| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
nephele |
if you can freeze the state the players are in you could also make severall screenshots from different positions, and then catch up on player movement or so |
| 00:00 |
rubenwardy |
Mostly fixed maps |
| 00:00 |
appguru |
TBH one should just record actions to be able to make screenshots later on when replaying |
| 00:00 |
rubenwardy |
Requires intervention |
| 00:00 |
rubenwardy |
Less fun |
| 00:01 |
rubenwardy |
Having a system to take screenshots and then rate the interesting-ness of them is a cool problem |
| 00:01 |
rubenwardy |
But can end up very computer-visiony |
| 00:01 |
nephele |
stir the pile of data till it starts loooking right ;) |
| 00:05 |
appguru |
data science in a nutshell |
| 00:09 |
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| 00:11 |
appguru |
nephele: are you https://github.com/nephele ? |
| 00:12 |
nephele |
no |
| 00:12 |
nephele |
I am not on github |
| 00:13 |
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| 01:36 |
tf2ftw |
majochup, apologies |
| 01:43 |
tf2ftw |
how does the gold key work? Can I lock a regular chest? |
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freelikegnu |
howdy all |
| 02:46 |
Copenhagen_Bram |
hai |
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| 07:08 |
cheapie |
Gotta love it when functions don't do what the docs say they do... |
| 07:08 |
cheapie |
The docs state that minetest.forceload_free_block() "stops forceloading the position" |
| 07:09 |
cheapie |
But... nope, it just decrements the reference count (that minetest.forceload_block() had been incrementing) and then only actually does what it says *if* the reference count becomes zero. Grr. |
| 07:10 |
* cheapie |
just had to manually free a bunch of stuff since a mod had been using it the way it says it's supposed to work, and as a result wound up with hundreds of mapblocks forceloaded that shouldn't have been, some of them tens of millions of times over. |
| 07:32 |
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| 09:46 |
theenemystando[m |
is there a way to get the name of the game for the current world? |
| 09:47 |
theenemystando[m |
i'm new to minetest's API, apologies if it's an obvious problem |
| 09:49 |
sfan5 |
there is certainly no obvious way |
| 09:50 |
theenemystando[m |
how would mods implement cross-game compatibility then? |
| 09:50 |
theenemystando[m |
or is it not implemented yet? |
| 09:51 |
sfan5 |
check if an item, node or API specific to a game exists |
| 09:51 |
theenemystando[m |
that sounds unassuring - what if a game is just a really close fork of the original? |
| 09:52 |
theenemystando[m |
can't expect a mod to check everything then... |
| 09:52 |
sfan5 |
no, why would it? |
| 09:53 |
sfan5 |
if the fork is close enough for the mod's purpose, existing support code will work fine |
| 09:53 |
theenemystando[m |
guess so. I'm not writing a cross-game compt mod though so it'll be fine. |
| 10:00 |
jas_ |
it feels to me like 'game' is a collection of mods, and if a server adds a single mod to worldmods/ directory then is that `game` still `game`? it's an interesting question i'd never considered nor heard asked -- but it made me think of minetest server list which does show the game name |
| 10:20 |
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| 11:18 |
nephele |
theenemystando[m, checking for globals checking for node availability is unfortunately the only way currently |
| 11:18 |
nephele |
there is no get current gamename or anything |
| 11:19 |
nephele |
cheapie, oof, that sounds really annoying... i was planning to use that call soon, but just forceload while something is going on... guess i'll have to do something more complicated |
| 11:20 |
sfan5 |
annoying? |
| 11:20 |
sfan5 |
"forceloading honors the reference count" isn't a bug, it's a feature |
| 11:33 |
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| 11:34 |
nephele |
sfan5, if it doesn't match the doc it is definetely a bug |
| 11:34 |
nephele |
either in the code or the doc |
| 11:34 |
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| 11:34 |
nephele |
For my usecase reference counting is more a detriment if anythign, adding it ontop of an api is easy... but reversing it is hard :) |
| 11:35 |
sfan5 |
the documentation should explain the reference counting, yes |
| 11:36 |
sfan5 |
however what is your situation you have where reference counting is a hindrance? |
| 11:39 |
nephele |
Well, i have mostly mechanics, i would likely forceload each block in a net from a central position, if it's a noop on calls after that i can just do that, if its not a noop i need to do carefull locking to not lock them severall times |
| 11:40 |
sfan5 |
hm |
| 11:41 |
sfan5 |
if it was possible to attach a string key to a forceload, your situation would be easier |
| 11:41 |
sfan5 |
but that means more overhead for the engine |
| 11:41 |
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| 11:43 |
