1 Aah. 09:42 Samson1 Um, how would I got about putting a mapgen in it? Seeing as MT replaces the files. 09:43 sfan5 if you want to restore map generation you should take the file you had before and ensure mg_name is set to the right mapgen (v6 as you said) and not e.g. singlenode 09:43 Samson1 Oooh, that's the location? Okay, one sec.. 09:43 sfan5 what Minetest does to the rest of the parameters is not a problem/relevant 09:44 sfan5 you can use pastebin.com for (text) file posting btw 09:45 Samson1 Minetest didn't like me changing it from '= singlenode' to '= V6' 09:46 sfan5 the v should be lowercase 09:47 Samson1 Just trying it again. 09:50 Samson1 Okay, how do I put the pastebin here? 09:51 Oblomov paste the link you get after saving the pastebin 09:56 Samson1 This? https://pastebin.com/50Aps2Wb 09:59 Oblomov Samson1: exactly 10:01 sfan5 looks correct to me 10:02 Samson1 Hmm, okay. Well that's all well and good now, but I still can't get the map to generate. 10:02 sfan5 try //deleteblocks on the area again 10:03 Samson1 I've been doing it in chunks that already exist, nothing. 10:04 Samson1 No wait! It's working!! 10:09 Samson1 Thanks so much! 10:15 Samson1 Hmm, //fixlight isn't working now, it isn't working in the new chunks. 10:19 sfan5 you often have to make the region much bigger than the light bug itself 10:20 Samson1 Ah, okay. 10:24 Samson1 In this case it's all of the newly generated blocks. 10:46 Samson1 sfan5 Is there any way of fixing the lights with a mod? 11:37 sfan5 didn't it work with worldedit 11:37 sfan5 ? 11:37 Samson17 No. 11:38 Samson17 In fact it's making it worse in some areas. 11:38 Samson17 :( 11:39 Samson17 There's more black in the map than any other colour now. 11:40 Samson17 And the gen suddenly decided to make a huge region a snowy biome for some reason, so I have a lot of fixing to do.. 13:01 neko2 hiya all. so I was pondering a thought experiment for a mod involving falling nodes being more useful in contraptions this morning. I realised I'd need some way to have a callback occur _specifically_ when a node turns into a falling node entity. do such callbacks currently exist at all? (I don't see mention of such a thing in the api. I figured maybe a removal callback might fire though, guess I'd have 13:01 neko2 to check that in-game) 13:26 Oblomov sometimes I really wish MT had an in-game top-down view 13:26 neko2 Oblomov: you mean, not the minimap? 13:27 Oblomov I don't mean like the map, I mean for the game itself 13:27 InFerNo__ My kids play Minetest with me on our local LAN server, but they have discovered that they can join online server, they're still too young so I would like to block that, does anyone know what address or IP I can block to prevent Minetest from getting the list of available servers? 13:27 Oblomov you know like you can change the camera? 13:27 Oblomov have one with the camera right above you 13:27 Oblomov fixed 13:28 neko2 Oblomov: I don't know of a way to fixate the camera that wouldn't interfere with some mods for animated player models (the head would be stuck facing downwards) 13:28 Oblomov neko2: MT already has views that are from outside 13:28 Oblomov it shouldn't be too hard to add one at a fixed distance from the player 13:28 Oblomov but on top and looking down 13:29 neko2 Oblomov: well I mean. you can do that already. but mods assume the look direction is tied to the player's view in some way. 13:29 Oblomov so the mouse keeps controlling the character's heading, but the camera doesn't move, only changes xz coords when the player moves, and y coordinates when it goes up/down 13:30 Oblomov neko2: you mean for texts and the like? 13:30 neko2 Oblomov: texts? I don't think I understand where you got that from 13:30 Oblomov neko2: I don't see how the camera position and orientation would effect mods, which are server-side 13:33 Oblomov InFerNo__: by default the server list is fetched from servers.minetest.net, but blocking that won't prevent them from accessing outside servers if they know the url/port 13:34 Oblomov InFerNo__: you want something more drastic, like preventing all out-of-lan connections from minetest 13:35 neko2 Oblomov: cos the client is currently obligated to send the camera look direction to the server. and mods bake that assumption in, so some thing that add custom aim/control mechanisms would totally break if the client camera doesn't align with what is reported by get_look_dir() and so forth on the server. 