| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:03 |
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| 01:20 |
Unarelith |
VanessaE, since node-bound entities won't be a thing until a long time, would you have a Lua solution to do something like this? maybe you've already done this with signs_lib? |
| 01:22 |
VanessaE |
signs_lib and relatives just spawn an entity in the right spot, but they're not really "bound" to the node. rather, the mod will search around the sign node for the entity that should be there, when needed |
| 01:22 |
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Unarelith |
is there some issues with this solution? |
| 01:24 |
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| 01:24 |
Unarelith |
when I say "bound" in Lua it's virtually bound, in a way that the parent node (for example the sign) should hold child entities lifetime |
| 01:24 |
VanessaE |
not really any more problems than with anything else that uses entities |
| 01:25 |
Unarelith |
I was thinking of node removal and such, is it possible that the entities sometimes survive without their parent node? |
| 01:25 |
Unarelith |
that would be the main issue with this type of implementation |
| 01:26 |
VanessaE |
they can yes |
| 01:26 |
VanessaE |
generally, you'd use an after dig or on destruct to delete the entity |
| 01:27 |
Unarelith |
but sometimes it doesn't work I guess? |
| 01:28 |
VanessaE |
only if your code sucks ;) |
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Unarelith |
VanessaE, what's the meaning of the prefix ":" ? https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/signs_lib/blob/master/init.lua#L1001 |
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scr267 |
Is the hometownserver gone? |
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| 03:32 |
VanessaE |
~tell Unarelith a colon prefix allows the engine to register an item with a name different from the mod doing the call. |
| 03:32 |
ShadowBot |
VanessaE: O.K. |
| 03:39 |
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| 04:13 |
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| 04:16 |
Xiong |
I had to go to source to read this text in full: "Allow splitting incoming stacks from tubes". New to me is a toggle with that. Split how? One stack distributed among all free slots? |
| 04:18 |
Xiong |
Don't yet see a use. Perhaps if two slots each are partially full, incoming stack fills one, then another? |
| 04:24 |
Xiong |
Oddly, furnace has a similar toggle... which might make sense, splitting incoming ore from fuel. But pipeworks source says "(not fuel)". Erm, there being only two input slots, splitting not fuel confuses me. |
| 04:27 |
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| 04:28 |
SaKeL |
hi is there anywhere a current minetest tree schamtics tables (l-systems) documentation? |
| 04:42 |
Hawk777 |
Xiong: uncertain, but does it mean that if, say, a stack of 10 arrives in the tube, and there’s only room for 5 in the inventory, with the switch turned off the stack will not go in, but with the switch turned on, 5 will go in and 5 will stay in the tube? |
| 05:04 |
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| 05:05 |
paramat |
!tell SaKeL yes at https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/schematic_tables.txt |
| 05:05 |
MinetestBot |
paramat: I'll pass that on when SaKeL is around |
| 05:06 |
paramat |
!tell SaKeL but they're not l-systems, they're MT schematics |
| 05:06 |
MinetestBot |
paramat: I'll pass that on when SaKeL is around |
| 05:54 |
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| 06:04 |
Xiong |
Hawk777, that's another interpretation. Could mean anything, I guess. |
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| 10:58 |
Unarelith |
VanessaE, thanks for yesterday, my barrel now perfectly works :p |
| 10:59 |
Unarelith |
though I had to hack a bit since the entity origin is the middle of the cube |
