| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
|
Jellonator joined #minetest |
| 00:01 |
rubenwardy |
I'm excited to see how this turns out agrecascino, shamoanjac |
| 00:01 |
rubenwardy |
When I started writing CTF I wanted to make a city vs city factions mod, where countries fight over territory etc |
| 00:02 |
shamoanjac |
we'll do our best ;P |
| 00:02 |
agrecascino |
rubenwardy, did you ever figure out the issues witht the firearms mod? |
| 00:02 |
rubenwardy |
firearms suck |
| 00:02 |
rubenwardy |
shooter is so much better |
| 00:02 |
agrecascino |
it's completely broken at this point |
| 00:02 |
rubenwardy |
!mod shooter |
| 00:02 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: Simple Shooter [shooter] by stu - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=7846 |
| 00:03 |
agrecascino |
flans mod for minetest when? |
| 00:03 |
rubenwardy |
flans? |
| 00:04 |
rubenwardy |
isn't that a body part? |
| 00:04 |
agrecascino |
http://flansmod.com/ |
| 00:04 |
rubenwardy |
I'm thinking of glans, nevermind |
| 00:05 |
agrecascino |
lewd |
| 00:05 |
shamoanjac |
my experience with everything fast in /Mine[a-z]+t/ is that the multiplayer experience gets... bad |
| 00:06 |
agrecascino |
http://www.walkaboutcrafts.com/freegifts/alphabetimages/a.gif |
| 00:06 |
agrecascino |
http://www.walkaboutcrafts.com/freegifts/alphabetimages/u.gif |
| 00:06 |
agrecascino |
http://www.walkaboutcrafts.com/freegifts/alphabetimages/t.gif |
| 00:06 |
shamoanjac |
:( |
| 00:06 |
agrecascino |
http://www.walkaboutcrafts.com/freegifts/alphabetimages/i.gif |
| 00:06 |
KaadmY |
sm? |
| 00:06 |
agrecascino |
http://www.walkaboutcrafts.com/freegifts/alphabetimages/s.gif |
| 00:06 |
KaadmY |
yep |
| 00:07 |
agrecascino |
http://www.walkaboutcrafts.com/freegifts/alphabetimages/m.gif |
| 00:07 |
shamoanjac |
a classic |
| 00:12 |
agrecascino |
also |
| 00:12 |
agrecascino |
i came up with another idea for clientside scripting |
| 00:12 |
agrecascino |
have scripts on the clientside be distributed by the serve, and then have those scripts communicate to the server via WAMP |
| 00:12 |
Void7 |
WAMP? |
| 00:13 |
agrecascino |
newagey pub sub rpc protocol |
| 00:13 |
agrecascino |
http://wamp-proto.org/ |
| 00:14 |
agrecascino |
basically, integrate a wamp client lib into minetest's lua implementation |
| 00:14 |
agrecascino |
and have a router run on another thread |
| 00:16 |
agrecascino |
i guess the best thing about it is that nothing would need to change, minus running scripts on the client |
| 00:17 |
Nosrick |
Wouldn't that be open to abuse, potentially? |
| 00:17 |
|
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| 00:18 |
agrecascino |
Nosrick, as in? |
| 00:18 |
rubenwardy |
overkill |
| 00:19 |
rubenwardy |
Don't see how that helps |
| 00:19 |
rubenwardy |
to get scripts from server to client, you can just use the standard way to transfer media |
| 00:20 |
agrecascino |
that's not what i meant |
| 00:20 |
agrecascino |
i meant, for client-server communication, WAMP would be used |
| 00:20 |
Hijiri |
Nosrick: yes, 50 armor means 50% damage |
| 00:20 |
rubenwardy |
why can't you just use UDP packets? |
| 00:20 |
rubenwardy |
TCP is not good for games |
| 00:20 |
Nosrick |
Couldn't clients execute their own scripts, potentially allowing for unsolicited mods? |
| 00:20 |
Nosrick |
Such as wall hacks, etc. |
| 00:21 |
rubenwardy |
already possible, Nosrick |
| 00:21 |
rubenwardy |
it's already possible to modify the client to walk through walls or fly |
| 00:21 |
Nosrick |
Ah, fair enough. |
| 00:22 |
agrecascino |
rubenwardy, you could possibly just add a UDP connector to autobahn |
| 00:22 |
shamoanjac |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15305 |
| 00:22 |
shamoanjac |
:D |
| 00:23 |
T4im |
you example flags do look a lot better than what i was able to click together :D |
| 00:24 |
shamoanjac |
yeah it was most likely confusing |
| 00:24 |
shamoanjac |
now I've added a small color square |
| 00:24 |
shamoanjac |
so that you can see which color you've chosen |
| 00:25 |
T4im |
you did go very realistical with the patterns; have you considered doing it a bit more "artificial"? like allowing to put a cobble block on it? ;) |
| 00:26 |
T4im |
something more minetesty |
| 00:26 |
shamoanjac |
yes, I've considered it |
| 00:26 |
shamoanjac |
it shouldn't be very hard to do |
| 00:27 |
shamoanjac |
though, first, I'd need to find a way to display more flags |
| 00:28 |
shamoanjac |
with navigation arrows |
| 00:30 |
shamoanjac |
woah I've just seen my posts from 2013 |
| 00:30 |
shamoanjac |
I was like in 11th grade |
| 00:30 |
shamoanjac |
dem memories |
| 00:32 |
T4im |
heh |
| 00:32 |
T4im |
hmm, maybe instead of sickle and hammer a minetest pickaxe and shovel? :D |
| 00:33 |
* T4im |
still ponders what could be done with other political connotated symbols |
| 00:34 |
shamoanjac |
the pickaxe and shovel could actually be great |
| 00:36 |
T4im |
btw, how many content_id's are you registerin all together? |
| 00:37 |
T4im |
ah wait, you use entities |
| 00:37 |
T4im |
right |
| 00:38 |
shamoanjac |
yeah, banners are pretty much signs |
| 00:39 |
agrecascino |
T4im, i'm offended by that |
| 00:40 |
T4im |
by what? |
| 00:40 |
agrecascino |
you insulting my commie flag |
| 00:41 |
T4im |
i did not :o |
| 00:41 |
T4im |
I'm just trying to get the political symbols out, generally; it's just that that was the easiest to "minetest"-ize |
| 00:41 |
T4im |
stylize to fit better into the game, without targeting any specific symbol |
| 00:42 |
shamoanjac |
agrecascino, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14203 |
| 00:43 |
agrecascino |
? |
| 00:43 |
shamoanjac |
about political symbols, I personally do not wish to take them out, I like historical recreations. I encourage people who do not want them on their server to just disable them |
| 00:43 |
shamoanjac |
didn't you want a flan agrecascino |
| 00:44 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, i was talking about the modding api |
| 00:44 |
shamoanjac |
oh |
| 00:45 |
shamoanjac |
also check this out |
| 00:45 |
shamoanjac |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14494 |
| 00:45 |
shamoanjac |
people complained in the thread about a lack of underground diversity |
| 00:49 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, this reminds me of the underground jungles in terraria |
| 00:50 |
agrecascino |
IMO. terraria is a better "game", and minecraft is a better sandbox |
| 00:50 |
shamoanjac |
never played terraria |
| 01:03 |
|
nolsen left #minetest |
| 01:18 |
DonBatman |
nm0i you there? |
| 01:18 |
nm0i |
yup |
| 01:19 |
DonBatman |
Didn't mean to upset you |
| 01:19 |
DonBatman |
I was just wondering about the weather mod |
| 01:20 |
nm0i |
DonBatman: it's just play with timers, that's all |
| 01:20 |
nm0i |
DonBatman: http://me0w.net/pit/1470446418 de-git'ed weather (tar.gz) |
| 01:20 |
DonBatman |
Thanks |
| 01:23 |
nm0i |
transition&forecasts are done as separate mod and suck atm. |
| 01:25 |
DonBatman |
fyi env: is depreciated |
| 01:26 |
DonBatman |
set_sky is something that I need to do but haven't yet |
| 01:27 |
DonBatman |
Been busy with another project |
| 01:27 |
nm0i |
.env? |
| 01:27 |
nm0i |
ah hm |
| 01:27 |
DonBatman |
It use to be that you needed env: but not anymore |
| 01:27 |
nm0i |
not sure how it got there |
| 01:28 |
nm0i |
Or may be its old version |
| 01:28 |
nm0i |
*old mod |
| 01:39 |
DonBatman |
nm0i I noticed you are using my doors |
| 01:39 |
DonBatman |
What do you think of them? |
| 01:39 |
nm0i |
DonBatman: uh uh |
| 01:41 |
DonBatman |
nm0i? |
| 01:41 |
nm0i |
DonBatman: is_protected everything please |
| 01:43 |
DonBatman |
Good point |
| 01:43 |
DonBatman |
Anything else? |
| 01:43 |
DonBatman |
The forum does not give much feedback |
| 01:43 |
nm0i |
DonBatman: aside of darage-door-griefing problem I had before its ok. On previvous servers I just stole textures though. |
| 01:44 |
DonBatman |
Never hear or that issue before |
| 01:49 |
nm0i |
You can place garage door in protected areas, that's all. |
| 01:51 |
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| 02:01 |
DonBatman |
I will go through it and see what needs protected |
| 02:02 |
DonBatman |
