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IRC log for #minetest, 2021-08-06

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:26 erlehmann is it possible for a liquid to fall?
00:30 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Should be, though I'm not sure how well builtin would handle it
00:45 Swift110-mobile hey all
01:17 FriendlyPerson[m <Swift110-mobile> "hey all" <- Hiya!
01:33 erlehmann is there an issue with contentdb?
01:33 erlehmann prob my network ig
01:33 Xanabella [02:26:48] <erlehmann> is it possible for a liquid to fall? <--- over SelfTimer/ABM check if the Node under the Source was not a Source, remove Source and place it in the under on
01:34 erlehmann Xanabella, i already figured out that dynamic liquid mod does this
01:34 erlehmann but it is … so slow
01:36 Xanabella you not figured out here and ContentDB/Ingame work good/fast for me
01:39 FriendlyPerson[m erlehmann: It's just loaded quick and fine for me. Are you still having issues?
01:41 erlehmann FriendlyPerson[m, try to install the mod dynamic liquid
01:41 erlehmann does it work
01:41 erlehmann for me it does not
01:42 FriendlyPerson[m erlehmann: Which way are you trying? In game or on the website? Or is it both?
01:43 erlehmann both does not work
01:43 erlehmann i mean
01:43 erlehmann ingame
01:43 erlehmann and i can not download the file from the error message
01:44 FriendlyPerson[m Let me try on the site.
01:45 FriendlyPerson[m I got the zip just fine on the site so erlehmann could you please try that instead? It could be that it's too large on the game, the game is not caching it properly, etc.
01:49 erlehmann ok turns out
01:49 erlehmann the /tmp/ filesystem
01:49 erlehmann had too many files
01:50 erlehmann the error message is not entirely wrong
01:50 erlehmann but if there is still space left, it is kinda weird
01:53 FriendlyPerson[m erlehmann: I hate how some unoptimized processes just eat the world there. Makes partitioning home systems a Pain in the Rear. On my next OS load I gonna screw it.
01:54 erlehmann well this is better than the alternativel
01:54 erlehmann i mean
01:54 erlehmann my /tmp was legit trashed
01:54 erlehmann i did it myself
01:54 FriendlyPerson[m It's okay it's no worries. ❤️
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04:28 Swift110-mobile Hey all
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05:45 independent56 Inside the car on a boat almost ready to depart.
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06:00 independent56 Then we have a 10 hour drive to the medeteranian
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06:34 MTDiscord <fatalerror420> there is
06:34 MTDiscord <fatalerror420> a house
06:34 MTDiscord <fatalerror420> in new orle-
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11:54 alguien rnd? no rnd?
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13:29 IvanGorinich guys ping mtroleplay.ga
13:29 IvanGorinich is it works?
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13:39 sfan5 doesn't seem to work
13:39 sfan5 if you have a minetest server running you can also check using MinetestBot's command
13:40 sfan5 like so
13:40 sfan5 !up mtroleplay.ga
13:40 MinetestBot mtroleplay.ga:30000 seems to be down (IPv6)
13:42 MTDiscord <Kimapr> afaik his server uses a test miredo server (teredo)
13:43 MTDiscord <Kimapr> that probably doesn't route to normal internet i think?
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13:51 IvanGorinich it works! it test it with other miredos
13:51 IvanGorinich but i think it not fully works
13:51 IvanGorinich as i want
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17:12 GNUHacker hi, how can I copy a node meta in another node?
17:13 MTDiscord <Warr1024> minetest.get_meta(target):from_table(minetest.get_meta(source):to_table())
17:20 GNUHacker oh thanks
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17:42 GNUHacker we can teleport an entity with entity:set_pos(pos)
17:42 GNUHacker is possible teleport nodes?
17:42 GNUHacker same like node:set_pos()?
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18:07 sofar you can't teleport nodes. You can only create a node identical to another one in a new location, and then destroy the old node
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18:32 Elon_Satoshi Hello! What's the closest thing Minetest has to Computercraft for Minecraft?
18:34 Elon_Satoshi I know there's lua controllers for mesecons. And then there's at least two turtle mods
18:36 specing Elon_Satoshi: client side mods :P
18:36 specing There's basic_robot for programmable robots (I think?)
18:36 specing some servers in the list have it
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19:04 GNUHacker elon_satoshi im working in a Minecraft's OpenComputers port to Minetest
19:10 independent56 I'm seasick because i got used to the 33 hour journey, so now i swing as i stand.
19:10 MTDiscord <Warr1024> You mean landsick now?
