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IRC log for #minetest, 2022-01-22

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:29 fluxionary is the mesecons queue API documented anywhere, or do i have to read the source code?
00:29 fluxionary (yes, i've done a cursory google)
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00:46 cheapie Well, connecting to a server running plain MTG over dialup worked fine... time for Dreambuilder :P
00:48 cheapie Item definitions are certainly taking a while.
00:48 cheapie (I did connect to the same server over not-dialup already, so when it gets to media it *should* already be cached)
00:52 cheapie It is making progress, it's been on node defs for a few minutes now.
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01:05 fluxionary cheapie, dialup like 56k over a 28.8 voice line? does anyone even even run such an setup anymore?
01:05 cheapie Well, it does kinda work and I was able to (slowly) wander around for a bit, but it does run into the issue where the server just decides to not send any mapblocks any more after a while.
01:05 cheapie (same issue that happens over normal connections, just happens faster)
01:05 cheapie fluxionary: 33.6k over a line simulator.
01:05 fluxionary is this just for fun, or ?
01:06 cheapie Just for fun, yes
01:06 fluxionary i thought 33.6 relied on compression too, why not 56?
01:07 cheapie Compression is separate, these are the uncompressed speeds.
01:07 cheapie V.90 and V.92 require a digital modem on the receiving end (hooked up to the digital backbone of the phone network and all that), without that V.34bis is the fastest you can go.
01:07 cheapie s/receiving/answering/
01:09 fluxionary yeah, i thought v.34 was 28.8?
01:09 fluxionary but is has been 20 years since i've thought about this stuff
01:09 cheapie V.34 is 28.8, V.34+/V.34bis is 33.6
01:11 cheapie In this case this is a V.90 modem calling a V.92 one, but since they're both connected to what appears to be an analog telephone line, the answering modem limits itself to V.34bis at most.
01:13 fluxionary seems you know this stuff better than i do, but i'm quite amused, thanks for bringing me down memory lane :)
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02:02 Yad Does anybody use Eclipse Lua Development Tools?
02:02 Yad I'm looking for any editor which lets me do code folding in Lua.
02:02 MTDiscord <Jonathon> no
02:02 MTDiscord <Jonathon> use vscode or whatever fork of it
02:03 Yad Johathon: VSCodium, yes I use that.
02:03 MTDiscord <Jonathon> it has code folding, a ton of lua extensions, and a minetest extension
02:03 Yad Johathon: But it, like all others I've tried, refuses to hid `end` statements when folded, unless I indent them to the same level as the block they are ending
02:04 Yad "Minetest (5.4.1) Lua API code autocompletion" wow that looks really interesting! Thanks for mentioning it.
02:06 Yad Jonathon: With the way VSCodium does code folding, I'm concerned my pull requests will get rejected by the Minetest repo maintainers.
02:07 MTDiscord <Jonathon> ....huh
02:10 Yad Jonathon: I mean I have to indent.
02:11 Yad Jonathon: People won't like that.
02:11 Yad Jonathon: Even I would prefer not to.
02:11 MTDiscord <Jonathon> or ya know stop complaining about one extra line 🤷
02:12 Yad Jonathon: One extra line for every block.
02:12 Yad Jonathon: So if I have a list of ten functions, every one of them has a line with "end" on it breaking up the symmetry when folded.
02:13 Yad Jonathon: And that's 20 lines for 10 functions.
02:13 MTDiscord <Jonathon> i think your making it into way to big of a deal than it actually needs to be
02:13 Yad Jonathon: Do you actually write Lua?
02:14 Yad Jonathon: Someone pointed out to me that if the code needs to be folded, there's probably too much in one file. xD
02:14 Yad Jonathon: which is a good point, in terms of object-orient programming
02:14 MTDiscord <Jonathon> na, i write minetest mods with magic
02:15 MTDiscord <Jonathon> code doesnt ever need to be folded
02:15 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I write all my minetest mods in auL.  I just have to hold a mirror up next to the screen.
02:15 MTDiscord <Jonathon> its a convince things
02:15 Yad Well I just have to warn everybody that my `end` statements, and `}` and `)` when they appear on their own line, will be preceded by an extra tab character :P
02:15 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I've used code folding extensively when I worked in C#, but in my MT mods I've only ever hit it by accident.  I think it just depends on the project.
02:16 Yad Warr: That's the spirit! xD xD xD
02:16 Yad Warr: Oooh, interesting!