I think the future doors need the same |
| 02:04 |
|
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| 02:04 |
nm0i |
Japanese doors, and some others |
| 02:06 |
hisforever |
nm0i, Did you search mods in google? |
| 02:07 |
nm0i |
hisforever: eh? |
| 02:07 |
nm0i |
Can you provide context for your question please. |
| 02:08 |
hisforever |
search for door mod on hoogle |
| 02:08 |
hisforever |
you asked for Japanese doore so I said search google for mod |
| 02:09 |
nm0i |
Sorry, I don't see joins/parts/quits on freenode. I'm telling D*nBatman which of his doors have no is_protected in on_place |
| 02:10 |
hisforever |
ok |
| 02:10 |
nm0i |
There are japanese doors in xdecor |
| 02:10 |
nm0i |
js |
| 02:10 |
hisforever |
I know I have that mod |
| 02:15 |
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| 02:21 |
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| 02:24 |
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| 02:33 |
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| 02:38 |
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| 03:01 |
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| 03:41 |
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| 04:19 |
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| 06:36 |
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| 06:58 |
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| 07:37 |
nm0i |
Soooo |
| 07:37 |
nm0i |
SadieXXXX adapted |
| 07:39 |
nm0i |
Now they are RandomnameXXXX |
| 07:59 |
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| 08:04 |
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| 08:10 |
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| 08:18 |
Krock |
nm0i, they're evolving |
| 08:19 |
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| 08:43 |
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| 08:52 |
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| 08:56 |
shamoanjac |
who's that person? |
| 09:09 |
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| 09:49 |
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| 10:36 |
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| 10:36 |
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dabbill joined #minetest |
| 10:37 |
dabbill |
Hi, after the latest update i am getting this error Item "doors:door_wood_t_2" not defined |
| 10:39 |
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| 10:39 |
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Fixer joined #minetest |
| 10:40 |
Krock |
dabbill, what version did you have before? |
| 10:43 |
dabbill |
Krock: pretty sure is was 0.4.12 but not 100% sure |
| 10:44 |
dabbill |
Krock: might have been 0.4.13 |
| 10:49 |
Krock |
open minetest_game/mods/doors/init.lua and add ' minetest.register_alias("doors:door_wood_t_2", "doors:hidden") ' on the very bottom of the file |
| 10:49 |
Krock |
I hope this works :3 |
| 10:49 |
Krock |
other doors might be affected by this too |
| 10:50 |
dabbill |
hurm, ~/.minetest/mods/doors does not exist |
| 10:51 |
dabbill |
wonder if the folder got deleted somehow |
| 10:52 |
Krock |
egem |
| 10:52 |
Krock |
it's the games/minetest_game/ directory |
| 10:54 |
Krock |
either it's in ~/.minetest/games/ or the other directory path that I can't remember |
| 10:54 |
dabbill |
all my mods are in ~/.minetest/mods |
| 10:54 |
dabbill |
but no doors directory there |
| 10:55 |
Krock |
I'm not talking about the mods in your /mods/ directory |
| 10:55 |
Krock |
minetest_game is a subgame - a collectino of basic mods |
| 10:55 |
Krock |
*collection |
| 10:55 |
dabbill |
ah |
| 10:56 |
Krock |
that's why you can use the doors, beds and creative stuff without having the mod in your mods directory |
| 10:57 |
dabbill |
found it |
| 10:57 |
dabbill |
/usr/share/minetest/games/minetest_game/mods/doors |
| 10:57 |
Krock |
bingo |
| 11:01 |
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| 11:05 |
dabbill |
lol now i am getting Item "doors:door_wood_t_1" not defined and Item "doors:door_wood_b_1" not defined |
| 11:05 |
dabbill |
guess i just need delete those items and recreate them |
| 11:08 |
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| 11:16 |
Krock |
ehm.. but that's an unfixed bug in the minetest_game code |
| 11:16 |
dabbill |
i might of had a mod that defined those doors, and no longer have that mod |
| 11:17 |
dabbill |
I havnt been on minetest in almost 6 months heh |
| 11:17 |
Krock |
no, these are the default doors |
| 11:17 |
dabbill |
ah |
| 11:17 |
Krock |
but the API and the names of them changed |
| 11:17 |
Krock |
(slightly) |
| 11:17 |
dabbill |
ah |
| 11:21 |
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| 11:27 |
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| 11:27 |
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| 12:18 |
Krock |
42 processed meshes with two players.. that's kinda much IMO |
| 12:18 |
Krock |
(peak value of the profiler) |
| 12:18 |
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| 12:22 |
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| 12:39 |
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| 12:40 |
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| 12:40 |
Fixer |
Krock: probably liquid moving |
| 12:41 |
Krock |
hmm.. there are no liquids around |
| 12:41 |
Krock |
but bees! Maybe they're the reason for that |
| 12:43 |
T4im |
aren't they particles? |
| 12:45 |
T4im |
(which shouldn't be as much meshes as some complex meshnode) |
| 12:46 |
T4im |
eh nvm, braincobble |
| 12:53 |
Krock |
lol |
| 12:54 |
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rubenwardy joined #minetest |
| 12:59 |
T4im |
hey ruben |
| 12:59 |
rubenwardy |
hi T4im |
| 12:59 |
T4im |
btw, i think you lost the linter-warning fixes on that rebase correction |
| 13:03 |
rubenwardy |
ok, i see |
| 13:03 |
rubenwardy |
btw, dump() is a valid global variable |
| 13:03 |
rubenwardy |
mods/sfinv/api.lua:77:56: accessing undefined variable dump |
| 13:03 |
T4im |
yea, that just didn't appear before |
| 13:03 |
T4im |
the luacheckrc is filled on demand, not with everything possible |
| 13:04 |
T4im |
but I'll add it to the pr |
| 13:04 |
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| 13:06 |
rubenwardy |
T4im, https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1179/commits/01fe3ccf0767aaf132ff33466139de7e726be0d5 |
| 13:07 |
rubenwardy |
lol, the capture the flag subgame has 169 warnings |
| 13:08 |
aix |
how am i meant o use global exchange? |
| 13:08 |
T4im |
wouldn't renaming the other variable be less invasive? "owner" as in inventory-owner or something? |
| 13:08 |
T4im |
:D |
| 13:08 |
aix |
i can't sell things if nobody has any money |
| 13:08 |
T4im |
but this works, thanks |
| 13:11 |
linushsao |
It's about who currency work,aix. |
| 13:13 |
linushsao |
I have to think about this, wnr do some experience in my game server |
| 13:14 |
linushsao |
At the same time to prevent inflation |
| 13:17 |
rubenwardy |
T4im, turns out I didn't install the submodule correctly - only 103 warnings |
| 13:17 |
rubenwardy |
and not all of them are my fault |
| 13:18 |
T4im |
well, you'll need to adapt the luacheckrc to each project, copying alone isn't really a good idea imo |
| 13:18 |
rubenwardy |
T4im, already found a bug: https://github.com/rubenwardy/ctf_pvp_engine/blob/ae9c820e03e0b89955ad0701149d374a2ef3f906/ctf/core.lua#L122 |
| 13:19 |
T4im |
hah |
| 13:19 |
T4im |
that's a golden one |
| 13:20 |
T4im |
but yea, at least for so typo introduced syntax errors it's really helpful |
| 13:20 |
T4im |
such* |
| 13:21 |
rubenwardy |
if this was C++, I would have got 10 pages of errors complaining about that typo |
| 13:21 |
rubenwardy |
but because it's lua, it'll only crash if it runs it |
| 13:24 |
rubenwardy |
found another bug: https://github.com/rubenwardy/ctf_pvp_engine/blob/master/ctf_chat/init.lua#L213 |
| 13:37 |
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| 13:39 |
aix |
linushsao: what |
| 13:41 |
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| 13:41 |
DraggonFantasy |
Hello |
| 13:44 |
aix |
can someone explain how global_exchange works? |
| 13:44 |
aix |
everyone's money balance is empty at first right |
| 13:44 |
aix |
and if nobody has any money it's damn pointless |