19:10 independent56 Yes
19:11 independent56 I had sensory overload as well. The seaside town is swarming with people
19:12 MTDiscord <Warr1024> That's pretty harsh
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19:13 y5nw I remember being on train for over a day (-ish) when I went to see my grandparents. That was a few years ago though, before HSR lines were in operation
19:13 Elon_Satoshi GNUHacker: That's awesome!
19:13 Elon_Satoshi Oh hi warr
19:14 MTDiscord <Warr1024> howdy
19:14 MTDiscord <Warr1024> haven't seen you around for a while, elon
19:15 Elon_Satoshi Yeah, it's been a while since I last played nodecore too
19:15 MTDiscord <Warr1024> whatcha been up to?
19:16 Elon_Satoshi Well, I recently have studied Automate The Boring Stuff with Python a bit
19:16 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Seems like the people who are most drawn to NC are also the same people who are most drawn to working on their own projects, so they don't just play for very long :-)
19:16 Elon_Satoshi Lol
19:17 Elon_Satoshi Maybe nodecore ls like brainfuck for minetest
19:18 * Elon_Satoshi nervously checks the rules for language
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19:19 independent56 Ha, i took the train from Bangor to Crewe, then a second train. Was fun.
19:20 independent56 But luckly i have recovered.
19:20 independent56 (from said sensory overload)
19:21 independent56 We had a 10 hour drive from Bilbao to Barcelona
19:21 independent56 Was horrible.
19:23 Elon_Satoshi Oh cool
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19:25 MTDiscord <Warr1024> NodeCore's optics are actually pretty close to a turing tarpit
19:25 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I don't think it's quite as bad as a literal turing machine, but it is the smallest set of composable elements that's turing complete
19:27 Elon_Satoshi How is it not a turing tarpit?
19:29 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Basically I think to qualify as a proper tarpit you need to specifically go out of your way to some extent to make it such.
19:30 independent56 every programming language is a tarpit for those who do not know it.
19:31 Elon_Satoshi Do you think it'd be possible to host a Minetest server over i2p?
19:31 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Heh, well, NodeCore's optics are only slightly more difficult than oldschool Minecraft redstone (i.e. dust and RST) so it feels a lot less tarry than it could be.  Oldschool MC redstone wasn't even intended to be difficult...
19:32 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I think MT on I2P should work pretty well, if you can tolerate the latency.
19:32 MTDiscord <Warr1024> We've seen MT hosted on overlay networks like yggdrasil, which is a great option for people who have the compute resources to host but don't have enough control over their own networks to be able to open a port.
19:33 Elon_Satoshi Ooh yggdrasil
19:36 GNUHacker nice idea i2p server
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19:36 GNUHacker I want a MT tor server but UDP
19:38 MTDiscord <Warr1024> MT could work over tor as well, though the fact that tor is stream-based rather than packet-based could lead to slight instability in connections leading to a complete connection drop, whereas I2P might be able to recover.
19:39 MTDiscord <Warr1024> yggdrasil though is also actually stream-based (even though they route datagrams over those streams, the underlying connections are TCP) so they're subject to the same risks, but in practice it seems pretty tolerable at least.
19:39 Elon_Satoshi Do you think it'd be possible to make a latency tolerant Minetest server?
19:40 Elon_Satoshi Maybe one where players can't interact real-time, but you can still dig and modify nodes
19:41 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Minetest is already latency-tolerant ... it's just a question of what penalties the game imposes on you.
19:41 MTDiscord <Warr1024> The client already does some stuff like prediction to mitigate latency problems.
19:41 Elon_Satoshi Hmm
19:41 Elon_Satoshi Then do you think a latency tolerant game would be possible?
19:42 MTDiscord <Warr1024> There are games like NC that don't depend on low latency for any vital functions, and while the experience can get a little crappy, it's still theoretically playable at like 1000 or even 2000ms RTT.
19:42 MTDiscord <Warr1024> There are other games like CTF where if your ping time is in the 100's then fuggedaboudit.
19:42 Elon_Satoshi Ah
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19:44 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Individual mods or gameplay mechanics will probably vary in terms of latency tolerance, and how vital they are to the game overall will determine the overall experience.  Adding or removing a specific mod would probably be enough to have a big impact on the overall picture.
19:45 Elon_Satoshi How well does Minetest work over low bandwidth?
19:45 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I'm pretty sure NodeCore vanilla is comfortable under like 100, but can be tolerated with mild discomfort up to like 1000, and is still theoretically playable, even if the experience goes to hell, once you exceed the client prediction threshold.
19:45 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Low bandwidth is actually an area I'm interested in for NC.  I suspect it should be pretty good, for a game of its complexity ... but it's definitely a non-trivial game.
