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| 01:14 |
DaveyDude |
hello |
| 01:14 |
DaveyDude |
are there any Lua-proficient modders here? |
| 01:15 |
DaveyDude |
*sigh* |
| 01:17 |
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| 01:17 |
thePalindrome |
I am. a bit |
| 01:17 |
thePalindrome |
What can I help you with DaveyDude |
| 01:18 |
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| 01:18 |
DaveyDude |
i have a mod idea |
| 01:18 |
DaveyDude |
you know about the American police databases, correct? |
| 01:18 |
thePalindrome |
Ah, you're just pitching an idea? |
| 01:18 |
thePalindrome |
Sure :shrug: |
| 01:19 |
DaveyDude |
well, i'm an admin on a server, and i was thinking about maybe having something like that |
| 01:19 |
thePalindrome |
How so? like a ban list? |
| 01:19 |
DaveyDude |
sort of |
| 01:19 |
DaveyDude |
but also what they did, time, date, etc. |
| 01:19 |
DaveyDude |
and it would also log times they are put in physical jail |
| 01:20 |
DaveyDude |
i mean in game jail XD |
| 01:20 |
thePalindrome |
Hmmm... any particular reason you want a jail system? |
| 01:20 |
DaveyDude |
we already have one |
| 01:20 |
thePalindrome |
But? |
| 01:21 |
DaveyDude |
what i mean is, it would work with a little popup that shows up when you run a command or something |
| 01:21 |
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| 01:21 |
DaveyDude |
so that you could look up a person's records and see if they have any warnings or previous kicks or imprisonments |
| 01:22 |
DaveyDude |
you could also add info as neccesary |
| 01:22 |
DaveyDude |
like when someone commits an offense |
| 01:22 |
thePalindrome |
The records part would be fairly easy, the tracking jail time gets a little harder |
| 01:23 |
DaveyDude |
that would be entered manually |
| 01:23 |
IhrFussel |
On my server I do that via a "Bad Score" system...each player receives Bad Points for breaking rules (1 to 5 depending on what they did) and anyone can check a player Bad Score via command |
| 01:23 |
DaveyDude |
sort of like that, IhrFussel |
| 01:23 |
DaveyDude |
but it would be a bit more detailed |
| 01:24 |
DaveyDude |
like what they did, when |
| 01:24 |
IhrFussel |
Well my server logs every chat message so the timestamp and reason are being saved just not visible ingame |
| 01:26 |
DaveyDude |
hmm |
| 01:26 |
IhrFussel |
But it sounds like you need multiple flags...one for jail amount and another for overall "reputation" |
| 01:28 |
DaveyDude |
yeah |
| 01:29 |
IhrFussel |
Maybe look at the areas mod and modify its storage code...it uses one file .dat for all protected areas in the world |
| 01:29 |
DaveyDude |
hmm |
| 01:29 |
cheapie |
The storage code is rather simple. |
| 01:30 |
DaveyDude |
good, i don't know very much about Lua |
| 01:30 |
cheapie |
Pretty much just minetest.serialize(whatever) and writing it to a file. |
| 01:30 |
DaveyDude |
i came here specifically because i wanted to see the possibility and actual easiness of doing something like that |
| 01:31 |
DaveyDude |
hmm, i had an interesting idea |
| 01:31 |
DaveyDude |
maybe a modification to the mail mod |
| 01:31 |
IhrFussel |
cheapie, yes but I mentioned it in case he/she is new at modding |
| 01:32 |
DaveyDude |
i'm a he... XD |
| 01:32 |
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| 01:32 |
cheapie |
Heck, in terms of the entire saving code, here you go (more or less): local f = io.open(minetest.get_worldpath()..DIR_DELIM.."mymod.db","w") ; if f then f:write(minetest.serialize(data_goes_here)) ; f:close() end |
| 01:33 |
cheapie |
(untested) |
| 01:33 |
IhrFussel |
cheapie, getting the stored data as tables is more complicated no? |
| 01:33 |
DaveyDude |
where would that code go? |
| 01:33 |
cheapie |
IhrFussel: minetest.serialize() does whatever->string conversion. |
| 01:34 |
cheapie |
DaveyDude: Here's a pretty much standard implementation of it (lines 7 to 24): https://github.com/cheapie/mail/blob/master/init.lua#L7 |
| 01:35 |
DaveyDude |
hmm |
| 01:35 |
DaveyDude |
ok |
| 01:35 |
DaveyDude |
thanks |
| 01:35 |
DaveyDude |
now to ask garywhite if we could test it |
| 01:36 |
DaveyDude |
maybe i'll do a test run on a minetesthosting.com server |
| 01:36 |
cheapie |
The (similar) one from areas is here (to make IhrFussel happy :P): https://github.com/ShadowNinja/areas/blob/7cb8787bebdad6b1077f7046eddeacc9da0d2136/internal.lua#L6 |
| 01:37 |
DaveyDude |
well, thanks all |
| 01:38 |
IhrFussel |
The areas mod was just an example...its the only mod I use that utilizes file storage I think |
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| 02:22 |
DaveyDude |
hell |
| 02:22 |
DaveyDude |
oops... |
| 02:22 |
DaveyDude |
XD |
| 02:22 |
DaveyDude |
*hello |
| 02:23 |
DaveyDude |
i found a temporary thing to use for criminal records |
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| 05:28 |
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| 05:30 |
segfault22 |
I think the reason why minetest doesn't have a bunch of cool mods similar to Thermal Expansion, Buildcraft, Thaumcraft, Mystcraft, Twilight Forest, Railcraft, Industrialcraft, Forestry, and much more is that people who can make mods believe that it's inevitable that someone else will, so they just play on servers or go play games which already have mods with the features they want (like minecraft) |
| 05:31 |
segfault22 |
eventually everyone gets to thinking that someone else is going to make "it", thus nothing ever gets done except for, well... mundane and/or simple stuff that lacks immersive features. |
| 05:35 |
segfault22 |
technic was a cool idea, but it is hampered by slow transmission and that central "switch" block. Mesecons are very useful, but they went too far and started making a power system out of it (free energy is good and all, but energy with no source is problematic). |
| 05:37 |
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| 05:38 |
segfault22 |
If I make a power-system mod which adds lots of machines, materials, unique uses for materials, explosives, weapons and so on, would people even use it, or would they just say that there's mods which already bring "stuff like that" and ignore it? |
| 05:41 |
segfault22 |
an electrolyzer to separate compounds into their bases (pyrite -> iron and sulfur); a centrifuge to separate mixtures (dirt -> plant matter, water, sand, gravel); a smelter to liquefy metals; a caster to make solid parts from liquid metals; a compressor to transform materials with pressure; and so on - these things are absent from technic |
| 05:45 |
segfault22 |
we could make a mod adding bees, which harvest pollen from nearby flowers and produce honey and other useful products; if someone can be a revolutionary and make an actually working, reliable minecart system, then we could make a mod for powered carts that pull loads such as carts full of items; so much is possible if we try - but why, when its already been done for some other game, or when it's inevitable that "someone else will make it"?... |
| 05:46 |
thePalindrome |
I see your point |
| 05:46 |
thePalindrome |
I also happen to agree with it |
| 05:46 |
thePalindrome |
I'm actually working on a steam power mod, because that sounds fun :shrug: |
| 05:47 |
segfault22 |
seems like there's a lot of "I have this great idea for a mod! it would be so cool and be a great source for immersion into the game! I even figured out how I would go about programming it! Eh, someone else is gonna make one like it eventually, so I'll just bugger off and wait until then" around here |
| 05:47 |
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| 05:47 |
thePalindrome |
Anyhow, ttyl, I'm off to bed |
| 05:47 |
segfault22 |
I am glad you are working on a steam power mod, that will be awesome |
| 05:47 |
thePalindrome |
If you message me, I'll get it when I log back in, bouncer :P |
| 05:47 |
thePalindrome |
s/,/because |
| 05:48 |
segfault22 |
okay |
| 05:50 |
segfault22 |
It seems like the only reason some people have made those good mods for minetest, is that they realized after some time that nobody else was going to |
| 05:50 |
segfault22 |
It's nothing like minecraft where there can easily be a dozen different mods for the same thing, all slightly different and totally incompatible |
| 05:54 |
segfault22 |
What's best about minetest is that all mods can be compatible, and use other mods' functionality if it is available; for this reason, there usually isn't more than one mod created to fulfill some purpose (exceptions being area protection and food crops, which have to build most of their functionality from bits and pieces, rather than mostly using something that is just part of the engine) |
| 05:56 |
segfault22 |
MoreOres adds popular metals like copper, tin, silver, gold and mythril, so other mods don't really have to add those (unless someone just happens to come up with a more efficient way to add those materials, and their mod does more than just add those materials, or the developer just doesn't want to add another dependency) |
| 05:59 |
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| 05:59 |
segfault22 |
So, should I work on those two (or 3? or 4?) mods I have decided to develop (materials mod for easily adding materials and items with properties automatically, parametrically determined by the material's properties; power system mod resembling Thermal Expansion bus substantially different), or just wait "until someone else makes it"?... |
| 05:59 |
segfault22 |
but |
| 06:05 |
Hijiri |
more like I am tired and don't feel like working on my mod idea |
| 06:05 |
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| 06:06 |
segfault22 |
I am always tired, but I worked on the first one so much anyways; its almost finished, except for a few slightly important parts, so I could probably release it in a working, useable state tomorrow if I really wanted to |
| 06:08 |
segfault22 |
I just don't know if it will be used by "people out there" at all, I want to make a server to publicly test the mod before it is officially released, and I am not sure if someone else is either already working on something like it (or better) or have already made one that's like it (or better) and I didn't find it anywhere yet... |
| 06:09 |
segfault22 |
Also, the mod seems pretty immersion-less without some grand use for all those materials you'll be using it to add - like machines or something |
| 06:09 |
Hijiri |
I'm not sure if it's that accurate that minecraft mods are usually incompatible, at least if they are using forge |
| 06:09 |
Hijiri |
unless by incompatible you meant something other than running them together breaks stuff |
| 06:11 |
segfault22 |
okay, there's one mod which adds different colors of redstone which don't connect (the whole feature of the mod), and another mod which adds more different colors of redstone, including some of the same ones, but there are many other features as well (gany's surface) - to my knowledge, none of the "greenstone" from the former will work at all with that of the latter. They don't crash the game (hopefully), but you can't use one mod's features to work |
| 06:11 |
segfault22 |
with another mod's features. |
| 06:12 |
Hijiri |
that's an issue with the mods, there are plenty of mods that interact with other mdos |
| 06:12 |
Hijiri |
mods |
| 06:12 |
segfault22 |
Another example is railcraft electric locomotives - you can use them to pull tons of stuff down a railway, and thats cool, but what if you want to use RF from Thermal Expansion instead of electricity, without having to build yet another third-party conversion device |
| 06:12 |
Hijiri |
not an issue with minecraft or forge itself |
| 06:13 |
segfault22 |
right, it's not causing the game to crash, but the mods are still incompatible to some extent, because their common features do not work together. |
| 06:13 |
Hijiri |
I don't see how you could have "automatic" compatibility with RF and IC etc., since their electric systems are different |
| 06:15 |
Hijiri |
you would need a converter somewhere, I mean |
| 06:15 |
segfault22 |
It's great to have different types of power systems, like EU from IC2 and RF from Thermal Expansion, since they are based on entirely different concepts. However, some mods will add cool features which use one, but totally disregard the other as if it doesn't exist - they could at least make the "device" use power from both systems, or at most make a different device for each system |
| 06:15 |
Hijiri |
I think there was some mod whose machines could take energy from a few different systems |
| 06:17 |
segfault22 |
yes, they do exist, but that's kinda a bandaid fix because it either adds a totally new internal "type of energy" exclusive to the machines, or converts all other supported types to one from a different mod. |
| 06:17 |
segfault22 |
it doesn't make sense |
| 06:17 |
Hijiri |
what would be a non-bandaid fix? |
| 06:17 |
Hijiri |
you just suggested a moment ago to make devices use power from multiple systems |
| 06:18 |
segfault22 |
say, you have a locomotive frame, and you can plop in it either an electric motor or an RF motor, and the respective power-system, and they will use one and not the other, and it both feels and looks better with what you may have in your base |
| 06:19 |
segfault22 |
or even put a steam power system in it fueled by coal - but in essence it is the same vehicle, a locomotive, with parts added based on what is needed. This will probably never exist, but it is reasonably possible with the existing technology, due to more complex things that have been created already (multipart, for example) |
| 06:20 |
Hijiri |
why is it better bandaid-wise for the frame to have switchable sources rather than just take from all? |
| 06:21 |
Hijiri |
It might feel contrived to have a magical port with 4 converters for 4 different power systems, but I don't see why it is worse intermod interaction |
| 06:23 |
segfault22 |
because they never make the "machine" costly enough to seem like it would really contain the systems to convert more than one type of power; only as costly as any other machine which depends on one specific type of power. If they made it more costly and requiring several converter items to make it, then people wouldn't like how expensive it is especially if they only use one type of power; but if they make it possible to only add the systems for wha |
| 06:23 |
segfault22 |
t type of power you intend to use, the power system would only cost as much as it should to support a specific type of power. |
| 06:24 |
Hijiri |
so that's an issue with mod aesthetic or maybe balance, but why is that a problem with mod compatibility? |
