| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:09 |
perrier |
all pumpkins must be made into jack-o'-lanterns unless you want to make pumpkin bread. |
| 00:10 |
iamweasel |
replacer tool sets param2 though, so you can place one node with ceiling or screwdriver, set up replacer, and then use it to build identical nodes by attaching to their sides or whatnot |
| 00:14 |
perrier |
I haven't used the screwdriver yet. I used the wrench one time. |
| 00:17 |
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| 00:21 |
hisforever |
I'm hafing trouble ith billboard mod. I copye the code to botton and add my own picture mane in the right place. but get error mesage. here is the billbord nides.lua. https://pastebin.com/cauh5aH1 |
| 00:22 |
hisforever |
sorry for typoes |
| 00:23 |
hisforever |
nodes. lua |
| 00:26 |
hisforever |
I think I'm putting the {-} in the wrong places? |
| 00:31 |
hisforever |
here is the error in mt .https://imgur.com/a/jurc7nx |
| 01:40 |
cheapie |
!tell hisforever Extra { on line 119 |
| 01:40 |
MinetestBot |
cheapie: I'll pass that on when hisforever is around |
| 02:16 |
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| 06:03 |
tango_ |
iamweasel: in moreblocks it seems slabs don't copy param2 |
| 06:03 |
tango_ |
so if I set a slab correctly, I cannot just place another next to it to have it come up same asit |
| 06:03 |
tango_ |
as it |
| 06:06 |
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| 06:42 |
systwi |
tango_, specing: I'm just using minetest_game, single player. I don't have any farming-related mods installed, excluding any Minetest default mods and TenPlus1's `bonemeal' (which oddly enough doesn't grow papyrus when clicked) |
| 06:44 |
systwi |
The papyrus is sitting on default:dirt and default:dirt_with_grass, neither grow at all. Both are planted right next to still water. |
| 06:45 |
systwi |
I haven't tried other biomes. I need to find the one I got the papyrus from again to try planting it there. |
| 06:47 |
systwi |
I'll also try placing some on default:sand and default:silver_sand to see if that works. |
| 06:50 |
iamweasel |
systwi: have you tried restarting the server? |
| 06:51 |
iamweasel |
i've had (non-reproducible) issues with growing some crop before, they seemed to go away after server restart |
| 06:51 |
systwi |
Yes. Since I play it in single player, the server is restarted each time Minetest is exited and reopened. |
| 06:51 |
iamweasel |
kk |
| 06:51 |
iamweasel |
weird |
| 06:51 |
systwi |
Thanks for the suggestion |
| 06:53 |
iamweasel |
re bonemeal: it's a great mod, but it only works on a set list of crops, and cactus-like crops (papyrus is one of them) are not supported afaik |
| 06:53 |
systwi |
Flowers also don't appear to renew either. The wiki article, while last updated in 2019, doesn't state that flowers can't grow in biomes such as tundra beaches. |
| 06:54 |
iamweasel |
i do not believe crops check biomes |
| 06:54 |
systwi |
Ah okay, that makes sense. I thought maybe it was supported since using the bonemeal on the papyrus would still use up bonemeal. |
| 06:55 |
systwi |
Strangely enough, cotton, wheat and blueberries renew perfectly fine in the same biome. |
| 06:55 |
systwi |
Tree saplings as well. |
| 06:56 |
iamweasel |
can you do a screenshot of your papyrus patch? |
| 06:56 |
systwi |
Sure, I'll send one over in a few minutes. |
| 06:56 |
iamweasel |
no rush |
| 06:59 |
iamweasel |
yeah the other thing about papyrus, it needs 14 light |
| 06:59 |
iamweasel |
or 13 light |
| 06:59 |
iamweasel |
very high |
| 07:00 |
iamweasel |
underground, needs to have super-glow-glass (14) next to it to advance |
| 07:00 |
iamweasel |
even the slightest shadow could ruin it |
| 07:05 |
tango_ |
that's true for most crops iirc |
| 07:06 |
iamweasel |
lots of them are 12 i think |
| 07:09 |
systwi |
https://i.ibb.co/zR4pxpN/Screen-Shot-2020-12-08-at-1-04-53-AM.png |
