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IRC log for #minetest, 2021-07-14

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:06 robyndrake and I do have load_mod_screwdriver = true before load_mod_pipeworks = true in world.mt
00:08 robyndrake joy.
00:10 specing maybe version mismatch?
00:10 specing maybe screwdriver mod that you have does not create a global object called screwdriver?
00:11 robyndrake ok, I'll check that out, thank you for the tip
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00:16 robyndrake all is working now
00:28 specing robyndrake: so, what was the issue?
00:28 robyndrake the version
00:28 robyndrake used screwdriver2 and all is well now
00:29 specing k
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01:36 ghoti So.. I've grabbed a copy of my mt directory with mods, but I would like to run it on a fresh map.sqlite and players.sqlite for testing new mods. How do I initialize fresh sqlite databases? I want a fresg map, auth and players. Should I just truncate copies of the existing sqlite files?
01:38 ghoti It would be great if the server would just generate missing files once it needs them, but I have found no documentation that suggests it does that.
01:59 Hawk777 Can’t you just delete the files altogether?
02:00 Hawk777 I’m not certain whether it works or not, but I wouldn’t be surprised, and it seems easy to test.
02:07 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Rename them in case you change your mind later :-)
02:11 Andrew Hi. Two questions: 1) Is there an easy way to display Chinese on MT? I still couldn't get the fonts set-up 2) Is there a quest system that reads quest files from stuff like YML or JSON, that works like epic blocks, but have no physical representation of them?
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03:29 ghoti Hawk777: that worked. I actually didn't expect it to. Thanks very much. :)
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07:38 Andrew How do I make EPIC blocks *NOT* show waypoints to players?
07:39 Andrew It's bad that people taking the quest can easily see where they should go next
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13:19 Andrew Is there a way to automatically set a user mode after connect with the IRC mod?
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14:10 hlqkj Hi all! I have a question: reading lua_api.txt I get that paramtype is required to be 'light' when the nodebox drawtype is used. Why it is so?
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14:30 calcul0n_ hlqkj, from what i see it's not required, it's just the value used in the example
14:31 hlqkj hey, thank you! but then why this line: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L999 ?
14:35 calcul0n_ ho it's paramtype, i was thinking about paramtype2
14:36 calcul0n_ i don't really understand this one in fact
14:39 hlqkj trying to figure out how to stop stairs nodes (but not only those) being "transparent" to sunlight
14:39 sfan5 sunlight_propagates = false?
14:40 hlqkj thats the theory... but if i build an hollow cube of nodes that do have paramtype set to light, you can't seem to get darkness insite them
14:40 hlqkj *inside of it... darn language barrier
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14:50 hlqkj it's weird to have blocks supposed to be solid (eg stone slopes/stairs) letting light through them
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14:50 jonadab I find it _useful_ that you can use blocks that appear solid, to hide light sources in certain kinds of builds.
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14:53 MTDiscord <wwar> It is useful, question is, is it a bug or a feature? 🤔
14:54 hlqkj eh..
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14:55 hlqkj last occurrence of this we had, was with the castle_masonry:stonewall block. that's not even a stair (hence, in that particular case i just fixed the node def and set paramtype to none)
14:56 hlqkj but with slopes/stairs i dunno if i can safely change the paramtype or that will break something, since that line in lua_api.txt i linked earlier
14:56 entuland they're probably implemented like that cause of the non-full block, imagine a wall with stairs placed just so that you get a full 1/4 of the surface covered with "holes" - light should be 1/4 attenuated
14:57 hlqkj ah k, that makes sense
14:57 entuland I doubt it's easy or feasible to do such computation depending on the block geometry, it's just easier to let light through
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15:07 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Nodes can only either allow light to pass in and through them, or not pass into them at all.  There's no way to allow a node to have light pass into it (e.g. to light up the space within the stair) but not back out (e.g. passing all the way through).
15:08 MTDiscord <Warr1024> There's also no protocol for specifying the paths that light can or cannot take through a node.
15:09 MTDiscord <Warr1024> My mod https://content.minetest.net/packages/Warr1024/nc_stairs/ actually has a solution for this problem, but you're not gonna like it :-D
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15:09 hlqkj lets see
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15:16 MinetestBot [git] Df458 -> minetest/minetest: Fix documented default colors for set_sky 68143ed https://git.io/JCVho (2021-07-14T15:14:45Z)
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16:10 independent56 Do any of you want to read my rant on bromcom, the horrible system used by my school?
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16:12 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Eh, I'm always down for a canned rant I guess :-/
16:13 independent56 http://56i.duckdns.org/wordpress/2021/07/14/fuck-bromcom/
16:15 MTDiscord <Warr1024> "Bromcom" sounds like romcom for bros as implemented by broadcom.
