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IRC log for #minetest, 2022-03-12

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:23 MTDiscord <jordan4ibanez> Wow that's an unfortunate name for a library
00:27 erlehmann jordan4ibanez what, i2p?
00:28 erlehmann jordan4ibanez i have been using a python module literally called “buttplug” to get the rumble support, i doubt it can get much worse :P
00:31 MTDiscord <jordan4ibanez> Haha I was referring to libcaca but i2p sounds a little off too
00:32 MTDiscord <jordan4ibanez> Oh my goodness, they could have named it anything haha
00:42 Soni what's wrong with i2p?
00:45 MTDiscord <savilli> what about libass?
00:47 erlehmann best name is still libowfat, because you can link your programs with -lowfat
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05:38 Oblomov erlehmann: but that's intentional, IIRC
05:39 Oblomov in the caca case, it's just an acronym
05:39 Oblomov color ascii coding something iirc
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15:58 MTDiscord <Warr1024> aa = ascii art, so since caca adds color, I always assumed it stood for "color ascii color art" :-)
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16:06 definitelya Is ASCII just modern UTF, and we keep calling it ASCII, even though it's not?
16:08 erlehmann definitelya it is done using escape codes for coloring and ASCII characters as far as i know
16:08 definitelya erlehmann: Ah thanks
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17:30 Yad Just a sanity check here: in IPv6 is `fe80::` equivalent to `192.168.` in IPv4?
17:31 sfan5 you have simplified the details too much for there to be a correct answer
17:32 Yad sfan5: Thank you. The broader question is: How can I be sure an IPv6 address is on my router's LAN?
17:34 sfan5 IPv6 has private address space which would come close to telling "LAN or not" just by looking at the IP but most setups do not use any
17:35 MTDiscord <savilli> fe80:: is not equivalent to 192.168.0.0/16, fe80::  is link-local. If it's equivalent to smth, it's 169.254.0.0/16
17:35 sfan5 IPv6 hosts will have public addresses such as 2001:db8:1:abcd:55d4:858b:98af:d48b which look no different whether they're in your LAN or at the other side of the world
17:36 Yad Fascinating. It's just unnerving because the only way I know that the address I'm looking at is on my LAN, is that it's throughput is too fast to be on the WAN.
17:36 sfan5 now if it's for debugging purposes you can certainly check if it's on your LAN, read the routes your machine has and compare whether it matches an on-link route
17:37 Yad sfan5: Are you implying it's a job for Wireshark? :)
17:37 sfan5 or simpler, on Linux: `ip r get 2001:db8::` and check if there's a "via" component
17:37 MTDiscord <savilli> A common approach for ipv6 networks is using public ipv6 addresses for every device. But if you really want a private address, you should use fd00::/8
17:38 sfan5 Yad: no wireshark needed
17:38 Yad savilli: The basic problem is that I don't know how to turn off IPv6 in Android.
17:38 MTDiscord <savilli> why do you want to in the first place?
17:38 Yad savilli: To use IPv6? I don't want to.
17:39 Yad savilli: I would turn it off at the router level if I were authorized to do so.
17:39 MTDiscord <savilli> that's stupid, ipv6 is neat
17:39 Yad savilli: I would have thought so except it's insufficiently dynamic.
17:39 sfan5 oh I forgot to elaborate: "via" -> routed, it's (likely) not LAN, "via" -> on-link, it's LAN
17:40 MTDiscord <savilli> wdym dynamic?
17:40 Yad savilli: To easy to see that you're talking to the same device later on.
17:40 sfan5 no "via" * for the last
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17:40 Yad *too
17:40 sfan5 btw there's an #ipv6
17:41 Yad savilli: Addresses never need to get re-used, cycled, changed, whatever you like to call it. There are more devices than IPv4 addresses, so they provide an insignificant but non-zero amount of security through obscurity. (Sorry if this is getting off-topic for Minetest)
17:42 MTDiscord <savilli> Yad: that's not true, in a good IPv6 network you choose your address randomly
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17:43 MTDiscord <savilli> if you have such problems then smth is configured badly
17:43 Yad savilli: Hmm, well that's good news. So IPv6 could actually provide *more* security through obscurity by using an address never used before, every few hours, for example?
17:44 Yad (Since there are enough addresses for millions per square meter of Earth's surface.)