02:16 Yad Warr: Yeah I just find it much easier to mentally organize what I'm doing when I only unfold the block I'm working on.
02:16 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Lua really wants you to keep scopes small and not leak identifiers all over the place, and to me that lends itself to multiple files naturally.
02:16 MTDiscord <Jonathon> how to avoid code being to long: dont support nodecore :trollface:
02:17 MTDiscord <Warr1024> So I basically only unfold the block I'm working on by designating certain blocks as files :-)
02:17 Yad Warr: That's a good point considering the heavy use of `local` and having to pass variables into functions within the same register_node and such
02:18 Yad Jonathon: Yeah NodeCore is quite something. xD I'm glad it exists though, to provide a greater variety of perspectives on how to do a Minetest game.
02:18 MTDiscord <Warr1024> If I declare something like local cache = {} that's supposed to be only accessed by one function, I'll wrap the local and the function in a do ... end block.  Splitting out those top-level blocks into multiple files reduces the amount of indentation I have to look at :-)
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05:19 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> I don't ever fold my code, I just mark sections with comments
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06:31 Yad Benrob: Thank you for participating in my informal poll. :)
06:44 SwissalpS are the positions passed to minetest.emerge_area() in node- or block-coordinates?
06:48 SwissalpS I'm assuming nodes, as in the callback signature api.txt explicitly specifies blockpos
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11:44 MinetestBot [git] Zughy -> minetest/minetest: Allow resetting celestial vault elements by leaving its arguments emp… 37d8078 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/37d80784ddfc0ff07baee214570c80dc5dd92ca7 (2022-01-22T11:42:49Z)
12:27 erlehmann mineclone2 rickroll https://i.imgur.com/YAlVvAC.jpg
12:36 MTDiscord <Sublayer plank> is it animated? :D
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13:04 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Benrob: I actually used to do the section-comment thing before, and eventually found that I was using the comments to mark "keeper" code that I was confident was "finished" as opposed to experimental code that was subject to change.
13:05 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Then I ended up realizing that any/all of my code was subject to being completely thrown out anyway, so now my code has very few comments; generally only to describe exceptional rationale for something being the way it is.
13:05 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Actually a lot of my comments have basically moved into git blame, and I now treat the repo history and metadata as PART OF the finished product.
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13:06 MTDiscord <Warr1024> That basically means that "open source" necessarily means "open repo" because the "preferred form for editing" of my code is actually in the context of a git working tree with access to the full history.
13:07 MTDiscord <Warr1024> It's a good thing it's MIT-licensed and not GPL in that case, since that would trip people up a lot XD
13:10 erlehmann Warr1024 wdym trip a lot of ppl up?
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13:16 definitelya erlehmann: I think you fell into his trap... :)
13:19 erlehmann definitelya, are you sure this picture is not part of mcl2 proper? http://en.wipikedia.org/wiki/MineClone2
13:20 definitelya erlehmann: Sorry, I was talking about Warr.
13:21 erlehmann definitelya uh, so then go look at http://en.wipikedia.org/wiki/NodeCore instead i guess
13:21 definitelya wait... wipikedia?
13:21 erlehmann damn you and your reading comprehension
13:22 definitelya bruh
13:22 definitelya Who do you take me for?
13:22 erlehmann definitelya https://mister-muffin.de/p/I1CJ.png
13:23 MTDiscord <Sublayer plank> aw man I thought you had misspelled wikipedia so I fixed it to check if there really was a wikipedia article for nodecore
13:23 definitelya Sub plank: ik me too. xD
13:23 erlehmann nah it is a rickroll
13:24 MTDiscord <Sublayer plank> yeah I see that now
13:24 MTDiscord <Sublayer plank> but firefox doesn't autoplay youtube videos. hah!
13:24 definitelya erlehmann: plus, gives me bad cert error, weird.
13:28 MTDiscord <Warr1024> By "trip people up" I mean that when licenses like the GPL say "preferred form for editing" they don't take into account that the author may have designed the project in which the preferred form for editing code is not necessarily the one that people commonly assume it is.
13:28 MTDiscord <Warr1024> So basically that means that if NodeCore were GPL software, it would have been arguably a GPL violation to distribute the source in the form of a tarball of the latest code tree, because the preferred form for editing needs to include the history.
13:28 erlehmann Warr1024 you can specify that though
13:29 erlehmann also it is possible to make a git archive hehe
13:29 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Yeah, I'd have to specify it.  I'm not actually sure how, of course.  I see a lot of code out there that's GPL where they just slap a copy of the GPL into a LICENSE or COPYING file and don't even bother with a (C) statement so you can't even tell WHO is licensing it to you.
