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| 03:47 |
ANAND |
Greetings! How does listring actually work? Can I "connect" (for the lack of a better word) more than two lists using listring? |
| 03:52 |
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| 04:06 |
Ruslan1 |
ANAND: have you play blocky survival |
| 04:09 |
ANAND |
no I haven't |
| 04:10 |
Ruslan1 |
Can you join it |
| 04:10 |
ANAND |
Right now, I can't. I'm busy with my exams :) |
| 04:22 |
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| 04:36 |
happysmash27 |
Hello, my account at vmail.me doesn't seem to be recieving the activation email? |
| 04:37 |
happysmash27 |
I actually stopped using that email quite a while ago because it closed down, but it appears that the recieving of email still works, at least for some things. |
| 04:37 |
ANAND |
Hello happysmash27, have you also checked your spam / junk folder? |
| 04:37 |
happysmash27 |
The problem is that I appeared to have attempted to make an account there a while ago, and now I am trying to log in. |
| 04:38 |
happysmash27 |
I'll try, but usually nothing gets there. |
| 04:38 |
happysmash27 |
Yes, still absolutely nothing. |
| 04:39 |
ANAND |
Did you try re-sending the activation email? |
| 04:39 |
happysmash27 |
I'll try sending an email from my new email address just to make sure that vmail hasn't shut down completely. |
| 04:39 |
happysmash27 |
Yes, I did. |
| 04:40 |
happysmash27 |
Okay, it's actually not getting my new email either :/ |
| 04:41 |
happysmash27 |
I'm going to try restarting the backend of my email client. |
| 04:49 |
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| 04:52 |
happysmash27 |
Oh, lol, my mailbox is full. That explains it. |
| 04:52 |
ANAND |
;) |
| 04:55 |
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| 04:59 |
happysmash27 |
Hey, now *my* emails are coming in! Now I just have to make sure that those of minetest.net work. |
| 04:59 |
happysmash27 |
Oh, it does. I wonder why it didn't work before... |
| 05:02 |
happysmash27 |
Ah, finally, it works. I don't know why it didn't before... Anyway, thanks, and bye! |
| 05:03 |
ANAND |
Good luck |
| 05:04 |
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| 05:59 |
ANAND |
I'm seem to have understood more about listring, but I still can't understand why I'm unable to shift-click items from one list to another... |
| 05:59 |
ANAND |
I've also figured out that having three listring elements in the same formspec is a bad idea.. :P |
| 06:03 |
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| 06:05 |
ANAND |
I end up being able to shift-click between the second and third list only |
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| 08:28 |
andirc8000 |
with signs_lib can I put a sign flat on the ground and have something written on it? (e.g. hollywood walk of fame - style) (b/c w/signs_lib mod loaded when I put a 'metal sign' on the ground, the writing on it doesn't seem to appear) |
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| 09:20 |
VanessaE |
andirc8000: that is not supported in signs_libn |
| 09:20 |
VanessaE |
-n |
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| 11:26 |
andirc8000 |
VanessaE: Why the difference: https://imgur.com/a/q3wqtHZ? |
| 11:26 |
andirc8000 |
is it by design? |
| 11:31 |
entuland |
andirc8000, I know you're asking her but I'm not sure I get your question... you mean why one gets placed vertically (the wooden one) and the other horizontally (stone / steel one perhaps?) |
| 11:32 |
andirc8000 |
entuland: why 'ABCD 1' displays on the pole sign but doesn't display on the 'laying sign' ('ABCD 1' it's written on both of them) |
| 11:32 |
entuland |
uhm |
| 11:33 |
entuland |
look on the left, it seems to be displaced |
| 11:33 |
entuland |
near the tree |
| 11:33 |
entuland |
or is that a caption that is meant to be there? |
| 11:34 |
entuland |
yep, probably the thingie that appears when you point at something |
| 11:34 |
andirc8000 |
entuland: yeah that is the description that only appears when I 'point to the sign' though the 'pole sign' 's description appears always regardless whether I pointed to it or not |
| 11:34 |
entuland |
I see |
| 11:34 |
entuland |
now I get the point :) |
| 11:51 |
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| 11:53 |
VanessaE |
andirc8000: because the text is displayed using an entity, and they can only yaw, then cannot pitch up/down. |
| 11:54 |
VanessaE |
it would be a somewhat trivial change to create an entity for a sign laying down, but I leave that stuff up to kaeza. |
| 11:54 |
VanessaE |
(it's more his mod than mine) |
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| 11:58 |
VanessaE |
now as for the sign becoming a sign on a thin post, that IS by design. you can put a wooden sign on a wall and then screwdriver it to put it on the ground if you want, but it won't display text in that orientation. |
| 11:59 |
VanessaE |
(similar with the hanging-from-ceiling wooden sign vs a flat sign on the ceiling) |
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Jolla_Sailfish |
hi |
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Sailor2691 |
hi |
| 13:58 |
Sailor2691 |
hi minetest sam |
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| 16:25 |
Wuzzy2 |
Fixer: hi |
| 16:26 |
Wuzzy2 |
i think redstone was in 1.0 too |
| 16:26 |
Fixer |
Wuzzy2: redstone was since alpha |
| 16:26 |
Fixer |
Wuzzy2: but more things added since |
| 16:26 |
Fixer |
Wuzzy2: like pistons/sticky pistons/hoppers/redstone update |
| 16:27 |
Wuzzy2 |
its not really the redstone which is so special imo. its more bout mechanics |
| 16:27 |
Wuzzy2 |
actually i think some redstone mechanics are just lame. like no vertical redstone. DAFUQ? |
| 16:27 |
Wuzzy2 |
maybe i will add something like that, just because |
| 16:28 |
Wuzzy2 |
and i think mesecons does some things right which redstone does wrong |
| 16:28 |
Wuzzy2 |
anyway, i dont like obsession about mtg only because its default. that has never helped. |
| 16:28 |
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| 16:29 |
Wuzzy2 |
Fixer, it completely agree its a complete nightmere getting anything accepted in MTG |
| 16:29 |
Fixer |
Wuzzy2: or emulate redstone fully like in MC |
| 16:29 |
Wuzzy2 |
and if somethign is accepted its really baby steps |
| 16:29 |
Wuzzy2 |
anything major and its pretty much impossible, unless yuo're a core dev. wait, not even then... |
| 16:30 |
Wuzzy2 |
i dont think you need to emulate redstone / mesecons to make a nice game. |
| 16:30 |
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| 16:31 |
Wuzzy2 |
its simply a different focus. e.g. if you have a strong survival focus in the game, complicated mechanisms might be even counter-productive to the flow of the game |
| 16:31 |
Wuzzy2 |
^ mechanisms = redstone = mesecons |
| 16:35 |
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| 16:37 |
Fixer |
Wuzzy2: i agree, but then it is not a clone |
| 16:37 |
Wuzzy2 |
i was talking about games in general, not MCL2 |
| 16:38 |
Wuzzy2 |
well i have given up on creating a 100% perfect clone long ago anyway. that's not really desirable anyway |
| 16:38 |
