IRC log for #minetest, 2017-01-16

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00:45	Wayward_One	Another spammer: https://forum.minetest.net/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=20414&sid=bec09ddded073dd0f3cc4852e7f57a42
00:49	Fixer	have you reported it?
00:50	Fixer	ok, it is
00:50	Fixer	my... so much ad trash going to minetest forums
00:50	Fixer	scumbags
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00:51	Fixer	have a good night
01:11	rubenwardy	please may a moderator lock this topic: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3829&start=75
01:11	rubenwardy	and split out the recent discussion
01:44	MinetestBot	[git] sofar -> minetest/minetest_game: Revert "Doors: Remove ..." and "Doors: Allow the screwdriver to ..." 6dcf541 https://git.io/vMrZE (2017-01-16T01:43:17Z)
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02:44	sweBers	Hello! I wanted to look at the monster models (better understand them), but it looks like they're in a proprietary format (b3d). What can I use to inspect them better?
02:48	freelikegnu	many model are available as .blend here: https://github.com/NPXcoot/Nssm-models-textures-sounds/tree/master/models
02:49	sweBers	HAH, thanks!
02:49	freelikegnu	np
02:52	sweBers	I was trying to open up dirt monster/Stone monster models
02:54	sweBers	And those aren't in there. Is there a way to get those to open via blender, or since they're more or less simple enough should I go ahead and try modeling them myself?
03:00	thePalindrome	I personally would suggest trying to model them yourself
03:01	sweBers	I think I like that Idea better.
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03:56	sweBers	:( I will fumble with it later. Having trouble actually controlling the tool. More tuts later.
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04:18	XeonSquared	argh
04:18	XeonSquared	race condition
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10:04	JamesTait	Good morning all, and happy Blue Monday! ðŸ˜
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11:41	yusf[m]	Anyone tried digtron mod yet? It's amazingly good.
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13:02	rubenwardy	please may a moderator lock this topic: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3829&start=75
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13:05	VanessaE	done.
13:09	rubenwardy	thanks!
13:09	Fixer	uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
13:10	Fixer	So I went traveling in minetest to a location, and suddenly fell down under block due to that falling through block bug, now i'm stuck underground, without tools too, and need to rewalk 700 nodes again
13:11	Fixer	:/
13:12	juhdanad	Falling trough block bug?
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13:46	Fixer	yes
13:46	Fixer	through
13:47	Fixer	!tell juhdanad yes, this one: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4621
13:47	MinetestBot	Fixer: I'll pass that on when juhdanad is around
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13:52	Taose	>.> never watched Babylon 5 before. Great show.
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15:05	MinetestBot	juhdanad: Jan-16 13:47 UTC <Fixer> yes, this one: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4621
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15:36	IhrFussel	Today I noticed that it's a BAD IDEA to display rules as a formspec...why? Because different screens have different scales and some smaller screens (eg phones) see only part of the formspec
15:37	IhrFussel	And the GUI scaling settings is now hidden in the advanced settings so most users with incorrect scale value won't find it...great
15:37	sfan5	just don're write twenty pages of rules
15:39	IhrFussel	sfan5, my /rules formspec is exactly 1 page but some rules are a bit longer and take the whole line on my phone
15:40	IhrFussel	And it's not only my formspec..one user told me he couldn't use the saw from "moreblocks" cause of this scale issue...is there no way to get the screen size + resolution of the device and adjust the scale? In c++ I mean
15:42	exio4	anybody from Brazil? I want to know the price of normal things over there
15:42	IhrFussel	The person who complained about the saw issue also said he could NOT even navigate the advanced settings window cause everything was too large...the buttons to edit or cancel were OUTSIDE of the screen
15:43	IhrFussel	IMO that's a huge flaw if some devices cannot display the game settings correctly
15:44	exio4	(milk, snacks, cheese, meat, common fruits like apples, etc :P)
15:44	IhrFussel	I had to explain to him how he can edit the .conf file manually...this is unacceptable
15:47	IhrFussel	And I will file an issue regarding that now
15:51	Fixer	IhrFussel: ugh... probably some guy on 320*255 device :trollface:
15:51	Fixer	i guess we need Minetest port to WinCE :}
15:51	Fixer	PPC 2003 :}
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15:52	IhrFussel	Fixer, no it happened on a relatively recent 5" smartphone
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15:56	octacian	How do I get the texture of the block a player punches?