theodixon |
hi |
| 11:43 |
Krock |
hi |
| 11:44 |
theodixon |
To help with the popularity issue of minetest, I have promoted it on my website. https://prospective-technology.co.uk/game_reviews/minetest/ |
| 11:46 |
theodixon |
The website is not fully finished. When it is i hope it gets popular. Minetest was the first article I wrote on it |
| 11:46 |
nephele |
sfan5, yeah, or just one global forceload function that doesn't do counting |
| 11:47 |
Krock |
nephele: that sucks in terms of mod-interaction |
| 11:52 |
tf2ftw |
why is it so much easier to find silver than steel?? Where should I be looking for steel? |
| 11:55 |
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| 11:55 |
Krock |
there's no steel ore |
| 11:55 |
Krock |
you need iron |
| 11:56 |
Krock |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/mapgen.lua#L710 |
| 11:56 |
Krock |
small clusters can be found from -255 to -128 |
| 11:56 |
theodixon |
i think like bronze is made from copper and tin, steel should be made from iron and coal |
| 11:56 |
theodixon |
because iron +carbon = steel |
| 11:57 |
Krock |
large clusters, but more distributed can be found flow -256 |
| 11:57 |
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| 11:57 |
Krock |
theodixon: in the furnace that works just fine. you burn iron with coal to get steel |
| 11:57 |
Krock |
also, this was already discussed a few times. check out the MTG issues on GitHub |
| 11:58 |
theodixon |
oh ok |
| 11:58 |
theodixon |
maybe its a mod i can make, with more alloys |
| 11:58 |
Krock |
see also: |
| 11:58 |
Krock |
!mod technic |
| 11:58 |
MinetestBot |
Krock: Technic [technic] by RealBadAngel - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2538 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic |
| 11:58 |
theodixon |
forgot about that |
| 12:35 |
tf2ftw |
thanks for the info on the steel |
| 12:36 |
tf2ftw |
are there any "sea level" indicators? |
| 12:37 |
nephele |
<0 if you mean mtg |
| 12:49 |
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| 12:55 |
jas_ |
some ambience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvTd-MY64s0 |
| 12:56 |
jas_ |
!server jastest |
| 12:56 |
MinetestBot |
jas_: jastest | jastest.duckdns.org | Clients: 0/15, 0/1 | Version: 5.3.0-dev / minetest | Ping: 133ms |
| 13:00 |
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| 14:54 |
oil_boi |
texmex, do you think I should add snow blocks? |
| 15:12 |
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| 15:15 |
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| 15:19 |
texmex |
oil_boi: Yes, but what mechanism do they bring? |
| 15:19 |
oil_boi |
Spleefing |
| 15:21 |
texmex |
Sure. |
| 15:22 |
oil_boi |
Or snowmen? |
| 15:22 |
oil_boi |
Or even ice cubes :T |
| 15:23 |
texmex |
Love the way you focus on core mechanisms though, rather than lighter biome-related functionality… |
| 15:23 |
texmex |
It’s easy to get lost in biomes, in my experience |
| 15:28 |
oil_boi |
Thanks texmex, the only thing I've gotten lost in so far is how to tell https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4357 not to hurt the player if they fell into some water |
| 15:28 |
oil_boi |
I don't like having biomes do specific functions besides creating certain nodes or it quickly becomes a mess :L |
| 15:31 |
oil_boi |
It doesn't look like it's possible because returning true or false in register_on_player_hpchange doesn't do anything and resetting the hp on one server step after can bring up the death screen with full health |
| 15:33 |
oil_boi |
Also even return({modifier=false,hp_change=0}) is non functional, I wish this explained how to tell the engine the new damage |
| 15:38 |
sfan5 |
oil_boi: http://sprunge.us/c7Mye8?lua |
| 15:42 |
oil_boi |
Thanks sfan5 |
| 15:43 |
nephele |
Is there any way to specify /how/ a specific biome is supposed to look in regards to elevation and stuff |
| 15:43 |
oil_boi |
I'll have to make a note on the explanation style that certain api references like that use |
| 15:43 |
nephele |
like... plains should have relative low elevation across the board, increasing one decreasing one block per 20-30 blocks or so at most |
| 15:44 |
sfan5 |
I don't believe the mapgen offers this flexibility, several noises decide the terrain and biomes decide what nodes to place |
| 15:44 |
nephele |
.-. |
| 15:45 |
nephele |
Guess i'll write my mapgen in lua then, without that it's really unusable for me |
| 15:46 |
sfan5 |
this seems very fundamental so I have a hard time believing that Minetest can't do this |
| 15:46 |
oil_boi |
nephele, you could set the biome to air and then have a custom lua gen in place worse comes to worse but it'll look like there's chunk errors slightly |
| 15:47 |
sfan5 |
or set it to some special filler node and then post-process the terrain in on_generated |
| 15:48 |
nephele |
sfan5, well, i have found nothing in the lua docs for biomes that suggest i could tie biomes to features |
| 15:48 |
nephele |
