| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:16 |
Wuzzy |
rubenwardy: hrm. the image in 9-sliced image buttons bleeds over, however. :/ https://satoshiupload.com/images/tcoAsSUfrp.png |
| 00:16 |
rubenwardy |
:'( |
| 00:16 |
Wuzzy |
any idea on how to prevent making the image bleed into the border? |
| 00:16 |
rubenwardy |
oh no, hmm |
| 00:16 |
rubenwardy |
I don't think it's supported yet |
| 00:17 |
Wuzzy |
other than shrinking the image itself ? |
| 00:17 |
rubenwardy |
you could probably add a padding in the image or using texture modifiers |
| 00:17 |
Wuzzy |
these are item_images |
| 00:17 |
rubenwardy |
surely it resizes to fix? shrinking wouldn't help |
| 00:17 |
rubenwardy |
the ones to the right are? |
| 00:17 |
Wuzzy |
yes the book question mark etc |
| 00:18 |
Wuzzy |
i only mean those |
| 00:18 |
Wuzzy |
ignore the rest ? |
| 00:18 |
rubenwardy |
oh really, ok |
| 00:18 |
rubenwardy |
item_image_button seems stange for the non-book stuff?# |
| 00:18 |
Wuzzy |
i suppose mt could do this automatically even. minetest knows the size of the slices |
| 00:18 |
Wuzzy |
just make the image fit in neatly into the center slice |
| 00:19 |
df458 |
I can confirm that behavior, looks like all button content has no problems overflowing the slices |
| 00:19 |
df458 |
We should consider changing that |
| 00:19 |
rubenwardy |
it looks like it's not overflowing though? Just reaching |
| 00:19 |
Wuzzy |
oh sorry |
| 00:19 |
Wuzzy |
wrong wording |
| 00:19 |
df458 |
Err, overflowing the center |
| 00:19 |
rubenwardy |
the 9-slice size may not be the desired padding, so having a padding option would be good |
| 00:19 |
Wuzzy |
its not about padding ... |
| 00:19 |
rubenwardy |
it is |
| 00:20 |
rubenwardy |
the item image should be have padding inside the button |
| 00:20 |
Wuzzy |
and how would the padding work in your opinion? |
| 00:20 |
rubenwardy |
style[btn1;padding=20] -> 20 pixels from each edge to the content of the button |
| 00:20 |
rubenwardy |
although |
| 00:21 |
rubenwardy |
this should have a default that is non-zero |
| 00:21 |
Wuzzy |
yes |
| 00:21 |
rubenwardy |
because the default border button shouldn't have it touching the edge |
| 00:21 |
Wuzzy |
the default should be size of the border (which minetest knows) |
| 00:21 |
rubenwardy |
also, it would be in inv units not pixels, probably |
| 00:21 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 00:22 |
Wuzzy |
so that by default, the image is drawn neatly inside the center slice. no need to fiddle around with custom pixel values |
| 00:22 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 00:22 |
rubenwardy |
hm |
| 00:22 |
Wuzzy |
the benefit of this is that it would also work in texture packs for free ? |
| 00:22 |
Wuzzy |
oh wait |
| 00:23 |
Wuzzy |
hmmm texture packs cant really tweak the dimensions of 9slice i guess |
| 00:23 |
rubenwardy |
correct, unfortunately |
| 00:23 |
Wuzzy |
anyway not that of a big deal |
| 00:23 |
Wuzzy |
could be a problem if the original image is tiny |
| 00:23 |
rubenwardy |
we could hypothetically add a system where texture packs can define styles for certain formspecs |
| 00:23 |
Wuzzy |
like 6×6 pixels |
| 00:23 |
rubenwardy |
it'll scale up then right? |
| 00:24 |
rubenwardy |
this could be reused by formspec prepends |
| 00:24 |
rubenwardy |
this being <rubenwardy> we could hypothetically add a system where texture packs can define styles for certain formspecs |
| 00:24 |
Wuzzy |
hmmmmm i dont know if upscaling works |
| 00:24 |
Wuzzy |
if you have a original image of 32×32 pixels... |
| 00:24 |
Wuzzy |
and you say the center is... whatever... at 9,9 |
| 00:24 |
rubenwardy |
if it doesn't then this should probably be considered a bug |
| 00:25 |
Wuzzy |
well the thing is you must specify absolute pixel values for the center |
| 00:25 |
rubenwardy |
huh? |
| 00:25 |
Wuzzy |
bgimg_middle |
| 00:25 |
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| 00:25 |
rubenwardy |
oh right, I'm getting mixed up |
| 00:25 |
rubenwardy |
could be a problem with images of 6x6pixels using 9slice |
| 00:26 |
rubenwardy |
I thought you were referring to images of 6x6 pixels inside a button - which should be scaled up to fit |
| 00:27 |
Wuzzy |
awww. tabheader color still doesnt work ? |
| 00:27 |
Wuzzy |
oh well. maybe next time ? |
| 00:28 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, unfortunately I couldn't work that out |
| 00:28 |
rubenwardy |
it'll probably need to be pulled into our code and fixed |
| 00:28 |
rubenwardy |
I'd also like to see the tabs in a tabheader be buttons |
| 00:28 |
Wuzzy |
I remember OldColder claimed to have fixed it in Final Minetest, however |
| 00:28 |
rubenwardy |
he modified Irrlicht to do so |
| 00:28 |