15:56	octacian	Right now I'm getting the nodedef then using tiles, but it doesn't seem very reliable.
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16:10	MinetestBot	[git] rubenwardy -> minetest/minetest: Rename ObjectRef methods to be consistent and predictable 63c892e https://git.io/vMoa2 (2017-01-16T15:34:44Z)
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16:14	Fixer	IhrFussel: 5" smartphone? Who on earth will play on that? Seriously...........;
16:15	IhrFussel	Fixer, Average smartphone screen size is 4 - 4.5"
16:15	rubenwardy	I'm planning on looking into GUI scaling on smartphones at some point
16:15	rubenwardy	however formspecs are inherently unresponsive
16:15	rubenwardy	so it's difficult
16:16	rubenwardy	Maybe media queries could be a thing for node meta inventories
16:17	rubenwardy	and for formspec_send it could send the proper one
16:17	IhrFussel	rubenwardy, it would be awesome if the menu scale could just be fixed first so that players can at least navigate the advanced settings...server queries have a lower priority
16:17	rubenwardy	inoptimal though, would be much better to have proper layouting
16:17	rubenwardy	yeah
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16:18	IhrFussel	The players can adjust the gui scale themselves and change all other options they need...and AFAIK GUI scale also affects the server contents
16:19	IhrFussel	Then the players*
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16:23	Fixer	IhrFussel: but why would you play minetest/minecraft on 4" screen?
16:23	Fixer	it is like shitting on Everest
16:23	rdococ	sounds like the tiniest everest ever
16:23	Fixer	very uncomfortable
16:24	Fixer	i consider this mazohism
16:25	rubenwardy	It's not that bad
16:25	Fixer	in my time it was this: https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4122/161056488.9c/0_ac8a8_18e3c08f_orig.jpg
16:26	Fixer	and this https://xage.ru/media/uploads/2015/05/gadzhrt/1.jpg
16:26	rubenwardy	if we used a dial rather than <^>v it would be better imo
16:26	Fixer	and zx spectrum clone + TV
16:27	Fixer	but that was 2d...
16:27	agaran	there were no 4" TVs ;)
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16:28	Fixer	i had about 30" greyscale or smth like
16:28	Fixer	CRT ofc
16:28	IhrFussel	I play Minetest almost only on Android...the app got improved quite a bit since 0.4.12 and it feels alright
16:29	rubenwardy	Please feel free to make a shit ton of issues for Android, IhrFussel
16:29	rubenwardy	We need more feedback :D
16:29	Fixer	haha
16:29	Fixer	796 issues is not enough
16:29	Fixer	oh lol
16:30	Fixer	i remember it 600 just recently iirc
16:30	IhrFussel	rubenwardy, I had to file 4 issues so far...so not a lot :P
16:33	Fixer	rubenwardy: btw notice how tabs override on top of MINETEST https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/2122943/21989822/49821088-dc04-11e6-85e9-371f5eee7b1e.png
16:33	rubenwardy	yeah, that's irritating
16:41	IhrFussel	Can I simply remove minetest.add_particlespawner() from the code in paramat's "nether" mod if I don't want that without breaking something?
16:42	IhrFussel	Sorry I mean PilzAdam*
16:43	IhrFussel	https://github.com/PilzAdam/nether/blob/master/init.lua#L249
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16:44	red-001	looks like MSVC build is broken
16:44	red-001	should be fairly easy to fix
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16:49	Taose	Wouldn't it be nice if we could label bags...
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16:51	red-001	or not...
16:51	red-001	looks like msvc messed up
16:51	Fixer	not possible currently I think
16:52	Taose	mmm...
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16:53	Taose	Which reminds me
16:53	Taose	I asked a question yesterday...
16:53	Taose	is it possible to put a node onto an entity?
16:54	Taose	Say...
