Time Nick Message 00:09 perrier all pumpkins must be made into jack-o'-lanterns unless you want to make pumpkin bread. 00:10 iamweasel replacer tool sets param2 though, so you can place one node with ceiling or screwdriver, set up replacer, and then use it to build identical nodes by attaching to their sides or whatnot 00:14 perrier I haven't used the screwdriver yet. I used the wrench one time. 00:21 hisforever I'm hafing trouble ith billboard mod. I copye the code to botton and add my own picture mane in the right place. but get error mesage. here is the billbord nides.lua. https://pastebin.com/cauh5aH1 00:22 hisforever sorry for typoes 00:23 hisforever nodes. lua 00:26 hisforever I think I'm putting the {-} in the wrong places? 00:31 hisforever here is the error in mt .https://imgur.com/a/jurc7nx 01:40 cheapie !tell hisforever Extra { on line 119 01:40 MinetestBot cheapie: I'll pass that on when hisforever is around 06:03 tango_ iamweasel: in moreblocks it seems slabs don't copy param2 06:03 tango_ so if I set a slab correctly, I cannot just place another next to it to have it come up same asit 06:03 tango_ as it 06:42 systwi tango_, specing: I'm just using minetest_game, single player. I don't have any farming-related mods installed, excluding any Minetest default mods and TenPlus1's `bonemeal' (which oddly enough doesn't grow papyrus when clicked) 06:44 systwi The papyrus is sitting on default:dirt and default:dirt_with_grass, neither grow at all. Both are planted right next to still water. 06:45 systwi I haven't tried other biomes. I need to find the one I got the papyrus from again to try planting it there. 06:47 systwi I'll also try placing some on default:sand and default:silver_sand to see if that works. 06:50 iamweasel systwi: have you tried restarting the server? 06:51 iamweasel i've had (non-reproducible) issues with growing some crop before, they seemed to go away after server restart 06:51 systwi Yes. Since I play it in single player, the server is restarted each time Minetest is exited and reopened. 06:51 iamweasel kk 06:51 iamweasel weird 06:51 systwi Thanks for the suggestion 06:53 iamweasel re bonemeal: it's a great mod, but it only works on a set list of crops, and cactus-like crops (papyrus is one of them) are not supported afaik 06:53 systwi Flowers also don't appear to renew either. The wiki article, while last updated in 2019, doesn't state that flowers can't grow in biomes such as tundra beaches. 06:54 iamweasel i do not believe crops check biomes 06:54 systwi Ah okay, that makes sense. I thought maybe it was supported since using the bonemeal on the papyrus would still use up bonemeal. 06:55 systwi Strangely enough, cotton, wheat and blueberries renew perfectly fine in the same biome. 06:55 systwi Tree saplings as well. 06:56 iamweasel can you do a screenshot of your papyrus patch? 06:56 systwi Sure, I'll send one over in a few minutes. 06:56 iamweasel no rush 06:59 iamweasel yeah the other thing about papyrus, it needs 14 light 06:59 iamweasel or 13 light 06:59 iamweasel very high 07:00 iamweasel underground, needs to have super-glow-glass (14) next to it to advance 07:00 iamweasel even the slightest shadow could ruin it 07:05 tango_ that's true for most crops iirc 07:06 iamweasel lots of them are 12 i think 07:09 systwi https://i.ibb.co/zR4pxpN/Screen-Shot-2020-12-08-at-1-04-53-AM.png 07:10 systwi The two on the left are mud blocks -- the blocks the papyrus were originally growing from when I found them. 07:10 systwi *Right, sorry 07:12 tango_ uh what papyrus is this? 07:12 systwi I was reading up on the lighting too. The sun is 15 I believe, and from what I can tell they get ample lighting. My next step was to try building a glowing block and setting it right next to the papyrus to see how that would do (haven't found every supply yet iirc). 07:12 tango_ is this default:papyrus? never seen it like this 07:12 tango_ no, sun should be sufficient 07:13 systwi Oh, my mistake, it's labelled as "reed". Not sure where it's from. 07:14 systwi I don't know how to check. 07:14 systwi When I originally looked it up, I did type in "reed" which redirected to the papyrus wiki article. 