Wuzzy |
you actually looked at it? |
| 00:28 |
rubenwardy |
the color is defined in a skin |
| 00:28 |
rubenwardy |
no, a guess |
| 00:29 |
Wuzzy |
hmmm strange. i dont think i have seen irrlicht inside the repo... |
| 00:29 |
rubenwardy |
we could change the skin - we actually have our own version - but it's not specific to a particular tabheader or even tabheaders in general iirc |
| 00:29 |
rubenwardy |
he has a fork of irrlicht for building with, I know this from the spam |
| 00:30 |
rubenwardy |
it is possible to change the color of the tabheaders, but I wanted to move away from Irrlicht's skins into our own styles |
| 00:30 |
rubenwardy |
I believe it's here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/gui/guiSkin.cpp#L808 |
| 00:32 |
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| 00:33 |
rubenwardy |
<rubenwardy> I'd also like to see the tabs in a tabheader be buttons |
| 00:33 |
rubenwardy |
not in the formspec format, but internall |
| 00:33 |
rubenwardy |
it'll mean that we'll be able to share code for drawing the buttons, and also styling |
| 00:33 |
rubenwardy |
there will need to be a new style state - selected |
| 00:34 |
rubenwardy |
style state #9378 |
| 00:34 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9378 -- Formspecs: Add state-selection to style elements by Df458 |
| 00:35 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, I got confused - since I looked at tab headers, we have pulled in the Irrlicht code (skins) that draws them. But it creates difficulties with linking up with formspecs that mean that I'd rather not change the skin too much |
| 00:35 |
Wuzzy |
rubenwardy: heh. in Pixture/Repixture, the "tabs" are also implemented as buttons ? |
| 00:36 |
Wuzzy |
or image_buttons, to be precise |
| 00:36 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, the tabheader isn't strictly needed but is nice |
| 00:36 |
df458 |
I suspect 'checked' that was mentioned in the thread could work for this, since it's intended for on states in toggle buttons and checkboxes |
| 00:36 |
rubenwardy |
oh yeah |
| 00:36 |
rubenwardy |
that's a good one |
| 00:36 |
df458 |
But that doesn't exist yet ofc |
| 00:36 |
rubenwardy |
tabheader really starts to get interesting when you allow binding sub-containers for it, for each tab |
| 00:37 |
rubenwardy |
although, where "interesting" means "you get latency free tab switching" |
| 00:37 |
rubenwardy |
at the cost of slower initial formspec showing, heh |
| 00:38 |
rubenwardy |
I want there to be loads of discussion on #9358 so it can be started for 5.3.0-5.4.0 |
| 00:38 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9358 -- Formspec Refactor |
| 00:40 |
rubenwardy |
supertuxkart uses Irrlicht GUIs, and they already have a container based thing up and running: https://github.com/Benau/stk-code/blob/0ca3e4725708e5b325f9a36596ab949b6a0706ca/data/gui/screens/help7.stkgui# |
| 01:26 |
Wuzzy |
rubenwardy: so this just happened: https://satoshiupload.com/images/9mJuFLKLUP.png |
| 01:26 |
Wuzzy |
i dont think if i can change the texxt color as well :/ |
| 01:26 |
rubenwardy |
Hmmm |
| 01:27 |
Wuzzy |
for the buttons, yes. but not for the rest |
| 01:27 |
rubenwardy |
It is just the label and text area text? |
| 01:27 |
rubenwardy |
Ah ok |
| 01:27 |
rubenwardy |
I've been meaning to make a test formspec for white theming in the formspec test mod in minimal |
| 01:28 |
Wuzzy |
i have already assimilated your latest changes to the formspec test into devtest ? |
| 01:28 |
Wuzzy |
whats your plan with "white theming"? |
| 01:30 |
Wuzzy |
rubenwardy: ohhh. no i remember why i didnt use formspec_prepend to set the background... |
| 01:30 |
rubenwardy |
Yay |
| 01:31 |
Wuzzy |
this is why: |
| 01:31 |
Wuzzy |
https://satoshiupload.com/images/xA8Lb0i1Qw.png |
| 01:31 |
rubenwardy |
Bunch of styles applied on top of the real coordinates test (which shows lots of elements) so that things that aren't light themed will stand oit |
| 01:31 |
rubenwardy |
Ah yeah |
| 01:31 |
Wuzzy |
this screenshot shows the Creative Inventory, but there's a background9 in formspec_prepend |
| 01:31 |
Wuzzy |
i wonder if there's a way to get rid of it |
| 01:31 |
rubenwardy |
No_prepends such a bit, we could use a clear backgrounds tag |
| 01:32 |
Wuzzy |
yeah but then I will lose all other info in my formspec_prepend such as tooltip color |
| 01:32 |
rubenwardy |
Which is why it would be good to be able to clear just the background |
| 01:33 |
Wuzzy |
yea |
| 01:41 |
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| 11:48 |
Quiark |
here's my experimental tool for sending Lua commands to minetest while it's running |
| 11:48 |
Quiark |
https://github.com/Quiark/mtrepl |
| 11:51 |
Quiark |