| 06:24 |
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| 06:26 |
segfault22 |
because there isn't an RF locomotive. If your base is built entirely around RF power and you want to use a powered locomotive, you have to download yet another mod with tons of features, just for its converter device which can turn your RF into EU to power the locomotive. |
| 06:26 |
Hijiri |
I'm talking about a mod whose machines could take energy from a few different systems, which is the last thing we were talking about when you called it a bandaid fix |
| 06:26 |
segfault22 |
none of IC2 or Railcraft or Thermal Expansion have their own converter. It would be great if they did, but they don't, so their features are not compatible without one. |
| 06:27 |
Hijiri |
Being able to put in an electric or RF motor won't give IC2 or TE their own converters either |
| 06:28 |
Hijiri |
and what are these IC2 / Railcraft / TE converters supposed to convert to? Why would a IC2 <-> TE converter belong any more in IC2 than TE? |
| 06:29 |
Hijiri |
I think the best solution for such converters really is to have them in a third mod |
| 06:29 |
segfault22 |
the point is that the systems are not designed to work together; if you want, say, an RF dynamo powered by EU, you have to get Forestry mod which adds it; but it makes more sense for there to already be an EU-powered RF dynamo, and an RF-powered generator, in the mods. |
| 06:29 |
Hijiri |
But why is your frame that can put different motors in not a bandaid fix? |
| 06:29 |
Hijiri |
this is what we were talking about |
| 06:29 |
segfault22 |
More specifically, it is possible for the mod developers to make their systems work together "out of the box", but they don't |
| 06:30 |
Hijiri |
Which mod does a EU-powered RF dynamo belong in? |
| 06:30 |
segfault22 |
it is not a bandaid fix, because it isn't designed with the purpose of fixing a problem; it is designed to use whatever power system you desire, instead of designed to accomodate any power system |
| 06:31 |
Hijiri |
those two don't sound mutually exclusive |
| 06:31 |
segfault22 |
Dynamos are part of Thermal Expansion, so they belong there. Generators are part of IC2, so they belong there. Basically, they belong in the mod which "owns" the power coming out of it. |
| 06:32 |
Hijiri |
why does that make more sense than belonging to the mod which powers the device? |
| 06:32 |
segfault22 |
"those two" are not the same, though. |
| 06:32 |
Hijiri |
I also don't think each energy mod should have to be aware of every other energy mod |
| 06:33 |
segfault22 |
Because if the mod powering the device exists but the mod for the power coming out doesn't, you get a crash if you try to use it. If the device is in a mod which adds the power system it outputs, you simply have no way to power it if you don't have the other mod, so no crash due to calling a non-existing API |
| 06:33 |
Hijiri |
I think that's assuming implementation details |
| 06:33 |
Hijiri |
the generator/dynamo/whatever doesn't have to call the APIs anyway |
| 06:34 |
segfault22 |
then how is it supposed to do anything with power, in the first place? |
| 06:34 |
Hijiri |
you check whether the mod is loaded |
| 06:34 |
Hijiri |
same way that minetest mods change behavior based on what mods are loaded |
| 06:34 |
segfault22 |
but it doesn't have to use the API anyways, so why bother if it doesn't use the API anyways? |
| 06:35 |
Hijiri |
I meant that it doesn't have to call the API all the time |
| 06:35 |
Hijiri |
e.g. when the API is not available |
| 06:35 |
segfault22 |
right, it doesn't |
| 06:36 |
Hijiri |
and if you have a pull-based electric system, you get the same issue in the other direction |
| 06:36 |
segfault22 |
but how much sense would it make to enable the player to build a device, which can generate a different type of power, which then sits there consuming fuel but doing nothing because there isn't a mod for the energy being output? Sure you could just make the device not work at all, but then the total implementation is far more complex than... just the device being in the mod which uses the power coming out of it. |
| 06:37 |
Hijiri |
segfault22: Why does it have to consume fuel? |
| 06:37 |
Hijiri |
Oh, you address that in the second part |
| 06:37 |
segfault22 |
if you make it check whether the API exists and not do anything if it doesn't, the implementation is overall more complex than what I just said. |
| 06:38 |
segfault22 |
oh... |
| 06:38 |
Hijiri |
hold on |
| 06:38 |
Hijiri |
someone is calling me |
| 06:38 |
segfault22 |
okay |
| 06:42 |
Hijiri |
ok back |
| 06:42 |
segfault22 |
In order to be universally compatible, it would be best for power system mods to recognize every other power system mod, and add devices to convert the power in a logical fashion. However, the big problem is there will be too many power mods that add basically the same thing (IC2 EU is electricity, but Mekanism also adds its own electricity, which works differently and is incompatible). If we just have one mod specializing in each distinct type of p |
| 06:42 |
segfault22 |
ower (IC2 for electricity, TE for redstone flux, Railcraft for steam, and so on) there will be substantially fewer mods for which to add a conversion device. This is why if I make a power system mod for Minetest, it will not use electricity, because Technic already deals with that. |
| 06:44 |
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| 06:44 |
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| 06:44 |
Hijiri |
I don't think checking whether the API is there will add significant complexity |
| 06:44 |
Hijiri |
it will add an API call and a conditional |
| 06:45 |
Hijiri |
You could also run into the problem of the API not being there even if only the receiving mod is defined |
| 06:45 |
segfault22 |
People will run out of unique ideas for a working method of transfering power through material or space (light and sound are next, then what?), so we will likely never see more than a dozen truly unique power system ideas. RF is very unique, because it is based on something which does not exist in the real world - but still, how many systems can you imagine that don't use a form of energy existing in the real world, without being basically just RF w |
| 06:45 |
segfault22 |
ith a different name? |
| 06:45 |
Hijiri |
consider if there is system A where devices get energy by asking the network for some electricity, the request getting passed to energy producers, and some other system B |
| 06:46 |
Hijiri |
then when the generator receives a request, it will have to check if the power-producing mod is there, so it can get electricity from it |
| 06:46 |
Hijiri |
(assuming system B has a similar system to system A) |
| 06:47 |
Hijiri |
B could be a bit different I guess, maybe the machine sets a demand level and the B network directs electricity to it, but it also requires API calls to the producing network |
| 06:52 |
segfault22 |
My suggested converters, like the one from forestry mod, have two internal buffers - one for the power coming in, and one for power going out. If power is coming in, it turns on and works until the output buffer is full, then stops until it isn't full. If the input buffer runs out, it stops filling the output buffer. Both buffers are otherwise independent and only deal with the API relevant to them. API calls are only done when there is power being |
| 06:52 |
segfault22 |
moved or when power needs to be moved. Also, the mod disables the incoming power buffer entirely if the mod for that power system isn't included, but it doesn't have to omit the output buffer because that mod does exist. It is more work to omit both buffers, if the mod adding the device is also the one with the power system that feeds the input, as you have to prevent the device from working if the power to be output doesn't exist. |
| 06:54 |
segfault22 |
you have to make it omit two stages (input and output, so it won't do anything), where it would be easier to only omit one (the input) and it can't output because the input doesn't exist. |
| 06:56 |
segfault22 |
Also, if the mod that adds Electricity is removed, but the mod adding redstone flux is still included, you can still drain the dynamos of all their accumulated RF power before dismantling them; instead of just losing it all when the now unknown blocks get GC'd first time the game loads without the electricity mod. |
| 06:57 |
Hijiri |
why does it have to omit the input stage? |
| 06:57 |
segfault22 |
so that it doesn't sit there consuming power to do absolutely nothing |
| 06:57 |
Hijiri |
it can stop consuming power when the input buffer is full |
| 06:58 |
Hijiri |
or are you saying the converter, in normal operation, would consume power even if the output buffer was full? |
| 06:59 |
segfault22 |
if the input buffer has anything in it, the device turns on and tries to fill the output buffer. If the output buffer doesn't exist, logically it won't try to fill it (else it would crash), so it keeps draining the input buffer and operating until the work-state gets turned off by the signal that the non-existend output buffer is now full. |
| 07:00 |
Hijiri |
I don't see how it has to keep draining the input buffer |
| 07:00 |
Hijiri |
In your version, when you only have an output buffer, you check that there is no input buffer and don't try to transfer from the input to the output |
| 07:00 |
segfault22 |
That would give the player power from no source, if it doesn't drain the input buffer when it is on and working |
| 07:00 |
Hijiri |
you can do the same thing here |
| 07:01 |
Hijiri |
segfault22: just to be clear, the input buffer is the buffer that receives electricity from the producing network, right? |
| 07:01 |
segfault22 |
right |
| 07:01 |
Hijiri |
If there is no output buffer, how does the player get any electricity? |
| 07:01 |
segfault22 |
the device's working-state depends on whether the input buffer has anything in it, and whether the output buffer is totally full. |
| 07:02 |
Hijiri |
I think you thought I said to never drain the input buffer |
| 07:02 |
segfault22 |
try to think about what happens, if you include the input-related parts but omit everything related to output. |
| 07:02 |
Hijiri |
I meant not to drain the input buffer when there is no output buffer |
| 07:02 |
Hijiri |
Otherwise you would drain the input buffer normally |
| 07:03 |
segfault22 |
I guess you could skip loading the device at all, so that the player can't use it because it's useless anyways |
| 07:03 |
Hijiri |
How would what I said make it useless? |
| 07:03 |
segfault22 |
or just skip loading anything except the block part, so it can be made but does absolutely nothing, receiving no power and produciog nothing |
| 07:04 |
Hijiri |
I don't follow what you are saying |
| 07:04 |
Hijiri |
Before being clever about how broken my design is, maybe you should explain why it is? |
| 07:04 |
segfault22 |
Well, if the input buffer can't be drained to do work, and the output buffer can;t output some other type of power, what do you use the device for other than decoration? |
| 07:04 |
Hijiri |
did you read my message? |
| 07:04 |
segfault22 |
yes |
| 07:04 |
Hijiri |
Hijiri | I meant not to drain the input buffer when there is no output buffer |
| 07:04 |
Hijiri |
Hijiri | Otherwise you would drain the input buffer normally |
| 07:05 |
Hijiri |
If you are draining the input buffer into the output buffer when the output buffer is there, you should be able to get power from it, yes? |
| 07:06 |
segfault22 |
that would make it useless, because the device can;t do anything except store some dismal amount of power not relative to its cost (stores some amount of power in the buffer ,much less than something specialized for storing power, but the rest of the cost to make it is for the working part that does the conversion and the output buffer, which do nothing) |
| 07:06 |
segfault22 |
If both buffers are loaded, both mods exist and their power systems exist too, of course |
| 07:06 |
Hijiri |
It won't store much if only the output mod is there either |
| 07:07 |
Hijiri |
output buffer |
| 07:07 |
Hijiri |
or is the output buffer bigger in your design? |
| 07:07 |
segfault22 |
I guess it doesn't matter |
| 07:07 |
Hijiri |
what doesn't |
| 07:07 |
segfault22 |
you might as well just not load the device if the other mod is missing, regardless of which one is adding the device, because it would be useless |
| 07:08 |
Hijiri |
are you still saying that this is a problem specific to my version, or to both? |
| 07:08 |
segfault22 |
what do you use the device for, if it can either not accept one type of power which it needs to produce another, or can't produce the type of power it produces by consuming another? |
| 07:08 |
segfault22 |
it applies to either |
| 07:09 |
Hijiri |
well, you could keep the device so the player knows what they're looking at |
| 07:09 |
segfault22 |
??? |
| 07:09 |
Hijiri |
in case they placed it before |
| 07:09 |
Hijiri |
they placed the device, and then temporarily unloaded one of the mods for some reason |
| 07:10 |
Hijiri |
My original goal was to try to say that the converter doesn't naturally belong in either mod |
| 07:10 |
segfault22 |
In minecraft with forge, nodes from a mod no longer loaded are simply removed if you decide to proceed loading (it asks you "hey, these block IDs are used in the world but the mod for them is missing? what to do?"); I figure minetest could do the same, but it doesn't have to |
| 07:10 |
Hijiri |
oh |
| 07:11 |
Hijiri |
That sounds like a reason to use a third mod to hold the converters |
| 07:11 |
segfault22 |
Well you see, some people don't want to have to go download and install another mod just to do something which seems so simple |
| 07:12 |
segfault22 |
Actually, it can benefit everyone because finding yet another mod (and there will probably be several different ones for the same thing, as usual) takes more resources than just getting the ones you want and being okay with the fact that they can work together by default. |
| 07:13 |
segfault22 |
sure it's easy to install another mod to do all of it, but why even make that necessary? |
| 07:13 |
segfault22 |
This all originated from my point that people at minetest tend to not develop mods they want, because they think by default that someone else will or already is. |
| 07:13 |
Hijiri |
Ok, that makes sense to me |
| 07:13 |
Hijiri |
But then you still do have to figure out who adds the converters |
| 07:14 |
Hijiri |
I guess that would just be a matter of convention, though |
| 07:14 |
segfault22 |
