| Time |
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Message |
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| 01:47 |
MinetestBot |
[git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: Menu content tab: Fix clipped description and missing depends (#7703) 6ed9c6f https://git.io/fAzcn (2018-09-07T01:46:58Z) |
| 02:00 |
Quiark |
is it possible to reload Lua mod while minetest is still running? for faster test cycle |
| 02:02 |
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| 02:02 |
Nic_Wow |
hia |
| 02:02 |
Nic_Wow |
Have any of you considered using RIOT instead of IRC for chat?? |
| 02:04 |
Quiark |
there is Minetest room on matrix.org |
| 02:14 |
Nic_Wow |
ohhhhhhhhhhhhh |
| 02:16 |
Nic_Wow |
when you click "community" on "minetest.net" it just has "Overview", "Forum", "Wiki", "IRC", "Subreddit", "Contributor" and, "Server list" |
| 02:19 |
Nic_Wow |
@Quiark would you mind sending me the URl? |
| 02:20 |
Quiark |
uh, my client doesn't display it but you should be able to find it easily ... also the room is quiet most of the time |
| 02:21 |
Nic_Wow |
I couldn't fin it :/ |
| 02:21 |
Nic_Wow |
Where would I find it? |
| 02:22 |
Quiark |
#minetest-matrix:matrix.org |
| 02:35 |
ChimneySwift |
IRC is the official chat for minetest |
| 02:36 |
ChimneySwift |
also I don't think it's possible to reload a mod at runtime since they all share the same namespace |
| 02:36 |
ChimneySwift |
not at runtime, while running |
| 02:38 |
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| 03:07 |
aidalgol |
Wouldn't it make more sense to just use a Matrix<->IRC bridge instead of creating yet another chat room? |
| 03:08 |
ChimneySwift |
it would, but I don't think the devs would want a bridge on the channel |
| 03:09 |
aidalgol |
You already can join this channel via a bridge. It's completely transparent. |
| 03:09 |
ChimneySwift |
it's not like they're official channels anyway |
| 03:09 |
aidalgol |
I'm using IRC right now via Matrix. |
| 03:09 |
ChimneySwift |
you could, but sending messages from there to here is the issue |
| 03:10 |
ChimneySwift |
you can't change nicks on the fly like that, so it looks ugly |
| 03:10 |
ChimneySwift |
and it really isn't hard to just join irc if ya need some help n |
| 03:11 |
ChimneySwift |
:p |
| 03:11 |
aidalgol |
I haven't had any issues. |
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Quiark |
too bad it can't reload the code. Any tips for efficient dev/test cycle? |
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ChimneySwift |
Quiark: I just reload the game a lot lol |
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ANAND |
Quiark: Using minimal instead of MTG would help with loading the game faster. You'd still have to keep restarting the game though :) |
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| 13:51 |
deltasquared |
what would be the recommended way to build minetest from sources with debug symbols? I did a build of master but the profiling thing I'm doing (based on perf record) is giving me several blocks of [unknown] still |
| 13:52 |
deltasquared |
I did try export CFLAGS="-g" beforehand, not sure if that is sufficient |
| 13:52 |
calcul0n |
i'd try -g -O0 |
| 13:53 |
deltasquared |
(it's a "flame graph", wanted to know what was being slow for something I was doing - the current output can be seen here: https://ptpb.pw/CCRI.svg ) |
| 13:53 |
calcul0n |
ho well, that's the default, not sure it will change anything :) |
| 13:54 |
deltasquared |
gcc man page suggests -Og for some optimisations but better debugging, so I'll play around with it a bit. |
| 13:55 |
deltasquared |
... |
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| 13:55 |
deltasquared |
hmm, why isn't it... bah. rm -rf and retry |
| 13:55 |
deltasquared |
there we go. |
| 13:55 |
deltasquared |
aaaaand wait another ten minutes. |
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| 14:14 |
deltasquared |
