IRC log for #minetest, 2020-05-29

Time	Nick	Message
00:05	oil_boi	I like option 3 :D
00:06	oil_boi	Though if we had a way to essentially create a new texture with the data from the combined images stored in memory as a single file instead of a giant string it would be pretty much the perfect temp solution
00:10	oil_boi	I can't find a feature request for it, so I guess I will create oen
00:10	oil_boi	one**
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00:20	Bloom	MinetestBot seen longerstaff13
00:20	Bloom	MinetestBot, seen longerstaff13
00:20	Bloom	Hm guess not an cmd
00:30	leo_rockway	oil_boi: I'm watching the armor video. I'm pretty sure if you dig the block where an enemy arrow impacted it still hits you if you stand in front of it.
00:30	oil_boi	Oh it hits you even if you walk into it when it's stuck, I need to modify it to only do it when moving
00:30	leo_rockway	oh, gotcha
00:30	leo_rockway	oh, yeah, I see that in the video.
00:35	oil_boi	I will certainly fix it tomorrow, but for now, I must sleep, see ya!
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01:27	Warr1024	oil_boi: probably the easiest and best overall process would be to open a PR to add a [png:<base64> texture mod. PNG has very good compression for this kind of data, and base64 should be a minimal expansion that would still keep the value "stringy" rather than "binary"...ey
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06:43	Verticen	!tell oil_boi Alpha 0.05 looks great! You're making incredible progress. I know that you've got 22i for models, but if you need another source of models let me know. I don't know balls about programming for Minetest, but I'm pretty much a master of blender. Anyway, keep up the good work
06:43	MinetestBot	Verticen: I'll pass that on when oil_boi is around
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08:08	Miniontoby	hey
08:13	Miniontoby	anyone online???
08:13	Miniontoby	I want to talk
08:14	Miniontoby	I am a webdev and I need an new idea and it can be something for minetest
08:16	Miniontoby	rubenwardy: did you add the translating to the app???
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08:16	imi	hi
08:17	imi	or should I say
08:17	Miniontoby	hey
08:17	imi	Thi
08:17	Miniontoby	I am a webdev and I need an new idea and it can be something for minetest
08:17	Miniontoby	I see it is added
08:17	Miniontoby	thnx rubenwardy
08:22	Miniontoby	How to use an translating in minetestmods4android app from rubenwardy
08:23	Miniontoby	does anyone knows?
08:27	Miniontoby	How to use an translating in minetestmods4android app from rubenwardy?
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08:35	hoodedice	sfan5!
08:35	hoodedice	MinetestBot!
08:35	MinetestBot	hoodedice!
08:35	hoodedice	sfan5 need help with worldedit pls
08:38	hoodedice	what would be a good way to copy paste a particular section of a building in a flipped patter
08:38	hoodedice	pattern
08:39	hoodedice	suppose I have [ as my saved worldedit schematic
08:39	hoodedice	I want a pattern like [ ] [ ] [ ]
08:44	hoodedice	I'm an idiot, if I save the schematic as [ ] that will make my life easier :facepalm:
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09:01	Miniontoby	How to use an translating in minetestmods4android app from rubenwardy?
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09:50	imi	how do I enable client side commands (the "." key)?
09:51	lmat	texmex: I created two beacons one block space between them.
09:51	lmat	texmex: I got a mese crystal and right-clicked one, then with the resulting key, right clicked the other.
09:51	lmat	Now, how do I use it?
09:52	sfan5	imi: you need enable_client_modding = true in your settings and also need to enable the particular client mod
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09:53	texmex	lmat: just stand on it for a few seconds. Again, note that the connections doesn’t become symmetrical automatically. Only if it’s lit up it’s activatwd.
09:53	lmat	Sorry, had a problem with my IRC client and had to exit.
09:53	lmat	texmex: One is red one is blue.
09:53	lmat	I teleported from the blue to the red.
09:53	lmat	it's cool.
09:54	texmex	Everything is in the docs iirc. Red means that there is a connection but the power is insufficient.
09:55	lmat	texmex: Oh, it requires power even if they're connected via mese crystal?
09:55	lmat	drat
09:55	lmat	I moved one of them. They're both still blue on top, but they don't work anymore.
09:57	lmat	I'm wanting a teleporter mod just like this, except that the teleporters only work in pairs and doesn't require power to use ^_^ Know of anything?
09:59	texmex	Then telemosaic is not for you. Check Content DB
10:00	lmat	texmex: okay, thanks. Telemosiac looks very cool for online server play!
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10:04	texmex	lmat: Yeah. I suppose telemosaic can be extended to support this type of behavior but I haven’t got the time.
10:05	lmat	https://github.com/entuland/tpad seems reasonable
10:05	lmat	texmex: Understandable!
10:10	lmat	Oh yeah, this is perfect.
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10:29	imi	sfan5: you are one of the core developers, aren't you?