I have seen some mapgen already that would look fine as a plain, if it actually did generate blocks for my plains biome there |
| 15:49 |
nephele |
currently i just get it randomly /assuming/ the height is correct... but really absolute height too seems like a terrible way to specify terrain, it always seems to take all or nothing |
| 15:49 |
sfan5 |
nephele: sure but it might be possible to control this indirectly by placing plains only where the elevation is smooth |
| 15:50 |
oil_boi |
Ooooo, that's a great idea sfan5, you could use a node as a "grass" layer with the rest set to 0 and then do lua mapgen using the node as a noise reference point and apply amplification to it to create a mountainous region!!! |
| 15:50 |
nephele |
And how would i acomplish that? the biome definition let me tie in only in heat, humidity and absolute heights |
| 15:50 |
sfan5 |
I'm not saying it is possible, just speculating |
| 15:51 |
calcul0n_ |
biome defs have a y_min/max and min/max_poq params, i guess they are done for that |
| 15:51 |
calcul0n_ |
you could register different biomes for different levels |
| 15:51 |
calcul0n_ |
*min/max_pos |
| 15:52 |
nephele |
sfan5, ah okay |
| 15:52 |
nephele |
Well, I would like to be able to specify a median size, with maximum and minimum absolute sizes aswell for biomes |
| 15:52 |
nephele |
In any case, minetests insistence that sea level is ==0 is really wierd imo |
| 15:52 |
sfan5 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/mapgen/mapgen_v7.cpp#L304-L318 |
| 15:53 |
nephele |
See level should be variable too somewhat, or tinier sees higher or so |
| 15:53 |
sfan5 |
well as evident here, terrain is always the same and biomes just control the nodes |
| 15:53 |
nephele |
Yes, i know |
| 15:53 |
nephele |
i don't like that, it's not what i would want my biomes to /mean/ :P |
| 15:54 |
calcul0n_ |
note that a mapgen in lua would probably be terribly slow |
| 15:55 |
sfan5 |
I think nephele is willing to accept that in exchange for being able to do biomes "properly" |
| 15:55 |
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| 15:55 |
calcul0n_ |
yep, i just mean be prepared to suffer :p |
| 15:56 |
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| 15:57 |
rschulman |
Am I right in assuming that once a chunk is generated, there's no way to gen new ores (after adding moreores) in that chunk? |
| 15:57 |
FreeFull |
That does sound right |
| 15:58 |
sfan5 |
"no way" isn't correct, but it's certainly not easy |
| 15:58 |
Krock |
rschulman: use VManip. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L3755-L3757 |
| 15:58 |
Krock |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4764-L4771 |
| 16:01 |
sfan5 |
and unless you want double the ores you should turn existing ores back to stone before calling the method Krock suggested |
| 16:01 |
rschulman |
Oh, I meant from within the game. |
| 16:01 |
sfan5 |
yeah there isn't, you'll need a mod (and not only need but also need to program) |
| 16:03 |
rschulman |
Ok cool, that's what I figured. Thanks. |
| 16:04 |
nephele |
calcul0n_, no it wouldn't |
| 16:04 |
oil_boi |
sfan5, I'm sorry to change the topic but the latest commit that fixed bones well |
| 16:05 |
oil_boi |
https://i.imgur.com/anHyluu.png this is third person in a fresh install of minetest with a few seconds old git clone of minetest gmae |
| 16:05 |
oil_boi |
game* |
| 16:06 |
oil_boi |
I just git fetched and recompiled minetest engine and I was messing around, I went into 3rd person on my game, and I was like, oh no, I broke something, but the same thing happens in MTG |
| 16:07 |
sfan5 |
huh which commit? |
| 16:08 |
oil_boi |
Oh, I thought the bone fixes were pushed, that uhhhhh, makes me even more confused |
| 16:10 |
oil_boi |
sfan5, I cleared the cache and it's all better?? What the |
| 16:10 |
nephele |
you should start making wild acusations in confusion :3 |
| 16:11 |
oil_boi |
nephele, YOU DID THIS |
| 16:11 |
oil_boi |
There |
| 16:11 |
nephele |
I am honored, beyond honored, to be important enough to be a probably cause for compile errors on your machine |
| 16:12 |
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| 16:12 |
oil_boi |
But in all seriousness this is why I get super nervous when I find stuff like this, I still remember when entities would sometimes keep old functions stored in their metadata even though you completely redefined them and cleared their serialize and deserialize functions completely, that was a very long time ago |
| 16:13 |
oil_boi |
Thank you nephele for being such a kind and caring glitch gremlin |
| 16:13 |
nephele |
That's a new one |
| 16:14 |
nephele |
Hmm... I'll add "re-implement mapgen in lua" to my todo list... right after "make a new crafting api" |
| 16:14 |
oil_boi |
oh yeah, I didn't even bother bug reporting it because after 1-2 server restarts in singleplayer at least it would fix itself, but it was fixed around 2014 or so but good lord it was annoying |
| 16:21 |