ok, still having difficulties here, even after compiling with CFLAGS="-g -Og" and verifying the options were set in the build files. https://github.com/brendangregg/FlameGraph is the tool I was using, capture data was via "perf record -F 100 -g -p $minetest_pid". it still seems to be showing blocks of "unknown" - https://ptpb.pw/5Dsk.svg - might this be due to something going on in lua? (but then that doesn't seem right, there's some |
| 14:14 |
deltasquared |
irrlicht stuff going on called by the big "[unknown]" block in turn called by the "minetest" block at the bottom) |
| 14:16 |
deltasquared |
would anyone be capable of assisting me with debugging of these prolifer attempts? all I wanted to see was what was causing everything to slow down in a particular use case... |
| 14:28 |
Ingar |
dependencies that don't have debug code ? |
| 14:28 |
Ingar |
I was goign to ask nvidia, but I see intel libs ;) |
| 14:31 |
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| 14:33 |
rubenwardy |
The width is time |
| 14:33 |
rubenwardy |
Having tall things isn't an issue as long as they're not wide |
| 14:33 |
rubenwardy |
So you want to reduce the width of things |
| 14:33 |
deltasquared |
Ingar: it's possible, I guess. i965_dri.so is def. there... maybe that's in mesa code, though I'd expect there to be intervening stack frames between "minetest" and the calls to the driver module |
| 14:33 |
deltasquared |
rubenwardy: yeah I'm aware |
| 14:33 |
rubenwardy |
That being said, tall things run the risk of stack overflow |
| 14:33 |
rubenwardy |
And are probably inefficient maybe |
| 14:33 |
rubenwardy |
But heh |
| 14:34 |
rubenwardy |
Oh wait |
| 14:34 |
rubenwardy |
Nevermind, misunderstood |
| 14:34 |
deltasquared |
rubenwardy: can you see the [unknown] blocks? I'm trying to figure out what those might be |
| 14:35 |
deltasquared |
apparently this is more to do with the "perf record" invocation, as flamegraph isn't doing anything with those, just leaving them be |
| 14:35 |
deltasquared |
I did try doing a record using dwarf debugging info for stack frames, but the resulting data file is now causing "perf script" to core dump :/ |
| 14:36 |
deltasquared |
... and "perf report" it looks like.... maybe I'll just turn down the sample interval a bit |
| 14:36 |
deltasquared |
(I would have thought 100hz wouldn't have been fatal, but oh well) |
| 14:36 |
deltasquared |
(no, it's not an OOM condition AFAICT) |
| 14:38 |
deltasquared |
... ok, that seems to have worked, going to have another look now |
| 14:39 |
deltasquared |
... ah, that's a lot different. https://ptpb.pw/P6yI.svg |
| 14:39 |
deltasquared |
LAWL there's a function called the_game |
| 14:42 |
deltasquared |
hmm, that doesn't actually tell a lot, still a lot of time spend in the driver. hrm |
| 14:44 |
deltasquared |
see that's still a bit annoying because it's not telling me what's going on inside the driver >_> |
| 14:45 |
deltasquared |
for disclosure's sake, I'm currently trying to obtain some empirical data showing why drawing lots of entities (literally, only the cube drawtype atm, so only what 12 tris per entity?) would bring my FPS to a crawl |
| 14:46 |
deltasquared |
counters and stuff in game show it's somewhere in the region of 600 in that area of the world atm and my FPS drops to about 6. which is unfortunate for me because it's kinda central to my use case... |
| 14:47 |
deltasquared |
intuition tells me most systems should handle 7,200 triangles per frame quite easily, so I would assume there is something else going on. |
| 14:47 |
deltasquared |
I have a hunch what it might be, but simply looking at the profiler output from outside hasn't really confirmed nor denied it yet |
| 14:49 |
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| 14:51 |
deltasquared |
all of this is boiling down to: minetest is slow in this particular case, it is seemingly illogical why it should be, and I want to try and help fix it. |
| 14:51 |
rubenwardy |
also |
| 14:51 |
rubenwardy |
-DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug |
| 14:51 |
rubenwardy |
for debug flags |
| 14:52 |
deltasquared |
