| Time |
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| 00:23 |
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| 03:08 |
Noideawhatmedoin |
When it comes to attempting things like LOD, random question, how practical would it be to generate a mesh w/ textures based off a node (comparable to a minecraft chunk) and essetially unload the real node until it's close enough that collision is likely? |
| 05:00 |
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| 05:38 |
SoylentCow |
minetest forum was slow earlier during the day, now down? |
| 05:38 |
SoylentCow |
that thing must be huuuuuuuge |
| 05:44 |
Emerald2 |
When isn't it slow or down? XD |
| 05:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> ^ this |
| 05:50 |
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| 05:54 |
SoylentCow |
ok ok i see i stumbled into a choir chamber... 9MOOOOOOO!!!!!!! |
| 06:00 |
SoylentCow |
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway |
| 06:00 |
SoylentCow |
i resubmitted https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Minetest let's all cross our fingers (cross them!) |
| 06:01 |
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| 06:46 |
luk3yx |
Are there enough sources on that draft? |
| 06:48 |
SoylentCow |
we gonna see, right? there are 2 real good ones, imho |
| 06:48 |
SoylentCow |
from what i understood, the problem was the presense of bad sources, not the absence of good ones |
| 06:48 |
SoylentCow |
though i added the good ones just in case, too |
| 07:20 |
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| 07:26 |
luk3yx |
> A player controls a 3D character known as Sam, which is a recursive acronym for "Sam ain't Minecraft" |
| 07:26 |
luk3yx |
Where did that originate from? I'm mostly curious but it may help to mention it |
| 07:31 |
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| 07:54 |
SoylentCow |
it can be referenced very easily, but it would not be hi fi reference, and we can't have any, for procedural reasons |
| 07:55 |
SoylentCow |
in fact you can find a ref for that and every single fact in history, i removed them all in order to get over the procedural hurdle of meeting the notability review |
| 07:56 |
SoylentCow |
every single mentioned fact is referenced in edit history, i mean |
| 08:00 |
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| 08:22 |
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| 08:43 |
SoylentCow |
but to answer your question, luk3yx, i had it from https://wiki.minetest.net/Player |
| 08:45 |
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| 08:46 |
SoylentCow |
anyway, most importantly, this article can't get out of draft NOT because "citation needed", but because it had many poor refs and no real good ones, and these are very different issues |
| 09:12 |
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| 09:37 |
rubenwardy |
lol, there's no where near enough sources - there's none for gameplay |
| 09:38 |
rubenwardy |
again, you've also removed all the good sources |
| 09:42 |
luk3yx |
How does the German Wikipedia page get away with it? |
| 09:42 |
luk3yx |
Could that page be translated/copied? |
| 09:47 |
rubenwardy |
they have less strict editors |
| 09:49 |
rubenwardy |
making the article worse by removing good citations doesn't make it better. Removing first-party citations is good - they're unreliable |
| 09:49 |
rubenwardy |
also remove uncited content - base content on reliable citations, not on your agenda |
| 10:01 |
rubenwardy |
you quote raw stats with no citations?! |
| 10:03 |
rubenwardy |
this article was better months ago |
| 10:36 |
Follpvosten[m] |
Wuzzy: I'd like to send a patch for mineclone which exposes a kind of "dieplayer event to string" API from mcl_death_messages. I'd basically just move most of the on_dieplayer event handler and expose it like `mcl_death_messages.format(player, reason)` which returns a string (while of course also using that function internally to send death messages to chat). I need this for some bridges to other chat systems I'm |
| 10:36 |
Follpvosten[m] |
working on, where I'd like to also send over death messages. Asking here first because I'd like to know if that's likely for inclusion, and also what you'd like the public API to look like (`.format()` sounds pretty generic, could also be `.death_to_message()` or similar) |
| 10:41 |
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| 10:46 |
rubenwardy |
btw #mineclone2 |
| 10:49 |
Follpvosten[m] |
Oh thanks. Only read the start of the contributing document, not the very end lol. |
| 11:14 |
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| 13:05 |
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| 13:13 |
fattywompus |
Hello, whats the best way to get (or build) the most recent "stable" version like 5.3 or whatever onto an ubuntu server without using snap? I looked at cloning git and building it but github seems to suggest that would end up being the "development test" version |
| 13:18 |
celeron55 |
well that's exactly what you want to do |
| 13:18 |
celeron55 |
then you just download a non-test game into the games directory |
| 13:24 |
sfan5 |
do you only need the server version? |
| 13:24 |
sfan5 |
if so I can suggest this guide https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=311160#p311160 |