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| 16:21 |
oil_boi |
nephele, https://github.com/paramat/lvm_example |
| 16:22 |
nephele |
? |
| 16:23 |
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| 16:26 |
texmex |
oil_boi: I wonder, since you’ve added Aether-like features, are you keen on some other MC mods that feel like they should’ve been in vanilla? Related to adding biomes, I’m interested in Tough As Nails functionality myself, as it makes biomes really behave different. |
| 16:34 |
oil_boi |
texmex, I'm watching a video on it right now and taking notes |
| 16:35 |
texmex |
Awesome ? |
| 16:37 |
texmex |
This video is the best one I’ve found for explaining its mechanics. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kgNWUWjpKwk |
| 16:40 |
texmex |
Sorry, I think I meant this one https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5SjTtFcYMuU |
| 16:42 |
oil_boi |
texmex, in that last one you sent, he has made an EXTREMELY good point, we should have modding teams |
| 16:43 |
oil_boi |
Err, wasn't really a point, he just mentioned modding teams |
| 16:44 |
oil_boi |
Before I even finish watching all 3 of these videos, time to add ice |
| 16:45 |
orbea |
If a mod calls 'set_hp(-1, "foo")' then 'reason.type' for 'minetest.register_on_player_hpchange()' should be "foo" and not "set_hp", right? |
| 16:46 |
texmex |
oil_boi: Agreed. It was touched upon in this thread: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=371343 |
| 16:46 |
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| 16:47 |
oil_boi |
Linuxdirk: Minetest development is super slow and the devs are uber scared of changes so it is just the easiest and simplest way to code things you need by yourself. |
| 16:47 |
texmex |
But the idea should be expanded upon and tried. From what I can tell it was quite common in the MC community. |
| 16:48 |
oil_boi |
>if you can make the thing run as fast as it would in the engine in LUA then there is no need to add it into the engine because 97% of anyone will not agree that it should be added into the engine anyways |
| 16:48 |
texmex |
More like this post, specifically https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=371343#p371343 |
| 16:48 |
orbea |
oh, im doing it wrong now that I look at other examples... |
| 16:50 |
oil_boi |
texmex, your idea is good, I looked over that thread and was inspired by your post before adding https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/blob/master/mods/new_functions/init.lua |
| 16:50 |
orbea |
Now: 2020-04-26 09:49:56: ERROR[Server]: Bad type given! *sigh* |
| 16:51 |
oil_boi |
Touch based damage, damage inside node, suffocation inside regular drawtype nodes, all based in lua, all extremely fast |
| 16:51 |
orbea |
how do you give it a custom damage type? |
| 16:51 |
oil_boi |
orbea, can I see your code? |
| 16:52 |
texmex |
oil_boi: Yeah, especially when you’ve client-side mod at your disposal \o/ |
| 16:52 |
oil_boi |
texmex, Oh my man, if I added that into clientside, I think I'd hover above my chair and do a flip in excitement |
| 16:53 |
orbea |
oil_boi: not my code, but I am trying to modify hunger_ng on this line: https://gitlab.com/4w/hunger_ng/-/blob/master/system/hunger_functions.lua#L187 |
| 16:53 |
orbea |
it now has: player:set_hp(new_health, { type = reason }) |
| 16:54 |
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| 16:54 |
oil_boi |
Clientside api basically creates the possibility to go from singlethreaded to threads = (however many players are in the game) + server thread |
| 16:55 |
orbea |
both hunger_ng and 3d_armor report the type correctly as "starving", maybe the error is bogus? |
| 16:55 |
oil_boi |
orbea, see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4363 |
| 16:56 |
texmex |
oil_boi: Yes, it's quite exciting and I think you're doing the right thing by starting using it right away even before server-sent csm is possible. |
| 16:56 |
oil_boi |
orbea, then https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5869 You must give reason a custom string to work with it |
| 16:56 |
orbea |
oil_boi: i have read it many times, maybe I dont understand what it means? I undestood that if it gives a reason as indicated it should use that instead? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5869 |
| 16:57 |
oil_boi |
so set_hp(10, "you_are_cool") or set_hp(-10, "you_dun_goofed") |
| 16:57 |
orbea |
i did that at first and it just reports set_hp then |
| 16:58 |
orbea |
(in 3d_armor) |
| 16:58 |
oil_boi |
orbea, Oh man, I dunno then, you might have to PM Linuxdirk on the forum |
| 17:00 |
oil_boi |
texmex, once the server does CSM automatically all of my fears of people using CSM to hack like crazy in the Crafter, or any game, will be completely relieved!! |
| 17:01 |
texmex |
Build now, worry never :) |
| 17:01 |
oil_boi |
That's very true |
| 17:02 |
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| 17:05 |
orbea |