using some tricks you may be even able to update tool/node behaviour at run time (by redefining the functions) |
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| 12:09 |
shangul |
Quiark, REPL? Like Lisp's??? |
| 12:10 |
yrungr |
i want to make regular backups of my minetest server. is it necessary to shut the server down to do this? i'm guessing since sqlite is a text based file i can just copy that whenever i want, unlike mysql. |
| 12:10 |
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| 12:11 |
nalkri |
Everything needs a REPL |
| 12:12 |
norkle |
its a game no need to backup. |
| 12:12 |
sfan5 |
sqlite is not a text based file |
| 12:13 |
yrungr |
ok. file based database. |
| 12:13 |
sfan5 |
anyway not sure if copying an sqlite without locking will just work |
| 12:15 |
Quiark |
yeah would also have some concern about that. You should test it a bit first. If you switch to Postgres then backups should be more reliable imho |
| 12:15 |
Quiark |
repl like lisp is kinda the idea but right now it's still far, mainly it doesn't send back the result :P |
| 12:16 |
yrungr |
https://www.sqlite.org/backup.html |
| 12:16 |
Quiark |
unfortunately Lua's support for executing received snippets doesn't give me almost any info about errors occuring in that snippet |
| 12:18 |
yrungr |
hmm. copying the database takes 0.114 seconds. i don't think anyone would notice it being locked for that time. |
| 12:18 |
yrungr |
cool. |
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norkle |
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| 17:17 |
sprutsel_brululu |
i have an question: can you add new properties to registered nodes via lua api? |
| 17:18 |
sprutsel_brululu |
not nodes but entities in general |
| 17:20 |
DS-minetest |
nodes are very different from entities |
| 17:20 |
sprutsel_brululu |
yea nodes are fixed on the map while entities are walking around and have damage and shit yea |
| 17:20 |
DS-minetest |
not only that |
| 17:20 |
sprutsel_brululu |
but i meant entities in a generic sense, as in stuff you register |
| 17:20 |
DS-minetest |
you can change some entity properties per entity |
| 17:20 |
DS-minetest |
ah |
| 17:21 |
sprutsel_brululu |
not per entity but globally |
| 17:21 |
DS-minetest |
node and item defininitions are only sent once to the client, when they join |
| 17:21 |
sprutsel_brululu |
i only want to do it once when the mod starts |
| 17:22 |
DS-minetest |
there are functions to override registered stuff |
| 17:22 |
DS-minetest |
like .override_node |
| 17:22 |
sprutsel_brululu |
e.g. i want to modify default definitions to add property of mass to everything which will be used for other stuff |
| 17:24 |
DS-minetest |
you could also make your own table where you store for each of the registered things (whatever you want here exactly) this property |
| 17:25 |
DS-minetest |
like `local masses = {["default:dirt"] = 1, ["default:cobble"] = 2} |
| 17:25 |
sprutsel_brululu |
that'd be great if I knew every item on the server |
| 17:25 |
DS-minetest |
there are minetest.registered_* tables |
| 17:26 |
DS-minetest |
!api |
| 17:26 |
MinetestBot |
Someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt |
| 17:27 |
sprutsel_brululu |
no, I meant that to know which weight I should set I should know about the block I'm setting it for and preparing a single table useful for all beforehand would require knowledge of every block from every mod which is too much for me |
| 17:29 |
DS-minetest |
you could set a default value |
| 17:29 |
sprutsel_brululu |
also if someone were to try to add support of my mod to their item/block/biome mod they'd have to modify not their own mod by setting property in their own blocks but ask me to add stuff to that great table of all possible blocks |
| 17:30 |
DS-minetest |
you could make a global table with the name of your mod and put the great table into that global table |
| 17:30 |
DS-minetest |
then other mods could access it |
| 17:30 |
DS-minetest |
or put a function into that global table |
| 17:31 |
DS-minetest |
(those mods would still have to (optionally) depend on your mod so that they can be sure, the table is created) |
| 17:32 |
sprutsel_brululu |
is it better to store properties common for all items of same type as those global tables or by overriding items? |
| 17:34 |
DS-minetest |
by overriding items I guess you mean storing the property in the definition table |
| 17:34 |
DS-minetest |
i guess it depends |
| 17:34 |
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| 17:35 |
sprutsel_brululu |
the property will be used rarely, not every tick |
| 17:35 |
sprutsel_brululu |
its mainly an inventory mod |
| 17:35 |
DS-minetest |
if that property is just some internal thing in your mod, an own table is probably better |