| 13:25 |
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| 13:25 |
fattywompus |
Pardon my confusion but only having experienced the windows client (and server launched from that) version 5.2 for example is a seperate entity from 5.3... you're saying if I build the latest dev test version i can then download 5.3 with the dev version? And not need to use snap or build 5.3? |
| 13:26 |
Follpvosten[m] |
Note that there's also a ppa: https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable |
| 13:26 |
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| 13:26 |
Follpvosten[m] |
If I do see this right, that would be a non-snap way to get the latest version on Ubuntu. |
| 13:27 |
Follpvosten[m] |
On Debian I just use backports. |
| 13:28 |
fattywompus |
ah ok a ppa simplifies things quite a bit. I'm also going to go read that post sfan5 linked before I proceed. Thanks |
| 13:28 |
sfan5 |
"devtest" is the game shipped with the engine by default, what you probably want is "mintest_game" or maybe mineclone2 |
| 13:28 |
sfan5 |
that's separate from installing the engine itself |
| 13:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Fleckenstein> Yes, in creative mode xD |
| 13:32 |
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| 13:40 |
fattywompus |
so with that script that sfan5 linked when it asks for version I can just enter "5.3.0" and I'm all set? Or do I need to phrase it like "stable-5.3.0"? |
| 13:41 |
sfan5 |
just 5.3.0 |
| 13:57 |
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| 15:14 |
fattywompus |
so does the portable version created from the script that sfan5 linked create the Debian-minetest user where it can be controlled with systemctl? |
| 15:14 |
sfan5 |
no |
| 15:14 |
sfan5 |
only the debian package does that |
| 15:14 |
sfan5 |
you can however manually create the user and use the same .service file |
| 15:18 |
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| 15:18 |
fattywompus |
and all the log and config and whatnot will stay in my home directory also? Or will it still write stuff to /etc and var/? |
| 15:20 |
sfan5 |
the portable setup will write stuff to the same folder you extract it from |
| 15:39 |
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| 16:12 |
SoylentCow |
i know, rubenwardy, it looks like i removed a lot of sources, but in fact the review takes care of all major aspects of gameplay, while the interview provides all kinds of info about both gameplay & development |
| 16:14 |
SoylentCow |
i was specifically advised to get rid of game wiki refs and things of that nature; i understand the re-review process for notability is rather rigid, and it's an auto-fail if low quality refs pop out |
| 16:16 |
SoylentCow |
please do not be lulled into thinking i am enjoying this, i had to take a multi-month break after the last rejection just to calm thefuck down |
| 16:17 |
SoylentCow |
lol j/k deep inside i am totally enjoying solving this kafkaesque labyrinth :D |
| 16:28 |
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| 16:32 |
specing |
Lol |
| 16:32 |
specing |
In a few years Veloren will probably take over all of minetest's playerbase |
| 16:46 |
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| 17:18 |
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| 17:59 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> Veloren is indeed well made |
| 17:59 |
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| 18:01 |
Follpvosten[m] |
But veloren is very different, isn't it? As in, it's based around being a cubeworld-like voxel RPG |
| 18:01 |
Follpvosten[m] |
I think they have a very different target audience than Minetest |
| 18:02 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> Currently yes |
| 18:05 |
Calinou |
the name "Veloren" reminds me a lot of Valorant. :P |
| 18:06 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> Sounds like a rant |
| 18:08 |
Calinou |
a valuable rant |
| 18:10 |
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| 18:41 |
celeron55 |
btw, i agree with rubenwardy that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Minetest is just bad now, it's full of text based on nothing at all, and some of such text is just plain wrong |
| 18:41 |
celeron55 |
it would be completely appropriate for the wikipedia staff to not approve it |
| 18:42 |
celeron55 |
and i trust them to do so as long as it's bad |
| 18:42 |
celeron55 |
the only thing i can trust wikipedia in is that they won't approve Minetest's article until it's actually good |
| 18:43 |
celeron55 |
so if you think it should exist, then get your act together and write it properly. i can't do that for you |
| 18:44 |
celeron55 |
just delete everything, then list good sources, then write based on the good sources |
| 18:45 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> ... |
| 18:45 |
celeron55 |
and write like you've never heard of MT before |
| 18:45 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> finding "good sources" for everything is tedious |
| 18:45 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> the source code is source enough |
| 18:46 |
rubenwardy |
Then don't make an article on wikipedia |
| 18:46 |
celeron55 |
if there's no source, then you don't write about it |
| 18:47 |
rubenwardy |