10:29	sfan5	yes
10:31	imi	sfan5: ok, then check this, I have reached this point: https://pastebin.com/e2m1Jv2R -- core.settings is nil here. do you have any idea how do I fix this?
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10:34	sfan5	I believe CSM doesn't have access to settings
10:35	imi	ok then I'm going to come up with a was to grant that access
10:36	imi	*way
10:38	sfan5	would be easier to write a method that just returns this particular setting
10:40	imi	ok
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11:42	imi	sfan5: is there any minetest coding standard I can adhere to?
11:42	sfan5	https://dev.minetest.net/Code_style_guidelines
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11:51	Out`Of`Control	hi
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11:54	Out`Of`Control	how delete user from new auth system?
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12:07	hoodedice	https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123125021114369/715898899625279578/Screenshot_from_2020-05-29_16-06-23.png
12:08	hoodedice	while this is "correct" the shadow on the ground looks awful
12:08	hoodedice	https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123125021114369/715898634864164864/Screenshot_from_2020-05-29_16-05-04.png
12:08	NetherEran	crafting eg_health_hunger eg_prospector inventory_populator
12:08	NetherEran	eg_airplanes eg_inventory eg_slabs light
12:11	sfan5	what kind of huge thing are you building
12:11	hoodedice	issa bridge
12:12	hoodedice	sfan5 have a solution for the lighting?
12:13	hoodedice	if no solution I think I'll make a dirt_with_grass that always has a specific light value (if the api supports it)
12:14	sfan5	or maybe make the cobblestone let through sunlight?
12:15	hoodedice	hrm, no, because there's going to be more structures on the cobble bridge (and cobble is just being used to "block out" the concept I'm going for)
12:15	sfan5	another option is to light up the area by editing the map data (worldedit could even do that if it had a command)
12:15	sfan5	if you place glowing nodes there the artifical light will be warmer than sunlight or something like that
12:16	hoodedice	I see
12:19	Out`Of`Control	i use sqlite3 authentication backend.
12:21	sfan5	Out`Of`Control: write a mod to call this function https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5199
12:25	rubenwardy	!tell Miniomtoby I removed minetest mods from the play store a week ago because it was broken, when I fix it I'll release an update with all the translations
12:25	MinetestBot	rubenwardy: yeah, yeah
12:26	sfan5	rubenwardy: you typo'ed the nick
12:27	Out`Of`Control	sfan5: thanks. I can't exicute it without writing a mod?
12:27	sfan5	unless you happen to have worledit or another mod that allows you to run Lua code at hand, no
12:27	Out`Of`Control	yes i have worldedit!
12:28	rubenwardy	Argh, mobile
12:29	Out`Of`Control	no tab!
12:29	imi	sfan5: ok, how do I send my code to you for review, etc? I've just tried to git push a new branch and it failed
12:29	imi	I don't have any experience with pull requests and github
12:29	sfan5	you can fork the minetest/minetest repo on github and then push the changes to yourname/minetest
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12:35	Emerald2	Recommend this forum thread: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14262
12:39	sfan5	hoodedice: here's a mod that does the light thing with worldedit https://0x0.st/ifuf.zip
12:40	sfan5	you'd use //setlight 0 15 to get an area that has no shadow
12:40	hoodedice	thanks m8
12:41	hoodedice	also another bug
12:41	hoodedice	https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123125021114369/715512072733196308/Screenshot_from_2020-05-28_14-29-15.png
12:42	hoodedice	sometimes I get inside this fog like thing
12:42	hoodedice	I can't see it when outside of it, and it is not a cloud
12:42	sfan5	only clouds do that
12:42	hoodedice	but see
12:42	hoodedice	https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123125021114369/715908019493404673/Screenshot_from_2020-05-29_16-42-29.png
12:43	hoodedice	no cloud ^
12:43	hoodedice	https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123125021114369/715908031187124228/Screenshot_from_2020-05-29_16-42-34.png
12:43	hoodedice	how cloud??? ^
12:43	sfan5	might be a bug with offset calculation idk
12:44	sfan5	300 is pretty close(?) to the default cloud height
12:44	hoodedice	I believe it was 125 actually
12:44	hoodedice	lemme check
12:45	hoodedice	either way, the way I set new clouds height is by adding `height = 700` to set_clouds in weather/init.lua
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12:48	hoodedice	brb
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12:58	imi	ok I think my pull request is ready: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9959
12:58	imi	I'll be AFK for the next ~60 minutes
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13:05	MinetestBot	oil_boi: May-29 06:42 UTC <Verticen> Alpha 0.05 looks great! You're making incredible progress. I know that you've got 22i for models, but if you need another source of models let me know. I don't know balls about programming for Minetest, but I'm pretty much a master of blender. Anyway, keep up the good work
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13:05	oil_boi	!minetestbot
13:08	oil_boi	!tell Verticen :D
13:08	MinetestBot	oil_boi: I'll pass that on when Verticen is around
13:11	oil_boi	!tell Verticen Thanks man! I'll keep that in Mind :) Also I will!