13:36 Oblomov neko2: the client could still send the “camera look”, except that instead of being a camera look it would be a virtual look direction 13:36 neko2 Oblomov: read what I said more carefully, that could break things 13:37 neko2 what you ask for could be done, it'd just also be a potential api break 13:37 neko2 which means it's not as simple as one would like to think 13:38 Oblomov neko2: I still don't see how. it simply means that the player looking direction would be disconnected from the camera direction. the behavior related to the looking direction would remain exactly the same 13:38 Oblomov e.g. aiming, reach etc 13:38 Oblomov they would simply apply to the player look dir rather than the camera di 13:38 neko2 Oblomov: some mods will be working on the assumption that "look dir = where the real human player is looking/seeing", changing that is an API break 13:39 neko2 there's currently only one variable for mods, with two meanings mixed together 13:39 neko2 separating them is an api break 13:39 Oblomov mods don't need to access the camera dir 13:39 Oblomov they only need to care about the player's look dir 13:39 Oblomov and the client can then remap all info derived from it into the camera space 13:39 neko2 Oblomov: except they already do that, and are free to assume that, because that's how it's always been (and what look_dir currently means) 13:40 Oblomov neko2: and what I'm saying is that I would like to have a camera view setting where the camera view is detached and fixed 13:40 Oblomov nothing would break 13:40 neko2 mods _already_ assume look_dir = player's view dir, so decoupling that has breakage potential. 13:41 Oblomov there is no decoupling 13:41 Oblomov look_dir will remain the player's view dir 13:41 Oblomov the CAMERA view dir would be detached 13:42 Oblomov which is a client-only thing 13:43 neko2 evidently you've never looked into weeping angel mods... when I say view dir I mean camera dir. mods can assume currently that get_look_dir is _both_ where the player is aiming/pointing _and_ where the client side camera is looking. you may not like it, but they can do that right now. your feature request would break that, so it'd be an api break. 13:45 Oblomov neko2: would still work exactly the same way 13:45 Oblomov when the player is looking at the angel it doesn't move, when the player is looking away it starts chaing 13:45 Oblomov chasing 13:45 Oblomov literally nothing changes 13:46 Oblomov you don't even need to update the stuff outside of the player's view angle. fog-of-war 13:47 neko2 Oblomov: but for that to work mods need to decouple their sense of "what the human can see" from "the player's position and their look_dir()", also an API break 13:47 Oblomov hm no? 13:48 Oblomov this is handled entirely client side 13:48 neko2 Oblomov: but hypothetical weeping angels aren't ;) 13:48 Oblomov neko2: so what? 13:48 Oblomov neko2: the meaning of look_dir doesn't change 13:48 Oblomov it's still controlled exactly the same way 13:49 Oblomov something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bUuyYBjXWg 13:49 neko2 either: the server knows, code has to change to know where the detached camera is: API break via function calls. or: it's client side only, and suddenly the mod doesn't know the player can see "behind" where the player's avatar is: the mod falls apart. API breakage by behavioural change. 13:50 Oblomov neko2: the player still cannot see behind 13:50 Oblomov watchthe video I linked 13:50 neko2 Oblomov: so what, you intend to just arbitrarily restrict instead? 13:50 Oblomov restrict what? 13:50 neko2 the camera angles, such that the player can't see behind them 13:51 neko2 arbitrary restrictions don't make for good engine features 13:51 Oblomov wtf 13:51 Oblomov the camera angle is fixed on top 13:51 Oblomov but the rendered scene only includes what's in the player's view angle 13:51 _Zaizen_[m]1 Hi everyone does anyone know where is located the code that renders the client chat? 13:51 Oblomov neko2: did you watch the video I inked? 13:52 Oblomov have you ever played a top-down 2D stealth game or something like that? 13:52 neko2 Oblomov: no, because even from your description that's still a weird restriction (and now it _also_ requires changes to the renderer, that's likely gonna result in the feature not happening) 13:53 neko2 scope creep in general makes things less likely to happen. 13:53 Oblomov there is no restriction 13:55 neko2 Oblomov: minetest's render code has no concept of culling things out that are on-screen but _not_ in an arbitrary FOV cone. that would require a lot of non-trivial work, compared to your original description that sounded more akin to server-controlled freecam (it would _have_ to be server dictated else the client could just freecam to look through walls) 13:56 neko2 (I think it optimises not rendering mapblocks behind you in a coarse fashion and maybe some you definitely can't see anyhow, but it's fairly conservative.) 