| 17:36 |
DS-minetest |
if it's more like an api that other mods can use, storing it in the definition is better (if you do this, use _yourmodname as field name) |
| 17:38 |
DS-minetest |
the access speed is the same if you have all the same keys |
| 17:38 |
DS-minetest |
afaik |
| 17:38 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Well its obviously an internal thing for now but I think other people could use it, sure. Having a ready access to item mass could be useful for I dunno, minecarts and trains and boats. |
| 17:39 |
sprutsel_brululu |
A lot of things really. |
| 17:40 |
DS-minetest |
i dont think, other mods could reliably rely on some arbitrary value of another mod |
| 17:40 |
DS-minetest |
but mass sounds like a property that belongs into the definition |
| 17:40 |
DS-minetest |
in this special case, you could even think of using node groups |
| 17:42 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Why arbitrary? Mass of 1 cubic meter of water is exactly a ton. Dirt is... depends on a type of dirt really but you can still put a realistic number on it. |
| 17:46 |
Krock |
depends on the temperature of the water |
| 17:48 |
DS-minetest |
is salt water heavier than sweet water btw? |
| 17:48 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Ok how about this: I make a mod which adds properties to blocks such as mass or compressed volume (meaning volume it'd take up in inventory, e.g. leaf item has 1 cubic meter volume as a node but like a fifth of that after being cut). And then inventory mod uses its properties without providing any of its own. |
| 17:48 |
DS-minetest |
(sweet water near dessert sand) |
| 17:48 |
DS-minetest |
you could do that |
| 17:49 |
DS-minetest |
I did actually not expect realistic values |
| 17:49 |
Krock |
> dessert sand |
| 17:49 |
Krock |
> sweet water |
| 17:49 |
Krock |
ah, that's why |
| 17:50 |
sprutsel_brululu |
I actually tried to make realistic mod back in 0.4.something but couldnt because API had no methods for something, cant remember what now. The API was also still in the works and people told me to wait. |
| 17:51 |
DS-minetest |
I'm still waiting for a mod that generates dessert biomes, nobody seems to want to implement it |
| 17:51 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Well, it seems really weird to me that a person can dig 99 cubic meters of dirt weighting 150 tons with bare hands and walk with it like its nothing. |
| 17:51 |
DS-minetest |
realisticness doesn't always result in fun |
| 17:52 |
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| 17:53 |
DS-minetest |
hm, you could guess the weight of a node via its drawtype |
| 17:53 |
sprutsel_brululu |
It doesn't always, but when it does its a higher state of fun. The harder the struggle the sweeter the achievement. |
| 17:53 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Nah, then wood and rock would have same weight. |
| 17:54 |
DS-minetest |
plantlike~> low weight, normal and paramtype1~="light"~> heavy |
| 17:54 |
DS-minetest |
group stone weights more than group wood |
| 17:54 |
DS-minetest |
or choppy or whatever |
| 17:55 |
sprutsel_brululu |
There's still the issue of trunk being split into 4 wood |
| 17:55 |
DS-minetest |
true |
| 17:55 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Its better to set such stuff manually |
| 17:55 |
DS-minetest |
or look through crafting recipes |
| 17:56 |
DS-minetest |
the sum of the mass that goes in has to be equal to the sum that goes out |
| 17:56 |
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| 17:56 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Thats not true |
| 17:57 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Generally is but think of a pickaxe for example or any other tool |
| 17:57 |
DS-minetest |
tools are heavy... |
| 17:57 |
DS-minetest |
very heavy |
| 17:58 |
DS-minetest |
you'd have to ignore repairing recipes and co. of course |
| 17:58 |
sprutsel_brululu |
1 blocks of rock = 2.7 tons. 3 blocks are 8 tons. 8-something ton pickaxes and axes? No thanks. |
| 17:59 |
sprutsel_brululu |
What comes out is less than what comes in generally |
| 17:59 |
DS-minetest |
that's mainly because the recipes are unrealistic ;) |
| 18:01 |
sprutsel_brululu |
They are ok imho, you just chisel rock and throw out the refuse so it doesnt count. Of course they could be better but for that you'd need to know mass... |
| 18:01 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Like in CataDDA |
| 18:03 |
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| 18:06 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Oh, another question is hot to forbid throwing items out |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
