| Time |
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Message |
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kaeza_ |
Greetings |
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* Taose |
waves |
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| 10:41 |
Calinou |
hi |
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| 11:01 |
chatter29 |
hey guys |
| 11:01 |
chatter29 |
allah is doing |
| 11:01 |
chatter29 |
sun is not doing allah is doing |
| 11:01 |
chatter29 |
to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger |
| 11:04 |
PureTryOut[m] |
I always wonder why the people behind those bots think people will actually convert from that |
| 11:09 |
sfan5 |
maybe they'll install gentoo |
| 11:21 |
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| 11:39 |
josema |
Hi all. Thank you |
| 11:51 |
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| 11:55 |
Markow |
Wow, I just viewed videos on the new Minetest Advanced Trains Mod, looks great. |
| 11:56 |
Markow |
This will really make MT even more enjoyable. |
| 12:07 |
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| 12:14 |
fireglow |
hey guys |
| 12:14 |
fireglow |
gentoo is doing |
| 12:14 |
fireglow |
debian is not doing gentoo is doing |
| 12:18 |
Calinou |
to accept Stallman say that you bear witness that…? |
| 12:18 |
Calinou |
:P |
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| 14:02 |
dzho |
PureTryOut[m]: or it could be a false flag thing to stir up resentment against Muslims? |
| 14:02 |
dzho |
or, you know, proselytizing religions don't require necessarily that you succeed, just that you make the attempt. |
| 14:03 |
PureTryOut[m] |
strange |
| 14:03 |
dzho |
if they put that out there, they've dont their part, and if you don't accept it, then it's on you. If you've never heard the pitch, then you can't be held responsible. This way, you can. Sort of like the Miranda reading (US) or the cautions (UK) |
| 14:04 |
dzho |
"would you like to play a game?" |
| 14:04 |
dzho |
"how about Eternal Damnation?" |
| 14:04 |
dzho |
"a strange game, the only winning move is not to play" |
| 14:05 |
dzho |
how about a nice game of minetest |
| 14:05 |
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| 15:00 |
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| 15:06 |
IhrFussel |
The "init packet" error is very misleading when players try to connect while the server is about to boot/shutdown ... it tells them that the server version would be too old (<0.4.13) which is not right |
| 15:07 |
IhrFussel |
Surely there must be a way to simply tell the client "Server is not ready yet" |
| 15:07 |
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| 15:13 |
sfan5 |
it tells that that it might be a possibility |
| 15:13 |
sfan5 |
not that it definitely is that way |
| 15:14 |
mmuller |
Interesting, I wonder if that's what I ran into yesterday. |
| 15:15 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, it doesn't matter, it's misleading...I have to read this stupid complaint all the time "hey i got an error telling that your server version is too old, please update" |
| 15:15 |
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| 15:16 |
IhrFussel |
It shouldn't be impossible to simply check WHAT exactly doesn't send/load and then tell the client accordingly |
| 15:16 |
sfan5 |
IhrFussel: maybe the message could be avoided for serverlist servers where we know their version... |
| 15:16 |
sfan5 |
it's not impossible |
| 15:16 |
sfan5 |
but telling the client "the server did not answer TOSERVER_INIT2" is not going to help anyone |
| 15:17 |
IhrFussel |
No that's why I said "The server isn't responding, please try again later" would be helpful |
| 15:18 |
IhrFussel |
Or any kind of "server cannot answer your request right now" ... the exact phrase wouldn't matter to me |
| 15:19 |
sfan5 |
that's too vague |
| 15:19 |
sfan5 |
the server could be down |
| 15:20 |
IhrFussel |
"The server ignored your request, please try again later"? |
| 15:21 |
sfan5 |
a "server" does not necessarily exist |
| 15:21 |
sfan5 |
you could be sending packets right into the void |
| 15:21 |
IhrFussel |
