| Time |
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Message |
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MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Hah, imagine Discord being a single entity with multiple personalites. |
| 02:14 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> That would be a weird person |
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MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> There are discords with over 10000 people in them. I don't think a person could fit that many personalities. I mean, you'd need to have a governing council that publishes meeting minutes to handle that many personalities... |
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| 13:22 |
LPKI_Ramen |
Hello, please give me link to official Minetest discord server) |
| 13:23 |
sfan5 |
there's no official one |
| 13:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The one that's bridged here is probably the Least Unofficial one. |
| 13:25 |
sfan5 |
..which would be https://discord.gg/6W84ytH |
| 13:26 |
LPKI_Ramen |
thank you) |
| 13:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I didn't know if there was a policy about posting the link in IRC. |
| 13:28 |
LPKI_Ramen |
Lol server name just Minetest Unofficial)) |
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MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Lol |
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| 17:18 |
bootlegbilly |
Hi everyone |
| 17:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Hello |
| 17:26 |
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| 17:26 |
bootlegbilly |
How is everyone? |
| 17:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> disappointed with things on my end, but nonetheless i'm doing fine |
| 17:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> me_irl |
| 17:35 |
bootlegbilly |
Jaja, life's that way |
| 17:35 |
bootlegbilly |
Oh that's interesting, so the Discord and the IRC server are the same |
| 17:35 |
bootlegbilly |
That's very clever |
| 17:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> > me_irl me_irl and me_on_the_net |
| 17:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Yes, this irc bot can get chat from the unofficial minetest discord server |
| 17:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> its a webhook |
| 17:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> altho there is other channels here not connected to irc |
| 17:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> So irc won't have to deal with some shenanigains from here |
| 17:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> basically |
| 17:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> or vice versa |
| 17:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> bootlegbilly, this is how it looks like on our end if you're curious to know |
| 17:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/760194504128462868/Screenshot_20200928-134048_Discord.jpg |
| 17:41 |
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| 17:42 |
bootlegbilly |
Oh neat |
| 17:42 |
Krock |
Genshin: your battery is low. consider charging it soon again |
| 17:42 |
bootlegbilly |
Do any of you know anything about what's up with mineclone2? |
| 17:42 |
bootlegbilly |
I can't seem to access the git repo |
| 17:42 |
Krock |
the whole git server is down |
| 17:43 |
Krock |
mesehub, that's it |
| 17:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Krock: yep, going to charge this, lol |
| 17:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Im on both PC and mobile cause testing reasons |
| 17:43 |
Krock |
bootlegbilly: perhaps here are a few new commits: http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/src/MineClone2.git/ (posted yesterday) - but let's see what Wuzzy will do |
| 17:44 |
bootlegbilly |
What is mesehub? |
| 17:44 |
Krock |
whether to wait or move to another service |
| 17:44 |
Krock |
https://git.minetest.land/ |
| 17:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Github but for minetest mods only |
| 17:44 |
Krock |
used to be a Gitea server, but it's down without any further information in the forums |
| 17:44 |
bootlegbilly |
Oh huh |
| 17:44 |
bootlegbilly |
Why not move to Github? |
| 17:45 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Also mineclone 2, pull requests are disabled |
| 17:45 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> :trollface: |
| 17:45 |
Krock |
IIRC it was created after MS bought GitHub, as an alternative for more librety |
| 17:46 |
Krock |
but apparently on cost of reliability |
| 17:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> Well the liberties of GH never changed tho |
| 17:46 |
Krock |
it's the mindset that changed, though. |
| 17:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> I mean Actions is a cool use of Azure |
| 17:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> mfw MS turned github into a linked in but for programmers |
| 17:47 |
bootlegbilly |
Eh honestly I don't mind the change much |
| 17:47 |
bootlegbilly |
I'm happy that private repos are free now for example |
| 17:47 |
bootlegbilly |
But yea MS owning everything is kind of a bummer |
| 17:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> Honestly I treat GH as a tool not a person thats going to ruin everything :^) |
| 17:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Money is power m8 |
| 17:48 |
bootlegbilly |
Wdym Genshin |
| 17:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> MS: "You can buy everything if you have the money for it" *Buys Github and Bethesda" |
| 17:50 |
bootlegbilly |
Oh they bought Bethesda too? |
| 17:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Yep |
| 17:50 |
Krock |
soon Fallout integration in GitHub |
| 17:50 |
bootlegbilly |
Also Krock is there any reason that the git server went down? |
| 17:50 |
bootlegbilly |
Money reasons? |
| 17:50 |
Krock |
login with gamer account |
| 17:50 |
bootlegbilly |
There are alternatives at leas |
| 17:50 |
bootlegbilly |
Like Gitlab |
| 17:50 |
Krock |
bootlegbilly: no one knows |
| 17:50 |
bootlegbilly |
But servers are expensive :( |
| 17:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Fallout will become xbox/windows exclusive |
| 17:51 |
bootlegbilly |
So what are they planning on doing atm Krock |
| 17:51 |
bootlegbilly |
I kinda wanted to help work on development a lil |
| 17:51 |
Krock |
bootlegbilly: could you please consider reading my messages? |
| 17:51 |
Krock |
> but let's see what Wuzzy will do {..} Krock> whether to wait or move to another service |