Wuzzy2 |
the current philosohpy is more like “clone as good i reasonably can, given the Minetest engine†|
| 16:38 |
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| 16:38 |
Wuzzy2 |
and “ignore arbitrary technical restrictions†(like height limit) |
| 16:39 |
Fixer |
Wuzzy2: my impression is: minetest had such success due to celeron55 initial hard work to make it useable/playable during hype times of mc beta |
| 16:39 |
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| 16:39 |
Wuzzy2 |
so? |
| 16:39 |
Fixer |
Wuzzy2: however, I feel some game aspects deserved more attention during his era (usual example is carts) |
| 16:40 |
Fixer |
Wuzzy2: continuing that MTG part ^^ |
| 16:40 |
Wuzzy2 |
mtg is not a faithful clone and never will be |
| 16:40 |
Fixer |
agreed |
| 16:40 |
Wuzzy2 |
carts are even in mtg now, what's your point? |
| 16:40 |
Wuzzy2 |
carts in mcl2 arent that great currently |
| 16:40 |
Fixer |
you missed my point, I wanted to finish my MTG disc part from -dev |
| 16:41 |
Wuzzy2 |
rails are really WTF in Minecraft... |
| 16:41 |
Wuzzy2 |
oh |
| 16:41 |
Fixer |
Wuzzy2: but I have hopes for MCL2 |
| 16:41 |
Fixer |
it is hard to move away people from MTG to new games |
| 16:42 |
Fixer |
heck, you can't move people out of that v6 mapgen |
| 16:42 |
Wuzzy2 |
thats not a problem, mcl2 also supports v6 perfectly and i will continue to support it because why not? its low hanging fruit |
| 16:43 |
Wuzzy2 |
Fixer, maybe this problem will disappear when Content DB goes live |
| 16:43 |
Wuzzy2 |
i mean *seriously* goes live |
| 16:43 |
Wuzzy2 |
not just homepage |
| 16:44 |
Wuzzy2 |
but its strange the game feature is not used more |
| 16:44 |
Wuzzy2 |
games are WAY easier to install than mods. you don have dependency hell |
| 16:44 |
Wuzzy2 |
games just work (TM) |
| 16:44 |
Fixer |
btw, it seems minetest 0.5.0 release is syncronized with CDDA 0.D release :} |
| 16:45 |
Wuzzy2 |
wow do you have a magic crystal ball and can predict release dates? i am impressed |
| 16:45 |
Fixer |
yeah, those releases are all too late |
| 16:45 |
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| 16:47 |
Wuzzy2 |
missing game adoption is also probably failure of marketing |
| 16:47 |
Wuzzy2 |
homepage still sucks, newbiews are doomed to think Minetest = Minetest Game |
| 16:47 |
Wuzzy2 |
or that Minetest Game is the only game |
| 16:47 |
Wuzzy2 |
all screenshots on minetest.net are minetest game-only. terrible marketing |
| 16:48 |
Fixer |
newbies compare it with minecraft |
| 16:48 |
Fixer |
I also did |
| 16:48 |
sfan5 |
since minetest game sucks so much, surely there's a game that's a thousand times better? |
| 16:48 |
Fixer |
in 2011 I had mc beta 1.5 and minetest 0.2.2011, both kinda worked, but minetest was FOSS and religion got in a way, you know the drill |
| 16:49 |
Fixer |
i already seen rails in 2011, so wth, went with minetest |
| 16:49 |
Wuzzy2 |
sfan5, a lot fo things suck, some things just suck less :) |
| 16:49 |
Fixer |
meanwhile, proper carts arrived 6 years later |
| 16:49 |
Wuzzy2 |
anyway, comparing with MTG, yes, there are many games beating it |
| 16:49 |
Wuzzy2 |
i would say "Inside The Box" but this does not count |
| 16:49 |
Wuzzy2 |
as its only a server |
| 16:49 |
sfan5 |
can you name those "many games"? |
| 16:50 |
sfan5 |
are they ready for inclusion within releases? |
| 16:50 |
sfan5 |
if not, then stop whining about it |
| 16:50 |
Wuzzy2 |
Pixture was also nice in older versions, if it weren't for the fact the crafting has been pointlessly ruined |
| 16:50 |
Wuzzy2 |
rpgtest is nice, but needs a bit of polishing |
| 16:50 |
Fixer |
sfan5: everyone just uses MTG + mods to make it minecraft like, like it is a big secret :D |
| 16:51 |
sfan5 |
also |
| 16:51 |
sfan5 |
>it has no vision, no project goal (these are the biggest problems), is neither good or polished, or balaneced, gets boring way befroe the 6 hour mark, and if development is baby steps |
| 16:51 |
Fixer |
and "minecraft beta 1.7.3 released" sign on minetest world in 2011 also is very suggestive |
| 16:51 |
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| 16:51 |
Wuzzy2 |
i would say mineclone 2 is in a playable state since a long time and easily beeds mtg hands down, but also needs polishing and bugfixnig |
| 16:51 |
Wuzzy2 |
beats* |
| 16:51 |
sfan5 |
do the games you just mentioned satisfy all of those points? |
| 16:51 |
Fixer |
Wuzzy2: only part I dislike is name of MCL2 |
| 16:52 |
Wuzzy2 |
basically, to beat mtg you only need to do one thing: include a crafting guide |
| 16:52 |
Wuzzy2 |
that single feature already beats mtg by a factor of 1000000 |
| 16:52 |
sfan5 |
lmao |
| 16:52 |
Wuzzy2 |
:) |
| 16:52 |
Wuzzy2 |
seriously i dont get it. why does mtg still not have a crafting guide? |
| 16:52 |
Fixer |
sfan5: default MCL offers way more than default Minetest, I guess |
| 16:52 |
sfan5 |
you hold mtg to extensive standard, but then you say "oh just include this one thing and it will be better" |
| 16:53 |
Wuzzy2 |
this was just toungue in cheek |
| 16:53 |
Wuzzy2 |
but i also like to stress how freaking important a craft guide is. also, pretty much every game has one, mtg is the odd one |
| 16:53 |
sfan5 |
can you name a single game with a vision, project goal, that is good, polished, balanced and doesn't get boring after 6 hours? |
| 16:53 |
Fixer |
what MTG offers? blocks, simple farming and tools, you can start building a house and a farm, game finished :D |
| 16:53 |
sfan5 |
can you? |
| 16:54 |
Wuzzy2 |
Pixture, BEFORE crafting was broken |
| 16:54 |
Fixer |
and ofc it has rails, this is serious point btw, you can at least be busy and constract damn railroad |
| 16:54 |
sfan5 |
last updated 2017, meh |
| 16:54 |
Wuzzy2 |
sfan5: active development was not one of the criteria =) |
| 16:55 |
sfan5 |
it was actually, I did not copy-paste that part |
| 16:55 |
sfan5 |
<Wuzzy2> [off] mtg does not deserve to be default. it has no vision, [...] and if development is baby steps |
| 16:55 |
sfan5 |
either way, since there is no "better" game than mtg, you are just pointlessly whining about it |
| 16:55 |
Wuzzy2 |
sfan5, even if there isn't such a game, that would not invalidate my criticism |
| 16:55 |
sfan5 |
of course not |
| 16:55 |
Fixer |
some may say minecraft can be boring, if you are a simple folk - yes, but if you are a redstone/farming/contraption guy - it is immense |
| 16:55 |
Wuzzy2 |
also, there really are better games... gosh |
| 16:55 |
sfan5 |
but you keep saying how mtg sucks as if there was something better |
| 16:56 |
sfan5 |
but there is nothing better ready to be included with releases |
| 16:56 |
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| 16:56 |
Wuzzy2 |
Inside The Box... except its not downloadable *cries heavily* |
| 16:56 |
sfan5 |
i am specifically referring to the "mtg does not deserve to be default" point |
| 16:56 |
Fixer |
Wuzzy2: Work harder, soldier! So they can include! |
| 16:56 |
sfan5 |
it does not deserve to be default, then what does? |
| 16:56 |
sfan5 |
that's right nothing does |
| 16:56 |
sfan5 |
because all other games suck too |
| 16:56 |
Fixer |
rough citation from BF1942 |
| 16:56 |