13:58 neko2 so like. it's either, a simpler idea of server-controlled freecam that is probably doable but would be API break, whether implied or explicit. or, a more complicated feature requiring renderer work which... I don't think is gonna happen, unless you're willing to put in the elbow grease yourself 14:08 neko2 generally worth remembering anything requiring custom draw/render logic is likely gonna be a no unless you can figure it yourself. (and, if it involves low level specialty code, which I suggest a stealth-game-type FOV render cone would require, also making sure it works within the confines of irrlicht) 14:28 erlehmann mods _already_ assume look_dir = player's view dir, so decoupling that has breakage potential. 14:28 erlehmann i disagree neko2 14:28 erlehmann there is already third person backwards view 14:29 erlehmann also cheat clients have had CSM cam for a while as far as i know 14:30 erlehmann Oblomov are you using dragonfire or waspsaliva? surely you can figure it out 14:30 erlehmann and before someone comes with “uh, looking behind walls is cheating” … you know about shadows? people can look around corners using shadows, i.e. infer if someone is there. 14:31 erlehmann also people use third person view to spy around corners all the time 14:32 erlehmann InFerNo__ regarding playing offline just use some firewall thing and ONLY allow the LAN server port 30000 14:33 erlehmann InFerNo__ alternatively, i suggest to play with your kids on an online server together. that way you can supervise them. 14:33 erlehmann and also have some family fun 14:35 erlehmann i have met people who played on the same server as their parents. or in one case, a player was playing on the same server with grandpa. 14:35 erlehmann also you can disable chat with f2 14:36 erlehmann InFerNo__ the server list comes from https://servers.minetest.net/list but you should know that kids are smart and will find ways around it. for example, they can just input the hostname or IP and port directly. 14:37 erlehmann i was a little kid once and tricked my parents and teachers regarding computer stuff! 14:43 Oblomov erlehmann: I'm not using dragonfire or waspsaliva 14:44 erlehmann Oblomov try it out. you might find some stuff useful for vanilla minetest. 14:44 erlehmann for example, last night on a test server for mineclone2 i lagged out when cora produced a lot of particles. 14:44 erlehmann cora did not lag out though, because waspsaliva allows turning particle rendering off 14:45 neko2 erlehmann: fair enough, my weeping angel example is refuted. I still think though the general concept is either "small API feature that incurs breakage no matter how you do it" for the simplest version, or "non-trivial renderer change" if you want the fancy version) 14:45 erlehmann neko2 what? 14:46 erlehmann there is no breakage from allowing more camera angles 14:46 erlehmann players can already see behind them and i have been using it every time someone is asked to follow 14:46 erlehmann to see if they are still keeping up 14:47 erlehmann you know, it can take half an hour to walk to some point in a map 14:47 erlehmann more even 14:47 erlehmann if it is not straight terrain 14:47 neko2 erlehmann: the original question wasn't about seeing behind, it was about fixed top-down decoupled from what the player was pointing at. 14:47 erlehmann that should be easily possible with dragonfire/waspsaliva 14:47 erlehmann with no API breakage i assume 14:48 neko2 you got a link to those? I'm curious to see what it is they're doing (and whether it's actually a massive hack) 14:49 neko2 erlehmann: 14:49 erlehmann neko2 https://repo.or.cz/waspsaliva.git 14:50 erlehmann https://repo.or.cz/waspsaliva.git/commitdiff/9633ad122b4b0f90fa937a0f0df38e488344ddec?hp=b4e475726b0793af1338f0618fac29e4fef69098 14:50 erlehmann fleckenstein made this freecam cheat 14:52 erlehmann neko2, wrong commit, look here: https://repo.or.cz/waspsaliva.git/commitdiff/5a8610c2f41e44c827912246b4f9437051d11621?hp=83f59484d3b03e8964f1c7886dd1a0afd96ddd8d 14:53 erlehmann look for toggleFreecam 14:53 erlehmann surely you can modify this to get a nice top down view 14:53 neko2 oh, so that's not actually a mod, just a client side hack. in which case morals aside, the breaking of any assumptions a mod may make about the actually reported look dir is completely on you and unspecified behaviour. I thought we were talking about a feature one could pragmatically expect to get upstreamed. 14:54 erlehmann i am pretty sure if you make a non-cheaty version of this you can try to get it upstreamed 14:54 erlehmann like, obviously it is cheaty to clip through everything 14:54 erlehmann maybe you should first specify your requirements 14:55 neko2 to be clear, I am not saying "possible breakage means this never gets done"; I am merely saying be prepared for it to be modified/tweaked to take into account core dev concerns. 