13:11	MinetestBot	oil_boi: I'll pass that on when Verticen is around
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13:26	oil_boi	sfan5, oh so using that texture modifier hack I'm doing is as light as the original texture, it's just the initial calculation which is cpu bound?
13:26	oil_boi	The skins thing
13:27	sfan5	using combine with individual pixels will be quite inefficient
13:27	sfan5	but once the texture is "built" once it stays yes
13:28	Warr1024	it's also rather limited in that texture names can only be a certain length
13:28	Warr1024	and if you're in the habit of updating them, they'll need to be recalculated, and the texture names themselves involve some rather large packets sent from the server to clients.
13:29	Warr1024	All in all if we could just get the string length down better, e.g. using a [png: modifier, then it'd save work on the network, on the client, and it'd allow for larger, more complex things to be used in the given space.
13:29	Warr1024	I guess I'll file that issue and see where it goes from there...
13:29	sfan5	we already have an issue for that
13:30	sfan5	the issue with png is that the server has no png library or any code to do texture building because it's ... a server
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13:31	Warr1024	...and I found the PR for it https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9767#issuecomment-620138272
13:33	Warr1024	I don't think we should have to care about the fact that the server doesn't provide PNG tools, though, since mods have options to sort this out themselves. For example, in oil_boi's case in the Crafter skins mod, these PNG files are being pulled from HTTP anyway. It's also possible to farm out to external commands, which also has advantages in
13:33	Warr1024	being able to run optimization tools.
13:33	Warr1024	It's already probably a bad idea to be sending these things really frequently, so taking the time to make a decently optimized image shouldn't break anything that wasn't already broken by the fact that the client will only ever be able to load so many of these into memory...
13:35	sfan5	is the main usecase here building dynamic textures at runtime or pushing new PNG files you already have at runtime?
13:39	Warr1024	In both oil_boi's and my case, it's player skins which we get as already-made PNG files, but not until runtime.
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13:40	Warr1024	What I want is for players to be able to issue a command or something, or a background polling process runs, detects and downloads a new skin, and then updates the skin for the player in-game without having to restart the whole server.
13:41	Warr1024	I've been doing periodic server restarts for skins and telling players basically "skin changes take up to 24 hours, deal with it" but that doesn't necessarily scale well for servers with more going on, and it's not really possible to do a "nightly" restart when your player community is spread across the globe and there's no agreed-upon time when
13:41	Warr1024	it's "night".
13:43	sfan5	a creative workaround would be to use the [combine stuff to until you get to restart the server to have the texture properly available
13:43	Warr1024	I could see this feature being useful for a lot of different kinds of things, though. For example, fully customizable signs.
13:44	sfan5	the proper solution here is to allow the server to push media files at runtime just like it happens at startup
13:45	Warr1024	Yeah, but that's been in the backlog how many years now? We probably just need to be realistic and shoot for something achievable if we want to get traction. Reworking the media transfer thing is pretty ambitious. Maybe we'll get there someday, but then, maybe having the stopgap will help provide the motivation...
13:46	oil_boi	Hmm? My version doesn't only load at runtime haha. If you want to change your skin then you simply git push and then log back into the server and it automatically downloads your new skin
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13:47	Warr1024	For example, the [png: thing is something that I could PR for, and probably a number of other contributors could do. Reworking the media transfer would require not just significant expertise, but it'd be a much larger, much harder to review PR, and require a lot more discussion. Even if I knew how to do a PR like that, I'd probably avoid wasting
13:47	Warr1024	my time because I'd expect it to get shot down inevitably.
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13:48	sfan5	you don't really need to rework media transfer for it...
13:48	oil_boi	No need for server restart
13:49	Warr1024	oil_boi: we know what your mod is doing. What I'm talking about is about all the hoops you're jumping through to do it.
13:49	Warr1024	For one thing, since the server doesn't have PNG generation, I suppose that means it probably also doesn't have PNG decode, so if I have to read in a PNG file and convert it to [combine: that's quite a lot of extra dependencies I have to pull in.
13:50	sfan5	Warr1024: unrelated but have you been able to confirm that upright_sprite no longer crashes?
13:50	Warr1024	I haven't been able to confirm yet. Since most of my players are on 5.2-, I had to change the mod code to simply never use upright_sprite to keep them from crashing out. That would make it hard to test a heisenbug like that at scale...
13:51	sfan5	I see
13:54	Warr1024	Mods can read/write files inside the worldpath, right? Does that include worldmods, i.e. can I write a mod that can examine files inside worldmods to see if a given file is present?
13:54	Warr1024	(and if I AM able to do that, would I expect that to be considered a "bug" eventually and removed later?)
