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IRC log for #minetest, 2021-10-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 Menchers would you remove the infinite water behavior to make pumps more useful?
00:00 Menchers not much need for a pump now, can carry two buckets to the top of a mountain and have infinite water up there
00:02 Gustavo6046 oh dear sorry my network's being a bit nuts today, what was the last message that sent?
00:02 Gustavo6046 I may take this opportunity to neat up a little on the words that I wrote so ADHD-ly prior
00:02 Gustavo6046 oh, pumps would be more like parts of other machines
00:03 Gustavo6046 could be used, say, in a water tower
00:03 Gustavo6046 so this water tower would have a pump as an energy input, and an adjustable flowrate canal with water turbines as an energy output
00:03 Gustavo6046 it'd essentially be an energy buffer
00:03 Gustavo6046 and heavier liquids are harder to pump up but produce more energy as they go down
00:03 Gustavo6046 so this water tower would have (A) a pump component, (B) a water turbine component, (C) possibly components that convert between this mechanical energy and whatever other kinds of energy may be desired by the player
00:04 Gustavo6046 and of course the water reservoir at the top might be expandable, idk how that'd work
00:04 Gustavo6046 yeah maybe the hydraulics / fluid machine simulation part would have to be separate
00:04 Gustavo6046 but, say you have a nuclear reactor producing massive amounts of energy with each run, but it's not producing consistently
00:04 Gustavo6046 you can plug up this water tower buffer to it, with a big enough water reservoir
00:04 Gustavo6046 maybe up to a lake of finite fluid, idk
00:04 Gustavo6046 it'd just spin the pump super fast and fill the reservoir about halfway or 3/4ths of the way with each run of the reactor
00:04 Gustavo6046 but then you could adjust how fast you want water to flow back down to convert into a steady outflow of energy
00:04 Gustavo6046 this could be made Technic compatible!
00:04 Gustavo6046 and if it goes well, it could potentially replace Pipeworks or even Technic itself as you can have an incentive to research new machine components and actually do schematics and stuff
00:19 MTDiscord <MisterE> can a minetest server be re-built from source in-place? It is currently a 5.4 server, can I rebuild in place?
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00:33 Menchers rebuild in place?
00:33 Menchers you mean without a restart? no
00:33 Menchers Gustavo6046, I do really like the idea of small machines that can be composed together into a larger more useful machine :D
00:35 MTDiscord <MisterE> I mean rebuild minetest from source without having to build elsewhere and then copy the files
00:53 Gustavo6046 :D
00:54 Gustavo6046 Menchers: if it were to replace technic it'd "provide technic" and the existing nodes would be replaced by "default component trees"
00:54 Gustavo6046 same goes to Pipeworks
00:54 Gustavo6046 although the latter could break the finite fluid thing I was thinking about too
00:54 Gustavo6046 and also being able to only push liquids so far before needing more pumps
00:54 Gustavo6046 (although that could be another screw pump advantage - they can extend arbitrarily provided enough energy to move their weight)
00:55 Menchers MisterE, you can definitely do that
00:56 Menchers you can set RUN_IN_PLACE in cmake's configuration
00:56 Menchers run the server directly from the source tree
00:56 MTDiscord <MisterE> I know... but if it has already been built...
00:56 Menchers then you can fetch updates, rebuild the server while it's running, then just restart it to deploy it in seconds
00:56 MTDiscord <MisterE> ok great!
00:56 Menchers did you get it from git?
00:56 MTDiscord <MisterE> yes
00:57 MTDiscord <MisterE> im on openbsd but I have good instructions for building from source taht I know work
01:29 Menchers openbsd!
01:29 Menchers yay
01:29 * Menchers uses the open beastie
01:32 Menchers huh it turns out my crash problem is a resurgance of the same problem I had before on the same server https://menche.us/files/minetest.txt
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02:27 MTDiscord <MisterE> do 5.3 clients recieve dynamic media?
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02:28 MTDiscord <MisterE> Menchers: if you are trying to build minetest on openbsd, here are the instructions: https://wiki.ircnow.org/index.php?n=Openbsd.Minetest
02:29 Menchers I have it built on openbsd :D
02:29 Menchers and it usually works
02:29 Menchers just having a weird crash issue lately
02:30 Menchers but in only happens on a specific server, very intermittently
02:31 MTDiscord <Jonathon> no
02:32 MTDiscord <MisterE> oh too bad ok thx
02:33 MTDiscord <MisterE> that is indeed a weird error
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02:34 MTDiscord <MisterE> that is indeed a weird error
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04:20 MTDiscord <MisterE> if anyone is interested: my mod that adds dynamically sent and individual background music, based on environment: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=27361&amp;p=401190#p401190
04:20 MTDiscord <MisterE> only for servers, and only for 5.5 dev +, clients 5.4+
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05:56 MTDiscord <MisterE> i keep having
05:56 MTDiscord <MisterE> oops
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08:43 Kiwi yoyo
08:43 Kiwi GUYS
08:43 Guest2368 ANYONE KNOWS MEE
08:43 Guest2368 f
08:43 Guest2368 f
08:43 Guest2368 f
08:43 Guest2368 was kicked by ShadowBot: Message repetition flood detected.