I guess it doesn't matter, I was just influenced by seeing the Forestry mod's wiki page about the electric dynamo, which "does nothing if IC2 isn't loaded" |
| 07:15 |
segfault22 |
it was the first time I was introduced to a mod which adds a conversion device for another mod's power system, by default |
| 07:16 |
Hijiri |
I'm going to go, I want to start getting more sleep |
| 07:16 |
Hijiri |
Thanks for the conversation |
| 07:16 |
segfault22 |
All of these conversion devices that are added by default (all 1 or 2 of them) seem to have something in common - they convert the input power to motion, then the motion to output power, just as a generator for the first type of power converts motion to power and a generator for the second type does the same |
| 07:16 |
segfault22 |
thank you |
| 07:17 |
segfault22 |
it was good talking with you, even if I did kinda feel like I was being trolled because now it's 3:17 AM for me and I started this rant about minetest community members not making mods back around 12:45 orso |
| 07:18 |
segfault22 |
Should I just go set-up minecraft with all those mods I want to see in minetest, and play until whenever, hoping that when I come back development work will be started on minetest mods that can add cool stuff like them? |
| 07:19 |
segfault22 |
or should I work on the mods for minetest which I have decided to make, knowing that they will either not be used due to a false perceived sense of redundancy or someone will already have one just like it made by the time I release it or before |
| 07:20 |
segfault22 |
I know someone is working on a steam power mod, which I was thinking about doing in the past, but now that I know it's being worked on by others, I will instead focus on something unique which I think nobody here has yet decided to make |
| 07:24 |
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| 07:25 |
segfault22 |
If you are a member of the minetest community who is working on new unique and immersive mods yet to be released, and you pause that work to go play minecraft and enjoy similar immersive features which already exist - is that like sneaking away from your unconditionally-loving girlfriend, to go have the services of an expensive prostitute? I kinda feel like it would be wrong like that, but I don't know for sure |
| 07:28 |
segfault22 |
I got my minecraft account when the price was $25, now its $35; I have always felt like they are only there to screw people and get money for it, even before I got a premium account, but I wanted to play on those fun, less-crowded servers that don't run offline mode |
| 07:30 |
segfault22 |
That was back when almost nobody was playing on minetest servers, and it felt so lonely even if there was one or two other people on the same server; I wanted to not be lonely in a game of this type, which is why I almost never play singleplayer unless it's very immersive and there's plenty to do without being around others |
| 07:31 |
segfault22 |
Minetest singleplayer doesn't feel immersive at all, even with the best mods that are out there; it just feels like an empty world where there's not much to accomplish or have fun doing, but in a server even with very few mods, you can make trade with people and build a town with a population... |
| 07:33 |
segfault22 |
in singleplayer, you just have one big central base that houses all of your accomplishments (power systems powering machines doing processes to make stuff, research/magic rooms for that kind of stuff, portal room for your mystcraft portals and bookshelves or even a stargate) - if there isn't that much stuff to make or construct which can provide processes or gains of some kind, when your base is small... |
| 07:34 |
segfault22 |
you could build a city, but why if it's never going to have anyone in it but yourself? You could build a railway, but unless it connects to some important resource-gathering place or an externally located factory or powerplant, what's the purpose? |
| 07:37 |
segfault22 |
and you can't even build a good railway in minetest, because the carts jump off the rails frequently, and even if the carts can be linked together, they don't turn naturally at curves, so it looks wrong... |
| 07:38 |
segfault22 |
I can see a possible way to make a better cart system, where a path is calculated based on how the rails are connected, and the cart follows the path instead of the rails - but it's probably very difficult to implement, so why bother any further than just suggesting the idea to the mod's developer(s) and bugger-off hoping it will happen? |
| 07:40 |
segfault22 |
also it would probably require tracks to have a new metadata field, and possibly add a new node for the curved tracks, which only makes it even more complex... |
| 07:44 |
segfault22 |
It's true that we all want the mods to be better and there to be more mods that are better and have more immersion-factor, but all of the work needed to get there is unpleasant for most. Maybe this is why we usually only have simpler mods - because they are so simple it's easy and maybe even fun to program them; and maybe it is also why many of the more complicated mods are left in a state that doesn't make much sense or has lots of problems - it's |
| 07:44 |
segfault22 |
so boring and "unfun" to program them, especially when they have to be even more complex in order to work smoothly or have better features or immersion-factor... |
| 07:47 |
segfault22 |
Great mods with cool, immersive features are usually only fun when they are finished enough to be useable and released to the public; then, doing minor bugfix updates or adding new features is either simple enough to be not much of a bother, or fun (in the case of new features) because you know that everyone, including yourself, will like it much more with the new cool features |
| 07:51 |
segfault22 |
I could also just quit doing anything with these games for a while, and design parts and stuff for my inventions via FreeCAD, hoping the whole while that people in the minetest community will develop cool mods during my absence... |
| 07:54 |
segfault22 |
if you look at my photobucket uploads, you can see that sometimes I work on stuff for minetest and sometimes I go play minecraft, occasionally with some other random crap in-between or mixed in... I don't like that there's so much minecraft crap, though... |
| 08:00 |
segfault22 |
really I hate minecraft, but when minetest gets boring, I go there to have at least some fun or do something immersive and challenging... |
| 08:01 |
segfault22 |
I used to only play minecraft cracked in offline mode, on factions servers for griefing and stuff, and then I found minetest - only afterwards was I even considering to buy a premium minecraft account, because I started to feel that minetest is boring without immersion (as is pretty much any game) |
| 08:02 |
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| 08:03 |
segfault22 |
Not sure if I'm glad the dollar didn't collapse yesterday, or disappointed... maybe some of both... |
| 08:05 |
segfault22 |
I hate the dollar system, and pretty much any fiat money system. Heck, I could go even further and say I hate any monetary system, because it restricts development of technology, causes people to become poor even if they "have work", and rewards people for destroying the environment. Society without money, if done properly, would be best for all the children of mother Earth... |
| 08:07 |
segfault22 |
There are enough resources for everyone to have clean food, clean water, and plenty of power for their entire life, and still have a huge surplus to devote to things like making new technology, building factories, and space exploration... |
| 08:09 |
segfault22 |
it is commonly seen that developing new technology which replaces human jobs in a business is bad, because people have to lose their jobs - but without a money system, this is actually good, because people don't have to do as much work to produce the products, and all the people whose jobs are obsolete can move on to do something better for society and pursue their desires more |
| 08:11 |
segfault22 |
without a money system, when jobs get replaced by machines, everyone wins because less hard labor is needed to produce the products. The best example is harvesting food - in the past, it was hard to harvest crops by hand, but now we have machines to do it, so over half of the people who were once farmers could, logically, move on to do something else - assuming, that is, the food is fairly distributed |
| 08:12 |
segfault22 |
There's more than enough "people-food" to feed 14 billion people; but most of it is wasted, either thrown away because it was prepared and nobody bought it or thrown away because it was harvested and nobody bought it before it went bad. |
| 08:13 |
segfault22 |
so without money, we wouldn't even need to produce as much food and everyone would get fed; literally everyone could live as rich people, because resources are abundant. The only thing that's scarce is money, because it is hoarded to leverage power over people and force them to work while remaining poor just to prop up a top-heavy elitist system |
| 08:15 |
segfault22 |
the feeling of scarcity instills the feeling of hate, which motivates people to abuse others and take from them to satisfy their needs; the feeling of abundance instills the feeling of love, which motivates people to cooperate with others and give to them to satisfy everyone's needs. |
| 08:15 |
segfault22 |
they say you can choose which way you want to live, but when forced to live with a money system, you can only have the former, else you die. |
| 08:18 |
segfault22 |
I honestly believe that people deserve to have abundance; so I will work on my mods, to be released for free to everyone under an open-source license at no cost. |
| 08:22 |
segfault22 |
Minecraft is disgusting, because they force you to pay for the game in order to play it legitimately and with all the features. Nobody should have to pay for something so evanescent and volatile like software |
| 08:23 |
segfault22 |
sure, you should have to work and contribute significantly to earn something difficult to produce like a car or an airship; but you shouldn't have to work for food and water or else die, and people who destroy the environment should not be allowed to get something as expensive to produce as an airship or a private bunker or something like that |
| 08:24 |
sfan5 |
dont you want to use a pastebin for the novel you are writing in here? |
| 08:24 |
segfault22 |
if I did that, it wouldn't get across to nearly as many people |
| 08:25 |
segfault22 |
I'm glad you're at least seeing that I am saying something, regardless of if you care about what is being said. It means a lot to me, just to know that someone is actually there |
| 08:27 |
segfault22 |
Am I insane? Have I gone bonkers? should I be regarded as highly unstable and must be contained?... or am I finally onto something, a concept of a system that if employed, would really be good for the entire world?... |
| 08:28 |
segfault22 |
only through time, will we truly know... |
| 08:28 |
segfault22 |
or you can just tell me |
| 08:30 |
Calinou |
segfault22: software probably shouldn't cost a dime, yes, but services rightfully have a price tag |
| 08:31 |
segfault22 |
Of course it shouldn't be totally free to get something truly expensive, but there's so much food and water it just doesn't make sense to give it to people who can afford it and deny it to people who are starving to death and have no money |
| 08:33 |
segfault22 |
if we just give people a base income, that would mostly solve the food distribution problem, but it wouldn't do anything to fix the problem where rich companies get rewarded with lots for destroying the environment and poisoning people |
| 08:34 |
segfault22 |
we could make more regulations to limit the ability of companies to pollute and destroy, but they always find some way around it, or there is an unintended consequence like the cobra effect. |
| 08:35 |
Calinou |
I too think software should be shareable and acquirable for free :P but almost all companies don't see it that way |
| 08:36 |
segfault22 |
it would be best to get rid of money, allow people to have toe food and water they need for free, and allow people to have expensive desires only when they have done enough positive things for society to justify having it |
| 08:37 |
segfault22 |
that way, a company can't build themselves a massive data center, office complex, and golf course resort by the beach if what they did destroyed the environment or made people sick, or was overall justifiably negative for the whole world |
| 08:38 |
segfault22 |
like mining coal by ripping the top off of mountains, then dumping the processing waste slurry into the river and killing all of the fish, then using the money they get from selling the coal to do whatever they want |
| 08:38 |
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| 08:39 |
segfault22 |
if we regulate companies' ability to pollute, they'll just move to some poor country where the regulation is lax or doesn't exist, or conspire to destabilize the government in the region and do it anyways |
| 08:43 |
segfault22 |
it would be reasonable to reward a software programmer for making something, especially if it is custom for a company or person and it is complex - but something like a game just doesn't warrant requiring people to pay in order to have it. If the game makers' needs were satisfied, they would be programming the game as leisure or for a hobby, it wouldn't be something they have to do or else starve to death, so they would naturally be okay with people |
| 08:43 |
segfault22 |
rewarding them for how good they think it is instead of paying them just to have access to it (and be able to tell how good it is - ever bought a game and find out it totally sucks?) |
| 08:45 |
segfault22 |
and if its something really big or something a significant portion of society wants, it would be reasonable to allocate a bunch of expensive stuff to reward the game maker for their hard work, when it is released. |
| 08:46 |
segfault22 |
people would actually be able to reward others for doing something good for society, if they didn't have to do hard work just to get enough money to pay for survival needs |
| 08:46 |
segfault22 |
and many people could put together small amounts of resources they have, to create a total reward that is immense in comparison to the contribution of just one of those people |
| 08:47 |
segfault22 |