| 17:51 |
bootlegbilly |
I read that they were considering changing or not |
| 17:51 |
bootlegbilly |
But waiting for what exactly |
| 17:51 |
Krock |
nothing happened yet |
| 17:52 |
Krock |
well, whether the servers will be up soon again, or whether it's a persistent state |
| 17:53 |
bootlegbilly |
Huh alright |
| 17:53 |
bootlegbilly |
Is there any contact info about the people who own the servers? |
| 17:53 |
Krock |
MineCLone2 was actively maintained here previously: https://repo.or.cz/MineClone/MineClone2.git/ so if that server stays down, we might expect commits there again |
| 17:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> wuzzy already reached out |
| 17:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Depends if they leave contact info |
| 17:53 |
Krock |
good to hear. nothing more than that happened, I guess? |
| 17:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> or thats what he said via the forums |
| 17:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> i didn't see anything today |
| 17:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Krock, also I just replied and added further details on the occurence. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10438 |
| 17:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Probably is a issue with 5.0.1 that im not aware of |
| 17:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> > I kinda wanted to help work on development a lil seems best bet is to fork mineclone2 and do your own thing given the past of no prs |
| 17:57 |
Krock |
Genshin: so what about the digging animation of players? does that work? |
| 17:57 |
erlehmann |
in case anyone likes the MNT reform, a friend made a mod to be able to make the computer in minetest! https://github.com/Li0nsDickachu/minetest-mod-mntreform |
| 17:57 |
Krock |
also: node placement and key updates might run async |
| 17:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Krock |
| 17:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/760198821338021898/Screenshot_20200928-135818_Minetest.jpg |
| 17:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Animation is working |
| 17:59 |
Krock |
I mean those from mobile players |
| 17:59 |
Krock |
not watching your own model |
| 17:59 |
Krock |
because that's handled locally |
| 17:59 |
bootlegbilly |
erlehmann told me to use https://github.com/kay27/MineClone2 |
| 17:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Hmm |
| 18:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Going to see it on my point of view while staring at mobile_user on PC |
| 18:00 |
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| 18:00 |
Krock |
Genshin: a globalstep callback would also be more accurate to find out whether something changed. node placement might be too tightly timed |
| 18:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> So could it be a delay thing? |
| 18:00 |
erlehmann |
bootlegbilly, please don't tell ppl i tell them to use microsoft github :P |
| 18:01 |
erlehmann |
bootlegbilly, because MS github is shit (disclaimer: they hellbanned me once for no reason, took it back after i noticed and i never used github again for my projects) |
| 18:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Krock. They seem to not be animating on my screen over on PC |
| 18:02 |
Krock |
Genshin: I'd bet on that |
| 18:02 |
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| 18:02 |
Krock |
hmm |
| 18:03 |
Krock |
the last significant change into this direction was #7924 |
| 18:03 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7924 -- Allow binding dig, place actions to keys; remove LMB/RMB hardcoding by ClobberXD |
| 18:04 |
Krock |
i.e. client version dependant |
| 18:04 |
bootlegbilly |
Holy shit erlehmann, did they say why? |
| 18:04 |
bootlegbilly |
Iǘe honestly never had issues |
| 18:04 |
bootlegbilly |
I've* |
| 18:05 |
erlehmann |
bootlegbilly, no of course not, they only told me they would flag my account so automated processes did not hellban it again |
| 18:05 |
erlehmann |
but it was bad because i was working on some customer project |
| 18:05 |
erlehmann |
and the customer could suddenly not see any of my stuff |
| 18:05 |
erlehmann |
so i use my own server now |
| 18:06 |
Krock |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/7924/files#diff-b5b39c3a29359759ac6f0293dc37a453R277 |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
what the hell |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
this should be joystick.getWasKeyDown(KeyType::MOUSE_L) |
| 18:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> @wsor was mobile_user animation on your end? |
| 18:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> Commit revert in 10, 9, ... |
| 18:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> lmao |
| 18:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> so, confirmed bug yet? |
| 18:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> uh, idk, I only saw you open and shut a door, sorry |
| 18:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> i can rejoin and stream here |
| 18:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> but did you seen walk animations, or punching animations? |
| 18:11 |
Krock |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/client/game.cpp#L2492-L2493 though this should work just fine |
| 18:11 |
Krock |
the function I linked previously is not used that often |
| 18:12 |
erlehmann |
bootlegbilly Krock i asked wuzzy to upload all their stuff to the old repo and they just did https://repo.or.cz/MineClone/MineClone2.git/ |
| 18:12 |
Krock |
hence just a minor bug which is yet undiscovered |
| 18:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> i saw your arm move, so punch animation |
| 18:12 |
Krock |
erlehmann: cool |
| 18:12 |
Krock |
erlehmann: I had that as my git remote until a few months ago when I learned that it's outdated for years :3 |
| 18:13 |
erlehmann |
Krock, well now it's back |
| 18:13 |
erlehmann |
back again |
| 18:13 |
erlehmann |
wuzzy's back |
| 18:13 |
erlehmann |
tell a friend |
| 18:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> try rejoininig and stream it |
| 18:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> @wsor |
| 18:13 |
erlehmann |
guess who's back guess who's back guess who's back |
| 18:13 |
erlehmann |
NA NANA NANANANANA |
| 18:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> good grief |
| 18:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> and ok geshen |
| 18:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> and ok geshen |
| 18:15 |