13:55	sfan5	read sure
13:55	sfan5	writing within the world folder is allowed but shouldn't be inside worldmods
13:56	Warr1024	okay, that's fine. Being able to write/append (i.e. to create a stub worldmod if one doesn't exist) would be ideal, but that's really minor.
13:56	oil_boi	I'm pretty sure to include dynamic media like I'm hacking in we'd have to change like 3000 lines of code at least
13:58	Warr1024	Yeah, from what I understand, the client can't accept media after it's initialized, and there is probably a reason for that beyond just being lazy. Multiple layers would have to be notified of the new media, and the client would need to ensure it's reliably received the media before it can actually load and use it.
13:59	Warr1024	[png: would be a little shitty, but it'd require only a new texture mod with a small block of code (the worst aspect of it being the decode and hook into the PNG lib), and wouldn't really change the protocol or anything much. It wouldn't be an ideal "solution" but it'd be a lot cleaner than the [combine workaround, which must expand a PNG image to
13:59	Warr1024	like 50x its original size.
13:59	sfan5	an initial implementation could push the media to the client without regard for caching or letting the client figure out where to get it
13:59	sfan5	regarding synchronization my idea is to let the modder specify a fallback texture that is rendered until the actual texture is loaded
14:00	sfan5	(though that wouldn't be necessary if the server just pushed the texture)
14:00	Warr1024	Has anyone started messing around with the media transfer idea? I've seen on and off discussion, but I wonder if there's any code out there already...
14:00	sfan5	not that I know of
14:00	Warr1024	right now, how does media transfer work? Server alerts client of existence of media, then client has to pull it?
14:01	Warr1024	If it involves a new packet type of server media push then it might work alright. If we need to involve the client's pull process then that would be more complex...
14:01	Warr1024	though obviously if we do active server push then curl media just isn't an option for these (which I'm guessing isn't a deal-breaker, hopefully)
14:01	sfan5	the server tells the client the filenames and hashes, the client decides which ones it needs to pull and requests them directly from the server OR downloads them on its on from remote_media
14:02	oil_boi	Completely random: But if you could make the client download server steps like the media then people wouldn't need to port forward their routers bwomp bwomp
14:02	oil_boi	Oh wait no, my brain hdd hasn't warmed up yet
14:03	Warr1024	you should switch to brain ssd ... but I guess brains are mostly liquid, so maybe that wouldn't work so well.
14:03	nephele	ssds fail too quickly :D
14:04	oil_boi	If only I understood networking, you can communicate with server without ports open, but you can't communicate server to client without them open
14:04	Warr1024	Eh, if I were to make a [png: modifier and submit it as a PR, could it get merged? It looks like the only reason #9767 didn't get merged yet was because of the format...
14:04	ShadowBot	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9767 -- Compact image-generation texture modifier by appgurueu
14:05	Warr1024	hmm...
14:05	sfan5	my issue with such a modifier is that you cannot ever remove the terrible hack it is again
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14:06	sfan5	I'm sure that concern can be addressed somehow
14:06	sfan5	..because it's not like I don't see the need for it
14:08	nephele	passing around modified texture names to create new textures seems really wierd
14:08	nephele	would be nice to create them in advance instead and get a ressource handle or something, would allow for much better caching too maybe :3
14:09	oil_boi	Steps: Dynamic loading textures, caching them. Server and client can create and understand new items and nodes while server loop is running....Profit
14:10	oil_boi	Dynamic loading media*
14:11	oil_boi	Or if you want to get really crazy, dynamic loading mods
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14:18	oil_boi	I can see that getting to the point where someone can literally create a mod which opens a chrome or firefox page on the server computer and can render it into the game using screenshots hahaha
14:20	nephele	not that far fetched, there exist "terminal browsers" that basically open firefox offscreen
14:20	nephele	oil_boi, for that stuff though, i would rather have explicit video and audio streams to use than just downloading textures to display ;)
14:21	nephele	could certainly implement voice chat too over such a side channel
14:21	texmex	oil_boi: I think sorcerykid experimented with dynamically loaded mods iirc…
14:26	texmex	Yes, audio streams would be great. I want a SSM that sends music scores to a (SS)CSM that plays it. MIDI or other. Since the introduction of sound pitching I suppose a Lua-based sample based tracker player can be implemented…
14:27	oil_boi	Hmm, interesting
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14:45	rubenwardy	!tell Miniontoby I removed minetest mods from the play store a week ago because it was broken, when I fix it I'll release an update with all the translations
14:45	MinetestBot	rubenwardy: I'll pass that on when Miniontoby is around
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14:56	MinetestBot	Verticen: May-29 13:08 UTC <oil_boi> :D
14:56	MinetestBot	Verticen: May-29 13:11 UTC <oil_boi> Thanks man! I'll keep that in Mind :) Also I will!
