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IRC log for #minetest, 2021-01-25

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04:25 * cheapie mumbles something about "porting dxdiag to minetest" https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20210124_202041.png
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04:26 cheapie (making a 2D "GPU" for digistuff, needed a test pattern to render in 64x64, this seemed like a good option and is indeed being rendered with "hardware" acceleration)
04:30 cheapie It gets kinda confusing sometimes keeping track of the various layers of software/hardware/etc. at play here - the image is being rendered by a separate node ("hardware") outside of the Luacontroller, so it's hardware acceleration as far as the LuaC is concerned, but at the same time, said other node is really a piece of software since MT is itself software and not a physical world, so it's not hardware acceleration in *that* sense...
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05:47 Rumored :[
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11:12 Guest0 What is currently the best protection mod for a dedicated server?  I tried protection_redux, but that one doesn't seem to work.  PS: server is a 5.3.0 server.
11:13 Guest0 I would like something I can protect a large area as admin, and have players use a block/placeable to protect smaller areas on their own.
11:13 Rumored remake that game takes not one thing; so i hesitate to disturb peoples D:
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11:23 MTDiscord <F​lamore> https://github.com/minetest-mods/areas
11:24 Guest0 Is that the one with the p-block I've seen on some other public servers?
11:27 rubenwardy no, that's protector
11:27 Guest0 Also is it more current to get mods from github rather than the content db?  Thank you for your support.
11:27 rubenwardy depends on the mod
11:27 Guest0 ok
11:29 Guest0 is it possible to use areas and protector or might they conflict with each other?
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11:33 Guest0 A lot of the descriptions for the mods seem too brief to be very helpful and informative.
11:59 rubenwardy yes, it's usually possible to mix protection mods
12:00 rubenwardy if they're inclusive rather than exclusive
12:00 rubenwardy If a protection mod protects everything by default, then it's hard to mix with other mods
12:00 rubenwardy mixing protection mods may result in some areas not being editable if they do conflict badly
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12:17 Guest0 Is anyone here actively using protect & areas together successfully without issues or conflicts on their servers?
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12:34 Guest0 Well I looked through the server list @ https://servers.minetest.net/ because I remembered hovering over the name shows mods on some, and I do see areas and protector both being used on some servers, so that makes me feel a bit safer trying them both.
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12:51 BuckarooBanzai Guest0: both work when used together, but: it is possible to use an area protection over an already (with protection-blocks) protected area
13:08 Guest0 Buckaroo: do you mean that as a good thing or a bad effect?
13:08 Guest0 the statement after the "but"
13:09 nephele area protection is basically a callback that the mods answer to
13:09 nephele if both have a different set of "allowed" users you might have a situation where one mod rejects the placement, but the other allows it, so it is rejected
13:10 nephele if you have two differen sets of users in two mods for the same area you would then not be able to place anything since one or the other would reject the placement then
13:11 Guest0 Ok, so what I think you are saying is don't use both on the same area? Because one will not prevent the other being used?
13:11 nephele yeah, kinda
13:12 Guest0 I'm only planning on giving area to myself or other admins if I have those, and regular players will only use protector blocks. Does that sound logical? (And admins or me will know to not use both.)
13:13 nephele if the same user uses both that isn't a problem, but if one user could use an area, and the other an area protection block it could be that the smaller area is encased in the bigger one and both cant edit, then
13:13 Guest0 If both get used in the same area it can mess up the entire map?
13:13 nephele not really, unless the mods are broken
13:13 Guest0 Let me read what you wrote one more time to make sure I comprehend it.
13:13 nephele it would only be a problem for the area both mods try to protect at the same time
13:15 Guest0 If that circumstance happens that you said 3 posts ago occurs, can the areas of protection be removed and re-created to solve the issue?