16:54	Taose	a boat
16:54	Taose	like a lump of dirt?
16:54	red-001	no?
16:54	Taose	dammit
16:54	Fixer	no idea
16:54	red-001	not really sure what you mean
16:54	red-001	like drop it?
16:54	Taose	Lets say I build a boat and my inventory is...full with other things
16:55	Taose	and I wanna put one block of dirt onto the boat (i.e place it)
16:55	red-001	well I think it might be possible to add an inventory
16:55	red-001	maybe
16:55	Taose	>.> I want to build a House Boat.
16:55	Taose	that I can move.
16:56	red-001	not possible
16:56	IhrFussel	Guys what happens if I replace a mod directory with another while the server is running?
16:56	Taose	Dammit.
16:56	red-001	nothing?
16:56	red-001	I mean the mods and textures are already loaded
16:56	Taose	Ihr, you have reload the mods to get it to show an effect.
16:56	rubenwardy	depends if the mod tries to access one of their files
16:57	rubenwardy	usually nothing
16:57	red-001	^
16:57	rubenwardy	but it's possible the mod accesses a config file every so often
16:57	rubenwardy	but I haven't heard of that
16:57	IhrFussel	So are the mod files loaded into RAM?
16:57	rubenwardy	basically
16:57	red-001	those sort of things should be in the world directory anyway
16:57	rubenwardy	the textures are already loaded into ram and given to the players
16:58	rubenwardy	the init files are run, and any globals are in ram
16:58	red-001	yeah the code is complied to lua bytecode and loaded in the lua vm
16:58	Taose	I wonder if it's possible to load some things into Swap instead, like for instance config files
16:58	red-001	well yeah, but why?
16:58	Taose	Save RAM
16:59	red-001	not really
16:59	red-001	you would need to waste a lot of ram and cpu loading the setting file
16:59	Taose	hm
17:00	red-001	the minetest load config file function is quite complex
17:01	IhrFussel	Oh yes it is...I didn't even find one person till this day that could absolutely tell me which config settings are only updated on restart and which are updated in realtime (like max_users)
17:01	Taose	But yeah, it's a shame about the entity thing
17:01	Taose	A few cool ideas just went up in smoke.
17:03	red-001	pretty sure they are saved in real time
17:03	red-001	(or close to)
17:04	red-001	but they are only loaded when minetest starts
17:04	IhrFussel	red-001, most settings only apply when you restart the engine, a few get updated in realtime
17:04	Taose	I would have thought something like Max_Users would be server start only thing
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17:05	IhrFussel	Taose, nope I use it whenever my server gets unexpected user spikes... /set max_users NEWVALUE
17:05	red-001	IhrFussel i'm talking about changes in config files
17:06	red-001	if you where to change max-users in the config file, I'm pretty sure it would have on effect
17:06	IhrFussel	Yeah well the files themselves only are loaded when you initialize the engine
17:07	IhrFussel	Unless you use some hack...I saw somewhere a method to load new Lua scripts in runtime
17:07	red-001	It could be a good idea to tag which settings can be changed without restarting
17:07	Taose	Could I assign an inventory to different parts of any entity?
17:08	red-001	yeah it's possible to create code at run time in lua
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17:08	red-001	with the loadstring command I believe
17:09	Taose	Oh I don't mean as the game is playing.
17:09	Taose	I just meant could it be done at all.
17:09	red-001	pretty sure mod security blocks loadstring
17:09	red-001	or at least the bytecode loading part of it
17:09	Taose	?
17:10	red-001	?
17:10	IhrFussel	Here's the method I saw https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4988#issuecomment-270467196
17:10	Taose	So I can't register an entity with multiple inventories depending on which part you "use" (once it's been placed of course)
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17:11	red-001	I still don't really understand what ... in lua means
17:12	Taose	Lets take a boat for an example.
17:12	Taose	Register(Boat:Boat) with an Inventory at Aft and one at Bow
17:12	Taose	OnUse (check if bow, if bow access bow inventory)
17:13	IhrFussel	red-001, "The three dots (...) in the parameter list indicate that the function has a variable number of arguments."