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| 18:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> @/g/ in the house |
| 18:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> okay |
| 18:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> type /spawn |
| 18:17 |
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| 18:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> that was 5.3.0 btw |
| 18:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> if it maters |
| 18:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Krock, animation confirmed on 5.3.0 client. however could be like you've said. might be a delayed thing |
| 18:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> i wasn't seeing much animation on 5.1.0-dev |
| 18:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> i have 5.0.1, 5.1.1, 5.2.0 if you want to watch those as well |
| 18:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> tyr 5.0.1 |
| 18:27 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Krock, viewing at 5.0.1. animations were a bit broken for mobile users |
| 18:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> they get stuck at times |
| 18:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> in a single animation |
| 18:28 |
Krock |
as long the punch animation appears it's fine |
| 18:28 |
Krock |
animation issues is a different topic |
| 18:29 |
Krock |
...also one that I'd prefer to not dig into too deep |
| 18:29 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> anyways, you good now geshen? |
| 18:29 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> > ...also one that I'd prefer to not dig into too deep That's understandable |
| 18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> yeah, im good now |
| 18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> ok ? going to go tinker with inv |
| 18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> going to try Krock's method in getting the input |
| 18:32 |
|
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| 18:34 |
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| 18:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Still getting the same output |
| 18:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/760208830952636477/Screenshot_20200928-143803_Minetest.jpg |
| 18:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Wait, pc is getting the same output, but then returns true after keeping it on hold |
| 18:40 |
Krock |
timing issues. |
| 18:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Trying on mobile now |
| 18:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Since mobile can't hold, they arent having any luck |
| 18:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/760209803233591357/Screenshot_20200928-144142_Minetest.jpg |
| 18:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Yep, timing issue |
| 18:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> This is the output while on PC |
| 18:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/760210381356007474/Screenshot_at_2020-09-28_14-44-17.png |
| 18:48 |
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| 18:51 |
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| 18:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> going to test this with punch |
| 18:58 |
bootlegbilly |
Hey guys |
| 18:58 |
bootlegbilly |
I found a wayback copy of all the issues |
| 18:58 |
bootlegbilly |
It's annyoing and slow but I could write a scraper to save them all |
| 18:58 |
bootlegbilly |
https://web.archive.org/web/20200822050137/https://git.minetest.land/Wuzzy/MineClone2/issues |
| 18:58 |
bootlegbilly |
It's from august 22 of this year |
| 19:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Krock, yep still leads to timing issues |
| 19:13 |
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| 19:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> wrote down evidence https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10438 |
| 19:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> hopefully there's a fix to this |
| 19:21 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> if not, i understand |
| 19:21 |
Krock |
the fix is to assume that place/RMB is pressed when on_placenode is called |
| 19:22 |
Krock |
since key presses are sent in the same packet as player movements which are non-reliable and on another channel, I don't think this will be "fixed" soon |
| 19:22 |
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| 19:22 |
Krock |
it also wouldn't work for older clients or older servers |
| 19:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> also i noticed that dragonfire client users when they are performing autoplace are also not returning LMB or RMB inputs |
| 19:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> those end up returning false |
| 19:25 |
Krock |
you could also use the scalar product of the view "angle" and placed node to figure out whether the node is approximately within their view |
| 19:25 |
Krock |
assuming -90° to 90° is enough to cover lag and outdated data |
| 19:26 |
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| 19:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> > it also wouldn't work for older clients or older servers Krock, that's perfectly understandable |
| 19:56 |
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| 20:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> Max amount of lag around the planet is 0.35s |
| 20:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> For even the most basic of broadband networks |
| 20:03 |
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| 20:03 |
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| 20:03 |
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| 20:04 |
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| 20:06 |
Krock |
Jordach: yes sure. if you go over satellites, that's gonna be a multiple |
| 20:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Detecting players not pressing RMB to place nodes doesn't sound like it's worth the trouble to implement as an anti-cheat because it seems like cheat clients would very easily just add the RMB press/release to bypass it. Placing hurdles in front of cheaters is a good thing, but not so much if dragging the hurdles onto the field takes a lot more work for you than clearing them does for them. |
| 20:15 |
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| 20:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Then i guess making detections for autoplace and autodig is out of the question due to inaccuracies |