07:14 tango_ systwi: when you point to it it should give you the name 07:15 systwi swaz:reed 07:15 tango_ wut 07:15 systwi lol let me look through my mods again 07:15 tango_ yep you definitely have something else 07:16 systwi I think it's "SwampZ by runs" 07:16 systwi I looked up swaz and that one is installed. 07:17 systwi My mistake, sorry for the confusion :-S 07:17 tango_ oh then the growing conditions are probably different 07:18 systwi That would explain it 07:18 tango_ I guess this is it: https://content.minetest.net/packages/runs/swaz/ 07:19 systwi Yep, that's it. 07:19 tango_ this is the code https://github.com/runsy/swaz/blob/master/init.lua 07:20 tango_ it doesn't seem like it can be planted though? 07:22 systwi Huh, I guess not. I have a rough idea as to what I'm looking at, but I don't know Lua. 07:23 systwi Well thanks anyway to everyone who helped. Just another PEBKAC error hahaha. 07:27 tango_ systwi: for there to be a growing action the mod should have somewhere a register_abm 07:28 tango_ systwi: see e.g. https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/functions.lua#L224 and https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/functions.lua#L266 07:28 tango_ (for the way papyrus is handled in MTG) 07:29 tango_ the swaz mod has only one source file and there doesn't seem to be anything about growing (no abms at all) 07:29 tango_ I mean you could open an issue ;-) 07:36 systwi Thanks for the info. I would open an issue but my GitHub account is locked because I created it while using a VPN (still trying to resolve that problem). 07:44 iamweasel systwi: this ain't papyrus i guess :) 08:32 Mia12 Is there a way to override the default place behavior? I'm trying to make it so when I place a specific block it instead places it in a fixed distance away from the initial place pos 08:39 Mia12 Is it just a simple as defining a new on_place function? does that replace the original on_place functionality? 09:12 sfan5 you can override minetest.item_place 09:16 Mia12 on a item by item basis? 09:18 sfan5 no that would be on_place 09:18 sfan5 minetest.item_place is a global function 09:18 sfan5 sounds like you actually want on_place though 09:19 Mia12 gotcha 09:46 tango_ anyway, the real issue with slabs etc is that they occupy a whole block even if they are only half a block tall 09:46 tango_ but I can see why it'd be nearly impossible to handle them any other way 09:47 tango_ I mean, one-block blocks above it could be dropped by half a block visually and for interactions, but other half-blocks would completely mess things up 09:50 iamweasel yeah, at least it makes sense. sometimes you would not want the to drop :) like if you want to make a "window" by replacing a solid block in a wall with a slab 09:50 iamweasel it's an architectural challenge for sure though... 09:57 Mia12 Where can I find the default on_place? 09:58 sfan5 minetest.item_place 09:59 Mia12 Like in the source code 10:00 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/game/item.lua#L419 10:01 Mia12 Thanks! 13:32 tango_ Calinou: no clear super glowing glass? 8-D 13:32 tango_ or super glowing clear glass, not sure what the grammar rules for english are here 13:34 Calinou I suppose that could be added, not sure what the crafting recipe would be 13:34 Calinou (there would probably be 2 different ways to craft it) 13:34 Calinou if not 3 :P 13:36 tango_ Calinou: torches over clear glass, just like (super) glowing glass? 13:36 tango_ or sweeper over super glow, sure 13:36 tango_ “why not both” 13:37 tango_ the empty vs full bookshelf I find pretty annoying. we need some way to change the texture of a container depending on what/if it has things inside 13:37 Calinou feel free to open a pull request :) 13:37 tango_ Calinou: sure 13:38 tango_ Calinou: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks this the official repo? 13:38 Calinou yep 13:39 tango_ btw concerning the placement of slabs and stairs, I think the code from the “fixes" mod is actually just the MTG one (re: licensing) 13:40 Calinou ah, I guess you can open a PR for it too then 13:40 Calinou (separately) 13:42 tango_ of course 13:46 tango_ Calinou: do you prefer clean glow glass or glow clean glass? 13:46 tango_ term-wise 13:46 Calinou Clean Glow Glass and Clean Super Glow Glass sound better to me 13:47 tango_ OK 13:50 tango_ oh boy all these combos ... 