| 07:10 |
systwi |
The two on the left are mud blocks -- the blocks the papyrus were originally growing from when I found them. |
| 07:10 |
systwi |
*Right, sorry |
| 07:12 |
tango_ |
uh what papyrus is this? |
| 07:12 |
systwi |
I was reading up on the lighting too. The sun is 15 I believe, and from what I can tell they get ample lighting. My next step was to try building a glowing block and setting it right next to the papyrus to see how that would do (haven't found every supply yet iirc). |
| 07:12 |
tango_ |
is this default:papyrus? never seen it like this |
| 07:12 |
tango_ |
no, sun should be sufficient |
| 07:13 |
systwi |
Oh, my mistake, it's labelled as "reed". Not sure where it's from. |
| 07:14 |
systwi |
I don't know how to check. |
| 07:14 |
systwi |
When I originally looked it up, I did type in "reed" which redirected to the papyrus wiki article. |
| 07:14 |
tango_ |
systwi: when you point to it it should give you the name |
| 07:15 |
systwi |
swaz:reed |
| 07:15 |
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| 07:15 |
tango_ |
wut |
| 07:15 |
systwi |
lol let me look through my mods again |
| 07:15 |
tango_ |
yep you definitely have something else |
| 07:16 |
systwi |
I think it's "SwampZ by runs" |
| 07:16 |
systwi |
I looked up swaz and that one is installed. |
| 07:17 |
systwi |
My mistake, sorry for the confusion :-S |
| 07:17 |
tango_ |
oh then the growing conditions are probably different |
| 07:18 |
systwi |
That would explain it |
| 07:18 |
tango_ |
I guess this is it: https://content.minetest.net/packages/runs/swaz/ |
| 07:19 |
systwi |
Yep, that's it. |
| 07:19 |
tango_ |
this is the code https://github.com/runsy/swaz/blob/master/init.lua |
| 07:20 |
tango_ |
it doesn't seem like it can be planted though? |
| 07:22 |
systwi |
Huh, I guess not. I have a rough idea as to what I'm looking at, but I don't know Lua. |
| 07:23 |
systwi |
Well thanks anyway to everyone who helped. Just another PEBKAC error hahaha. |
| 07:27 |
tango_ |
systwi: for there to be a growing action the mod should have somewhere a register_abm |
| 07:28 |
tango_ |
systwi: see e.g. https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/functions.lua#L224 and https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/functions.lua#L266 |
| 07:28 |
tango_ |
(for the way papyrus is handled in MTG) |
| 07:29 |
tango_ |
the swaz mod has only one source file and there doesn't seem to be anything about growing (no abms at all) |
| 07:29 |
tango_ |
I mean you could open an issue ;-) |
| 07:36 |
systwi |
Thanks for the info. I would open an issue but my GitHub account is locked because I created it while using a VPN (still trying to resolve that problem). |
| 07:44 |
iamweasel |
systwi: this ain't papyrus i guess :) |
| 07:54 |
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| 08:27 |
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| 08:32 |
Mia12 |
Is there a way to override the default place behavior? I'm trying to make it so when I place a specific block it instead places it in a fixed distance away from the initial place pos |
| 08:39 |
Mia12 |
Is it just a simple as defining a new on_place function? does that replace the original on_place functionality? |
| 08:59 |
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| 09:11 |
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| 09:12 |
sfan5 |
you can override minetest.item_place |
| 09:16 |
Mia12 |
on a item by item basis? |
| 09:18 |
sfan5 |
no that would be on_place |
| 09:18 |
sfan5 |
minetest.item_place is a global function |
| 09:18 |
sfan5 |
sounds like you actually want on_place though |
| 09:19 |
Mia12 |
gotcha |
| 09:26 |
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| 09:46 |
tango_ |
anyway, the real issue with slabs etc is that they occupy a whole block even if they are only half a block tall |
| 09:46 |
tango_ |
