IRC log for #minetest, 2017-11-04

Time	Nick	Message
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02:36	CalebDavis	can hud text elements use color escape sequences
02:36	rubenwardy	no afaik
02:36	rubenwardy	only solid colors
02:37	CalebDavis	ok is that a planed feature?
02:37	rubenwardy	no features are really planned
02:37	rubenwardy	just whatever a developer wants to work on
02:38	CalebDavis	ok
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09:36	BiKA	hi
09:36	BiKA	who here?
09:37	BiKA	none?
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11:21	Elon_Satoshi	Hi!
11:24	Krock	Hi!
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12:17	Fixer	hi
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12:24	Elon_Satoshi	For some reason, while playing Carbone NG, I found that the framerate would drop a lot when I opened the inventory
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14:10	hisforever	Ihave a Question when I get in to any of my worlds It looks like I.m in a fog bank how do I correct this?
14:12	sfan5	press + a few times
14:16	hisforever	press whata few times?
14:16	Krock	the + key
14:17	Krock	turn on num lock and use the keypad if necessary
14:18	stormchaser3000_	i am on OpenBSD right now and whenever i try to play the latest minetest 0.5.0-dev my w, a, s, and d keys don't seem to be able to control movement anymore after using the left mouse button once
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14:21	hisforever	ty Krock that worked I have to leave now God bless
14:24	Krock	stormchaser3000_, minetest or irrlicht issue?
14:25	stormchaser3000_	Krock, i have no idea
14:25	* stormchaser3000_	should have looked at the debug info like he usually does
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14:52	benrob0329	stormchaser3000_: were the keys deregistered somehow?
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15:07	Fixer	stormchaser3000_: lol, nice bug, can you post a bug on github?
15:09	ThomasMonroe	I noticed in the latest build, the stacking of similar blocks is not working properly
15:10	ThomasMonroe	I would dig 3 or 4 tree nodes and only get one in the stack
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16:44	ThomasMonroe	turns out it might be the current version of MTG
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18:16	deltasquared	uargh, I feel like I'm having a wedge driven into my brain
18:16	deltasquared	I'm not going to want to think about graph theory again after this >_>
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18:23	dogetest	how could I host on my computer if my ISP doesnt allow for inbound connections?
18:25	sfan5	you can't
18:27	o11c	dogetest: for limited purposes, you can use STUN to open individual ports (maybe)
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18:39	dogetest	o11c: wouldnt I need a STUN server?
18:40	o11c	yeah, but there are plenty of those out there
18:47	Taose	Doesn't allow for inbound connections?
18:48	Taose	How are you receiving information?
18:48	Taose	Or for that matter sending it
18:48	dogetest	because it allows outbound
18:48	Taose	So what do you call the information being sent to you from my computer?
18:49	o11c	that's just what the NAT temporarily opens
18:49	dogetest	couldnt serverslist's server feature something like a STUN server?
18:49	o11c	STUN is a way of doing that intentionally
18:49	o11c	dogetest: have you tried actually talking to your ISP?
18:49	Taose	There's also TOR, which hijacks port 80 to do the same thing
18:49	o11c	ISPs are generally filled with nerds
18:50	Taose	I think you should definitely talk to your ISP
18:50	dogetest	I wont
18:51	Taose	Well if you don't want the help?
18:51	dogetest	I kind of free riding here
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18:51	Taose	mhm
18:52	dogetest	also, I believe itsa common problem, since most ISP wont give their customers a public address
18:53	Taose	?
18:53	Taose	Everyone has a public IP address.
18:53	o11c	don't by default, maybe
18:53	Taose	There are two types
18:53	Taose	Dynamic and Static
18:53	dogetest	they use 1 for everyone
18:53	Taose	it's static that they don't typically offer
18:53	Taose	(you can't connect or receive without an IP address)
18:53	o11c	most home ISPs still don't have a need to do carrier-grade NAT
18:53	dogetest	there are also private and public
18:54	o11c	only mobile ISPs need to
18:54	dogetest	most of them do it here
18:54	o11c	(also, screw NAT that uses a different external IP depending on the port)
18:54	dogetest	most of internet users receive it through a radio signal
18:54	Taose	You don't need any of that
18:55	Taose	In order to connect to the internet you need an IP address
18:55	Taose	Otherwise the internet can't send you stuff
18:55	dogetest	I do have one, but its private
18:55	Taose	That's like putting a driver in a car and telling him to get to Alphrasxi without a map
18:56	Taose	192.168.0.1 is your LAN address
18:56	dogetest	the ISP routes everything through some public address
18:56	Taose	you also have a public one
18:56	Taose	Yep and you can use that public address to receive stuff
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18:56	Taose	because it's actually allocated to you
18:56	Taose	(at least temporarily)
18:57	dogetest	Taose: but not inbound connections
18:57	Taose	I've done it before >.>
18:57	dogetest	only those I have initiated, thats outbound
18:57	Taose	I just used DynDNS...