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| 16:07 |
jas_ |
hello! |
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| 16:14 |
Xiong |
Has anyone a notion about technic cable plates? Just cosmetic? |
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| 16:49 |
Xiong |
I suspect there's a mod that allows liquid to flow through the visible gap between technic cable and the next node; but that's not standard. A player can fall through that gap but water doesn't. |
| 16:50 |
VanessaE |
well water is a node so it would be hacky as hell to do that |
| 16:50 |
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| 17:14 |
Xiong |
Hi VE! |
| 17:15 |
VanessaE |
hi |
| 17:16 |
Xiong |
Restarting with v6 met all my needs. Dunno if there's causation... maybe just bad luck for me a few times before |
| 17:16 |
VanessaE |
I blame it on black holes and witchcraft :P |
| 17:17 |
Xiong |
Ha, I came here and said generally how that fixed my issues and a couple people insisted v7 was okay |
| 17:19 |
Xiong |
I don't really care. The level of pseudorandomness in mt is such that few definite, general statements can be made about a given world. |
| 17:19 |
VanessaE |
yeah, the reason mainly is that v7 has its own perlin noise settings for heat and humidity, but biome_lib uses values consistent only with mgv6, so what biome_lib thinks is a desert-plains transition area might be in the middle of an ocean in reality |
| 17:19 |
VanessaE |
for example. |
| 17:22 |
Xiong |
Well dunno. I caught a rubber tree a mapblock away from 0,0,0 and sulfur's around. Good enough... and thanks, even if the science is broken. |
| 17:22 |
Xiong |
Ha, the PRNG god taxed me for answering my prayers |
| 17:23 |
VanessaE |
still waiting for someone to make the necessary adaptations for v7 :) |
| 17:23 |
Xiong |
... zinc snd chromium are scarce. |
| 17:25 |
Xiong |
It would be nifty if a genned world could be tested for playability... without playing it |
| 17:25 |
Xiong |
Very tricky that. |
| 17:26 |
Xiong |
Hey! While you're here... what's this with basic chests and furnaces and the little toggle? |
| 17:26 |
VanessaE |
? |
| 17:28 |
Xiong |
Must be a pipeworks thing. Similar looking toggle in autocrafter, just on-off (very nice, BTW). |
| 17:28 |
VanessaE |
you mean the split stacks switch? |
| 17:29 |
Xiong |
The text for chests and furnaces is unreadable on my phone but I checked your source. Yes, allow splitting stacks. |
| 17:30 |
VanessaE |
that just means if an itemstack is shoved into the chest via a tube, and there isn't room for the whole thing, it'll store what it can and split off the excess into a new stack and reject it back into the tube. |
| 17:30 |
VanessaE |
if disabled, the whole stack will be rejected. |
| 17:31 |
Xiong |
And I see (no fuel) in your code for furnace. So, toggle either way, furnace won't reload fuel until exhausted. |
| 17:32 |
VanessaE |
I don't remember how it works for furnaces |
| 17:32 |
Xiong |
No worries |
| 17:32 |
Xiong |
TIL... good enough. |
| 17:35 |
Xiong |
Also I noticed pipeworks can be configured to drop entities if they've circulated too long... by default. I turned that off. I have the game set to delete loose entities every 15 min, good for forest litter. Please tell me tube contents in motion won't get zapped? |
| 17:36 |
VanessaE |
afaik they won't, unless there's so many that a tube breaks. |
| 17:36 |
VanessaE |
then they'll "leak out" |
| 17:36 |
VanessaE |
at which point the engine will eventually delete them |
| 17:37 |
Xiong |
Well, a risk for every step we take. I disabled the intentional drop though |
| 17:38 |
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| 17:39 |
Xiong |
I worked out my basic pw strat years ago: Route all incoming stuff past rows of chests, sorting what matches; then back to the basement and recirculate |
| 17:40 |
VanessaE |
yep, that's pretty common |
| 17:41 |
Xiong |
