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IRC log for #minetest, 2022-01-01

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Time Nick Message
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00:41 Yad celeron55: Have you used minetest mapper before? I have, and yet trying to build it just now I'm getting "libgd not found"
00:43 Yad now trying ~$ sudo apt-get install -y libgd-dev
00:45 Yad yeah looks like I had some unmet dependancies
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01:23 Yad my work-around is that I'm now using the win32 build in a Windows 8.1 virtual machine
01:29 GreenXenith The 2021 Minetest Game Jam results are in! Thank you so much to everyone that participated and contributed to this event!
01:29 GreenXenith 3rd place: Little Lady by Just_Visiting/ExeVirus https://content.minetest.net/packages/Just_Visiting/littlelady/ ($144)
01:30 GreenXenith 2nd place: Subway Miner by AFCM https://content.minetest.net/packages/AFCM/subway_miner/ ($216)
01:30 GreenXenith 1st place: Alter by yaman https://content.minetest.net/packages/yaman/alter/ ($360)
01:30 GreenXenith Congratulations to the winners, and congratulations to everyone that made an awesome game!
01:30 Yad Yay!
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01:47 MCL GreenXenith: Is there a full list of results? (with places past 3rd)
01:47 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Ah whoops forgot to link it
01:48 MCL No worries, that's OK
01:48 MCL I can wait
01:48 GreenXenith Full results: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/GreenXenith/minetestgamejam/master/2021/results.png More details comming soon at https://github.com/GreenXenith/minetestgamejam/tree/master/2021
01:48 MCL Thank you!
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04:39 cheapie Random "fun" Luacontroller program to play with, expects a digilines noteblock on channel "nb" and a mesecons button on any pin, requires latest digistuff: https://gist.github.com/cheapie/8bf9dcdf85cf4cc4f1349f5957689f64
04:39 Yad cheapie: Thanks for sharing. :)
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06:02 scara Is there a way I can see what a button does and change / remove it? For instance [space] teleports you up, [drop] drops an item.
06:03 Yad scara: There is very much a menu for that, if that's what you're asking, yes.
06:04 scara for modding I meant. Sorry I was in the modding mindset, forgot this was general purpos.
06:04 Yad scara: Main Menu > Settings > Change Keys
06:04 Yad scara: Oh, you mean is there a way in the Lua API to see what the user has assigned to various keys?
06:04 scara No I want to see what code is running.
06:05 Yad scara: Code as in key-code?
06:05 scara This is the X Y problem, let me rephrase.
06:05 scara I want to spawn items on the ground, I also want to disable jumping.
06:05 Yad scara: Both of those things are very possible. :)
06:05 scara I think minetest.add_item might be it.
06:06 Yad scara: are you familiar with the lua_api.txt documentation?
06:06 scara A little. I'm still new!
06:07 Yad Well as long as you know that's the place with the most up-to-date documentation, then you're on the right track. ^^v
06:07 scara I have played with lua before, its very intuitive.
06:07 scara Yea but searching is difficult. took me 15 minutes to find the spawn items thing.
06:07 Yad Hmm, well I don't find the way it manages the scope of variables, but it is a good fit for registering lists, which we need in Minetest. :)
06:08 Yad Yeah you'll need some vocabulary probably.
06:08 MTDiscord <exe_virus> Scara, please try this book to get started: https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/index.html
06:08 Yad Such as how we say nodes, objects, entities, players, etc.
06:09 Yad exe_virus: Good suggestion! I've used that reference volume myself in the past as well. :)
06:09 MTDiscord <exe_virus> That will get you 95% of the way to where you want to be
06:09 MTDiscord <exe_virus> Read from front to back and play with mini-mods to test out each section, you'll be better than half the modders in the community if you do
06:09 scara Oh yea that book looks helpful, thank you!
06:10 Yad :)
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08:24 scara Can I get the name of a variable? if a = "hello" and b = a, print b will say "hello" but how do I get a from b?