18:57	Taose	worked like a charm
18:58	dogetest	Ive used it before, but it wont work with this ISP
18:58	dogetest	its pretty much like mobile network
18:59	o11c	carrier-grade NAT is designed for technical problems (IPv4 address space being gone)
18:59	o11c	it's not designed to punish people who want to run small-time home servers
18:59	o11c	so just ask already
19:00	Taose	^
19:00	dogetest	thx, but I would prefer to ask for someone to host it for me than to ask ISP guys anything
19:00	dogetest	Imnot their customer
19:00	Taose	Plenty of server farms out there
19:01	* Taose	wonders if Minetest would work through an SSH tunnel
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19:03	Taose	Also, Krock, thanks :)
19:04	Krock	np... for whatever helped
19:04	rubenwardy	oh hai hoodedice
19:04	Taose	The link
19:04	hoodedice	o/
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19:05	hoodedice	bummed out with working on a webapp, so here for distraction
19:05	hoodedice	I should do some homework...
19:05	Taose	and now I feel really old
19:05	deltasquared	raises hand a tad burned out from writing connected graph tracking code
19:06	Taose	but that's okay because I brought home some processing work...
19:06	deltasquared	Taose: 1997 was TWO WHOLE DECADES AGO! :P
19:06	Taose	T_T
19:06	deltasquared	or, "I hate that 2003 is such a long time ago" with captions reading "lol ur old"
19:06	hoodedice	I'm more burned out because I really haven't written code in a while
19:07	Taose	See this is where I know you're younger than me, because you made a comment about 1997...
19:07	hoodedice	I would know, I am more than two decades old ;__;
19:07	Taose	XD
19:07	deltasquared	Taose: actually I was born in '97.
19:07	hoodedice	> younger than me too
19:08	Taose	I was born pre 1990
19:08	hoodedice	going to head off to the gym to cool my head and get a change of scenery
19:08	Taose	Also
19:08	Taose	you're 20+ why do you have homework? O_o did education limits change?
19:09	hoodedice	it's called "last semester of college"
19:09	hoodedice	I should call it an "assignment"
19:09	deltasquared	oh I was gonna say, was it s/homework/assignment
19:09	hoodedice	but that sounds like actual work, and not the busywork that is homework
19:10	Taose	X3
19:10	* deltasquared	decides not to start ranting about public sector education in general
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19:11	deltasquared	myheadmyheadmyhead whyyyyy
19:11	deltasquared	it feels like someone has been sat on it (no phrasing intended)
19:12	Krock	oh sorry gets off
19:15	Taose	Delta
19:15	Taose	2x Paracetamol + 2x Ibruprofen
19:15	Taose	s#17 works
19:16	Taose	Cheap, effective and less suspicious than carrying a packet of codeine.
19:16	Taose	Ibru? Ibu*
19:22	deltasquared	I'm generally of the impression that I shouldn't be taking something for this, as I need to keep track of how long it persists just in case it's something more serious
19:22	deltasquared	just in general that I shouldn't be having them in the first place so it doesn't feel right to resort to painkillers.
19:28	paramat	wise
19:29	paramat	treat cause not symptom
19:30	deltasquared	paramat: I'll be honest to date it's never been that bothersome that I've actually treated the cause, so to speak
19:30	deltasquared	or at least asked the doc about it... alcohol is helping take the edge off in this circumstance. still there but not as bothersome ;)
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20:04	ThomasMonroe	how do you do modulus in lua?
20:05	deltasquared	does % not work?