but I can see why it'd be nearly impossible to handle them any other way |
| 09:47 |
tango_ |
I mean, one-block blocks above it could be dropped by half a block visually and for interactions, but other half-blocks would completely mess things up |
| 09:50 |
iamweasel |
yeah, at least it makes sense. sometimes you would not want the to drop :) like if you want to make a "window" by replacing a solid block in a wall with a slab |
| 09:50 |
iamweasel |
it's an architectural challenge for sure though... |
| 09:57 |
Mia12 |
Where can I find the default on_place? |
| 09:58 |
sfan5 |
minetest.item_place |
| 09:59 |
Mia12 |
Like in the source code |
| 10:00 |
sfan5 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/game/item.lua#L419 |
| 10:01 |
Mia12 |
Thanks! |
| 10:14 |
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| 13:07 |
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| 13:12 |
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| 13:32 |
tango_ |
Calinou: no clear super glowing glass? 8-D |
| 13:32 |
tango_ |
or super glowing clear glass, not sure what the grammar rules for english are here |
| 13:34 |
Calinou |
I suppose that could be added, not sure what the crafting recipe would be |
| 13:34 |
Calinou |
(there would probably be 2 different ways to craft it) |
| 13:34 |
Calinou |
if not 3 :P |
| 13:36 |
tango_ |
Calinou: torches over clear glass, just like (super) glowing glass? |
| 13:36 |
tango_ |
or sweeper over super glow, sure |
| 13:36 |
tango_ |
“why not both” |
| 13:37 |
tango_ |
the empty vs full bookshelf I find pretty annoying. we need some way to change the texture of a container depending on what/if it has things inside |
| 13:37 |
Calinou |
feel free to open a pull request :) |
| 13:37 |
tango_ |
Calinou: sure |
| 13:38 |
tango_ |
Calinou: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks this the official repo? |
| 13:38 |
Calinou |
yep |
| 13:39 |
tango_ |
btw concerning the placement of slabs and stairs, I think the code from the “fixes" mod is actually just the MTG one (re: licensing) |
| 13:40 |
Calinou |
ah, I guess you can open a PR for it too then |
| 13:40 |
Calinou |
(separately) |
| 13:41 |
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| 13:42 |
tango_ |
of course |
| 13:46 |
tango_ |
Calinou: do you prefer clean glow glass or glow clean glass? |
| 13:46 |
tango_ |
term-wise |
| 13:46 |
Calinou |
Clean Glow Glass and Clean Super Glow Glass sound better to me |
| 13:47 |
tango_ |
OK |
| 13:49 |
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| 13:50 |
tango_ |
oh boy all these combos ... |
| 13:50 |
tango_ |
I wonder I should make a lua function to create the “clean" alternatives for everything |
| 13:51 |
tango_ |
(it's missing e.g. also for traps etc) |
| 13:51 |
tluna_ |
is wiki closed to editing by strangers forever? |
| 13:58 |
Calinou |
tluna_: no, but you need to request an account to edit it |
| 13:58 |
Calinou |
PM me your email address and desired username :) |
| 13:58 |
Calinou |
(/query Calinou) |
| 13:59 |
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| 14:30 |
tango_ |
Calinou: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/pull/159 8-) |
| 14:30 |
Calinou |
ah, I see you used colorize to avoid adding any textures |
| 14:31 |
Calinou |
probably a good move so that third-party texture packs don't need to be updated |
| 14:31 |
tango_ |
Calinou: I mean, I just followed what was already there 8-) |
| 14:31 |
Calinou |
could you edit CHANGELOG.md in your PR as well? |
| 14:31 |
tango_ |
I think most of those defines could probably be scripted |
| 14:31 |
tango_ |
Calinou: sure |
| 14:32 |
tango_ |
Calinou: force-pushed |
| 14:33 |
tango_ |
now for the placement thing the big issue is that the MTG way loses the possibility to place slabs vertically, IIRC |
| 14:33 |
tango_ |
I wonder if there's some way to have both |
| 14:34 |
Calinou |