13:50 tango_ I wonder I should make a lua function to create the “clean" alternatives for everything 13:51 tango_ (it's missing e.g. also for traps etc) 13:51 tluna_ is wiki closed to editing by strangers forever? 13:58 Calinou tluna_: no, but you need to request an account to edit it 13:58 Calinou PM me your email address and desired username :) 13:58 Calinou (/query Calinou) 14:30 tango_ Calinou: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/pull/159 8-) 14:30 Calinou ah, I see you used colorize to avoid adding any textures 14:31 Calinou probably a good move so that third-party texture packs don't need to be updated 14:31 tango_ Calinou: I mean, I just followed what was already there 8-) 14:31 Calinou could you edit CHANGELOG.md in your PR as well? 14:31 tango_ I think most of those defines could probably be scripted 14:31 tango_ Calinou: sure 14:32 tango_ Calinou: force-pushed 14:33 tango_ now for the placement thing the big issue is that the MTG way loses the possibility to place slabs vertically, IIRC 14:33 tango_ I wonder if there's some way to have both 14:34 Calinou yeah, that's quite bad 14:34 Calinou maybe when holding Shfit only? 14:34 tango_ but shift does the alternative already 14:34 tango_ (vertical if horizontal, horizontal if vertical) 14:34 tango_ we need more modifiers 14:34 tango_ ctrl+shift+alt+win+double-click while squinting 14:35 Calinou heh 14:35 Calinou reminds me of an easter egg in WxWidgets 14:35 tango_ actually just copying param2 would be a HUGE step forward 14:35 Calinou in any wxWidgets app, do an Ctrl + Alt + Middle click 14:35 tango_ I could maybe implement that 14:35 Calinou (you'll get an about dialog) 14:36 tango_ wasn't that shift? 14:36 tango_ maybe it was alt 14:36 tango_ anywa 14:36 tango_ do we support alt+click things? 14:36 Calinou nope 14:36 tango_ alt would make sense since it's an ALTernate placement strategy ... 14:37 Calinou also a bad idea because most Linux window managers will intercept it by default 14:37 tango_ I never understood why the sneak key was used for alt action 14:37 tango_ oh 14:37 Calinou it's because it's sent to the server :P 14:37 Calinou it would be good if we had 3-4 hardcoded special keys already 14:37 Calinou we only have 1 right now (fast mode) 14:37 tango_ what's fast mode? 14:38 tango_ oh sneak vs no sneak 14:38 Calinou no, that's different 14:38 Calinou special1 is bound to E by default 14:38 Calinou if fast mode is enabled, you will move faster while holding it 14:38 tango_ ah 14:39 tango_ can on_place detect e being pressed? 14:39 tango_ we could abuse it for the alt placement 14:40 tango_ aha! but wait, maybe we have a solution 14:41 tango_ so the idea is that to place things in the upper half of the block you want to do the placement while pointing at the upper half of the face of the block 14:41 tango_ while doing a horizontal placement 14:42 tango_ SO, we could do that with shift we do the “perpendicular” placement with the correct up-down (or left/rigt) orientation 14:42 tango_ while simple click follows the same approach as the current one 14:43 tango_ a simpler approach would be to allow creation of a frigging wooden screwdriver instead of requiring iron 14:45 tango_ (but still, when placing several slabs, just copying param2 would be enough 16:20 tango_ Calinou: I just discovered compressed blocks in moreblocks. would you accept a patch that allowed gravel to be compressed into cobblestone? 16:20 tango_ (and why not, also the reverse: expand a cobblestone into 9 gravels) 16:22 MTDiscord <09w​war> So a block that is even cheaper than cobble 16:27 rubenwardy I always thought this is weird. Digging stone things with a pickaxe should give you gravel, which then compresses into cobblestone like said 16:30 tango_ rubenwardy: RIGHT? 16:30 specing tango_: gravel -> cobble is unnecessary, because of cobblegens 16:30 tango_ rubenwardy: not even though, cobbles could be naturally occurring e.g. in riverbeds 16:30 specing I agree here 16:30 specing and also with rubenwardy 16:31 tango_ but then you wouldln't know if it was cobbles or a dungeon cobblestone 16:31 specing also, if you want nice riverbeds, check out ocean cobble 16:31 tango_ specing: the point of grave-> cobble isn't to produce cobble, it's to get rid of gravel 16:31 tango_ specing: this is in the framework of moreblocks' compressed stuff blocks 16:32 Calinou tango_: that doesn't really make sense to me, also don't we already have tar as compressed gravel? 