But the players refer to it as "server" since they want to connect to a "server" |
| 15:21 |
srifqi |
"The destination ignored your request, please try again later." (?) |
| 15:21 |
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| 15:22 |
IhrFussel |
Not sure what's wrong with using "server" you do the same already in the code when it experiences an internal error "This server experienced an internal error..." |
| 15:23 |
sfan5 |
that's something different |
| 15:23 |
sfan5 |
at this stage we don't even know where there actually IS any server to answer our request |
| 15:23 |
sfan5 |
whether |
| 15:23 |
sfan5 |
* |
| 15:24 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, so you're telling me there is NO WAY to first check the existance of the destination and THEN check the ready state? |
| 15:24 |
srifqi |
How about "destination"? |
| 15:24 |
sfan5 |
yes |
| 15:25 |
sfan5 |
you send a packet to somewhere |
| 15:25 |
sfan5 |
if the server answers: good |
| 15:25 |
sfan5 |
if not: there might not even be a server there, the packet might've been lost, the server might not be ready |
| 15:25 |
IhrFussel |
But the init packet error is different from "connection timed out" |
| 15:25 |
IhrFussel |
So the client must've communicated with the server already or not? |
| 15:25 |
sfan5 |
on the technical side: no |
| 15:26 |
IhrFussel |
Then how does it know the server exists but didn't send packet X? |
| 15:26 |
sfan5 |
it doesn't |
| 15:27 |
sfan5 |
that's just a possiblity |
| 15:30 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, that can't be .. I NEVER see this error when I try to connect to a server that's already down/not reachable, but I see it almost always when I try to connect WHILE the server is in its booting/shutdown process |
| 15:30 |
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| 15:30 |
sfan5 |
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 15:30 |
DS-minetest |
hi MinetestBot |
| 15:30 |
MinetestBot |
Hi DS-minetest |
| 15:30 |
fireglow |
hi DS-minetest |
| 15:31 |
DS-minetest |
Hi fireglow |
| 15:31 |
IhrFussel |
So I'm pretty sure there must be some form of communication between client <-> server BEFORE the server sends the init packet |
| 15:32 |
IhrFussel |
I'll open an issue about it now and I hope more people agree |
| 15:32 |
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| 15:32 |
srifqi |
Wait, Minetest doesn't have that communication "check"? |
| 15:34 |
IhrFussel |
srifqi, that is not possible since the client would just guess randomly whether it needs to show "connection timed out" or "init packet error" and that is incorrect |
| 15:35 |
IhrFussel |
When my client sees "server didn't send init packet" it already KNOWS the server is there but for some reason cannot respond |
| 15:37 |
srifqi |
Can we ping and/or check port? |
| 15:45 |
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| 15:47 |
IhrFussel |
In case anyone wonders why this is such a big deal: Did you ever use the biome_lib mod on your server? It can take a LONG TIME until your server actually shuts down when it crashes after several days |
| 15:47 |
fireglow |
yeah, I've noticed that. |
| 15:48 |
fireglow |
IhrFussel: are you saying the long delay is caused by biome_lib? |
| 15:48 |
IhrFussel |
Yes it even says that in the log..one sec |
| 15:49 |
fireglow |
hmm! |
| 15:51 |
IhrFussel |
fireglow, I can't find it right now cause I cleaned my log recently but it says something like "Playing out X trees, X plants" etc ... basically it wants to finish all the growth processes |
| 15:53 |
IhrFussel |
And the longer the mod ran the longer it will take to finish all those processes...of course the amount of players triggering those processes also matters |
| 15:53 |
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| 15:54 |
fireglow |
hmm! |
| 15:57 |
IhrFussel |
fireglow, there IS however a setting for the mod that disables this behavior but I'm not sure how risky it is |
| 15:57 |
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| 15:58 |
cx384 |
hi |
| 16:00 |
fireglow |
hmm |
| 16:00 |
IhrFussel |
The comment above the functions says "-- Play out the entire log all at once on shutdown to prevent unpopulated map areas" |