rubenwardy: cheers, I didn't think a release build would be the default, but I will remember that one |
| 14:54 |
sfan5 |
deltasquared: are you using luajit? that code cannot be profiled |
| 14:58 |
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| 15:00 |
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| 15:01 |
rubenwardy |
what even is that svg file |
| 15:01 |
rubenwardy |
how is it interactive |
| 15:01 |
rubenwardy |
whaaat |
| 15:01 |
deltasquared |
rubenwardy: javascript can go in svg, apparently |
| 15:01 |
deltasquared |
don't look at me, I just ran the generator! :P |
| 15:01 |
deltasquared |
again, it's https://github.com/brendangregg/FlameGraph |
| 15:02 |
deltasquared |
it is cool though, no? |
| 15:04 |
rubenwardy |
do you have a specific issue you're trying to find the cause of? |
| 15:05 |
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| 15:06 |
deltasquared |
rubenwardy: yeah, why drawing hundreds of entities with really simple meshes (namely, the cube visual) is so dang S L O W |
| 15:06 |
deltasquared |
my intuition and (admittedly limited) 3D graphics knowledge is telling me this should not be so |
| 15:06 |
rubenwardy |
try the entity PR |
| 15:07 |
deltasquared |
link? |
| 15:07 |
deltasquared |
*opening browser, gis sec* |
| 15:09 |
rubenwardy |
can't find it |
| 15:09 |
rubenwardy |
here we are: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6803 |
| 15:09 |
rubenwardy |
I'm not sure this applies here though |
| 15:09 |
rubenwardy |
as it's a cube |
| 15:13 |
deltasquared |
rubenwardy: doesn't look like it - it seems to be more changing the mesh up for items as opposed to idk how they're issued for drawing |
| 15:13 |
rubenwardy |
well, idk |
| 15:13 |
deltasquared |
nor do I >_> |
| 15:14 |
rubenwardy |
it's probably doing individual draw calls |
| 15:14 |
deltasquared |
OOF |
| 15:14 |
deltasquared |
I'd have to look into that. (diving into irrlicht too? how fun) |
| 15:15 |
deltasquared |
though from what I've heard around the internets, a drawcall per entity, if that were the case, could be a very viable explaination |
| 15:18 |
Hijiri |
shouldn't hundreds of drawcalls be not crippling either |
| 15:18 |
Hijiri |
especially if it's not doing a lot of state changes between them |
| 15:19 |
deltasquared |
Hijiri: the possibility of state changes being done by say irrlicht is bothering me, hence why I feel the need to go on a source code dive. |
| 15:19 |
deltasquared |
superfluous state changes, that is |
| 15:19 |
Hijiri |
you could also use apitrace |
| 15:20 |
deltasquared |
Hijiri: hmm? |
| 15:20 |
Hijiri |
it's a OpenGL debugging tool that will trace all the openGL library calls that happen during a program's executino |
| 15:20 |
Hijiri |
sometimes it's hard to read but it will show every OpenGL thing that happens |
| 15:21 |
Hijiri |
so if you can see the state switching in there you might be able to confirm it before having to dive in the source code |
| 15:21 |
deltasquared |
however, I do feel you are right, it's not like we can currently set custom shaders for entities, therefore it *should* be possible to arrange all the vertices of all visible entities into a single batch and chuck that in one go. (though, it does raise the question... does irrlicht set a translation uniform for instance... yeah I had better have a look at that apitrace thing) |
| 15:21 |
Hijiri |
I didn't say that |
| 15:21 |
Hijiri |
I said that one draw call per entity shouldn't be so bad as to reduce FPS to 6 |
| 15:22 |
Hijiri |
as long as context switching isn't happening between |
| 15:22 |
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| 15:22 |
Hijiri |
arranging all the vertices together would probably reduce performance because you would need to send the vertices to the GPU every frame |
| 15:23 |
Hijiri |
deltasquared: are these hundreds of entities collidable? |
| 15:23 |
Hijiri |
I've never had performance problems from using pipeworks with a lot of "item position marker" entities floating around the pipes |
| 15:24 |
Hijiri |