16:32 Calinou (which is a nice block for roads) 16:32 tango_ compressing gravel gives you cobblestone, since the geological distinction between gravel and cobbles is lithification 16:32 tango_ Calinou: hm let me check 16:32 specing tango_: you want to get rid of gravel? Thrash it 16:32 tango_ I'm still a bit unfamiliar with all the moreblocks details 16:33 tango_ specing: I prefer recycling 8-D 16:33 specing tango_: or install techpack and use gravel sieves 16:33 tango_ Calinou: tar is made by cooking pine 16:34 Calinou oh, that changed? 16:34 tango_ if I'm reading the code correctly 16:34 tango_ Calinou: e6b5336bad80395c90e2aefa9ded9ac0b59f01dc 16:35 tango_ apparently to solve conflicts with other mods 16:36 Calinou I see 16:36 Calinou so I suppose it's not a good idea to add a gravel recipe in moreblocks then 16:37 tango_ Calinou: but it was a cooking recipe 16:37 Calinou right 16:37 tango_ I was thinking about a simple crafting, like for compressed dirt 16:38 tango_ I don't know if there are 9-gravel recipes in other mods though 16:38 tango_ anyway, I should probably look into the placement thing first 17:29 tango_ damn, default doesn't expose rotate_and_place 17:39 MTDiscord <09w​war> If u gonna make cobble occur naturally, make a better texture this one will show like grief 17:56 specing I recommend using ocean cobble 17:56 specing instead of cobble for river/ocean flooring 17:58 MTDiscord <11J​onathon> ocean cobble from what mod/game? 18:00 specing I don't know, the person on whose server I found it, doesen't publish a repo list 18:01 tango_ OK I need to understand better the difference between under and above for pointed_thing 18:01 tango_ under I assume is the pos of the node I'm pointing at 18:01 tango_ but above? 18:01 MTDiscord <11J​onathon> specing: /mods or serverlist? 18:01 MTDiscord <11J​onathon> and f5 to get maybe the modname? 18:02 specing It's "Your land" and the server list has no list of mods right now 18:02 specing bugged to hell 18:02 MTDiscord <11J​onathon> oh, that place, i believe i know where there mod list is, give me a sec 18:03 tango_ xocean possibly 18:03 specing xocean:ocean_cobble 18:03 specing yes 18:04 MTDiscord <11J​onathon> ah, nevermind then 18:05 MTDiscord <11J​onathon> and ty 18:29 tango_ ah under = pos that would be dug vs above = pos where would be placed 18:33 specing tango_: I view it as defining a face which is being dug/placed 18:33 tango_ specing: yeah just got it 18:33 tango_ I'll propose a doc enhancement 19:05 rubenwardy tango_: it's relative to the face you're pointing at. Under is the node behind that face, above is before that face 19:06 rubenwardy So if you're pointing at a wall, under will be the wall node you're pointing at, and above will be the air node before it 19:13 tango_ rubenwardy: yes, but I was trying to build a better mental concept based on the logic behind the rotate_and_place function 19:14 tango_ to understand the logic behind the choice of facedir 19:14 rubenwardy Well, that's exactly how it works 19:15 rubenwardy Another way to think about it is in terms of a ray - a 3d line 19:15 rubenwardy Under is after collision, above is before 19:16 VanessaE ^ unless the pointed thing is buildable_to 19:16 rubenwardy Does that actually effect pointed thing? It shouldn't 19:17 VanessaE well, there was a time when .under and .above would behave differently 19:18 VanessaE I think at the time, the pointed thing would be .above and the node behind it would be .under 19:18 VanessaE as if the buildable_to thing wasn't there at all 19:18 VanessaE that's tripped me up a few times in the past 19:19 VanessaE but maybe I'm wrong or just forgot. 