yeah, that's quite bad |
| 14:34 |
Calinou |
maybe when holding Shfit only? |
| 14:34 |
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| 14:34 |
tango_ |
but shift does the alternative already |
| 14:34 |
tango_ |
(vertical if horizontal, horizontal if vertical) |
| 14:34 |
tango_ |
we need more modifiers |
| 14:34 |
tango_ |
ctrl+shift+alt+win+double-click while squinting |
| 14:35 |
Calinou |
heh |
| 14:35 |
Calinou |
reminds me of an easter egg in WxWidgets |
| 14:35 |
tango_ |
actually just copying param2 would be a HUGE step forward |
| 14:35 |
Calinou |
in any wxWidgets app, do an Ctrl + Alt + Middle click |
| 14:35 |
tango_ |
I could maybe implement that |
| 14:35 |
Calinou |
(you'll get an about dialog) |
| 14:36 |
tango_ |
wasn't that shift? |
| 14:36 |
tango_ |
maybe it was alt |
| 14:36 |
tango_ |
anywa |
| 14:36 |
tango_ |
do we support alt+click things? |
| 14:36 |
Calinou |
nope |
| 14:36 |
tango_ |
alt would make sense since it's an ALTernate placement strategy ... |
| 14:37 |
Calinou |
also a bad idea because most Linux window managers will intercept it by default |
| 14:37 |
tango_ |
I never understood why the sneak key was used for alt action |
| 14:37 |
tango_ |
oh |
| 14:37 |
Calinou |
it's because it's sent to the server :P |
| 14:37 |
Calinou |
it would be good if we had 3-4 hardcoded special keys already |
| 14:37 |
Calinou |
we only have 1 right now (fast mode) |
| 14:37 |
tango_ |
what's fast mode? |
| 14:38 |
tango_ |
oh sneak vs no sneak |
| 14:38 |
Calinou |
no, that's different |
| 14:38 |
Calinou |
special1 is bound to E by default |
| 14:38 |
Calinou |
if fast mode is enabled, you will move faster while holding it |
| 14:38 |
tango_ |
ah |
| 14:39 |
tango_ |
can on_place detect e being pressed? |
| 14:39 |
tango_ |
we could abuse it for the alt placement |
| 14:40 |
tango_ |
aha! but wait, maybe we have a solution |
| 14:41 |
tango_ |
so the idea is that to place things in the upper half of the block you want to do the placement while pointing at the upper half of the face of the block |
| 14:41 |
tango_ |
while doing a horizontal placement |
| 14:42 |
tango_ |
SO, we could do that with shift we do the “perpendicular” placement with the correct up-down (or left/rigt) orientation |
| 14:42 |
tango_ |
while simple click follows the same approach as the current one |
| 14:43 |
tango_ |
a simpler approach would be to allow creation of a frigging wooden screwdriver instead of requiring iron |
| 14:45 |
tango_ |
(but still, when placing several slabs, just copying param2 would be enough |
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| 16:20 |
tango_ |
Calinou: I just discovered compressed blocks in moreblocks. would you accept a patch that allowed gravel to be compressed into cobblestone? |
| 16:20 |
tango_ |
(and why not, also the reverse: expand a cobblestone into 9 gravels) |
| 16:22 |
MTDiscord |
<wwar> So a block that is even cheaper than cobble |
| 16:23 |
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| 16:27 |
rubenwardy |
I always thought this is weird. Digging stone things with a pickaxe should give you gravel, which then compresses into cobblestone like said |
| 16:30 |
tango_ |
rubenwardy: RIGHT? |
| 16:30 |
specing |
tango_: gravel -> cobble is unnecessary, because of cobblegens |
| 16:30 |
tango_ |
rubenwardy: not even though, cobbles could be naturally occurring e.g. in riverbeds |
| 16:30 |
specing |
I agree here |
| 16:30 |
specing |
and also with rubenwardy |
| 16:31 |
tango_ |
but then you wouldln't know if it was cobbles or a dungeon cobblestone |
| 16:31 |
specing |
also, if you want nice riverbeds, check out ocean cobble |
| 16:31 |
tango_ |
specing: the point of grave-> cobble isn't to produce cobble, it's to get rid of gravel |
| 16:31 |
tango_ |
specing: this is in the framework of moreblocks' compressed stuff blocks |
| 16:32 |
Calinou |