08:25 Yad scara: I don't understand the logical underpinning of your question. You're saying you've already got the value of a from reading b.
08:26 scara But I want to get "a" from the variable b.
08:26 scara Let me show you the real code so it gives more sense probobly
08:26 Yad scara: Thanks.
08:26 scara 5 function loadlevel(level)
08:26 scara 4 |       minetest.place_schematic(vector.new(0,0,0), schems..level..".mts")
08:26 scara 3 |       -- Dunno what pairs or _ does but code seems to not work without it...
08:26 scara 2 |       for _, fruit in pairs(levels[level].fruits) do
08:26 scara 1 |       |       for _, c in pairs(fruit) do
08:26 scara 45  |       |       |       minetest.chat_send_all(c.x.." "..c.y.." "..nameof(fruit))
08:26 scara 1 |       |       |       --minetest.chat_send_all(fruit)
08:26 scara 2 |       |       |       --minetest.add_item(vector.new(c.x,1,c.y), "bad_icecream:"..fruit)
08:26 scara was kicked by ShadowBot: Message flood detected. Use a pastebin like paste.ubuntu.com.
08:27 scara joined #minetest
08:27 scara https://foxes.are.allowed.org/dccb.txt
08:27 scara I keep forgetting the pastebins lols.
08:27 scara Anyway.
08:27 Yad xD
08:27 scara nameof(fruit) doesn't work.
08:29 scara Yad: here is more context https://lainsafe.delegao.moe/files/EguTbICJ/tmp.gk0oeajqjF.txt
08:29 Yad scara: So is nameof(ObjectRef) a function you have defined?
08:30 scara No its a object.
08:30 scara nameof() doesn't exist in vanilla lua aparently.
08:33 Yad scara: Indeed, so where is the definition of nameof()?
08:34 Yad And can you please basetbin code without line numbers and pipe symbols, so I can just paste it into my own code-coloring editor. xD
08:34 scara nameof does not exist. I need something that works. nameof was something I saw on the internet when I did research but it didn't work.
08:34 Blockhead256 scara: What you're describing is a metaprogramming/reflection technique, and you don't need those very often
08:34 scara lol I just copied it from vim. thats how my vim looks.
08:34 Blockhead256 instead of _, v in pairs(table) assign an actual variable to the key value
08:35 Yad scara: It's get_name()
08:35 Yad fruit:get_name()
08:35 Blockhead256 for name, value in pairs(fruit) do ... end
08:35 Yad Lua has both a . and a : operator
08:35 Blockhead256 and replace nameof(fruit) with just `name`
08:36 scara Blockhead256: You're useing term I don't understand, I never really "program", I useualy just write dash scripts but this is ehh a game and I don't want to ehh make that in shell even if it was possible.
08:37 Yad scara: Also using underscore as a variable name seems...precarious.
08:37 scara It didn't work without the _
08:37 scara I'm not a programmer. I just picked it up today a few hours ago.
08:37 Blockhead256 using an underscore in the construction `for _, y` in pairs is a convention for when you don't want to use the key value
08:37 Yad "without"? Do you mean without, or with a different variable name?
08:38 Yad scara: Yes, you're learning to be a programmer by having this conversation :)
08:38 scara I mean remove "_, " from it and it doesn't work.
08:38 scara Sounds like you're bullying me :(
08:38 Yad Blockhead256: Lowercase letters such as i, j, and k, seem like more of a convention there.
08:39 Yad scara: Not bullying...think more of a martial-arts metaphor. :)
08:39 Yad scara: sparring with you to build your mental muscles
08:39 scara Tone hardly translates well in text.
08:39 Yad scara: The locus of control is within you.
08:39 Blockhead256 Yad: the convention in many places is usually `i` for a for level of looping, and `j` for a second level. The convention in lua when you want to iterate a table and don't care about variable names is `for k,v in pairs(table)`
08:40 scara friot:get_name() didn't work
08:40 Blockhead256 by that convention k means key and v means value.. (but more semantic names are better)
08:40 Yad Blockhead256: Looks good to me. Mostly anything but an underscore which could be mistaken for an operator instead of a variable. xD
08:41 Yad scara: I would imagine the function doesn't have access to fruit.