| 16:00 |
fireglow |
hi cx384 |
| 16:00 |
IhrFussel |
So if you want to risk unpopulated map areas you could disable it |
| 16:09 |
calculon |
IhrFussel, maybe a stupid idea, but i see many servers which automatically restart every day |
| 16:09 |
calculon |
probably for this kind of problem |
| 16:11 |
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| 16:18 |
IhrFussel |
calculon, I think the bigger problem is that players are seeing incorrect and misleading error messages when they want to join a server that currently has the biome_lib mod run on shutdown for example |
| 16:19 |
calculon |
i see |
| 16:20 |
IhrFussel |
Cause the client doesn't in any way tell them "sorry this server seems to be busy right now" instead it tells them "the server is likely very old please tell the admin to update" |
| 16:22 |
calculon |
ho yes, i sometimes see this message |
| 16:22 |
IhrFussel |
Well "busy" might be wrong too...but you get the idea I think: The client should tell the user that the server for SOME reason cannot respond |
| 16:22 |
calculon |
yep |
| 16:23 |
IhrFussel |
But at the same time the error message should make sure that the server EXISTS |
| 16:24 |
IhrFussel |
Cause if it doesn't exist the client shows "Connection timed out." which is fine |
| 16:25 |
IhrFussel |
Exist as in "reachable" of course the server may exist and the process may just not run on the machine |
| 16:26 |
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| 16:31 |
juli |
DS-minetest? |
| 16:33 |
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| 16:34 |
juli |
benrob0329__? |
| 16:34 |
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| 16:34 |
benrob0329__ |
juli? |
| 16:35 |
juli |
do u have read my answer on the mesecons issue? |
| 16:35 |
juli |
i mean why all people think digilines can be used everytime? |
| 16:35 |
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| 16:42 |
cx384 |
test123 |
| 16:42 |
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| 16:43 |
benrob0329__ |
juli: i guarentee you i could do something even more evil with mesecons |
| 16:43 |
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| 16:44 |
juli |
yeah but i know some servers which will never use digilines because of this |
| 16:45 |
juli |
and why i should not make such things useable also on such servers? |
| 16:45 |
cx384 |
Jungle server? |
| 16:46 |
juli |
yeah or mars server ... |
| 16:46 |
juli |
or buildersworld |
| 16:47 |
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| 16:59 |
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| 17:09 |
sfan5 |
huh til minetest forks exist on other platforms than mobile: https://mrcerealguy.itch.io/stonecraft |
| 17:10 |
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| 17:11 |
Calinou |
"Thanks a lot to the minetest community, to "Notch" the creator of Minecraft and to Linus Torvalds, the creator of the free operating system Linux." |
| 17:11 |
Calinou |
lol |
| 17:11 |
Calinou |
Google Forms for bug reporting |
| 17:11 |
Calinou |
lol² |
| 17:12 |
Calinou |
Flickr for image albums |
| 17:12 |
Calinou |
lol³ |
| 17:17 |
nore |
Yet another GPL fork :/ |
| 17:18 |
sfan5 |
umm it says lgpl |
| 17:19 |
|
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| 17:19 |
PureTryOut[m] |
I wonder how that fork will be different |
| 17:19 |
IhrFussel |
Why would you thank Notch for Infiniminer though? |
| 17:20 |
nore |
It does? |
| 17:20 |
sfan5 |
nore: "Stonecraft is open-source and free, released under the GNU Lesser General Public License (LGPL)." |
| 17:21 |
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| 17:21 |
nore |
sfan5: hmm, ok |
| 17:21 |
nore |
Also, lol: https://github.com/MrCerealGuy/Stonecraft/issues/7 |
| 17:22 |
nore |
It looks like it's another "let's throw lots of mods together and rebrand it" |
| 17:22 |
Krock |
that font is almost readable |
| 17:22 |
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| 17:23 |
PureTryOut[m] |
I wonder why he would fork MT if he isn't going to change anything to the base |
| 17:23 |
nore |
Also, lol² they added a C++ mod API then removed it |
| 17:24 |
Calinou |
it's not like that fork has added value anyway |