Wuzzy2 |
they suck less :) |
| 16:56 |
sfan5 |
see above |
| 16:57 |
Wuzzy2 |
lord of the test ... maybe? |
| 16:57 |
VanessaE |
make dreambuilder the default ;) |
| 16:57 |
Fixer |
Tutorial game by Wuzzy |
| 16:57 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: nooOOOOOOOOOO OOM |
| 16:57 |
VanessaE |
haha |
| 16:57 |
Wuzzy2 |
i think many games fail in one crucial aspect which is polishing |
| 16:57 |
Wuzzy2 |
mineclone 2 included |
| 16:58 |
Wuzzy2 |
sfan5, TBH I think Pixture would be an excellent choice for default, only the crafting system needs to be repaired |
| 16:58 |
Wuzzy2 |
i mean gameplay-wise |
| 16:58 |
Fixer |
what is worrying me is whole MTG, look at the tools, they give you pretty uneasy feel, pokerfeel, then look at new ores added, dilemmas everywhere |
| 16:58 |
Wuzzy2 |
its relatively simple (maybe even simpler than MTG) but gets atmosphere very well right |
| 16:58 |
sfan5 |
LOTT looks pretty good, what is the authors opinion on including it in MT? |
| 16:59 |
Wuzzy2 |
idk |
| 16:59 |
Wuzzy2 |
LOTT had one major game-breaker the last time i looked at it which is potions |
| 16:59 |
sfan5 |
Wuzzy2: can't comment on that, but the fact that pixture has not reached 1.0 and the releases are marked "pre-release" on github kinda of makes it unripe for inclusion |
| 16:59 |
Fixer |
sfan5: i hope it is not trully Tolkien related, Tolkien related stuff is very DMCA abused, warned you |
| 16:59 |
Wuzzy2 |
if you drink more than 2 potions than the status effects go completely crazy |
| 16:59 |
Fixer |
everything tolkien related is no go |
| 16:59 |
Fixer |
even obscure roguelikes got DMCA for that |
| 16:59 |
Raven262 |
Fixer is right, LOTT doesn't want to attract attention this way. |
| 16:59 |
sfan5 |
also regarding being the default: I doubt the dev team would agree to make anything other than MTG the default |
| 17:00 |
Wuzzy2 |
that does not meant you cant have things like elves or orks |
| 17:00 |
Fixer |
Wuzzy2: yeah, you can, just rebrand it |
| 17:00 |
Wuzzy2 |
i believe DMCA complaints can be dropped into the trashbin if you do not live in US |
| 17:00 |
Fixer |
Tolkien guys are very serious about intellectual rights |
| 17:00 |
Wuzzy2 |
yes, but even they have limited power |
| 17:01 |
Wuzzy2 |
its important to know the scope of copyright |
| 17:01 |
Fixer |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien_Estate |
| 17:01 |
sfan5 |
Wuzzy2: legally, yes; effectively, no |
| 17:01 |
Wuzzy2 |
it is dangerous to rather not even try to release something because you are confused about copyright. know your rights |
| 17:01 |
Wuzzy2 |
sfan5, this. |
| 17:02 |
sfan5 |
wanting to ignore dmca would mean your game/software/whatever can not have any presence on anything related to an US company |
| 17:02 |
Fixer |
TOME was DMCA by them, development was halted |
| 17:02 |
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| 17:02 |
Fixer |
and guy was from italy or smth |
| 17:02 |
Wuzzy2 |
that does not mean it was legit |
| 17:03 |
Wuzzy2 |
this self-censorship is a dangerous attitude which only helps the powerful |
| 17:03 |
Wuzzy2 |
at least dont try to be holier than the pope |
| 17:03 |
Wuzzy2 |
thats all im saying |
| 17:04 |
Wuzzy2 |
also its not copyright infringement if you just include orks as characters. this is too generic |
| 17:04 |
Wuzzy2 |
the fact that development was halted is no evidence that dmca was legit. maybe developer was just too scared |
| 17:05 |
Wuzzy2 |
what is your opinion on Pixture as default game (if crafting gets repaired)? |
| 17:05 |
Wuzzy2 |
i think it would be a great choice for the following reasons: |
| 17:05 |
Wuzzy2 |
- very simple, so easy to jump into for n00bs |
| 17:05 |
Wuzzy2 |
- does not get boring to quickly |
| 17:05 |
Wuzzy2 |
- rewards exploring the map |
| 17:06 |
Fixer |
not sure, but more history is probably here http://www.roguelikeradio.com/2012/01/episode-19-interview-with-darkgod.html |
| 17:06 |
Wuzzy2 |
- great cute atmosphere, i dont think many other games for minetest manage to do that |
| 17:07 |
Wuzzy2 |
- everything is really low-tech, you dont get like ultra diamond pickaxe in 6 minutes of gameplay |
| 17:07 |
Wuzzy2 |
pixture could see some expansions in depth, but i think it does a lot of things right in the CORE gameplay |
| 17:08 |
Fixer |
i'm pretty sure I've listened to some discussion about tolkien works and legalities |
| 17:09 |
Wuzzy2 |
biggest reason for pixture as default: it leaves a good first impression and can be easily picked up by anyone, great to get to know minetset in general as well |
| 17:10 |
Fixer |
found it, it is here http://www.roguelikeradio.com/2012/01/episode-18-tome4.html |
| 17:10 |
Wuzzy2 |
maybe maybe i will just pick up pixture one day, even the only change is to repair crafting |
| 17:10 |
Fixer |
"- IP violation, and DarkGod's change from Pern to Tolkien to an original setting" |
| 17:10 |
Wuzzy2 |
sfan5, ah you probably mean something like a drop-in replacement to minetest game? |
| 17:10 |
sfan5 |
what are you referring to? |
| 17:10 |
Fixer |
connebts section is useful |
| 17:10 |
Fixer |
referring to LOTT |
| 17:11 |
Wuzzy2 |
> Also cease and desist letters are just threats. Nearly always empty threats. They are scary as hell. But they are just a threat. They are not actually the instigation of any sort of civil litigation. Actual instigation of proceedings requires a lot of money and time. |
| 17:11 |
Wuzzy2 |
quoted for emphasis |
| 17:13 |
Fixer |
yeah, i'm not sure where LOTT developers live, what jurisdiction, etc, they may send DMCA to github and finish it |
| 17:14 |
Wuzzy2 |
maybe... Farlands would also be alternative, looks very mature, but i havent played it long enough to give a clear recommend |
| 17:14 |
Wuzzy2 |
also sfan5, what games did you play (for MT)? |
| 17:14 |
sfan5 |
barely any |
| 17:15 |
Shara |
Just to drop it in here: I'd be dead against LOTT or Mineclone being made official simply due to the associations. (sorry wuzzy - actually have a lot of respect for how much work you seem to have done on mineclone, but just... no) |
| 17:16 |
Shara |
Biggest issue for most of the games I saw, even those that looked like they have some real potential, is they don't really seem to have teams behind them, so if they become official and then the one or two people involved stops, who maintains the things? |
| 17:17 |
Shara |
Last time I looked at Farlands, one of the two main devs already quit working on it. |
| 17:17 |
Wuzzy2 |
Shara, i can understand you're against MCL2. i am very aware it does not really fit into minetest's vision. i would also not have really pushed MCL2 as default |
| 17:18 |
Wuzzy2 |
Shara, welllllll. minetest game deveopment is also not really promising to be honest. |
| 17:18 |
Shara |
I'm working on a game myself. Won't make it public unless it reaches a certain point, but may push for that to be some kind of official if it does. |
| 17:18 |
Wuzzy2 |
i mean one commit per week/month? |
| 17:18 |
Wuzzy2 |
woah |
| 17:18 |
Shara |
Since I do have a team that I hope will prove large enough to keep it going. |
| 17:18 |
Wuzzy2 |
sneaky sneaky |
| 17:18 |
Shara |
Always :) |