13:15 Rumored if that 2nd line by mistake i had diamonds in carbone, it's limited that way after :-<
13:16 nephele yeah, most likely, i would assume that most protection mods will simply say "you are admin so its okay" in any case
13:16 MTDiscord <F​lamore> privilege protection_bypass
13:16 nephele but if users manage to do that (unless they manage to do that with a race condition) they can remove the area in the reverse order they were created
13:17 Guest0 ok. Because I am trying to give myself the owner of the server a larger protected area, but wanted other players who join to be able to protect smaller areas.  Is this the best recommended way to go about it, or is there other options or suggestions?  There isn't a single mod that does both already is there? That would be most convenient.
13:17 nephele I would think a mod that does both would be ideal, but i have no idea tbh, never tried to install such mods :)
13:19 Guest0 Maybe future going someone will incorporate both into a single mod.  Or maybe if I learn Lua and become competent I can have a try at doing so. Too bad I can't use Python, since I'm good with Python.
13:20 Guest0 It's not currently possible to program mods with Python though?
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13:23 Guest0 I did find this topic on forum: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=17268
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13:23 MTDiscord <F​lamore> python would be harder to implement than lua so it's a no go.
13:24 MTDiscord <F​lamore> Well, unless you had some sort of foreign function interface
13:24 rubenwardy you can use https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13316 for Python scripting
13:24 rubenwardy it's not full modding though
13:25 MTDiscord <F​lamore> it's mainly voxel manipulation
13:25 rubenwardy there's no real need to use Python. It's slower and a similar paradigm
13:25 Rumored python. it's slower than programming android :/
13:25 daiNoZord i googled python to lua converter and it seems someones had a crack at it - no idea if it works tho.......
13:25 rubenwardy the only real reason is that Python is common in education, which is why that mod exists
13:26 MTDiscord <F​lamore> there's no converter, it's only transpilers.
13:26 rubenwardy JavaScript could be a better language, it has more support and there's better language features and TypeScript
13:26 MTDiscord <F​lamore> yeah, but size wise?
13:26 MTDiscord <F​lamore> and compatibility must stayt
13:26 rubenwardy Nothing will be as small as Lua
13:27 rubenwardy sure, but any suggested alternative language will break compatibility
13:27 MTDiscord <F​lamore> we could start with moonscript, it  compiles to lua in the end.
13:27 Guest0 I'm decent with javascript too, I utterly hate java though.
13:28 rubenwardy Kotlin makes Android dev much nicer
13:28 Guest0 Yes, I read Google officially switched Android official language to Kotlin also from Java.
13:28 nephele just until they ditch it for dart and ditch linux for fuchsia :)
13:28 Guest0 I programmed a couple apps for Android in Java before Kotlin was there, and it was a bit of a nightmare.
13:29 MTDiscord <F​lamore> https://haxe.org/ take a look at this, maybe mt mods in haxe? it compiles to not only lua.
13:29 rubenwardy I've never looked at Dart but I'm going to automatically hate on it because it's not Kotlin
13:29 Guest0 nepehele, things are always changing with computers, have to keep on your toes to not get stagnant.
13:30 nephele dart is used for flutter
13:30 Guest0 I've been using computers since before the internet existed.
13:30 Guest0 I guess that dates me a bit.
13:30 nephele but flutter is mostly cross platform, and native on fuchsia anyhow
13:31 nephele so it's not really "to jvm" code
13:31 nephele not that android uses a jvm type model anymore...
13:33 Guest0 Ruebn on that forum post you say "Also, Python isn't a very good scripting language due to its architecture."  What do you mean by that?  I use Python for scripting on almost a daily basis.
13:33 Guest0 Ruben*
13:34 rubenwardy I added a link afterwards to explain that
13:34 Rumored i added this: https:github.comceleron55minetestcommit25cf3757b29a0397e201a4719788ead3dc76ec94 :|
13:34 rubenwardy I use Python too, ContentDB is written using Python
13:34 Guest0 Hmm,ok let go follow the link then..
13:37 rubenwardy TL;DR: embedding python can break a lot of the standard library and other things you might expect
13:38 nephele learning lua is not /that/ hard i think
13:38 Rumored while it might or might have uses cpu load bouncing between 24 and 12 :S
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13:51 Guest0 I got lost in reading that forum post, but it seems it starts to get into a fight of python vs lua for those posters.  Some are partial to one language and some are partial to the other.