player inventory callbacks, or override the drop function |
| 18:08 |
sprutsel_brululu |
What about cases like sand dropping? If you dig big sand columns some blocks overlap and one of them drops as an item |
| 18:08 |
Krock |
that's a feature |
| 18:09 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Is it? |
| 18:09 |
Krock |
to prevent entities that are stacked on the same position |
| 18:09 |
Krock |
or within solid nodes |
| 18:10 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Its not a feature but a failsafe I'd say |
| 18:10 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Proper behaviour would be decreasing height of a column by one without dropping any items |
| 18:10 |
Krock |
I like to label all workarounds or bugs as features |
| 18:11 |
sprutsel_brululu |
I knew it |
| 18:11 |
sprutsel_brululu |
I havent played minetest for a couple of years, did the blinking-recently-placed-block feature get removed yet? |
| 18:12 |
Krock |
how many years? |
| 18:12 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Since 0.4.something |
| 18:12 |
DS-minetest |
that's so inaccurate |
| 18:12 |
Krock |
0.4.something can be a range from 2 to 7 years (or so) |
| 18:13 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Oh well |
| 18:13 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Does it matter? |
| 18:13 |
Krock |
kinda, because I'm not aware of any "blinking" as you described |
| 18:13 |
Krock |
joined in 2013 |
| 18:13 |
DS-minetest |
if you are referring to node prediction blinking-problems, these still exist |
| 18:14 |
Krock |
ah, those when the network packet takes too long, and the prediction is reverted. yes. |
| 18:14 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Its when you are place blocks on the roof on your building and step on the block you just placed but it ceases to exist for a moment and you fall down to your death |
| 18:14 |
DS-minetest |
yep, exactly that |
| 18:14 |
DS-minetest |
there's a PR to fix this though |
| 18:15 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Oh, thats what some of you said to me the last time I asked this |
| 18:15 |
sprutsel_brululu |
several years ago |
| 18:15 |
Krock |
at least on the servers I played, this is less noticeable than it was before.. maybe just a feeling |
| 18:15 |
Krock |
block sending and the network stuff has seen quite some fixes |
| 18:16 |
Krock |
yet, the RTT calculation is still broken |
| 18:16 |
sprutsel_brululu |
what about lagging into walls while riding minecart or mobs? Are there any decent mobs yet? |
| 18:16 |
Krock |
nothing helps if you play on 5s lag servers (which is far less common now) |
| 18:17 |
Krock |
!mod mobs_redo |
| 18:17 |
MinetestBot |
Krock: Mobs Redo [mobs] by TenPlus1 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9917 |
| 18:17 |
sprutsel_brululu |
What causes the lag btw? Can't be network because it happens even on the local machine. |
| 18:17 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Is there some IO going on? Logs or nodes written? |
| 18:17 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Happens -> happened |
| 18:18 |
Krock |
ABMs, mods, map saving |
| 18:22 |
sprutsel_brululu |
I remember mobs redo, they were laggy things which travelled in straight lines before teleporting elsewhere every time client received an update and could sometimes hit me from from 20 blocks away multiple times in a single second and sometimes couldnt hit at all. I understand its not the fault of their author that prediction and entities are shit but still, those werent proper mobs as I understand them. |
| 18:22 |
Krock |
enjoy testing it in a recent build :) |
| 18:28 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Another question: what about climbing ladders? |
| 18:29 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Is there a way to modify ladders behaviour based on the state of the player (can't climb with 3 tons of rock in your hand)? |
| 18:30 |
DS-minetest |
it's like swimming or flying I think |
| 18:35 |
sprutsel_brululu |
actually apparently I asked all the same questions about a year ago |
| 18:35 |
sprutsel_brululu |
according to irc logs |
| 18:35 |
DS-minetest |
just one year? |
| 18:36 |
sprutsel_brululu |
one year. It wasnt my first time trying to make the mod though |
| 18:36 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Also apparently eating doesn't trigger inventory callbacks? |
| 18:36 |
DS-minetest |
you did expect that changes happened after one, in minetest? |
| 18:36 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Is it still true? |
| 18:36 |
sprutsel_brululu |
I forgot that I was here a year ago |
| 18:37 |
DS-minetest |
I don't think, eating something triggers invcallbacks |