08:41 Yad scara: But I'm fairly sure : is the operator for functions, while . is the operator for variables.
08:41 Blockhead256 : is a special syntax for function calls with is for acting more like an object-oriented language
08:42 scara :O I figured it out.
08:42 scara The _ wasn't useless after all.
08:42 Yad scara: I didn't say it's useless, I said it's dangerous. :)
08:42 Yad scara: Use a variable there, yes, but call it something.
08:42 Yad scara: Underscore looks like an operator.
08:43 scara well https://lainsafe.duckdns.org/files/164102657981119.txt works
08:43 Yad scara: Of course you can use what you like, I'm just cautioning you to develop habits for avoiding confusion later.
08:43 scara I spent a long time researching this.
08:43 Yad scara: Why is there a different domain name each time you paste something? xD
08:43 scara Yad: If you have a better way, please tell me but I'm a bit confused by some of the terms you use.
08:43 Yad scara: Just having fun trying out different pastebins?
08:44 scara Yad: I have a script that uploads files. I can quickly upload anything and it choses a random nullpointer to upload to.
08:44 Yad scara: Yes, vocabulary practice is very important. It's a mental workout for me also.
08:44 Yad scara: Fascinating, so it picks a random pastebin?
08:44 scara Yad: curl this if intrsted: https://lainsafe.getimiskon.xyz/files/gxswgPwS/upload-file
08:45 scara The speed of the command line!
08:45 Yad L)
08:45 Yad * :)
08:45 scara I see you use hex
08:45 Yad Hmm?
08:45 scara hexchat
08:45 Yad How do you see that?
08:45 scara also lol why do I get your ghz and kernal info xDD
08:46 scara CTCP reply from Yad: VERSION HexChat 2.14.3 / Linux 5.4.0-74-generic [x86_64/3.20GHz/SMP]
08:47 Yad Why would you be using client-to-client protocol?
08:48 Yad Not that I'm not proud to use HexChat, but perhaps I need to improve its security!
08:48 scara Why are you useing a client-to-client protocol? I have it disabled.
08:48 scara is 5.4 even new
08:48 scara I got 5.15
08:48 Yad I assumed HexChat had it disabled by default.
08:48 scara NOPE
08:48 Yad Apparently I was mistaken.
08:48 scara All the clients have it enabled by default.
08:49 Yad Thank you for alerting me to this.
08:49 scara Well it isn't really security related but you can disable it if you want.
08:49 scara Also update your packages!
08:49 Blockhead256 scara: It doesn't matter particularly what your kernel version is unless you need support for the latest hardware.. linux distributions backport security fixes to older kernels
08:50 scara dunno, as long as their is no cve there should be no problem but still, update yo stuff!
08:50 Yad scara: Yeah that's an effect of relying on the Linux Mint repositories. They don't get updated very often. I've been using a lot of Flatpak applications these days, including Minetest.
08:51 scara NOOO flatpak. The insecure stupid distribution mess. You should ONLY use 1 package manager, its literly the package managers job to manage your packages and that gets a bit difficult when you use multiple.
08:52 Yad scara: Are you suggesting Flatpak's sandboxing of applications is ineffective?
08:52 Yad scara: Less effective than apt-get's...entire lack of sandboxing?
08:53 scara I'm by no means an expert and in no way qualified to answer souck question but it is my understanding from what I have heard that firejail runs as root and it some how easy to break into but thats about it. look at mantilains insecurities (yes i know meany typos)
08:54 scara Flip flob so meany errors in my spelling today.