16:15 independent56 website is at bromcom.com, if you're intrested.
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16:19 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Institutional shit always sucks.  They have basically a hostage audience, so they have no incentive to improve.  The people who make the decision about what to use are not the people who have to suffer the full consequences of that choice, so they only base their decision on what they care about, usually price, and then they fail to account for the costs they incur downstream from people having to work around bad systems.
16:20 MTDiscord <Warr1024> You can hate on this one piece of software all you want, but you should be confident that it's the best choice possible because the only way they'd change it is if they found something worse.  It's not the product that sucks, it's the incentive structure.
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16:21 independent56 Ah, makes sense... FOSS is always better but cheaper... If only i could found a viable solution (i wish i had the right search terms). Of course, "Anybody can edit it!" has the same consequences as wikipedia got.
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16:23 MTDiscord <Warr1024> People everywhere love a good "if people have the freedom to make their own choices they might make bad ones" moral panic.  Even FOSS isn't immune by a longshot.
16:25 independent56 Yeah, i remember what happened with tha tuniversity and the linux kernel. Even the vetting process for FOSS may not be sufficent in some cases
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17:29 MTDiscord <Jordach> No FOSS is terrible for long term cost effectiveness
17:29 independent56 why? please explain more
17:30 MTDiscord <Jordach> Imagine using it until you find showstopping bugs which immediately start affecting your income
17:30 MTDiscord <Jordach> At which point you’ve already filed the relevant issues and the maintainer response is fuck off
17:30 MTDiscord <Jordach> Not supported
17:31 independent56 hmm
17:31 independent56 Make a fork >:-)
17:31 MTDiscord <Jordach> Not only that you need an experienced programmer in the language of the software and also training them for familiarity
17:32 MTDiscord <Jordach> At which point the fork is maintained but is no longer able to merge upstream because of merge conflicts
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17:33 independent56 hmm
17:33 independent56 i guess i will be the only person who sues it on my server
17:33 MTDiscord <Jordach> So it now means you no longer receive potential security fixes from upstream, and now you have to pay a full team of programmers which equals the original loss
17:36 MTDiscord <Warr1024> FOSS is terrible for long-term cost-effectiveness, but it's the last S, not the preceding FOS, that's the major cause of that.
17:36 MTDiscord <Jordach> Yes
17:36 MTDiscord <Jordach> Software support that you host yourself is expensive
17:37 MTDiscord <Jordach> Literally in both time and cost
17:37 MTDiscord <Warr1024> All software sucks, FOSS just has its own particular way of doing so.
17:38 independent56 hah
17:39 Hawk777 Heh. Closed source software is exactly the same (I run into a problem, why would $BIG_CORPORATION even care about me, I’m just a little guy who doesn’t matter) except now I can’t solve my problem at all.
17:39 Hawk777 Some is no doubt better, but not all.
17:40 MTDiscord <Jordach> No the problem is a lack of guaranteed contracted support clause
17:41 Hawk777 And how many pieces of software have you bought, as an individual, an ordinary person (not a company), that have one of those?
17:43 independent56 I only use FOSS on my webbook (wordpress, dokuwiki, xampp, stikked, bodhi linux...)
17:43 independent56 And my server runs fine.
17:46 MTDiscord <Jordach> Enough to break 4 digits and closer to 5 digits in £
17:48 GNUHacker https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html
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20:14 MinetestBot Wuzzy: Jul-10 08:55 UTC <Krock> https://krock-works.uk.to/u/patches/0001-Fix-some-implicit-hard-and-soft-dependencies.patch
20:14 MinetestBot Wuzzy: Jul-10 16:34 UTC <Krock> also "depends = mcl_autogroup" in _mcl_autogroup/mod.conf
20:15 Wuzzy Krock: I no longer maintain MineClone 2 since months now, lol.
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22:49 Biggvs_Richardvs Is this the right Forum for mod debugging/issues?
22:49 Biggvs_Richardvs The Rangedweapons mod is crashing my server
22:50 Biggvs_Richardvs But it's a super cool mod - just want to fix it
22:50 Biggvs_Richardvs mods/rangedweapons/ammo.lua:112: bad argument #2 to 'random' (interval is empty)
22:50 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2 -- Burned wood
23:07 Biggvs_Richardvs Looks like the mod has been updated as recently as March of this year
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23:57 Kelp I'm getting really bad FPS in minetest and supertuxkart. It seems to be capped at 50 fps even tho I changed the cap to 75
23:58 Kelp And in minecraft on the highest settings I got like 300 fps
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23:58 Kelp And some things like using the bow drop my fps to 32

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