| 13:45 |
aix |
it looks like there's some sort of citizen's income though |
| 13:45 |
Krock |
btw, aix, why "UNIX geeks"? I'm a windows geek |
| 13:47 |
* shamoanjac |
icks |
| 13:54 |
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| 14:32 |
ElectronLibre |
Auth file corrupted on MFF's skyblock.. Too bad, he lost the monthly bonus on the server list |
| 14:45 |
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| 16:02 |
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| 16:03 |
IhrFussel |
My game server has constant lags (eg. 2-3 chat messages appearing after a few secs at the same time) but the CPU load is LESS than 20% O.O Also RAM usage is ~ 50% ... what is causing this? |
| 16:04 |
T4im |
probably mapgen |
| 16:04 |
T4im |
people mining in areas not generated yet, will cause mapgen to start up |
| 16:05 |
T4im |
or explorers :) |
| 16:05 |
IhrFussel |
T4im, can WorldEdit be a cause for that too? |
| 16:05 |
T4im |
if you worldedit a lot at once, yes |
| 16:05 |
IhrFussel |
T4im, and if i WE only a small area but a lot of them? |
| 16:06 |
T4im |
well, only for the time that you are actually editing |
| 16:06 |
T4im |
you have lag spikes or constant high lag? |
| 16:06 |
T4im |
you could start up the ingame profiler and take a look if any mods stand out |
| 16:07 |
T4im |
profiler.load = true |
| 16:08 |
T4im |
and after a while you can check /profiler print in game |
| 16:09 |
IhrFussel |
Judging by the chat log the game seems to lag 2-3 x per minute meaning chat messages appear suddenly at the same sec |
| 16:10 |
IhrFussel |
I will try that thanks |
| 16:11 |
IhrFussel |
I simply add "profilder.load = true" to minetest.conf? |
| 16:11 |
IhrFussel |
profiler* |
| 16:12 |
T4im |
yea, or in the advanced settings dialog |
| 16:12 |
T4im |
ah wait, server, not settings dialog |
| 16:12 |
T4im |
yes, minetest.conf then |
| 16:13 |
IhrFussel |
T4im, will it slow the server down a lot? |
| 16:13 |
T4im |
no, instrumentation overhead is pretty small |
| 16:13 |
T4im |
only 3µs here |
| 16:13 |
IhrFussel |
Okay just making sure, else I'd have to inform my players about that xP |
| 16:16 |
T4im |
you'll need a semi-recent git build though, that profiler isn't in there for too long |
| 16:17 |
T4im |
added 25days ago |
| 16:18 |
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| 16:19 |
Void7 |
minetest still crashes :( |
| 16:22 |
Void7 |
ok, commented out draw_wielded_item and it works |
| 16:24 |
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| 16:31 |
IhrFussel |
I can't use it then...my build is 0.4.13-dev from May |
| 16:34 |
Void7 |
aaandd.. crashed again |
| 16:41 |
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| 16:42 |
IhrFussel |
Seems like I need to find out the bad mod without the help of the profiler, oh well |
| 16:42 |
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| 17:22 |
IhrFussel |
I just read in the forums that the amount of player files can cause laggy servers...is this still true?? I have over 19,000 |
| 17:24 |
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| 17:41 |
Hijiri |
aix: yeah, the only source of inflation is the citizen's income |
| 17:41 |
aix |
Hijiri: I don't seem to be getting anything |
| 17:42 |
Hijiri |
It's every 20 minutes if I remember correctly |
| 17:42 |
aix |
I read the code, but it doesn't give any cash |
| 17:42 |
aix |
does it exempt people with particular privileges? |
| 17:42 |
Hijiri |
what do you mean by cash? |
| 17:42 |
Hijiri |
the credit? |
| 17:43 |
aix |
yes |
| 17:43 |
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| 17:44 |
Hijiri |
not sure what code you are looking at, but there's a give_credits at line 33 of init.lua |
| 17:44 |
aix |
yeah |
| 17:44 |
aix |
i see the line |
| 17:45 |
aix |
don't appear to be getting anything though |
| 17:45 |
Hijiri |
you're not getting the message? |
| 17:45 |
Hijiri |
Or you don't see your balance increasing? |
| 17:50 |
Hijiri |
you can shorten the income interval in your configuration file if you want to be able to test more quickly |
| 17:50 |
Hijiri |
oh wait, no you can't |
| 17:50 |
Hijiri |
you can shorten it in the code though |
| 17:58 |
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| 18:15 |
aix |
Hirato: alright, i'll test it |
| 18:18 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, you there? |
| 18:22 |
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| 18:26 |
KaadmY |
does minetest support a joystick for looking around? |
| 18:26 |
* KaadmY |
wonders if support for a seperate head angle and crosshair is possible |
| 18:26 |
thePalindrome |
iirc you'd need something like joy2key |
| 18:26 |
Krock |
ther's a joystick support, yes |
| 18:26 |
* thePalindrome |
shouldn't be listened to at this time of day :P |
| 18:27 |
* KaadmY |
smiles at the thought of looking around while digging |
| 18:27 |
Krock |
that head stuff can be done (with some haxx) in Lua |
| 18:27 |
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| 18:27 |
thePalindrome |
It'd be better to have that in the C side, mainly because it's graphical manipulation |
| 18:27 |
KaadmY |
lua would be slow and server-side probably |
| 18:28 |
thePalindrome |
lua is only server side right now |
| 18:29 |
KaadmY |
<KaadmY> lua would be slow and server-side probably |
| 18:29 |
KaadmY |
yeah that's what i said :P |
| 18:30 |
thePalindrome |
not probably, for sure :P |
| 18:30 |
shamoanjac |
agrecascino, I am here |
| 18:30 |
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| 18:37 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, want to work on the integration with me? |
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| 19:06 |
shamoanjac |
yes agrecascino |
| 19:08 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, alright |
| 19:09 |
shamoanjac |
I have started writing a couple node definitions for the integration |
| 19:09 |
shamoanjac |
namely a power banner |
| 19:09 |
shamoanjac |
made of gold |
| 19:09 |
shamoanjac |
and silver |
| 19:10 |
agrecascino |
should i create a function for modifying power, or should you just directly modify the value? |
| 19:10 |
shamoanjac |
expose me a comprehensible API |
| 19:11 |
shamoanjac |
so that I can do stuff like |
| 19:11 |
shamoanjac |
local faction = factions.get_player_faction("playername") |
| 19:11 |
shamoanjac |
and then |
| 19:11 |
shamoanjac |
faction:increase_power(value) |
| 19:12 |
shamoanjac |
(with something like faction:player_has_privilege("player", "claiming") |
| 19:14 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, factions aren't objects |
| 19:14 |
shamoanjac |
uhm |
| 19:14 |
agrecascino |
they're just structs, with no functions |
| 19:14 |
shamoanjac |
it'd be great if you gave them a couple methods |
| 19:15 |
agrecascino |
oh maybe just make a function like factionsmod.change_power(name,change) |
| 19:15 |
shamoanjac |
that could work, too |
| 19:15 |
shamoanjac |
not my favourite, but it'd work |
| 19:16 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, yeah, the mod isn't very clean anyway |
| 19:16 |
agrecascino |
i'll get to cleaning it up eventually |
| 19:17 |
thePalindrome |
Oh? |
| 19:17 |
Hijiri |
If you clean it later it will take more work than cleaning it now |
| 19:17 |
Hijiri |
because you will be building more code that needs to be cleaned since you're building on a base that needs to be cleaned |
| 19:18 |
thePalindrome |
^ |
| 19:18 |
Hijiri |
agrecascino: method syntax blah:stuff(...) is just syntax sugar for blah.stuff(blah, ...) |
| 19:19 |
Hijiri |
you can put the functions directly in the faction or use a metatable |
| 19:19 |
Hijiri |
if you are using minetest.serialize on them you will probably want to go metatables so you don't try to serialize the functions |
| 19:20 |
Hijiri |
If a table's metatable has an "__index" key with the value of another table, that table will be used to look up things not in the original table |
| 19:20 |
agrecascino |
Hijiri, i'm not sure if i hate myself enough to clean this up\ |
| 19:20 |
Hijiri |
if you love yourself you should clean it up |
| 19:20 |
Hijiri |
otherwise you will be working with an unclean API until you clean it |
| 19:21 |
thePalindrome |
Which might break |
| 19:21 |
thePalindrome |