| 20:16 |
MTDiscord |
<IhrFussel> MT even offers builtin spam right-clicking...you can set the repeat value to 0.01 |
| 20:17 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It's not so much "out of the question" as "you explored the question and the answer is probably no" :-) |
| 20:17 |
erlehmann |
> Detecting players not pressing RMB to place nodes |
| 20:17 |
erlehmann |
wtf |
| 20:17 |
erlehmann |
what about ppl who don't even use a mouse |
| 20:17 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> i.e. I think your investigation made sense so far, it's just going further doesn't look promising now. |
| 20:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> doesn't matter whether you use a mouse or not |
| 20:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> you can use a trackball or a touchscreen or whatever |
| 20:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> MT still sends those control inputs |
| 20:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> though they may send them for extremely short time periods making it impossible to catch in practice |
| 20:19 |
MTDiscord |
<IhrFussel> It's like mobile browser...they translate touches/taps to drag/clicks |
| 20:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If MT ever adds keybindings for digging/placing by keyboard, those will almost certainly either get new control flags, or would be mapped to LMB/RMB anyway. |
| 20:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> > It's not so much "out of the question" as "you explored the question and the answer is probably no" :-) out of the question or no, same thing. currently pointless to make due to flaws and inaccuracies. |
| 20:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Best you could do is something probabilistic, i.e. looking at a player's behavior over the long run, detect if they never have RMB pressed, or look for changes in probability over time. That'd probably be more useful for something like detecting hacked accounts from changes in activity patterns, rather than anti-cheat. After all, they could just make sure to ALWAYS cheat. |
| 20:41 |
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| 20:42 |
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| 20:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> problem with that is that android users are currently sending RMB as false |
| 20:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> No matter how fast they are placing down a node |
| 20:47 |
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| 20:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> when they are digging, LMB is returning true after holding on dig key |
| 20:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> are they sending it as false, or is it simply not possible for you to see it as true because your code never runs during the like 1 microsecond when it's actually true? |
| 20:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> They are sending it as false |
| 20:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> hmm, do they ever send RMB, like when not placing? |
| 20:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Unless they are holding place key, which they can't |
| 20:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> It works perfectly for PC users, but not for mobile users |
| 20:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Huh, wow, there really is no way to hold RMB on mobile. That's ... bizarre |
| 20:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> "works perfectly on PC" at what RTT? |
| 20:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> presumably your anti-cheat mod is probably not going to be very useful for singleplayer |
| 20:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Warr https://discord.com/channels/369122544273588224/369137254641303560/760155312996745236 |
| 20:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> yeah, I saw |
| 20:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> and it was pretty obvious that was what you were doing from your screenshots |
| 20:54 |
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| 20:55 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Actually from my screenshots, i done what krock suggested, getting controls on global step |
| 20:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> It should be possible to get the controls out of order on PC too. It will just be a heisenbug, since it will probably be quite rare, and would probably only happen under specific circumstances. The only time you'll hear about it is some users being mad that they got banned arbitrarily by anti-cheat. |
| 20:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Which is why i scrapped those detections tbh |
| 20:58 |
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| 20:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Thanks to certain false positives due to timing problems |
| 21:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> The rest of the detections passed though |
| 21:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I've found the easiest way to detect cheaters is when they either brag about how they're awesome hackers because they can fly without privs, or when they ask you what your policy is on hacked clients within 5 minutes of first connecting. |
| 21:01 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Made a flight detection ehich so far works, also testing this on my server |
| 21:07 |
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| 21:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Flight depends on vertical velocity scaling |
| 21:08 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Also if their vertical velocity is at 0 while hovering in air |
| 21:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> regarding to automod (autoban/autokick), it has a trigger logic. Also can be enabled or disabled on minetest.conf |
| 21:31 |
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| 21:55 |
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| 22:13 |
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| 22:16 |
Wuzzy |
hey everyone |
| 22:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Hi Wuzzy |
| 22:17 |
Wuzzy |
I wonder how many of you are on Discord right now |
| 22:17 |
Wuzzy |
I'm an IRC person haha |
| 22:18 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> How many are online, or how many are in the server? ;p |
| 22:18 |
Wuzzy |
both |
| 22:18 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> 263 online, 1063 in the server |