| 17:25 |
PureTryOut[m] |
s/they/he |
| 17:25 |
PureTryOut[m] |
and that cpp "mod" was just Lua code with the ".cpp" extension |
| 17:26 |
Calinou |
commit message of the year: https://github.com/MrCerealGuy/Stonecraft/commit/ffb779cd3d45c6ef194f5a1412d7c38a986f17ea |
| 17:26 |
IhrFussel |
Couldn't ANY casual really fork Minetest without even knowing what they're doing? |
| 17:27 |
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| 17:28 |
PureTryOut[m] |
ooh god https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzgse6PZPss |
| 17:28 |
sfan5 |
!title |
| 17:28 |
MinetestBot |
sfan5: MINECRAFT BUT NOT REALLY - YouTube |
| 17:28 |
nore |
/* WARNING: This file was automatically generated by lua2c. */ lolwat |
| 17:29 |
nore |
every single "cpp mod" looks like that |
| 17:30 |
IhrFussel |
Guys it has happened 3 times now since yesterday that my Minetest server SUDDENLY let's everyone time out without crashing ... the logs state "2017-05-01 19:27:26: ERROR[Server]: Got packet command: 65 for peer id 248 but client isn't active yet. Dropping packet" ... when it happened the first time I thought maybe my hoster lost internet connection, but now I'm not sure anymore |
| 17:32 |
sfan5 |
nore: link? |
| 17:33 |
sfan5 |
IhrFussel: run a RelWithDebInfo build and run it in gdb |
| 17:33 |
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| 17:33 |
nore |
https://github.com/MrCerealGuy/Stonecraft/commit/764c25e59a4354f3c29c1e00e0ede0e5bc49eab9#diff-ad0cbf8e7db92efa6d524bf6ad89d982 |
| 17:33 |
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| 17:34 |
PureTryOut[m] |
the hell, there are actually people playing that thing |
| 17:34 |
sfan5 |
and that worked o.O? |
| 17:36 |
PureTryOut[m] |
I guess it didn't, which is probably why he removed it |
| 17:39 |
Krock |
this guy must have spent quite much time in implementing that |
| 17:39 |
nore |
(however, having a *real* C++ API might be useful, although not easy and definitely needed thinking about security) |
| 17:40 |
sfan5 |
Krock: not really, it looks like he just thread a conversion script at it |
| 17:40 |
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| 17:40 |
PureTryOut[m] |
sfan5++ |
| 17:40 |
IhrFussel |
nore, < 1 % of people would use it I imagine |
| 17:40 |
Krock |
yeah, the formatting is horrible and nothing really commented |
| 17:40 |
sfan5 |
s/thread/threw/ |
| 17:41 |
nore |
Krock: yeah, it's a conversion script (lua2c as said in the comment at the top) |
| 17:41 |
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| 17:41 |
Krock |
apparently I can't read :3 |
| 17:42 |
nore |
but I mean, that's completely useless |
| 17:42 |
nore |
it's probably even worse for execution time if you use luaJIT |
| 17:42 |
sfan5 |
yeah |
| 17:43 |
nore |
I mean luaJIT is *fast* |
| 17:43 |
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| 17:44 |
nore |
the almost only advantages of a C++ API would be not having the memory limit, the cost of the gc, and having integers and not these *** floating point numbers everywhere |
| 17:44 |
nore |
(also, faster API calls) |
| 17:44 |
sfan5 |
lua 5.3 has true ints |
| 17:44 |
sfan5 |
but yeah a c++ api might be nice for some niches |
| 17:46 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, does Minetest use 5.3 now? |
| 17:46 |
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| 17:47 |
sfan5 |
minetest can't use anything above lua 5.1 |
| 17:47 |
IhrFussel |
Cause of Irrlicht? |
| 17:47 |
PureTryOut[m] |
"fast", but seemingly not fast enough to make a minimap... |
| 17:47 |
sfan5 |
no that's unrelated to irrlicht |
| 17:48 |
nore |
PureTryOut[m]: it would be |
| 17:48 |
IhrFussel |
Deprecated functions? |
| 17:48 |
nore |
but there is no API for drawing textures |
| 17:48 |
PureTryOut[m] |
nore: I got told like a few days ago that it's not |
| 17:48 |
nore |
so you have to use hacks with composing one image per pixel and this is slow |
| 17:49 |
nore |
PureTryOut[m]: link? |
| 17:49 |
PureTryOut[m] |
eeuh sorry no |
| 17:49 |
PureTryOut[m] |
somewhere in the IRC logs probably |
| 17:50 |
Calinou |
IhrFussel: LuaJIT is on 5.1 (and plans to implement 5.2?) currently: http://luajit.org/ |
| 17:50 |