tango_: that doesn't really make sense to me, also don't we already have tar as compressed gravel? |
| 16:32 |
Calinou |
(which is a nice block for roads) |
| 16:32 |
tango_ |
compressing gravel gives you cobblestone, since the geological distinction between gravel and cobbles is lithification |
| 16:32 |
tango_ |
Calinou: hm let me check |
| 16:32 |
specing |
tango_: you want to get rid of gravel? Thrash it |
| 16:32 |
tango_ |
I'm still a bit unfamiliar with all the moreblocks details |
| 16:33 |
tango_ |
specing: I prefer recycling 8-D |
| 16:33 |
specing |
tango_: or install techpack and use gravel sieves |
| 16:33 |
tango_ |
Calinou: tar is made by cooking pine |
| 16:34 |
Calinou |
oh, that changed? |
| 16:34 |
tango_ |
if I'm reading the code correctly |
| 16:34 |
tango_ |
Calinou: e6b5336bad80395c90e2aefa9ded9ac0b59f01dc |
| 16:35 |
tango_ |
apparently to solve conflicts with other mods |
| 16:36 |
Calinou |
I see |
| 16:36 |
Calinou |
so I suppose it's not a good idea to add a gravel recipe in moreblocks then |
| 16:37 |
tango_ |
Calinou: but it was a cooking recipe |
| 16:37 |
Calinou |
right |
| 16:37 |
tango_ |
I was thinking about a simple crafting, like for compressed dirt |
| 16:38 |
tango_ |
I don't know if there are 9-gravel recipes in other mods though |
| 16:38 |
tango_ |
anyway, I should probably look into the placement thing first |
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tango_ |
damn, default doesn't expose rotate_and_place |
| 17:29 |
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| 17:39 |
MTDiscord |
<wwar> If u gonna make cobble occur naturally, make a better texture this one will show like grief |
| 17:46 |
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| 17:56 |
specing |
I recommend using ocean cobble |
| 17:56 |
specing |
instead of cobble for river/ocean flooring |
| 17:57 |
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| 17:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> ocean cobble from what mod/game? |
| 18:00 |
specing |
I don't know, the person on whose server I found it, doesen't publish a repo list |
| 18:01 |
tango_ |
OK I need to understand better the difference between under and above for pointed_thing |
| 18:01 |
tango_ |
under I assume is the pos of the node I'm pointing at |
| 18:01 |
tango_ |
but above? |
| 18:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> specing: /mods or serverlist? |
| 18:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> and f5 to get maybe the modname? |
| 18:02 |
specing |
It's "Your land" and the server list has no list of mods right now |
| 18:02 |
specing |
bugged to hell |
| 18:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> oh, that place, i believe i know where there mod list is, give me a sec |
| 18:03 |
tango_ |
xocean possibly |
| 18:03 |
specing |
xocean:ocean_cobble |
| 18:03 |
specing |
yes |
| 18:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> ah, nevermind then |
| 18:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> and ty |
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| 18:29 |
tango_ |
ah under = pos that would be dug vs above = pos where would be placed |
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| 18:33 |
specing |
tango_: I view it as defining a face which is being dug/placed |
| 18:33 |
tango_ |
specing: yeah just got it |
| 18:33 |
tango_ |
I'll propose a doc enhancement |
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rubenwardy |
tango_: it's relative to the face you're pointing at. Under is the node behind that face, above is before that face |
| 19:06 |
rubenwardy |
So if you're pointing at a wall, under will be the wall node you're pointing at, and above will be the air node before it |
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| 19:13 |
tango_ |
rubenwardy: yes, but I was trying to build a better mental concept based on the logic behind the rotate_and_place function |