14:55 erlehmann and again the avatar looks in one direction, the player looks somewhere else 14:57 Oblomov erlehmann: my requirements would be to have something like what intravenous does 14:57 erlehmann what is that 14:58 Oblomov erlehmann: see e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlpilOqlLiY 14:59 Oblomov you still keep your FOV (can use fog-of-war for “not visible anymore stuff” 14:59 Oblomov player-wise, of course 14:59 Oblomov character-wise, to be specific 14:59 Oblomov but you have a top-down view of your surrounding (think minimap when in the open) 15:02 Oblomov the only “cheating” would be that overhead blocks would have to be semi-transparent to show where the user is etc 15:05 erlehmann that's cheating for me 15:05 erlehmann but Oblomov try to experiment with freecam 15:06 Oblomov what's “cheating” about semi-transparent or invisible overhead blocks? 15:06 Oblomov you can make it fully transparent too if they are out of sight 15:07 erlehmann wallhack 15:07 erlehmann also overhead cam means you can look around corners 15:10 Oblomov how is it a wallhack to not render the blocks above? 15:10 Oblomov when you're not looking at them? or make the first layer semi-transparent (see through in the direction towards the player) 15:11 Oblomov it doesn't reveal anything 15:12 erlehmann it reveals what is behind 15:12 Oblomov no, it doesn't 15:13 Oblomov visible block = semi-transparent (so that you can stil see the player), non-visible block = not-rendered 15:13 neko2 Oblomov: I already told you, dynamic hiding of things "behind" the logical FoV of the player avatar isn't gonna happen, you'll need something simpler 15:13 Oblomov the point is that “what is behind” (camera-wise) is the player 15:14 Oblomov neko2: for those you can use fog of war 15:14 Oblomov render them at the last state they were in when seen, until brought back into view 15:16 neko2 Oblomov: I see... so... you gonna write the code for that? because in practice the core devs are unlikely to have time for any nontrivial rendering logic changes (trivial is being used in a programmer's sense here), especially figuring out how to make that fit the holes irrlicht wants everything to fit into 15:17 Oblomov neko2: no, I just expressed a wish 15:17 Oblomov and you dragged the discussion on for hours 15:18 neko2 Oblomov: because your initial description was vague, and hid that what you wanted was way more complex than initially suggested. 15:19 neko2 I was giving suggestion based on a reasonable assumption of a simple initial idea before it blew up, that's on you 15:19 neko2 (reasonable assumption = trying to figure out what you meant) 15:20 neko2 so sure, a wish, fair enough, don't pin this on me though 15:51 erlehmann Oblomov are you trying the freecam? 17:11 jonadab Pexin: Oh, hmm, 2011 is far more recent than I was thinking. I think most RDBMSes had transactions at that point; I think even MySQL had them by then. 17:11 jonadab Not sure about SQLite. 17:20 Oblomov erlehmann: I'm not going to build a fork of minetest just to try the freecam 17:21 erlehmann your loss 18:12 MTDiscord sfan5: I've found https://minetest-mods.github.io, but I don't see any particular application process there. 18:17 MTDiscord https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=13839 was posted by sofar 18:17 MTDiscord Yeah, I'm aware 18:17 MTDiscord That's linked on the site 18:17 MTDiscord I would try contacting him 18:17 MTDiscord But a quick Ctrl + F doesn't bring up something either 18:18 MTDiscord Nah, sofar is only infrequently active 18:18 * sofar waves 18:18 MTDiscord Last active yesterday on the forums... 18:18 MTDiscord oh hey 18:18 MTDiscord Oh wait, that was actually a month ago 18:18 MTDiscord Feb, not Mar 18:19 appguru So you were just lurking all the time it seems 18:19 sofar I'm right here 18:19 appguru Alright sofar, I'd like to apply for minetest-mods membership 18:20 sofar https://github.com/minetest-mods/minetest-mods.github.io/issues 18:20 sofar open a ticket there 18:23 appguru sofar: alright, https://github.com/minetest-mods/minetest-mods.github.io/issues/118 18:24 MTDiscord sofar: I love your skybox mod 19:36 independent56 it turns out that all my problems with running out of memory were fixed by setting the mapgen block limit to around 1000. 19:36 independent56 Yes, it does sometimes lag, but that's fine 20:12 _Zaizen_[m]1 <_Zaizen_[m]1> "Hi everyone does anyone know..." <- Does anyone have some info about this? thanks 20:14 rubenwardy not sure, but I'm guessing chat.cpp or hud.cpp 20:14 rubenwardy also, this rarely happens in this direction, but #minetest-dev :D 20:15 rubenwardy for any more questions 20:18 rubenwardy chat.cpp/h generates an enriched string which is then passed to GameUI::setChatText 20:18 rubenwardy and displayed in m_guitext_chat 20:18 rubenwardy _Zaizen_[m]1: 20:19 rubenwardy src/client/gameui.cpp:229 20:19 _Zaizen_[m]1 rubenwardy: Oh sorry for that, next time I wil use that chat! 20:19 _Zaizen_[m]1 rubenwardy: Thanks! 