20:05	deltasquared	worked fine for me
20:05	deltasquared	... wait
20:05	deltasquared	huh, I could have sworn
20:05	ThomasMonroe	i'll try, I thought it might be someting different
20:05	rubenwardy	"unexpected symbol near '5'
20:05	deltasquared	ThomasMonroe: there is a math.mod, trying that
20:05	ThomasMonroe	ok thanks
20:06	deltasquared	yeah that works
20:06	deltasquared	I guess lua is conservative with special symbols
20:06	o11c	it's "user-friendly"
20:06	o11c	also known as programmer-unfriendly
20:07	rubenwardy	Lua tries to be as light as possible
20:07	deltasquared	o11c: I dunno, I've found programming in it to be a joy compared to C++ (though they are rather two extremes)
20:07	o11c	nonsense
20:07	rubenwardy	so unnecessary operators
20:07	rubenwardy	I like programming in C++
20:08	rubenwardy	programming the Minetest engine is a different story however, there's a lot of complexity
20:08	Taose	deltasquared, headaches happen some people are more prone to them than others and if they're like mine, they can persist for days unless you take something.
20:08	deltasquared	I like lua's free-form syntax and keywords instead of braces ("do ... end" vs "{ ... }") for doing pseudo-code, you can write almost-correct lua and fill in bits later
20:08	deltasquared	so it's great for prototyping but then you don't have to do much to make it real code either ;)
20:08	Taose	lua...
20:08	* Taose	shudders
20:08	rubenwardy	I almost think that Lua is a nice language
20:09	rubenwardy	yet - arrays start at 1
20:09	Taose	heh
20:09	deltasquared	ugh, yeah that
20:09	ThomasMonroe	thanks deltasquared, it works
20:09	deltasquared	rubenwardy: I had to re-train for a while with that
20:09	deltasquared	ThomasMonroe: np, what was it for out of curiousity
20:10	ThomasMonroe	an experience mod, saying something in chat every time a person leveledup to a level that was a multiple of five
20:10	deltasquared	oh, I see. does it do a jingle sound too?
20:10	ThomasMonroe	not yet
20:10	deltasquared	(I'm thinking of the little tinkling MC does in the same condition)
20:11	ThomasMonroe	https://github.com/ThomasMonroe314/xp
20:11	ThomasMonroe	I think I am going to change the name though
20:12	ThomasMonroe	My brother did the bulk of the coding
20:12	ThomasMonroe	I'm just tweaking and balancing it
20:12	deltasquared	is there an XP orb entity? looks at repo
20:13	ThomasMonroe	nope
20:13	deltasquared	... aww
20:13	ThomasMonroe	it gives you XP based on what you dig
20:13	deltasquared	I guess it's less lag like that in any case
20:16	ThomasMonroe	true
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20:28	* orbea	notices this and thinks it would be cool :D http://dev.minetest.net/TODO#Voxel_Area_Entities
20:28	deltasquared	orbea: this to the nth power, but the engine changes as stated would likely be non-trivial
20:29	orbea	now only if I had the technical ability to even that...
20:29	orbea	*to do
20:29	deltasquared	to be fair, what really needs to be done there is for the engine code to be knocked around a bit to not assume a global grid, but rather everything is relative to a "world handle" as it were
20:30	deltasquared	and that would break mods
20:30	deltasquared	as you just go minetest.get_node(pos) without regard for "which world", it's always the world
20:30	orbea	i can see how breaking stuff would be bad...
20:30	deltasquared	IOW the minetest world is a singleton of sorts right now and everything settled around that
20:31	deltasquared	the only way you could get compat to work for that would be to isolate grids from each other and swap out the "minetest" object inside callbacks, such that minetest.get_node() happens to affect the grid that invoked e.g. on_construct()
20:32	deltasquared	but even that would have corner cases.
20:32	deltasquared	it would be hacky, and a lot of refactoring, and the kind of work the MT core devs don't want with the limited man power they have
20:32	deltasquared	which does suck but is perfectly understandable
20:32	orbea	yea
20:32	Taose	Breaking stuff isn't always bad if its done for the right reasons and the right support is offered.