| 22:19 |
Wuzzy |
wait, that cant be right... in IRC I only see 184 online |
| 22:19 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> IRC only displays IRC users |
| 22:19 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> this is a bridge |
| 22:19 |
Wuzzy |
yeah right |
| 22:19 |
Wuzzy |
263 users behind MTDiscord |
| 22:20 |
Wuzzy |
it kind of blows my mind |
| 22:20 |
Wuzzy |
at least Minetest does not force anybody on Discord. I am very glad about that |
| 22:20 |
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| 22:21 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Im just glad that we are unified |
| 22:22 |
Wuzzy |
its still a bit ugly technically. IRC no longer shows the real usercount |
| 22:22 |
Wuzzy |
are there commands to query the current discord usercount btw? |
| 22:22 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Yeah, but it works well enough. |
| 22:22 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> There is not |
| 22:22 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> At least, I dont think so. I can implement that in my own bridge. |
| 22:23 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> We are currently using a commonly used bridge just to get things working |
| 22:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> it's not like |
| 22:24 |
Jordach |
two of us can be |
| 22:24 |
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| 22:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> in the same place |
| 22:24 |
Wuzzy |
heh |
| 22:24 |
Wuzzy |
did yo just kill MTDiscord just to make a point? ? |
| 22:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Wuzzy, someone would like an answer to this question. lol |
| 22:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/760265728703725588/Screenshot_20200928-182358_Discord.jpg |
| 22:25 |
Wuzzy |
the answer is "Wuzzy". |
| 22:25 |
Wuzzy |
lol, the link to the question is longer than the question itself.... d'oh! |
| 22:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Lone_Wolf> Coulda probably just copied the message text |
| 22:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Lone_Wolf> Screenshots are nice tho |
| 22:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Screenshots are better, too lazy to type |
| 22:29 |
Wuzzy |
interesting discussion about chat: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=381465 |
| 22:29 |
Jordach |
>tries to dethrone discord |
| 22:29 |
Jordach |
riot, matrix have both failed |
| 22:30 |
Jordach |
https://xkcd.com/927/ |
| 22:31 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> > the answer is "Wuzzy". @Wuzzy IRC#0000 ok |
| 22:32 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> The Discord quote feature should be nuked |
| 22:33 |
Wuzzy |
my issue with Discord is that they are tyrannically controlled by one company. they control everything, the protocol, the platform, the software. everything. |
| 22:33 |
Jordach |
why do you think IRC is still preferred over these javascript bloat holes :^) |
| 22:33 |
Wuzzy |
and the joke is, IRC *was* already the standard. the rest came later |
| 22:34 |
Wuzzy |
I'm not even a huge fan of IRC tbh |
| 22:35 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> wuzzy you are big nerd |
| 22:35 |
Wuzzy |
IRC is not really approachable for newbies. there are some weird terms that normals users should never care about. like "modes"... |
| 22:36 |
Wuzzy |
But maybe this is just a client thing. maybe IRC just needs a new, modern client with a really nice UI. I think there's nothing like that today |
| 22:37 |
Jordach |
because all npm users have a desire to reinvent the wheel, alongside stockholm syndrome for javascript |
| 22:37 |
Jordach |
just ask how GNOME3 is doing with those JS bindings :^) |
| 22:37 |
Li0n |
> But maybe this is just a client thing. maybe IRC just needs a new, modern client with a really nice UI. I think there's nothing like that today |
| 22:37 |
Wuzzy |
wait, why are we talking about npm now? |
| 22:37 |
Li0n |
but then they can't make money off it |
| 22:37 |
Jordach |
nice UI = javascript / electron |
| 22:38 |
Wuzzy |
you dont need bloat for good UI design |
| 22:38 |
Jordach |
if it looks like win32 it isn't nice ui |
| 22:38 |
Li0n |
how will they get rich if they can't restrict features behind a paywall |
| 22:38 |
Jordach |
except discords only restricted feature is quite literally cosmetic :^) |
| 22:38 |
Wuzzy |
this is what bothers me the most. people don't bitch enough about abusive companies, most people accept it, not even complaining |
| 22:39 |
Jordach |
and you wonder why FOSS evangelism isn't working out for you |
| 22:39 |
Jordach |
make things normal people want to use, not what you want to use |
| 22:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> discord's only paywall is cosmetics. anything else is pretty much accessible |
| 22:40 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> i like companies |
| 22:40 |
Jordach |
i pay for the cosmetics to keep the lights on |
| 22:40 |
Jordach |
it also stops those evil ad things |
| 22:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> it's like what, 5 bucks a month? |
| 22:40 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> what ad things |
| 22:41 |
Jordach |
i mean implementation of ads |
| 22:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> no money = ad fest |
| 22:41 |
Wuzzy |
Just like Minetest. |
| 22:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> cough cough Multicraft cough |
| 22:42 |
Wuzzy |
well they have been tolerated for years now, so... |
| 22:42 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> why is everybody coughing now |
| 22:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Sorry MoNTE48 |
| 22:42 |
Wuzzy |
wait Multicraft is now an ad-fest? HAHAHAHAHA |
| 22:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> > why is everybody coughing now COVID-19 |
| 22:43 |
Jordach |
Wuzzy, if it's on a iPhone or Android and the price tag is free |
| 22:43 |
Jordach |
duck and cover |
| 22:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> gotta make money somehow right? |
| 22:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> > adds |
| 22:44 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> > COVID-19 @/g/ its a hoax, didn't you know? /s |
| 22:44 |
Wuzzy |
most MT devs dont make a dime off MT |
| 22:44 |
Wuzzy |
correct me if i am wrong |
| 22:44 |
Jordach |
>ruben's patreon >paramat's paypal donation box |
| 22:44 |
Wuzzy |
oh right, donations. but is it significant? |
