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IRC log for #minetest, 2020-12-08

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:09 perrier all pumpkins must be made into jack-o'-lanterns unless you want to make pumpkin bread.
00:10 iamweasel replacer tool sets param2 though, so you can place one node with ceiling or screwdriver, set up replacer, and then use it to build identical nodes by attaching to their sides or whatnot
00:14 perrier I haven't used the screwdriver yet. I used the wrench one time.
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00:21 hisforever I'm hafing trouble ith billboard mod. I copye the code to botton and add my own picture mane in the right place. but get error mesage. here is the billbord nides.lua.  https://pastebin.com/cauh5aH1
00:22 hisforever sorry for typoes
00:23 hisforever nodes. lua
00:26 hisforever I think I'm putting the {-} in the wrong places?
00:31 hisforever here is the error in mt .https://imgur.com/a/jurc7nx
01:40 cheapie !tell hisforever Extra { on line 119
01:40 MinetestBot cheapie: I'll pass that on when hisforever is around
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06:03 tango_ iamweasel: in moreblocks it seems slabs don't copy param2
06:03 tango_ so if I set a slab correctly, I cannot just place another next to it to have it come up same asit
06:03 tango_ as it
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06:42 systwi tango_, specing: I'm just using minetest_game, single player. I don't have any farming-related mods installed, excluding any Minetest default mods and TenPlus1's `bonemeal' (which oddly enough doesn't grow papyrus when clicked)
06:44 systwi The papyrus is sitting on default:dirt and default:dirt_with_grass, neither grow at all. Both are planted right next to still water.
06:45 systwi I haven't tried other biomes. I need to find the one I got the papyrus from again to try planting it there.
06:47 systwi I'll also try placing some on default:sand and default:silver_sand to see if that works.
06:50 iamweasel systwi: have you tried restarting the server?
06:51 iamweasel i've had (non-reproducible) issues with growing some crop before, they seemed to go away after server restart
06:51 systwi Yes. Since I play it in single player, the server is restarted each time Minetest is exited and reopened.
06:51 iamweasel kk
06:51 iamweasel weird
06:51 systwi Thanks for the suggestion
06:53 iamweasel re bonemeal: it's a great mod, but it only works on a set list of crops, and cactus-like crops (papyrus is one of them) are not supported afaik
06:53 systwi Flowers also don't appear to renew either. The wiki article, while last updated in 2019, doesn't state that flowers can't grow in biomes such as tundra beaches.
06:54 iamweasel i do not believe crops check biomes
06:54 systwi Ah okay, that makes sense. I thought maybe it was supported since using the bonemeal on the papyrus would still use up bonemeal.
06:55 systwi Strangely enough, cotton, wheat and blueberries renew perfectly fine in the same biome.
06:55 systwi Tree saplings as well.
06:56 iamweasel can you do a screenshot of your papyrus patch?
06:56 systwi Sure, I'll send one over in a few minutes.
06:56 iamweasel no rush
06:59 iamweasel yeah the other thing about papyrus, it needs 14 light
06:59 iamweasel or 13 light
06:59 iamweasel very high
07:00 iamweasel underground, needs to have super-glow-glass (14) next to it to advance
07:00 iamweasel even the slightest shadow could ruin it
07:05 tango_ that's true for most crops iirc
07:06 iamweasel lots of them are 12 i think
07:09 systwi https://i.ibb.co/zR4pxpN/Screen-Shot-2020-12-08-at-1-04-53-AM.png
07:10 systwi The two on the left are mud blocks -- the blocks the papyrus were originally growing from when I found them.
07:10 systwi *Right, sorry
07:12 tango_ uh what papyrus is this?
07:12 systwi I was reading up on the lighting too. The sun is 15 I believe, and from what I can tell they get ample lighting. My next step was to try building a glowing block and setting it right next to the papyrus to see how that would do (haven't found every supply yet iirc).
07:12 tango_ is this default:papyrus? never seen it like this
07:12 tango_ no, sun should be sufficient
07:13 systwi Oh, my mistake, it's labelled as "reed". Not sure where it's from.
07:14 systwi I don't know how to check.
07:14 systwi When I originally looked it up, I did type in "reed" which redirected to the papyrus wiki article.