15:08	sfan5	Warr1024: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9961
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15:37	oil_boi	sfan5, testing
15:53	Warr1024	Nice. That seems like it might take some tricky testing, but it looks a lot smoother than I had expected it to. I assume that I only ever need to load the media once, and since it's added to the list, any future clients will receive the media on login?
15:55	Warr1024	I wonder whether media already existing in the cache warrants even a warning, since I'd expect mods to want to just naively notify the server of media, and shouldn't have to keep track of what's already been loaded on their end (adding complexity to the mod when the check already exists in the engine)
15:56	Warr1024	I tend to take warnings and log noise from the engine pretty seriously. If I let those get out of hand then they'll end up biting me.
15:57	oil_boi	On Windows 10: The assertion fails, but if I remove the assertion I get runtimeAddMedia(): illegal filename fasf/skin_oilboi.png
15:57	oil_boi	fasf being the worldname
15:58	Warr1024	sfan5: I think we'll need a way to detect whether the client can support this feature or not, though, or else I won't be able to use it in production until EOS for versions that DON'T support it...
15:58	Warr1024	A protocol version bump, or some kind of protocol feature flag, or whatever...
15:59	sfan5	backwards compatibility is hard in this case
15:59	oil_boi	But Warr1024 we already have that in 5.2, if you look through the server list there are a bunch of servers greyed out
15:59	sfan5	because you can't set object properties that only apply for one client
15:59	sfan5	but there might be some workarounds possible here
16:00	Warr1024	ah, right, I see what you mean
16:00	sfan5	oil_boi: if the assertion fails then something went wrong with the world path
16:00	Warr1024	heh, I'd love to use a trick like "fallback.png^dynamic.png" but if dynamic doesn't load we get a random-color opaque texture instead of all-transparent...
16:02	oil_boi	Hm, not sure how to work around that actually
16:02	Warr1024	I guess to keep the experience the same, I'd have to just use [combine hacks again, so maybe this feature will just have to get some testing via early-adopting mods that require the newest version, and mods with long backwards-compat like mine will just have to wait a bit longer ... but if we don't get it in now, it'll be a LOT longer... :-)
16:03	sfan5	oil_boi: try local temppath = minetest.get_worldpath() .. DIR_DELIM .. "skin_"..name..".png"
16:04	sfan5	Warr1024: with enough messing around I'm sure there's some way to get old clients to ignore extra modifiers
16:04	Warr1024	yeah, but it may be simpler for me to just hold out until I can sunset those versions anyway.
16:04	Warr1024	MT has been making point-releases with at least some regularity.
16:05	oil_boi	IT WORKS
16:05	sfan5	the compatibility for this should really be on the mods though (if the engine can't provide it)
16:05	sfan5	you'll simply have to say if you want to use nodecore x.y.z with player skins ALL your players need at least 5.3.0
16:06	rubenwardy	DIR_DELIM is needed, you can use `/` on all platforms
16:06	rubenwardy	*isn't
16:06	oil_boi	Oh really? Let me try that
16:07	Warr1024	that's more-or-less what I'm planning on doing, only it'll be easiest to do that when I'm already requiring all players on 5.3.0.
16:07	Warr1024	I may or may not be able to technologically enforce minimum client versions, but I'll certainly have warnings where appropriate about required versions.
16:07	sfan5	rubenwardy: in this case it is because fs::GetFilenameFromPath on windows only deals with \ and on linux only with /
16:07	sfan5	could be considered a bug
16:07	rubenwardy	that's a bug
16:07	rubenwardy	yeah
16:07	Warr1024	It'd be really nice if I could just straightforward get client version on the server-side, even in cases when there wasn't a proto version bump...
16:08	rubenwardy	Lua intentionally isolates these things from the lua - notice how all lua stdlib stuff works with / or \
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16:08	oil_boi	Yeah it's a bug, only works with DIR_DELIM on win
16:08	hoodedice	minetest is still alpha :^)
16:08	hoodedice	so technically everyone should switch as soon as a new release is out
16:09	oil_boi	But, it works :D
16:09	oil_boi	"so technically everyone should switch as soon as a new release is out" *Fires up 0.3.1
16:10	oil_boi	Man why can't I join any servers??
16:10	rubenwardy	minetest is not still alpha,
16:10	hoodedice	let me go 0.4.3 for the nostalgia
16:10	sfan5	Warr1024: you can always introduce a captcha that relies on dynamic media being pushed ;-)
16:10	rubenwardy	this is not documented anywhere
16:10	hoodedice	`ah yes, texture atlas warnings`
16:11	rubenwardy	texture atlas hasn't existed for years
16:11	rubenwardy	oh right
16:11	oil_boi	This is so cool, I'll have to add special capes for core devs when this is done :D
16:13	Warr1024	My compat policy is "1 version older than latest release" but it's also "oldest version across each platform," with Android holding me back to 5.0 right now. There IS one existing cosmetic bug in 5.0 with entity attachments, but I'm just sort of sweeping it under the rug for now. I have to figure out exactly what that'll mean when android support
16:13	Warr1024	shows up again in 5.3...