*break other things |
| 19:21 |
shamoanjac |
how many loc in your file agrecascino ? |
| 19:21 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, 945 for the actual factions mod |
| 19:21 |
agrecascino |
500 for chat commands |
| 19:22 |
agrecascino |
last i checked |
| 19:23 |
shamoanjac |
woah |
| 19:24 |
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| 19:30 |
thePalindrome |
Is anybody here working on a mod that has a "network" in it? Along the lines of technic/ic2? |
| 19:31 |
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| 19:32 |
T4im |
if you have a clever solution to the issue behind them, let us know :P |
| 19:32 |
thePalindrome |
? |
| 19:33 |
shamoanjac |
agrecascino, you didn't post the factions mod on the forum, did you? |
| 19:33 |
T4im |
well the cable network in technic for example causes a lot of forceloading and iterating through the networks, which can be quite large on a multiplayer server |
| 19:33 |
shamoanjac |
tfw no GitHub stars on my GitHub banners repo :( |
| 19:34 |
shamoanjac |
I only code for social reputation |
| 19:34 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, no, and i wouldn't, since it's such a smess |
| 19:34 |
T4im |
lies there is a star |
| 19:34 |
agrecascino |
mess* |
| 19:34 |
shamoanjac |
agrecascino, fork'd |
| 19:36 |
agaran |
T4im: heh.. |
| 19:36 |
T4im |
i just didn't star it yet, because i still had it open in a tab! |
| 19:36 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, i added the function |
| 19:37 |
thePalindrome |
Ah darn, I was wondering if anybody had any ideas :P I'm thinking there might need to be another hook in the engine |
| 19:37 |
shamoanjac |
factionsmod.data.factionsmod[name] |
| 19:38 |
shamoanjac |
I personally find this way of writing stuff inconvenient :P |
| 19:38 |
T4im |
thePalindrome: yea networks are a conundrum in minetest |
| 19:39 |
agrecascino |
well |
| 19:39 |
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| 19:39 |
agrecascino |
it was factions.data.factions |
| 19:39 |
agrecascino |
but since mobf would try to access factions |
| 19:39 |
agrecascino |
i had to change the baseclass name |
| 19:40 |
agrecascino |
and find and replace doesn't care about you feeling |
| 19:40 |
agaran |
T4im: for my cabling I am trying to make it work mostly without querying map, but it is slooow work with that code.. I don't know lua really |
| 19:40 |
agrecascino |
feelings* |
| 19:40 |
T4im |
shamoanjac: rawget(_G["actionsmod"]["data"].factionsmod, name) is inconvenient :P |
| 19:40 |
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| 19:40 |
* T4im |
calms down again |
| 19:40 |
shamoanjac |
lel |
| 19:41 |
thePalindrome |
Yeah, I'm considering taking a look at buildcraft et al. to see if there are any algorithmic changes I can make |
| 19:41 |
T4im |
agaran: the lua is not the issue, there are plenty lua-firm people that might have an interest in such a thing, it really just needs a clever solution |
| 19:43 |
agaran |
T4im: I gather topology at node-placing time then during running of stuff it does not need map at all.. thats my goal at least |
| 19:43 |
T4im |
yea, but then when someone digs a node in the mid of the network, you have to split that network and inform every consumer |
| 19:43 |
agaran |
not a problem.. |
| 19:44 |
T4im |
and eventually merge networks in another situation |
| 19:44 |
thePalindrome |
Heck, I wrote some code to re-arrange some blocks relative to their neighbors, but the detection can take quite some time |
| 19:44 |
thePalindrome |
Also, the Windows timer is useless |
| 19:44 |
agaran |
because if one -digs- node, then given block is actually loaded.. |
| 19:44 |
thePalindrome |
It has a 10 millisecond precision! |
| 19:44 |
agaran |
thePalindrome: who said that windows has anything accurate.. ? |
| 19:44 |
thePalindrome |
touche |
| 19:44 |
thePalindrome |
I pity my friend :P |
| 19:44 |
T4im |
agaran: loaded yes, but you still have to update the datastructure representing the network without being able to iterate every node |
| 19:44 |
* agaran |
is not a windows fan |
| 19:45 |
agaran |
T4im: yep, true, modifications are done less often than actual operation so still even if on update you have to do forceloading/anyloading, still it is more efficient imo |
| 19:45 |
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| 19:46 |
T4im |
well, technic already caches the network for example, the issue is when you start changing it, then the cache invalidates and it has to iterate through *everthing*, that's when things get laggy, and people build one node after the other, so that happens a lot |
| 19:46 |
agaran |
T4im: yup, I solved so far that by if you remove node belonging to net-1, only net-1 need be rescanned |
| 19:46 |
agaran |
not -whole- all world of nets |
| 19:47 |
thePalindrome |
Aye, I profiled my code, and the network iteration is the most intensive |
| 19:47 |
T4im |
yea, an improvement, not quite the solution i think could be possible with some really clever datastructures :D |
| 19:48 |
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| 19:48 |
T4im |
might need going through some graph theoretical stuff to find something that might already be around :D |
| 19:48 |
agaran |
I wanted to avoid caching whole topology.. |
| 19:49 |
agaran |
which could give one side benefit but I am not going to simulate whole kirchof's law and conductor current overload.. |
| 19:49 |
T4im |
but for example, when you merge two medium networks, agaran, don't you have to change the nodemetadata of all the networks nodes? |
| 19:49 |
T4im |
that might for example be even worse than just iterating them :P |
| 19:50 |
agaran |
hmm.. for one of them only, other is intact.. I know it is not perfect but I wanted to avoid making it complex |
| 19:50 |
agaran |
I cache list of active pieces in net (not list of wiring) because thats only important part for run-net code |
| 19:52 |
agaran |
but true, plan was to visit every node of one of two merged networks and update metadata for them |
| 19:52 |
aix |
Hijiri: are you 100% sure that the income system works? |
| 19:52 |
aix |
what did you test it on? |
| 19:52 |
Hijiri |
I ran a server with global_exchange on it for a while |
| 19:52 |
Hijiri |
not anymore though |
| 19:52 |
T4im |
each time you change node metadata the entire block is resend to the client iirc |
| 19:53 |
Hijiri |
maybe something changed since them, let me review the commit log |
| 19:53 |
Hijiri |
I pulled some cosmetic changes from someone else |
| 19:53 |
Hijiri |
hmm, maybe it's not creating an account for you? |
| 19:54 |
Hijiri |
This is a recent version, right? |
| 19:54 |
agaran |
T4im: oh, thats good to know, so it pays to postpone metadata update and do it in chunks.. |
| 19:54 |
Hijiri |
it was changed at some point to automatically make accounts, let me check to see if it should work |
| 19:55 |
agaran |
T4im: I'll test that when I get working most of code.. |
| 19:55 |
agaran |
when you test at 127.0.0.1 timing for network is non-issue |
| 19:56 |
Hijiri |
aix: If it's an old version it will require making an account at the ATM though |
| 19:56 |
Hijiri |
I looked and there doesn't seem to be anything wrong, let me see if it works for me |
| 19:56 |
aix |
Hijiri: it's the latest git |
| 19:56 |
aix |
Hijiri: would a database from an old version cause citizens to not get paid? |
| 19:57 |
Hijiri |
I don't think so, I didn't change the schema or anything between versions |
| 19:57 |
Hijiri |
I'm getting paid |
| 19:57 |
Hijiri |
so are you missing both the message and the balance increase? |
| 19:57 |
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| 19:58 |
Hijiri |
aix: did it work for you at some point in the past? |
| 19:58 |
agaran |
T4im: hmm.. I wonder if reading metadata also causes reloads but I guess not so I can cache metadata updates just query/update module memory and on last step in batch updating metadata for nodes.. |
| 19:59 |
shamoanjac |
agrecascino, what is "reputation"? |
| 19:59 |
aix |
Hijiri: I can't recall citizens ever getting paid |
| 20:00 |
thePalindrome |
*gasp* That's slave labor! |
| 20:01 |
agaran |
thePalindrome: Hmm? |
| 20:01 |
Hijiri |
aix: just to be extra sure, the atm has no registration button, right? |