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08:44 Guest2368 whos shadow
08:44 Guest2368 I LOVE SHADW
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08:56 Guest2368 sad
08:56 Guest2368 sorry
08:56 Guest2368 bye
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13:17 MTDiscord <MisterE> hey, I just upgraded my server to 5.5 dev and some of my clients are timing out. Im sure its not the new mod I added, since I disabled it and it keeps happening. Any clue as to how to start debugging this?
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13:27 macaw Hey. I do not have minetest on my machine right now, but the general advice would be to look at the logs, see where something reports Errors and consider whether they are the cause.
13:28 macaw If the clients are timing out, you may have to connect a client yourself (to the server) and look at the clients' logs.
13:41 celeron55 the fastest way to get an idea would be to download some different client versions your users use a lot and just try it out
13:41 celeron55 it's not likely the server logs show much in a timeout case
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14:17 MTDiscord <MisterE> well they werent timing out when it was 5.4... hmm
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15:33 MTDiscord <MisterE> ok I tried it with 5.4.1 which people said they were using... but I got no lag. Regardless, they continued to get lag. Notes about it:  the lag disappeared when I teleported to them  it reappeared when they logged off and then on
15:33 MTDiscord <MisterE> also Mineman said he cant join
15:33 MTDiscord <MisterE> I am switching back to stable-5.4 for now 😦
15:36 MTDiscord <MisterE> if you have any concrete ideas about how to work this out then I would switch back
15:37 sfan5 you can enable verbose output and hope it contains something useful, but that doesn't help directly
15:39 sfan5 other than that it would be useful if you had a rough idea when the bug was introduced (does it happen on 5.5-dev from one month ago? what about two months ago?)
15:39 MTDiscord <MisterE> oh
15:39 MTDiscord <MisterE> thats a good idea
15:39 MTDiscord <MisterE> the problem is that I cant get lag
15:40 MTDiscord <MisterE> only me players do
15:40 MTDiscord <MisterE> *my
15:40 MTDiscord <MisterE> so they have to test it
15:45 MTDiscord <MisterE> sfan5: any suggestion for which commit to start at?
15:46 sfan5 you can specifically test before fd8a8501bc26dfca2a93d51000867b8592210040
15:50 MTDiscord <MisterE> ok building that commit's parent commit now
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15:52 AristotIe in the linux terminal if I do `git clone --depth 1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest.git` I get minetest 5.5.0-dev, what would the url be to get minetest 5.4.0?
15:53 MTDiscord <MisterE> you should clone the whole git repository and then checkout the branch or commit you want to use
15:53 AristotIe so that would be...
15:54 AristotIe *I'm not very farmiliar with github*
15:55 MTDiscord <MisterE> 1) build mt irrlicht 2) $ git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest.git 3) $ git checkout stable-5 or git checkout master<- for latest dev version
15:55 MTDiscord <MisterE> 4) build minetest
15:56 AristotIe ah, thanks
15:56 MTDiscord <MisterE> between 2 and 3, $ cd minetest
15:56 AristotIe yeah
16:01 AristotIe huh, when I do step 3, it says `error: pathspec 'stable-5' did not match any file(s) known to git`
16:04 MTDiscord <MisterE> please paste the commands you did in order
16:04 AristotIe well
16:05 AristotIe `git clone --depth 1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest.git`
16:05 AristotIe `cd minetest`
16:05 MTDiscord <MisterE> sfan5: Mineman says that he was not able to join, when the server was on latest 5.5dev. I just built 5.5dev from commit https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/ea250ff5c57301b6ea3e529c811484c743c1fde1 and mineman was able to join
16:06 MTDiscord <MisterE> Aristotle, im unsure about that --depth 1
16:06 sfan5 AristotIe: re-do the clone command with -b stable-5 (delete the folder first)
16:06 sfan5 when you have --depth 1 checking out other branches may not work
16:07 AristotIe MisterE: well, I was just trying that, so I'll continue with that and then if that doesn't work, I'll refer back here
16:08 AristotIe I assume it worked this time, it gave me these 2 lines: `Branch 'stable-5' set up to track remote branch 'stable-5' from 'origin'.`
16:09 AristotIe Switched to a new branch 'stable-5'
16:09 independent_ Where did this all go wrong? my server crashes when i set some routes! I need to compeltely re-interlock this stretch of track
16:11 independent_ I feel like XKCD #1084
16:11 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1084 -- Add InvRef::get/set_lists() by ShadowNinja
16:17 MTDiscord <MisterE> sfan5: I can confirm that that commit causes the bugs
16:17 MTDiscord <MisterE> no more lag problems
16:18 sfan5 I know how my commit is related to timeouts but lag problems are new to me
16:18 sfan5 can you be more specific how those manifest?