20:33	Taose	Given the size of minetest the consultation period would need to be six months or so >.>
20:33	orbea	just means it would take extra care to get it right
20:33	deltasquared	Taose: yeah for something like this it's definitely a "show me the code, and show me you'll stick around when stuff breaks" type situation
20:34	Taose	As long as the documentation is good sticking around is unnecessary but... I'm under no illusions here XD
20:34	deltasquared	there would definitely be stuff that breaks. I can think of mods where for whatever reason they squirrel away a reference to minetest.get_node() at load time
20:35	deltasquared	(I'm of the opinion that those should be fixed in this particular situation but that's just it, an opinion)
20:35	deltasquared	heh, make get_node that exists at load time either nil or a function which always errors saying "YOU MUST OBTAIN THIS AT RUNTIME"
20:38	deltasquared	that said, implicitly accesing it via the minetest global shouldn't run into that.
20:38	deltasquared	of course this is mostly academic
20:43	Elon_Satoshi	Hi!
20:43	Elon_Satoshi	How do I increase the timeout for loading the server list?
20:43	Elon_Satoshi	> 2017-11-04 15:42:08: ERROR[AsyncWorker-3]: servers.minetest.net/list?proto_version_min=25&proto_version_max=32 not found (Timeout was reached) (response code 200)
20:43	Elon_Satoshi	My internet is slow :/
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20:48	Krock	nice error. the response code suggests that it's not an error
20:50	o11c	presumably part of the page was fetched, but not all
20:53	LazyJ	An idea - adding an option to the server list menu to limit how many servers are displayed. ie a dropdown selection list: 5,10,20, all, and only the amount specified would be shown and only the top servers within the specified amount.
20:54	deltasquared	something tells me that if you have trouble loading the server list you won't be playing on a server today
20:55	LazyJ	Ah, and there probably should be an option for not downloading any server list inside MT. Instead let the player search the MT server list website. That would less burden on their system.
20:55	Billre	I think the server admins trying to promote their server but still getting 0 players would have a problem with that
20:55	LazyJ	There has been some discussion about the client pinging the servers to find ones geographically closer to the client to help with connection issues.
20:56	Billre	eventually, only the top list of servers would have all the players
20:56	LazyJ	Aye. That is the downside.
20:56	LazyJ	But on the other hand, if the player can't connect anyway, the server's still lose out on a potential player.
20:57	Calinou	LazyJ: what's the point in limiting the number of visible servers? we have a scrollbar
20:57	Krock	Elon_Satoshi, curl_timeout = 10000
20:57	Calinou	also, making players able to join servers from an URL is possible, but requires registering an URL protocol on the system (like minetest://)
20:57	Krock	or higher
20:57	LazyJ	I recall some of my old DOS games having a utility that could test the user's system and display what settings the user could use to play the game.
20:57	Calinou	this is easy on Windows using an installer, but not on macOS or Linux, IIRC
20:58	LazyJ	Calinou, the idea of limiting the number of servers listed instead of the scroll bar is the client would have less to download.
20:58	Calinou	also, having a web browser open in the background is far more burden on the system than supporting cURL :P
20:58	deltasquared	Calinou: it would have to be a thing that distros handle but I think xdg desktop spec files allow URI handlers
20:58	Calinou	LazyJ: it's insignificant in 2017
20:58	Calinou	even on a slow ADSL connection
20:58	Calinou	it's just a JSON file!
20:59	deltasquared	I would definitely find minetest:// a cool idea
20:59	LazyJ	Folks could open the web browser, write down the connection info, and then shutdown the web browser.
20:59	Calinou	http://servers.minetest.net/list.json
21:00	Calinou	deltasquared: such things are seldom used todayâ€¦ a few games support joining via URL protocol, I've never used that feature
21:00	Calinou	I suggested it, but it's mostly novelty by now
21:00	LazyJ	Whatever technique folks like Elon_Satoshi may have to employ they'll have to do until they have a system capable of handling MT or something else in the process improves.
21:00	Calinou	LazyJ: that's too much of an inconvenience for 99% of users
21:00	Calinou	I mean, even in QuakeWorld, I can use an in-game server browser
21:00	Calinou	this isn't a new thing
21:00	LazyJ	True. But us poor folk have to be creative and come up with our solutions.
21:01	LazyJ	Discussing options and ideas may lead to a workable setup for Elon_Satoshi.