However if it's a lot of collidable entities, it could be slowing Minetest down because of how entity collisions are calculated |
| 15:25 |
sovetskiy |
rubenwardy, do work with entities described in your modding book? |
| 15:28 |
Hijiri |
deltasquared: entity collision checking is very slow if you have lots of entities that can collide with other entities |
| 15:28 |
Hijiri |
If those entities are collidable I would set them to not be collidable and see if they still cause FPS drop |
| 15:29 |
deltasquared |
Hijiri: I'll try that actually, they are collide-able (that is somewhat the point of my use case, but very well might as well give it a try) |
| 15:31 |
deltasquared |
Hijiri: ... no change. setting entity property defaults to physical = false / collides_with_objects = false, but still the same |
| 15:32 |
Hijiri |
ok, I guess it's not that then |
| 15:32 |
Hijiri |
that's weird though, because I haven't seen the same problems with lots of entities |
| 15:32 |
MinetestBot |
[git] numberZero -> minetest-mods/mesecons: Remove tiny (+0.001) selection box oversize a4f5ae5 https://git.io/fAgsh (2018-09-07T15:31:49Z) |
| 15:32 |
MinetestBot |
[git] numberZero -> minetest-mods/mesecons: Make insulated wires’ selection box fit in the node 9e6eac4 https://git.io/fAgsj (2018-09-07T15:31:49Z) |
| 15:32 |
Hijiri |
you could open a github issue, including your hardware and graphics settings if not the default |
| 15:33 |
Hijiri |
and maybe a test mod |
| 15:34 |
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| 15:34 |
deltasquared |
Hijiri: hah, test mod, I can show you if you want, it's actually something I'm working on atm |
| 15:34 |
deltasquared |
I have a test server with it on. would you like to see? (just so everyone doesn't know I'm mad >_>) |
| 15:35 |
deltasquared |
err s/know/think/ |
| 15:35 |
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| 15:35 |
Hijiri |
ok, sure |
| 15:35 |
deltasquared |
give me a sec, updating it |
| 15:36 |
Hijiri |
unless the problem is obviously your fault though, I would still open a github issue |
| 15:36 |
Hijiri |
I don't know if I'll be able to tell what's wrong just by looking |
| 15:36 |
deltasquared |
Hijiri: daconcepts.com 33000 |
| 15:36 |
deltasquared |
Hijiri: and yes I will consider that |
| 15:37 |
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Jhalman |
##minetest_ctf |
| 15:40 |
Jhalman |
join ##minetest_ctf |
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| 15:46 |
deltasquared |
Hijiri: can you come back? I goofed with the lua command. that was slightly *too* many of them. |
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| 15:51 |
Hijiri |
deltasquared: sorry, had to leave the game |
| 15:51 |
Hijiri |
I'm at work currently |
| 15:52 |
deltasquared |
Hijiri: 's fine |
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deltasquared |
Hijiri: guess I'll prepare a minimal test case for the github issue then |
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| 22:52 |
NicWow |
so what I say here shows up in game |
| 22:52 |
NicWow |
(wrong chat)) |
| 22:52 |
sfan5 |
what |
| 22:53 |
Hijiri |
probably thought this was an IRC channel bridged with a minetest server? |
| 22:54 |
piesquared |
No, he is on a different channel thats bridged. |
| 22:56 |
Hijiri |
I mean that he thought that this channel was that channel |
| 23:07 |
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| 23:18 |
NicWow |
out of curiosity, do can you make an afk fish farm in Minetest (I played minecraft years ago) |
| 23:25 |
Jordach |
no |
| 23:25 |
Jordach |
there is no fishing |
| 23:31 |
calcul0n |
there are some fishing mods, but afaik none let you farm them |
| 23:32 |
calcul0n |
i mean you must fish by hand |
| 23:39 |
MinetestBot |
[git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Particles: Make collision with objects optional (#7682) 766fb7b https://git.io/fAgx5 (2018-09-07T23:38:35Z) |
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| 23:55 |
paramat |
there's no fishing in minetest game, but a mod could do it, or a different game |