17:45 MTDiscord <savilli> yup
17:45 Yad savilli: Wow, well that changes my feeling entirely.
17:45 MTDiscord <savilli> if you're interested, we're using IPv6 only client networks for years and never have such problem
17:46 Yad savilli: Never had a problem with an address getting re-used? But how often is a new random address assigned?
17:46 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I probably would have adopted IPv6 when it was still new, if it hadn't been for all the "flaw found in the X component of IPv6" stuff I read about back then where it left me thinking "why is X even part of IPv6?"
17:46 Yad Warr: Yeah I first heard of IPv6 in 2004 lol
17:47 MTDiscord <savilli> Literally how often you want. You can configure your IPv6 router to renew it.
17:47 MTDiscord <Warr1024> That was about the time that most of the world said "okay, I guess we'll wait for you to fix all the problems then", leaving only a handful of die-hards saying "okay, now THIS time we're sure we've got it.  Guys?  Hello?"
17:48 Yad savilli: Spiffy. In a situation where I'm not the router admin though, should I disable IPv6 on my Linux machines connected to the router?
17:48 Yad Warr: Heheheh
17:48 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Even if IPv6 becomes large-scale dominant at this point, it'll still be decades before it completely supplants v4...
17:49 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Once upon a time I used to entirely disable IPv6 on my machines whenever an obvious way to do so was available, but I have found it's a bit more complicated than that and causes unexpected problems, like localhost resolving to ::1...
17:50 MTDiscord <savilli> I would prefer to ask your admin approach. But surely you should disable it if it's not secure enough.
17:50 Yad This is fascinating because it means in theory a device could send a packet, which also included the next new IPv6 address, so that the recipient would know where to send the reply packet.
17:50 Yad savilli: "if" but yeah thanks I tend to think so too
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17:52 independent56 Ever since i updated the server, snap broke and now minetest won't run my server.
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17:52 independent56 2022-03-12 17:52:43: WARNING[Main]: Couldn't find a locale directory!
17:52 independent56 2022-03-12 17:52:43: ERROR[Main]: Error writing configuration file: "/home/independent56/worldtest/world.mt"
17:52 independent56 2022-03-12 17:52:43: ACTION[Main]: Server: Shutting down
17:52 independent56 2022-03-12 17:52:43: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: Failed to initialize world: Failed to update the config file
17:52 MTDiscord <savilli> Warr1024: that's why we don't disable IPv4 on our machines, only in our network
17:52 Yad independent56: "won't run" or "won't run on"?
17:53 independent56 Won't run on, sorry
17:53 Yad independent56: :)
17:53 independent56 The hardware runs my server, minetest runs on the server, but the Minetest server runs on minetest.
17:54 Desour independent56: you could increase the debug log level
17:54 independent56 Good idea
17:56 independent56 https://pastebin.com/g6fAmD4J
17:56 independent56 Oh and also, i ahve to use sudo now because of "snap-confine has elevated permissions and is not confined but should be. Refusing to continue to avoid permission escalation attacks"
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18:07 definitelya independent56: What's wrong with cloning/ downloading Minetest from GitHub? I bet you'd have less headaches than with snap. ^^
18:07 independent56 Good idea
18:07 independent56 sudo snap remove minetest
18:07 definitelya f
18:07 Desour wrong window
18:08 independent56 I was quoting my SSH client
18:08 independent56 I have heard from my English lit teacher that quoting makes you look smart :p
18:08 definitelya independent56: It does!
18:10 Desour btw looking at fs::safeWriteToFile, it looks like minetest couldn't write to a tmp file (as there was no warning, it has to be one of the upper return false;s)
18:16 independent56 Finally, Minetest is giving errors which i can fix. Thanks, git!
18:16 independent56 I just need to download the game.
18:17 independent56 Where is the games directory when downloading from source? is it closer to root, home, or the git cloned minetest?
18:18 independent56 Looking at ls, i am guessing cloned source.
18:20 MTDiscord <luatic> depends on how you compile it?
18:20 MTDiscord <luatic> if compiled with RUN_IN_PLACE, it'll be "in place" = the source folder you're compiling it from
18:20 MTDiscord <luatic> otherwise it'll pick something like ~/.minetest/games
18:21 independent56 Yay, it works!