08:55 scara s/mantilanins insecurities/madaidans-insecurities.github.io/(I suck at spelling)
08:56 Yad scara: HexChat automatically includes spellchecking in the input textbox. :P
08:56 scara Yad: more exactly / dirrect link: https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/linux.html#firejail
08:56 Yad scara: Thank you, I'll keep that topic under investigation going forward.
08:58 scara Also I just don't understand why people keep makeing these universal package managers, it makes my blood turn into boiling redbull. I just get so irrasionally angry.
08:58 ROllerozxa I can't fathom why people's first reaction when they have a distro with outdated official repositories is to throw more package managers into it
08:58 scara To quote someone I forgot who is: "gcc -static"
08:59 Yad ROllerozxa: I wouldn't mind getting rid of apt-get. xD
09:01 ROllerozxa Arch Linux sure gets memed a lot but it's one of the only distros that actually get this right. Its repositories is as up to date as you can get, and there are buildscripts (AUR) to automatically package on-demand basically everything else you would want. And that gets then installed through your system's package manager, no flatpak or the like.
09:01 Blockhead256 apt-get is one way to call apt (I use `apt update` btw not apt-get), which is only a frontend for dpkg. And you ain't putting your OS inside snap-pack-appimage-docker-9000tron-whatever
09:02 ROllerozxa apt-get is a variation of apt usually for scripting purposes, apt is what you should use for interactive use, but apt-get is not necessarily deprecated as some people may think
09:03 Yad Blockhead256: I tend to say apt-get in IRC to avoid confusion with the English word apt.
09:04 Blockhead256 Yad: It's usually pretty clear to me as a native speaker what is a noun and what is an adjective..
09:05 scara ROllerozxa: 1 thing arch could do to be a little more awesome would be if you could have multiple versions of a package installed because not all packages get updated at exactly the same time so that can actually break a few packages if you can't also have older versions of some librarys installed.
09:05 Yad Blockhead256: plain-text though...in Telegram for example, I would use a fixed-width font for technical names.
09:07 ROllerozxa scara: So a rebuild of the broken packages wouldn't work?
09:07 scara Yad: A quick bounce back to flatpack, if you sroll up a bit there is a section dedicated to flatpack and not just firejail.
09:08 scara ROllerozxa: It would but if you update some packages will the other half still hasn't been rebuilt or if some package still doesn't support a newer version of a library (Whitch I've heard happens alot but not expirenced it myself) it will break.
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09:20 ROllerozxa scara: The official repository packages always (within a margin of human error ofc) gets rebuilt for library changes, AUR packages will need to be rebuilt manually though (might take a minute or two), only thing would be proprietary software you can't rebuild from source but they usually come bundled with statically linked libraries anyways, for better or for worse.
09:21 ROllerozxa Granted I will in fact admit it's not 100% perfect, I can remember at least one time I did a duct tape library symlink to fix a -bin AUR package
09:21 scara ROllerozxa: But if a package in the arch repo requires an older version? IDK, I still want multiple library version support.
09:22 scara Also when building software myself, in that case it may be even more nessesary.
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13:22 definitelya Is 5.5.0 the beefiest MTE update after the 5.0.0 one?
13:23 definitelya Or maybe there were bigger than 5.0.0.
13:26 MTDiscord <exe_virus> Neither are big, that is all
13:27 definitelya Interesting, thanks
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14:19 f-a is there a way to inquire/display the name/function of the block that is currently pointed at?
14:20 ROllerozxa In-game or for the Lua API?
14:21 f-a ingame
14:21 f-a storytime: I decided to went full gollum and when I hit an unminable block I had to ask a friend what that was
14:22 ROllerozxa You would be able to see it in the debug information, press F5 to view it (if you're on 5.5.0-dev you can only see the pointed node itemstring if you have the basic_debug privilege)
14:22 f-a thanks
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14:25 calcul0n__ the replacer mod also has an node inspection tool for that
14:39 f-a more Qs: is there away to have A/D as *rotate* left/right instead of strafe left/right?