oil_boi: not sure its specific for hunger_ng, this is just what I was trying it with. See https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/server/player_sao.h#L252 and https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/script/lua_api/l_object.cpp#L242 |
| 17:05 |
orbea |
it seems the code assumes custom reasons are not possible? |
| 17:05 |
orbea |
even though the docs indicate it is? |
| 17:06 |
orbea |
and despite the error message it continues to use the custom type... |
| 17:07 |
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| 17:07 |
oil_boi |
orbea, I think you need a moderator or engine developer to help you at this point because I've never tried what you're trying so I don't know hot to resolve it |
| 17:07 |
oil_boi |
!mod |
| 17:07 |
MinetestBot |
oil_boi: Sound Reactions 1.0 [soundreaction] by Glory! - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13185 |
| 17:08 |
oil_boi |
Oh.. |
| 17:08 |
orbea |
ah, thanks for trying anyways :) |
| 17:10 |
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| 17:17 |
rubenwardy |
orbea: I wrote that code, you can provide custom reasons but the type must be "custom" |
| 17:18 |
rubenwardy |
Well, or an existing valid type |
| 17:20 |
orbea |
rubenwardy: so how would I determine between two different custom types, say "foo" and "bar"? |
| 17:21 |
orbea |
doesn't work? player:set_hp(new_health, { type = "custom" } |
| 17:22 |
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| 17:23 |
oil_boi |
texmex, oh my god the models for entities and players are randomly not loading in, I'm about to throw this motherboard in the garbage |
| 17:23 |
rubenwardy |
{ type = "custom", some_other_field = "foo" } |
| 17:23 |
rubenwardy |
perhaps `type` should allow arbitrary types that start with `_` or something like that |
| 17:25 |
orbea |
even with type = "custom" it still prints an error |
| 17:25 |
orbea |
also dont see where it checks "custom" in the code |
| 17:26 |
rubenwardy |
hmmm |
| 17:26 |
rubenwardy |
try not specifying the type? |
| 17:26 |
rubenwardy |
this is broken |
| 17:26 |
rubenwardy |
oh, looks like I made up the custom type |
| 17:27 |
rubenwardy |
it's not documented |
| 17:27 |
rubenwardy |
the `set_hp` type should probably be used |
| 17:28 |
rubenwardy |
set_hp`: A mod or the engine called `set_hp` without giving a type - use this for custom damage types. |
| 17:28 |
orbea |
adding { hunger = reason } works, I guess I can do that |
| 17:28 |
orbea |
i dont think disabled armor damage for "set_hp" is a good idea, that would break armor damage from tnt and probably other things I think |
| 17:28 |
orbea |
*disabling |
| 17:29 |
rubenwardy |
armor doesn't make sense with set_hp |
| 17:29 |
rubenwardy |
armor is strictly a tool caps thing |
| 17:29 |
rubenwardy |
so you should use punch |
| 17:29 |
rubenwardy |
you can specfiy a nil puncher, you use the player as the puncher |
| 17:29 |
rubenwardy |
or an entity |
| 17:29 |
rubenwardy |
actually, citation needed |
| 17:30 |
rubenwardy |
yes, confirmed |
| 17:30 |
orbea |
fwiw 3d_armor handles armor damage here https://github.com/mt-mods/3d_armor/blob/master/3d_armor/init.lua#L403 |
| 17:31 |
orbea |
it should also be damaged by things like falling or lava |
| 17:31 |
rubenwardy |
oh right, I misunderstood what you meant by armor damage |
| 17:31 |
rubenwardy |
I see the problem - you don't want hunger to affect armor |
| 17:31 |
orbea |
so my idea was to define what types it should not be damaged by, in my use case that mostly means drowning, eating things that damages the player and from starving |
| 17:31 |
oil_boi |
sfan5, I found the bug: If I turn shaders off no models load?? |
| 17:32 |
orbea |
drowing is a defined type so that was easy |
| 17:32 |
orbea |
*drowning |
| 17:32 |
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| 17:33 |
oil_boi |
sfan5, this has to be a bug with manjaro or arch |
| 17:33 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Fix mapgen settings in minetest.conf being ignored (#9737) eca6ee9 https://git.io/Jftd5 (2020-04-26T17:32:29Z) |
| 17:33 |
MinetestBot |
[git] theviper121 -> minetest/minetest: Fix UpdateBonePosition() breaking animations (#9577) e1fc72c https://git.io/Jftdd (2020-04-26T17:32:04Z) |
| 17:33 |
sfan5 |
oil_boi: works for me here |
| 17:34 |
* Lone_Wolf |
claps |
| 17:35 |
rubenwardy |
works her for me too (Manjaro) |
| 17:36 |
rubenwardy |
I don't turn shaders off though |
| 17:43 |
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| 17:54 |
oil_boi |
rubenwardy, sfan5 https://youtu.be/27-JEmC3FDQ This is something |
| 17:54 |
oil_boi |
!title |
| 17:54 |
MinetestBot |
oil_boi: What even is this bug - YouTube |
| 17:57 |
sfan5 |
flat clouds is a new feature |
| 17:57 |
sfan5 |
or rather varying cloud "densities" |
| 17:59 |
Krock |
oil_boi: your menu clouds are really weird |
| 17:59 |
oil_boi |
sfan5, oh okay, I'm more concerned about the vertices outlines showing up on everything around 5:36 |
| 17:59 |
sfan5 |