20:20 rubenwardy I'm guessing you're adding a background option 20:20 _Zaizen_[m]1 rubenwardy: Zughy* 21:03 erlehmann is it possible to place unknown nodes in the world by means of a voxelmanip or something? 21:06 sfan5 probably 21:13 MTDiscord Just using a content ID for which there is no node should work. 21:14 sfan5 well not really, every node must have a name, even if it's unknown 21:14 sfan5 but you might be able to use an ID that's already allocated for an unknown node 21:15 sfan5 but I don't know how far the code checks stuff anyway 22:30 Hawker hey 22:31 Hawker Glad to be here 22:51 Pexin rubenwardy: (...)this rarely happens in this direction(...) XD 22:58 Samson1 I have a question, more about MT as a community if anything. Would MT players donate to keep a server they like running? 22:59 MTDiscord depends how popular it is, and how much you promote the donation link 23:01 Pexin bearing in mind it's pretty hard to build a community on a given server. if you have 5 semi-regular players total (not online at the same time -- total) you are doing quite well 23:02 erlehmann Samson1 people do donate to keep a server running, yes 23:02 erlehmann Samson1 i have seen more servers go down from demotivated or rogue admins than from lack of funding so far 23:03 MTDiscord It can be very irregular. You can have hundreds of players who wouldn't (or even can't) pay a dime, and then one generous donor who will pay the entire hosting cost. 23:03 erlehmann on clamity you'd get a colored username tag for having donated 23:06 Samson1 Oh, I forgot that coloured usernames are a thing now. 23:07 Samson1 Yeah, I think what I will do is 'trial' host on my Pi for a day or two and see how it goes, what do you think? 23:08 MTDiscord your unlikely to get much of anything 23:08 MTDiscord unless you do heavy recruiting 23:08 Samson1 recruiting? 23:08 MTDiscord see serverlists stats, rounded to a whole person, there is about one person for every server on the list on average 23:08 Samson1 Mm, yeah. 23:09 MTDiscord recruiting == go annoy people on discord/irc/matrix/the forums with your cool new server, why they should try it, etc 23:10 MTDiscord and note that probably 1/4 to 1/8 of those players arent even comming from minetest itself, despite the minetest serverlist being obviously biased against it 23:11 Samson1 I successfully got most of Minetest back in the day on my server and it saw a couple of weeks of almost 30 plus players, until that old sodding Areas bug enabled griefers to ruin everything. ?I doubt I'd be that lucky again. 23:11 erlehmann Samson1 if you want a server that is unique, make one with repixture. it is the one high-profile game that is lacking a server. 23:11 rubenwardy took CTF months to get any players, and CTF isn't yet another survival/creative sandbox 23:11 erlehmann also it is relatively peaceful 23:12 MTDiscord Recruiting will draw in people faster than just waiting, but you have to be careful not to annoy people to the point you get in trouble for it. You CAN pick up some traffic just from sitting in the server list, but if you're hoping that turns into funding, expect that to take months, if your server is spectacularly unique and engaging, and years otherwise... 23:12 MTDiscord cough repixture also needs namespacing bad 23:12 erlehmann never going to happen 23:12 Samson1 I'm not familiar with MT game modes, my server isn't like anything in existence in MT though, and I can promise you that. The only thing is, is it a little to different? You know? 23:12 erlehmann well how is it different? 23:13 Samson1 pffff, erm. 23:13 erlehmann or to be meaner: why would anyone want to play there? 23:13 MTDiscord A lot of us have heard "completely unlike anything else out there" a lot of times from various people who ran stuff that was completely like everything else out there, so don't be too shocked at the skepticism :-| 23:14 MTDiscord "why would anyone want to play there?" <-- actually having an elevator pitch on hand is probably a good idea in general... 23:15 Samson1 Full texture overhaul, gameplay overhaul, some lighting, unique map that's beautiful, 100% family friendly environment and ruled with an iron fist. Focused purely on community, economy, medieval/fantasy building and development. 