| 22:45 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> i heard one of them got one billion dollars from an MIT grant |
| 22:45 |
Jordach |
>Ruben $33/mo |
| 22:45 |
Wuzzy |
wow, i am impressed. thats infinitely more than most other devs ? |
| 22:46 |
Jordach |
i mean i get a cosmetic flex in his CTF server |
| 22:46 |
Wuzzy |
Jordach: well I perfectly understand why usability is important. i understand you can't force people into FOSS (lol). but what frustrates me is when abusive behavior in software is just ... kind of accepted as normal. |
| 22:46 |
Wuzzy |
as if its just the software world is |
| 22:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Lone_Wolf> A better UI won't make me like IRC more |
| 22:47 |
Jordach |
decided by who has the time and money to properly release something that works |
| 22:47 |
Wuzzy |
ok to be fair. that's actually true ? |
| 22:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Lone_Wolf> IRC needs a client that simplifies everything |
| 22:47 |
Jordach |
instead of bitching in a GitHub thread about the implementation |
| 22:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Lone_Wolf> And I'm not sure a client can handle all of the simplifying that would need to be done |
| 22:48 |
Wuzzy |
I think you can abstract a way a lot of unneccessary IRC confusion |
| 22:48 |
Wuzzy |
not everything, sadly, but a lot |
| 22:48 |
Wuzzy |
nobody needs to learn what "modes" are |
| 22:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Lone_Wolf> I had to do some googling simply to figure out how to register an account |
| 22:49 |
Wuzzy |
irc has no real accounts |
| 22:49 |
Wuzzy |
there's NickServ but its server-dependent |
| 22:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Lone_Wolf> Yeah |
| 22:50 |
Wuzzy |
yeah IRC really shows its age for such basic things... |
| 22:50 |
Wuzzy |
theres inherent complexity you cant kill with shiny ui |
| 22:51 |
Jordach |
doubt |
| 22:51 |
Wuzzy |
you believe oyu could kill all ugly complexity with shiny ui? |
| 22:51 |
Wuzzy |
in IRC? |
| 22:51 |
Jordach |
i managed to make the lounge webclient look exactly like Discords default interface with CSS |
| 22:51 |
Jordach |
not hard |
| 22:51 |
Jordach |
time consuming |
| 22:52 |
Wuzzy |
its not only about look-and-feel, its also about the nitty-gritty details (like NickServ) |
| 22:52 |
Jordach |
and that turns off normies |
| 22:52 |
Wuzzy |
TRUUUUUUU |
| 22:52 |
Jordach |
stop thinking as a power user and dev |
| 22:52 |
Jordach |
sounds hard but it's doable |
| 22:53 |
Wuzzy |
i was more talking aobut abstracting away NickServ (if thats even possible) |
| 22:53 |
Wuzzy |
or abstracing away <totally basic but unneccessary complex feature in IRC> in general |
| 22:54 |
Wuzzy |
and yeah, i agree that thinking as a dev is a terrible way to make an UI ? |
| 22:54 |
Wuzzy |
just look at Minetest's main menu ? |
| 22:55 |
Wuzzy |
I wonder why it's stalling... it seems nobody can even agree on what the new UI should look like... hmmmmmm |
| 22:55 |
Wuzzy |
over 100 or 200 comments |
| 23:17 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> is the teleportation glitch fixed in the newest version? |
| 23:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> I like IRC, but it's not meant for normies to use |
| 23:21 |
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| 23:22 |
Wuzzy |
what's the teleportation glitch? |
| 23:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> you mean fast/teleportation glitch when attached to entities? |
| 23:23 |
Wuzzy |
IRC might be better if it just had one client with a nice UI |
| 23:23 |
Wuzzy |
I personally use HexChat and I like it... but I still see that its not really for beginners lol |
| 23:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> > IRC might be better if it just had one client with a nice UI But it will never be, bwahahahah |
| 23:24 |
Wuzzy |
what would YOU expect from a nice UI? just wondering |
| 23:24 |
Wuzzy |
for chat ofc |
| 23:24 |
Wuzzy |
or what annoys you the most in irc? |
| 23:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> > or what annoys you the most in irc? Honestly, nothing. lol |
| 23:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> some people wants fancy UI stuff |
| 23:26 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> ye the entity glitch |
| 23:26 |
MTDiscord |
<oneplustwo> i heard Fleckenstein proposed a fix but she got denied |
| 23:27 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> code must be beautifully done, also views must meet other dev's opinions. or get rejected |
| 23:29 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> the fate of every PR |
| 23:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> > or what annoys you the most in irc? other people also find it "complicated" to log on IRC (AKA, the normies) |
| 23:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> > or what annoys you the most in irc? no logging, and no chat while away |
| 23:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Haha, I mean, it's complicated to "log in" if you want to have a proper account, since the whole account concept is shoehorned in ... but you can literally just go to a webchat client, enter a name and a channel and get right in... |
| 23:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> yea you can fix those with outside things, but thats outside |
| 23:33 |
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| 23:33 |
Genshin |
o/ |
| 23:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> wsor: it doesn't exactly have to be "outside"; it's just not really in common practice for IRC networks to provide those since they assume you'll want to bring your own anyway. |
| 23:34 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Even Discord is basically just a glorified client bundled with a rewrite of XMPP/IRC over HTTP |
| 23:35 |
Genshin |
^ |
| 23:36 |
Genshin |
re-inventing the wheel |
| 23:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> IRC is only more complicated because you're aware of the underlying service as an independent thing. If FreeNode decided to create a product (call it, say, FreeNoob) which connected to the same chatrooms but bundled a somewhat polished client, ordinary users would hardly be able to tell the difference from Discord. |
| 23:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> yeah, i guess, but "or what annoys you the most in irc?" that was what was asked |
| 23:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> so i answered |
| 23:37 |
Genshin |
mwf you can see images without having to click on urls |