we would still need some system to keep track of what people do and the rewards for them, so it will be difficult or impossible or just not worthwhile to be a charlatan and trick people into giving them lots of expensive stuff for something that's worthless or has a negative result |
| 08:48 |
segfault22 |
not like surveillancing what people do all day and using that to decide how much they get, but just something to contain entries about what projects they are working on or how many boring tasks they helped complete which can't be automated by a machine |
| 08:49 |
segfault22 |
if people don't put their work into the system, it only makes it harder for others around the world to reward them, but people in the immediate local community can still know about it via the good old-fashioned paper and graphite method |
| 08:51 |
segfault22 |
the whole point is that minecraft sucks, and the money system is only one reason for that, even though it is an entirely different issue altogether... everything is connected |
| 08:52 |
segfault22 |
is software volatile or vaporous? if both, how much of either? |
| 08:53 |
segfault22 |
or is it... /ethereal/... |
| 08:54 |
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| 08:57 |
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| 08:59 |
segfault22 |
if we can invent a technology to modify all the DNA in all the cells of a body, and modify the shape of the body to fit, in essence create new creatures by modifying existing ones without killing them or having to start with a single cell, of course all the furrie-fans will take up to it and want to go get changed to whatever, but there's one big problem they won't see until afterwards - fleas |
| 09:00 |
segfault22 |
its much easier to pick off fleas and ticks and lots of other nasty stuff, when there isn't fur in the way, so they would pretty much be only at a loss |
| 09:00 |
segfault22 |
and imagine how much shampoo they would have to use, or even have to get special stuff just for it and still use a lot... |
| 09:01 |
segfault22 |
many would probably go insane and turn feral, to run away into the forest and live as animals, which I have no problem with at all, as long as I don't have to ever meet them |
| 09:01 |
segfault22 |
"as animals" lol, humans are animals, just more advanced |
| 09:01 |
segfault22 |
whatever |
| 09:02 |
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| 09:02 |
segfault22 |
I'm gonna go work on my mods now, maybe do something actually valuable and productive, knowing that I won't get paid for it but I don't care about that because I will be bringing abundance to people |
| 09:03 |
segfault22 |
if not all people, then at least some people, who actually care about this game and think the mod is cool enough for them to use it |
| 09:03 |
JamesTait |
Good morning all! Happy Wednesday and happy Drink Beer Day! 😃 🺠|
| 09:05 |
segfault22 |
good morning, and happy wednesday to you too :D |
| 09:06 |
Szkodnix |
morning, morning :) ooh is it really a Drink Beer Day? :-O |
| 09:06 |
segfault22 |
maybe as part of that society without money thing, everyone should be allowed to have free beer on drink beer day :D |
| 09:06 |
Szkodnix |
sounds promising... :D |
| 09:07 |
Szkodnix |
I wish there was such thing here in Poland :D Brewfest with free beer :D |
| 09:08 |
segfault22 |
I would say the free beer should be limited to just one glass per person, but that's nonsense because one does not simply drink just one beer |
| 09:09 |
segfault22 |
"I drink beer, but only on days that end with a Y" - from someone who drinks beer |
| 09:09 |
segfault22 |
let's holler out Mt. Everest and turn it into a giant beer factory |
| 09:10 |
Szkodnix |
well... you know how they say here in Poland :D "What is the best beer in the world?" "The one given to us for free" :D so I guess it would be a good deal |
| 09:11 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 09:12 |
Szkodnix |
sometimes also there are answers like "the second one" but naah, free beer is always the best :D |
| 09:21 |
segfault22 |
the best beer in the world is the next one |
| 09:22 |
segfault22 |
so once you have it, the one after that will always be better |
| 09:23 |
segfault22 |
I wonder why nobody has replied to the "[Game] Edit the image!" topic in the offtopic section of the forum... |
| 09:24 |
segfault22 |
maybe because I took the last image and put it onto the billboard sign in the image of Corel Prison, which is big compared to the billboard... |
| 09:25 |
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| 09:32 |
segfault22 |
surely its not that difficult to edit the image of Corel Prison? Or did I just spoil all the fun?... |
| 09:39 |
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| 09:39 |
segfault22 |
I changed my signature but it's gone... |
| 09:40 |
segfault22 |
it's just not there at all, not even the horizontal line separator thing |
| 09:42 |
segfault22 |
does it take an hour to update or something? Or can I just not see my signature because I'm logged in as me? Should I login with someone else's account? |
| 09:43 |
segfault22 |
er, should I log out? I don't have access to other peoples' passwords, lol that would be totally insane... lol... |
| 09:50 |
red-001 |
??? |
| 09:50 |
red-001 |
just make a new account if you want to test it that badly |
| 09:50 |
red-001 |
anyway I could just see can I see it |
| 09:52 |
red-001 |
nope can't see it |
| 10:04 |
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| 10:04 |
Megaf |
Good morning everyone |
| 10:22 |
segfault22 |
good morning |
| 10:27 |
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| 10:27 |
MinetestBot |
Buttatoes: Sep-23 12:51 UTC <Megaf> Hi, thanks for reporting the problem with sand falling. Can you please check if it is fixed? |
| 10:27 |
Megaf |
Hey Buttatoes, yes, just crashed |
| 10:27 |
Buttatoes |
I broke it :D |
| 10:27 |
Megaf |
I did |
| 10:28 |
Buttatoes |
it's no big deal |
| 10:29 |
Buttatoes |
my short term goal is to finish the water ride. long term maybe build that area into a city |
| 10:30 |
Buttatoes |
I'm no paul landowski but maybe I'll try to build a giant statue too |
| 10:30 |
Megaf |
server is back already Buttatoes |
| 10:30 |
Megaf |
was back 3 seconds after the crash :) |
| 10:31 |
Buttatoes |
thanks Megaf |
| 10:33 |
Megaf |
Buttatoes: if you are curious, here is the crash http://paste.debian.net/plain/843072 |
| 10:35 |
Megaf |
here is the full thing http://paste.debian.net/plain/843074 |
| 10:36 |
Buttatoes |
of course I'm curious |
| 10:37 |
red-001 |
it looks similar to a bug reported a while back |
| 10:37 |
Buttatoes |
the problem is b and it's nil value |
| 10:40 |
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| 10:40 |
red-001 |
i'm probably the laziest admin ever. I *need* worldedit to even build roads |
| 10:40 |
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| 10:58 |
Megaf |
red-001: we all do that |
| 11:00 |
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| 11:24 |
Megaf |
man, it's difficult to deal with water flowing, it stops flowing after active_block_range |
| 11:25 |
Megaf |
and then it doesnt flow anymore even if you get close to it |
| 11:25 |
red-001 |
yeah water is a big mess |
| 11:25 |
Megaf |
you have to place a block around it or dig to make it flow again |
| 11:25 |
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| 11:25 |
red-001 |
at least you don't have to deal with it covering the unloaded block |
| 11:28 |
Megaf |
a player on my server built gigantic towers with water flowing on its walls, but water never reaches the floor |
| 11:28 |
Megaf |
really a pain to make it work |
| 11:28 |
Megaf |
!server Megaf |
| 11:28 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 2/10, 0/3 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 6ms |
| 11:36 |
Buttatoes |
Megaf: I can do grunt work with flowing water, it's no big deal for me. I knew what I was getting into when I started building towers 100 units high |
| 11:38 |
segfault22 |
a mobs API system and a vehicles API system would be like the Cambrian explosion, except for minetest - quite literally though |
| 11:43 |
Megaf |
red-001: you just helped me fixing the problem... |
| 11:44 |
Megaf |
red-001: by increasing the server unload timeout and visiting the blocks, it kept the blocks active making possible for the water to flow |
| 11:58 |
segfault22 |
? |
| 11:59 |
Megaf |
? what? |
| 12:00 |
Megaf |
PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND |
| 12:00 |
Megaf |
1825 minetest 20 0 919m 502m 2384 R 64.1 98.1 76:55.14 minetestserver |
| 12:00 |
red-001 |
????????????????????? |
| 12:01 |
Megaf |
red-001: you said that I don't have to deal with water in unloaded blocks |
| 12:01 |
Megaf |
red-001: that was the problem, the server was unloading blocks before water could flow there |
| 12:01 |
red-001 |
yeah there used to be a bug that caused water to flow over unloaded blocks |
| 12:02 |
Megaf |
red-001: hm, so that would make water fall into the limbo? |
| 12:02 |
red-001 |
no |
| 12:02 |
red-001 |
ignore is not floodable |
| 12:02 |
red-001 |
so it spread over the top of the block |
| 12:03 |
Megaf |
oh, I remember that |
| 12:03 |
Megaf |
in my previous server I had 90% of the spawn submerged in 20+ meters of water because of that |
| 12:03 |
segfault22 |
that used to be so lol, I remember too |
| 12:04 |
red-001 |
frezzing water when it reached ignore was added as a workaround |
| 12:04 |
Megaf |
the water just spread on top of the whole block |
| 12:05 |
segfault22 |
you could always just handwavium it away and tell people "it does that due to a sonic effect, when the water moves so fast as its falling" and then smack them really hard if they try to say anything about the water nodes moving as fast there as near the source |
| 12:05 |
red-001 |
It was decied at some point not to add code to unfrezze it as it was to cpu heavy |
| 12:05 |
segfault22 |
really? |
| 12:05 |
red-001 |
yeah |
| 12:06 |
segfault22 |
Instead of just adding the water nodes to a table for the chunk when they reach ignore, and when a nearby chunk loads, iterate through the list and remove the freeze? |
| 12:06 |
segfault22 |
er, when the chunk under it loads |
| 12:07 |
segfault22 |
then you don't have to constantly check if the chunk is loaded or not, or some other horrible excuse for a solution |
| 12:07 |
red-001 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2977 |
| 12:07 |
red-001 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3581 |
| 12:08 |
red-001 |
I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you mean |
| 12:16 |
segfault22 |
we make a table for every chunk, stored with it in the database; this contains references to all frozen liquid nodes in the chunk. when the water reaches a non-loaded chunk, the code currently used to stop it from flowing around is still used, but the node is added to this special table. Whenever a chunk under a loaded chunk is loaded (from unloaded), we iterate through the table and un-freeze the fluid nodes. Maybe we should also do the opposite wh |
| 12:16 |
segfault22 |
en a chunk unloads (check for liquid nodes at the bottom of the lowest loaded chunk and freeze them) to prevent it from happening in that case as well. |
| 12:17 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest |
| 12:17 |
segfault22 |
it may be highly inefficient though, but only if it is done via code running in Lua and translating to C++ functions every time something needs to be done (looks like what they are using in the pull request, is Lua code) |
| 12:18 |
red-001 |
that would use up a lot of disk space |
| 12:18 |
|
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| 12:19 |
segfault22 |
then chunks themselves would use up too much disk space, because this can only use up as much space as a table containing coordinates for every node in the bottom layer of a chunk... |
| 12:19 |
segfault22 |
per chunk |
| 12:19 |
red-001 |
even adding all liquid nodes in a chunk to the update queue sounds like a better idea |
| 12:20 |
red-001 |
would this require modifying the way the map is saved? |
| 12:20 |
segfault22 |
they could probably use the original idea, and it be much more efficient, by running all the processes in the C++ side, instead of running it in Lua and translating over every time something needs to happen - like the mobs fiasco |
| 12:21 |
red-001 |
wait why would you even want this to be lua sided? |
| 12:21 |
segfault22 |
You don't |
| 12:22 |
segfault22 |
But that's what they wrote it in... |
| 12:22 |
red-001 |
when? |
| 12:22 |
segfault22 |
huh, that's odd... it's a C++ file, but it's entirely Lua |
| 12:23 |
red-001 |
??????????????????????????????? |
| 12:23 |
red-001 |
link? |
| 12:23 |
segfault22 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2977/files |
| 12:23 |
red-001 |
the abm idea didn't get merged did it? |
| 12:23 |
red-001 |
thats not lua |
| 12:23 |
red-001 |
and that didn't get merged |
| 12:24 |
|
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| 12:24 |
red-001 |
that was just the discussion |
| 12:24 |
segfault22 |
Oh I see, the C++ unique artefacts were just hidden in the unedited parts |
| 12:24 |
segfault22 |
like "case" and != |
| 12:25 |
segfault22 |
it looks enough like Lua though, I can kinda read most of it; maybe I should study C++ more and work on the engine some... |
| 12:25 |
red-001 |
lua doesn't have continue and you don't need to declare the type of a variable |
| 12:26 |
segfault22 |
right, right |
| 12:27 |
red-001 |
my server might as well be renamed afk simulator |
| 12:27 |
segfault22 |
LOL |
| 12:27 |
red-001 |
3 players all afk |
| 12:27 |
Megaf |
!server Megaf |
| 12:27 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 1/10, 0/3 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 6ms |
| 12:27 |
red-001 |
new players just timeout |
| 12:27 |
Megaf |
1 player, nobody AFK |
| 12:28 |
red-001 |
!server fg2 |
| 12:28 |
MinetestBot |
red-001: No results |
| 12:28 |
red-001 |
!server just a test server |
| 12:28 |
MinetestBot |
red-001: No results |
| 12:28 |
thePalindrome |
!server mine |
| 12:28 |
MinetestBot |
thePalindrome: LINUXWORKS MINETEST SERVER (NEW HOME) | www.linux-works.de | Clients: 7/15, 6/8 | Version: 0.4.14 / minetest | Ping: 19ms |
| 12:28 |
segfault22 |
maybe I could make that much-desired mobs API, or a reasonable carts API with paths for the tracks and a proper-looking turning when carts round a curved track |
| 12:28 |
thePalindrome |
That's not mine, bot :P |
| 12:28 |
red-001 |
!server just test server |
| 12:28 |
MinetestBot |
red-001: Just test server | 51.37.48.165 | Clients: 3/15, 3/4 | Version: 0.4.14-403dada / minetest | Ping: 52ms |
| 12:29 |