21:01	asl97	LazyJ: there was an button which you need to click to get the public list but this happened https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4007
21:01	Elon_Satoshi	Hmm
21:01	Calinou	so yeah, the JSON is 261 KB
21:01	Calinou	however, it is 73 KB on the wire, if you access it using a web browser, since it's gzipped
21:01	Calinou	I'm not sure if cURL supports gzip compression, though
21:01	Calinou	(especially in the way we use it)
21:02	sfan5	it certainly does
21:02	Calinou	oh, that's good then
21:02	Calinou	LazyJ: a single user isn't enough to warrant adding a new feature
21:02	sfan5	not really since mt is not using gzip for http fetching
21:02	Calinou	especially since we're already way understaffed
21:02	Calinou	sfan5: ah :(
21:02	Calinou	yeah, cURL supports it, but not Minetest
21:02	sfan5	from watching the logs i can assure you that each mt client downloads the uncompressed 270KB of the serverlist
21:03	Calinou	well, 261 KB is 2 seconds on a very slow ADSL connection
21:03	LazyJ	Elon_Satoshi is the only one who has spoke up about this. It is conceivable that there are more in his situation.
21:03	Calinou	it'd be nice to implement gzip support, but it's not really a priority
21:03	o11c	it's literally just a single line in your curl code
21:03	rubenwardy	can they even play on servers if it takes so long to download 261KB?
21:03	LazyJ	However, I do realize there has to be a reasonable cutoff as some point as to how much backward/low-end compatibility can be expected.
21:03	sfan5	Calinou: 0.001 Mbit/s doesn't seem realistic
21:04	asl97	here is an image of the old server page that i found on google https://www.linux.org/attachments/minetest_05-png.1288/
21:05	Calinou	sfan5: no, a 130 KB/s download
21:05	Calinou	(which corresponds to very slow ADSL)
21:05	sfan5	wait that's 1 Mbit/s yeah my fault
21:06	Krock	0.001 Mbps would be quite insane - even modems are faster than that - 56 kbps
21:06	Billre	I have many players that join and immediately leave the server I'm on. I believe the best guess anyone has made is that their device couldn't handle the media download.
21:06	LazyJ	If Minetest is too heavy for Elon_Satoshi and others, there is always "Craft":
21:06	LazyJ	https://www.michaelfogleman.com/projects/craft/
21:06	o11c	1.5 Mpbs is pretty common
21:06	o11c	most games are playable on that
21:06	LazyJ	A YouTube video of "Craft":
21:06	LazyJ	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R8cPw3WidU&index=3&list=PLSnhtzRqxUrgthPGKAkK0hsiaRLu9flkb
21:06	Billre	media download is more of an issue than server list
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21:07	o11c	(7 Mbps is the most we even can get where I live)
21:07	o11c	does minetest not do download caching of media?
21:07	LazyJ	A little shorter URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R8cPw3WidU
21:07	sfan5	it does
21:08	Calinou	Billre: do you host a remote_media server?
21:08	Calinou	(an HTTP server to serve media)
21:08	Billre	it does but most of the players that join and immediately leave are new. I think they got tired of waiting for the media to download.
21:08	Calinou	if not, expect downloads to be very slow
21:08	Calinou	also, mobile devices often don't have enough RAM to join modded servers
21:08	Calinou	you need 2 GB of RAM for this, preferably 3 GB
21:09	deltasquared	I think mine has about 2. though the FPS is intolerable in some cases
21:10	Elon_Satoshi	"craft"?
21:10	Billre	Exactly, so if the server list is a problem, the game definitely will be more of one
21:11	Billre	Is there a way to check a device to see if it's capable of running the game?
21:12	sfan5	Calinou: enabling gzip would actually considerably cut the traffic my vps receives
21:12	sfan5	most if the ~ 2 TB / month are the server list
21:12	sfan5	of*
21:13	Calinou	yeah, so it's a good idea
21:13	Krock	.c 2E12/261E3
21:13	Calinou	should I create an issue about this?
21:13	Krock	!c 2E12/261E3
21:13	MinetestBot	7662835.249042146
21:14	Krock	not bad. seven million downloads monthly
21:14	sfan5	i think i can implement this faster than you can create an issue
21:14	Calinou	Billre: there's no definite way to check if a game (or any computer program) will run fast enough on a given deviceâ€¦
21:14	Calinou	sfan5: heh, do it then :D
21:14	Billre	seven million downloads of the game??
21:15	Billre	Where are the six million 999 thousand 900 players?
21:15	Krock	Billre, who's talking about the game? the server list.