The final stop before recirculation is a few anybody's chests, collect whatever missed. But just in case, recirculate. And plenty of vacuums. |
| 17:42 |
Xiong |
Ha, never imagined I was original. I'm an engineer. I skew hard to the middle of the road, the standard solution. |
| 17:43 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 17:43 |
Xiong |
Never specify a 1.2K resistor if a 1K will do. |
| 17:44 |
VanessaE |
your OCD will not forgive you for that! :) |
| 17:44 |
twoelk |
just out of interest, Xiong, did you ever publish the seed and settings for your world that lacked rubber trees? It might be of interest to others |
| 17:45 |
Xiong |
Mn no. But I didn't delete it... just abandoned. |
| 17:47 |
Xiong |
I'll... dunno, everything's illegal in Massachusetts. I mean Android. I'll see if I can dig out the seed, the mods, all the versions. |
| 17:48 |
Xiong |
Mn, don't wait on it. I'm still bailing after the last storm. |
| 17:52 |
Xiong |
Rubber wasn't the panic issue anyway. I gimmed one sapling and was okay. Man needs more cheat, doesn't deserve. But I could find no sulfur after serious look and then outright fly under cheat. If I have to stand in my workshop clicking UI for my sulfur, I might as well sit on the sidewalk next to my hat and a soggy scrap of cardboard. |
| 17:54 |
Xiong |
OH YEH THAT. I completely lost the thought. I have a couple simple ideas for UI; I'll post in that thread. |
| 17:56 |
rubenwardy |
VanessaE: why isn't the decoration system used when available? |
| 17:56 |
VanessaE |
because biome_lib was developed before the decoration system was created. |
| 17:56 |
VanessaE |
it needs adapted to use it |
| 17:56 |
rubenwardy |
I see |
| 17:56 |
Xiong |
UI is utterly essential for Android. Tricky splitting a stack. |
| 17:57 |
rubenwardy |
Well, it makes sense to adjust things to use the built-in system when available |
| 17:57 |
VanessaE |
indeed. PRs welcome :) |
| 17:58 |
Xiong |
Oh and I love the autocrafter improvements. The ghost items are the elegant robust solution. |
| 17:58 |
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| 18:23 |
p_gimeno |
I have a setup silverchest>grinder>furnace>goldchest (the > are stackwise injectors, no pipes involved). From time to time, ground material appears in the grinder's input. Is that normal? |
| 18:24 |
p_gimeno |
Obviously, we place no dust into the silver chest. |
| 18:27 |
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| 18:33 |
MinetestBot |
[git] juozaspo -> minetest/minetest: Fix Android build errors (caused by 5f1cd55) 94f2d99 https://git.io/fp6d3 (2018-12-03T18:31:20Z) |
| 18:37 |
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| 18:53 |
Xiong |
p_gimeno My unqualified opinion is that dust bounced. IME pipeworks is just a little susceptible to unexpected flow... tubes have no inherent direction, except for the oneway. |
| 18:54 |
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| 18:55 |
Xiong |
If the issue persists, my experiments would involve sticking a bit of tube before the last chest... and a branch. See what drops out |
| 18:57 |
Xiong |
Set up two collection chests. Does one remain always empty or do dust piles stray? Change the geometry. Tubes aren't like real conveyors; funky things must be expected. |
| 18:58 |
p_gimeno |
so, if it is taken from one of the outputs of the grinder to exit, and it bounces, it goes to the input? that's not too nice |
| 18:59 |
Xiong |
I have often had bounce issues. Sometimes the quick fix works: make a path for recirculation. |
| 18:59 |
Xiong |
Well, nothing goes into the output, right? |
| 19:00 |
p_gimeno |
in my mind, it's the output that's connected to the pipe, that's why it didn't make too much sense :) |
| 19:01 |
p_gimeno |
if it bounces, it should go back to the output, or if that's not possible, it should stay in the pipe |
| 19:01 |
Xiong |
Set up a simple tube layout... not too basic, a few corners, injector and chest. Stare at it while it runs |
