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IRC log for #minetest, 2021-05-05

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:16 MTDiscord <Jonathon> MisterE, do note that doesnt show up as well on irc as it does here. https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2021-05-04#i_5817585
00:20 Emerald2 Wow that shows up weird on IRC.
00:20 MTDiscord <Jonathon> depends on your irc client
00:21 Emerald2 The text is kinda between the lines of where it normally is.
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02:14 MTDiscord <MisterE, Modder of Sorts> yes, well, I think IRC users are used to things showing up kinda wierd 😛    I kinda expect it when I use IRC But yeah, IG I should have posted the text-only version
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03:03 Swift110-mobile Oh
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10:30 deatline Hey all
10:31 deatline i need help with cocoa
10:34 Emerald2 What's the problem?
10:36 deatline the cocoa its only green
10:36 deatline i have put on the jungletree
10:37 Emerald2 Remind me which mod that's in?
10:37 deatline what need cocoa
10:38 Emerald2 If I remember right, farming redo.
10:39 Emerald2 I'm having a quick look at the code to see if it needs light or whatever.
10:42 deatline ok
10:43 Emerald2 Is it the default game jungletree you placed it on? I used to just place some trunks by my farm and plant cocoa on it and it was fine.
10:45 MTDiscord <Danil_2461> hello people
10:46 deatline yes, too, but no change, only green
10:46 Emerald2 It looks to me like it just needs the jungle tree logs to grow. Hopefully somebody else can be more helpful.
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10:47 deatline ok, thank you, i will wait
10:51 hisforeverkid hi I'd like to know where is the Mod folder in Ubuntu, my /home/.minetest dose not have a Mod folder
10:54 calcul0n you can create it there or it might be in /usr/share/games/minetest
10:54 calcul0n (if you installed it from a package)
10:55 hisforeverkid ok thanks calcu10n
10:55 MTDiscord <Danil_2461> install a mod, then itll create one
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20:50 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Add basic client-server test to CI ba40b39 https://git.io/J36v2 (2021-05-05T20:49:44Z)
20:50 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Use Irrlicht functions to query npot texture support 08f1a7f https://git.io/J36vV (2021-05-05T20:49:44Z)
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21:04 MTDiscord <Danil_2461> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/839608484516331530/Screenshot_20210506-000348.png
21:04 MTDiscord <Danil_2461> when I try to launch any game, it gives this and freezes
21:06 MTDiscord <Danil_2461>   -------------   Separator -------------  2021-05-06 00:05:15: ERROR[Main]: Main menu error: Runtime error from mod '' in callback handleMainMenuButtons(): /storage/emulated/0/Minetest/builtin/mainmenu/tab_local.lua:232: attempt to index local 'game' (a nil value) 2021-05-06 00:05:15: ERROR[Main]: stack traceback: 2021-05-06 00:05:15: ERROR[Main]:     /storage/emulated/0/Minetest/builtin/mainmenu/tab_local.lua:232: in function
21:06 MTDiscord 'handle_buttons' 2021-05-06 00:05:15: ERROR[Main]:     /storage/emulated/0/Minetest/builtin/fstk/ui.lua:142: in function 'handle_buttons' 2021-05-06 00:05:15: ERROR[Main]:     /storage/emulated/0/Minetest/builtin/fstk/ui.lua:186: in function </storage/emulated/0/Minetest/builtin/fstk/ui.lua:172>
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21:27 MTDiscord <Warr1024> make sure your engine build and builtin versions match
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22:43 MTDiscord <Danil_2461> wh?
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23:33 erlehmann <Aris> is there a way to make the night lighter so that it's slightly easier to see?
23:34 erlehmann Aris you can edit src/nodedef.cpp and replace "light_source = 0" with "light_source = 7"
23:34 erlehmann Aris then rebuild – that will give you a client that has halfbright blocks
23:35 erlehmann i think there is no way to detect it server side so you don't have to worry about ppl banning you for cheating bc you have eyesight issues
23:35 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Or you could just hack up node defs in lua so you don't have to recompile the engine.
23:35 erlehmann yes, you can install dragonfire client or waspsaliva if you want to
23:36 erlehmann but they do a lot of other stuff
23:36 erlehmann that will get you banned
23:36 MTDiscord <Warr1024> If you are trying to correct for eyesight issues, gamma can be raised all the way to 3, which basically makes everything fullbright if it's not pure black anyway.
23:37 erlehmann uh, i did not think of that, it sounds gnarly
23:37 erlehmann funniest thing i found in waspsalive is the idle miner
23:37 erlehmann like you walk and it just mines everything it can reach directly below you
23:37 erlehmann it basically means you *have* to walk
23:37 erlehmann funny minigame
23:37 erlehmann i bet i am misusing that feature
23:37 erlehmann i mean i don't regularly use waspsaliva
23:38 erlehmann Warr1024 would gamma correction affect the interface?
23:38 erlehmann i have problems with low contrast
23:38 erlehmann like grey on gray
23:38 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I don't recall it doing so
23:39 erlehmann other people can for example see the outlines of a room where the walls are lined with black concrete.
23:39 MTDiscord <Warr1024> You should also invest in a texture pack, could help.