red-001 |
!server just test server |
| 12:29 |
MinetestBot |
red-001: Just test server | 51.37.48.165 | Clients: 3/15, 3/4 | Version: 0.4.14-403dada / minetest | Ping: 52ms |
| 12:30 |
segfault22 |
agh, now I see some of that complex C++ stuff... its so ugly... |
| 12:30 |
|
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| 12:30 |
thePalindrome |
C can do that :P |
| 12:31 |
red-001 |
assembly can do that |
| 12:31 |
thePalindrome |
C# Always does that *cough* |
| 12:31 |
segfault22 |
lool |
| 12:31 |
Calinou |
segfault22: there is C++ and C++ |
| 12:32 |
* red-001 |
hopes someone says something about machine code and continue; 's the thread |
| 12:32 |
Calinou |
it's really easy to write ugly C++ using goto and such :) |
| 12:32 |
Calinou |
and you can write beautiful C++14 (soon C++17) too |
| 12:32 |
red-001 |
doesn't minetest require c++98? |
| 12:32 |
thePalindrome |
I'd have to check the makefile |
| 12:33 |
segfault22 |
14 as in 2014, or version 14? |
| 12:33 |
thePalindrome |
Actually, I don't think it specifies |
| 12:33 |
thePalindrome |
iirc it uses the default c++ spec for your gcc |
| 12:33 |
thePalindrome |
which in 5.3.0 was changed to 14 |
| 12:33 |
red-001 |
I meant that the code guidelines require that |
| 12:34 |
thePalindrome |
hmm |
| 12:36 |
segfault22 |
haha, the C++ side of the registry APIs are buried deeply into the C++ source... |
| 12:37 |
segfault22 |
its like looking through a gov't database server looking for a phone number entry |
| 12:37 |
thePalindrome |
Or anything :P |
| 12:37 |
|
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| 12:37 |
segfault22 |
or a certain needle in all of the soil of Alaska |
| 12:38 |
thePalindrome |
Can you see russia from the needle? |
| 12:38 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 12:38 |
segfault22 |
only if its on the surface |
| 12:43 |
|
xunto joined #minetest |
| 12:50 |
segfault22 |
my window-unit air conditioner is accumulating some weird gelatinous substance on the external portion... I wonder what it could be, but I have a feeling that it is something bad... |
| 12:51 |
thePalindrome |
What does it smell like? also color |
| 12:51 |
Fixer |
oil? |
| 12:51 |
red-001 |
aliens ? |
| 12:52 |
|
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| 12:52 |
|
shamoanjac joined #minetest |
| 12:53 |
Megaf |
segfault22: your air conditioner is capturing aliens from antoher dimension and blending them in an extremely painful way, the gum you see is a mix of their flesh and blood. |
| 12:53 |
segfault22 |
oh okay, then nothing to worry about right? |
| 12:53 |
thePalindrome |
Maybe your ac unit is making jello for you :D |
| 12:53 |
Megaf |
That must be caused by some kind of insulation problem in the dimansion temperature reactor |
| 12:53 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 12:54 |
thePalindrome |
Man, I wish my ac loved me so much |
| 12:54 |
Megaf |
segfault22: I think you could call the tech support and be like "Hi, my AC unit is blending aliens, is that an expected behaviour?" |
| 12:54 |
segfault22 |
I haven't smelled any of it, but its mostly opaque and light gray or beige, orange in some spots near the top |
| 12:54 |
Megaf |
segfault22: yep, blood and flesh |
| 12:55 |
Megaf |
the light grey is their blood, and flsh is orange |
| 12:55 |
Megaf |
flesh* |
| 12:56 |
segfault22 |
ewww |
| 12:56 |
thePalindrome |
the orange spots may be rust, but I'm not sure about the gray. Is it a swamp cooler? |
| 12:57 |
Megaf |
segfault22: It is leaking oil, that's all |
| 12:58 |
Megaf |
and the oil is washing away some rust |
| 12:58 |
Megaf |
and technically if oil can get out, moisture can get in |
| 12:58 |
segfault22 |
eh, that's not good |
| 12:58 |
Megaf |
it isn't |
| 12:58 |
Megaf |
better than blending aliens |
| 12:59 |
segfault22 |
it's not an evaporative cooler, just a regular window-unit air conditioner |
| 13:04 |
segfault22 |
so its leaking oil |
| 13:05 |
segfault22 |
I didn't know it would turn gelatinous though, I thought oil and water don't mix |
| 13:06 |
thePalindrome |
water usually doesn't turn things gelatinous |
| 13:07 |
thePalindrome |
It's usually the opposite :P |
| 13:07 |
Megaf |
segfault22: maybe is just water with some algae or bacteria that makes it jello like |
| 13:07 |
segfault22 |
yeah |
| 13:07 |
Megaf |
it's difficult to know exactelly |
| 13:08 |
Megaf |
orange could be from algae or rust |
| 13:09 |
segfault22 |
It could be some kind of biological stuff, thriving on the moisture and waste heat. I'm okay with that as long as it doesn't clog up the heat exchanger |
| 13:09 |
thePalindrome |
Mildew |
| 13:09 |
segfault22 |
maybe I should collect a sample and send it to a lab for analysis |
| 13:10 |
|
STHGOM joined #minetest |
| 13:10 |
|
STHGOM joined #minetest |
| 13:10 |
Megaf |
now, what if they say that it's not a known DNA? |
| 13:11 |
segfault22 |
Then I guess I'll get them to put it somewhere, maybe declare a new species |
| 13:11 |
thePalindrome |
Call the species megaf :P |
| 13:11 |
Megaf |
maybe it's just blended aliens afterall |
| 13:11 |
Megaf |
thePalindrome: lol, I support the tidea |
| 13:11 |
Megaf |
idea* |
| 13:11 |
segfault22 |
maybe I should collect a glob of it, put it in a petri dish with some food and water, and see if it grows |
| 13:11 |
Megaf |
Megafinus Gelatinus |
| 13:12 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 13:12 |
Megaf |
Megafinus Gelatinus |
| 13:12 |
Megaf |
there |
| 13:12 |
segfault22 |
google has 0 results for that, so its not taken |
| 13:12 |
Megaf |
well, it's somethingn ew |
| 13:13 |
segfault22 |
should I send a sample to you, so you can conduct some tests? |
| 13:13 |
Megaf |
eh, not yet |
| 13:13 |
Megaf |
let me move home first |
| 13:13 |
segfault22 |
okay |
| 13:13 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 13:13 |
red-001 |
what if they say it has no dna? |
| 13:14 |
Megaf |
before that, I need this job that I had a phone interview yesterday |
| 13:14 |
Megaf |
so wish me luck |
| 13:14 |
segfault22 |
okay, good luck |
| 13:15 |
Megaf |
Megafinus Airconditionis |
| 13:15 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 13:15 |
Megaf |
maybe that's a better name |
| 13:15 |
segfault22 |
indeed |
| 13:16 |
segfault22 |
what if its a new element that doesn't follow the rules of the periodic table, or something? |
| 13:16 |
thePalindrome |
Then physics is ruined :P |
| 13:16 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 13:17 |
Megaf |
Megafinus aerconditioner |
| 13:17 |
Megaf |
That would be a proper scientific name. I'm going to far with this, ain't I? |
| 13:18 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 13:20 |
Megaf |
"The depressed scales of the head and body in Megafinus are much wider than in Psorophora ; moreover, in Megarhinus the scales of the legs are never erect as" |
| 13:20 |
Megaf |
Oh my |
| 13:21 |
Megaf |
they already named someing in my name!! |
| 13:21 |
Megaf |
psyche.entclub.org/13/13-011.htm |
| 13:21 |
Megaf |
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oWXI5xiCc3wJ:psyche.entclub.org/13/13-011.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie |
| 13:21 |
Megaf |
There |
| 13:21 |
Megaf |
!titel |
| 13:21 |
Megaf |
!title |
| 13:21 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Psyche 13:11-21 |
| 13:21 |
Megaf |
"The depressed scales of the head and body in Megafinus are much wider than in Psorophora ; moreover, in Megarhinus the scales of the legs are never erect as in Psorophora. Therefore Psorophora can neither be placed in the satne sub-family with Megarhinus nor with Culex, but should constitute a dis- tinct sub-family, Psorophorinae. " |
| 13:21 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 13:22 |
segfault22 |
impossibruh |
| 13:22 |
Megaf |
See, my species has much wider scales! Take that! |
| 13:22 |
Megaf |
now, that was just a typo |
| 13:22 |
Megaf |
Megafinus and Mearhinus |
| 13:22 |
segfault22 |
google got like 7 results for "megafinus", without quotes. with quotes, only two |
| 13:22 |
Megaf |
Megarhinus* |
| 13:23 |
Megaf |
well, Megafinus aerconditioner is totally new |
| 13:23 |
Megaf |
segfault22: we totally could name a new species endemic to your air conditioner |
| 13:23 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 13:25 |
Megaf |
[14:17:05] <segfault22> what if its a new element that doesn't follow the rules of the periodic table, or something? |
| 13:25 |
Megaf |
[14:17:21] <thePalindrome> Then physics is ruined :P |
| 13:25 |
Megaf |
How do we name a new element? |
| 13:25 |
|
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| 13:25 |
segfault22 |
pick someone who's dead, pick some random 3rd-world country, or come up with something totally random |
| 13:25 |
Megaf |
like, this could be the byproduct of Megafinus aerconditioner digestion. |
| 13:26 |
Megaf |
segfaultum is the new name then! |
| 13:26 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 13:27 |
Megaf |
so, there we have it, a new species called Megafinus aerconditioner that produces segfaultum as byproduct of it's digestion process. |
| 13:27 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 13:28 |
Megaf |
And, segfaultum might be the rarest and most expensive chemical element on Earth! |
| 13:28 |
Megaf |
thePalindrome: ^ |
| 13:28 |
Megaf |
red-001: then it's now a life form we can detect |
| 13:29 |
Megaf |
or can we? |
| 13:31 |
segfault22 |
maybe its a new ultra-heavy element with an atomic number "over nine-thousaaaaand" |
| 13:36 |
Megaf |
Perhaps zone I hope not tho |
| 13:39 |
Megaf |
I didn't write zone. Auto correct did it |
| 13:40 |
Megaf |
I pressed comma |
| 13:40 |
Megaf |
The "," |
| 13:47 |
Megaf |
segfault22: well man, if you do send that to be analysed and it is a new bacteria indeed then we have an awesome name for it |
| 13:47 |
segfault22 |
yes xD |
| 14:00 |
segfault22 |
I'm not sure what part of my mod to work on... there's so much that isn't finished and so many different ways to implement it... |
| 14:01 |
|
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| 14:01 |
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STHGOM joined #minetest |
| 14:02 |
Megaf |
What does your mod do? |
| 14:03 |
Megaf |
segfault22: the next species we find we can call Megafinus Minetestis |
| 14:03 |
Megaf |
funniest name ever! |
| 14:03 |
|
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| 14:04 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 14:06 |
segfault22 |
my mod loads functions that facilitate adding materials to a list, where each material has its properties (name with capitalized first letter, strength, density), and then loads functions which allow you to easily add an item or tool or node, with its properties for minetest.register_*() filled in automatically from the data in the table, and each item/node/tool only requiring a single line with a few parameters instead of a whole minetest.register_ |
| 14:06 |
segfault22 |
*() block |
| 14:07 |
Megaf |
Off topic, https://office.live.com/start/Word.aspx?auth=1&nf=1 Doesn't work in google chrome here |
| 14:08 |
Megaf |
page unresponsive |
| 14:08 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 14:08 |
segfault22 |
so you can have this mod load, then have some other mod (or a special file in this mod's directory) add as many items and tools and nodes as you want, neatly keeping up with all of their properties, which can be changed easily by just modifying the material's properties - if you want diamond tools to be stronger, increase the diamond material's strength, instead of changing the properties for every single registry entry one by one |
| 14:09 |
segfault22 |
the most time consuming process for adding a whole set of items, tools and nodes via this mod, is the part where you use GIMP to make all of the textures and name them correctly |
| 14:11 |
Megaf |
interesting |
| 14:11 |
Megaf |
it almost sounds like something minetest had to have built in |
| 14:11 |
segfault22 |
it even lets you make tools with different handle materials, the swing time depending on the material's weight (density multiplied by volume - volume of pickaxe head is 3, handle is 0.5, volume of shovel head is 1, etc.) |
| 14:11 |
segfault22 |
I hope |
| 14:12 |
Megaf |
what's HybridDog's name on IRC? |
| 14:12 |
Megaf |
!seen HybridDgo |
| 14:12 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Sorry, I haven't seen hybriddgo around. |
| 14:12 |
Megaf |
!seen HybridDog |
| 14:12 |
Megaf |
!seen HybridDog |
| 14:12 |
Megaf |
bot, wake up |
| 14:12 |
Megaf |
!seen HybridDog |
| 14:12 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Sorry, I haven't seen hybriddog around. |
| 14:13 |
|
lumidify joined #minetest |
| 14:13 |
red-001 |
!seen aix |
| 14:13 |
MinetestBot |
red-001: aix was last seen at 2016-09-28 02:03:45 UTC on #minetest |
| 14:14 |
red-001 |
!seen book` |
| 14:14 |
MinetestBot |
red-001: book` was last seen at 2016-09-24 20:41:14 UTC on #minetest |
| 14:15 |
segfault22 |
If this mod gets widely accepted in the community, I think it will benefit everyone. It may be an unintended side-effect that moreores becomes obsolete, because you can add everything it adds by writing much less, but moreores may still live on if Calinou uses the system in an optional dependency (if the mod is loaded, use its functions instead of doing all of that other stuff) |
| 14:17 |
segfault22 |
Part of this project actually comes from a "moreores clone" I made, called morestuff, where eventually I learned how to use an ipairs iterator to go through a table registering lots of items, and using much less code than writing out each register block individually - I made a different mod using that as part of it, but eventually it grew to something much better and now I think ipairs isn't even used in it anywhere |
| 14:19 |
segfault22 |
morestuff turned into morestuff2, but the ipairs iterator started with morestuff. Then I made "layers" which tries to add more types of stone and ores for them, also using the iterator. Then I made "res", which used the iterator at first, but then ditched it for function blocks that are much more convenient to use and look prettier |
| 14:20 |
segfault22 |
layers was never released and probably never will be, because other mods have started to do what I intended for it to do (more stone types); but to my knowledge, the intended result of my other mod has never been attempted, even with Minecraft |
| 14:22 |
red-001 |
I don't think I can follow |
| 14:22 |
red-001 |
does your mod add a new way to register blocks? |
| 14:22 |
red-001 |
why would this be a big deal? |
| 14:22 |
segfault22 |