If you can't find enough sources to write an article on wikipedia, then Minetest isn't notable enough |
| 18:48 |
rubenwardy |
Minetest is notable enough, you just need to write much less |
| 18:48 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> Or Wikipedia is just not made for presenting video games |
| 18:48 |
celeron55 |
i'm 50% certain you can assemble a list of sources for an MT article and write the article. it won't be a long one |
| 18:49 |
celeron55 |
wikipedia isn't made for persenting anything |
| 18:49 |
celeron55 |
presenting* |
| 18:49 |
luk3yx |
Wouldn't it be rejected if it was too short? |
| 18:49 |
celeron55 |
well that's the other 50% |
| 18:51 |
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| 19:01 |
SoylentCow |
celeron55: if "citation needed" becomes an issue, i will trim the article |
| 19:01 |
SoylentCow |
i am super-open to whatever rewrites, i did OK job on text, i suppose, but of course things can be improved |
| 19:02 |
SoylentCow |
i do think it's rather aacurate, because i didn't make anything up, but rather used sources like minetest wiki and the codebase itself to justify every single fact/notion i put on there |
| 19:02 |
SoylentCow |
but these sources fail the notability review and had to be removed for the article to be moved into mainspace |
| 19:03 |
SoylentCow |
i have a very narrow objective here: get it approved into mainspace, and after that the standards of review will not be as stringent, and all of us can pitch in and improve what's already there |
| 19:04 |
SoylentCow |
one thing i am tired of discussing is how "minetest" is not a "game", this semantic trifle is not relevant at all to my current task, but once the article is live, we can dive into that issue as well :D |
| 19:07 |
SoylentCow |
rubenwardy: minetest is notable enough, there are very many notable sources to draw from, but unfortunately almost all of them are in different language |
| 19:07 |
SoylentCow |
than english |
| 19:07 |
SoylentCow |
but if need be (i ran this by officials in #wikipedia_help_en) we can use them in order to juice up the notability even more |
| 19:08 |
SoylentCow |
sorry, you know what, i am not really here to argue with you people, just letting you know where i am in the process |
| 19:09 |
SoylentCow |
if you wish, i won't bug you anymore with this topic, until we get it off the ground |
| 19:12 |
MTDiscord |
<wwar> Isn't ""minetest"" an engine? ? |
| 19:16 |
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| 19:17 |
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| 19:17 |
Vagabond[m] |
I think it's a worthwhile effort, though perhaps a separate channel can be used for discussion? I have some feedback |
| 19:19 |
Vagabond[m] |
For example: citations for the download numbers would probably be good |
| 19:22 |
celeron55 |
SoylentCow: well, how surprised are you if i tell you "the source code was published on GitHub on November 26, 2010" is wrong? |
| 19:22 |
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| 19:23 |
celeron55 |
you did original research to write that text, and as a result it's wrong |
| 19:23 |
Krock |
OMG |
| 19:23 |
celeron55 |
please just don't do that |
| 19:24 |
Krock |
minetest.sln created on Nov 27 2010 |
| 19:25 |
celeron55 |
if you changed that to 27 it would still be wrong |
| 19:25 |
rubenwardy |
it was hosted on your website then sourceforge to begin with, right? |
| 19:26 |
rubenwardy |
or builds on your website and sourceforge |
| 19:26 |
rubenwardy |
sourceforge was somewhere, the horror |
| 19:26 |
celeron55 |
no, still wrong |
| 19:26 |
rubenwardy |
:O |
| 19:28 |
Krock |
was it published earlier, but you removed the repo? |
| 19:29 |
Krock |
because the sentence exclusively mentions GitHUb |
| 19:29 |
celeron55 |
it may be impossible to write that sentence correctly based on data available today |
| 19:30 |
Krock |
hit&miss +/- a few days |
| 19:30 |
celeron55 |
but as a hint, i will say: |
| 19:30 |
celeron55 |
date of publication doesn't equal date of initial commit |
| 19:30 |
celeron55 |
current hosting of repository doesn't equal original hosting of repository |
| 19:30 |
celeron55 |
current source control tool doesn't equal original source control tool |
| 19:31 |
Krock |
my source control in 2010 was basically copying files from source -> backup (1) (2) Copy of (2) |
| 19:31 |
celeron55 |
you probably can't get this right unless you literally were there back then, and personally i don't remember |
| 19:31 |
Krock |
brb calling Doctor Who |
| 19:31 |
rubenwardy |
https://tenor.com/view/delete-cybermen-dw-doctorwho-exterminate-gif-4902419 |
| 19:32 |
Krock |
*metal noises* |
| 19:32 |
celeron55 |
i do remember, and this will make all that you all said sound ridiculous, that i published minetest's source code originally on bitbucket as a mercurial repository |
| 19:32 |
celeron55 |
it was converted at some point to be a git repository and moved to github |
| 19:32 |
celeron55 |
the date being, who knows |
| 19:33 |
celeron55 |
i don't remember whether the source was originally published on bitbucket or if i made a source package before that |
| 19:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If the bitbucket repo still exists they may have a history of push activity...? |
| 19:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It'd at least help you narrow stuff down, I gues. |