14:42 MTDiscord <j45> i dont think you can without a mod
14:43 f-a thanks
14:43 f-a I just need to buy a mouse :P
14:44 f-a (I mostly use keynav in my day to day activities)
15:40 MTDiscord <exe_virus> NodeCast, an unofficial Minetest Podcast, is releasing it's second episode!  (only like 2 weeks late... thanks Game Jam)  Check it out either on youtube (and subscribe): https://youtu.be/boGcB4H5-WA  or through my personal cloud host (please don't overwhelm the bandwidth, haha):  https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZQYoaXZ1VLNWFBUtDRIpg7GOdaj3JHT2Hyy  The show notes will be placed here in a few days:
15:40 MTDiscord https://github.com/ExeVirus/nodecast/tree/master/episodes/show_notes  Thanks for checking it out!
15:42 Teckla exe_virus: Listening to/watching it now :)
15:42 MTDiscord <exe_virus> Thanks! Make sure to listen to the first if you haven't 😉
15:42 Teckla For sure!
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16:35 Teckla exe_virus: Listened to both available episodes.  High quality content.  Very interesting.  Thanks!
16:38 MTDiscord <exe_virus> Hey thank you! That was fast, glad you enjoyed them
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18:06 f-a is there a command that makes you die/respawn?
18:08 definitelya With server permission, do /kill
18:08 definitelya Check out /help as well
18:09 f-a thanks
18:09 definitelya np!
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18:12 f-a also are you people aware that if I use some unicode chars I get an «invalid wide string» error?
18:12 f-a i.e.  …  instead of  ...
18:14 sfan5 Minetest version?
18:14 sfan5 much of these issues should be fixed in 5.5
18:15 f-a client: Minetest 5.5.0-dev-0c4929f (Linux)
18:15 f-a server: I don’t know
18:18 celeron55 nice recommendation for my youtube channel on nodecast
18:18 celeron55 it's almost like i scripted it myself
18:18 MTDiscord <j45> Lol
18:23 MTDiscord <exe_virus> Well, celleron55, Ironically I was only aware of your old channel on the minetest.net link, apparently whatever you streamed on yesterday was a new channel?
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18:23 MTDiscord <exe_virus> I can make a correct next ep if you want a better recommendation
18:24 celeron55 i mean, that's the channel
18:24 celeron55 a complete trash dump of a channel, but i'm proud of it
18:26 MTDiscord <Jonathon> question: is floatlands "stable" enough to use a game feature
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18:35 celeron55 btw, looks like the music of build'n'buy caused a copyright claim on the stream video
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18:36 celeron55 youtube says it's AleXZavesa - Fashion Breaks (Main Version)
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18:37 MTDiscord <Jonathon> @j45 ^
18:37 MTDiscord <j45> I got it from a website saying it was CC0
18:38 definitelya The algo knows best.
18:39 celeron55 it did detect the music correctly, it's right there like is said in bnb_core/sounds/README.md https://pixabay.com/music/search/mood/?movement=fast&amp;genre=upbeat
18:39 celeron55 but where does this say CC0
18:40 Yad celeron55: Ah I remember you mentioning music during the livestream yesterday. :)
18:40 MTDiscord <j45> "Free images, videos and music you can use anywhere Pixabay is a vibrant community of creatives, sharing copyright free images, videos and music. All contents are released under the Pixabay License, which makes them safe to use without asking for permission or giving credit to the artist - even for commercial purposes."
18:41 celeron55 that's the license https://pixabay.com/service/license/
18:41 celeron55 it's not CC0, it's basically just the kind of license you'll find on a page like that
18:41 celeron55 each a bit different
18:42 MTDiscord <j45> Stull shouldnt be causing a copyright claim
18:42 MTDiscord <j45> *still
18:43 celeron55 if it was CC0, i could dispute the copyright claim, but i don't think this gives me the right
18:43 sfan5 is "used for free" meant to imply "we won't try to monetize your content"?