it pretty much wraps around the whole node/item/tool registering system, and unifies it by making everything reference the material it is made of |
| 14:23 |
red-001 |
ohhh |
| 14:23 |
segfault22 |
so you can have a pickaxe, sword, axe and shovel, and their durability is based on the strength of the material in the tool head, and the weight is based on the density of the tool head times the number of ingots used to make it, same for the handle |
| 14:24 |
red-001 |
so you can register iron the martial and other mods can use it to generate items based on that data |
| 14:24 |
red-001 |
sounds usefull |
| 14:24 |
red-001 |
might make somethings a bit less confusing |
| 14:25 |
segfault22 |
yes, any mod can use this mod's functions until the game is done loading (everything is logged in a special log file, and it is closed when the game is done loading; trying to log to the file when it is closed causes a crash) |
| 14:25 |
red-001 |
? |
| 14:25 |
red-001 |
why log file? |
| 14:25 |
segfault22 |
there isn't anything in this mod which is useful after the loading phase |
| 14:25 |
red-001 |
couldn't you store it in memory? |
| 14:26 |
red-001 |
writing to the disk a lot is generally a bad idea |
| 14:26 |
red-001 |
It wears the drive out |
| 14:27 |
segfault22 |
There's so much crap that it can log, it could make the minetest log huge, especially when there are more than 8 materials with full sets of objects to be registered; I guess I should make an option to store it in memory or just put it to the standard log, but disabling it completely could cause confusion if there is a crash somewhere |
| 14:27 |
red-001 |
i'm not sure what you mean |
| 14:27 |
red-001 |
why do you log? |
| 14:28 |
red-001 |
everything it registers |
| 14:28 |
red-001 |
debuging? |
| 14:28 |
segfault22 |
So that if someone screws up something, you can trace it to the exact moment it happened |
| 14:28 |
segfault22 |
yes |
| 14:28 |
red-001 |
ohhh |
| 14:28 |
red-001 |
thats what you mean by log |
| 14:28 |
segfault22 |
yeah, it is put to a file though |
| 14:28 |
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| 14:29 |
segfault22 |
maybe I should put it into the minetest log by default, or something that doesn't go to the disk |
| 14:29 |
red-001 |
minetest log goes to disk |
| 14:29 |
segfault22 |
but it will be configurable. I didn't think about disk wear before |
| 14:29 |
segfault22 |
also it is configurable what shows up in the log, by changing a log level number |
| 14:30 |
segfault22 |
you can set it to 4 or 5 and only very important stuff is logged (3 messages orso), but 0 would log everything |
| 14:30 |
red-001 |
couldn't you try and detect most errors? |
| 14:30 |
segfault22 |
it does |
| 14:30 |
red-001 |
and print them out when they happen |
| 14:31 |
segfault22 |
that is a good idea, to print the non-fatal errors |
| 14:31 |
red-001 |
so whats the extend of what you mod can do? |
| 14:31 |
red-001 |
can it register items /nodes? |
| 14:32 |
red-001 |
or does it just store the data about materials and lets other mods use it? |
| 14:32 |
red-001 |
nvm |
| 14:32 |
segfault22 |
any node or item that is made of a specific material, or tools made of two (tool head and handle are separate), can be registered, but it requires registering all materials before any objects referencing them are registered |
| 14:32 |
segfault22 |
it does register stuff |
| 14:33 |
segfault22 |
it does all of the "hard work" for you, so you can focus on stuff like naming materials, balancing the stats, and making the textures right |
| 14:34 |
red-001 |
so how does it work internally? |
| 14:34 |
segfault22 |
well, it loads a bunch of functions... |
| 14:34 |
red-001 |
does it keep a table of all materials and then go through it when another node registers a node/item/tool using it's api? |
| 14:35 |
segfault22 |
the first one is the logger, which also traces what function called the one that's making a message |
| 14:35 |
segfault22 |
yes, it does |
| 14:35 |
red-001 |
so what mod registered a bad node def is visible in the backtrace? |
| 14:36 |
segfault22 |
yes |
| 14:36 |
red-001 |
so why does it need it's own logger? |
| 14:37 |
red-001 |
you could add an option to dump the list of materials to a file if they can cause crashes |
| 14:37 |
segfault22 |
I may have not interpreted backtrace properly... do you mean the thing that gets printed out when a crash happens? |
| 14:37 |
red-001 |
yes |
| 14:38 |
segfault22 |
Normally I just skip registering something if a parameter is wrong, so you see unknowns if its already registered and a chat message telling you what was done wrong, and optionally you can check the log for which one specifically is messed up |
| 14:39 |
segfault22 |
like, if you have a world where a material was used before, then mess up the id/name and make it un-registerable, it just skips it. Maybe this is a bad idea... |
| 14:40 |
segfault22 |
maybe I should add an option, to make it return a bad nil to the next function when something is wrong with an attempted registry entry... currently, it checks for most possible types of errors, and tries to not crash if at all possible |
| 14:41 |
red-001 |
well crashs are useful when your a dev |
| 14:41 |
red-001 |
they tell you something went wrong |
| 14:41 |
segfault22 |
of course |
| 14:41 |
red-001 |
and a backtrace tells you where |
| 14:42 |
red-001 |
I think there is a minetest function that cause the server to stop and printout a backtrace |
| 14:43 |
segfault22 |
so I have a separate function which handles looking up a registered material's properties when needed by an object registering function; I can make it return nil if it can;t find the material, that way when the registering function tries to use the returned data, it crashes |
| 14:43 |
red-001 |
you could just have a setting that makes it run that when there is a serious error |
| 14:43 |
segfault22 |
if I can't cause it to crash by returning nil, then I will use that function |
| 14:44 |
segfault22 |
it will be configurable; that is one of the important features, to be configurable easily |
| 14:45 |
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| 14:45 |
segfault22 |
I wanted to make it load configuration from a file that's easy to read, but I also wanted a graphical configuration file editor where you can change entries easier and faster than by using a text editor (which does not exist, sadly); for now the configuration options are in the init.lua, like minetest_game default |
| 14:45 |
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| 14:47 |
segfault22 |
like clicking a toggle-button to change the value of something supposed to have true/false, instead of highlighting the word true or false and retyping the other value, potentially misspelling it too |
| 14:47 |
red-001 |
add config.lua? |
| 14:47 |
red-001 |
run it if it exists and recreate it if it doesn't |
| 14:48 |
segfault22 |
I could do that |
| 14:49 |
segfault22 |
I was going to make a config.lua which loads the configuration file thats in a different format than Lua, so its obviously not a Lua script that you have to edit for configuration, but that may be just unnecessary complication, because a config.lua can easily set all of the global variables quicker than the other option |
| 14:50 |
segfault22 |
a dedicated "configuration file loader" is only necessary if your mod is so big that it has over 1,000 entries (like gregtech) |
| 14:50 |
segfault22 |
right? |
| 14:51 |
segfault22 |
my mod's configuration options may not number more than 10, excluding the part where materials and other stuff are registered |
| 14:53 |
segfault22 |
the main reason I moved away from using an ipairs iterator to register stuff, was that it did not allow other mods to register stuff using my mod. So I used functions, and ever since then I have found even better ways to do just about everything my mod does, and it looks almost totally different each time I change the methodology |
| 14:56 |
segfault22 |
I always felt like making this advanced system, and then allowing it to crash when, for example, a tool's material name is malformed and it tries to register the tool with nil values for stuff like "description", is like walking into a door when you can see it's closed, or walking towards stairs and falling down them by assuming the first step is as high as the floor you were walking on at the top... but it is necessary to invoke a crash, so that th |
| 14:56 |
segfault22 |
e operator can tell something isn't working... |
| 14:57 |
segfault22 |
so in many cases, I have my log make an entry with some humorous remark about how the parameters are screwed up, and that its serving up a fresh nil hot off the grill, then returning nil to the next function which expects like a table or something |
| 15:00 |
segfault22 |
so does minetest have its own function to invoke a crash/exit, or should I use the functions provided by Lua? |
| 15:02 |
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| 15:03 |
segfault22 |
does minetest have a function to crash while loading if something goes wrong, or should I use the Lua library? |
| 15:04 |
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| 15:07 |
segfault22 |
standard Lua functions it is |
| 15:07 |
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| 15:24 |
Megaf |
segfault22: just make it index a nil value |
| 15:24 |
Megaf |
heh |
| 15:24 |
Megaf |
all nll values, anywhere will cause a crash |
| 15:24 |
segfault22 |
lol yeah, I could just do that... maybe print a message about why it was done just before |
| 15:25 |
Megaf |
but I think you should make it gracefully shutdown |
| 15:25 |
segfault22 |
but in some special cases, simply returning a "nice fresh nil hot off the grill" works fine too |
| 15:25 |
segfault22 |
yeah, graceful shutdown is better than falling down the stairs expecting the first step to be at the same height level ad the floor at the top |
| 15:26 |
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| 15:28 |
segfault22 |
is "nice fresh nil hot off the grill" not funny?..... |
| 15:28 |
segfault22 |
it rhymes |
| 15:29 |
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| 15:30 |
segfault22 |
I'm pretty sure nobody else came up with that, and I was the first,... if I'm wrong, google doesn't know about it |
| 15:32 |
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| 15:33 |
segfault22 |
or try to do arithmetic on a NaN value, maybe even comically just a string with the text NaN |
| 15:34 |
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| 15:35 |
Megaf |
segfault22: the funniest thing I read today, apart from our newly discovered bacteria is this joke. (Read in in Brithish) "How do you call a deer with no eyes?" |
| 15:37 |
segfault22 |
I don't get it |
| 15:37 |
Megaf |
"How do you call a deer with no eyes?" |
| 15:37 |
segfault22 |
uh |
| 15:37 |
Megaf |
Answer. "No I deer" |
| 15:38 |
Megaf |
no eye deer |
| 15:38 |
Megaf |
got it? |
| 15:38 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 15:38 |
Megaf |
deer sounds like idea |
| 15:38 |
segfault22 |
that's funny |
| 15:38 |
Megaf |
in brithish accent |
| 15:38 |
segfault22 |
OH |
| 15:38 |
segfault22 |
That's hilarious! xD |
| 15:38 |
Megaf |
no idea, no eye deer |
| 15:38 |
Megaf |
it is! |
| 15:39 |
segfault22 |
no eye deer |
| 15:53 |
segfault22 |
in soviet Russia, nil return YOU! |
| 15:54 |
Megaf |
lol |
| 15:54 |
sofar |
when are 'in soviet russia' jokes going to get replaced with 'in putin russia' ? |
| 15:55 |
Megaf |
nevah |
| 15:55 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 15:55 |
segfault22 |
okay, "in former Soviet Union, nil return YOU!" |
| 15:55 |
segfault22 |
/former/ |
| 16:00 |
red-001 |
in soviet Russia, object verb subject |
| 16:02 |
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| 16:09 |
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| 16:10 |
testman |
sup dudes |
| 16:11 |
Megaf |
sup |
| 16:13 |
testman |
Would it be possible to connect minetest servers into a distributed network which would behave as one giant server? And then when setting up server give the option to either remain individual server or connect into the network of servers. |
| 16:14 |
testman |
That way you could have one big world so that players would not be spread all around the servers with small player limit |
| 16:17 |
sfan5 |
theory yes |
| 16:17 |
sfan5 |
is this implemented? no |
| 16:18 |
segfault22 |
kinda like a distributed server? |
| 16:20 |
segfault22 |
I still want a single server to be able to have multiple worlds running at once, best possible implementation allowing players to travel between them easily and taking their items with them because they are in the same database (or part of the same "world" but separate databases) |
| 16:20 |
testman |
^ this |
| 16:21 |
segfault22 |
kinda like minecraft dimensions, except better because they can be id'd with any lowercase characters including letters and numbers, not just numbers. |
| 16:22 |
segfault22 |
it would also be better if new ones can somehow be created while the game is running, so we can make a mod like mystcraft where you write a descriptive book and use it to generate a world with desired properties |
| 16:22 |
testman |
It would be awesome if you had one main server with only basic mods, and then that world would have teleporters / portals to other world instances where you could have other mods / gametypes running. |
| 16:22 |
segfault22 |
but at least having multiple worlds, instead of the stacked realms bandaid fix, would be great, even if you can't make new ones while the game is running |
| 16:23 |
segfault22 |
yes, it would be nice to have a network for teleporting to other servers via portals - but since the mods are different, your items have to stay behind |
| 16:24 |
testman |
that is true |
| 16:26 |
segfault22 |
if the servers have identical mods configured identically (possibly loaded from a single source server), there is no reason it wouldn't be possible to take your items with you between the servers |
| 16:36 |
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| 16:37 |
red-001 |
why lua why, who though that making tables references was a good idea |
| 16:40 |
Megaf |
oh my, Jordach ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfePZau2AVY |
| 16:40 |
Megaf |
!title |
| 16:40 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: [HQ] Axel F - Beverly Hills Cop Theme (Piano cover) - YouTube |
| 16:43 |
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| 16:44 |
Megaf |
This one is pretty cool too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNwzFhv6Xrc |
| 16:44 |
red-001 |