07:14 tango_ systwi: when you point to it it should give you the name
07:15 systwi swaz:reed
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07:15 tango_ wut
07:15 systwi lol let me look through my mods again
07:15 tango_ yep you definitely have something else
07:16 systwi I think it's "SwampZ by runs"
07:16 systwi I looked up swaz and that one is installed.
07:17 systwi My mistake, sorry for the confusion :-S
07:17 tango_ oh then the growing conditions are probably different
07:18 systwi That would explain it
07:18 tango_ I guess this is it: https://content.minetest.net/packages/runs/swaz/
07:19 systwi Yep, that's it.
07:19 tango_ this is the code https://github.com/runsy/swaz/blob/master/init.lua
07:20 tango_ it doesn't seem like it can be planted though?
07:22 systwi Huh, I guess not. I have a rough idea as to what I'm looking at, but I don't know Lua.
07:23 systwi Well thanks anyway to everyone who helped. Just another PEBKAC error hahaha.
07:27 tango_ systwi: for there to be a growing action the mod should have somewhere a register_abm
07:28 tango_ systwi: see e.g. https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/functions.lua#L224 and https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/functions.lua#L266
07:28 tango_ (for the way papyrus is handled in MTG)
07:29 tango_ the swaz mod has only one source file and there doesn't seem to be anything about growing (no abms at all)
07:29 tango_ I mean you could open an issue ;-)
07:36 systwi Thanks for the info. I would open an issue but my GitHub account is locked because I created it while using a VPN (still trying to resolve that problem).
07:44 iamweasel systwi: this ain't papyrus i guess :)
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08:32 Mia12 Is there a way to override the default place behavior? I'm trying to make it so when I place a specific block it instead places it in a fixed distance away from the initial place pos
08:39 Mia12 Is it just a simple as defining a new on_place function? does that replace the original on_place functionality?
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09:12 sfan5 you can override minetest.item_place
09:16 Mia12 on a item by item basis?
09:18 sfan5 no that would be on_place
09:18 sfan5 minetest.item_place is a global function
09:18 sfan5 sounds like you actually want on_place though
09:19 Mia12 gotcha
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09:46 tango_ anyway, the real issue with slabs etc is that they occupy a whole block even if they are only half a block tall
09:46 tango_ but I can see why it'd be nearly impossible to handle them any other way
09:47 tango_ I mean, one-block blocks above it could be dropped by half a block visually and for interactions, but other half-blocks would completely mess things up
09:50 iamweasel yeah, at least it makes sense. sometimes you would not want the to drop :) like if you want to make a "window" by replacing a solid block in a wall with a slab
09:50 iamweasel it's an architectural challenge for sure though...
09:57 Mia12 Where can I find the default on_place?
09:58 sfan5 minetest.item_place
09:59 Mia12 Like in the source code
10:00 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/game/item.lua#L419
10:01 Mia12 Thanks!
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13:32 tango_ Calinou: no clear super glowing glass? 8-D
13:32 tango_ or super glowing clear glass, not sure what the grammar rules for english are here
13:34 Calinou I suppose that could be added, not sure what the crafting recipe would be
13:34 Calinou (there would probably be 2 different ways to craft it)
13:34 Calinou if not 3 :P
13:36 tango_ Calinou: torches over clear glass, just like (super) glowing glass?
13:36 tango_ or sweeper over super glow, sure
13:36 tango_ “why not both”
13:37 tango_ the empty vs full bookshelf I find pretty annoying. we need some way to change the texture of a container depending on what/if it has things inside
13:37 Calinou feel free to open a pull request :)
13:37 tango_ Calinou: sure
13:38 tango_ Calinou: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks this the official repo?
13:38 Calinou yep
13:39 tango_ btw concerning the placement of slabs and stairs, I think the code from the “fixes" mod is actually just the MTG one (re: licensing)
13:40 Calinou ah, I guess you can open a PR for it too then
13:40 Calinou (separately)
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13:42 tango_ of course
13:46 tango_ Calinou: do you prefer clean glow glass or glow clean glass?
13:46 tango_ term-wise
13:46 Calinou Clean Glow Glass and Clean Super Glow Glass sound better to me
13:47 tango_ OK
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13:50 tango_ oh boy all these combos ...
13:50 tango_ I wonder I should make a lua function to create the “clean" alternatives for everything
13:51 tango_ (it's missing e.g. also for traps etc)
13:51 tluna_ is wiki closed to editing by strangers forever?