| 19:01 |
p_gimeno |
that's the intuitive behaviour |
| 19:01 |
Xiong |
... see if you bouncing. |
| 19:02 |
p_gimeno |
would a one way pipe help in this case? |
| 19:02 |
Xiong |
But... the rule is... whatever comes in, goes into the input. |
| 19:02 |
Xiong |
I like oneways. Good insurance anytime. |
| 19:03 |
p_gimeno |
what makes a pipe blow out? |
| 19:04 |
Xiong |
But the bounce then rebounces off the oneway. Yes? So the robust setup adds a little pipe for recirculation |
| 19:05 |
p_gimeno |
I have not checked one way pipes yet |
| 19:06 |
Xiong |
I dunno. But I understand that the underlying mechanism is not robust. Entities are very basic original gimmicks. It's as if a god were responsible for making physics work... for each object, every millisecond. |
| 19:06 |
VanessaE |
p_gimeno: if more than 20 items/sec flow through a tube, that tube will be replaced with a broken tube and the items will leak out. it's a lag and low fps preventative. |
| 19:06 |
VanessaE |
s/items/stacks/ |
| 19:06 |
VanessaE |
(20 per sec, if I remember right) |
| 19:07 |
VanessaE |
because players have a tendency to build tube lines that have no input rate limits or proper overflow protection |
| 19:07 |
VanessaE |
so shit starts bouncing back and forth, stacking up |
| 19:07 |
Xiong |
I have seen entities fall through floors, accelerate, spin madly, and otherwise defy Newton. I'm impressed pipeworks works at all. |
| 19:07 |
VanessaE |
until there's like thousands flowing in a given tubeline |
| 19:08 |
VanessaE |
that's why I added the limiter |
| 19:09 |
p_gimeno |
thank you VanessaE |
| 19:09 |
VanessaE |
yw |
| 19:10 |
Xiong |
Yes, p_gimeno, really important to think it out. You slap a mesecons sig on an injector, the tube starts shooting blocks... and the tube destination can't accept them all. |
| 19:10 |
VanessaE |
yup |
| 19:11 |
VanessaE |
a tube breaks, they pour out, engine deletes them. |
| 19:11 |
Xiong |
I find a good way to tame a system is to divide the clock. Half speed may work fine. |
| 19:11 |
VanessaE |
Xiong: or, put a trash can at the very end of the tubeline |
| 19:11 |
VanessaE |
whatever can't be stored gets deleted. |
| 19:11 |
Xiong |
No! |
| 19:11 |
VanessaE |
good for machines that produce continuous output. |
| 19:12 |
Xiong |
That's my mese. Hands off. |
| 19:12 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 19:12 |
Xiong |
I told you, I disabled that drop setting. |
| 19:13 |
VanessaE |
broken tubes are a different matter, not the same as the pop-out settint |
| 19:13 |
VanessaE |
setting* |
| 19:14 |
Xiong |
I can live with diamonds missing until I dig them out of the alloy furnace. Do not want to watch as they skid on floor, out window, and to sea bottom. |
| 19:15 |
Xiong |
The setting is not a trash can, either. The only things in common are my miserliness and petty fears. |
| 19:18 |
Xiong |
But seriously p_gimeno... the cool thing about pipeworks-mesecons-technic is that they usually but not always work. You have an Opportunity to improve your troubleshooting skills. ;D |
| 19:19 |
p_gimeno |
just to be sure, do one-way tubes prevent bouncing? |
| 19:19 |
Xiong |
No. |
| 19:20 |
Xiong |
One ways make bounced items rebounce. |
| 19:20 |
p_gimeno |
?!? :/ |
| 19:20 |
p_gimeno |
ah, that's what I meant |
| 19:20 |
p_gimeno |
they prevent the item from going back to the original container, yes? |
| 19:20 |
Xiong |
IME. |
| 19:21 |
Xiong |
They also prevent your loot from teleporting back down. |
| 19:22 |
Xiong |
Plain tubes are bidirectional, after all. But the one-way is just insurance. Find the cause of the bottleneck. |
| 19:23 |
p_gimeno |
I think the cause is obvious in the above setup |
| 19:23 |
Xiong |
? |
| 19:24 |
Xiong |
I assume your chest isn't full. |
| 19:24 |
p_gimeno |
nah |
| 19:25 |
Xiong |
Well... let me get back to !work. |
| 19:27 |
p_gimeno |