23:39 erlehmann i can not, easily
23:39 erlehmann unless i make a screenshot and up the contrast
23:39 erlehmann or sometimes the screenshot gamma is slightly off on another machine
23:39 erlehmann then i can see it
23:40 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Do you just have trouble with low brightness stuff, or is it like an inability to distinguish nearby shades or something?
23:40 erlehmann i think the latter
23:40 erlehmann i need higher contrast than other people my age
23:41 erlehmann also i *can* see some stuff that other people have no problem with, but it is very straining
23:41 erlehmann it is only light
23:41 erlehmann but i notice it whenever some hipster makes a website with gray on grey text
23:41 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Interesting.  I'll have to keep that in mind when I evaluate my stuff for accessibility.  I already watch out for color blindness and blurry vision accessibility...
23:41 erlehmann or in the case of looking at a corner of black concrete in minetest
23:42 erlehmann like i can't really see where the corner is
23:42 erlehmann i mean ofc that depends on the lighting
23:42 erlehmann which brings us to why i had a halfbright suggestion
23:42 MTDiscord <Warr1024> How does that even work?  Is there a name for the condition that I could look up?
23:42 erlehmann Warr1024 WCAG 2.0 has a formula for contrast, do you know that?
23:43 erlehmann i think everyone gets it when they get older actually
23:43 erlehmann i have so far only seen people under 40 make designs that are hard to read honestly
23:43 MTDiscord <Warr1024> MT's "gamma" formulas, be warned, have never really been right...
23:43 erlehmann but i am, actually, under 40
23:43 erlehmann Warr1024 i look up the WCAG stuff, pls wait
23:44 erlehmann Warr1024 https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast-contrast.html
23:44 MTDiscord <Warr1024> We need an MTCAG
23:45 erlehmann Warr1024 what kind of accessability things do you do? for websites, there is a WCAG 2.0 contrast checker
23:45 erlehmann it can figure out if your website has text that does not conform to the 4,5:1 or 3:1 contrast things
23:45 erlehmann and mark it with a red outline
23:45 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Contrast ratios tend to be disolay-dependent, and even moreso for MT, where we have to work with things like android phones where people want the brightness way low to preserve battery...
23:46 erlehmann https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast7.html
23:46 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Tbh mostly what I've done is (1) keep the HUD uncluttered so it can be scaled larger, and (2) test the game with all color desaturated (pure grayscale) to make sure it's usable for colorblind.
23:47 erlehmann well the thing is because they are so display dependent you have to err on the side of caution
23:47 erlehmann some peole do not even know they are colorblind
23:47 erlehmann years ago i showed a guy an ishihara plate
23:47 erlehmann and well
23:47 erlehmann i think he was over 30
23:47 erlehmann and only on that day noticed that he may have a color vision issue apparently
23:48 erlehmann like you know the things where you see different numbers
23:48 MTDiscord <Warr1024> That's kinda surprising, but then, I have a hard time remembering what it was like not expressing colors as hex values, so...
23:48 erlehmann yeah i also was like "how can you get through life for so long"
23:48 erlehmann but i mean 5% of men and 0,5% of women have some color vision issues i read
23:48 erlehmann so it must be pretty common
23:49 erlehmann like mostly minor probably
23:49 erlehmann > test the game with all color desaturated (pure grayscale) to make sure it's usable for colorblind
23:49 erlehmann that sounds nice, but what kind of desaturation function do you use?
23:49 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Pure grayscale is the overkill approach, should cover every kind of color blindness.  I just use imagemagick I think.
23:50 erlehmann i mean you have to approximate the kind of desaturation that the different kinds of colorblindness give, not just set everything to gray as far as i get it
23:50 erlehmann when i tried this to finde the minimal ANSI palette that is reasonably colorblind safe i came up with yellow, cyan, purple, white, black
23:50 erlehmann like terminal 16 colors ANSI i mean
23:51 erlehmann i now tend to use cyan instead of green and yellow instead of red
23:51 MTDiscord <Warr1024> It doesn't matter much which function because you also can't rely on contextual cues.  Someone could be buried in a pit of nothing but sand or nothing but gravel, and there needs to be some way to distinguish them just from the shapes or patterns or contrast.
23:51 erlehmann in terminal output
23:51 erlehmann right
23:51 erlehmann i have not looked at the ores
23:51 erlehmann i guess they can be distinguished by shape then?
23:51 erlehmann texture-wise
23:51 erlehmann i mean they have different colors
23:51 MTDiscord <Warr1024> In MTG I dunno, maybe some?
23:52 erlehmann well if not, there exists an issue
23:52 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Probably.
23:52 erlehmann i think minecraft changed something about their textures at some point to account for that
23:52 erlehmann i will look it up
23:52 MTDiscord <Warr1024> But then, content creators may not necessarily want to bake all accessibility features right into a package, and with texturepacks there is an alternative so they don't have to
23:53 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Switching texture packs also has the advantage that they could specialize for specific accessibility needs
23:57 erlehmann Warr1024 the most widespread accessibility needs should be addressed by default
23:57 erlehmann for example some ppl require low contrast due to cognitive disabilities
23:57 erlehmann but that is much rarer than having difficulties with low contrast
23:57 erlehmann so i would do a texture pack for the former
23:58 erlehmann but insist the latter is taken into account for default textures
23:58 erlehmann Warr1024 i think a good example is the dye color textures in mineclone2, they are all differently shaped

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