23:15 Samson1 Partly a synopsis, partly not. 23:15 erlehmann ok do it 23:16 erlehmann but “family friendly and ruled with an iron fist” probably needs some brainwashing before ppl like it lol 23:16 erlehmann or your propaganda needs to tone it down 23:17 erlehmann how about ”ruled with a big soft fluffy hand” 23:17 MTDiscord "not like anything in existence" ... and yet the actual product sounds like another soup server, with a lot of the same goals as others. Since your concept is very run-of-the-mill, if you want to attract funding, you'll have to knock it out when it comes to execution. 23:19 Samson1 Well, maybe I can sell it like this: after an awful lot of bans and kicks a new wave of people started coming and were scared of me, but after a short time of asking me whether it was okay if they did this or that, they came to realise that I meant 'I don't care what you do so long as it's within the rules' quite literally. After a while it was 23:19 Samson1 almost like those same players felt completely immune from administration and did what they liked, plus the team helped them with stuff and assisted when they needed. A community grew who I also never saw on any other server weirdly. People from all ages as well. My mind's foggy though, it was many years ago. 23:21 Samson1 erlehmann Hehe, you need to can that phrase! 23:21 Samson1 In all seriousness though, I am being literal but it is a blunt way of putting it. 23:23 Samson1 Oooh! Repixture! I know that, made by Kaadmy right? Or is that the original modpack, I forget. 23:23 rubenwardy Pixture was by kaadmy 23:23 rubenwardy Repixture is a maintained fork 23:24 erlehmann look just make a repixture server and you'll see players 23:24 MTDiscord its wuzzys remake for 5.x 23:24 Samson1 Aah, okay. 23:24 erlehmann it's different enough from normal mod soup 23:24 erlehmann and different enough from the mineclones 23:24 MTDiscord erlehmann: false, there has been at least two in the past two years 23:24 MTDiscord both failed 23:24 erlehmann Jonathon, oh! 23:24 erlehmann failed, as in? 23:24 MTDiscord shut down, mainly because no point in keeping them open 23:24 MTDiscord interestingly, both where run by outsiders 23:25 Samson1 I'll have to bother Kaadmy to update it hehe. 23:25 MTDiscord Having a tight-knit community is a definite positive for a server, but not really something you can "sell" to a broader audience who isn't part of that community and will obviously face barriers to becoming part of it. 23:25 MTDiscord If you want a repixture server to survive you'd probably have to invest quite a lot of yourself into it first. 23:26 MTDiscord you would also have to be good at programing and bug fixing since wuzzy barely updates it 23:26 MTDiscord he seems mostly focused on hades these days 23:26 MTDiscord Samson1: do you really want to have a unique server that people find engaging? Then you will basically want to design a special game. How good are you at modding? 23:27 Samson1 Yeah, I'd never host a Pixture modpack. I always thought it worked best in populated servers, there isn't enough gameplay for singleplayer. 23:27 erlehmann Samson1 be careful, or next you'll design a new minigame for MisterE ;) 23:27 Samson1 Haha! 23:28 MTDiscord If you want to design a game that's unique enough to get people to fund your server, it might have to be a game game, not a mini-game. 23:29 Samson1 I can't program but I can somewhat read LUA, even more so if variables are tagged with explanations. Other than that, I'm a hardcore modder in multiple games and have done a bit of level designing here and there... Sadly though I don't have the time. 23:30 Samson1 Let me just get a picture of my server... One sec. 23:30 MTDiscord If you don't have the time then a server with a lot of unique content and airtight moderation is gonna be pretty hard to accomplish. 23:30 MTDiscord https://notabug.org/MisterE123/prehistoric_prospector/src/master/mods ^ If you give this "game" (not really, yet) a bit of love, it could turn into a special server. It makes ores spawn in veins, and had dinos, and the mapgen is mapgen_rivers: giant mountians, river valleys, huge scale landscape. 23:30 Samson1 I'd love to get a picture of the spawn but I need Plantlife, which crashes on everything in it. 23:30 MTDiscord but you would def need to learn modding to make it work 23:31 MTDiscord latest plantlife + biome libs works just fine for me 23:31 Samson1 Yeah... 23:31 MTDiscord are you sure your using the latest? 23:31 MTDiscord Yeah, whole "I can't program but I can mod" thing had me really scratching my head. 23:31 Samson1 Gathing mods and putting them into a mods folder, or otherwise a Minetest_game Jonathon. :) 23:32 MTDiscord https://github.com/mt-mods/biome_lib and It sounds sort of like "I don't know how to dig a hole, but if there's an existing hole that's full of dirt, I can shovel the dirt out." 23:32 Samson1 Not so much in Minetest, but in Minecraft I have a large knowledge of mods so half the time I don't have to look anything up hehe. 23:33 MTDiscord Okay, so if you're limited to just curating mods and operating what basic config surface area they offer then yeah, I guess you'd be stuck in soup-space, and the only way to make something truly unique would be to find a hidden gem that's been largely overlooked and find a use for it that brings out its brilliance. 