Calinou |
and LuaJIT is where it's at for us, so… |
| 17:50 |
sfan5 |
luajit implements parts of 5.2 |
| 17:52 |
IhrFussel |
Calinou, and LuaJIT is essential for Minetest? Cause I see "just disable LuaJIT" in a lot of threads |
| 17:53 |
sfan5 |
it's not essential |
| 17:53 |
sfan5 |
it speeds up mods a lot, however it has some limitations that can break stuff |
| 17:54 |
IhrFussel |
Does it speed up EVERY function or certain ones? |
| 17:54 |
sfan5 |
it helps with everything |
| 18:04 |
Calinou |
yeah, almost nothing is slowed down by LuaJIT, it's only a plus |
| 18:07 |
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| 18:36 |
kaeza |
Greetings |
| 18:40 |
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| 18:50 |
Out`Of`Control |
hi |
| 18:53 |
MinetestBot |
[git] timsoftgit -> minetest/minetest_game: Stairs: Add snowblock and ice stairs and slabs 519d166 https://git.io/v98mg (2017-05-01T18:48:54Z) |
| 18:53 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Ferk -> minetest/minetest_game: TNT: Gunpowder (and tnt.burn) will trigger the on_ignite of nodes be91212 https://git.io/v98m2 (2017-05-01T18:38:38Z) |
| 18:53 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sofar -> minetest/minetest_game: Improve Chest appearance - opening chests. 011ad78 https://git.io/v98ma (2017-05-01T18:36:35Z) |
| 18:54 |
cx384 |
Dose the minetest developing work like a banana principle? What do you think? |
| 18:55 |
sfan5 |
what is this "banana principle" |
| 18:56 |
cx384 |
this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_beta |
| 18:56 |
Calinou |
Minetest Banana 0.4.15 |
| 18:56 |
fireglow |
I'm waiting for melons |
| 18:56 |
Krock |
Bananatest 0.5.0 |
| 18:57 |
Calinou |
More Bananas [morebananas] |
| 18:57 |
Krock |
cx384, that's very common in rolling release projects, like on Git |
| 18:57 |
cx384 |
oh ok |
| 18:58 |
Calinou |
stability is not very much of an issue in games |
| 18:58 |
Calinou |
which is why development versions are often used |
| 18:58 |
Calinou |
"this is a game, not a banking application", a wise man once said |
| 18:58 |
Krock |
RMS? |
| 18:58 |
fireglow |
a _wise_ man |
| 18:58 |
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kaeza |
kek |
| 18:58 |
Krock |
rms is wise |
| 18:59 |
Krock |
he's god |
| 18:59 |
Calinou |
not RMS :) |
| 18:59 |
fireglow |
pity, Krock |
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Fixer |
Alohatest |
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MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest_game: Fix merging mistake (crash in "stairs") ec295a0 https://git.io/v98s7 (2017-05-01T19:23:44Z) |
| 19:28 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest_game: Fix merging mistake (crash in "stairs") 6737952 https://git.io/v98GZ (2017-05-01T19:26:10Z) |
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paramat |
stonecraft is stuffed full of heavy mods, but 'Fast and able to run on old and slow hardware' and 'lightning-fast map generator' |
| 20:05 |
paramat |
'near-infinite voxel world' |
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| 20:07 |
paramat |
crumbs our website says 'near-infinite' too =/ |
| 20:07 |
paramat |
even worse than 'infinite' |
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Fixer |
while most of server population lives within like 1000x1000 area, you can easily travel to 32000 |
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| 22:00 |
Fixer |
minetest is permanent beta and minetest_game is permanent alpha /s |
| 22:01 |
sfan5 |
yes |
| 22:01 |
Fixer |
i've carefully added /s |
| 22:01 |
Fixer |
but it is not trully /s |
| 22:01 |
Fixer |
but half of /s |
| 22:05 |
Calinou |
we're not beta testing, we're performing Consumer Previews |
| 22:06 |
Calinou |
and Early Access |
| 22:07 |
fireglow |
mods are DLC |
| 22:07 |
fireglow |
welcome to EA |
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| 23:11 |
* tiwake |
pokes cheapie over here too |
| 23:11 |
cheapie |
Hi. |
| 23:12 |
cheapie |
If you point your IRC client at daconcepts.com (I think irc.inchra.chat might work too) and join #ve-servers, you should end up there. |
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