| 23:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> IRC is also a standard more than an implementation, so that fact that it doesn't have history logging per-user is actually a convention, but not a strict requirement. It CAN be done, it just isn't done commonly... |
| 23:37 |
Genshin |
^This is true |
| 23:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I was very annoyed by IRC's completely terrible mobile support. Its model of connectivity just doesn't work for devices that are meant to be in sleep mode and unable to maintain an active network connection 99% of the time. |
| 23:38 |
Wuzzy |
wait, so Discord is actually just a rip-off of XMPP? LOL |
| 23:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> My workaround for this was TheLounge client. It's designed for mobile multi-device use, supports native push notifications, etc., but it's a true IRC client that I can self-host. |
| 23:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Discord, Slack, Mattermost, Stride, whatever ... they're all basically just spiritual remakes of XMPP, which arguably was just an overly complicated redo of AIM/ICQ, which were themselves just centralized remakes of IRC... |
| 23:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The decentralization of IRC is actually one of the things that almost none of the remakes/reinventions have done yet, with the exception maybe of Matrix |
| 23:40 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Just the fact alone that AIM/ICQ came after IRC really dates it |
| 23:40 |
Genshin |
it's just LMD re-inventing the weel kind of thing |
| 23:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> haha, IRC was itself I think an extension of an older unix talk protocol |
| 23:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Matrix brings back the true decentralization of IRC. XMPP is "federated" but its chatrooms (which are an extension) still have to live on one particular host, so if that host goes down, the "netsplit" that happens just basically leaves everyone completely isolated. IRC's ability to fail only partially is a pretty cool feature. |
| 23:42 |
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| 23:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I think Matrix is supposed to do all that stuff, but it's several orders of magnitude more complex than IRC, and even more than XMPP... |
| 23:42 |
Wuzzy |
complex to implement or complex to use? |
| 23:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> to implement |
| 23:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If you mean to use a client by "to use" |
| 23:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I mean, it's complex to implement a client that uses the protocol |
| 23:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> but whether the client itself is simple to use depends almost entirely on the client |
| 23:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I tried out Riot.im. It seemed alright. |
| 23:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The fact that I couldn't run my own homeserver for Matrix because I didn't have a powerful enough server even to connect for my own personal use really felt crappy to me though. That felt like a big damper on the decentralization thing, which for Matrix was supposed to be even better than IRC. |
| 23:45 |
Wuzzy |
huh? |
| 23:45 |
Wuzzy |
this surprises me |
| 23:45 |
Wuzzy |
you can't run a server even if it just for 1 user for testing??? wow |
| 23:45 |
riff-IRC |
what are they using, java? |
| 23:45 |
Genshin |
<@737608004761026642> regarding to the glitch, it's still being processed. it wasn |
| 23:46 |
Genshin |
wasn't patched yet |
| 23:46 |
Wuzzy |
what's this long number meaning, Genshin? |
| 23:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Last I saw of Matrix, their "server" component only had what I guess was meant to be a "reference implementation" in Python: it demonstrated the capabilities of the protocol well, and was the "canonical" implementation but it was super inefficient. There were supposedly others but they were "unofficial" and I didn't want to get into aftermarket until I'd gotten familiar with OEM first. |
| 23:46 |
Genshin |
It's just a ping |
| 23:46 |
Genshin |
it's the user's ID |
| 23:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Wuzzy: that long number means that the IRC/Discord bridge is not doing a great job of translating usernames. |
| 23:46 |
Genshin |
same as if i was using Wuzzy to ping you |
| 23:47 |
Wuzzy |
What happens if I say "Warr1024"? |
| 23:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Discord seems to use different formats for mentions/pings and that makes bridges/bots for it a pain to maintain. |
| 23:47 |
Genshin |
it won't ping warr |
| 23:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> if you just say a Discord user's name bare, it gets no special detection. Discord convention is to prefix an @ sign |
| 23:47 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Geez, why is every bridge dropping the ball on snowflake ids lately |
| 23:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> and that depends on whether the bot supports conversion, and whether it's not buggy. |
| 23:48 |
Wuzzy |
well, IRC "pings" are entirely client-side anyway |
| 23:48 |
Genshin |
because they are sensitive, needs more brain power and logic |
| 23:48 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> oh wait no |
| 23:48 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> you pinged from IRC |
| 23:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> > yep |
| 23:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> GX: Discord seems like they must have changed the ID formats, or introduced new kinds of tags or something, but they still use the old formats in certain other contexts? |
| 23:48 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> No no, the bridge is fine |
| 23:48 |
Wuzzy |
it just a convention. users can turn off the beep if your name was said |
| 23:48 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Genshin just doesnt know how to ping people |
| 23:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> that's not always a bad thing :-) |
| 23:49 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> You can ping users using their snowflake ID, but you dont need to |
| 23:49 |
Wuzzy |
is there a setting in discord that makes you beep when your name is said (without any special characters?) |
| 23:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I don't think Discord does stuff like custom keyword notifications or anything... |