13:52 nephele not that it matters
13:52 nephele mt has lua, so if you want to mod it its probably a good idea to learn atleast some :P
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15:45 Guest0 Have both of those mods installed and so far, so good (protect and areas)
15:46 Guest0 Just protected a large area with my main character I gave admin privs to. and tested out p-blocks before hand.
15:46 Guest0 I think the only thing I have left to add now is some player skins. Because currently everyone is the same looking man, and there are no females.  Any suggestion on which mod for that?
15:50 Guest0 Oh and I have one other question: When a mod says "depends on default" is that default included already with minetest-server, or is that a mod I have to add?
15:55 nephele default is a mod included in minetest game
15:55 nephele it's confusingly named, unfortunately :)
16:01 Guest0 Ok, I thought that might be the case, but wanted to be sure. thanks.
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16:13 nephele (note that minetest game isn't installed per default, but is an option... that is somewhat confusing too)
16:14 rubenwardy Minetest Game is still installed per default
16:14 Rumored game pretty hard at that ridiculous repeat after me kek
16:14 nephele rubenwardy: not on FreeBSD...
16:14 MTDiscord <J​onathon> and some other distros
16:14 nephele and not if you just clone minetest
16:14 rubenwardy well, that's up to the distro maintainer
16:14 nephele so not sure where you mean?
16:14 rubenwardy we ship with Minetest Game by default
16:15 nephele if you use a server it's unlikely that you would use the snap version or so though
16:15 rubenwardy I think the Ubuntu official PPA ships with MTG
16:16 rubenwardy Ubuntu also has minetest in its distros, but that's not maintained by us
16:17 Guest0 minetest came by default in both Manjaro and Debian
16:18 nephele that's an interesting choice
16:18 Guest0 I don't like Ubuntu :P
16:18 rubenwardy the great thing about Linux is you can choose your distro and how your PC is setup
16:19 rubenwardy I use Manjaro XFCE and everything is set up how I like
16:19 Guest0 I love Linux :D
16:20 Guest0 I use Manjaro for my fun and play computer and my work computer, and I use Debian for my servers.
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16:20 rubenwardy same, but also Ubuntu for servers
16:20 rubenwardy I have one server on ubuntu and two on debian
16:21 Guest0 Debian seems out of date sometimes, but she's always stable and reliable.
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16:23 Guest0 Ruben do you have a suggestion for a player skins mod? to get more looks and female skins?
16:24 Guest0 I'm running photo realism texture, and it seems to have only one character look, unless im not finding the place to change it.
16:24 Rumored photo realism texture, and deliver appropriate licensing :--<
16:29 rubenwardy !mod [skins
16:29 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Skinsdb [skinsdb] by bell07 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=17899 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/skinsdb
16:29 rubenwardy !mod [skins]
16:29 MinetestBot rubenwardy: In-game skin switching [skins] by Zeg9 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=4147 - https://github.com/Zeg9/minetest-skins
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16:29 Rumored 8<
16:29 rubenwardy I want simple skins
16:29 rubenwardy !mod simple skins
16:29 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Simple Skins [simple_skins] by TenPlus1 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9100 - https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/simple_skins
16:30 rubenwardy ofc
16:30 nephele rubenwardy: it's also linux biggest disadvantage
16:30 rubenwardy Yeah, it makes supporting Linux hard
16:30 rubenwardy but there's thing like Steam runtime and Snap/Flatpak/Appimage to make it easier
16:30 rubenwardy plus, really you only need to support Ubuntu and Linux people will add support for others
16:30 nephele Guest0: I must say, debian has been quite unstable for me, especially with their shoddy integration of systemd
16:31 Guest0 thank for those suggestions, I'll look them over.
16:33 MTDiscord <w​war> TenPlus1 updated simple_skins and now it support unified inventory 🎊
16:33 rubenwardy gross
16:34 rubenwardy I'm kidding
16:35 Guest0 Thanks MTD
16:35 Rumored oh thanks man pm@forum to claim religious discrimination, its all D:
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16:44 rubenwardy Rumored: what are you talking about?