| 20:01 |
shamoanjac |
lel @ the six levels of indentation |
| 20:01 |
aix |
no button, nope |
| 20:02 |
thePalindrome |
aix | Hijiri: I can't recall citizens ever getting paid |
| 20:02 |
aix |
lol |
| 20:02 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, a mechanic that isn't used |
| 20:02 |
Hijiri |
aix: alright |
| 20:03 |
Hijiri |
I can't tell what the issue is though, since it's working on my computer |
| 20:05 |
aix |
what minetest version are you using? |
| 20:05 |
Hijiri |
0.4.14 |
| 20:05 |
Hijiri |
This was written for 0.4.13 originally though |
| 20:06 |
Hijiri |
aix: can you change line 33 "local succ" to "local succ err", and then do print(succ, err) on line 35? |
| 20:06 |
Hijiri |
then set the income interval to something low and see if it prints anything |
| 20:07 |
Hijiri |
line 33 and 35 of init.lua |
| 20:09 |
aix |
niltrue |
| 20:09 |
aix |
i think thats bad right |
| 20:09 |
aix |
wait |
| 20:09 |
Hijiri |
nil true and not true nil? |
| 20:09 |
aix |
it works |
| 20:09 |
aix |
... |
| 20:10 |
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| 20:10 |
aix |
okay the only thing i changed is the map |
| 20:10 |
shamoanjac |
agrecascino, I've written a factions "class" for easy API |
| 20:10 |
shamoanjac |
with permissions/groups mechanism |
| 20:10 |
shamoanjac |
http://pastebin.com/srisz0i1 |
| 20:10 |
shamoanjac |
tell me what you think |
| 20:10 |
agrecascino |
fuckin' magic |
| 20:11 |
Hijiri |
is the place it wasn't working originally a server? |
| 20:11 |
shamoanjac |
?? |
| 20:11 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, sensible |
| 20:11 |
shamoanjac |
I'm not sure what you mean by that |
| 20:11 |
Hijiri |
actually nevermind, you said that earlier |
| 20:11 |
shamoanjac |
the goal is to get rid of the 4 levels of members you've created |
| 20:11 |
shamoanjac |
and instead call stuff such as |
| 20:12 |
shamoanjac |
factionsmod.get_faction("Normandy"):decrease_power(5.) |
| 20:12 |
Hijiri |
if possible you should try to test on the same place it wasn't working, but that might be hard if your players expect not to have a sudden reset |
| 20:12 |
Hijiri |
maybe you can clone the server and run it separately |
| 20:12 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, i like it |
| 20:12 |
Hijiri |
see what happens if you log in as an existing user or a new user |
| 20:12 |
shamoanjac |
of course, admins would be allowed to create their own ranks |
| 20:12 |
shamoanjac |
ok, I'll adapt the rest of the code |
| 20:13 |
aix |
now it doesn't work again |
| 20:13 |
aix |
which files does this read/write? |
| 20:14 |
Hijiri |
worldpath/global_exchange.db |
| 20:14 |
Hijiri |
I think that is the only one, other than script files |
| 20:15 |
aix |
would settings in the bitchange file affect it? |
| 20:15 |
Hijiri |
I don't think so, global_exchange doesn't do anything with bitchange |
| 20:16 |
Krock |
I can confirm that bitchange does not support global_exchange itself |
| 20:16 |
shamoanjac |
as a tip, agrecascino, instead of returning true/false on creation functions, return the object |
| 20:16 |
shamoanjac |
or nil |
| 20:17 |
shamoanjac |
so that you can still use the if syntax but also you don't have to call another method to get the object |
| 20:17 |
Hijiri |
if only lua had references so you could do output arguments :P |
| 20:18 |
Krock |
use tables for that |
| 20:18 |
Krock |
they have a reference |
| 20:18 |
Hijiri |
it's not pass-by-reference though |
| 20:18 |
T4im |
it is |
| 20:18 |
Hijiri |
it's not |
| 20:18 |
shamoanjac |
it is |
| 20:18 |
T4im |
tables, even functions are |
| 20:18 |
Hijiri |
a pointer is a value |
| 20:19 |
Hijiri |
not a reference |
| 20:19 |
shamoanjac |
:^( |
| 20:19 |
Hijiri |
I mean, it's not pass by reference |
| 20:19 |
Hijiri |
you are passing a pointer by value |
| 20:19 |
shamoanjac |
a reference is a pointer |
| 20:19 |
shamoanjac |
just with some syntactic sugar |
| 20:19 |
Hijiri |
pass-by-reference means the variable itself gets passed, not a pointer |
| 20:19 |
Void7 |
when i rename a mod, the world complains that it can't find the mod with the old name |
| 20:19 |
shamoanjac |
and a bit more rules |
| 20:19 |
Void7 |
but i can't disable that mod |
| 20:19 |
Void7 |
because it's not in the configure menu |
| 20:19 |
Hijiri |
this is what pass by reference would do: |
| 20:19 |
shamoanjac |
no, pass-by-reference means the variable doesn't get passed |
| 20:20 |
shamoanjac |
but rather a reference to the variable (which is usually a pointer at the low-level) |
| 20:20 |
T4im |
"Tables, functions, threads, and (full) userdata values are objects: variables do not actually contain these values, only references to them." |
| 20:20 |
T4im |
for the full list of references objects |
| 20:20 |
Hijiri |
"reference" as a value is different from "pass by reference" |
| 20:20 |
T4im |
referencable* |
| 20:20 |
Hijiri |
yes, tables and functions, threads etc. are references |
| 20:20 |
Hijiri |
but they are not passed by reference |
| 20:20 |
Krock |
referen cable |
| 20:21 |
T4im |
the references to those values are passed |
| 20:21 |
Hijiri |
yes references are passed |
| 20:21 |
Hijiri |
but "pass by reference" doesn't just mean "pass a reference value" |
| 20:21 |
shamoanjac |
is a copy of the object created in the scope of the function? |
| 20:21 |
shamoanjac |
yes -> pass by value |
| 20:21 |
shamoanjac |
no -> pass by reference |
| 20:21 |
Hijiri |
It is a name for a particular way of passing arguments |
| 20:21 |
agaran |
T4im: so wrapping common code in function and calling it when needed is faster way? |
| 20:21 |
Hijiri |
shamoanjac: Then passing tables is of course not pass by reference |
| 20:21 |
Hijiri |
because it copies the pointer |
| 20:21 |
aix |
Hirato: alright, cloning the world |
| 20:21 |
shamoanjac |
the pointer is the reference |
| 20:21 |
Hijiri |
yes |
| 20:21 |
Hijiri |
it's a value |
| 20:22 |
Hijiri |
it is not the table itself |
| 20:22 |
shamoanjac |
of course not |
| 20:22 |
shamoanjac |
that's why it's passed by reference |
| 20:22 |
Krock |
##c++ |
| 20:22 |
Hijiri |
it is not passed by reference, because it already *is* the reference |
| 20:22 |
shamoanjac |
I think you should try to do some C |
| 20:22 |
Hijiri |
C doesn't have pass-by-reference |
| 20:22 |
shamoanjac |
you'd understand better the concept |
| 20:22 |
Hijiri |
You should do some C++ |
| 20:22 |
Hijiri |
The difference is obvious there |
| 20:22 |
Krock |
there are only pointers in C |
| 20:23 |
shamoanjac |
I have done a lot of C++ |
| 20:23 |
Krock |
and Lua is C |
| 20:23 |
shamoanjac |
no, Lua is Lua |
| 20:23 |
shamoanjac |
the common implementation of the interpreter might be in C |
| 20:23 |
Krock |
no, it can't reproduce itself |
| 20:23 |
agaran |
Krock: yet ;) |
| 20:23 |
Hijiri |
shamoanjac: then you should be able to tell the difference between a pointer argument and a reference argument (semantically, not implementation-wise) |
| 20:24 |
Krock |
agaran, that doesn't sound good :< |
| 20:24 |
shamoanjac |
semantically, there are next to none in C++, beside the syntactic sugar and the fact that references cannot be NULL and are constants |
| 20:24 |
agaran |
Krock: I mean, you can write lua interpreter in lua.. will be just slow.. |
| 20:24 |
Hijiri |
syntax sugar is just an implementation detail for references |
| 20:24 |
Hijiri |
The point is that the thing assigned to the name you pass in is changed |
| 20:25 |
Krock |
agaran, right. it could be done in Lua.. somehow |
| 20:25 |
shamoanjac |
not necessarily |
| 20:25 |
Hijiri |
the same way "let" can be implemented as syntax sugar for lambdas in scheme |
| 20:25 |
agaran |
Krock: for sure 'slowly' ;) |
| 20:25 |
Krock |
then let's run it with LuaJIT |
| 20:25 |
T4im |
only for those mentioned objects, strings are interned and only a reference (which is the same over all same strings) is passed, floats are being copied, i.e. they are passed by value |
| 20:26 |
Hijiri |
If lua's tables were passed by reference, it would look like this happens: http://lpaste.net/174725 |
| 20:26 |
Hijiri |
T4im: I didn't contradict that |
| 20:26 |
Hijiri |
I am saying "passing a reference" is not "pass-by-reference" |
| 20:27 |
T4im |
i do |
| 20:27 |