19:32 tango_ rubenwardy: I would use before/after rather than under/above, for the ray 19:32 tango_ re. buildable_to, I do see some checks about that here and there 19:32 tango_ don't know if they are leftovers from a different time or intentional still though 19:34 rubenwardy before/after make more sense as names 19:38 tango_ that being said, I still don't understand the logic behind rotate_and_place 19:38 VanessaE neither do I anymore, and I wrote it :) 19:39 VanessaE (then ShadowNinja reworked a good portion of it) 19:39 iamweasel if you do it alot, it starts making sense on a viceral level :) 19:39 VanessaE my original intent was simply to detect floor, ceiling, or wall 19:41 tango_ it does more than that though, and I like that second part: it does wall vs ceiling based on which half of the under node is being pointed at, except that it does it using the above dir to faceidr 19:41 tango_ I mean, it works, obviously, but I'm thoroughly confused 19:41 tango_ hm well except it never does vertical alignment for me, which I guess would be a problem, but there might be other effects at play there 19:48 VanessaE *shrug* it was written at a time when all we had to go on were your look yaw and pitch 19:51 tango_ ok so I'd be better off thinking about how to do it with the modern API 19:51 VanessaE yeah 19:51 VanessaE might be time to rewrite it again :) 20:20 * specing unlocked achievement: getting dump() from builting to crash 20:20 specing builtin* 20:33 MinetestBot hisforever: Dec-08 01:40 UTC Extra { on line 119 20:37 hisforever Hi I'm totally lost :(. Here is my debug page, https://pastebin.com/9bg7SStg . I know hothing about code. I have to much to start new please Help? 20:41 specing 2020-12-08 21:40:27: ERROR[Main]: ModError: Runtime error from mod 'testing' in callback on_item_use(): *builtin*:common/misc_helpers.lua:128: attempt to call global 'getmetatable' (a nil value) 20:41 specing what the... 20:41 luk3yx specing: Are you running dump() from a CSM? 20:42 specing Yes luk3yx 20:42 specing It used to work... 20:42 luk3yx I'm guessing no-one has tested dump() in CSMs 20:42 luk3yx CSMs block getmetatable for security (presumably) 20:42 specing Lua refman says getmetatable is in debug.getmetatable 20:45 hisforever may I stepin please what is CSM? 20:45 MTDiscord <11J​onathon> client side mod 20:45 hisforever thanks 20:46 hisforever I omly play on my machine 20:52 hisforever I upgraded Dreambuilders today and everything went belly up lol 20:54 specing luk3yx: ah yes, clientmods/preview/init.lua also has multiple calls to dump, so I guess it is adequately tested 20:57 specing But I guess it was never dumping userdata, perhaps the bug is in dump() 20:57 * specing tests 21:02 Krock there's an open issue about that 21:02 Krock either for dump or serialize(), not sure. 21:08 hisforever here is a image of the error https://imgur.com/a/Ag3AGtq 21:14 specing luk3yx: you are correct, debug.getmetatable is disabled from CSMs. However, dump() from builtin still calls it even when invoked from CSMs. 21:15 VanessaE hisforever: you have too many mods installed 21:15 VanessaE probably something you added outside of dreambuilder which hooks into Moreblocks/stairsplus 21:20 hisforever VanessaE: thanks I'll see what I just installed :) 21:20 MinetestBot 02[git] 04auouymous -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Don't replace protected liquids with bones (#2790) 137ae983b https://git.io/JIEDt (152020-12-08T21:20:16Z) 21:21 Krock *too many enabled 21:23 VanessaE Krock: yeah. 21:24 VanessaE MT needs a higher limit 21:24 VanessaE I knew sooner or later someone was gonna hit the 32k limit :) 21:26 Krock *intentionally not replying directly because it would be a long discussion* 21:26 VanessaE chickenshit ;) 21:27 Krock eww 21:27 VanessaE ok, s/shit// 21:27 VanessaE just chicken then :) 21:28 specing VanessaE: I thought that said limit was already hit multiple times? 21:28 Krock ? 21:28 VanessaE specing: well it has been yeah 21:28 specing When crops have _1 .. _8 for growth and there being stairs and microblocks for dozens of nodes... 