| 18:38 |
sprutsel_brululu |
I only joined because someone mentioned minecraft elsewhere and it lead to me mentioning minetest and then I remembered that I wanted to make a mod |
| 18:38 |
sprutsel_brululu |
that's definitely a feature |
| 18:44 |
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| 18:46 |
sprutsel_brululu |
What my old mod had can be split into 3 parts basically - item properties, player inventory and player physics. Player physics did stuff like soft capping inventory by slowing and damaging player if he carries tons of stuff. Problem was there wasnt a way to know how much stuff player has because various actions - like eating - can affect inventory without calling callbacks. |
| 18:47 |
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| 18:53 |
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| 18:54 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Is there some mod which adds placeable node counterparts for default items lacking them? E.g. tools and flints? |
| 18:54 |
sprutsel_brululu |
There is a fancy ingot stack mod which is nice. |
| 18:55 |
DS-minetest |
I don't know any such mod |
| 18:58 |
twoelk |
the placeable ingots mod maybe? |
| 18:59 |
twoelk |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=21491 |
| 19:03 |
sprutsel_brululu |
I said I already knew about it. But its not enough. There are still things like tools which cannot be placed. |
| 19:13 |
twoelk |
most items cannot be place directly, that's one of the reasons for itemframes |
| 19:13 |
twoelk |
I wonder why you can place an apple but not a bread |
| 19:14 |
sfan5 |
legacy reasons really |
| 19:14 |
DS-minetest |
apples need to be placeable |
| 19:14 |
DS-minetest |
they grow on trees |
| 19:14 |
sfan5 |
it might've been better to have a node "leaves with apple" instead of an apple taking up a single node |
| 19:14 |
twoelk |
and some farmyard might look more convincing with shovels leaning in the corner and buckets standing around |
| 19:15 |
sfan5 |
sprutsel_brululu: sounds like a great idea for a mod then |
| 19:16 |
twoelk |
hmm so if all items get placeable I could plant me a bucket tree :D |
| 19:17 |
sprutsel_brululu |
i just want realism - e.g. players having to haul tons of stone refuse out of the mine and pile it somewhere - so I thought I'd just forbid dropping blocks, only allowing to place them - but players can still craft tools and drop them. |
| 19:18 |
sprutsel_brululu |
having placeable pickaxes is not ideal of course - players would just take tons of sticks into a mine, craft 3 rocks into a pick and place picks on the ground - but at least they'd still have a pile of refuse, even if made of pickaxes |
| 19:19 |
twoelk |
I would bet too much realism in mining whould make most players quit mining |
| 19:19 |
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| 19:20 |
sprutsel_brululu |
no, its just an incentive for being inventive, like power limitation is an incentive to build generators and nuclear reactors in technic |
| 19:20 |
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| 19:22 |
sprutsel_brululu |
since moving stuff by hand is a pain you'd have to use first a wooden wheelbarrow and then you'd build rails and minecarts for hauling stone - and not just useless rollercoaster rides - and then you'd automate it, etc |
| 19:23 |
Krock |
but fun rides are fun |
| 19:25 |
twoelk |
which probably limit the types of players that stay for longer - which may or may not be your intend right from the start ;) |
| 19:25 |
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| 19:25 |
sprutsel_brululu |
teleporters and megahuge golden chests are nice but they take the fun out of the game, at least technic drills and lasers come at an actual cost with having to build and maintain infrastructure, supply fuel to power etc |
| 19:26 |
DS-minetest |
technic is easy, just craft one of those cheap water mills that give nearly unlimited power these days |
| 19:26 |
twoelk |
I guess whe might be on similar lines here though the weighting might differ considerably |
| 19:28 |
twoelk |
for example I tend to avoid technic if possible but like it when choices have indeed consequences though I generally dislike getting trapped in dead ends with absolutely no way out |
| 19:29 |
sprutsel_brululu |
I would like it if the game encouraged me to build creatively, resource constraints, etc. With teleporters you can build random rooms not even connected to each other and just teleport in between. |
| 19:30 |
twoelk |
some skyblock games for example could get better if you could use detours to still get nessesary achievements done |
| 19:30 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Teleports should at least have a cost in coal or something |