| 17:19 |
Wuzzy2 |
what genre will it be? |
| 17:19 |
Shara |
And I agree with you about MTG, for what it's worth. But I disagree with slamming it or giving up on it like some want as well. |
| 17:19 |
Shara |
Focus is on producing something that can stand as a complete survival game that is enjoyable without needing lot sof mods. |
| 17:20 |
Shara |
Laregly being built from scratch with very little reuse of existing mods. |
| 17:20 |
Wuzzy2 |
i do not propose to drop mtg completely, i dont mind if anyone spends time in it. but i DO propose that it needs to lose status as default game eventually, when theres alternatives |
| 17:20 |
Wuzzy2 |
Shara, i wouldnt mind if it WOULD re-use mods, however. what coutns is the end result |
| 17:20 |
Shara |
A lot of what I add to MTG (or talk paramat into adding, since he has more time than me :P) are actually results of things I've done in the game I'm making |
| 17:20 |
Wuzzy2 |
what's your opinion on Pixture? |
| 17:21 |
Shara |
Haven't looked at it in enough depth to say. |
| 17:21 |
Shara |
If you want me to take a serious look at it, send me a PM any time after this weekend. |
| 17:21 |
Wuzzy2 |
my point is that its great game for beginners because of simplicity |
| 17:21 |
Wuzzy2 |
do note in its currrent form, it is un-includable. |
| 17:22 |
Wuzzy2 |
the crafting system has been pointlessly broken |
| 17:22 |
Shara |
Ahh |
| 17:22 |
Wuzzy2 |
i mean made painfully unusable |
| 17:22 |
Wuzzy2 |
it technically works but its a revised crafting system which is so annoying to use |
| 17:22 |
Shara |
Well, the crafting system in my game is .. not so much broken as under development I guess. |
| 17:22 |
Wuzzy2 |
would have been easier to just stick to MT default XD |
| 17:22 |
Shara |
I'm not. So bored of crafting grid :D |
| 17:23 |
Wuzzy2 |
well if it is faster to use than craftgrdi then im all in |
| 17:23 |
Shara |
We're using rubenwardy's crafting mod for it. |
| 17:23 |
Wuzzy2 |
basically pixture crafting was an interesting experiment as first, but at the end its clear its even worse than crafting grid |
| 17:24 |
Wuzzy2 |
sad that onle one kind of crafting system is engine-supported, while the rest must be built by hand |
| 17:24 |
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paramat joined #minetest |
| 17:25 |
Wuzzy2 |
Shara, best indicator to measure crafting system is probably number of clicks |
| 17:25 |
Shara |
I never really liked crafting grid style crafting. |
| 17:25 |
Wuzzy2 |
or if you need ANY cognitive load |
| 17:25 |
paramat |
yes we can't include LOTT obviously |
| 17:25 |
Wuzzy2 |
me neither. but look at Pixture and you learn how to make it even worse :) |
| 17:26 |
Shara |
We're also aiming for a system where you don't have all the recipes to begin, and gradually unlock them |
| 17:26 |
Wuzzy2 |
yes, crafting grid has lot of problems, this is just an oddity inherited from minecraft, for no good reason |
| 17:26 |
Shara |
So hopefully it should ease players in a bit |
| 17:26 |
Wuzzy2 |
i agree this is also very important |
| 17:26 |
paramat |
pixture may have good aspects but i doubt the code quality and stability is remotely as good as MTG |
| 17:26 |
Wuzzy2 |
newbies need to know where to start instead of searching 1000 pages |
| 17:27 |
lumidify |
We're planning on completely revamping the LOTT crafting system, btw, but of course that doesn't fix DMCA stuff... |
| 17:27 |
Wuzzy2 |
i dont know how the TOME4 story ended, however |
| 17:27 |
Shara |
Wuzzy2: exactly, and especially since I'd like to build up toward a fair amount of content (complete game rather than modding base), it's good to limit what shows up when you first open the menu |
| 17:27 |
Wuzzy2 |
someone care to summarize? |
| 17:28 |
Wuzzy2 |
i mean was the dmca legit in any way? |
| 17:28 |
Wuzzy2 |
this is very important, a lot of copyright complaints are baseless. |
| 17:28 |
paramat |
sfan is correct essentially, so far no other games are good enough to be bundled, even if more interesting in some ways |
| 17:28 |
paramat |
and ITB isn't a game, it's a server |
| 17:29 |
Wuzzy2 |
what are the minimal criteria? |
| 17:29 |
Wuzzy2 |
paramat, i know *cries heavily* |
| 17:29 |
* Wuzzy2 |
looks at sofar |
| 17:29 |
Wuzzy2 |
paramat, i mean what are absolute must-have features a game must have to deserve to be default? |
| 17:30 |
Shara |
Wuzzy2: whatever paramat says plus probably at least one more thing per dev who gets asked, I'd guess :) |
| 17:30 |
paramat |
meh too difficult to summarise :) |
| 17:31 |
Shara |
But I'd say a good team is important, no matter what, because maintenance is a real thing |
| 17:31 |
Wuzzy2 |
i have the feeling minetest game gets a free pass far too easily and criticism is waved away, On the other hand, I suspect that contenders must be basically perfect in every aspect to be even considered |
| 17:31 |
Shara |
Wuzzy2: I basically joined the MTG team by criticising it lots :) |
| 17:32 |
Shara |
It doesn't get a free pass in my eyes. It needs to be better and to do more. |
| 17:33 |
Wuzzy2 |
i think if mtg would at least have a shared meaningful (!) vision that would already help a lot. |
| 17:33 |
Wuzzy2 |
currently minetest game is more like a melting pot. ideas drop in whoever has time to implement them |
| 17:33 |
Wuzzy2 |
that kind of development doesnt make good games :) |
| 17:34 |
Wuzzy2 |
deep concept discussions are foreign in mtg development |
| 17:34 |
Shara |
Yes, which I find a pity |
| 17:34 |
Shara |
And ultimately it's a big part of why I started working on my own game. |
| 17:35 |
Wuzzy2 |
with free pass i mean it reigns as king (default) over Minetest country, other games are degraded to servants :D |
| 17:35 |
Shara |
What we need is people forming actual real teams to make serious games. |
| 17:35 |
Wuzzy2 |
i do agree with the maintenance aspect, but ironically, minetest game is close to only life support either |
| 17:36 |
Shara |
But what I see people focusing on are things like LOTR and MC copies, and that is pretty depressing in a way. |
| 17:36 |
Shara |
Because the real skill is going into games that can't be used officially due to those associations. |
| 17:37 |
Wuzzy2 |
is maintenance such a huge aspect anyway? if maintenance just means "prevent from breaking it in future minetest versions" and you only need to be in sync with minetest development, then this could be done with very little work |
| 17:37 |
Wuzzy2 |
because minetest releases are rare |
| 17:37 |
paramat |
one thing i agree, MTG needs to not be seen as 'the' game (so needs a name change, working on it) |
| 17:37 |
Shara |
Maybe. But I'd be against stopping anything new being added to MTG anyway. |
| 17:37 |
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| 17:37 |
Wuzzy2 |
hell, even 0.5.0 doesn't break too many things. |
| 17:38 |
Wuzzy2 |
i dont caee about new features in mtg, but i am not opposed |
| 17:38 |
Wuzzy2 |
i think mtg is also advertisement fail |
| 17:38 |
Wuzzy2 |
a big problem is that is not n00b friendly. |
| 17:39 |
Wuzzy2 |
so already fails as a default (read: the game that n00bs see first) |
| 17:39 |
Wuzzy2 |