| 19:14 |
tango_ |
to understand the logic behind the choice of facedir |
| 19:14 |
rubenwardy |
Well, that's exactly how it works |
| 19:15 |
rubenwardy |
Another way to think about it is in terms of a ray - a 3d line |
| 19:15 |
rubenwardy |
Under is after collision, above is before |
| 19:16 |
VanessaE |
^ unless the pointed thing is buildable_to |
| 19:16 |
rubenwardy |
Does that actually effect pointed thing? It shouldn't |
| 19:17 |
VanessaE |
well, there was a time when .under and .above would behave differently |
| 19:18 |
VanessaE |
I think at the time, the pointed thing would be .above and the node behind it would be .under |
| 19:18 |
VanessaE |
as if the buildable_to thing wasn't there at all |
| 19:18 |
VanessaE |
that's tripped me up a few times in the past |
| 19:19 |
VanessaE |
but maybe I'm wrong or just forgot. |
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| 19:32 |
tango_ |
rubenwardy: I would use before/after rather than under/above, for the ray |
| 19:32 |
tango_ |
re. buildable_to, I do see some checks about that here and there |
| 19:32 |
tango_ |
don't know if they are leftovers from a different time or intentional still though |
| 19:34 |
rubenwardy |
before/after make more sense as names |
| 19:38 |
tango_ |
that being said, I still don't understand the logic behind rotate_and_place |
| 19:38 |
VanessaE |
neither do I anymore, and I wrote it :) |
| 19:39 |
VanessaE |
(then ShadowNinja reworked a good portion of it) |
| 19:39 |
iamweasel |
if you do it alot, it starts making sense on a viceral level :) |
| 19:39 |
VanessaE |
my original intent was simply to detect floor, ceiling, or wall |
| 19:41 |
tango_ |
it does more than that though, and I like that second part: it does wall vs ceiling based on which half of the under node is being pointed at, except that it does it using the above dir to faceidr |
| 19:41 |
tango_ |
I mean, it works, obviously, but I'm thoroughly confused |
| 19:41 |
tango_ |
hm well except it never does vertical alignment for me, which I guess would be a problem, but there might be other effects at play there |
| 19:48 |
VanessaE |
*shrug* it was written at a time when all we had to go on were your look yaw and pitch |
| 19:51 |
tango_ |
ok so I'd be better off thinking about how to do it with the modern API |
| 19:51 |
VanessaE |
yeah |
| 19:51 |
VanessaE |
might be time to rewrite it again :) |
| 20:20 |
* specing |
unlocked achievement: getting dump() from builting to crash |
| 20:20 |
specing |
builtin* |
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MinetestBot |
hisforever: Dec-08 01:40 UTC <cheapie> Extra { on line 119 |
| 20:37 |
hisforever |
Hi I'm totally lost :(. Here is my debug page, https://pastebin.com/9bg7SStg . I know hothing about code. I have to much to start new please Help? |
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specing |
2020-12-08 21:40:27: ERROR[Main]: ModError: Runtime error from mod 'testing' in callback on_item_use(): *builtin*:common/misc_helpers.lua:128: attempt to call global 'getmetatable' (a nil value) |
| 20:41 |
specing |
what the... |
| 20:41 |
luk3yx |
specing: Are you running dump() from a CSM? |
| 20:42 |
specing |
Yes luk3yx |
| 20:42 |
specing |
It used to work... |
| 20:42 |
luk3yx |
I'm guessing no-one has tested dump() in CSMs |
| 20:42 |
luk3yx |
CSMs block getmetatable for security (presumably) |
| 20:42 |
specing |
Lua refman says getmetatable is in debug.getmetatable |
| 20:44 |
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| 20:45 |
hisforever |
may I stepin please what is CSM? |
| 20:45 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> client side mod |
| 20:45 |
hisforever |
thanks |
| 20:46 |
hisforever |
I omly play on my machine |
| 20:46 |
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| 20:52 |
hisforever |