23:34 Samson1 Okay, put it this way. I don't understand computer language but I understand english, and I understand variables if it has what they do next to them hehe. 23:34 MTDiscord coughs in outdated and/or wrong comments 23:34 MTDiscord well, lets just say that if you make your run of the mill mod mix, then you wont have a great server. However, it is possible to collect gameplay-changing mods, tweak them, and make a unique server with them. But really, its not gonna work without tons of time in the tweaking and the collecting. You will have to learn basic modding (but secret: its really not that hard) 23:34 MTDiscord In theory it's possible to build an interesting experience without mucking about in code, but you'll be fighting an uphill battle, if your server is open to the public, as every new player who joins is going to bring their preconceptions from the outside world and nudge it back in a "regression to the mean" sort of direction. 23:35 Samson1 I mean... I do have a fully customised 3D armour mod with custom armour and textures in there. xD 23:35 MTDiscord ... that isnt enough to get me excited 23:35 Samson1 Oh the power of copy and paste! 23:36 MTDiscord I mean, you can run paper-and-dice tabletop RPG game sessions inside MT, and that would be a very unique and transformative use of the medium, but it goes against the medium's natural tendencies and thus it would be very hard to make that work in practice. 23:36 Samson1 Sorry Jonathon, I think I'm on the latest. I'm just about to try the link you sent. 23:36 Samson1 Also... Minetest has a Discord?? I wasn't fully paying attention to your username. 23:36 MTDiscord a complete texture redo of the entire game is going in the right direction. but It isnt enough... Start drasticly changing default os that unique and new gameplay emerges; then I will start to notice 23:36 MTDiscord *os -> so 23:37 Samson1 MisterE... You're tempting me to do just that. :p 23:37 MTDiscord Minetest is a big project, it has community spread out across multiple platforms and protocols. 23:38 MTDiscord Samson: one direction you could go is to make ores spawn in veins: 23:38 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/953799441339543592/ores.zip 23:38 MTDiscord discord.gg/minetest if you care 23:38 Pexin create a mapgen that places crashed ancient spaceships. with robot parts you can salvage 23:38 MTDiscord YES 23:38 MTDiscord and the link i sent is the latest 23:39 MTDiscord that is going into new content territory... keep the ideas coming 23:39 MTDiscord a mod that does that is easy btw 23:39 MTDiscord you would need to register schematic decorations 23:39 MTDiscord If you were to want to get me excited about it, you'd have to break some really deep fundamental assumption about the gameplay... 23:39 MTDiscord ^this 23:39 Samson1 Someone needs to create a mapgen that does exactly what Terraforged does in Minecraft. It's hands down the most realistic and beautiful mapgen I have ever seen in a game. 23:40 erlehmann cool do it 23:40 Samson1 Of course you wouldn't be able to have the custom config that Terraforged has though. You can config the map gen with a fully fledged preview of what it will look like as well. Amazing stuff. 23:40 MTDiscord The only game for MT that's in the "sandbox" genre and still broke the mold enough to get me excited about it was ColourHop. 23:41 MTDiscord ... my thought process on that goes like: if minecraft has it, and you want it exactly the way minecraft does it, why do it in minetest? why not play minecraft? Id rather see new idea, or new takes on old ideas 23:41 Samson1 Really I think what Minetest needs first is a lighting overhaul. 23:41 Samson1 It's a shame the engine is so limited in that aspect. :/ 23:41 MTDiscord We have to work with what we have for now, though there are still interesting things you can do with it. 23:42 Samson1 Yeah, haha! I downloaded a mod that makes shadows under trees and other similar things but it crashes a second after loading in. 23:42 Samson1 Here... 23:43 Samson1 Failed to load and run script from C:\Users\Samson.COZEN2\Desktop\Portable video games\minetest-5.5.0-win64\minetest-5.5.0-win64\bin\..\mods\plantlife_modpack-master\youngtrees\init.lua: 23:43 Samson1 ...bin\..