18:43 MTDiscord <j45> I probs just assumed it was CC0 when i got it cuz it said like no attribution required, can be used for free
18:43 MTDiscord <luatic> It's not CC0 unless it explicitly says CC0.
18:43 MTDiscord <luatic> This license does resemble CC0, but it isn't the same.
18:43 MTDiscord <j45> Cant u dispute even if it is pixabay license??
18:44 celeron55 i wonder if there are reprecussions if i try to dispute this and youtube decides i'm wrong
18:45 celeron55 i suppose it's not worth it
18:45 celeron55 just use an adblocker on youtube, problem solved
18:46 MTDiscord <j45> i doubt they would punish for trying to dispute
18:47 MTDiscord <j45> "Repeated or malicious abuse of the dispute process can result in penalties against your video or channel" from https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2797454?hl=en-GB this wouldnt be repeated/malicious abuse of it
18:52 MTDiscord <j45> AleXZavesa uploaded the music there so it isnt like someone just copied it from elsewhere and uploaded it there (https://pixabay.com/music/upbeat-fashion-breaks-11302/) so they must have agreed to the license
18:54 rubenwardy f-a: /killme
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18:56 MTDiscord <j45> im trying to message the producer of the audio, im very sorry for all this celeron and i have updated the readme file
18:56 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Youtube contentid is a mess; there are tons of scammers who register other peoples' work as their own and there are almost no repercussions.  Only people who have gotten away with millions have so far apparently been punished.
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18:57 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I think I've had to file disputes with evidence on like 50% of the streams where I used meticulously-vetted CC music and it's just not worth the hassle anymore.
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18:58 celeron55 well, i filed the dispute
18:58 MTDiscord <j45> i hope it works out, welp
18:59 celeron55 none of this really matters though, youtube kind of sucks anyway (it's understandable though, they have to make their money somehow)
18:59 definitelya rubenwardy: oh shoot, my bad
19:00 celeron55 (youtube of course makes money out of the scams too)
19:00 celeron55 (so why care)
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21:07 f-a I have mapped `keymap_dig` to x
21:07 f-a but once I press it it does not seem to stop digging
21:15 scara I can't find register_item in https://raw.githubusercontent.com/minetest/minetest/master/doc/lua_api.txt
21:15 MTDiscord <j45> do you mean minetest.register_craftitem ?
21:16 scara dunno. I saw register_item, I'm trying to edit the hand so I can't pick up stuff, also make it invisible.
21:19 MTDiscord <j45> oh, in that case you can do like:  minetest.register_item(":", {     type = "none",     wield_image = "air.png",     wield_scale = {x=1,y=1,z=1}, }) to make it invisible but im not sure for making you unable to pick up stuff
21:19 MTDiscord <j45> maybe it isnt air.png, im not sure
21:21 f-a is X reserved to something else?
21:21 MTDiscord <luatic> Why don't you document that :P
21:22 MTDiscord <j45> it is basically just the item defenition table
21:23 MTDiscord <Jonathon> you cant actually do this
21:23 MTDiscord <Jonathon> register_item is only internally
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21:26 MTDiscord <j45> well :worksforme:
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21:43 scara @j45 wield_scale did nothing, also where is the doc? I couldn't find it in that document.
21:46 scara nvm got it
21:47 MinetestBot [git] ShadowNinja -> minetest/minetest: Print announce error response (#11878) 29d2b2c https://git.io/JSkSV (2022-01-01T21:44:56Z)
21:47 MinetestBot [git] Zughy -> minetest/minetest: Better document sky_color scope (#11892) 8910c7f https://git.io/JSkSw (2022-01-01T21:46:00Z)
21:52 scara Is "array = ["hello"]" not valid? I get an error.
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21:54 MTDiscord <luatic> You must use curly braces for "arrays" in Lua.
21:54 ntnsndr In formspecs, is the correct thing scrollbar_container or scroll_container? I have seen both...
21:57 MTDiscord <Jonathon> i have only seen scroll_container, got a link to where scrollbar_container is used?
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