13:58 Calinou tluna_: no, but you need to request an account to edit it
13:58 Calinou PM me your email address and desired username :)
13:58 Calinou (/query Calinou)
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14:30 tango_ Calinou: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/pull/159 8-)
14:30 Calinou ah, I see you used colorize to avoid adding any textures
14:31 Calinou probably a good move so that third-party texture packs don't need to be updated
14:31 tango_ Calinou: I mean, I just followed what was already there 8-)
14:31 Calinou could you edit CHANGELOG.md in your PR as well?
14:31 tango_ I think most of those defines could probably be scripted
14:31 tango_ Calinou: sure
14:32 tango_ Calinou: force-pushed
14:33 tango_ now for the placement thing the big issue is that the MTG way loses the possibility to place slabs vertically, IIRC
14:33 tango_ I wonder if there's some way to have both
14:34 Calinou yeah, that's quite bad
14:34 Calinou maybe when holding Shfit only?
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14:34 tango_ but shift does the alternative already
14:34 tango_ (vertical if horizontal, horizontal if vertical)
14:34 tango_ we need more modifiers
14:34 tango_ ctrl+shift+alt+win+double-click while squinting
14:35 Calinou heh
14:35 Calinou reminds me of an easter egg in WxWidgets
14:35 tango_ actually just copying param2 would be a HUGE step forward
14:35 Calinou in any wxWidgets app, do an Ctrl + Alt + Middle click
14:35 tango_ I could maybe implement that
14:35 Calinou (you'll get an about dialog)
14:36 tango_ wasn't that shift?
14:36 tango_ maybe it was alt
14:36 tango_ anywa
14:36 tango_ do we support alt+click things?
14:36 Calinou nope
14:36 tango_ alt would make sense since it's an ALTernate placement strategy ...
14:37 Calinou also a bad idea because most Linux window managers will intercept it by default
14:37 tango_ I never understood why the sneak key was used for alt action
14:37 tango_ oh
14:37 Calinou it's because it's sent to the server :P
14:37 Calinou it would be good if we had 3-4 hardcoded special keys already
14:37 Calinou we only have 1 right now (fast mode)
14:37 tango_ what's fast mode?
14:38 tango_ oh sneak vs no sneak
14:38 Calinou no, that's different
14:38 Calinou special1 is bound to E by default
14:38 Calinou if fast mode is enabled, you will move faster while holding it
14:38 tango_ ah
14:39 tango_ can on_place detect e being pressed?
14:39 tango_ we could abuse it for the alt placement
14:40 tango_ aha! but wait, maybe we have a solution
14:41 tango_ so the idea is that to place things in the upper half of the block you want to do the placement while pointing at the upper half of the face of the block
14:41 tango_ while doing a horizontal placement
14:42 tango_ SO, we could do that with shift we do the “perpendicular” placement with the correct up-down (or left/rigt) orientation
14:42 tango_ while simple click follows the same approach as the current one
14:43 tango_ a simpler approach would be to allow creation of a frigging wooden screwdriver instead of requiring iron
14:45 tango_ (but still, when placing several slabs, just copying param2 would be enough
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16:20 tango_ Calinou: I just discovered compressed blocks in moreblocks. would you accept a patch that allowed gravel to be compressed into cobblestone?
16:20 tango_ (and why not, also the reverse: expand a cobblestone into 9 gravels)
16:22 MTDiscord <w​war> So a block that is even cheaper than cobble
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16:27 rubenwardy I always thought this is weird. Digging stone things with a pickaxe should give you gravel, which then compresses into cobblestone like said
16:30 tango_ rubenwardy: RIGHT?
16:30 specing tango_: gravel -> cobble is unnecessary, because of cobblegens
16:30 tango_ rubenwardy: not even though, cobbles could be naturally occurring e.g. in riverbeds
16:30 specing I agree here
16:30 specing and also with rubenwardy
16:31 tango_ but then you wouldln't know if it was cobbles or a dungeon cobblestone
16:31 specing also, if you want nice riverbeds, check out ocean cobble
16:31 tango_ specing: the point of grave-> cobble isn't to produce cobble, it's to get rid of gravel
16:31 tango_ specing: this is in the framework of moreblocks' compressed stuff blocks
16:32 Calinou tango_: that doesn't really make sense to me, also don't we already have tar as compressed gravel?