13:31 MTDiscord <Warr1024> The edition of NodeCore on CDB wouldn't be GPL-compliant either, because it's trimmed down.  The source of NodeCore includes stuff like blender files, and is about 12MB.  The repo history is about double that.  The distribution version of NC though is about 1MB since all the non-lua stuff is compiled-version-only.
13:32 erlehmann this reminds me that Mineclonia still has not figured out how to convert the blender models to minetest models programatically
13:32 erlehmann you have any input on that?
13:33 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Hahaha, I just last night got outside help to fix the NC player model in the first place.  I know approximately squat about blender, modeling, and especially animation.
13:34 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I would not be surprised if blender had automation options, but I would also not be surprised if it were a huge pain to get them to work on e.g. a CI build worker or something.
13:35 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Almost all my generated stuff is semi-automatic at best in NC.  I keep sources for some things, like SVG for some of the vector graphics, but manually bake them to PNG and commit the "compiled" versions too.
13:35 erlehmann yeah, what a shame that minetest can not load svg
13:35 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Having an automated build process would be fancy, but it would also probably break the way a lot of people work on most MT stuff, i.e. by running a git checkout directly in MT, if I depended too much on automation and didn't include compiled versions in the repo.
13:36 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I sometimes wonder how development for Loria works, since it's written in Fennel and needs to be compiled to Lua...
13:41 definitelya erlehmann: I am very smoothbrained.
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15:17 f-a hello. When I move forward with ‘w’, I cannot change direction with the trackpad. Is that a feature?
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15:19 MTDiscord <Sublayer plank> not a feature with minetest but a feature of your operating system, more specifically its palmrejection functionality
15:19 MTDiscord <Sublayer plank> you might want to disable it if it causes issues (which it more than often always does >.>)
15:19 MTDiscord <Warr1024> OS or possibly even hardware/firmware
15:47 f-a thanks
15:48 f-a debian linux here, will check what I can do
16:11 Calinou happy 10th birthday, Minetest 0.4_20120122! It was the last 0.4 prerelease to not feature support for playing sounds
16:12 f-a o/
16:18 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Fix consistency of sky sun/moon texture behaviour f8cef52 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/f8cef52ea07de6a6ccaa6f9a853a8e5ccaaff4ce (2022-01-22T16:18:34Z)
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17:52 MinetestBot [git] x2048 -> minetest/minetest: Make sure nightRatio is always greater than zero. 71317b8 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/71317b8579385142c2a1cbad70a68cf661408855 (2022-01-22T17:52:12Z)
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21:21 Guest62 hi! Can someone help me with worldpainter's plugin for minetest?
21:21 Guest62 n.n
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21:27 f-a I have got a simple problem. I have mined a lot to reach some cave underground
21:27 f-a and now I am full of blocks I have no use for
21:27 f-a is there a way to get rid of those?
21:27 f-a not just throw them away, obliterate them from the face of Earth
21:28 sfan5 /pulverize
21:29 f-a do I need to pass parameters to that? what will it pulverise?
21:29 sfan5 the stack you are holding
21:30 f-a thanks, it works
21:32 calcul0n if you have the pipeworks mod the trashcan let you trash stuff with a simple shift+click
21:34 f-a pulverize is ok
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23:33 sfan5 when did the irc channels disappear from discord?
23:34 MTDiscord <Jonathon> they didnt
23:34 sfan5 well I no longer see them
23:35 MTDiscord <Jonathon> probably a part of @GreenXenith perm edit to keep muted people muted
23:35 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> if you havent spoken then you wont be able to see them
23:36 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> unfortunate side-effect of awful discord permissions system
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23:36 MTDiscord <Jonathon> you need to at least be a lurker (rank) to chat in them so not the worst
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23:54 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Or I can give you the core dev role, but that has other disadvantages ;]
23:56 MinetestBot [git] v-rob -> minetest/minetest: Bump formspec version (#11980) 95a775c https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/95a775cd3ae5a8281289acb36391b9ef27cc574d (2022-01-22T23:55:43Z)
23:56 MinetestBot [git] TurkeyMcMac -> minetest/minetest: Cancel emerge callbacks on shutdown 1b2176a https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/1b2176a426dd987795f20e9042a8d79f958b7b44 (2022-01-22T23:56:17Z)

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