the problem is that the furnace is still busy, and the grinder isn't filled back with an item (this happens right when the silver chest gets empty) |
| 19:27 |
p_gimeno |
so the furnace bounces the item back to the grinder, and when the grinder's slot is empty, this happens |
| 19:44 |
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| 21:15 |
Alexand{er|ra} |
I'm working on a mod, and I've got a couple issues. Any ideas? First, is seems that Minetest 0.4.17 and Minetest 5.0.0 create inventory cube images of differing size. So if I want to support 5.0.0, I need a way to detect which version of the game I'm running. Second, I need to add images to the HUD. I want them to display next to the mini map. However, the mini map's exact position doesn't seem to be |
| 21:15 |
Alexand{er|ra} |
knowable. I can get the HUD looking right for one window size, but then I change my window size and it breaks. Different players use different window sizes, so hard-coded positions don |
| 21:15 |
Alexand{er|ra} |
don't seem to work well. |
| 21:17 |
Alexand{er|ra} |
I've tried using position and I've tried using offset. Both break when the window size changes, due to the mini map seeming to use neither. |
| 21:24 |
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| 21:31 |
VanessaE |
Alexand{er|ra}: detecting the version is easy: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/hotbar/blob/master/init.lua#L1-2 |
| 21:31 |
rubenwardy |
that's a hack |
| 21:31 |
VanessaE |
yes, but it works. |
| 21:31 |
rubenwardy |
that's the exact reason why it took so long for such a method to be added |
| 21:33 |
VanessaE |
well, 5.0.0 does some thing differently than 0.4.x, that aren't detectable through other means (like the features thing), so what other way do you suggest? |
| 21:33 |
VanessaE |
things* |
| 21:33 |
Alexand{er|ra} |
Thank you, VanessaE! |
| 21:34 |
VanessaE |
and with 0.4.x being relegated to maintenance/bug-fix only, just checking if the user's not on 0.4.x is enough. |
| 21:34 |
Alexand{er|ra} |
Yeah, for sure. I didn't realise 5.0.0 was doing things differently until I tried running 0.1.17-based code on it. |
| 21:34 |
rubenwardy |
I guess it's good enough |
| 21:34 |
rubenwardy |
however, make sure to support higher major versions |
| 21:34 |
VanessaE |
look at the code. |
| 21:35 |
rubenwardy |
something like :sub(1,2) ~= "0." would be best |
| 21:35 |
VanessaE |
it's "is not 0.4.", not "is 5.0.0" |
| 21:35 |
rubenwardy |
right |
| 21:35 |
rubenwardy |
btw, you can do this: (mtver.string:sub(1, 4) ~= "0.4.") and 32 or 23 |
| 21:35 |
MinetestBot |
[git] stujones11 -> minetest/minetest: Re-master and improve touchscreen gui icons (#7931) 48208c1 https://git.io/fpiLT (2018-12-03T21:35:31Z) |
| 21:36 |
p_gimeno |
damn Vanessa, I can't use your mod with 0.3 :) |
| 21:36 |
VanessaE |
rubenwardy: yeah, I know. but figured I should cache the version info in fact I need it somewhere else. call it habit :) |
| 21:36 |
rubenwardy |
huh? |
| 21:36 |
Alexand{er|ra} |
Oh, there's a minetest.get_version()? Now I feel foolish. |
| 21:36 |
rubenwardy |
my suggestion is equivalent to yours, just better formed |
| 21:37 |
VanessaE |
oh nevermind-- I was reading it wrong |
| 21:37 |
VanessaE |
yeah s:sub() vs string.sub(s...) |
| 21:37 |
rubenwardy |
https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/9864071eedc3b5fb2224937005de48c4 |
| 21:37 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 21:37 |
VanessaE |
also habit. |
| 21:37 |
rubenwardy |
oops, update |
| 21:39 |
p_gimeno |
I did this some time ago, to get a code-friendly version number: https://notabug.org/pgimeno/Gists/src/minetest--generate-version-number/version_check_snippet.lua |
| 21:43 |
Alexand{er|ra} |
Okay, this now works in 0.4.17 and 5.0.0-dev, at least when using their respective window sizes. Now I just need to figure out how to properly position things around the mini map. |
| 21:44 |
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