17:14	IhrFussel	https://www.lua.org/pil/5.2.html
17:14	red-001	and passing it to another function means passing all those arguments?
17:17	Taose	...are there two conversations going on?
17:18	agaran	if only two then channel is quiet..
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17:21	Taose	and now it's dead
17:21	agaran	yup, seems protocol error..
17:21	IhrFussel	agaran, btw it was actually really just the VPS...since I moved to the dedi almost all lag spikes are gone
17:21	agaran	connection resed by pear ;)
17:22	agaran	IhrFussel: I once probably mentioned that possiblity but good to hear that it is working well now
17:22	Taose	Now you just need a faster dedi
17:22	agaran	then faster cluster;)
17:22	agaran	minetest-cloud ;0
17:22	Taose	I good old 3.2Ghz I7
17:22	Taose	I don't think a cluster would be any good
17:22	Taose	Mintest doesn't do multi-core as is
17:23	IhrFussel	No thanks...I'm not willing to pay any more than now... players will have to accept the rare spikes xP
17:24	Taose	Who are you hosting with anyway?
17:24	IhrFussel	My hoster is Strato (most popular German server hoster)
17:25	Taose	ah
17:25	IhrFussel	https://www.strato.de/server/linux-root-server/ <<< I have the D100
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17:27	agaran	Taose: thats why it needs more improvements, and I was fooling I bit
17:27	agaran	I wish mt could utilize multicores properly and that I could get one of work beasts to internets for a trip.. 320 xeon cores, 2TB ram pool would make it fun..
17:29	Taose	It would in the mean time, we're limited to an i7
17:30	* Taose	looks at the processor speeds...
17:30	Taose	it's basically intel or bust
17:30	sfan5	AMD should be releasing some good stuff soon though
17:31	agaran	i have dual xeon 8core/16thread boxes, 10 of them.
17:32	Taose	Are any servers actually close to maxing out the i7?
17:32	Taose	I'd imagine it takes a lot of players
17:32	agaran	so that would be rather enough to run an instance of MT..
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17:32	Taose	several instances agaran
17:32	Taose	assuming your ram can keep up
17:33	agaran	128-256G mem per box..
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17:33	IhrFussel	Taose, I doubt it, look at my "weak" dedi and even with 35 players its load goes barely over 1,00
17:33	Taose	your nost hosting a server farm because?
17:33	agaran	no.. it is one of my work envs..
17:33	Taose	X)
17:34	agaran	but it would be fun to take it to internets and run MT for example.. and see how much mesecons mess it can handle (assuming proper multicore)
17:34	Taose	What's the bandwidth (up/down) like Ihr?
17:35	Taose	(contemplating home hosting >.>)
17:36	IhrFussel	All machines by Strato have 1gbit/s so ~ 95 MB/sec
17:36	Taose	Mib/s or MB/s?
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17:36	Taose	(there's a difference)
17:36	IhrFussel	1 GB is downloaded in 15 secs xD
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17:37	sfan5	â€¢ Unit conversions: 533.3 Mb/s (megabits per second)
17:37	Taose	Mibs != Mb/s
17:38	Taose	(I have to convert everything nowadays because some ... decided that they wanted to "offset" everything by a certain amount and call it a different name)
17:38	sfan5	nobody uses mibibytes or mebibytes
17:38	Taose	We don't
17:38	Taose	ISPs
17:38	Taose	do
17:38	sfan5	ISPs use megabits
17:38	Taose	Not mine
17:38	Fixer	1gbit is 125mb/sec top it seems
17:39	Fixer	1000/8
17:39	IhrFussel	Fixer, yes but I only reach 95-98
17:40	IhrFussel	I have a 16.000 KBIT/s connection here at home...
17:40	Fixer	16mbit
17:41	IhrFussel	16 / 8 = 2 ... but I get max 1.5 MB/s
17:42	IhrFussel	Do any of you have such a slow connection? Or even slower? Here in Germany I feel like most people have 25mbit or even 50
17:42	Taose	I have a 32Mb/s down and 6Mb/s up
17:44	rom1504	I have 1Gb/s down and 200Mb/s up
17:44	sfan5	IhrFussel: germany is far behind when it comes to internet speeds, 16mbits is very common
17:44	IhrFussel	rom1504, at HOME?