either way here's an existing bug report https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9072 |
| 17:59 |
Krock |
#9072 |
| 17:59 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9072 -- Faces show as if in wireframe mode |
| 17:59 |
Krock |
these ninjas again |
| 18:00 |
oil_boi |
So then the models not showing up at all is the new bug then? |
| 18:00 |
sfan5 |
yea looks like it |
| 18:01 |
sfan5 |
so to confirm the wireframe bug happens with antialias x2 regardless of whether shaders are enabled? |
| 18:03 |
oil_boi |
shaders don't matter, x2 worse, x4 is slightly less worse, if formspec that's translucent in front it's even worse |
| 18:03 |
oil_boi |
if shaders on, entity and player model loads, shaders off, entity and player model doesn't load |
| 18:04 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Remove unused lookup table from noise.cpp 68f45fc https://git.io/JftFB (2020-04-26T17:52:09Z) |
| 18:06 |
sfan5 |
entities not loading is a new bug, possibly related to https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9374 |
| 18:06 |
sfan5 |
would be good to know if it works with a build before Feb 16 |
| 18:06 |
oil_boi |
sfan5, how to get build before feb 16 |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
reset your shaders |
| 18:07 |
sfan5 |
https://minetest.kitsunemimi.pw/builds/ there's one from 2020-02-10 |
| 18:07 |
sfan5 |
if you want to compile from source you can just use git to reset to any commit you want |
| 18:08 |
Krock |
(nvm @ shaders) |
| 18:09 |
Krock |
might be related to the new use_texture_alpha distinction? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9374/files#diff-90993ca3bb550ffc1c77a1578f3545d3R591 |
| 18:09 |
sfan5 |
that was there before |
| 18:09 |
oil_boi |
sfan5, tested in wine, the problem still happens |
| 18:10 |
* Krock |
opens his eyes |
| 18:10 |
sfan5 |
oil_boi: hm good to know |
| 18:10 |
nephele |
Krock, your eyes were closed all this time? |
| 18:10 |
oil_boi |
Damn I hate opening these huge problems |
| 18:10 |
rschulman |
How would folks go about creating a lua node that prevents mobs (say from mobs_redo) from passing above it or coming w/in a certain number of blocks of it? Is there a way to influence `minetest.find_path`? |
| 18:10 |
sfan5 |
if this is broken with 5.1, 5.0, ... too then it must really be due to some change in Mesa/AMD's code |
| 18:10 |
Krock |
how about a 0.4.x build? if it happens there it's likely a driver issue |
| 18:10 |
oil_boi |
sfan5, LETS FIND OUT |
| 18:11 |
sfan5 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases/download/5.1.1/minetest-5.1.1-win64.zip |
| 18:11 |
sfan5 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases/download/5.0.1/minetest-5.0.1-win64.zip |
| 18:11 |
sfan5 |
^ for your convenience |
| 18:11 |
orbea |
oil_boi: any chance you tried the mesa git master? |
| 18:11 |
Krock |
rschulman: only manual influence by changing the code |
| 18:11 |
sfan5 |
rschulman: there are some hacks possible e.g. overwriting minetest.find_path from a mod, but such a thing should really be implemented in mobs_redo itself |
| 18:13 |
oil_boi |
5.1 wine doesn't render player either way, same with 5.0 |
| 18:13 |
oil_boi |
orbea, let's give it a try cause I'm about to throw this RX580 in the toilet |
| 18:14 |
rschulman |
Ok, makes sense, thanks! |
| 18:15 |
orbea |
i have amd too and I find its best to follow the git for libdrm/mesa and the most recent llvm stable release |
| 18:15 |
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| 18:15 |
orbea |
if all else fails apitrace might help |
| 18:16 |
orbea |
(would help track down the bad GL calls) |
| 18:16 |
Lone_Wolf |
IIRC if you disable mipmap the entity missing bug no longer occurs |
| 18:16 |
oil_boi |
Lone_Wolf, the mipmapping was disabled in all tests |
| 18:17 |
Lone_Wolf |
Or something else was up. Been a while since I had that problem |
| 18:17 |
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| 18:18 |
oil_boi |
I had this problem on windows and I thought it was just me being a dumb with the visualstudio stuff |
| 18:19 |
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| 18:19 |
sfan5 |
wait wait, the clouds turned wireframe-y on windows too? |
| 18:20 |
Lone_Wolf |
OH. I fixed the bug by removing the directional_lighting PR from my client |
| 18:20 |
oil_boi |
sfan5, yeah |
| 18:20 |
sfan5 |
oh no |
| 18:20 |
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| 18:20 |
Lone_Wolf |
I could pop over to Windows and test for the wireframes if wanted |
| 18:20 |
oil_boi |
I cannot get into the windows 10 install because the new windows update completely killed the bootloader |
| 18:20 |
sfan5 |
if this was a bug in just Mesa it would be somewhat okay to fix/diagnose |
| 18:21 |
sfan5 |
but on Windows the situation is entirely different (unless AMD ships Mesa as OpenGL implementation there?) |
| 18:21 |
orbea |
might indicate that minetest is doing something wrong and it just happens to work on some drivers |
| 18:21 |
Lone_Wolf |