shamoanjac |
what it prints depends on what "==" does in Lua |
| 20:27 |
T4im |
this is the first time i see somoene calling passing values "pass by reference" and passing references "pass by value", it seems odd to me |
| 20:27 |
Hijiri |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy#Call_by_reference |
| 20:28 |
Hijiri |
"Call by reference can be simulated in languages that use call by value and don't exactly support call by reference, by making use of references " |
| 20:28 |
shamoanjac |
so, Hijiri |
| 20:28 |
Hijiri |
"It is not a separate evaluation strategy—the language calls by value—but sometimes it is referred to as call by address (also referred to as pass by address)." |
| 20:28 |
shamoanjac |
do you think tables are copied? |
| 20:28 |
shamoanjac |
they're not |
| 20:28 |
Hijiri |
shamoanjac: No, but the table reference is copied |
| 20:28 |
Hijiri |
I said this already |
| 20:28 |
Krock |
tables asren't copied unless you use table.copy |
| 20:28 |
shamoanjac |
well, that'it |
| 20:28 |
T4im |
yes, the reference is copied, but not the table itself |
| 20:28 |
shamoanjac |
then it's pass by reference |
| 20:28 |
T4im |
^^ |
| 20:28 |
Hijiri |
It's passing the reference by value |
| 20:28 |
Hijiri |
please read wikipedia |
| 20:29 |
T4im |
yes, but the table by reference |
| 20:29 |
Hijiri |
tables aren't values in lua |
| 20:29 |
Hijiri |
it is meaningless to say that the table is passed at all |
| 20:29 |
Hijiri |
only table references are values in lua |
| 20:29 |
shamoanjac |
Hijiri, this stuff is programming languages theory 101 |
| 20:30 |
Hijiri |
shamoanjac: I guess you would fail it then |
| 20:30 |
shamoanjac |
learned it in first year, then formally in second year |
| 20:30 |
shamoanjac |
not at all |
| 20:30 |
Hijiri |
Are you saying those wikipedia editors failed it? |
| 20:30 |
shamoanjac |
the wikipedia editors agree with me |
| 20:30 |
Hijiri |
"It is not a separate evaluation strategy—the language calls by value—but sometimes it is referred to as call by address (also referred to as pass by address)." |
| 20:30 |
shamoanjac |
you're talking about the implementation |
| 20:31 |
T4im |
wikipedia says "Tables are always passed by reference (See Call by sharing):" |
| 20:31 |
Hijiri |
I'm talking about language semantics |
| 20:31 |
T4im |
i think they are right |
| 20:31 |
thePalindrome |
Yeah, they are |
| 20:31 |
shamoanjac |
3>a function receives an implicit reference to a variable used as argument, rather than a copy of its value |
| 20:31 |
Hijiri |
T4im: on the evaluation strategy page? |
| 20:31 |
thePalindrome |
That one bit me |
| 20:31 |
T4im |
no, from the lua page |
| 20:31 |
shamoanjac |
which is exactly what happens with tables |
| 20:31 |
T4im |
:P |
| 20:31 |
Hijiri |
shamoanjac: Tables aren't an implicit reference |
| 20:31 |
shamoanjac |
of course, when you go at the lowest level, references don't exist |
| 20:31 |
Hijiri |
They're an explicit reference |
| 20:31 |
thePalindrome |
Okay, now we're nitpicking :P |
| 20:31 |
Hijiri |
shamoanjac: I'm talking about on the language level |
| 20:31 |
T4im |
pass by electrons! |
| 20:31 |
thePalindrome |
tl;dr everything except tables are passed by value |
| 20:31 |
Hijiri |
"reference to a table" is part of the language, not an implementation |
| 20:32 |
* thePalindrome |
absconds |
| 20:32 |
shamoanjac |
on the language level, by all means and definitions, tables are not passed by value |
| 20:32 |
Hijiri |
Because otherwise, table variable copies wouldn't point to the same table |
| 20:32 |
agaran |
T4im: well electrons are already reused;) |
| 20:32 |
shamoanjac |
note that when you quote what you quoted |
| 20:32 |
Hijiri |
shamoanjac: If by "table", you mean "reference to a table", then it is passed by value. If you mean "the thing holding the values itself", then that is not a lua value |
| 20:32 |
aix |
Hijiri: it only works if i leave the print line |
| 20:33 |
shamoanjac |
they clearly say |
| 20:33 |
Hijiri |
aix: that is strange |
| 20:33 |
shamoanjac |
3>Languages such as C and ML use this technique [of simulating call by reference]. It is not a separate evaluation strategy [...] |
| 20:33 |
Hijiri |
It is not an implementation detail to make this distinction, it is important to the language semantics |
| 20:33 |
Hijiri |
yes, of simulating |
| 20:33 |
Hijiri |
The language itself doesn't pass by reference |
| 20:33 |
shamoanjac |
god |
| 20:33 |
shamoanjac |
when you do a function call |
| 20:34 |
shamoanjac |
foo(table) |
| 20:34 |
Hijiri |
It's a workaround to get behavior similar to call-by-reference |
| 20:34 |
shamoanjac |
what you mean, as a programmer, is that you pass "table" to foo() |
| 20:34 |
shamoanjac |
of course you know it's actually a reference |
| 20:34 |
shamoanjac |
but that's not how you read it |
| 20:34 |
Hijiri |
this isn't about intuitions |
| 20:34 |
Hijiri |
It's about language semantics |
| 20:34 |
shamoanjac |
it's not intuitions |
| 20:34 |
T4im |
the call by reference page seems to be correct too, when you do local sometable = {}, table.insert(sometable, "asd") the function will reiceive "an implicit reference to a variable used as argument, rather than a copy of its value.", it does not get a copy of that table, just an implicit reference to it |
| 20:34 |
shamoanjac |
it's formal mathematics |
| 20:35 |
Hijiri |
T4im: That's not an implicit reference |
| 20:35 |
Hijiri |
it's an explicit reference |
| 20:35 |
Hijiri |
That's part of the language semantics, and is required to have two things refer to "the same table" |
| 20:35 |
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| 20:35 |
Hijiri |
shamoanjac: it's formal mathematics if the language is specified formally |
| 20:35 |
Hijiri |
I don't think Lua is, it just has a reference (ha ha) implementation |
| 20:36 |
shamoanjac |
the reference is already a mathematic model |
| 20:36 |
shamoanjac |
which is formal |
| 20:36 |
Hijiri |
it's not |
| 20:36 |
T4im |
wouldn't an explicit reference be if i gave it the address in memory? |
| 20:36 |
aix |
okay now it doesn't work at all |
| 20:36 |
Hijiri |
It doesn't have to be an address, it just has to semantically be a reference |
| 20:36 |
shamoanjac |
of course it is, even a custom brainfuck interpreter would constitute a formal mathematic model |
| 20:36 |
Hijiri |
shamoanjac: It can't unless the implementation language itself is specified formally |
| 20:37 |
T4im |
either way, explicit or implicit doesn't make a difference that it's the reference, not the value that is passed |
| 20:37 |
shamoanjac |
programming it is a way of specifying it formally |
| 20:37 |
shamoanjac |
that it's readable or not is another thing |
| 20:37 |
Hijiri |
T4im: You were just saying that the reason it is correct is because it is implicit |
| 20:37 |
Hijiri |
That is what the call by reference page is saying, either way |
| 20:37 |
T4im |
then strike the implicit, it was the least important part of that :p |
| 20:38 |
Hijiri |
It is the most important part of that |
| 20:38 |
T4im |
still not sure it's not implicit, but it doesn't matter |
| 20:38 |
Hijiri |
it's what distinguishes it from passing pointers |
| 20:38 |
Hijiri |
(or less dangerous pointers like table references) |
| 20:38 |
Hijiri |
This is the behavior you would get if tables were passed by reference: http://lpaste.net/174725 |
| 20:38 |
T4im |
yea, but both is still passing by reference |
| 20:39 |
Hijiri |
The function can modify the *variable*, not only the thing the pointer in the variable is pointing to |
| 20:39 |
shamoanjac |
no |
| 20:39 |
shamoanjac |
the function cannot modify the reference you give it with respect to the higher function scope |
| 20:40 |
Hijiri |
It could if it was pass-by-reference |
| 20:40 |
shamoanjac |
no, it couldn't |
| 20:40 |
shamoanjac |
Java has pass-by-reference, you can't |
| 20:40 |
shamoanjac |
C++ has pass-by-reference, you can't |
| 20:40 |
Hijiri |
Java doesn't, that's a common misunderstanding |
| 20:40 |
Hijiri |
you can do it in C++ though |
| 20:40 |
shamoanjac |
how? |
| 20:41 |
shamoanjac |
afaik foo(int& ref) cannot modify the reference |
| 20:41 |
Hijiri |
you can have void swap(int &a, int &b) { int temp = a; a = b; b = temp; } |
| 20:41 |
agrecascino |