so a good default game must be considerate to n00bs, i think this is an important design goal |
| 17:39 |
Wuzzy2 |
simply to lower the barrier of entry into the World of Minetest :D |
| 17:39 |
Shara |
Well, I'm anti-tutorial, so you probably won't like any of my thoughts in that area |
| 17:39 |
paramat |
MTG actually has very high standards, higher than almost any game, but it's just a sandbox, don't expect excitement |
| 17:40 |
Wuzzy2 |
i'm not saying full-blown tutorial but *some* form of introduction should be added |
| 17:40 |
Shara |
Personally I think a good game should integrate it's own learning directly into it |
| 17:40 |
Wuzzy2 |
a more light-weight learning approach would also help. i like the approach of tutor mod |
| 17:40 |
Shara |
But the question is how far you need to go to also not bore to death more capable players |
| 17:41 |
Wuzzy2 |
of course this feature must disable itself when its no longer needed |
| 17:41 |
Wuzzy2 |
this is a no-brainer |
| 17:41 |
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| 17:41 |
paramat |
MTG development is very high quality and carefully considered, stuff isn't thrown in, people complain it's hard to get anything in :) |
| 17:41 |
Shara |
paramat: it is hard :) |
| 17:41 |
Shara |
That's not as bad as people make out though |
| 17:41 |
Wuzzy2 |
it is |
| 17:41 |
cimbakahn |
Hello Everyone! |
| 17:41 |
Shara |
I'd say the issue is really alack of discussion a lot of the time |
| 17:41 |
Wuzzy2 |
even the simplest feature can take weeks to review |
| 17:42 |
Wuzzy2 |
it really gets to absurd lengths |
| 17:42 |
cimbakahn |
Is anyone here running Linux? |
| 17:42 |
Wuzzy2 |
every single letter is "reviewed", yet mtg still sucks, mostly |
| 17:42 |
Shara |
Wuzzy2: yea, on that I agree. I've tried to review things quickly, but I like to test properly, and at the moment I have very little time |
| 17:42 |
longerstaff13 |
hi |
| 17:42 |
paramat |
MTG does have vision and direction, it's just not written down anywhere (because that's impossible), or rather, it exists in the dev discussions we have |
| 17:43 |
Wuzzy2 |
then explain me that vision please |
| 17:43 |
Wuzzy2 |
i am DYING to know the official vision and direcion of MTG. i really do |
| 17:43 |
cimbakahn |
Typing in terminal 'pcmanfm %U' Is this the correct output ----> /home/user/%U: No such file or directory |
| 17:43 |
sfan5 |
cimbakahn: yes |
| 17:44 |
paramat |
MTG is very well maintained, better than almost any other game |
| 17:44 |
cimbakahn |
sfan5, Thank you dear! |
| 17:44 |
Wuzzy2 |
i still dont know the vision, however |
| 17:45 |
paramat |
people complain MTG is too easy, it's hardly tough on noobs, no mobs, no dangers |
| 17:46 |
Wuzzy2 |
yes. you can completely forget survial gameplay in mtg |
| 17:46 |
Wuzzy2 |
if you only consider Creative Mode, MTG actually does well |
| 17:46 |
Wuzzy2 |
or if you install 1 million mods, MTG might also become an acceptable game, or even a good one |
| 17:47 |
Wuzzy2 |
but as soon you look into vanilla survival gameplay, its... really bad |
| 17:47 |
Wuzzy2 |
it just feels incomplete |
| 17:47 |
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LevierMRQ1 joined #minetest |
| 17:47 |
Wuzzy2 |
i mean... its really the small things which should be obvious |
| 17:47 |
Wuzzy2 |
it took years for the mese axe bug to be fixed. the priorities are all messed up |
| 17:48 |
cimbakahn |
I am on a different operating system and are having problems with my speech to text in the browser. Now i know the results of that command has nothing to do with it, and i'm pretty sure the problem isn't with the browser...... |
| 17:48 |
Wuzzy2 |
or that food insta heals you... |
| 17:48 |
paramat |
the 'vision' can't be explained as i said, just follow dev discussion closely, that's the vision |
| 17:48 |
Wuzzy2 |
paramat, that soudns a lot of my "melting pot" theory earlier |
| 17:48 |
paramat |
no |
| 17:48 |
Wuzzy2 |
everyone just has random ideas and throws it into a melting pot and whoever has time gets ti implement it |
| 17:49 |
cimbakahn |
When i activate it the mic blinks on and off in the panel. |
| 17:49 |
cimbakahn |
I could be missing a package. |
| 17:49 |
paramat |
as said before, MTG gameplay is not great, but other games 'suck' more (not for long though) |
| 17:50 |
paramat |
too much focus on MTG, go make a better game, it's what we need |
| 17:50 |
Wuzzy2 |
define "suck" |
| 17:50 |
Wuzzy2 |
does MCL2 suck according to your definition? |
| 17:50 |
Wuzzy2 |
does Pixture suck? |
| 17:51 |
Wuzzy2 |
ITB? rpgtest? LOTT? Legend of Minetest? |
| 17:51 |
paramat |
'suck' was your word, i don't like it either |
| 17:52 |
Wuzzy2 |
... |
| 17:52 |
LevierMRQ |
i beg my pardon? |
| 17:52 |
Wuzzy2 |
then dont say other games suck more :/ |
| 17:52 |
Wuzzy2 |
unless you have a specific game in mind |
| 17:52 |
Wuzzy2 |
or two |
| 17:53 |
Wuzzy2 |
paramat, i think MTG is mostly advertisement fail. biggest strength is probably moddability |
| 17:53 |
Wuzzy2 |
yet MTG is served as default to complete n00bs |
| 17:53 |
Wuzzy2 |
n00bs get bored, leave MT forever |
| 17:53 |
Wuzzy2 |
if you are a server operator and install mods, then MTG is actually pretty useful |
| 17:54 |
LevierMRQ |
looks like diplomacy to date. |
| 17:54 |
Shara |
Wuzzy2: let's not forget that content db will make other games much easier to access for players from 0.5 |
| 17:54 |
Wuzzy2 |
minetest game should be more advertised to server owners instead of normal players. at least in its current form |
| 17:54 |
paramat |
i do think that to get the quality, core devs will have to work on new games, can't completely leave it to contributors. i feel like working on new games |
| 17:54 |
Wuzzy2 |
Shara, yes, yes |
| 17:54 |
Wuzzy2 |
thats a very good point |
| 17:54 |
LevierMRQ |
We are welcome in #minetest because they suppose we wont use it against |
| 17:55 |
Wuzzy2 |
then maybe minetest game will become much less important |
| 17:55 |
Wuzzy2 |
ok not *much* less |
| 17:55 |
Shara |
Hard to know how it will work out. |
| 17:55 |
Wuzzy2 |
but at least other games will become accessible. this will be a major reason to party hard :) |
| 17:55 |
Wuzzy2 |
i think it will be awesome |
| 17:55 |
paramat |
:) well i used the word 'suck' to make a point in response to you saying MTG 'sucks' |
| 17:55 |
Wuzzy2 |
if bug-free, of course |
| 17:56 |
Shara |
I really do want to see more official games. But does that mean we get to the point of bundling multiple games? There are also questions around how it would work. |
| 17:56 |
Wuzzy2 |
because you can install pretty much every game every made with a few mouse clicks |
| 17:56 |
LevierMRQ |
i believe you must have suggestions. |
| 17:56 |
Shara |
If someone presents a really great game tomorrow, but it's some GB in size... clearly there would be people complaining about size. And so on. |
| 17:57 |
Wuzzy2 |
what does it meant to be "official game", however? only engine devs allowed? |
| 17:57 |
paramat |
and yeah, a new game to impress is needed, MTG is just a nice sandbox / mod base |
| 17:57 |
Shara |
Wuzzy2: I'm not an engine dev, so that wouldn't make sense :) |
| 17:58 |
Wuzzy2 |