17:44	Taose	He's probably in Sweden
17:44	Taose	or Estonia
17:44	sfan5	or romania
17:44	rom1504	IhrFussel: yes
17:44	rom1504	france
17:44	Taose	o.O
17:44	Taose	damn
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17:45	Taose	Unfortunately < FTTP outside of reach ._.
17:45	Fixer	sfan5: behind who?
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17:46	IhrFussel	sfan5, what's funny is that I'm in BERLIN...the capital and they only offer 16mbit here tops? That is silly
17:46	sfan5	Fixer: behing most other EU/european countries
17:46	sfan5	IhrFussel: deutsche telekom has FTTH in berlin, check their website
17:46	sfan5	there's also probably a local provider for berlin
17:46	sfan5	like netcologne for kÃ¶ln
17:46	celeron55	i have about 10-20 Mbit down, 1 Mbit up at home in finland
17:47	IhrFussel	I'm stuck with Vodafone for now -.- (schufa)
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17:58	Fixer	2 down / 3 up
17:58	Fixer	._.
17:59	IhrFussel	More upload bandwith than download bandwith?? How's that possible
18:00	Taose	I assume that's in "bits" Fixer ;)
18:00	Taose	Depends on the ISP
18:00	Fixer	mbits
18:00	Taose	Some companies cater specifically to upload speeds.
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18:15	IhrFussel	Can one run 2 servers with the same IP?
18:16	VanessaE	sure, just put them on different ports.
18:16	VanessaE	I host something like 10 minetest instances on one IP
18:17	VanessaE	(four are ones I directly run, others belong to other folks for whom I just host)
18:17	IhrFussel	VanessaE, are there any "dangerous" ports you should never use? Or which ones would you recommend?
18:18	VanessaE	just avoid the usual ports that other apps/services use e.g. port 80 is http for example.
18:18	VanessaE	it's recommended to use something in the 30000-39999 range
18:18	VanessaE	typically just start at the bottom and work your way up as you add more instances.
18:18	IhrFussel	So I could just run one server on 30000 and another on 30001?
18:19	VanessaE	yep
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18:20	IhrFussel	Wow so you could theoretically run over 10,000 servers on one machine
18:20	VanessaE	if you could keep your resources well-enough organized, sure
18:20	red-001	you can run as many servers as you have open ports
18:20	red-001	and resources
18:20	VanessaE	in practice, you can run roughly four servers per GB or CPU core, thereabouts.
18:20	red-001	the chances are you will run out of the latter a lot faster
18:21	IhrFussel	I think the RAM consumption without any custom mods is about 50 MB right?
18:21	VanessaE	https://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/stats-daily.html
18:21	VanessaE	see here for a practical example
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18:21	VanessaE	there are 10 server instances tracked on that page, plus I'm sure there are a few more that aren't tracked
18:22	VanessaE	you can see how RAM, CPU, and disk all behave. the spike between 0700 and 0800 is the nightly backup script
18:22	VanessaE	which does a lot of tasks like ...well.. making backups :P as well as generating interactive overview maps, making downloadable copies of the worlds, uploading files to offsite FTP, and some other stuff.
18:24	IhrFussel	VanessaE, nice graphs...well I'm not planning to run 10 or more instances on my machine xD was just curious about running multiple at once
18:24	VanessaE	(the data is gathered and organized by a number of standard Linux tools like iostat, top, rrdtool, etc. Player counts are gathered by scraping the debug logs)
18:25	VanessaE	heh ok
18:25	IhrFussel	Do you use grep for the debug logs? Or is there a faster tool?