| 19:31 |
MinetestBot |
[git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: GUIFormSpecMenu: Remove field_close_on_enter warning (#9501) 7da4f9e https://git.io/JvKz6 (2020-03-10T19:30:55Z) |
| 19:31 |
MinetestBot |
[git] developedby -> minetest/minetest: Remove unnecessary checks before delete (#9500) 30d795b https://git.io/JvKzi (2020-03-10T19:30:42Z) |
| 19:31 |
twoelk |
yep once your technic quarry is set up you could use a coal sink |
| 19:32 |
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| 19:33 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Desour -> minetest/minetest: Fix memory leak in GUIHyperText (#9489) b42493f https://git.io/JvKzM (2020-03-10T19:32:38Z) |
| 19:33 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: minetest,get_connected_players: Return empty table at load time (#9493) 7a7bfdc https://git.io/JvKzD (2020-03-10T19:32:04Z) |
| 19:34 |
twoelk |
I wonder if teleporters could be easily set up to consume different amounts of resources according to distance and type of teleportation |
| 19:35 |
twoelk |
maybe teleporting with filled pockets could cost more or certain types of things you take allong |
| 19:40 |
sprutsel_brululu |
is there something like a list of all items registered by "official" mods (default, bucket, stairs, etc)? |
| 19:41 |
sfan5 |
don't think so |
| 19:41 |
twoelk |
for example taking some stacks of stones or dirt with you might just be expensive on the regular power source you need to feed the device but transporting some highend technical device might need some other rarer fuel while transporting into the sky might need yet a more refined sorce of energy |
| 19:41 |
sfan5 |
but I can easily make you one |
| 19:43 |
sprutsel_brululu |
please do, I think I've seen some mod which extracts lists of all items from servers (not sure if it can save the list though) or I could spend an hour writing python script to get it from init.luas but you probably have a better way |
| 19:44 |
* twoelk |
wanders off to create an oval sun to study optical effects in the sky again |
| 19:45 |
sprutsel_brululu |
or I could spend a few minutes grepping ... |
| 19:45 |
sprutsel_brululu |
hmmm |
| 19:45 |
sfan5 |
grep won't find you every item since many are registered programtically |
| 19:45 |
sprutsel_brululu |
dang |
| 19:46 |
sprutsel_brululu |
like stairs you mean? |
| 19:46 |
Krock |
write a mod that prints out all |
| 19:46 |
sprutsel_brululu |
there is a mod but it prints out all in ui, not sure about files |
| 19:46 |
sprutsel_brululu |
and it hasnt been updated since 2017 |
| 19:47 |
sprutsel_brululu |
i think |
| 19:48 |
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| 19:52 |
sfan5 |
just items and tools or also placable nodes? |
| 19:52 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Hm |
| 19:52 |
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| 19:52 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Are there any nodes without item equivalent? |
| 19:52 |
sprutsel_brululu |
I think even air has an item for it |
| 19:53 |
sfan5 |
nodes are automatically items, so no |
| 19:53 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Were you talking about strictly non-node items before? |
| 19:54 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Because I do need every kind of item, including node ones. |
| 19:54 |
sprutsel_brululu |
entity-items are an abomination against nature by the way, I curse minecraft for inventing them |
| 19:55 |
sprutsel_brululu |
that sounded wrong |
| 19:55 |
sprutsel_brululu |
they are an abomination and a crime against nature |
| 19:56 |
DusXMT |
Well, it can't be that hard to make a placable version |
| 19:57 |
DusXMT |
If you want, you could work on an API to allow ingots to be placed and stacked on top of each other |
| 19:57 |
DusXMT |
(like it's done in Terrafirmacraft) |
| 19:58 |
sfan5 |
sprutsel_brululu: here's your list https://a.uguu.se/p3NVbceGio23_list.csv |
| 19:59 |
sfan5 |
that first item without a name is the hand, though I'm 100% sure it does not appear in the creative inventory |
| 20:02 |
* DusXMT |
should probably read more than just a few lines when opening a channel, was amused at the emotional reaction to non-placable items being present |
| 20:02 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Nice, thanks |
| 20:03 |
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| 20:03 |
sprutsel_brululu |
I wasnt reacting to non-placeable items but to ability to dig 3 tons of rock and drop it on the ground as a tiny immaterial cube which will disappear |
| 20:03 |
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| 20:03 |
sprutsel_brululu |
3 tons of rock if it was a single node, 300 tons if its a stack of 99 |