i also recognize that mtg is slowly improving over the years. just the pace of development is reaaaaallllllyyyyy slooooooowww. i can hear the grass grow. |
| 17:58 |
paramat |
a bundled game can be made by anyone |
| 17:58 |
Shara |
Either way, what's needed is serious teams that stick together long enough to make actually good games... which aren't based on existing things. Some originality... |
| 17:58 |
Wuzzy2 |
a bundled game approved by paramet? IMPOSSIBLE!!!1 XD |
| 17:59 |
Shara |
LOTT, MC2, Legend of Minetest is another you mentioned... they are all based on other things. |
| 17:59 |
Wuzzy2 |
why the insistence on originality? mtg is hardly original. gameplay is much more important, then un-originality matters less |
| 18:00 |
Shara |
Because this isn't Tolkien-Voxel, or Pretend-It's-Not-Legend-Of-Zelda. |
| 18:00 |
Wuzzy2 |
lott and MoT... well only for the general theme |
| 18:00 |
Wuzzy2 |
which could be replaced if you really want to |
| 18:01 |
Shara |
I have tried LOTT... what it is is very obvious |
| 18:01 |
Shara |
Which is MoT? |
| 18:01 |
Wuzzy2 |
Megend of Tinemest |
| 18:01 |
Wuzzy2 |
Oops |
| 18:01 |
Shara |
:D |
| 18:01 |
Wuzzy2 |
i got that wrong |
| 18:01 |
Shara |
I've seen screenshots... come on, it copies Zelda games completely in every way it can. |
| 18:03 |
Wuzzy2 |
whats the problem |
| 18:03 |
Shara |
If you can't see it, I really don't know how to explain it to you. |
| 18:04 |
Wuzzy2 |
why, does it copy images 1:1? it doesnt seem so |
| 18:05 |
Shara |
So you are in MT to play imitations of other games? |
| 18:05 |
Wuzzy2 |
... |
| 18:05 |
Shara |
Is that all MT should be, and officially? |
| 18:06 |
Wuzzy2 |
ok LoM clearny cannot be official with that i agree |
| 18:06 |
Wuzzy2 |
or anyother "clony" games |
| 18:06 |
Wuzzy2 |
but i am against a complete rejection out of principle, this feels wrong |
| 18:06 |
Shara |
A game does not need to be unique in terms of themes or content to be good, but it shouldnt imitate such well known things. |
| 18:07 |
Shara |
I'm also okay with something being inspired by another thing. |
| 18:07 |
Shara |
But when the aim seems to be all out copying... |
| 18:07 |
Wuzzy2 |
LoM is still not really comparable to LoZ, gameplay-wise |
| 18:07 |
Wuzzy2 |
it cant be, LoM is still very sandboxey |
| 18:07 |
Shara |
Then maybe if the appearance was adjusted it would be fine. |
| 18:08 |
Shara |
But whetyher the author wanted to do that would be another thing |
| 18:08 |
Shara |
whether* |
| 18:08 |
Wuzzy2 |
well so if LoM would do a simple graphics change it would be fine? |
| 18:09 |
Shara |
Without spending time seriously looking at it, I can't say. |
| 18:09 |
Wuzzy2 |
sorry, i have to disagree with your hard opposition to imitation. its like you're saying "some designs are taboo, if they happen to be used by one major title" |
| 18:10 |
Shara |
Well, pretty sure there'd be the small issue of copyright... so yes, some designs are |
| 18:10 |
Wuzzy2 |
oh well, why do i care? if you dont like these games, just dont play them :) |
| 18:10 |
Wuzzy2 |
well copyright has limits too |
| 18:10 |
Shara |
It's not the games I dislike. I just don't consider them suitable as official games. |
| 18:10 |
Wuzzy2 |
yeah i agree fully with that |
| 18:11 |
Wuzzy2 |
it does not fit into the vision of minetest |
| 18:11 |
Wuzzy2 |
for minetest i would go with something more original as default |
| 18:11 |
Shara |
Exactly |
| 18:11 |
Wuzzy2 |
i would not push MCL2 for official inclusion either, that was also never the plan |
| 18:11 |
Wuzzy2 |
I do MCL2 mostly for teh lulz |
| 18:11 |
paramat |
people need to change their expectations of MTG, it's not a 'game' and doesn't pretend to be, it's a sandbox, although we are slowly making it a little more gamelike and will continue to |
| 18:12 |
Shara |
paramat: It needs to become a game :) |
| 18:12 |
Wuzzy2 |
any maybe, just maybe MCL2 will be completed one day... and even be enjoyable? |
| 18:12 |
Wuzzy2 |
paramat, you cant blame people for expecting high standards from mtg. its the DEFAULT |
| 18:13 |
Shara |
It has high standards, just not the level of content that people expect |
| 18:13 |
Wuzzy2 |
its not even about depth (i dislike the word "content") |
| 18:13 |
Shara |
You are welcome to dislike it, but it's accurate here :P |
| 18:13 |
Wuzzy2 |
Pixture has pretty low depth but i think it does many things right |
| 18:14 |
paramat |
Wuzzy2 MTG is the default because nothing else is overall good enough to bundle, that's not our fault :) |
| 18:14 |
Wuzzy2 |
atmosphere is also a crucial aspect |
| 18:14 |
Wuzzy2 |
something of which minetest is not a great help at all |
| 18:14 |
Wuzzy2 |
you stil have to do all atmosphere by hand (i.e. mods) and its usually slow and bad as hell |
| 18:15 |
Wuzzy2 |
i mean simple things like environmental sounds. a lot of games (not just MTG) are silent 90% of the time |
| 18:15 |
Shara |
Wuzzy2: all I can say is - make a real team that is serious about producing an original game. If that happens, I will support it however I can and even help with it (time permiting) if I can |
| 18:15 |
paramat |
Shara yes, the high expectations of MTG are of gameplay. it's easy to not notice high quality code, stability and good maintenance |
| 18:16 |
Shara |
Alternatively, I'll probably need more help with mine soon enough. |
| 18:16 |
Shara |
paramat: Yes, very true. Devs and players see different things. It's why i always try to keep playing a little |
| 18:16 |
Shara |
You can't see what the other side is saying or why, if you don't do that |
| 18:17 |
Wuzzy2 |
i think any game i'll ever make will be simple too niche to be ever even considered official :D |
| 18:18 |
paramat |
env sounds are difficult, engine work is needed, for that we need coders and reviewers, again not our fault |
| 18:18 |
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| 18:18 |
Wuzzy2 |
paramat, it's easy to maintain a minimalist game, true :) |
| 18:18 |
Wuzzy2 |
so thats the reason why major features are almost always rejected? fear of maintenance overhead? |
| 18:18 |
Shara |
Sound is massively important. |
| 18:19 |
Wuzzy2 |
yes env sounds are difficult but uber important |
| 18:19 |
Wuzzy2 |
and i am not blaming anyone |
| 18:19 |
Shara |
I'll admit I still have no clue what to do about sounds. |
| 18:19 |
Wuzzy2 |
well maybe one could start with small steps |
| 18:19 |
Shara |
And it makes me pretty unhappy. |
| 18:19 |
Wuzzy2 |
one simple idea i had floating in my head was node-centered sounds |
| 18:19 |
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| 18:19 |
Wuzzy2 |
i mean sounds that generate from certain node types |
| 18:20 |
Wuzzy2 |
one example is fire |
| 18:20 |
Wuzzy2 |
maybe could generalize the MTG code for that into the engine |
| 18:20 |
Wuzzy2 |
this really needs to be generalized for stuff like waterfalls, ocean water, lava pits, furnaces burning, and other "sound-emitting nodes" |
| 18:20 |
Shara |
Anyway, I need to get some work done, so will leave you with a screenshot someone just sent me... the type of MT build I like to see. Simple, and a tiny bit different: https://i.imgur.com/ajc94Vl.png |
| 18:21 |
paramat |