18:26	VanessaE	grep, echo, cut, and wc
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18:26	VanessaE	https://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/Server-scripts/
18:27	VanessaE	(see the "watchlogs.sh" one at the bottom)
18:27	Fixer	VanessaE: your stats are valuable
18:28	Fixer	VanessaE: seems cpu and mem usage are about the same within 20DEC-16JAN
18:28	VanessaE	yep
18:29	Fixer	VanessaE: can you keep yearly statistics? some raw data with day avg incl players played... will be useful to compare between versions
18:29		DuCake joined #minetest
18:29	VanessaE	nah, not gonna bother going that far back
18:31	Fixer	yearly stats https://linuxiuvat.de/stats/mt/
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18:32	Fixer	on yggdrasil server
18:36	IhrFussel	I wonder how many servers have an overview site like this: http://bit.do/ihrfussel
18:39	IhrFussel	I admit it's not the best design/layout but I tried my best lol...if someone has any suggestions to improve it let me know
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18:43	Sokomine	ah. thanks for adding the search field to the server list! that's a feature i've long been waiting for
18:45	rubenwardy	:D
18:45	rubenwardy	Search bar for advanced settings coming soon too
18:46	agaran	search in 4.15 or post?
18:46	rubenwardy	it's in 0.4.15-dev
18:46	Taose	Which -dev
18:47	Taose	I have e2e8da5
18:47	Taose	(Minetest 0.4.15-dev-e2...
18:47	Taose	)
18:47	rubenwardy	it wasm merged tomorrow
18:47	Taose	...
18:47	rubenwardy	oops, the other one
18:47	rubenwardy	yesterday
18:47	rubenwardy	f3bd4c405df6bce64b7a98789d825eeac9c279b2
18:48	Taose	I'm going to have to take a moment to get all the giggles out...
18:49	Taose	At least now we know how the devs perceive time...
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18:50	rubenwardy	only 43000 seconds out
18:51	rubenwardy	Sokomine: also, a small layout tweak is coming: https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/2122943/21989822/49821088-dc04-11e6-85e9-371f5eee7b1e.png
18:51	rubenwardy	removes the ugly blank space
18:51	Taose	You should use the Lorem Ipsum generator
18:52	rubenwardy	effort
18:52	rubenwardy	:D
18:52	Taose	^ in true dev fashion
18:52	rubenwardy	I do for web design
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19:04	TelepathicVampir	Hi, i want to check if the player is exposed to the sun. Has anyone done this before? I think i would have to loop through all node above the player and see if they are 'transparent'..
19:05	Taose	Check the "Sunburn" mod
19:09	agaran	Taose: so now you know all common mods?
19:09	strncpy	TelepathicVampir: I thought the sun had the highest light level
19:09	Taose	?
19:09	Taose	No
19:09	strncpy	so blocks could only emit a lesser light level
19:09	strncpy	therefore a a light level above a certain threshold would be sunlight
19:10	Taose	Hellno. It's just, that's a likely place to check for sunlight checking...
19:10	Taose	(I have read the Minetest Customizing page though)
19:10	Taose	(about it)
19:12	Taose	Are meselamps a lower level of light then?
19:12	agaran	with last version you can't get > maxlight at all
19:20	TelepathicVampir	sunburn also uses light level
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19:21	Taose	But it should be set at a rate that only the sun can produce
19:21	Taose	so
19:22	TelepathicVampir	ok, i got it
19:22	TelepathicVampir	it seemed there might be a possible for nodes to emit more or equal
19:22	TelepathicVampir	but it's not possible engine-wise?
19:22	Taose	(much easier than cycling through all the nodes XD)
19:22	TelepathicVampir	that for sure ;)
19:23	Taose	It's possible
19:24	Taose	Any reason why you're after sunlight specifically?
19:24	TelepathicVampir	for my survival mod, to see if there's increase in temperatures and also delight from being in the sun..light
19:25	TelepathicVampir	so nodes emitting light would definetly interfere
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19:25	Taose	Increase in temperature is fine, just tie to standard light level. If a node is producing more light than the sun... you have other problems
19:25	Taose	Delight from being in the sun is a different matter.
19:26	fwhcat	Oops: http://minetest.fwhost.eu/screenshot_20170116_200554.png
19:26	TelepathicVampir	then only cycling through all nodes above is left huh
19:26	fwhcat	never recruit noob admins and give them worldedit
19:26	Taose	Pretty much
19:26	fwhcat	^^
19:26	Taose	>.>
19:26	Taose	There was someone who did very much the same yesterday...