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16:25 MTDiscord <MisterE> so i do not experience lag, but mec404 would join, then after a few minutes, lag would start to build up. Then he would time out
16:26 MTDiscord <MisterE> but strangely, when I teleported to him, his lag stopped completely
16:26 MTDiscord <MisterE> until he logged out and then on again when I was not on the server anymore
16:26 MTDiscord <MisterE> 2 other players were unable to join the game at all
16:27 MTDiscord <MisterE> but now that I reverted to the parent of that commit, everyone can join and has no more lag than normal
16:27 MTDiscord <Jonathon> is there a way to disable the hand completely?
16:29 sfan5 the visual part or the "the player can interact with things" part?
16:31 MTDiscord <MisterE> you can overwrite the hand definition
16:31 MTDiscord <MisterE> or make a new tool and set that as the hand
16:31 MTDiscord <Jonathon> well, to explain, im trying to make a player only be able use a items on_place, setting the hand inventory to the item works (and main to 0), but in the hand inventory, on_place is not called. if hand inventory is set to nothing, and main is set to 1, and the item added to main, the player can still rotate over to the hand even though it doesnt exist
16:34 sfan5 sounds like you're not setting the hotbar size
16:36 independent_ Mostly fixed now.
16:36 independent_ I hate it when my infastructure breaks down
16:37 MTDiscord <Jonathon> thanks sfan5
16:39 MTDiscord <MisterE> any hope for fixing this bug soon?
16:39 MTDiscord <MisterE> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/896436763550183454/unknown.png
16:40 MTDiscord <MisterE> where attached players' models are blown up
16:41 MTDiscord <Jonathon> attached is set to the same scale as the root
16:41 MTDiscord <Jonathon> you can just set it to the proper one after attaching to work around it
16:42 MTDiscord <MisterE> yes and draconis does that but anotehr mod is doing something to conflich with it
16:43 MTDiscord <MisterE> it would be better if the bug was just fixed in the engine
16:43 sfan5 "fixing" it would break all mods that apply the workaround currently
16:44 MTDiscord <MisterE> heh ok
16:44 MTDiscord <MisterE> maybe in 6.0
16:44 MTDiscord <MisterE> tho even then maybe not
16:44 MTDiscord <Jonathon> if your going to fix that, should fix models of ents being 10 units to small
16:45 MTDiscord <MisterE> yeah so scaling the model in blender would fix it
16:45 MTDiscord <Jonathon> but as sfan5 said, break sompat
16:45 MTDiscord <MisterE> ?
16:45 MTDiscord <Jonathon> *breaks compat
16:45 MTDiscord <MisterE> yeah so scaling the model in blender would fix it?
16:45 MTDiscord <Jonathon> or using visual_sacle
16:45 MTDiscord <Jonathon> *visual_scale
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16:46 MTDiscord <Jonathon> its easier to fix in blender if your using attachments so that the attachements dont need to be resized
16:46 rubenwardy for this, you typically have a transform per entity (position / rotation / scale) that applies to all children, and a per-entity adjustment that only applies to itself
16:47 MTDiscord <MisterE> so its not a bug
16:47 rubenwardy it's misleading and badly implemented
16:47 rubenwardy the feature should be implemented as a transformation matrix on the entity, rather than an object property. And then a separate way to scale without scaling children
16:48 rubenwardy it's possible to fix this without breaking compat by making a new property for just scaling the entity and not its children
16:48 rubenwardy network compat may be tricky. I guess you could calculate the old visual_size from the new transform and scale bet eh
16:48 rubenwardy *but
16:54 sfan5 @MisterE if you have time please recompile the latest dev with this patch http://sprunge.us/z6WDeh?diff and report back if the problems appear again
16:55 MTDiscord <MisterE> I dont know how to do that... could you give me a branch of minetest that I can check out?