I upgraded Dreambuilders today and everything went belly up lol |
| 20:54 |
specing |
luk3yx: ah yes, clientmods/preview/init.lua also has multiple calls to dump, so I guess it is adequately tested |
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| 20:57 |
specing |
But I guess it was never dumping userdata, perhaps the bug is in dump() |
| 20:57 |
* specing |
tests |
| 21:02 |
Krock |
there's an open issue about that |
| 21:02 |
Krock |
either for dump or serialize(), not sure. |
| 21:08 |
hisforever |
here is a image of the error https://imgur.com/a/Ag3AGtq |
| 21:14 |
specing |
luk3yx: you are correct, debug.getmetatable is disabled from CSMs. However, dump() from builtin still calls it even when invoked from CSMs. |
| 21:15 |
VanessaE |
hisforever: you have too many mods installed |
| 21:15 |
VanessaE |
probably something you added outside of dreambuilder which hooks into Moreblocks/stairsplus |
| 21:20 |
hisforever |
VanessaE: thanks I'll see what I just installed :) |
| 21:20 |
MinetestBot |
[git] auouymous -> minetest/minetest_game: Don't replace protected liquids with bones (#2790) 7ae983b https://git.io/JIEDt (2020-12-08T21:20:16Z) |
| 21:21 |
Krock |
*too many enabled |
| 21:23 |
VanessaE |
Krock: yeah. |
| 21:24 |
VanessaE |
MT needs a higher limit |
| 21:24 |
VanessaE |
I knew sooner or later someone was gonna hit the 32k limit :) |
| 21:26 |
Krock |
*intentionally not replying directly because it would be a long discussion* |
| 21:26 |
VanessaE |
chickenshit ;) |
| 21:27 |
Krock |
eww |
| 21:27 |
VanessaE |
ok, s/shit// |
| 21:27 |
VanessaE |
just chicken then :) |
| 21:28 |
specing |
VanessaE: I thought that said limit was already hit multiple times? |
| 21:28 |
Krock |
? |
| 21:28 |
VanessaE |
specing: well it has been yeah |
| 21:28 |
specing |
When crops have _1 .. _8 for growth and there being stairs and microblocks for dozens of nodes... |
| 21:29 |
VanessaE |
yup |
| 21:29 |
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| 21:29 |
VanessaE |
imagine how bad it would have been had hardware coloring not become a thing :) |
| 21:30 |
VanessaE |
to say nothing of how limiting it was having the original limit of...what was it, 4k nodes? :P |
| 21:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6101 |
| 21:31 |
VanessaE |
yeah I was thinking of just that, too |
| 21:32 |
VanessaE |
but now I'm not sure keeping the limit under 64k will work out, either |
| 21:32 |
VanessaE |
I say just add another ID byte :) |
| 21:32 |
specing |
yes |
| 21:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> could get into the "param3" argument as well |
| 21:32 |
specing |
24bit node id+ 8 bit node change id + 8 bit microblock id |
| 21:32 |
VanessaE |
Jonathon yeah |
| 21:33 |
specing |
the node change id would be for things like crops (same node different textures) |
| 21:33 |
VanessaE |
nah, that's overkill |
| 21:34 |
VanessaE |
however, I did propose a while back, having a one-byte field for a texture table |
| 21:34 |
rubenwardy |
fields should be byte aligned really |
| 21:34 |
VanessaE |
(it would be an index into a table of tiles{} tables) |
| 21:35 |
rubenwardy |
however - content_id is already u16, max=65,000. The other half is taken by unknown, which is a bit ridiculous. Could have a sliding border |
| 21:36 |
rubenwardy |
I know you know of this |
| 21:36 |
VanessaE |
afaik the only reason it's u16 at all is because of fear of making the map database bigger |
| 21:37 |
VanessaE |
though if large IDs were stored on a block-by-block basis, the map database would barely change at all |
| 21:37 |
luk3yx |
I like that idea |
| 21:38 |
VanessaE |
(i.e. why store 6+ bytes per node if all nodes in a block can be done in 4 bytes per) |
| 21:39 |
rubenwardy |
there's also in-memory cost |
| 21:39 |
rubenwardy |
although, I wonder how much that matters in terms of contiguity |
| 21:39 |
VanessaE |