19:26	MinetestBot	[git] rubenwardy -> minetest/minetest: Adjust formspec spacing on the Client tab of the mainmenu d2f5732 https://git.io/vMKeG (2017-01-16T18:56:04Z)
19:27	Taose	Incorrect map merge I assume?
19:27	fwhcat	ouch Taose
19:27	fwhcat	nope, they did it on purpose, but the positions weren't right.
19:27	Taose	>_<
19:28	fwhcat	and now i can't rollback it and i won't change the map because I did it 2 days ago
19:28	Taose	A lesson in why you should always have a dev server to practise on first >.<
19:28	fwhcat	yeah
19:28	Taose	How old is the map?
19:29	fwhcat	2 days
19:29	Taose	Reload the seed ;)
19:29	fwhcat	I imported some buildings from our previous
19:29	fwhcat	yeah ...
19:29	fwhcat	I guess i'll do that since we only have 2 days of players
19:30	Taose	I mean you could try to repair it by
19:30	Taose	Loading the seed in a new world with all the mods, grabbing the area and then dropping it back in.
19:30	IhrFussel	I would never give anyone WE or other potentially critical privs after a few days...
19:31	DuCake	Taose - I have not tried this but maybe check for max light on your target node, and also on neighbouring nodes? If you have anode that has max light, and 2 neighbour nodes that have max light, chances are, it's sunlight area for 4 nodes around .......?
19:31	Taose	TelepathicVampir, you listening to DuCake?
19:31	DuCake	sorry, I meant TelepathicVampir :-p
19:31	Taose	X)
19:31	Taose	That's a pretty good solution.
19:32	TelepathicVampir	interesting idea
19:33	DuCake	The only thing is to know if sunlight is actually == max light... if so then woohoo else then boo
19:34	TelepathicVampir	can i check if a node itself is a light emitter?
19:34	DuCake	yes you can by checking node groups - but check to see what level it emits too via light_source property
19:35	DuCake	probably best to directly check light level on node since you will need to do so anyway. if you have torch in daylight, it's still daylight around it, so you still need to check for daylight
19:36	TelepathicVampir	so if a node has max light level an non of the immediate neighbours is a light source that should automatically mean direct sunlight right
19:37	TelepathicVampir	assuming sun = max light level
19:40	Taose	Should
19:41	TelepathicVampir	i'll run some tests
19:41	Taose	There may be some exceptions but it should be okay
19:42	TelepathicVampir	i pretty much want a method that is sure to not have any exceptions
19:42	TelepathicVampir	raycast to heaven^^
19:42	DuCake	ahhh programming... pure and error-less..... ;-p
19:46	Taose	Tele, it's not perfection you're after it's something close to.
19:46	Taose	The reason being is that simulations demand a hell of a lot of power and resources.
19:47	Taose	This is a game, not a simulation. If there's a few bugs...as long as they're not game breaking, they're usually fine.
19:48	Taose	So for example, someone could find themselves surrounded by mese lanterns, would these people be any less happy?
19:48	TelepathicVampir	in my case it could give players very unfair advantages
19:48	TelepathicVampir	but i know the compromise between perfection and near perfect simulation
19:48	Taose	Watch out for them, if it does turn out to give an unfair advantage, extend the range a little.
19:49	DuCake	TelepathicVampir: hat is the use case?
19:49	TelepathicVampir	been making games for more than 20 years now
19:49	Taose	Only the sun has a universal range everything else has a limit.
19:49	Taose	(I don't think anything exists modding or otherwise that has a continuous range of 20 nodes max light...)
19:49	TelepathicVampir	ducake, sorry i dont know what you mean
19:50	Taose	What are you trying to do Tele or rather...why?
19:50	Taose	(This why question is going to be a bit recursive ...)
19:50	TelepathicVampir	i'm porting my mod http://www.minecraftforge.net/forum/index.php?topic=14878.0
19:51	TelepathicVampir	that should explain it
19:53	Taose	I think you'll be okay with checking the range.