Ping me if you need some testing |
| 18:21 |
orbea |
or maybe they just have the same bug by chance (the video drivers) |
| 18:22 |
oil_boi |
One second, you have to remember that the drivers on windows, if shipped with the same implementation of opengl could be using the stable branch, I'm compiling the git version of mesa AMD drivers right now to check |
| 18:23 |
Lone_Wolf |
Lemme know if you succeed. I couldn't figure out how to get the custom-compiled mesa to override my current one |
| 18:23 |
oil_boi |
AMD couldn't get their rx5800XT running right for months I don't doubt they couldn't figure out how to do OpenGL |
| 18:28 |
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| 18:29 |
oil_boi |
sfan5, no need to worry, you and orbea's assumptions were correct and it was the shit AMD drivers |
| 18:29 |
sfan5 |
so it's fixed in Mesa master? |
| 18:32 |
oil_boi |
On Mesa 20.1.0-devel (git-bf3c9d2770) latest dev working, with wine 5.0 is working, with wine 5.1 is working (shaders on and off for all 3) |
| 18:33 |
oil_boi |
But, what this means is, anyone who has AMD GPUs and is on windows or linux with the stable OpenGL implementation is going to have this bug and it's not anyone's fault but AMD |
| 18:33 |
oil_boi |
I would make a forum sticky about this for the time being :T |
| 18:33 |
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| 18:35 |
oil_boi |
I can't test this on W10 with unstable OpenGL implementation because 1, I don't work at AMD and 2, I don't want W10 to wipe my grub again |
| 18:40 |
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| 18:50 |
oil_boi_ |
sfan5, I'm sorry to keep piling stuff up but, it seems like AA 2 and 4 are the only one's that do anything bad is because they're the only ones doing anything https://imgur.com/a/s5E24Cv |
| 18:51 |
sfan5 |
useful to know |
| 18:51 |
oil_boi_ |
Alright I'm gonna stop bug reporting because I'm being an ultra downer rn |
| 18:51 |
sfan5 |
so in conclusion: AMD recently broke anti aliasing |
| 18:51 |
oil_boi_ |
When doesn't AMD break literally anything |
| 18:52 |
sfan5 |
their CPUs are pretty good |
| 18:52 |
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| 18:52 |
oil_boi_ |
Yes, yes they are, but their GPUs get the big oof from me |
| 18:53 |
oil_boi_ |
I have a full AMD system so it's like heaven and hell wrapped into one |
| 18:54 |
tf2ftw |
speaking of specs, what type of cpu/ram are needed to host ~100 users? |
| 18:54 |
Lone_Wolf |
speaking of 100 users how are you planning to get that many players? :thinkeyes: |
| 18:55 |
tf2ftw |
ha yeah |
| 18:55 |
oil_boi_ |
tf2ftw, you're gonna need a singlecore that does 7GHZ |
| 18:55 |
tf2ftw |
I live in a neighborhood with a lot of kids ;) Maybe my son can make it go viral at school |
| 18:55 |
sfan5 |
before you run out of RAM the poor cpu utilization of Minetest will bring you down |
| 18:56 |
sfan5 |
so grab the CPU with the best single-core performance and hope for the best |
| 18:56 |
tf2ftw |
single core at 7ghz? is MT not multithreaded? |
| 18:56 |
oil_boi_ |
tf2ftw, oh man, I'm sorry to pull that bandaid off for you |
| 18:56 |
sfan5 |
to some extent |
| 18:56 |
sfan5 |
but everything that (really) matters happens in the server loop in a single thread |
| 18:57 |
tf2ftw |
well.. hm |
| 18:57 |
sfan5 |
of course how responsive this is also depends on what the mods do |
| 18:57 |
tf2ftw |
ok true. im not complaining. |
| 18:57 |
tf2ftw |
good to know though. |
| 18:58 |
oil_boi_ |
one day we will have multiple thread capabilities! I hope! I am just too dumb to put ideas into code through C++ |
| 18:58 |
Krock |
GHz is not the only factor. If the RAM latency were lower and instructions took less cycles you'd get the same performance for lower clock rates |
| 18:59 |
tf2ftw |
Well for now, MT is perfect for my 5yo sold and me to play with a few of his friends :) I was just wondering what the hit was per player |
| 18:59 |
Krock |
basically the goals of RISC. only a few instructions, but those must be somewhat fast |
| 18:59 |
tf2ftw |
* son |
| 18:59 |
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| 18:59 |
oil_boi_ |
the only way I can see doing this in pure LUA is https://www.lua.org/pil/9.4.html and .after statements but they will have to funnel back into a single thread right now |
| 19:00 |
tf2ftw |
Go has very nice thread management but I digress |
| 19:01 |
oil_boi_ |
tf2ftw, if you have a multicore you can set the emerge_threads in the conf and it will generate the map much faster which is probably what you're more worried about with default MTG |
| 19:01 |
sfan5 |
the best case for threading optimization I see is running object's on_step outside the server loop |
| 19:01 |
sfan5 |
but you can't "just" put that on another thread |
| 19:02 |
oil_boi_ |
sfan5, oo that's a good idea :T I mean you could but it wouldn't communicate properly with the terrain and you'd have to have the objects work with the server instead of the server work with the objects |