| 19:34 |
celeron55 |
bitbucket removed all their mercurial repositories a while ago |
| 19:34 |
celeron55 |
there's literally no trace of it |
| 19:34 |
Krock |
2014 according to the wayback machine. https://web.archive.org/web/20140907044527/https://github.com/minetest/minetest/ |
| 19:35 |
Krock |
and that's off by a few years |
| 19:35 |
rubenwardy |
there's a mention of GH in 2012: https://irc.minetest.net/minetest-dev/2012-11-02/ |
| 19:35 |
celeron55 |
well ok, i think i have a copy of the mercurial repository myself |
| 19:36 |
rubenwardy |
the easiest thing to do is just not mention this |
| 19:36 |
celeron55 |
and irc logs will probably have all this information that i just said probably doesn't exist |
| 19:36 |
celeron55 |
(didn't even remember they go so far back) |
| 19:36 |
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| 19:37 |
celeron55 |
anyway, as i said, stop writing things without sources |
| 19:37 |
Krock |
rubenwardy: the final slash kills the link somehow |
| 19:37 |
celeron55 |
on wikipedia |
| 19:37 |
rubenwardy |
oh weird |
| 19:37 |
rubenwardy |
I removed the `text` |
| 19:37 |
Krock |
wikipedia won't ever accept the English page anyway |
| 19:40 |
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| 19:44 |
SoylentCow |
celeron55: are you perttu? let's fix this thing :) there are some other statements there which are based on info from this very chan, we can lose them as well |
| 19:45 |
SoylentCow |
in particular, i will get rid of nov 26 |
| 19:45 |
SoylentCow |
and other stuff that is hard to verify and/or wrong |
| 19:45 |
Krock |
he's an impostor! he secretly back-stabbed celer- err- perttu in 2012 to take over his role |
| 19:45 |
SoylentCow |
sure sounds like it &_& |
| 19:46 |
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| 19:54 |
SoylentCow |
"The source code was published on GitHub in late 2010, and the license terms changed to GPLv2 soon after that." |
| 19:54 |
SoylentCow |
shazam :D |
| 19:57 |
celeron55 |
... |
| 19:58 |
celeron55 |
can i request you to find someone else to do this wikipedia thing? i don't know if it's incompetence or bad habits but you're doing it so wrong it's bad for us |
| 19:58 |
celeron55 |
sorry |
| 19:59 |
SoylentCow |
no, i can't, the only reason i am doing this is because for many years (!) now no one else would |
| 19:59 |
SoylentCow |
but i am totally gonna stop bother this channel over this |
| 19:59 |
celeron55 |
well ok, then i'll just say that you still got it wrong |
| 19:59 |
celeron55 |
MT wasn't published on github in 2010 |
| 20:00 |
rubenwardy |
there have been other recent people working on this, it's just that dancing with wikipedia editors is painful |
| 20:00 |
SoylentCow |
i'll ax this whole sentence right now, and i'll stop bugging you people |
| 20:02 |
SoylentCow |
one last thing: all of yall please feel welcome to get in touch with me in private (or on wiki) with criticsms, suggestions, etc |
| 20:03 |
SoylentCow |
i would like the final result to be factually accurate, well-written, and well-referenced, and i am not perfect at this, but i do try my best :D |
| 20:10 |
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| 21:03 |
MTDiscord |
<IhrFussel> Why can't you simply TELL the year it was published instead of complaining about wrong years only? |
| 21:04 |
celeron55 |
because i don't have a source for it, and as such it's useless for wikipedia |
| 21:06 |
* SoylentCow |
turns a new 4leaf and starts chewing on it thoughtfully |
| 21:06 |
SoylentCow |
dang it, meant it to be 9green |
| 21:09 |
MTDiscord |
<IhrFussel> The original creator's mouth does not count as source? What? |
| 21:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I suspect they'd rather have a published source, i.e. that they directly verify, and link to. |
| 21:16 |
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| 21:29 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> The Wikipedia page actually looked fine like a year ago, but it was knocked for notability because the sources weren't very reliable. Now the page is garbage and myself and the other major editor have given up trying on it. |
| 21:33 |
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| 21:48 |
celeron55 |
GreenXenith: if you can be bothered, try to get the good one from the history or somewhere and save it somewhere to wait for better times |
| 21:52 |
SoylentCow |
celeron55 is absolutely right: if we can get it approved at all, in any state at all, then your hands will be untied to re-introduce just about anything from before, or even do a near-full rewrite, and saving last good (your pov) state in your sandbox is a great idea |
| 22:49 |
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| 22:53 |
specing |
Does anyone have a patch that makes Minetest remember server/CSM/command history? |
| 22:53 |
specing |
(and that would allow me to scroll up into it) |
| 22:54 |
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| 23:15 |
* SoylentCow |
listening to http://tehightime.net/media/marvin-gaye-t-plays-it-cool.mp3 |
| 23:20 |
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| 23:51 |
Soni |
idea: minetest + wasm2kotlin = minetest, java edition |
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