16:32 Calinou (which is a nice block for roads)
16:32 tango_ compressing gravel gives you cobblestone, since the geological distinction between gravel and cobbles is lithification
16:32 tango_ Calinou: hm let me check
16:32 specing tango_: you want to get rid of gravel? Thrash it
16:32 tango_ I'm still a bit unfamiliar with all the moreblocks details
16:33 tango_ specing: I prefer recycling 8-D
16:33 specing tango_: or install techpack and use gravel sieves
16:33 tango_ Calinou: tar is made by cooking pine
16:34 Calinou oh, that changed?
16:34 tango_ if I'm reading the code correctly
16:34 tango_ Calinou: e6b5336bad80395c90e2aefa9ded9ac0b59f01dc
16:35 tango_ apparently to solve conflicts with other mods
16:36 Calinou I see
16:36 Calinou so I suppose it's not a good idea to add a gravel recipe in moreblocks then
16:37 tango_ Calinou: but it was a cooking recipe
16:37 Calinou right
16:37 tango_ I was thinking about a simple crafting, like for compressed dirt
16:38 tango_ I don't know if there are 9-gravel recipes in other mods though
16:38 tango_ anyway, I should probably look into the placement thing first
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17:29 tango_ damn, default doesn't expose rotate_and_place
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17:39 MTDiscord <w​war> If u gonna make cobble occur naturally, make a better texture this one will show like grief
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17:56 specing I recommend using ocean cobble
17:56 specing instead of cobble for river/ocean flooring
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17:58 MTDiscord <J​onathon> ocean cobble from what mod/game?
18:00 specing I don't know, the person on whose server I found it, doesen't publish a repo list
18:01 tango_ OK I need to understand better the difference between under and above for pointed_thing
18:01 tango_ under I assume is the pos of the node I'm pointing at
18:01 tango_ but above?
18:01 MTDiscord <J​onathon> specing: /mods or serverlist?
18:01 MTDiscord <J​onathon> and f5 to get maybe the modname?
18:02 specing It's "Your land" and the server list has no list of mods right now
18:02 specing bugged to hell
18:02 MTDiscord <J​onathon> oh, that place, i believe i know where there mod list is, give me a sec
18:03 tango_ xocean possibly
18:03 specing xocean:ocean_cobble
18:03 specing yes
18:04 MTDiscord <J​onathon> ah, nevermind then
18:05 MTDiscord <J​onathon> and ty
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18:29 tango_ ah under = pos that would be dug vs above = pos where would be placed
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18:33 specing tango_: I view it as defining a face which is being dug/placed
18:33 tango_ specing: yeah just got it
18:33 tango_ I'll propose a doc enhancement
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19:05 rubenwardy tango_: it's relative to the face you're pointing at. Under is the node behind that face, above is before that face
19:06 rubenwardy So if you're pointing at a wall, under will be the wall node you're pointing at, and above will be the air node before it
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19:13 tango_ rubenwardy: yes, but I was trying to build a better mental concept based on the logic behind the rotate_and_place function
19:14 tango_ to understand the logic behind the choice of facedir
19:14 rubenwardy Well, that's exactly how it works
19:15 rubenwardy Another way to think about it is in terms of a ray - a 3d line
19:15 rubenwardy Under is after collision, above is before
19:16 VanessaE ^ unless the pointed thing is buildable_to
19:16 rubenwardy Does that actually effect pointed thing? It shouldn't
19:17 VanessaE well, there was a time when .under and .above would behave differently
19:18 VanessaE I think at the time, the pointed thing would be .above and the node behind it would be .under
19:18 VanessaE as if the buildable_to thing wasn't there at all
19:18 VanessaE that's tripped me up a few times in the past
19:19 VanessaE but maybe I'm wrong or just forgot.