| 19:02 |
Krock |
it would need an entire map modification pipeline |
| 19:02 |
oil_boi_ |
Exactly |
| 19:02 |
oil_boi_ |
The objects would have to work from 1 memory pool and calculate using that |
| 19:03 |
sfan5 |
the most likely way I can see this working is that mods can submit work to run in the background |
| 19:03 |
sfan5 |
those functions then run in a different Lua environment with limited/low-priority/read-only(?) access to the map and stuff |
| 19:05 |
oil_boi_ |
That would make memory management so ultra extremely efficient, the closest thing we have now is having objects offload data to the closest player's client using modchannels and calculate using that essentially distributing processing threads to as many people that join the game |
| 19:05 |
tf2ftw |
Why not at least separate thread to render things beyond the players view - or maybe that is already happening and the real issue is the mods? |
| 19:06 |
sfan5 |
"render"? |
| 19:07 |
tf2ftw |
fair. prepare to render? |
| 19:07 |
oil_boi_ |
I think tf2ftw is talking about caching chunks that are not currently stored in the clients mapdata memory pool |
| 19:08 |
tf2ftw |
Thanks. Yes |
| 19:09 |
tf2ftw |
I'm sure we're talking about re-arch no matter the direction though. right? |
| 19:09 |
oil_boi_ |
That does technically happen tf2ftw, when you hit unlimited viewing range that's why your client fps tanks if you've walked very far |
| 19:09 |
tf2ftw |
i see |
| 19:09 |
oil_boi_ |
But I assume you're talking about extending the distance of viewable chunks? |
| 19:09 |
tf2ftw |
Na I'm just saying to offload work beyond the players view |
| 19:10 |
tf2ftw |
basically limit the player view so other things can happen at a "slower" pace |
| 19:10 |
sfan5 |
are we talking about the server now or client? |
| 19:10 |
tf2ftw |
ah right. good call out. I guess that would be the client |
| 19:11 |
tf2ftw |
Didn't mean to take us down a rabbit hole. Thanks for the info |
| 19:12 |
sfan5 |
the server already puts objects to sleep if there is no client within 48 (by default) nodes |
| 19:14 |
oil_boi_ |
Offload all object ABM LBM etc work seems to happen already, in minetest.conf you have max_block_send_distance which limits the amount of mapblocks you can see, then there's active_object_send_range_blocks which seems to set how far objects can stay alive from the player, and then there's active_block_range which controls how far from the player ABMs can run |
| 19:15 |
oil_boi_ |
Doing this per client would cause some serious problems |
| 19:15 |
sfan5 |
active_block_range also applies to objects |
| 19:15 |
sfan5 |
but when active_object_send_range_blocks < active_block_range the objects are kept alive but you don't see them |
| 19:16 |
oil_boi_ |
Holy moly so any forceloaded block can still process entities? That's extremely useful |
| 19:16 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Panquesito7 -> minetest/minetest: Add new command /revokeme <priv> (#9584) 2fe4641 https://git.io/JftNE (2020-04-26T19:15:05Z) |
| 19:16 |
sfan5 |
they do, yes |
| 19:20 |
oil_boi_ |
*Brain has quit (Quit: Turned to charcoal) |
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| 19:39 |
oil_boi_ |
You know what we really need: A fishing game |
| 19:40 |
Lone_Wolf |
With MC-like fishing rods? |
| 19:41 |
oil_boi_ |
Lone_Wolf, Nah like https://youtu.be/xcZhg77asYU |
| 19:41 |
oil_boi_ |
!title |
| 19:41 |
MinetestBot |
oil_boi_: Action Bass ... (PS1) - YouTube |
| 19:43 |
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| 20:13 |
texmex |
Watch out for viral diseases on your favorite servers https://gitlab.com/sztest/epidemic |
| 20:13 |
sfan5 |
!title |
| 20:13 |
MinetestBot |
sfan5: sztest / epidemic · GitLab |
| 20:17 |
texmex |
oil_boi_: Nay to synchronous, individual rod fishing. Yay to asynchronous, coop net fishing! |
| 20:24 |
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tf2ftw |
texmex, nice |
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| 20:48 |
oil_boi_ |
texmex, that's crazy |
| 20:48 |
oil_boi_ |
And awesome! |
| 20:50 |
oil_boi_ |
Also texmex I already added the prototype of it but it acts weird :T https://youtu.be/e1Uauh0szgU |
| 20:50 |
oil_boi_ |
Maybe just simple fishing for now and make a complete fishing game later :T :T :T |
| 20:52 |
oil_boi_ |
Ahh man, Action Wrass in Minetest is gonna go on the backburner |
| 20:55 |
oil_boi_ |
All the elements of making a fishing game are already in the engine, you can do a singlenode worldgen and literally load maps in by clearing the area using vm and then loading in a stored schematic, hell you can create doom right now with all the stuff that's in the engine |
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| 21:49 |
jas_ |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTNostYetvE |
| 21:49 |
jas_ |
rocket jump on jastest |
| 21:49 |
jas_ |
shooter shoots players but not mobs :/ |
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