21:29 VanessaE yup 21:29 VanessaE imagine how bad it would have been had hardware coloring not become a thing :) 21:30 VanessaE to say nothing of how limiting it was having the original limit of...what was it, 4k nodes? :P 21:30 MTDiscord <11J​onathon> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6101 21:31 VanessaE yeah I was thinking of just that, too 21:32 VanessaE but now I'm not sure keeping the limit under 64k will work out, either 21:32 VanessaE I say just add another ID byte :) 21:32 specing yes 21:32 MTDiscord <11J​onathon> could get into the "param3" argument as well 21:32 specing 24bit node id+ 8 bit node change id + 8 bit microblock id 21:32 VanessaE J​onathon yeah 21:33 specing the node change id would be for things like crops (same node different textures) 21:33 VanessaE nah, that's overkill 21:34 VanessaE however, I did propose a while back, having a one-byte field for a texture table 21:34 rubenwardy fields should be byte aligned really 21:34 VanessaE (it would be an index into a table of tiles{} tables) 21:35 rubenwardy however - content_id is already u16, max=65,000. The other half is taken by unknown, which is a bit ridiculous. Could have a sliding border 21:36 rubenwardy I know you know of this 21:36 VanessaE afaik the only reason it's u16 at all is because of fear of making the map database bigger 21:37 VanessaE though if large IDs were stored on a block-by-block basis, the map database would barely change at all 21:37 luk3yx I like that idea 21:38 VanessaE (i.e. why store 6+ bytes per node if all nodes in a block can be done in 4 bytes per) 21:39 rubenwardy there's also in-memory cost 21:39 rubenwardy although, I wonder how much that matters in terms of contiguity 21:39 VanessaE perhaps, but how much RAM are we talking about? 21:39 rubenwardy it's not about RAM 21:39 rubenwardy it's about contiguity 21:40 rubenwardy CPUs have memory caches, it's faster to access tightly packed memory next to each other 21:40 VanessaE oh you meant on that level 21:41 VanessaE to be fair, CPU cache is still RAM ;) 21:44 VanessaE however, even my old-ass Phenom II 6MB of cache in it 21:44 VanessaE (the Phenom I has 2MB) 21:45 VanessaE so is that really even an issue when each mapblock would only be 24kB (if using 6 bytes per node) 21:47 tango_ I've actually been thinking if the block layout should be arranged differently to improve contiguity 21:48 tango_ for examples depending on what is accessed when, it might be convenient to split node info into multiple arrays so that you have contiguity with similar info from different nodes rather than from different info of the same node 21:49 rubenwardy that sounds more like L3 cache, VanessaE 21:50 VanessaE yeah, my bad 21:50 VanessaE that was L3 21:50 rubenwardy L1 cache is 64KB 21:51 VanessaE still, would it REALLY have much of an impact, considering the sheer volume of data you have you chew on during a normal session? 21:54 tango_ OK I think I managed to do alt placement JUST the way I like it 21:54 tango_ I'm going to provide a PR for moreblocks 21:55 tango_ it should also go to MTG IF IT WASN'T DISCONTINUED 21:55 tango_ 8-/ 22:00 rubenwardy this could probably be considered maintenance rather than a new feature 22:00 tango_ https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/pull/160 22:01 tango_ rubenwardy: not with the attitude some of the core devs have wrt to this kind of work, honestly 22:14 tango_ oh unusued variable 22:14 tango_ uff 22:14 VanessaE major fail. the whole thing's gonna blow up :) 22:19 tango_ VanessaE: 8-) 22:19 tango_ well this is actually giving me an opportunity to debug the placing from below, that I hadn't done yet, so it's better this way 22:21 VanessaE what's next, a typo in a comment? the horror! 22:21 VanessaE :) 22:43 tango_ ah, much better now 22:50 tango_ OK now checks pass too 8-) 22:55 tango_ now I'm thinking that maybe we can just use sneak 22:56 tango_ instead of aux 22:56 tango_ it makes sense because we're building perperndicularly, after all 22:56 tango_ simply with a better rotation choice (I think) 22:58 tango_ ah, the difference is that if we take over the sneak placement we can't build perpendicularly to other slabs 23:49 specing I wonder 23:49 specing How much RAM is taken up by node data? As in, just the IDs and param2 and other mandatory attributes? 23:50 specing *on a server, compared to how much RAM is taken by other stuff 23:52 VanessaE the worst I've ever seen was a few gigs on my biggest servers 23:53 VanessaE like 7 instances taken together regularly use between 4 and 6 GB 23:53 VanessaE two instances run Dreambuilder, the others are much slimmer 23:54 VanessaE sometimes more, depends on mods' usage I guess. memory leaks and like that 23:55 VanessaE the biggest map database is 65 GB