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19:32 tango_ rubenwardy: I would use before/after rather than under/above, for the ray
19:32 tango_ re. buildable_to, I do see some checks about that here and there
19:32 tango_ don't know if they are leftovers from a different time or intentional still though
19:34 rubenwardy before/after make more sense as names
19:38 tango_ that being said, I still don't understand the logic behind rotate_and_place
19:38 VanessaE neither do I anymore, and I wrote it :)
19:39 VanessaE (then ShadowNinja reworked a good portion of it)
19:39 iamweasel if you do it alot, it starts making sense on a viceral level :)
19:39 VanessaE my original intent was simply to detect floor, ceiling, or wall
19:41 tango_ it does more than that though, and I like that second part: it does wall vs ceiling based on which half of the under node is being pointed at, except that it does it using the above dir to faceidr
19:41 tango_ I mean, it works, obviously, but I'm thoroughly confused
19:41 tango_ hm well except it never does vertical alignment for me, which I guess would be a problem, but there might be other effects at play there
19:48 VanessaE *shrug* it was written at a time when all we had to go on were your look yaw and pitch
19:51 tango_ ok so I'd be better off thinking about how to do it with the modern API
19:51 VanessaE yeah
19:51 VanessaE might be time to rewrite it again :)
20:20 * specing unlocked achievement: getting dump() from builting to crash
20:20 specing builtin*
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20:33 MinetestBot hisforever: Dec-08 01:40 UTC <cheapie> Extra { on line 119
20:37 hisforever Hi I'm totally lost :(. Here is my debug page, https://pastebin.com/9bg7SStg   . I know hothing about code. I have to much to start new please Help?
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20:41 specing 2020-12-08 21:40:27: ERROR[Main]: ModError: Runtime error from mod 'testing' in callback on_item_use(): *builtin*:common/misc_helpers.lua:128: attempt to call global 'getmetatable' (a nil value)
20:41 specing what the...
20:41 luk3yx specing: Are you running dump() from a CSM?
20:42 specing Yes luk3yx
20:42 specing It used to work...
20:42 luk3yx I'm guessing no-one has tested dump() in CSMs
20:42 luk3yx CSMs block getmetatable for security (presumably)
20:42 specing Lua refman says getmetatable is in debug.getmetatable
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20:45 hisforever may I stepin please what is CSM?
20:45 MTDiscord <J​onathon> client side mod
20:45 hisforever thanks
20:46 hisforever I omly play on my machine
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20:52 hisforever I upgraded Dreambuilders today and everything went belly up lol
20:54 specing luk3yx: ah yes, clientmods/preview/init.lua also has multiple calls to dump, so I guess it is adequately tested
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20:57 specing But I guess it was never dumping userdata, perhaps the bug is in dump()
20:57 * specing tests
21:02 Krock there's an open issue about that
21:02 Krock either for dump or serialize(), not sure.
21:08 hisforever here is a image of the error https://imgur.com/a/Ag3AGtq
21:14 specing luk3yx: you are correct, debug.getmetatable is disabled from CSMs. However, dump() from builtin still calls it even when invoked from CSMs.
21:15 VanessaE hisforever: you have too many mods installed
21:15 VanessaE probably something you added outside of dreambuilder which hooks into Moreblocks/stairsplus
21:20 hisforever VanessaE: thanks I'll see what I just installed :)
21:20 MinetestBot [git] auouymous -> minetest/minetest_game: Don't replace protected liquids with bones (#2790) 7ae983b https://git.io/JIEDt (2020-12-08T21:20:16Z)
21:21 Krock *too many enabled
21:23 VanessaE Krock: yeah.
21:24 VanessaE MT needs a higher limit
21:24 VanessaE I knew sooner or later someone was gonna hit the 32k limit :)
21:26 Krock *intentionally not replying directly because it would be a long discussion*
21:26 VanessaE chickenshit ;)
21:27 Krock eww
21:27 VanessaE ok, s/shit//
21:27 VanessaE just chicken then :)
21:28 specing VanessaE: I thought that said limit was already hit multiple times?
21:28 Krock 🐔
21:28 VanessaE specing: well it has been yeah
21:28 specing When crops have _1 .. _8 for growth and there being stairs and microblocks for dozens of nodes...