\mods\plantlife_modpack-master\youngtrees\init.lua:136: attempt to call field 'register_on_generate' (a nil value) 23:43 MTDiscord ^ if you want minecraft, play minecraft. If you want a sandbox that you can easily send mods to players, make practically anything easily with a supported api, and easily see what others have made, play minetest 23:43 Samson1 Trust me, it's the same error on every single other mod inside the pack. 23:43 Pexin what I would find more interesting is separate worldspaces that can interact with each other. say you build an airship, this is its own worldspace, but that WS geometrically has its own position/orientation relative to the "main" WS, and using distance buffering, the WSes can be composited together. collision would be very very tricky, as would how to handle when a player (for example) jumps out of the 23:43 Pexin airship 23:44 MTDiscord you dont have biome lib 23:44 MTDiscord Even if you're just trying to curate a bunch of mods into a pack/game, there's almost no "zero code" route in MT. Try to put together enough stuff to be non-trivial and you'll start to expose bugs that ultimately require some coding skills to address... 23:44 Pexin oops, I slipped into engine-talk. sorry.. 23:45 MTDiscord Samson1: https://github.com/mt-mods/biome_lib/blob/932485a6fecbdcca9f13782a6e1bfccbc7d142d1/api.lua#L100 exists 23:46 MTDiscord Pexin: you could probably do something related with a mod. Take a look at how the portal game on CDB works. 23:49 MTDiscord The way open source works, the barrier to entry is not very high, in that you can start making new things of your own pretty quickly ... but it can be a very long road to certain definitions of "success" as things like attention and money are also pretty scarce. 23:49 Samson1 Well, not so fast. If I wanted to play Minetest I'd play Minetest, if I wanted to play Minecraft I'd do just that. But wishing Minetest didn't have such shockingly bad lighting even by 2003 standards shouldn't have anything to do with being a Minecrafter. Like I've always said, Minecraft has massive disadvantages to Minetest's engine but everything 23:49 Samson1 that makes Minecraft Minecraft is how bendable it is in almost every direction regardless of whether or not it likes it. Because of that literally anything you do in Minecraft can be more polished. It's my firm belief that if Minetest could ever allow for the polish that MC has and didn't have the limitations it does it would be a far superior game 23:49 Samson1 purely from a technical point of view. 23:49 MTDiscord "If I wanted to play Minetest I'd play Minetest" doesn't work so well when minetest isn't just one specific thing :-| 23:50 Samson1 Well, you know what I mean. :) 23:51 Pexin Warr1024: not clear what portal game you're referring 23:52 MTDiscord Pexin, haha, fair, I meant the one that actually has portals in it (Modular Portals) not the one that's highly reminiscent of the theme/setting of Portal (Alter) 23:52 MTDiscord https://content.minetest.net/packages/UnbrokenUnworn/modular_portals/ 23:52 Samson1 Minetest's engine lets me build the universe you want. No matter what you do in MC it is still MC. There's no escaping that. But what MC can do is immerse you in it almost limitless, and I personally believe that is hinged purely on the graphics. I was actually referring to Half Life. 23:52 Samson1 So you're correct. :D 23:53 Pexin just don't spend 1.5 years of your life implementing the entire map of HL1 in minetest. you will sad times. 23:54 MTDiscord Minecraft's "immersion" is really only the sensory kind. 23:54 Samson1 Yes, exactly. 23:55 MTDiscord I dunno if MT's engine lets you build the universe I want though, I think it lets you build the one you want :-) 23:55 Samson1 Minecraft is satisfying to play and satisfying to look at because it's smooth and very well finished, but Minetest has the superior gameplay at practically every corner. 23:56 MTDiscord Minecraft has okay gameplay for a certain somewhat casual audience and good visuals, i.e. all the things you'd want to be commercially successful. MT has both much better and much worse gameplay, depending on where you go, and its strength is really in diversity and experimentation. 23:57 Samson1 Yes. 23:58 Pexin "THIS IS BEST IDEA!" *punch tree* *break hand* 23:58 Samson1 However, in Minecraft it's possible to have a bow function as a bow. It doesn't seem possible even for that in Minetest having observed the modding scene for six odd years. 23:58 Pexin Samson1: does minecraft have a nuke arrow mod? 23:59 Samson1 Yes. 23:59 MTDiscord Haha, ironically a lot of the praise my own game gets when people first try it is for "realism" in the gameplay, which ironically is not a goal of the project. 23:59 Pexin oh.. -_- 23:59 Samson1 Oh, trust me... name something, MC has a mod for it or it's in a mod. 23:59 MTDiscord https://content.minetest.net/packages/SaKeL/x_bows/ 23:59 Samson1 I saw that the other day! 23:59 Samson1 I haven't tried it yet. 23:59 Samson1 :(