16:14	oil_boi	It am beautiful https://i.imgur.com/jv2kmAV.png
16:14	rubenwardy	that red shouty text is red and shouty
16:14	rubenwardy	also spelt wrong
16:14	rubenwardy	(it's privilege)
16:14	hoodedice	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/18f1ede64f1f155fcdb7b8d0a016b8dbe9cd7522#diff-04c6e90faac2675aa89e2176d2eec7d8
16:14	oil_boi	I cannot speel only toip
16:14	Warr1024	Why the hell have we been arguing about this feature for years now when it took sfan5 like an hour to just DO it?
16:14	hoodedice	I see how it goes
16:15	hoodedice	Warr1024, wait till the comments come in the PR.....
16:15	sfan5	that's a good question
16:15	Warr1024	We only need 2 core dev approvals to merge, right? And sfan5 is already 1, and ruben doesn't sound opposed...
16:15	rubenwardy	it's only part of the feature, generally updating media was the request
16:16	oil_boi	Then label it "part 1 of dynamic media loading"
16:16	rubenwardy	yeah, this is solid as a feature
16:17	Warr1024	It doesn't necessarily have to close the entire request. You can still merge this as a useful feature, and then sweep up issues and find out whose it resolves. My [png: request, for example, was a suggestion, but this could easily be used to accomplish what I really wanted, so I'd close that one as "resolved enough"
16:17	Warr1024	I get the feeling you should be able to find like 3 to 5 issues that you could close with "not exactly what I asked for, but I can make this work just fine" conclusions with this.
16:17	rubenwardy	yeah
16:18	hoodedice	the brake rail texture is bad in minetest_game
16:18	hoodedice	how about using red highlights instead of black?
16:18	sfan5	psst, open an issue
16:19	hoodedice	https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123125021114369/715962373554307145/Screenshot_from_2020-05-29_20-18-27.png
16:19	hoodedice	_guess which of these is the brake rail!!_
16:19	sfan5	mipmapping also works especially bad on rails
16:19	hoodedice	issues are for babies, I'll just make a PR later tonight
16:20	hoodedice	after I'm done procrastinating by building a small cart track around my bridge pillar ig
16:20	Warr1024	I would approve of the idea of doing this for all media, including models and sounds, but it sounds like that could be added later without much hassle, and just doing images is already enough that I wouldn't want to risk letting this slip...
16:20	sfan5	sounds is potentially a problem because they only get loaded once(?)
16:20	sfan5	...maybe I should comment this in the PR instead
16:21	Warr1024	yeah, any sort of "why wasn't X done too" considerations are worth having a prominent record of.
16:22	Warr1024	sounds are borderline for me, while models require enough of an investment of time to make that I'm okay with them not being dynamic :-D
16:23	Warr1024	The way it works with texture packs seems good to me. If a TP artist can predict what a texture will be named then they should be able to texture it, and clients should honor that if possible. If mod authors want to ensure that textures sent are exactly as original and not overridden, then they should be able to do that via the filename.
16:27	Warr1024	If this thing already works as-is, doesn't send the media in some horribly inefficient format that kills bandwidth, and doesn't introduce any worse-than-cosmetic bugs when used, and doesn't cause any regression when not used, then I'd have nothing to complain about it getting merged as it is already :-D
16:28	Warr1024	I assume there must be some upper bound on the media size, possibly something like 64kib?
16:29	hoodedice	is there a quick way to bind the view of the player to the direction the cart is travelling in (or the direction that the player gets into the cart)?
16:29	hoodedice	if there isn't no worries, I'm just procrastinating here
16:39	sfan5	Warr1024: the engine throws an error at 64MB
16:39	sfan5	for practical use I'd suggest staying below 1M
16:40	Warr1024	Haha, 1M is my goal for the total size of my entire game, including all the non-media stuff. I shouldn't have to worry :-)
16:40	sfan5	hoodedice: look at set_look_horizontal
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16:43	hoodedice	thanks step
16:43	hoodedice	https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123125021114369/715968548484153384/Screenshot_from_2020-05-29_20-42-36.png
16:43	hoodedice	<s>this is totally why I built those massive pillars</s>
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16:47	sfan5	2020-05-29 18:47:19: WARNING[Server]: Deprecated usage of get_node_group, use get_item_group instead (at ...minetest/bin/../games/Crafter/mods/redstone/init.lua:108)
16:47	sfan5	^ oil_boi smh
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16:56	oil_boi	sfan5, is there a way to make the server stop and throw the deprecated call as an error?