19:46 MTDiscord <Warr1024> For something like unmodded MTG, the whole game is pretty quiescent once you've loaded all the mapblocks around you, so it should work fine as long as you're patient enough.
19:46 Elon_Satoshi My internet is slow again, so I could be a good test subject
19:47 MTDiscord <Warr1024> For NodeCore, I suspect a lot may depend on what you have built, e.g. a build that has a lot of cycling optics may trigger mapblock re-sends multiple times a second, which could be cumbersome if those blocks don't compress well.
19:48 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I say give it a play, at least, and let me know what kind of results you get.  One particular point of interest is the degree of difference between quiet wilderness scenes and being near peoples' factories.
19:48 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I just put on my todo list to dust off my analyzing proxy :-)
19:49 Elon_Satoshi What's the server address again?
19:50 Elon_Satoshi The server list is taking a long time to load
19:51 Elon_Satoshi Oh great, now warr1024 is taking a long time to load too ._.
19:52 * Elon_Satoshi attemps to search for the server address using lynx
19:52 FriendlyPerson[m Elon_Satoshi: You might need to close the game then reenter. I find if I can't get it going in a few secs then booting the game does the trick.
19:53 FriendlyPerson[m Otherwise I could be sitting there for 30 seconds and it's STILL Not done loading.
19:53 Elon_Satoshi Ah
19:54 asdflkj_sh why haven't irrlicht and minetest been ported to the web with emscriptem?
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19:57 MTDiscord <Sublayer plank> well nobody has devoted the time to making that work I guess
19:57 MTDiscord <Sublayer plank> irrlicht has emscriptem support and webgl backend iirc
20:04 MTDiscord <Warr1024> NodeCore Community server is nodecore.mine.nu (port = default 30000)
20:05 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I was taking a long time to load because apparently the Discord/IRC bridge only translates a mention to a ping if it's at the beginning of a line I guess
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20:06 MTDiscord <Warr1024> There's a lot that's not optimal about being here via the Discord bridge, but then, there'd be a lot that's not optimal about being here via my IRC client or the Matrix bridge too 🤷
20:07 FriendlyPerson[m I thought bridging with Matrix is quite well since you retains some of the Discord features? At least over IRC bridging?
20:08 MTDiscord <Jonathon> bridging discord to matrix through irc loses everything irc doesnt support
20:08 asdflkj_sh why not join us in free and federated IRC-land? you can get a free bouncer from ircnow and get messages while you're disconnected, use thelounge if you want auto image previews, is there anything else you'd miss?
20:09 MTDiscord <Warr1024> My main issue is actually getting notifications through 3 different apps when somebody says my name.  That tends to incline me toward using only the platform that gives me the least choice in the matter, rather than the one that gives me the best experience otherwise.
20:09 MTDiscord <Warr1024> tbh this is one reason why I still have a very "Windows-esque" desktop configuration; I just tend to want everything to match across systems, and that tends to mean that the most flexible have to bend to the will of the least.  Very Tragedy of the Commons in a way.
20:11 MTDiscord <Warr1024> So the ironic end-result is that you can /msg me on IRC because I'm actually on Libera, but I'm just not directly in any channels that are also bridged to Discord.
20:12 FriendlyPerson[m When I can't use the best of the best (Matrix) I use them concurrently. Discord themeing is just so poor compared to Matrix so I try to use it where I can. Even though Discord is opened lol.
20:12 asdflkj_sh I like weechat in tmux in dwm, it simply inverts the color of the dwm tag (virtual desktop but better) and tmux window when I'm pinged or pm'd, and I could get weechat-matrix and get pings from all ~20 protocols matrix bridges with (https://matrix.org/bridges/) if I wanted
20:13 asdflkj_sh (but I don't want, IRC is the one true chat)
20:14 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I used to do the irssi-on-tmux thing for a long time, but eventually it got too annoying to get an SMS telling me that somebody had pinged me and I needed to go find a terminal to SSH in to my session to respond.  TheLounge helped somewhat, but it's just so damn inflexible configuration-wise compared to anything else I'm used to...
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20:15 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Like, if I could just say "don't send me a notification in this specific channel for messages from MTDiscord" then I'd be able to camp out in the MT IRC channels too.
20:16 independent56 The autopisa is by far the best road infasructure i have ever seen. The UK motorways are kinda good, but nothing compared tothese. But they docome at a price...
20:16 asdflkj_sh <go find a terminal to SSH> do you not have termux or better on your phone?
20:16 asdflkj_sh independent56: wrong channel? or spambot?