perhaps, but how much RAM are we talking about? |
| 21:39 |
rubenwardy |
it's not about RAM |
| 21:39 |
rubenwardy |
it's about contiguity |
| 21:40 |
rubenwardy |
CPUs have memory caches, it's faster to access tightly packed memory next to each other |
| 21:40 |
VanessaE |
oh you meant on that level |
| 21:41 |
VanessaE |
to be fair, CPU cache is still RAM ;) |
| 21:44 |
VanessaE |
however, even my old-ass Phenom II 6MB of cache in it |
| 21:44 |
VanessaE |
(the Phenom I has 2MB) |
| 21:45 |
VanessaE |
so is that really even an issue when each mapblock would only be 24kB (if using 6 bytes per node) |
| 21:47 |
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| 21:47 |
tango_ |
I've actually been thinking if the block layout should be arranged differently to improve contiguity |
| 21:48 |
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| 21:48 |
tango_ |
for examples depending on what is accessed when, it might be convenient to split node info into multiple arrays so that you have contiguity with similar info from different nodes rather than from different info of the same node |
| 21:49 |
rubenwardy |
that sounds more like L3 cache, VanessaE |
| 21:50 |
VanessaE |
yeah, my bad |
| 21:50 |
VanessaE |
that was L3 |
| 21:50 |
rubenwardy |
L1 cache is 64KB |
| 21:51 |
VanessaE |
still, would it REALLY have much of an impact, considering the sheer volume of data you have you chew on during a normal session? |
| 21:54 |
tango_ |
OK I think I managed to do alt placement JUST the way I like it |
| 21:54 |
tango_ |
I'm going to provide a PR for moreblocks |
| 21:55 |
tango_ |
it should also go to MTG IF IT WASN'T DISCONTINUED |
| 21:55 |
tango_ |
8-/ |
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| 22:00 |
rubenwardy |
this could probably be considered maintenance rather than a new feature |
| 22:00 |
tango_ |
https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/pull/160 |
| 22:01 |
tango_ |
rubenwardy: not with the attitude some of the core devs have wrt to this kind of work, honestly |
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| 22:14 |
tango_ |
oh unusued variable |
| 22:14 |
tango_ |
uff |
| 22:14 |
VanessaE |
major fail. the whole thing's gonna blow up :) |
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| 22:19 |
tango_ |
VanessaE: 8-) |
| 22:19 |
tango_ |
well this is actually giving me an opportunity to debug the placing from below, that I hadn't done yet, so it's better this way |
| 22:21 |
VanessaE |
what's next, a typo in a comment? the horror! |
| 22:21 |
VanessaE |
:) |
| 22:32 |
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| 22:43 |
tango_ |
ah, much better now |
| 22:50 |
tango_ |
OK now checks pass too 8-) |
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| 22:55 |
tango_ |
now I'm thinking that maybe we can just use sneak |
| 22:56 |
tango_ |
instead of aux |
| 22:56 |
tango_ |
it makes sense because we're building perperndicularly, after all |
| 22:56 |
tango_ |
simply with a better rotation choice (I think) |
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tango_ |
ah, the difference is that if we take over the sneak placement we can't build perpendicularly to other slabs |
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| 23:49 |
specing |
I wonder |
| 23:49 |
specing |
How much RAM is taken up by node data? As in, just the IDs and param2 and other mandatory attributes? |
| 23:50 |
specing |
*on a server, compared to how much RAM is taken by other stuff |
| 23:52 |
VanessaE |
the worst I've ever seen was a few gigs on my biggest servers |
| 23:53 |
VanessaE |
like 7 instances taken together regularly use between 4 and 6 GB |
| 23:53 |
VanessaE |
two instances run Dreambuilder, the others are much slimmer |
| 23:54 |
VanessaE |
sometimes more, depends on mods' usage I guess. memory leaks and like that |
| 23:55 |
VanessaE |
the biggest map database is 65 GB |