java has pass-by-and-dont-use-this-language |
| 20:41 |
Hijiri |
Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying |
| 20:41 |
shamoanjac |
that switches the values |
| 20:41 |
shamoanjac |
not the references |
| 20:41 |
shamoanjac |
the references cannot be altered within a function |
| 20:41 |
Hijiri |
Ok, I did misunderstand what you said, then |
| 20:42 |
shamoanjac |
sounds like it yes |
| 20:42 |
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| 20:42 |
Hijiri |
But if you have int c = 1, int d = 2, you can call swap(c, d) and have c = 2, d = 1 |
| 20:42 |
Hijiri |
Do you agree with that, at least? |
| 20:44 |
shamoanjac |
yes |
| 20:45 |
shamoanjac |
that modifies the values, though |
| 20:45 |
Hijiri |
Ok |
| 20:45 |
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| 20:45 |
Hijiri |
And suppose Lua passed tables by reference |
| 20:46 |
agaran |
Hijiri: but for C you would pass c/d as &c and &d I think.. |
| 20:46 |
shamoanjac |
yes |
| 20:46 |
Hijiri |
agaran: That wouldn't be pass by reference |
| 20:46 |
T4im |
"the terminology is inconsistent across different sources." now, that seems to be someone i start to feel comfortable getting behind |
| 20:46 |
Hijiri |
that would be passing the pointers by value |
| 20:46 |
T4im |
something* |
| 20:46 |
shamoanjac |
and the prototype would be swap(int* a, int* b); |
| 20:47 |
agaran |
yep, |
| 20:47 |
Hijiri |
shamoanjac: and those would be explicit references, not implicit ones |
| 20:47 |
shamoanjac |
passing pointers by value is the same as passing objects by reference |
| 20:47 |
Hijiri |
semantically it's not |
| 20:47 |
shamoanjac |
it depends on whether you consider the arguments to be pointers or objects |
| 20:48 |
shamoanjac |
or references or objects |
| 20:48 |
Hijiri |
informally, the semantics of a referenced-passed argument should be "like" the variable passed into the functionn |
| 20:49 |
Hijiri |
Suppose Lua passed tables by reference, and you had a similar swap function. If you had a = { "john" } and b = { "bob" }, swap(a, b) would leave you with a = { "bob" } and b = { "john" } |
| 20:49 |
Hijiri |
With swap having a similar body to the C++ version |
| 20:49 |
Nosrick |
How would I go about boosting the player's damage? |
| 20:49 |
Hijiri |
Without having to wrap a and b in yet another table to do the swapping, of course |
| 20:50 |
Hijiri |
Nosrick: across everything? |
| 20:50 |
Nosrick |
Yeah. |
| 20:50 |
shamoanjac |
depends on how swap is implemented |
| 20:50 |
Hijiri |
Against players: Use custom damage calculations in register_on_punchplayer, Against entities: Make a damage frameworks that mobs hook into |
| 20:50 |
Hijiri |
shamoanjac: I said that the body of the function would be similar to the C++ one |
| 20:50 |
Hijiri |
so function swap(a, b) temp = a, a = b, b = a end |
| 20:50 |
shamoanjac |
so, using the '=' operator? |
| 20:50 |
Hijiri |
yes |
| 20:51 |
shamoanjac |
then the references would change *in* the function |
| 20:51 |
Hijiri |
Nosrick: There is nothing in the base API for boosting damage |
| 20:51 |
shamoanjac |
not out of it |
| 20:51 |
Nosrick |
Ah, damn. |
| 20:51 |
Hijiri |
shamoanjac: yes, because Lua does not have call by reference |
| 20:51 |
Hijiri |
that is my point |
| 20:51 |
shamoanjac |
if you go by that, no language ever has call by reference |
| 20:51 |
Hijiri |
C++ does |
| 20:52 |
T4im |
the use is inconsistent, so calm down :P |
| 20:52 |
shamoanjac |
if you have an std::vector, the same happens |
| 20:52 |
Hijiri |
If the use is inconsistent, we can argue which definition is the most useful |
| 20:52 |
T4im |
people mean different things when saying pass-by-value/reference |
| 20:52 |
T4im |
depending where they come from |
| 20:52 |
Hijiri |
shamoanjac: I omitted the & in Lua, because it doesn't have anything to mark an argument as a reference |
| 20:52 |
shamoanjac |
well not because references are immutable |
| 20:52 |
T4im |
had to check up on that claim, but it indeed seems to be just inconsistently used |
| 20:52 |
Hijiri |
In C++ you would still have it |
| 20:53 |
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| 20:53 |
Hijiri |
T4im: It's more useful to use "pass-by-reference" in the sense I am using, because otherwise there isn't another way to call that evaluation strategy |
| 20:53 |
Hijiri |
passing pointers already can be called passing pointers by value |
| 20:55 |
Hijiri |
shamoanjac: do you mean if I had void swap(std::vector<blah> &a, std::vector<blah> &b) { /* swappy stuff like I did with ints */ } |
| 20:55 |
Hijiri |
then have a = some first vector, b = some second vector, swap(a,b), then it wouldn't turn out as b = some first vector, a = some second vector? |
| 21:00 |
Hijiri |
T4im: the "inconsistent across different sources" is for Call by Sharing, not call by reference |
| 21:01 |
Hijiri |
The Lua page links to Call by Sharing, which says "The semantics of call by sharing differ from call by reference in that assignments to function arguments within the function aren't visible to the caller" |
| 21:01 |
shamoanjac |
yes that's what I mean if I understand correctly |
| 21:02 |
Nosrick |
I am not sure how to go about creating a framework for boosting damage. |
| 21:02 |
Hijiri |
Nosrick: You can recreate the default damage mechanics, but add in a damage multiplier |
| 21:02 |
Hijiri |
you could use a monoid as an API for the damage multiplier |
| 21:02 |
T4im |
Hijiri: i think the confusion extends way behind that |
| 21:03 |
shamoanjac |
agrecascino, do you remember your 6-levels-of-indent function to check whether a player can build or not? |
| 21:03 |
shamoanjac |
look at this |
| 21:03 |
Hijiri |
T4im: rereading, I guess so, since some of the inconsistency it mentions is calling "call by sharing" "call by reference" |
| 21:03 |
shamoanjac |
http://pastebin.com/8vdnDU5w |
| 21:03 |
agrecascino |
remove pos.y > |
| 21:03 |
Nosrick |
Hijiri: Would I look for the code for that in minetest or minetest_game? |
| 21:03 |
T4im |
i guess in the end it's much more important, that we know what happens, even if everyone calls it differently x) |
| 21:03 |
shamoanjac |
no vertical limitation for claiming? |
| 21:03 |
agrecascino |
yes |
| 21:04 |
shamoanjac |
ok |
| 21:04 |
agrecascino |
imagine someone goin 512 up |
| 21:04 |
Hijiri |
Nosrick: It's either in builtin or in the engine, I think |
| 21:04 |
Hijiri |
so in minetest |
| 21:04 |
agrecascino |
and building a bae above theirs |
| 21:04 |
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| 21:04 |
agrecascino |
just to jump into their base |
| 21:06 |
shamoanjac |
I'd assume they'd die upon falling |
| 21:06 |
shamoanjac |
you can use whatever you want as a table key in Lua, right? |
| 21:06 |
T4im |
i think nil doesn't work |
| 21:06 |
T4im |
as key :) |
| 21:06 |
shamoanjac |
I'm not foolish enough to do table[nil] |
| 21:07 |
T4im |
heh |
| 21:07 |
shamoanjac |
imagine I'd open an interdimensional portal or something |
| 21:07 |
T4im |
but yes, you can use other tables or even functions as keys |
| 21:07 |
shamoanjac |
that's cool |
| 21:07 |
Nosrick |
I'm not even sure where to begin with this... |
| 21:10 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, pouring water from the base above? |
| 21:12 |
shamoanjac |
ah yeah |
| 21:13 |
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| 21:15 |
shamoanjac |
factionsmod.takeover() changes the faction's owner, right? |
| 21:15 |
agrecascino |
does that function exist? |
| 21:15 |
agrecascino |
i didn't implement that feature yet |
| 21:15 |
shamoanjac |
yes |
| 21:15 |
agrecascino |
oh wait |
| 21:15 |
agrecascino |
no |
| 21:15 |
agrecascino |
takeover takes a cynk |
| 21:15 |
shamoanjac |
just below the member_add documenation lel |
| 21:15 |
agrecascino |
chunk* |
| 21:15 |
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| 21:16 |
agrecascino |
takeover takes a a single chunk claim, and claims it for your faction |
| 21:16 |
agrecascino |
taking the land over |
| 21:16 |
shamoanjac |
okay |
| 21:16 |
agrecascino |
that _IS_ implemented |
| 21:17 |
Nosrick |
How would I write a function to intercept/hook into the vanilla on_punch method? |
| 21:20 |
shamoanjac |
the vanilla function is minetest.on_punch, I believe |