21:29 VanessaE yup
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21:29 VanessaE imagine how bad it would have been had hardware coloring not become a thing :)
21:30 VanessaE to say nothing of how limiting it was having the original limit of...what was it, 4k nodes? :P
21:30 MTDiscord <J​onathon> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6101
21:31 VanessaE yeah I was thinking of just that, too
21:32 VanessaE but now I'm not sure keeping the limit under 64k will work out, either
21:32 VanessaE I say just add another ID byte :)
21:32 specing yes
21:32 MTDiscord <J​onathon> could get into the "param3" argument as well
21:32 specing 24bit node id+ 8 bit node change id + 8 bit microblock id
21:32 VanessaE J​onathon yeah
21:33 specing the node change id would be for things like crops (same node different textures)
21:33 VanessaE nah, that's overkill
21:34 VanessaE however, I did propose a while back, having a one-byte field for a texture table
21:34 rubenwardy fields should be byte aligned really
21:34 VanessaE (it would be an index into a table of tiles{} tables)
21:35 rubenwardy however - content_id is already u16, max=65,000. The other half is taken by unknown, which is a bit ridiculous. Could have a sliding border
21:36 rubenwardy I know you know of this
21:36 VanessaE afaik the only reason it's u16 at all is because of fear of making the map database bigger
21:37 VanessaE though if large IDs were stored on a block-by-block basis, the map database would barely change at all
21:37 luk3yx I like that idea
21:38 VanessaE (i.e. why store 6+ bytes per node if all nodes in a block can be done in 4 bytes per)
21:39 rubenwardy there's also in-memory cost
21:39 rubenwardy although, I wonder how much that matters in terms of contiguity
21:39 VanessaE perhaps, but how much RAM are we talking about?
21:39 rubenwardy it's not about RAM
21:39 rubenwardy it's about contiguity
21:40 rubenwardy CPUs have memory caches, it's faster to access tightly packed memory next to each other
21:40 VanessaE oh you meant on that level
21:41 VanessaE to be fair, CPU cache is still RAM ;)
21:44 VanessaE however, even my old-ass Phenom II 6MB of cache in it
21:44 VanessaE (the Phenom I has 2MB)
21:45 VanessaE so is that really even an issue when each mapblock would only be 24kB (if using 6 bytes per node)
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21:47 tango_ I've actually been thinking if the block layout should be arranged differently to improve contiguity
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21:48 tango_ for examples depending on what is accessed when, it might be convenient to split node info into multiple arrays so that you have contiguity with similar info from different nodes rather than from different info of the same node
21:49 rubenwardy that sounds more like L3 cache, VanessaE
21:50 VanessaE yeah, my bad
21:50 VanessaE that was L3
21:50 rubenwardy L1 cache is 64KB
21:51 VanessaE still, would it REALLY have much of an impact, considering the sheer volume of data you have you chew on during a normal session?
21:54 tango_ OK I think I managed to do alt placement JUST the way I like it
21:54 tango_ I'm going to provide a PR for moreblocks
21:55 tango_ it should also go to MTG IF IT WASN'T DISCONTINUED
21:55 tango_ 8-/
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22:00 rubenwardy this could probably be considered maintenance rather than a new feature
22:00 tango_ https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/pull/160
22:01 tango_ rubenwardy: not with the attitude some of the core devs have wrt to this kind of work, honestly
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22:14 tango_ oh unusued variable
22:14 tango_ uff
22:14 VanessaE major fail.  the whole thing's gonna blow up :)
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22:19 tango_ VanessaE: 8-)
22:19 tango_ well this is actually giving me an opportunity to debug the placing from below, that I hadn't done yet, so it's better this way
22:21 VanessaE what's next, a typo in a comment?  the horror!
22:21 VanessaE :)
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22:43 tango_ ah, much better now
22:50 tango_ OK now checks pass too 8-)
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22:55 tango_ now I'm thinking that maybe we can just use sneak
22:56 tango_ instead of aux
22:56 tango_ it makes sense because we're building perperndicularly, after all
22:56 tango_ simply with a better rotation choice (I think)
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22:58 tango_ ah, the difference is that if we take over the sneak placement we can't build perpendicularly to other slabs
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23:49 specing I wonder
23:49 specing How much RAM is taken up by node data? As in, just the IDs and param2 and other mandatory attributes?
23:50 specing *on a server, compared to how much RAM is taken by other stuff
23:52 VanessaE the worst I've ever seen was a few gigs on my biggest servers
23:53 VanessaE like 7 instances taken together regularly use between 4 and 6 GB
23:53 VanessaE two instances run Dreambuilder, the others are much slimmer
23:54 VanessaE sometimes more, depends on mods' usage I guess.  memory leaks and like that
23:55 VanessaE the biggest map database is 65 GB

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