16:56	sfan5	deprecated_lua_api_handling = error
16:59	oil_boi	jackpot, thanks
17:07	oil_boi	What a mysterious server "Crafter Chaos" slightly modified too
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17:10	oil_boi	So there will be a setting on if a newly downloaded texture can replace the current one?
17:10	rubenwardy	that's the difficulty with dynamic media sending
17:11	oil_boi	Well no, all you have to do is minetest.runtime_add_media(texture,replace_current)
17:11	oil_boi	Then have the code check if the namespace exists
17:12	oil_boi	I'm very curious to see if the entire map would change if a mod called stone.png with it enabled, would it reload the texture into the gpu hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm
17:12	rubenwardy	I'm talking about the internals, not the API
17:12	rubenwardy	I wonder if you could just update the cached texture
17:13	rubenwardy	in which case, no pointers will be invalidated
17:13	rubenwardy	and the cache will stay
17:13	oil_boi	Probably
17:13	rubenwardy	oh, you'd have to clear all texture modified textures created from it
17:14	oil_boi	A very exciting change nonetheless
17:16	oil_boi	You know what
17:16	oil_boi	I'm gonna do it
17:16	oil_boi	I'm gonna make a c++ change finally
17:21	rubenwardy	:O
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17:44	sfan5	oil_boi: do you have an usecase for replacing existing textures?
17:45	oil_boi	Log out, change player texture, log back in
17:45	oil_boi	Instead of playertexture1.png playertexture2.png
17:46	sfan5	hm
17:47	rubenwardy	might also be worth having a way for the server to forget textures, and not send them to new users
17:47	rubenwardy	so you don't end up having to download the skins of the 1000 players that joined in the last two months
17:48	rubenwardy	what happens if you add the texture and then immediate use it? Is it possible the client will use the texture before it fully loads it, resulting in a dummy texture?
17:48	oil_boi	I can picture something really crazy down the line, having a moderator on the server being able to change the server texture pack
17:48	rubenwardy	uh oh
17:48	sfan5	rubenwardy: nope not possible
17:48	rubenwardy	cool
17:48	sfan5	the network layer guarantees delivery of the media push before the active object messages (if you them in the correct order on the server of course)
17:49	sfan5	it doesn't do that for e.g. hud_add and that'll need to be worked around
17:49	whodeadeyes	sfan5: as promised
17:49	whodeadeyes	https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/2690
17:50	whodeadeyes	brb
17:51		whodeadeyes joined #minetest
17:52	sfan5	whodeadeyes: maybe make the red a bit darker
17:52	sfan5	it's quite bright
17:52	whodeadeyes	will do if I see more people ask for it
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18:32	whodeadeyes	!seen paramat
18:32	MinetestBot	whodeadeyes: paramat was last seen at 2019-12-20 22:22:09 UTC on #minetest
18:32	whodeadeyes	doesn't check this channel?
18:32	whodeadeyes	either way, good night guys
18:32	Krock	but it's just evening
18:32	rubenwardy	~seen paramat
18:32	ShadowBot	rubenwardy: I saw paramat in #minetest 22 weeks, 6 days, 20 hours, 10 minutes, and 51 seconds ago saying "anyway, if someone wants it instantly, cheat it in. if you want to appreciate exploration, adventure and challenge, search for it"
18:32	rubenwardy	huh
18:33	Krock	rubenwardy: he only joins #minetest rarely
18:33	rubenwardy	thought it would work on all channels
18:33	Krock	> I saw paramat in #minetest 2
18:33	Krock	it does not "leak" data frmo other channels
18:33	rubenwardy	before I queried
18:33	rubenwardy	MinetestBot does
18:34	rubenwardy	!title
18:34	MinetestBot	rubenwardy: Rick Astley - Never Gonna Give You Up (Video) - YouTube
18:34	Krock	wow thanks MinetestBot
18:34	Krock	instead of title, return the URL to rickroll
18:34	rubenwardy	!title
18:34	MinetestBot	rubenwardy: Urban Dictionary: no u
18:35	Krock	!title
18:35	MinetestBot	Krock: Urban Dictionary: no u
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18:37	rubenwardy	!title
18:37	MinetestBot	rubenwardy: I don't answer to you, fool
18:37	oil_boi_	"but it's just evening" we must update the earth to be flat to remove timezone interference
18:37	rubenwardy	see IRC time
18:37	rubenwardy	also,
18:37	rubenwardy	>implying the earth isn't already flat
18:38	sfan5	the minetest earth certainly is flat
18:39	rubenwardy	I think the canonical name for the minetest world isn't earth, it's map.sqlite
18:39	rubenwardy	heh
18:39	Krock	relevant https://i.redd.it/47rbryagolr41.jpg
18:40	rubenwardy	lol
18:44	texmex	Come join the Flat map.sqlite Society
18:45	texmex	jeija is our nemesis
18:47	luvo	a mod could be made to teleport you when you find the end of the world to the other end
18:47	luvo	so there you have a round minetest globe
18:50	NetherEran	There's a fork somewhere that turns the world into a torus and renders it round
18:55		frabbit joined #minetest
18:57	frabbit	weird... cant find the questions i asked here in the logs... o_0
18:57	Krock	frabbit: maybe you timed out, or asked them in another channel?