21:15	rubenwardy	Billre, android clients
21:15	deltasquared	yeah so many accesses of the server list figures
21:15	rubenwardy	multicraft has like X0 million downloads
21:16	deltasquared	isn't that the GPL violating one
21:16	rubenwardy	and it's loads anyway
21:16	rubenwardy	no
21:16	rubenwardy	well, it's the least GPL violating one
21:16	deltasquared	I didn't realise it went on a scale :P
21:16	rubenwardy	it gives credit and releases the source
21:16	rubenwardy	it just doesn't allow you to replace Minetest
21:17	rubenwardy	as the Java wrapper is proprietary due to ads
21:17	Billre	I'm not getting something .. why the least be more of an issue than game handling?
21:17	Billre	why the list*
21:20	Billre	Oh wait .. I get it now ... because no one is playing the game.
21:20	Billre	:D
21:20	Calinou	wow, my server has 37 days of uptime (and 61 days of age)
21:20	Calinou	ping/lag is 12/33
21:20	Calinou	however, it never had more than 1 player at once :D
21:20	Calinou	I guess the default password is effective at keeping players away :P
21:20	rubenwardy	16 days for me
21:20	rubenwardy	:OP
21:20	Calinou	perhaps too effective, even
21:21	Calinou	but it's written in the server name and description :/
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21:23	* Taose	briefly wonders if someone can redesign the "avatar"
21:23	MinetestBot	[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: httpfetch: Enable gzip support 21f3237 https://git.io/vFCSZ (2017-11-04T21:19:27Z)
21:23	Billre	What I wonder about are servers with 20 or more players, half of whom seem to be speaking spanish or portugues.
21:23	Taose	The blocky design makes me cringe. We could do better
21:24	Taose	South Americans are avid Mine Testers
21:24	rubenwardy	do you mean logo?
21:24	Taose	Possibly?
21:24	rubenwardy	or SAM
21:24	deltasquared	sfan5: sheet you weren't kidding
21:24	sfan5	why would i be
21:24	Taose	rofl
21:24	deltasquared	sfan5: I was'nt aware curl could handle that for you
21:25	deltasquared	it's cool, don't get me wrong
21:25	Taose	sfan5 is pro-coder. If curl couldn't handle that before, it can now.
21:26	deltasquared	"I will make it possible"
21:26	Krock	> implying library features can be implemented using 1 line in any project
21:27	Billre	Could it be possible for MT to have language translation for in-game items like signs?
21:27	deltasquared	raaaa firewors again
21:27	Krock	possible? yes. but who's going to translate it?
21:27	Taose	Google Translate?
21:28	Billre	I get a lot of foreign players who seem to give up when faced with english language instruction
21:28	sfan5	machine translation is terrible, especially for realtime interactions
21:28	Taose	So it'd make for some fun conversations...
21:29	sfan5	since those - unlike longer text - depend heavily on context which isn't available to the machine
21:29	Calinou	haha, I remember an Urban Terror engine mod adding Google Translate support to chat
21:30	deltasquared	Billre: the only way you'd really handle that is to have signs in the other languages. machine translation mangles the intent and context of the words
21:30	Calinou	Billre: considering Xanadu has a French sign which says "Ne pas jurer, detruire et relations amoureuses", I'm not very convinced
21:30	Billre	I did 16 translations for one sign once ... that was about 5 signs with 3 translations each.
21:30	Calinou	(I'm native French speaker, and that sentence makes zero sense)
21:30	deltasquared	Billre: if they were annoyed already, doing it via machine translation will annoy them more
21:30	Billre	lol
21:30	deltasquared	Calinou: what was it supposed to be translated from?