16:44 Rumored rubenwardy: crafts of mob war here is to enforce trademarks on candyswipe, but also usrlocalshareminetest or we used redis backend for map generation :-<
16:45 rubenwardy that literally makes no sense
16:45 Krock rubenwardy: time to expand your noob gen script
16:46 rubenwardy you said it, not me
16:46 rubenwardy they responded very quickly and it was basically gibberish, makes me think they're a bot
16:46 Krock Rumored: hi
16:46 Rumored Krock: a question do it there was 50 folders x at all assume it's because that's blender's default dube, sized down by some factors :'<
16:47 Krock yeah it's a bot
16:47 rubenwardy yep
16:47 Krock ---> https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/4cb29fedb7952e5a4cdf
16:47 rubenwardy god that was ages ago
16:48 Krock now you're capable of replacing it with an AI
16:48 rubenwardy June 2014
16:48 Krock which produces even worse glibberish stuff
16:48 Krock like yesterday man
16:48 nephele a neuRalnetbutdoesituseRuomeredsubstrings
16:48 rubenwardy I think the main differences between me then and now are  1) more unit tests  2) more depression
16:49 Krock both can be solved by writing less code
16:49 rubenwardy that is true
16:54 MTDiscord <w​war> Less is a new programing language? :trollface:
16:55 daiNoZord ive got an idea about how maybe I can make a finish line for a race track - tho atm I dont know if I can do more than one lap - Has it already been done?
17:00 rubenwardy I'd define the track as waypoints, and then track the progress of the player through those waypoints
17:00 rubenwardy Waypoint meaning that original meaning rather than a HUD waypoint
17:00 rubenwardy So you'd define the track as a list of positions, then store the last waypoint position for each racecar
17:01 rubenwardy This makes it easier to be sure that cars can't just go backwards or skip bits
17:01 daiNoZord Ah good point, ok thanks :)
17:08 daiNoZord I think Id use a number of nodes to detect a players presence around the track then if wp1, and if wp2 and ... then both players inevitably make it to the end or die trying... then save players crossing the finish line in a list with the lowest value index being the winner. Does that sound about right?
17:13 daiNoZord Actually - the finish line doesnt make sense - I over-complicated it. As soon as first player crosses - send chat and game over
17:14 daiNoZord waypoints were a great idea tho - if ive got the idea of doing those right :)
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17:19 adfeno Hi there, is there any mod to bridge a XMPP room to a Minetest server ?
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17:45 MTDiscord <c​obs> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/803319719112998922/MV5QoMLywAKwixHnRSZpEFaAuLAJe1PURjAYoWadUSAAx3AADLHQAAzDMpWHeAJovsDkBWlclttgOMCqZGozcyCq8DAA4s6qZsyG.png
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17:50 Krock fake. there's no reflection of the sun in the water
17:51 MTDiscord <o​neplustwo> fake. the sun is square
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19:01 Rumored :--<
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19:20 Rumored :--<
19:20 nephele I agree
19:23 Rumored was kicked by rubenwardy: kick
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20:25 Sven_vB hi :) in 5.3.0 in singleplayer, do we have some mechanism to interactively try LUA commands that would be available for a server-side mod?
20:25 Sven_vB on linux btw
20:25 Sven_vB ideally I'd like to connect a TTY to a LUA REPL
20:28 Krock wait what I know this name
20:29 Krock WorldEdit has a //lua command
20:29 Sven_vB thanks, I'll install that and try.
20:30 Krock does not cover the "ideally" case though. you'd need a custom mod to implement that
20:31 Sven_vB I'll just have xdotool type into the chat console for now
20:34 Sven_vB my content browser says "ownloading..." for one of the mods I found. should there be a progress bar?
20:35 Sven_vB most of the "d" in front is cut off, so maybe is the progress in front of that?
20:36 Krock There's no progress bar
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