18:58	frabbit	Krock: probably... (damn isp...)
19:10	texmex	luvo: the mod exist, but it’s not pretty being teleported to completely different landscape and biome. Now if the perlin noise of the mapgens were made repeatable, it would be a different story :)
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20:05	oil_boi_	sfan5 try this silliness https://github.com/oilboi/minetest/commit/7c61d90e2ec16b36653cb885893c6bcc69e4be81
20:06	oil_boi_	I cannot figure out how to import the yaw from the other function to absolute a multiplier away from 0 so the x view bobbing still gets applied but the y stops, so it makes it look like you're not taking huge steps
20:07	oil_boi_	I have also noticed that sometimes the bobbing does not reset properly even in the unmodified state so I will have to study the code more to fix that
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20:46	unaimillan	How to build lua_api.txt doc?
20:46	sfan5	build to receive what?
20:46	MinetestBot	[git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest: Add minetest.is_creative_enabled 65a6a31 https://git.io/JfKBN (2020-05-29T20:45:40Z)
20:47	unaimillan	local static site with documentation
20:48	unaimillan	I guess, it's possible to call Doxygen for it, but I don't know how
20:50	sfan5	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/mkdocs/build.sh
20:51	unaimillan	yep, I'm trying, but what are the dependencies?
20:51	oil_boi_	Which distro
20:51	unaimillan	Ubuntu
20:52	oil_boi_	https://pastebin.com/raw/kALpVz3L
20:52	oil_boi_	cd ~/minetest
20:53	oil_boi_	run these two commands in that directory https://pastebin.com/raw/2DCExQKE
20:53	oil_boi_	the executable will be in the ~/minetest/bin directory
20:54	unaimillan	but this will build whole MT engine, I'm particularly interested in Doxygen docs
20:54	oil_boi_	oof oof oof my bad
20:55	unaimillan	they require "Python-Markdown" and "mkdocs", but idk what are these
20:55	MinetestBot	[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Clean up CAO nametag handling and remove deprecated AO_CMD 4c8e1c3 https://git.io/JfKRO (2020-05-29T20:54:50Z)
20:55	MinetestBot	[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: content_cao: Do not expire visuals when not necessary db7c262 https://git.io/JfKR3 (2020-05-29T20:54:50Z)
20:56	MinetestBot	[git] MoNTE48 -> minetest/minetest: Add disable_jump check for the player's feet 34862a6 https://git.io/JfKRs (2020-05-29T20:53:58Z)
20:56	MinetestBot	[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest_game: carts: Fix item collection (#2689) e849d54 https://git.io/JfKRG (2020-05-29T20:54:47Z)
20:56	oil_boi_	unaimillan, looks like apt-get python-markdown mkdocs-doc
20:56	oil_boi_	Oh I'm sorry, just mkdocs
20:57	* oil_boi_	searched the ubuntu repos
20:58	oil_boi_	python-markdown appears to be python html support and mkdocs seems to be a site generator
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21:04	unaimillan	yep, worked, thanks. After all, index.html is laying in <SOURCE_DIR>/public
21:07	unaimillan	?‍♂️
21:07	unaimillan	:facepalm:
21:07	unaimillan	there exist online version https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/...
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21:20	oil_boi_	Here's a good question. Is there a builtin print operating for the c++ side of things?
21:21	sfan5	throw stuff into verbosestream, warningstream, errorstream or actionstream
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22:40	sfan5	!tell oil_boi_ I just tried those viewbobbing changes you linked ealier and it might be a bit too much bobbing
22:40	MinetestBot	sfan5: I'll pass that on when oil_boi_ is around
22:46	skyliner_369	I think there's a mod making standing in torches painful? what mod would that even be?
23:01		Miner_48er joined #minetest
23:17	Verticen	that mod sounds dumb tbh
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23:47	iamweasel	hi VanessaE !
23:47	iamweasel	hi Sokomine !
23:48	MinetestBot	[git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest: Devtest: Fix missing/incorrect liquid properties (#9955) 51de4ae https://git.io/JfKg5 (2020-05-29T23:46:57Z)
23:49	iamweasel	is 10+1 here?
23:49	iamweasel	just curious
23:50	iamweasel	hi everyone, i use many nicks, but you may know me as 4lister in message boards, i manage 3hightime servers
23:51	iamweasel	but mostly, I AM WEASEL!
23:51	iamweasel	is swearing allowed in this channel?
23:55	rubenwardy	yes, but you may be asked to tone it back if too much https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules
23:55	iamweasel	thanks rubenwardy :D

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