19:54	TelepathicVampir	looks like it. thanks for your advice
19:55	Taose	Again if it turns out it's being easily abused or hacked around, instead of 2 nodes, check 4 and so on until they aren't abusing it anymore.
19:57	DuCake_afk	nope. tldr. seems like you want to calculate heatstroke?
20:00	crazyR	is anyone using the development branch of the streets mod: streets 2.0??
20:00	TelepathicVampir	heatstrokes too, but the main reason is that there are a lot of negative effects on frustration and only a few positive. exposure to sunlight is an importatn one
20:00	DuCake	crazyR: not me. did you find a bug?
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20:01	crazyR	nope just trying to decide wether its stable enought to use...
20:01	DuCake	"frustration" == a game concept or something you are experiencing..........?
20:01	DuCake	crazyR: only one way to find out without damaging a server.... use ti, an play for a while :-p
20:02	DuCake	"are you goofing around?" -- "nope, just testing a codebase!"
20:03	crazyR	yeah i know DuCake was trying to avoid that... i have an army of players wanting me to bring ethicrush back so was hoping someone would have some insight to avoid me having to waste time... lol
20:03	DuCake	lol
20:03	TelepathicVampir	a game concept, it makes diet, exposure to sun/weather, sleeping, working, relaxing play a major role
20:04	DuCake	I have armies (tens!) of players wanting me to do this that an t'other sorts of new mods for the server....................
20:05	crazyR	lol yeah.. i know the feeling.. in all fairness i did say i would bring it back months ago. but have struggled to find time around work to finish it... ethicrush has so many custom mods... i kinda wish i didnt want to be so diffrent :P
20:06	DuCake	TelepathicVampir: what you could do for excess light is, do a global_step to check for light every say 2 sec, then if it is always high, do a "heat exposure". This means if you are directly next to a torch or meselamp for extended time, you get the heat debuff, and also in sunlight. You can reduce its effect by checking for some/lots of dirt-with_grass or water ......?
20:06	DuCake	crazyR: github link?
20:06	DuCake	(no idea what ethicrush is.....)
20:07	crazyR	Its a server that used to be really popular. it was inspired by landrush just before landrush went downhill..
20:08	DuCake	crazyR: you should probably look at re-coding the custom mods such that they can follow the updates of their "upstream" mods. so for future portability
20:08	DuCake	ah right landrush
20:09	DuCake	i am new (1 year) to MT so I know it only as a legend :-p
20:10	crazyR	yeah Landrush was once one of the best servers available.. its a shame it died out. Im hoping BrandonR_away's return will liven it up again.
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20:11	TelepathicVampir	ducake: i'll have to play around a little but i think that will make it work
20:13	crazyR	^ incase anyone else was wondering... to awsner my own question streets 2.0 mod is no where near stable yet. :)
20:14	DuCake	crazyR: does anyone have the server's data?
20:15	crazyR	what for?
20:16	DuCake_afk	crazyR: to re-host :-p
20:17	crazyR	lol i have it. its already hosted. just not publicly available yet.. if i get work hard on my evenings il have it done before the end of the month
20:18	crazyR	http://ethicrush.org.uk/ <-- il be updating the forums here of you want to keep updated on progress
20:20	DuCake	is the port open? (can't connect now but will bookmark :-p)
20:20	crazyR	^ website no server address :/
20:22	DuCake	crazyR: OK. I am in UK so we are time coordinated :-p Message me in forums, name is "taikedz" if you need extra hands :-p
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22:50	Sokomine	rubenwardy: i don't know exactly what you mean by layout tweak. i do use another font than you used in the screenshot. it's a much larger one as well
22:54		red-001 joined #minetest
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22:54	red-001	is it bad that I know something fixes a bug but I have no idea why?
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22:57	Taose	Depends on what it is.
22:57	Taose	If it's something to do with low level code and you're using high level code to get around it, then no.
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23:11	MinetestBot	[git] red-001 -> minetest/minetest: Remove client-side chat prediction. (#5055) 2f56a00 https://git.io/vMKuZ (2017-01-16T23:09:47Z)
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