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16:57 sfan5 https://github.com/sfan5/minetest/tree/temporary
16:57 MTDiscord <MisterE> ok, ill bookmark it, probably will be able to get back to you in within 24 hrs
16:58 MTDiscord <MisterE> players are on the server rn and having fun and I dont want to stop that right now, but later tonight maybe
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17:02 sfan5 sure, thanks
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19:46 * Menchers grumbles discontentedly about all the stupid carriage returns in the irrlichtmt source code
19:50 * Menchers randomly wonders why the [REDACTED] irrlicht implements its own string type
19:51 sfan5 that makes it portable to platforms with no (complete) C++ stdlib
19:52 sfan5 I think the real reason might have been that in early times the C++ standard library (esp. containers and related stuff) was considered bad so people wrote their own
20:09 * Menchers adds a debug printf, wonders why it segfaults immediately now
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20:28 Menchers oh, this object is null
20:28 Menchers why's it calling crap with it? why doesn't this crash on other platforms?
20:28 Menchers dafook
20:34 Menchers huh, the clouds are now textured with the font map texture
20:34 Menchers wat
20:38 sfan5 ?!
20:43 Menchers I am very stressed right now
20:43 Menchers this code is not good for my mental health
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20:44 Menchers I will have more to ask about once I finish this debugging session…
20:46 Menchers *sigh*
20:46 Menchers the crash is always at irr::video::ITexture::getDriverType
20:46 Menchers line 256
20:46 Krock re-compile Irrlicht and Minetest. ensure that Minetest uses the correct library
20:47 Menchers E_DRIVER_TYPE getDriverType() const { return DriverType; };
20:47 Krock i.e. correct ldd output paths
20:47 Menchers (irr::video::E_DRIVER_TYPE) DriverType = <read memory from 0x13120000004b failed (0 of 4 bytes read)>
20:47 Menchers dunno what's wrong with DriverType but trying to return it is apparently a segfault
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20:50 Menchers running out of ideas
20:51 sfan5 recompile both like Krock said
20:51 Menchers I have
20:51 Menchers many times
20:53 Menchers what could cause returning DriverType from ITexture to segfault
20:53 Menchers it's not NULL
20:53 Menchers I checked
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20:56 sfan5 did you check that Minetest is loading the exact library file you compiled?
20:57 Menchers yes
20:58 sfan5 how?
20:59 Menchers the changes I'm making to irrlicht are showing up when I run minetest in the debugger
20:59 Menchers and I can look at ldd
20:59 Menchers it confirms
20:59 sfan5 okay good enough
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21:03 Krock "it's not NULL". means that it's accessing garbage values. uninitialized pointers. -Wextra or valgrind could help there
21:03 sfan5 there's one thing you might want to know: if you build Irrlicht as debug it's possibly broken
21:03 sfan5 by default
21:03 Menchers what
21:04 Menchers do I need to change something in the flags CMake sets for debug builds?
21:04 sfan5 yes
21:04 sfan5 if you didn't set anything you should have a release build
21:04 sfan5 (so not affected by this)
21:04 Menchers I set debug build
21:05 Menchers changed it to -O0 -g3 -ggdb
21:05 sfan5 try -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=RelWithDebInfo
21:05 Menchers lldb's information is very unuseful otherwise
21:05 sfan5 the crash might just go away magically
21:05 Menchers ok
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21:15 Menchers if it goes away magically I won't figure out what caused it though  >:/
21:16 Menchers anyways it still crashes, but the debugger shows assembly instead of C++ now
21:19 sfan5 huh okay so that wasn't it
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22:17 Swift110-mobile hey akk
22:18 Swift110-mobile hey all i mean
22:18 Swift110-mobile whos playing right now?
22:27 MTDiscord <MisterE> I can...
22:27 MTDiscord <MisterE> what server?
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22:42 erlehmann Menchers have you tried using asan or msan or ubsan?
22:43 Menchers last I checked, those didn't work on openbsd
22:43 Menchers can check again
22:43 Menchers right now I'm rebuilding irrlichtmt with g++ instead of clang++
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22:56 Menchers doesn't fix it
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23:07 luizsab hello. Someone already use the alchemy mod? I can't find documentation
23:07 luizsab Or how potion mod do you can recommend? Is there some better?
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23:15 Menchers trying the build with -fsanitize=undefined
23:17 erlehmann Menchers good luck
23:18 Menchers :D
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23:20 * Menchers should probably also do memory sanitizer… but later
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23:30 Menchers hm, right, openbsd doesn't seem to ship with the sanitizer runtime built
23:30 Menchers unsure why
23:31 Menchers :(
23:35 MTDiscord <Jonathon> there are at least two alchemy mods
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