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18:21 independent56 Perfectly, with commands taken directly from readme
18:27 sfan5 Yad: the default IPv6 configuration is to choose temporary addresses on common Linux distros and has been for a while
18:30 Yad sfan5: well that's good to hear! I didn't realize the OS could control that; I thought it was determined by the router.
18:31 sfan5 both can influence it, sort of
18:31 Yad oooh
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20:18 independent56 Is it possible to dynamically register nodes, like as soon as a mapblock with that node is loaded, the node is registered?
20:19 independent56 Because then that can prevent hitting the node limit with mods which make thousands of nodes, each of which may only be used once
20:19 independent56 Extra points for the unregistered nodes being in the inventory.
20:26 MTDiscord <luatic> Not possible.
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20:33 independent56 Makes sense
20:33 independent56 But it would be cool, if unstable and dangerous in production
20:33 independent56 *even if
20:54 independent56 When i try to run my minetest server, most of the mods encounter dependency problems. Do i have to use a set order of loading mods? https://pastebin.com/36TBxm1V
20:56 MTDiscord <Jonathon> your missing baked clay which causes a chain reaction
20:57 independent56 Oh, that makes sense
20:57 MTDiscord <Jonathon> why the heck does 3d_armor depend on bakedclay of all things tho
20:57 independent56 The joints of the stuff :p
20:58 MTDiscord <Jonathon> https://github.com/minetest-mods/3d_armor/blob/master/3d_armor/mod.conf#L3 looks like its opional
20:58 MTDiscord <Jonathon> means you probably got one of those nasty optional deps being turned into hard dep issues
20:59 independent56 load_mod_bakedclay = true
20:59 independent56 and minetest/mods/bakedclay is a directory
20:59 definitelya Jonathon: Oh god, that can happen?
21:00 MTDiscord <Jonathon> i think smalljoker/krock's PR to fix that is in 5.6
21:01 independent56 I have built the version as of a few hours ago
21:02 independent56 And when i removed "bakedclay" from the mod.confof  3d_armour, still broken.
21:02 MTDiscord <Jonathon> hold the phone on my last comment, im not seeing it in the minetest commit history, let me go look at open prs
21:02 MTDiscord <Jonathon> assuming it didnt get roadmapped or some dumb thing like that
21:03 independent56 I removed it from the mod.conf in the wrong place xd
21:03 definitelya Yeah it sounds pretty annoying...
21:03 MTDiscord <Jonathon> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11438 here you go
21:04 MTDiscord <Jonathon> has two approvals (author is dev and one other dev approval) dunno why it isnt merged
21:04 independent56 Removed it correctly now, and now the JRE error is showing up on top. I will try bumping up the advtrainsmodpack in world.mt
21:06 independent56 Nope, that didn't work
21:13 independent56 Ok, so removing admin_modpack and wieldview allows the server to start, albeit without the errorful mods
21:13 sfan5 how did you break it so bad
21:14 independent56 I didn't, it broke itself
21:15 independent56 https://pastebin.com/f1C29Chy
21:16 independent56 And a  more modern version for reference: https://pastebin.com/NkrRW99z
21:26 independent56 Why do these mods even depend on each other? steles should have nothing to do with technic
21:27 independent56 it's that soft -> hard dependencies bug again.
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21:35 independent56 I'll tell you what happened. I update the server > breaks snap > tries to fix > breaks snap more > installs minetest from source > takes mods directly from search engine using world.mt to know which ones > encounters error > now
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22:54 independent56 Turns out pipeworks and basicmateriels was causing the dependency issues
22:54 independent56 now basic_materials has a flaw.
22:58 MTDiscord <Jonathon> ...which is?
22:59 independent56 That the git repo was a mod backw ith some sound api. using my local version and FTP,imanaged tofix it.
22:59 independent56 But now a lot of advtrains nodes have corrupted  in terms of rotation.
23:00 independent56 But that's fine, it'sonly a smallpercentage of the network.
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23:01 independent56 How do i  find the name of unkown items in the inventory?
23:03 MinetestBot [git] appgurueu -> minetest/minetest_game: player_api: Fix crash for players without model a6f3b89 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/a6f3b895963e3a4feba035ca0578c18aa86a645d (2022-03-12T23:02:40Z)
23:10 independent56 https://imgur.com/a/wYJjQLi
23:10 independent56 This is the only corruption i have seen thus far
23:11 independent56 A few points broken on my balloon loops.
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