!server Just test server |
| 16:44 |
MinetestBot |
red-001: Just test server | 51.37.48.165 | Clients: 1/15, 1/4 | Version: 0.4.14-403dada / minetest | Ping: 35ms |
| 16:45 |
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| 16:46 |
testman |
Good taste in music whoever psoted Axel F |
| 16:47 |
Megaf |
!server Megaf |
| 16:47 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 3/10, 0/3 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 7ms |
| 16:47 |
Megaf |
Oo |
| 16:47 |
agaran |
red-001: whats wrong with references? or problem is in using them? |
| 16:48 |
Megaf |
I was actually expeting my server to be empty, but ok then |
| 16:48 |
Megaf |
3 is better than enpty I guess |
| 16:48 |
agaran |
Megaf: server is bit odd, took me 10 minutes or so to get mapblock loaded.. |
| 16:48 |
agaran |
but lag is low still.. |
| 16:48 |
Megaf |
agaran: ok, I'm login in, will fix it |
| 16:49 |
Megaf |
agaran: ]Killed |
| 16:49 |
Megaf |
just OOMed xP |
| 16:49 |
Megaf |
[1872216.286006] Out of memory in UB 102: OOM killed process 1825 (minetestserver) score 0 vm:1307080kB, rss:648520kB, swap:386652kB |
| 16:49 |
Megaf |
agaran: server is back |
| 16:49 |
red-001 |
lua has no builtin way to copy tables |
| 16:53 |
agaran |
red-001: table.copy worked for me usually, but I did not tried to break it.. |
| 16:53 |
agaran |
Megaf: ah.. explains a lot |
| 16:53 |
Megaf |
it was swapping like crazy probably |
| 16:54 |
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| 16:54 |
segfault22 |
why do you need to copy tables? |
| 16:55 |
agaran |
when code returns some data in form of table, and you want pass it to next call but keep your own version intact.. |
| 16:56 |
segfault22 |
it might be better to structure it differently depending on what the need is, like object-oriented stuff |
| 16:56 |
agaran |
well perhaps yes, but at least tables are relativelly simple in lua to handle |
| 16:56 |
segfault22 |
lua can do object oriented stuff kinda, but it isn't easy to comprehend |
| 16:57 |
segfault22 |
java is better at that |
| 16:57 |
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| 16:57 |
segfault22 |
maybe we should NOPE NOPE NOPE |
| 16:57 |
agaran |
java threads @work stuff scream moar mem.. and they eat liek 30G .. |
| 16:58 |
red-001 |
minetest should add a function to copy tables |
| 16:58 |
red-001 |
it would be a lot easier to do in c++ |
| 16:59 |
sofar |
table.copy() |
| 16:59 |
agaran |
sure, I'd like to have such builtin.. |
| 16:59 |
agaran |
sofar: it is c++ side? |
| 17:01 |
sofar |
no |
| 17:01 |
sofar |
the problem with table.copy() is that there's 5 different ways to copy a table |
| 17:01 |
agaran |
just five?:) |
| 17:01 |
sofar |
metatable copy yes or no? |
| 17:01 |
sofar |
deep copy or not? |
| 17:02 |
sofar |
recursive ok or not? |
| 17:02 |
sofar |
5 +/- 3 |
| 17:02 |
agaran |
sofar: I am being silly :) sorry |
| 17:02 |
sofar |
np |
| 17:02 |
sofar |
table.copy() is in minetest/builtin/... |
| 17:03 |
segfault22 |
if (hypothetically) you develop mods for minetest, and you have one to be released soon and people like the idea and want to use it, and you pause work on minetest to go play minecraft with a bunch of immersive mods you want to have in minetest but aren't willing to program - is it like sneaking away from your unconditionally-loving girlfriend to have the services of an expensive prostitute?... |
| 17:03 |
sofar |
it's just lua |
| 17:03 |
red-001 |
shouldn't a copy by definition be an exact copy? |
| 17:03 |
agaran |
red-001: sometimes you -want- deep copy, sometimes not.. |
| 17:03 |
segfault22 |
lets ask philosoraptor |
| 17:03 |
sofar |
red-001: metadata? |
| 17:06 |
agaran |
red-001: if one size would fit all cases, then we wouldn't have like dozen(s) of .*printf.* variants |
| 17:07 |
red-001 |
how do lbms work? |
| 17:07 |
agaran |
they get triggered when node is loaded (its block is loaded) |
| 17:08 |
agaran |
I use that to pass info to mod that its physical objects are in world or not |
| 17:08 |
red-001 |
where can I find an example of how to use them? |
| 17:09 |
sofar |
red-001: there's a few use cases added by me to minetest_game |
| 17:09 |
agaran |
dunno, I just wrote some silly code, then punched it with hammer until it worked somehow.. |
| 17:09 |
sofar |
red-001: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=register_lbm |
| 17:09 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/zo7/facegen |
| 17:10 |
Calinou |
my face will be like the one in the GIF when client-side scripting is added :D |
| 17:10 |
agaran |
Calinou: I'd be scared and asking for [ ] disable client side lua when connect to server switch |
| 17:11 |
Calinou |
yeah, problem is, servers would start relying on it |
| 17:11 |
Calinou |
and break if you don't have it enabled |
| 17:11 |
Calinou |
(that's what is happening with JavaScript today) |
| 17:11 |
agaran |
well then make from start something that lets server query if client has it enabled.. |
| 17:11 |
agaran |
yes.. I feel lot of problems with .js dependancy whatever it is actually needed or not |
| 17:12 |
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| 17:12 |
segfault22 |
nobody ever replies to my question comparing premium minecraft (and payware in general) to a prostitute... |
| 17:12 |
sofar |
segfault22: geeks don't think about sex |
| 17:13 |
segfault22 |
maybe its because people are scared of being associated with "the guy who got banned for saying a bad word" |
| 17:13 |
segfault22 |
it's not about "sex", it's an analogy |
| 17:14 |
segfault22 |
you could use the oil company as the other end of the analogy, but people wouldn't understand how minecraft is like the oil company because they don't know how the scheme works... |
| 17:14 |
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| 17:18 |
segfault22 |
so people here are in that gray zone where it isn't understood how companies (or other institutions, organizations, foundations...) can trick people into paying for something that isn't worth paying for when there are much better alternatives, yet also don't understand what I said before?... |
| 17:18 |
sofar |
how many people vote for Trump? |
| 17:19 |
segfault22 |
I don't always vote Democrat, but when I do, it's because I'm dead and someone's using my credentials |
| 17:19 |
segfault22 |
when space is so full of energy that could be tapped to power all the world's machines forever at no cost, paying for fuel to run your car is like paying for an operating system or paying a sunlight tax |
| 17:21 |
sofar |
all energy on earth that we use, including oil, is a product of sun light |
| 17:21 |
segfault22 |
if you can understand that, then my question is obviously fitting because it is a similar analogy - but does it fit as the first part of the analogy, leaving unfinished work at minetest to play mods in minecraft which are desired for minetest but won't be developed by the person who decided to go on hiatus? |
| 17:22 |
segfault22 |
sun light is a product of nuclear fusion of hydrogen, and hydrogen is a product of the false vacuum |
| 17:23 |
segfault22 |
everything comes from the invisible background energy, commonly called "zero-point energy" because it is the energy that remains when all visible energy is removed |
| 17:23 |
segfault22 |
atoms are powered by the energy; without it, they would collapse due to internal losses such as parasitic inductance/capacitance with nearby particles |
| 17:23 |
sofar |
everyone ran away now |
| 17:23 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 17:23 |
sofar |
it's just you and me |
| 17:24 |
segfault22 |
I ran them away with all of that free thinker stuff |
| 17:24 |
sofar |
If I'd vote republican I'd be arrested |
| 17:24 |
segfault22 |
why? |
| 17:24 |
segfault22 |
do you live in uzbekistan or something? |
| 17:25 |
sofar |
because neither felons who have their voting righs taken away and non-citizens can't vote in the US |
| 17:25 |
segfault22 |
which are you? |
| 17:25 |
sofar |
I have not ever been caught for a felony |
| 17:25 |
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| 17:26 |
segfault22 |
okay, so does it mean you're the other? |
| 17:26 |
sofar |
are you a "free" thinker or can you logically think too? :P |
| 17:26 |
segfault22 |
why not both? |
| 17:27 |
sofar |
logic limits the possible things you can think, reducing freedom |
| 17:27 |
sofar |
for instance, I can think global warming is made up by Obama to help the chinese |
| 17:27 |
sofar |
that's "free thinking" |
| 17:27 |
segfault22 |
it depends on your meaning of logic |
| 17:28 |
sofar |
but I can not logically think that, since it conflicts with many presumptions, facts etc. |
| 17:28 |
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| 17:29 |
twoelk |
I don't think free thinking needs logic |
| 17:29 |
segfault22 |
NASA was caught falsifying climate data; the world has actually gotten cooler ever since the 70s, and faster in the last 20 orso years than any time in recorded history; reduction of sea ice is used to prove global warming, bus sea ice is icebergs - ice shelfs are expanding when there is less sea ice... is this not logical? |
| 17:30 |
sofar |
no |
| 17:30 |
segfault22 |
so it is logical |
| 17:30 |
sofar |
it is not logical |
| 17:30 |
* twoelk |
has been amazed by some of the unlogic beautiful stuff created in Dadaismus |
| 17:30 |
segfault22 |
why? |
| 17:30 |
sofar |
this is going to take a while |
| 17:30 |
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| 17:30 |
segfault22 |
you've been drinking that gov't koolaid too eh? |
| 17:31 |
sofar |
(a) "NASA was caught falsifying climate data" does not logically mean that climate data was falsified in such a way that global warming is proven a myth, nor does it prove which way the data was falsified |
| 17:31 |
segfault22 |
I didn't elaborate because the bot would disallow the message for... being too long. |
| 17:32 |
segfault22 |
You can find the rest of the invormation by using the internet |
| 17:32 |
sofar |
(b) the world has actually gotten cooler ever since the 70s -> incorrect, disputed by temperature record and cherry-picked data |
| 17:33 |
sofar |
(c) reduction in sea ice has no relation ship with ice shelf size, also Ice shelves are breaking up in larger amounts than ever seen before |
| 17:33 |
segfault22 |
it doesn't take a genius to prove what I have said; if you are willing to find the truth, you have to research many sources, including independent ones with no conflict of interests, for yourself |
| 17:33 |
sofar |
(d) you omit hundreds of climate records and only cherry pick a few data points |
| 17:34 |
segfault22 |
have you actually seen these "climate records", or is your source the evening news? |
| 17:34 |
sofar |
I studied geology, including climatology, meteorology |
| 17:34 |
segfault22 |
more likely, your source is some organization funded by... the same people who profit from the scam. |
| 17:34 |
sofar |
some of my best friends are PhD's in Meteorology |
| 17:35 |
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| 17:35 |
twoelk |
I do have a personal feeling things are getting warmer :-D |
| 17:35 |
sofar |
unlikely, the universities they work for do not have college football teams |
| 17:35 |
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| 17:36 |
sofar |
also, and this is key: thinking "free" does not mean thinking "critically" |
| 17:36 |
twoelk |
I was able to skate on ice a lot more as kid than in recent years |
| 17:36 |
segfault22 |
aparently, this guy is trying as hard as he can to be a sgt. schultz, so there's no point in feeding this circular argument |
| 17:36 |
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STHGOM joined #minetest |
| 17:37 |
sofar |
twoelk: anecdotal evidence |
| 17:37 |
twoelk |
I even walked on the Baltic sea as kid, not as far as my father when he was a kid though |
| 17:37 |
sofar |
8 months in a row global temperature records |
| 17:37 |
sfan5 |
<segfault22> I didn't elaborate because the bot would disallow the message for... being too long. |
| 17:37 |
sfan5 |
which bot are you referring to? |
| 17:38 |
segfault22 |
the one that kicks you for writing a message that wraps to 3 or more separate entries |
| 17:38 |
segfault22 |
try it |
| 17:38 |
segfault22 |
I think its ChanServ |
| 17:38 |
sfan5 |
no it's shadowbot |
| 17:38 |
segfault22 |
okay, whatever |
| 17:39 |
sfan5 |
shadowbot does not have op anymore because shadowninja can't bother to fix it |
| 17:39 |
sofar |
segfault22: please, indulge me on your thoughts about (1) women, (2) scientists, (3) immigrants, (4) minorities |
| 17:39 |
sfan5 |
write as much as you want |
| 17:39 |
sfan5 |
sofar: (3) something something we need to build a wall |
| 17:41 |
sofar |
"it worked well for China" |
| 17:41 |
twoelk |
hm, women as scientist are a minority among immigrants? |
| 17:41 |
sofar |
not so much for the romans in scotland, though |
| 17:41 |
segfault22 |
the proposed wall is not designed to keep immigrants out; it is designed such that legitimate immigrants, who don't intend to conduct criminal activities, must get here via the legal process. That's not what China did; their wall was designed to keep the invaders out, and there weren't any gates. |
| 17:41 |
twoelk |
sofar, it did work for quite a while |
| 17:42 |
segfault22 |
"something something legal something something" |
| 17:42 |
segfault22 |
in other words |
| 17:42 |
sofar |
3 more topics |
| 17:42 |
sofar |
or did that also cover your stance on women? |
| 17:42 |
segfault22 |
I'm not going to bother watching this devolve into another circular argument, so bugger off |
| 17:43 |
red-001 |
!server just test |
| 17:43 |
MinetestBot |
red-001: Just test server | 51.37.48.165 | Clients: 0/15, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.14-403dada / minetest | Ping: 34ms |
| 17:43 |
sofar |
segfault22: I'm not commenting, just asking you to comment, so, no argument |
| 17:43 |
segfault22 |
so far, of course |
| 17:43 |
sfan5 |
red-001: how come the "UK Government Department for Work and Pensions" hosts a minetest server? |
| 17:43 |
red-001 |
? |
| 17:43 |
red-001 |
lol |
| 17:43 |
sfan5 |
look up the ip |
| 17:44 |
segfault22 |
because magic |
| 17:44 |
red-001 |
i'm in a country th |
| 17:44 |
red-001 |
that's my server |
| 17:44 |
red-001 |
and i'm in ireland |
| 17:44 |
red-001 |
sooo... |
| 17:44 |
sfan5 |
hm yeah |
| 17:44 |
sfan5 |
the other service says vodafone ireland |
| 17:44 |
red-001 |
yeah thats right |
| 17:44 |
red-001 |
I do have vodafone |
| 17:45 |
segfault22 |
they host a minetest server because magic, thats why |
| 17:46 |
red-001 |