21:31	Billre	Sometimes I try chatting with them in their language but most still give up when faced with just English no signs and in greetings/instructions
21:31	Billre	on signs*
21:32	o11c	honestly, most foreign kids end up learning at least some English from movies/tv/games anyway
21:32	Billre	and yeah, I would use Google Translate - which is a pain as I can't copy from my browser to MT. I have to copy into a text file first then copy again
21:32	Calinou	deltasquared: "No swearing, griefing and dating" IIRC
21:32	o11c	since American culture is ubiquitous
21:32	Calinou	o11c: most is the keyword here :P
21:32	deltasquared	I'm probably not the best person to weigh in on this issue on account of my attitude of "speak english and don't talk in a language we cannot all interpret"
21:33	Calinou	in France, all culture that you see on TV or in games is localized
21:33	Calinou	French is the most localized-to language, and a direct consequence is that we're bad at English for the most part
21:33	Calinou	(I really am an exception, believe me)
21:34	Calinou	sfan5: also, hooray for gzip :)
21:34	Billre	A lot of spanish/portuguese players take the same attitude deltasquared but more like "if you won't bother to talk my language, I'm not playing your game"
21:34	Calinou	Billre: yeahâ€¦ it's "us vs them"
21:34	deltasquared	Billre: my response to that is "f!@# to you too"
21:35	Billre	Then the foul language mod kicks you? :d
21:35	deltasquared	Billre: if it were on a server I would probably use more formal language, but I'd be swearing in my head that's for sure
21:36	Calinou	swear filters are why I wear a smartwatch at all times
21:36	Billre	The joys of self-censoring ...
21:36	deltasquared	Calinou: I... what? halp
21:36	deltasquared	Billre: naw, it's more using words that better express your point
21:36	deltasquared	in this case anywa
21:36	deltasquared	*y
21:37	deltasquared	it makes me feel better to swear but it probably doesn't make the other person do so, so it's largely an unproductive way to get your point across
21:37	Calinou	deltasquared: the joke is that many swear filters block "smartwatch"
21:37	Calinou	due to some characters in that word :)
21:37	deltasquared	that's a very shitty filter.
21:37	Billre	honestly, I get tired of trying to figure out spanish or portuguese and would rather such players find their own server. I'm concerned more for players from countries not as well represented
21:38	rubenwardy	would be nice to have translations of common rules
21:38	rubenwardy	in all major languages
21:38	Billre	I've identified 16 languages for most MT players
21:39	Billre	And no, I can't list here off the top of my head. :D
21:41	Billre	I've seen some servers post rules in a couple other languages, but that's about it
21:41	Taose	16 languages for most players? Lets limit this to the top three...
21:41	Billre	The top three change according to time of day
21:42	Taose	So pick divide the day into three and pick the most popular language in that time slot
21:43	Taose	Did the swear filter get him?
21:43	Billre	The most spoken languages I've seen (besides English) are Spanish, Portuguese, German, Russian - in that order
21:43	Billre	lol
21:44	Billre	With Russian lately starting to edge out German
21:44	Taose	Goddamn commies...
21:44	Billre	lol
21:44	Taose	Coming over here
21:44	Taose	taking our minetest servers
21:44	Billre	hmmm .. language filter didn't get you ...
21:44	Taose	Goddamn not a curse word?
21:45		deltasquared joined #minetest
21:45	Taose	Welcome back
21:45	deltasquared	hmm, apologies for the rude interruption
21:45	deltasquared	having to rely on tethering is a bit of a pain, but I don't pay the wifi or eletricity bill
21:45	Billre	I've seen a few Asian players - but I can't remember their nationality atm
21:46	Taose	Philippines more than likely.
21:46	Billre	Yeah, that more than most ...
21:46	Taose	All in all, I'd probably go "English, Portuguese, Russian"
21:46	Billre	There's a few eastern european countries as well
21:47	Taose	They speak Russian
21:47	Taose	or at least...will do in a couple of years
21:47	Billre	mostly, but some do prefer to use their country's language - mostly the Balkan states
21:48	Billre	I almost never see anyone from Africa
21:48	o11c	that you know of
21:49	Billre	most people are usually forthcoming about where they are from
21:49	Billre	But that may get back to the issue of the devices that MT can be played on
21:49	deltasquared	question, will nodes set via set_node or voxelmanip always have the on_destruct (old) and on_construct (new) callbacks invoked?
21:50	deltasquared	always without fail, as it were
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22:08	paramat	vmanip never triggers callbacks, for speed
22:09	paramat	neither do schematics or biome API decoration placement
22:09	paramat	set node does i think
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23:21	Gerold55	Hey y'all
23:22	Gerold55	I need some help with my inventory mod
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23:48	MinetestBot	[git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Stairs: Set world-aligned textures for all stairs and slabs 9d9e9b6 https://git.io/vFCdy (2017-11-04T23:43:30Z)
23:48	MinetestBot	[git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest_game: Bookshelf: Count written and empty books dbfe435 https://git.io/vFCdS (2017-11-04T23:43:02Z)
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