| 23:49 |
Wuzzy |
boo! |
| 23:49 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> That would get chaotic rather fast |
| 23:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I mean, it's not exactly as scriptable as people in the IRC world are used to either :-) |
| 23:49 |
Wuzzy |
Now I have a real excuse to never use Discord ? |
| 23:50 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> No you dont x) |
| 23:50 |
Genshin |
all you need is to @<user>#<4 digit number ID> |
| 23:50 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> On the Discord side, yes |
| 23:50 |
Wuzzy |
ok my actual excuse is that I'm a FOSS zealot |
| 23:50 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> that makes more sense |
| 23:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> In the Discord client, to ping someone, you type an @ and then use the autocompletion dropdown. |
| 23:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> ^Easy stuff |
| 23:50 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> With the IRC bridge you can just use @ and someones nick/username and it will figure it out for you |
| 23:50 |
Wuzzy |
but can you get beeped withuot the @? |
| 23:51 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> That would defeat the purpose |
| 23:51 |
Genshin |
@GreenXenith, so is this correct? |
| 23:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> nope |
| 23:51 |
Wuzzy |
i mean is there a client setting or something? |
| 23:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> XD |
| 23:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Yeah, I wouldn't pressure someone to switch from IRC to Discord. I run a Discord for NodeCore but I have IRC bridges for all the important channels there too. |
| 23:51 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> probably doesnt like the comma |
| 23:51 |
Wuzzy |
OMG |
| 23:51 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Wuzzy: The function of pings in Discord is fundamentally different from that of IRC. So no. |
| 23:51 |
Wuzzy |
haha, the comma counts as part of the username? LOL |
| 23:51 |
Genshin |
okay, so... hmm |
| 23:51 |
Genshin |
@GreenXenith |
| 23:51 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Well damn |
| 23:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Hahah |
| 23:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I'm actually on both IRC and Discord, but I stay out of the IRC channels I'm already on Discord for because I don't wanna keep pinging myself :-D |
| 23:52 |
Wuzzy |
What about this?: @GreenZenith: I wrote a colon. |
| 23:52 |
Genshin |
Let's try this just for giggles |
| 23:52 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> The bridge has a feature where it adds a special character to usernames so it wont ping you on the IRC side |
| 23:52 |
Genshin |
@GreenXenith#3232 |
| 23:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> there we go |
| 23:52 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> snowflake id? |
| 23:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> GreenXenith #3232 |
| 23:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Discord pings are actually basically a form of internal markup within the message body, while IRC pings are searching for like /\b${myusername}\b/i in the plaintext. |
| 23:52 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3232 -- Fix vrange min/max adjusting when min exceeds max by kilbith |
| 23:52 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> oh, full id works |
| 23:53 |
Wuzzy |
remember, IRC knows no pings at all. it's just a client side thing that just most IRC clients happen to implement. its not standardized tho |
| 23:53 |
Genshin |
just testing the bot, you can thank me later :P |
| 23:53 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Huh, ok ShadowBot, thankyou for giving me something to test on MinetestBot |
| 23:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> My IRC client annoys me by only allowing me to mute notifications or add extra ones by keyword, but doesn't let me customize this stuff per-channel. |
| 23:54 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Haha, MinetestBot is superior. |
| 23:54 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> It doesnt link github issues if the # is part of a word |
| 23:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> What does MinetestBot's embed stuff even look like on IRC? Do they just see the text part? |
| 23:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> or do you just have it disable din here? |
| 23:54 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Thers a reason I have bots disabled here |
| 23:54 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> theres* |
| 23:55 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Embeds just dont work in plaintext |
| 23:55 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> You can write converters, but they never work well |
| 23:55 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> The only reason I left link embeds on is because those are clientside |
| 23:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> yeah, it's just weird to think of explicitly setting up embeds. The only use of embeds I ever do is the ones that Discord automatically does when you drop specific kinds of links. |
| 23:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> nope |
| 23:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> disregard, lol didn't scrolled down |
| 23:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I guess, since I've had my IRC bridges longer than MTU has, maybe I'm used to thinking differently about them. |
| 23:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Yeah, don't forget that edits and deletions are not a thing in IRC |
| 23:57 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Ive been using an IRC bridge on my server for like 3 years |
| 23:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> already aware |
| 23:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> and the IRC channels tend to be logged so what you really said will still be public :-) |
| 23:58 |
riff-IRC |
kinda like this |
| 23:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> so if someone says something stupid in this channel then deletes it, IRC will always remember |
| 23:59 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> which is a nice addition |
| 23:59 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> yep |
| 23:59 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> It's ElCeejo-proof |