wikipedia thinks i'm the irish department of health and safety or something like that |
| 17:46 |
sofar |
segfault22: I fail to see how denying global warming helps us plan for a warmer future, one that endangers all people on earth. Why would you claim it's "not man made" and not plan ahead calculating the risks? |
| 17:46 |
sofar |
segfault22: the only reason to do so is because you want to score a political point |
| 17:46 |
swift110 |
sup |
| 17:47 |
sofar |
segfault22: the markets already have accepted the point and insurance companies are adjusting for global warming already |
| 17:47 |
est31 |
global warming directly only endangers some humans |
| 17:47 |
est31 |
but those humans will want to come over to the still nice places |
| 17:47 |
sofar |
no, it will likely affect all economies |
| 17:47 |
est31 |
it would be major chaos |
| 17:47 |
est31 |
many will be positively affected |
| 17:48 |
sofar |
it's likely a driving force behind illegal immigration and local turf wars |
| 17:48 |
est31 |
over all its nothing we should aspire to have though |
| 17:49 |
segfault22 |
Variations in all the worlds' temperatures are driven by changes in the Sun's energy output. When the sun gets hotter, we get hotter; when the sun gets cooler, we get cooler. Any changes in atmospheric gases, apart from a total replacement of it, pail in comparison. |
| 17:49 |
sofar |
that's just BS |
| 17:49 |
est31 |
segfault22, total bs |
| 17:49 |
segfault22 |
The sun is overdue to reduce its output again, and it is predicted to occur very soon. |
| 17:49 |
sofar |
please, eat more shit, since you're already full of it |
| 17:50 |
sofar |
segfault22: your tinfoil hat came off again |
| 17:50 |
segfault22 |
When the circular aruing and fallacious logic fails, resort to insults. |
| 17:50 |
est31 |
segfault22, thing is, in future many many more people will live like in the west |
| 17:51 |
est31 |
this is because everyone wants to be able to have a hot shower |
| 17:51 |
est31 |
and a car, etc |
| 17:51 |
sofar |
segfault22: you're either trolling, or you really just want your own world vision to be right |
| 17:51 |
est31 |
but those things are very bad for the climate |
| 17:52 |
sofar |
the current solar cycle is on a minimum energy output, yet temperatures have continued to rise |
| 17:52 |
est31 |
and if we dont switch to renewables before they start buying cars it will be the total nightmare |
| 17:53 |
est31 |
segfault22, also consider what trump is planning with his tax plan. He wants to lower the taxes for the very rich and increase the debt by trillions |
| 17:53 |
* red-001 |
observes a mostly civil discussion on the internet |
| 17:53 |
segfault22 |
There is no reason to keep trying to convince you trolls of anything; it will only be met with circular argument, fallacious logic, and failing that, insults. Thus I will not waste my time with you hicks any more. I have important work to do on stuff that the rest of the community actually wants |
| 17:53 |
sofar |
https://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm |
| 17:53 |
est31 |
more than any of the wars in the middle east he complains about combined |
| 17:54 |
sofar |
segfault22: people like you endanger humanity by ignoring real threats and fearing made up ones |
| 17:54 |
est31 |
segfault22, note that you are welcome in the minetest community, regardless of your views. We are not a hug circle and accept differently minded people. |
| 17:54 |
sofar |
that mindset is what caused fascism to rise many times in history |
| 17:55 |
segfault22 |
Of course I am welcome here, I actually started to make something people really want, so everyone who is truly interested in it won't try to kick me out |
| 17:56 |
est31 |
other communities handle these things differently |
| 17:56 |
est31 |
just pointing this out. |
| 17:57 |
segfault22 |
Other communities are generally not worth dealing with, as they are overrun by pc police and crony shills |
| 17:57 |
red-001 |
!server just test |
| 17:57 |
MinetestBot |
red-001: No results |
| 17:57 |
segfault22 |
at least this place has more genuine members than accounts created for the sole purpose of disruption, trolling and shilling |
| 17:58 |
segfault22 |
but as you all can plainly see, there's still several here as well. |
| 17:58 |
twoelk |
is this "Just Test" server related to the other two of that name? |
| 17:58 |
red-001 |
no |
| 17:58 |
est31 |
segfault22, only because someone doesnt agree with you they are not a troll or shill |
| 17:58 |
sofar |
so you like this place being 'not PC' but I can't say that I think you have shit for brains? |
| 17:59 |
red-001 |
It just means I can't think of a better name |
| 17:59 |
twoelk |
don't gat carried away sofar |
| 17:59 |
segfault22 |
It was a simple test, really |
| 17:59 |
twoelk |
uhm that sort of reads weird |
| 18:00 |
segfault22 |
it doesn't matter what I truly believe; the nature of the responses reveal who you really are, and what you are to this community |
| 18:00 |
red-001 |
I'm not sure do the players understand that |
| 18:01 |
sofar |
segfault22: that's not logical either. if your biased opinion isn't hurting your contributions to the community, then neither would mine |
| 18:01 |
red-001 |
!server just test |
| 18:01 |
MinetestBot |
red-001: Just test server | 51.37.48.165 | Clients: 0/15, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.14-403dada / minetest | Ping: 35ms |
| 18:03 |
est31 |
people may throw names around, thats at least my opinion |
| 18:04 |
est31 |
especially when the other person is using freedom of speech as well |
| 18:04 |
segfault22 |
It is no longer worthwhile to try and spread my messages by this channel; of the people who are actually online, most either don't care about what I have to give to the community, or are trolls here just to entrap people into vicious circular arguments for the sole purpose of having a circular argument. |
| 18:05 |
segfault22 |
For the few who are really interested in what I have to give to the community - If you want to find out about my work or have something to contribute, you should use the forum. |
| 18:05 |
sofar |
you are the only one who's trying to disprove climate record by claiming that it's constructed by circular arguments |
| 18:05 |
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| 18:05 |
sofar |
the rest see right through that |
| 18:06 |
twoelk |
come on segfault22 your believes should be able to resist some wind in the face |
| 18:06 |
segfault22 |
of course, but it is a waste of time trying to dispel the constant generation of circular arguments intended to disrupt. |
| 18:06 |
sofar |
let's change the topic then |
| 18:07 |
segfault22 |
if you want to know about what I know, you will have to ask me directly, without the intent to troll and shill instead of listening and doing independent research to confirm what I may say. |
| 18:07 |
sofar |
what's your feeling on organizations like politifact? |
| 18:08 |
sofar |
who fact-check |
| 18:08 |
segfault22 |
Anyone with enough time and good sense can find that everything I have said is true |
| 18:08 |
sofar |
I'd never claim that everything I said is true |
| 18:09 |
sofar |
I know, and understand well that everyone, including me, makes mistakes |
| 18:09 |
segfault22 |
If it wasn't true, I would not waste my time saying it. Note, these people devoted to trolling and shilling are the same ones who would claim that the world's resources are scarce, that poor people are poor because they are lazy, and so on with the grass is blue sky is green belief system. |
| 18:10 |
sofar |
please, indulge me and assume you had made mistakes in your assessment about climate for a second - hypothetically, and you were wrong about the whole thing. |
| 18:11 |
sofar |
wait what? poor people aren't lazy |
| 18:11 |
sofar |
they're mostly poor because of hidden biases in society perpetuating their wealth gap |
| 18:12 |
red-001 |
could you use [off]? |
| 18:12 |
segfault22 |
There are enough resources to fulfill the needs of all the children of mother Earth; only money is scarce - it is not the cause of the world's problems, but it is a tool by means of which power is leveraged to conduct activities which cause them. In many places, people who do hard work remain poor because they are not treated fairly by the system - the working poor - and this would not occur if poor people were poor because they are lazy |
| 18:13 |
sofar |
oh I see where this is going. the poor are not lazy, it's the system. Let's use trickle-down economics to give money to the wealthy to solve the problem. |
| 18:13 |
red-001 |
#politics |
| 18:13 |
segfault22 |
If I am going to put a message forward, could I at least get it into the log so people can see it later? Otherwise its just going to disappear, especially because most people who read it at first don't care anyways |
| 18:14 |
red-001 |
#discussion |
| 18:17 |
segfault22 |
As I said before, I will not put this information into the chat any more. It has been proven that it is a waste of my time and effort; so if you want to have this information, you will have to contact me via the forum or my email address. If you are interested in those mods I'm developing for everyone to enjoy (advanced resources system, yet-to-be-named power system mod, maybe more), use the forum. |
| 18:18 |
segfault22 |
In the future I will make a server, and you will be able to contact me there sometimes, either when I am online or by using the message function which I will include in the mod pack. |
| 18:19 |
segfault22 |
if all goes well, said server will be dedicated, and there won't be significant downtime. |
| 18:19 |
sofar |
I'll leave this discussion with this: “A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.†|
| 18:20 |
segfault22 |
I have important work to do, and I have already wasted too much of my time here, mostly talking about random useless things before realizing there is a sickness here. |
| 18:22 |
segfault22 |
I may come here for a short time in the future to announce the release of my mods or creation of my server, but other than that don't expect to find me here again. |
| 18:22 |
segfault22 |
in fact, if you are online and you see me here online, consider that you are very lucky |
| 18:23 |
segfault22 |
All truths go through three stages of development. First, they are ridiculed. Second, they are violently opposed. And finally, they are accepted as self-evident. |
| 18:24 |
sofar |
you are ridiculing global warming |
| 18:24 |
sofar |
make sure you vaccinate your kids, btw |
| 18:24 |
segfault22 |
For many things in our world we are near the transition between the second and the final. The people must decide if society will change and prosper as a whole once again, or descend into chaos and ultimately, death. |
| 18:24 |
sofar |
I'd hate to see them get preventable, horrible childhood diseases |
| 18:25 |
sofar |
also, floss |
| 18:25 |
segfault22 |
my work here is done |
| 18:26 |
sofar |
I hope he flosses |
| 18:26 |
red-001 |
The irc log for today might cause a buffer overflow |
| 18:27 |
red-001 |
i'm not sure was the logging bot tested to see if it can handle logs this long |
| 18:28 |
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| 18:29 |
sofar |
I'm sure it's fine |
| 18:29 |
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| 18:30 |
twoelk |
it's all in the logs |
| 18:34 |
sofar |
it's interesting to read back the logs. I'm very well aware that nothing I can say would have swayed his opinion. |
| 18:39 |
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| 19:04 |
FirePowi |
Hi everyone ! |
| 19:05 |
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| 19:05 |
* FirePowi |
pray Jordach for some octaves <3 |
| 19:06 |
Jordach |
CDEFGAB |
| 19:17 |
swift110 |
hmm |
| 19:22 |
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| 19:38 |
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| 19:40 |
FirePowi |
Jordach, Haha ! *cuty eyes* |
| 19:41 |
FirePowi |
I want sounds files for a third and a fourth octave for mesecon noteblock, please !! <3 |
| 19:45 |
Calinou |
Jordach: bra sizes? :P |
| 19:46 |
Calinou |
from most favorite to least favorite? |
| 19:46 |
FirePowi |
Huhu. |
| 19:55 |
FirePowi |
Jordach, how did you do the noteblock sounds, please ? I really want to add 1-2 octaves ! |
| 20:01 |
sfan5 |
Calinou: why would someone's most favorite be C? |
| 20:02 |
sfan5 |
!server ping:most |
| 20:02 |
MinetestBot |
sfan5: ANDROID SERVER | mineandroid.zapto.org:30004 | Clients: 3/50, 1/4 | Version: 0.4.14 / minetest | Ping: 368ms |
| 20:02 |
sfan5 |
>android |
| 20:02 |
Jordach |
Calinou, :^? |
| 20:02 |
sfan5 |
that explains it |
| 20:02 |
FirePowi |
sfan5, why not ? |
| 20:02 |
sfan5 |
C is too small obviously |
| 20:03 |
FirePowi |
It depend on preferences. :o |
| 20:03 |
Calinou |
:p |
| 20:03 |
FirePowi |
Well in fact, I admit I like d. |
| 20:03 |
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| 20:03 |
Jordach |
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) |
| 20:03 |
FirePowi |
… /d |
| 20:03 |
sfan5 |
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) |
| 20:04 |
Jordach |
( ͡°‿ ͡°) |
| 20:07 |
FirePowi |
ç |
| 20:07 |
sfan5 |
ü |
| 20:07 |
FirePowi |
ç4( |
| 20:07 |
FirePowi |
(Those are some caracteres I can't do in Minetest :'( ) |
| 20:11 |
sfan5 |
why not |
| 20:11 |
sfan5 |
even Å‚ works |
| 20:21 |
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| 20:21 |
red-001 |
!server just test |
| 20:21 |
MinetestBot |
red-001: Just test server | 51.37.48.165 | Clients: 6/15, 2/6 | Version: 0.4.14-403dada / minetest | Ping: 35ms |
| 20:24 |
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| 22:14 |
Megaf |
!server Megaf |
| 22:14 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 1/10, 0/5 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 8ms |
| 22:16 |
Megaf |
sfan5: ç dont work in minetest |
| 22:16 |
Megaf |
ñ ã ẽ ĩ õ ũ dont either |
| 22:16 |
Megaf |
you just can "type" them |
| 22:17 |
Megaf |
to make ç here I do alt gr + c then c |
| 22:17 |
Megaf |
ã is alt gr + n then a |
| 22:17 |
Megaf |
(Irish keyboard) (similar to brithish) |
| 22:18 |
Megaf |
if I type on the server console they will show correctly, I just can't make them in Minetest |
| 22:18 |
tokage |
what's the wecommended amount of dedidated ramen I should have to server...? |
| 22:19 |
Megaf |
ramen? :) |
| 22:19 |
Megaf |
512M at least tokage |
| 22:19 |
Megaf |
and then 512M of swap at least |
| 22:19 |
tokage |
tanks |
| 22:19 |
Megaf |
you're welcome |
| 22:20 |
Megaf |
Calinou: do you use ç in French? |
| 22:27 |
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