20:17 independent56 asdflkj_sh, Yes, i am spambot beepboop \j
20:18 independent56 (i'm joking)
20:18 * asdflkj_sh reports independent56 to jess /j
20:18 jess nya
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20:20 independent56 I just like to post travel updates to my peers
20:21 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I've used termux and connectbot, the experience was just never good enough for when I needed to catch up on a convo and quickly respond.
20:21 MTDiscord <Warr1024> For SSH now, I actually don't use either, I just have a WeTTY instance behind HTTPS.
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20:39 Elon_Satoshi Is it accurate to call IRC federated?
20:40 Elon_Satoshi Federation is when servers communicate with each other, right? But I can't log into Libera and send a message to someone on Rizon
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20:43 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Federation tends to assume a loose association, i.e. each system "owns" some of the assets of the overall network and they share those.  I think IRC networks tend to be more tight organizations than that, since channels themselves are split between servers, so the servers need to strongly agree on governance.
20:44 MTDiscord <Warr1024> XMPP or Matrix are better examples of federated services, since channels actually belong to each node and only limited agreement is actually necessary.  I think "federated" tends to refer to systems that are self-governing in that way, rather than requiring external governance outside of the tech itself.
20:45 MTDiscord <Warr1024> You can just run your own Matrix or XMPP server, but you can't just run your own Libera IRC server, you have to comply with certain policy requirements and gain a lot of trust before you can be added to the network.
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20:55 asdflkj_sh irc is less federated than matrix in theory, but with network bridges on irc and matrix.org dominance on matrix, it's comparable in practice
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20:57 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Yeah, that's true, Matrix is theoretically more decentralized but in practice it's dominated by a few major players: matrix.org for infrastructure, Element for UI...
21:00 FriendlyPerson[m IF you start from Matrix you can run your own instrafacture up to the UI correct?
21:00 FriendlyPerson[m Then obviously the UI is up the clients right?
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21:02 MTDiscord <Warr1024> You can run your own Matrix network, or your own IRC network, or your own XMPP network.  In the case of Matrix or XMPP it would be easier to join it with an existing network than it would probably be to get IRC servers merged to an existing network.
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21:39 asdflkj_sh IIUC existing matrix networks would join with yours by default (as soon as a user joined a room on one network from the other), whereas IRC servers these days only federate with whitelisted servers, usually run by the same org (though originally virtually all servers were on one global network, until efnet formed as Eris-Free, blacklisting a server named eris)
21:39 asdflkj_sh (IDK about XMPP)
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21:57 erlehmann xmpp has a federation and lots of non-federated networks, like nintendo switch, eve online, fortnite, EA origins, league of legends … https://xmpp.org/uses/gaming.html
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22:08 asdflkj_sh I wonder how many people use irc through Twitch and games like minetest
22:30 erlehmann asdflkj_sh, twitch uses irc?
22:30 erlehmann i think everyone who does not want to build their own thing pretty much uses xmpp
22:33 FriendlyPerson[m erlehmann: What is it really? Like a IRC "core" software of some sort so you can do what you want an slap a name on it?
22:37 specing It's a standardised protocol with standardised extensions and reference implementations available
22:40 erlehmann yeah think like http but for chat
22:40 erlehmann FriendlyPerson[m a lot of newer stuff like matrix really only has one well-tested implementation
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22:41 specing *XML
22:41 erlehmann ?
22:41 specing not html
22:41 specing err, not http
22:41 specing whatever
22:41 erlehmann FriendlyPerson[m just read here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP
22:42 specing yes, matrix is held hostage to that pile of javascript called Element
22:42 specing But still it's the best thing we have to combat discord
22:42 erlehmann specing the matrix specification contains grammars not matching the examples and examples not matching the prose.
22:43 erlehmann and when people point out that synapse works differently than the spec, the answer is more often than not “oh, the spec is actually wrong”
22:44 erlehmann it reminds me of microsofts office open xml, the “open standard” that, to comply with, means you just do what excel does or something
22:45 specing erlehmann: If I can reap the benefits without being exposed to its downsides, then yay for me
22:46 erlehmann specing the only thing that worked worse for me than matrix was trying to sign up to discord.
22:46 erlehmann like, the actual signup website lagged my computer so hard i did not do it
22:46 erlehmann that's an *impressive* achievement, even for a contemporary website
22:47 FriendlyPerson[m <erlehmann> "FriendlyPerson just read here..." <- Thanks you very much and I still appreciated you trying specing too. After all it's your thoughts that counts. ❤️
22:50 specing erlehmann: heh
22:50 specing erlehmann: my browser freezes for 10s each time I start typing in Element
22:50 specing (I use a different, native client now)
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