| 20:08 |
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| 20:29 |
sprutsel_brululu |
what's the criteria by which some items are in the creative inventory and some arent? |
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| 20:31 |
sprutsel_brululu |
does not being in a creative inventory guarantee that I wont ever find this item in the wild by digging/crafting? |
| 20:31 |
rubenwardy |
the mod decides, and no |
| 20:32 |
sfan5 |
generally, things that are intended to be placed by the user are in the creative inventory |
| 20:35 |
sprutsel_brululu |
farming:hoe_bronze,"Bronze Hoe",tool,no |
| 20:35 |
sprutsel_brululu |
- but farming:hoe_steel,"Steel Hoe",tool,yes |
| 20:35 |
sprutsel_brululu |
hmm |
| 20:35 |
sprutsel_brululu |
seems like creative inventory flag can be ignored since no useful information can be derived |
| 20:35 |
sprutsel_brululu |
I hoped I could just ignore all items with creative inventory "no" since I wont ever meet them |
| 20:36 |
sfan5 |
something not being in the creative inventory is a good indicator but not a guarantee |
| 20:37 |
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| 20:37 |
rubenwardy |
I've been meaning to expand by recipe checker to check whether recipes are possible |
| 20:40 |
rubenwardy |
difficult though and probably not the worth the effort |
| 20:46 |
sprutsel_brululu |
is it possible to demand conditions for crafting? E.g. crafting table level 3 + steel hammer to craft armor, or something like that? |
| 20:46 |
sprutsel_brululu |
Not just in crafting ui greying out the "Craft" button or whatever, but on the server, so that nothing can be done even if the client calls crafting bypassing GUI |
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| 20:47 |
sfan5 |
sure, the implementation of the crafting table would need to enforce that |
| 20:48 |
sprutsel_brululu |
i checked register craft item and there's nothing in properties there that allows redifining crafting |
| 20:48 |
sprutsel_brululu |
and craft_item too, you can defined ingredients but not the tools and conditions |
| 20:49 |
sprutsel_brululu |
ehhh I meant register craft |
| 20:49 |
sprutsel_brululu |
define* ingredients |
| 20:50 |
sfan5 |
it's not built-in of course |
| 20:51 |
sprutsel_brululu |
mmmm |
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sfan5 |
I don't remember if register_craft allows custom properties but you could store them out-of-band either way |
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| 21:04 |
literalnobody |
americans measure some densities in pounds per acre-foot, what the heck is even that, why would you ever invent something so inane |
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| 21:28 |
sprutsel_brululu |
what a conundrum: ingots have very vague size |
| 21:29 |
sprutsel_brululu |
on one hand two ingots are enough for a sword so I'd say one ingot is ~10kg, but on the other hand 9 ingots are a cubic meter of metal which means one ingot is ~1000kg. Are ingots closer to 10 or to 1000kg? |
| 21:31 |
sprutsel_brululu |
the ingot placement mod allows placing 64 ingots per node which results in ~100kg ingots, assuming each stack weights about 2/3 of cubic meter of solid metal. |
| 21:32 |
calcul0n |
not sure looking for realism in this game can lead anywhere :) |
| 21:32 |
sprutsel_brululu |
just gotta make everything realistic enough simultaneously. |
| 21:32 |
sprutsel_brululu |
the problem here is that while ingots will be realistic crafting will not |
| 21:33 |
sprutsel_brululu |
so gotta remake crafting as well, dang |
| 21:33 |
sprutsel_brululu |
but I already wanted to anyway |
| 21:34 |
sprutsel_brululu |
the only problem is that other people won't be able to use mass of an ingot usefully since its usefullnes will only shine in conjunction with overloaded crafting |
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| 21:39 |
sprutsel_brululu |
people must learn how enourmous cubic meters are |
| 21:39 |
sprutsel_brululu |
hope they will see the light once they have to spend a whole stack of ingots to craft a single cube |
| 21:54 |
Lone_Wolf |
Have you tried Nodecore yet sprutsel? |
| 21:54 |
Lone_Wolf |
You might find it a lot easier to convert into a realistic game, if it doesn't already meet your wants |
| 22:00 |
sprutsel_brululu |
yes, i remember it |
| 22:01 |
sprutsel_brululu |
no, its not really realistic, it just uses a different metaphor so to speak, but no less disjointed from reality |
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| 22:07 |
Lone_Wolf |
More realistic that MTG by quite a bit IMO |
| 22:07 |
Lone_Wolf |
Hence: You might find it a lot easier to convert into a realistic game |
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