*sigh* there's so much unreasonable and irrational complaining about MTG. other games may 'seem' more interesting but don't have the code quality, stability or good maintenance, held to all standards almost none can be bundled, so criticise other games too, they usually deserve more of it :) |
| 18:21 |
Wuzzy2 |
ahhhhhhhhh.... my eys! a truck out of .... WOOL? you monster :D |
| 18:21 |
Shara |
Mwahahaha |
| 18:21 |
paramat |
actaully with multiple bundled games simple niche games are very welcome, it is what i would like to do |
| 18:22 |
Wuzzy2 |
the complaining is neither unreasonable nor irattional |
| 18:23 |
rubenwardy |
test |
| 18:23 |
Shara |
It can derail desire to address things when it's as endless as it is though... serious constructive conversation would be better. |
| 18:23 |
Shara |
But anyway |
| 18:23 |
rubenwardy |
I sent loads of messages, but they didn't send :( |
| 18:23 |
Wuzzy2 |
paramat, mtg deserves most criticism as long its default and content db is not out :P |
| 18:23 |
* Shara |
runs away |
| 18:23 |
rubenwardy |
ITB is a single player game masquerading as a server |
| 18:23 |
rubenwardy |
<paramat> MTG does have vision and direction, it's just not written down anywhere |
| 18:23 |
rubenwardy |
then it doesn't |
| 18:23 |
rubenwardy |
"let's not add anything but random minimal features" isn't really a vision or direction |
| 18:23 |
Wuzzy2 |
rubenwardy, you nailed it! |
| 18:23 |
paramat |
i have a water sounds PR but it's only temporary until better engine code |
| 18:23 |
rubenwardy |
ITB should have been single player from the start, using the HTTP API |
| 18:23 |
rubenwardy |
well |
| 18:24 |
rubenwardy |
single player supporting |
| 18:24 |
Wuzzy2 |
ITB is so obviously a singleplayer game |
| 18:24 |
rubenwardy |
you could still have servers |
| 18:24 |
Wuzzy2 |
hope we can convince sofar to make it downloadable |
| 18:24 |
rubenwardy |
but they'd be more like hubs |
| 18:24 |
rubenwardy |
and there would be a central repo for map designs |
| 18:24 |
rubenwardy |
and you can up and download them |
| 18:24 |
rubenwardy |
obviously it should be well integrated into the game |
| 18:24 |
Wuzzy2 |
well at least nobody can complain to us because we didn't contribute to it :) |
| 18:25 |
rubenwardy |
true |
| 18:26 |
Wuzzy2 |
maybe this is the only positive thing about proprietary software? XD you cant be accused of not having contributed to it ;) |
| 18:26 |
Wuzzy2 |
hehe ok im not saying itb is proprietary, im just messing. :P |
| 18:27 |
paramat |
well, we mean different things by 'vision and direction' then. something written down has been done before: "sandbox, mod base, some very basic gameplay features, focus moving elsewhere to other games so slow development" ? |
| 18:27 |
rubenwardy |
I also hate that ITB is essentially being ransomed |
| 18:27 |
paramat |
and what we add is not random |
| 18:28 |
rubenwardy |
maybe MTG should be split into individual mod repos, as a sort of library set |
| 18:28 |
rubenwardy |
kill it |
| 18:28 |
Wuzzy2 |
rubenwardy, i also never really liked the concept of "forced online" singleplayer games. some proprietary games did start this practice, very worrying. technically its 100% pointless, of course its just nannying the player because reasons |
| 18:28 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 18:28 |
rubenwardy |
usually to add IAPs and force adverts |
| 18:29 |
Wuzzy2 |
no dont kill MTG. MTG is good as pure sandbox (and i mean PURE sandbox!) and good for servers |
| 18:29 |
Wuzzy2 |
all im saying is that mtg should not be the centre of ALL attention. this goes against the vision of minetest |
| 18:29 |
Wuzzy2 |
minetest should be about many ideas to exploit, not just one default one :) |
| 18:30 |
paramat |
agreed |
| 18:30 |
rubenwardy |
!title https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=19760 |
| 18:30 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: Please make more games! - Minetest Forums |
| 18:30 |
Wuzzy2 |
MTG is just not good for survival gameplay, it also has really weird balancing |
| 18:31 |
Wuzzy2 |
like steel ingots are the ultra ore, crafting everything |
| 18:31 |
Wuzzy2 |
while other ingots are basically worthless |
| 18:31 |
Wuzzy2 |
rubenwardy, maybe you know the vision of Minetest Game? or are you outsider? :) |
| 18:32 |
Wuzzy2 |
paramat already failed to explain me the vision, just some vague babbling about "whatever is said in dev chat"... meh |
| 18:34 |
rubenwardy |
\o/ |
| 18:34 |
rubenwardy |
anyone how I can make a new partition similar to /tmp? ie: volatile, small, permanently mounted |
| 18:35 |
rubenwardy |
heh |
| 18:35 |
rubenwardy |
doesn't matter |
| 18:35 |
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| 18:35 |
sfan5 |
if you look at the output of /sbin/mount, it contains your answer |
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| 18:50 |
Fixer |
is that me or https://i.imgur.com/ajc94Vl.png has some duke nukem switches? |
| 19:01 |
Shara |
I think they were from some sci-fi mod, so maybe. |
| 19:01 |
Shara |
But thought it was nice creative use :) |
| 19:03 |
Fixer |
or maybe from Half-Life |
| 19:04 |
Shara |
Probably Doom, given who made the mod... |
| 19:04 |
rubenwardy |
CDB now supports any git repo for importing meta |
| 19:04 |
rubenwardy |
and can also detect the type of package |
| 19:04 |
Shara |
:) |
| 19:04 |
rubenwardy |
and also finds out all the contained mods and dependencies automagically |
| 19:06 |
Fixer |
or maybe doom |
| 19:06 |
Fixer |
yeah, very probably |
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| 21:02 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest: Set ENABLE_GETTEXT to TRUE by default (#7415) 35bc3e2 https://git.io/vhRqL (2018-06-05T21:02:14Z) |
| 21:03 |
Wuzzy2 |
thank you |
| 21:04 |
Wuzzy2 |
how is it possible this ENABLE_GETTEXT went unnoticdd for years? XD *mysterious music plays* |
| 21:10 |
MinetestBot |
[git] nOOb3167 -> minetest/minetest: Fix builtin lua function os.tempfolder (#7368) a2de439 https://git.io/vhRq5 (2018-06-05T21:08:10Z) |
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| 21:56 |
Teckla |
So how did Minetest get its name anyway? :) |
| 22:05 |
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| 22:18 |
hmmmmm |
minecraft... testing some things out... mine... test... minetest! |
| 22:18 |
hmmmmm |
sounds much less awkward in Finnish |
| 22:19 |
rubenwardy |
hey, you're not hmmmm |
| 22:21 |
celeron55 |
obviously not, there's a fifth m! |
| 22:21 |
celeron55 |
altough, there wasn't some moments ago |
| 22:24 |
hmmmmm |
i'm not "back" |
| 22:24 |
hmmmmm |
i had been contacted by who seems to be the guy in charge of puri.sm, the non-profit responsible for making the librem 5 phone |
| 22:25 |
hmmmmm |
you probably were too |
| 22:26 |
hmmmmm |
he wants to know what it takes to get minetest running on the debian/gnome shell tablet mode... i was honest about it (for better or worse). you can take the android touchscreen input and genericize it to other platforms, but the elephant in the room is the rendering performance |
| 22:26 |
hmmmmm |
as far as i can understand, 2 years after i quit minetest nobody has done *anything* at all there |
| 22:26 |
hmmmmm |
it's been nerzuhl re-styling the code to use C++11 features |
| 22:26 |
hmmmmm |
sigh |
| 22:26 |
hmmmmm |
anyway i told him to come here if he wants to chat with us real time. |
| 22:28 |
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| 22:51 |
* paramat |
says hi |
| 23:01 |
VanessaE |
holy shit, the prodigal son returns :) hey hmmmmm |
| 23:05 |
Teckla |
hmmmmm: Heh, yeah, I feel like it was a little test (experiment) that grew, and the name Minetest just sort of "stuck." :) |
| 23:08 |
hmmmmm |
paramat, VanessaE: hi |
| 23:08 |
hmmmmm |
Teckla: you should come on efnet more. |
| 23:10 |
Teckla |
hmmmmm: Ah, IRCCloud and EFNet were not playing nice together for a few days, it seems to be fixed now |
| 23:14 |
* Teckla |
stops procrastinating and reads about Lua Voxel Manipulators |
| 23:14 |
hmmmmm |
you like my manips |
| 23:16 |
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| 23:16 |
* Teckla |
gives a thumbs up |
| 23:17 |
hmmmmm |
btw paramat i saw your commit. thanks for fixing that man |
| 23:17 |
rubenwardy |
LVMs are my favourite MT API |
| 23:28 |
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| 23:32 |
paramat |
cool :) |
| 23:37 |
erstazi |
Trying to hack at some lua. Got this harvester from autofarmer and with 0.4.17, it seems to be doubling the nodes. It will properly pipe one through pipeworks, but then drop one where it was. Essentially doubling. I think it has something to do with minetest.get_node_drops(node, tool) See: https://github.com/yzziizzy/minetest_autofarmer/blob/master/harvester.lua |
| 23:39 |
Teckla |
So quick question here, I noticed some contradictions between this: https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/chapters/lvm.html and this: http://dev.minetest.net/minetest.get_content_id |
| 23:39 |
Teckla |
Can anyone tell me if one or the other of those is obviously out-of-date? |
| 23:39 |
rubenwardy |
lua_api will be more in-date |
| 23:40 |
rubenwardy |
wait no |
| 23:40 |
rubenwardy |
what's the contradiction? |
| 23:41 |
rubenwardy |
note that the wiki does a tiny bit of manual indexing |
| 23:41 |
rubenwardy |
where as that chapter uses the helper for everything |
| 23:42 |
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| 23:43 |
Teckla |
rubenwardy: vm:write_to_map(data) vs. manip:write_to_map() |
| 23:43 |
hmmmmm |
you don't need to specify data |
| 23:43 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, it's optional |
| 23:43 |
Teckla |
Okey dokey, thanks hmmmmm |
| 23:43 |
hmmmmm |
well, is it? |
| 23:44 |
rubenwardy |
huh |
| 23:44 |
rubenwardy |
no it's not |
| 23:44 |
hmmmmm |
i forget how it's set up |
| 23:44 |
rubenwardy |
it's a boolean |
| 23:44 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4664 |
| 23:44 |
rubenwardy |
so data is being cast to a boolean |
| 23:44 |
rubenwardy |
ie: true |
| 23:44 |
rubenwardy |
and causing light calcs to be ran |
| 23:44 |
hmmmmm |
wth |
| 23:44 |
hmmmmm |
did i do that?? |
| 23:44 |
rubenwardy |
silly wiki example |
| 23:44 |
* rubenwardy |
edits |
| 23:45 |
Teckla |
woo hoo, causing trouble already! *bows* |
| 23:45 |
rubenwardy |
Teckla, in order of reliability (best to worst): lua_api.txt, my modding book, dev wiki |
| 23:45 |
twoelk |
yay the wiki is considered worthy of updating |
| 23:45 |
rubenwardy |
my modding books has a few typos scattered around though |
| 23:46 |
Teckla |
rubenwardy: Got it; thanks. lua_api.txt is my new friend |
| 23:46 |
rubenwardy |
no no, there is no write_to_map(data) there |
| 23:46 |
rubenwardy |
do you mean set_data? |
| 23:46 |
rubenwardy |
oohh, it's my code |
| 23:46 |
hmmmmm |
write_to_map(data) was originally an implicit set_data(data) && write_to_map() |
| 23:46 |
rubenwardy |
my bad |
| 23:46 |
hmmmmm |
it seems like this got repurposed here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/ab371cc93491baf0973ecc94b96c3a1fdb4abfd5 |
| 23:47 |
rubenwardy |
I must have copy and pasted that line |
| 23:47 |
Teckla |
Screen shot from https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/chapters/lvm.html -- https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/vdgwYxx7/image.png |
| 23:47 |
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| 23:48 |
rubenwardy |
fun fact: that could was copied from CTF which was copied from some where else |
| 23:48 |
Teckla |
Interestingly, even in single mods, I see a mix of write_to_map() and write_to_map(data); for example, in the ctf game |
| 23:48 |
rubenwardy |
snap |
| 23:49 |
rubenwardy |
*code, not could |
| 23:49 |
Teckla |
Although I assume write_to_map(data) is harmless at runtime. |
| 23:49 |
rubenwardy |
it's the same as write_to_map(true) |
| 23:49 |
rubenwardy |
not sure if it needs to copy into the stack passed to the c++ function |
| 23:50 |
rubenwardy |
also, reload the chapter |
| 23:50 |
Teckla |
rubenwardy: Looks good! Thanks! |
| 23:51 |
rubenwardy |
actually, mistake |
| 23:51 |
Teckla |
rubenwardy: I think maybe possibly "pos1" and "min", and "pos2" and "max", might be interposed as well. |
| 23:51 |
Teckla |
Maybe. |
| 23:52 |
paramat |
yeah 'vm:write_to_map(data)' was an error(?) in hmmmmm's first LVM example in the forum that got copied everywhere. 'data' should not be there |
| 23:52 |
rubenwardy |
staaahhhpppp |
| 23:52 |
rubenwardy |
oh lol |
| 23:52 |
hmmmmm |
it wasn't an error, it was a poorly designed API that i changed before committing |
| 23:52 |
hmmmmm |
but i never updated the example |
| 23:52 |
paramat |
now of course that function takes a boolean argument for lighting |
| 23:54 |
rubenwardy |
updated that page |
| 23:54 |
Teckla |
rubenwardy: Thank you good sir ;) |
| 23:54 |
paramat |
(yes sorry catching up on discussion) |
| 23:54 |
Teckla |
rubenwardy: Hey wait, did you take out update_map()? |
| 23:54 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 23:54 |
rubenwardy |
it's deprecated |
| 23:54 |
Teckla |
Ah ha! |
| 23:54 |
rubenwardy |
also, forgot to change the explaination |
| 23:54 |
* Teckla |
deletes that line from his code with prejudice |
| 23:55 |
paramat |
anyway the forum has a new LVM example now with many optimisations |
| 23:55 |
paramat |
memory use optimisations |
| 23:55 |
Teckla |
* `update_map()`: Does nothing, kept for compatibility. -- ah, yes; this file is going to come in very, very handy |
| 23:55 |
Teckla |
paramat: Do you happen to have the link to that post handy? |
| 23:55 |
paramat |
yes |
| 23:56 |
paramat |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=19836 |
| 23:56 |
Teckla |
Thank you paramat |
| 23:56 |
rubenwardy |
I'll be adding your stuff to that chapter eventually, para |
| 23:56 |
rubenwardy |
wanted to introduce concepts gradually |
| 23:56 |
paramat |
ok |
| 23:57 |
rubenwardy |
also, the example includes stuff like noise |
| 23:57 |
rubenwardy |
and mapgen |
| 23:57 |
rubenwardy |
which I don't want in that chapter, but instead a later one |
| 23:59 |
rubenwardy |
anyway, gtg |
| 23:59 |
hmmmmm |
lol |
| 23:59 |
hmmmmm |
neruzuhl really doesn't like me |
| 23:59 |
hmmmmm |
he removed my admin status from the forum |
| 23:59 |
hmmmmm |
and i got my comments removed from the PRs |