| 21:20 |
shamoanjac |
you could do |
| 21:21 |
shamoanjac |
on_punch = function(whatever) |
| 21:21 |
shamoanjac |
my_function() |
| 21:21 |
shamoanjac |
minetest.on_punch(whatever) |
| 21:21 |
shamoanjac |
end |
| 21:21 |
shamoanjac |
I think |
| 21:21 |
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| 21:21 |
Nosrick |
Ah, thank you! |
| 21:22 |
Nosrick |
Hey PilzAdam! |
| 21:22 |
shamoanjac |
does Lua shit itself if I do table.remove(myTable, value) and value isn't in table? |
| 21:22 |
shamoanjac |
or can I call it safely without checks? |
| 21:22 |
Hijiri |
I don't see any minetest.on_punch (or core.on_punch) |
| 21:23 |
Hijiri |
with grep |
| 21:23 |
T4im |
table.remove doesn't take a value there, but a position |
| 21:23 |
T4im |
it's just for lists |
| 21:23 |
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| 21:23 |
shamoanjac |
ah right |
| 21:23 |
T4im |
you want to set a value to nil |
| 21:23 |
T4im |
eh an entry |
| 21:24 |
* T4im |
will avoid the term value all day |
| 21:24 |
T4im |
:D |
| 21:24 |
Nosrick |
Damn, so I can't override any on_punch stuff? |
| 21:24 |
T4im |
hm? |
| 21:24 |
shamoanjac |
so, if I have a list, I have to first check the position of the element in the list, and then call table.remove()? |
| 21:24 |
agaran |
Nosrick: well I am sure you can |
| 21:24 |
shamoanjac |
you can override, that's for sure |
| 21:25 |
Nosrick |
How would I do that? |
| 21:25 |
shamoanjac |
just set on_punch = function [...] in your entity/node definition |
| 21:25 |
agaran |
Nosrick: fetch like dirt node (default:dirt), get registered_nodes['default:dirt'].on_punch, save in var inside your module.. use as generic on punch? |
| 21:25 |
shamoanjac |
I thought you wanted to extend the existing on_punch |
| 21:25 |
agaran |
that is if you want to run default one aside of your code |
| 21:25 |
Nosrick |
No, I think I need to replace the original. |
| 21:26 |
shamoanjac |
if you want to replace it completely, you're fine with just setting on_punch |
| 21:26 |
shamoanjac |
and then writing the function you want |
| 21:26 |
Nosrick |
So how would I make the player take less damage from certain enemies? Override their on_punch? |
| 21:27 |
T4im |
you can call the default with minetest.nodedef_default.on_punch for example, which usually should be minetest..node_punch, well at least for nodes; what are you punching ? |
| 21:27 |
T4im |
ah entities |
| 21:28 |
agaran |
T4im: another thing I did not know about, minetest.nodedef_default :) |
| 21:28 |
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| 21:28 |
T4im |
there's also such a table for other types of definitions |
| 21:30 |
agaran |
somehow I feel that when I eventually publish my cables code I'll get a lot of comments that I did it wrong... |
| 21:30 |
* T4im |
wonders if there is even a default on_punch for entities |
| 21:30 |
Hijiri |
It might be worth having a separate damage framework that mobs can hook into |
| 21:30 |
Nosrick |
Should I perhaps hook into on_hpchange? |
| 21:30 |
Hijiri |
since entities in general are not mobs |
| 21:30 |
shamoanjac |
I wouldn't go to on_hpchange |
| 21:30 |
Hijiri |
on_hpchange doesn't tell you what caused the damage, like poison |
| 21:31 |
shamoanjac |
since I assume that callback is called after dealing damage |
| 21:31 |
Nosrick |
Ah, it's just the raw damage. |
| 21:31 |
shamoanjac |
also that |
| 21:31 |
Hijiri |
only problem is people would have to actually use the framework |
| 21:32 |
Nosrick |
I've never written a framework before. |
| 21:32 |
Hijiri |
shamoanjac: Here's some code that contradicts what you said (if I communicated what I meant to say well earlier): http://lpaste.net/174730 |
| 21:32 |
Nosrick |
So that'd be a challenge. |
| 21:32 |
Hijiri |
I have to eat but I'll be back in a bit |
| 21:33 |
Hijiri |
Nosrick: It helps to come up with the API before writing the code |
| 21:33 |
Hijiri |
it can be comfy, sort of like theorycrafting |
| 21:33 |
shamoanjac |
use pen and paper |
| 21:33 |
Nosrick |
I'm terrible at theorycrafting. |
| 21:34 |
Hijiri |
I need to eat but I'll be back |
| 21:34 |
Nosrick |
See you in a bit. |
| 21:35 |
agrecascino |
can minetest decode videos? |
| 21:36 |
Calinou |
agrecascino: no |
| 21:36 |
agrecascino |
that's disappointing |
| 21:36 |
agrecascino |
i'd like to see https://a.pomf.cat/cwvxhp.webm play when you turn on a computer in-game |
| 21:37 |
shamoanjac |
9>anime background |
| 21:37 |
shamoanjac |
9>anime intro song |
| 21:37 |
Nosrick |
>this does greentext |
| 21:37 |
shamoanjac |
but yeah I'd like to see it |
| 21:37 |
Nosrick |
Hoooo dayyum |
| 21:37 |
shamoanjac |
hehe Nosrick I have the sikrit power |
| 21:38 |
T4im |
you can do animated textures though |
| 21:38 |
agrecascino |
and stream music separately? |
| 21:38 |
Calinou |
music streaming is not possible |
| 21:38 |
shamoanjac |
you can play an ogg |
| 21:38 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, good enough |
| 21:38 |
agrecascino |
also |
| 21:38 |
agrecascino |
sauce was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI0KmPebU2g |
| 21:38 |
shamoanjac |
pls add weeb computer |
| 21:40 |
shamoanjac |
agrecascino, what is "get_factionsmod(object)"? |
| 21:40 |
agaran |
I am glad it can't open stream as texture/sound.. it would require lot more bandwidth to play then.. |
| 21:40 |
shamoanjac |
only if you download it on the fly |
| 21:40 |
Nosrick |
I'm looking at the punch method in ObjectRef. Is there a way to globally override that? |
| 21:41 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, gets a list of factions a player is in |
| 21:41 |
shamoanjac |
a Quake-like system for mods would be goat |
| 21:41 |
agaran |
shamoanjac: or you would need nearly infinite cache.. you know how it ends.. ppl start to stream things off youtube.. etc |
| 21:41 |
shamoanjac |
so a player can be in several factions? |
| 21:41 |
shamoanjac |
okay |
| 21:41 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, no |
| 21:41 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, nononononono |
| 21:42 |
shamoanjac |
? |
| 21:42 |
agrecascino |
it used to be that way, but i changed it |
| 21:42 |
agrecascino |
since that makes no sense |
| 21:42 |
shamoanjac |
I'm quite confused by the function |
| 21:42 |
shamoanjac |
it's a get_*, yet it calls table.insert() |
| 21:42 |
shamoanjac |
oh right |
| 21:43 |
shamoanjac |
it builds a table |
| 21:43 |
shamoanjac |
a table of... objects? |
| 21:43 |
shamoanjac |
what kind of objects? |
| 21:45 |
shamoanjac |
btw factionsmod.lua now has 419 loc |
| 21:45 |
shamoanjac |
and will get less when I rewrite save() and load() |
| 21:45 |
shamoanjac |
a lot saner! :^) |
| 21:45 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, is factionsmod.lua done yet? |
| 21:45 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, oh shit |
| 21:45 |
agrecascino |
we have to make a converter, for the old factionsmod.conf |
| 21:46 |
shamoanjac |
I have also removed without looking at them all the reputation stuff |
| 21:46 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, good |
| 21:47 |
agrecascino |
also |
| 21:47 |
agrecascino |
might do an ally system |
| 21:47 |
shamoanjac |
yes |
| 21:47 |
shamoanjac |
fields allies and enemies in factions |
| 21:47 |
agrecascino |
i was thinking you could ally whole factions |
| 21:47 |
shamoanjac |
allies["faction"] = true |
| 21:48 |
shamoanjac |
allies["faction"] = nil |
| 21:48 |
agrecascino |
yeah |
| 21:48 |
shamoanjac |
same for enemies |
| 21:48 |
shamoanjac |
it's also the system I've used for invites |
| 21:50 |
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| 21:52 |
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| 21:55 |
agrecascino |
agrecascino, how are we going to convert factionsmod.conf to the new and improved factionsmod.conf |
| 21:56 |
shamoanjac |
I suppose you meant to highlight me |
| 21:56 |
shamoanjac |
first of all we don't call it .conf |
| 21:56 |
shamoanjac |
secondly, I guess a Lua function would do the trick |
| 21:57 |
shamoanjac |
though I'd rather scrap the old way |
| 21:57 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, i mean, like a function to take the old conf |
| 21:57 |
agrecascino |
and write the new one |
| 21:58 |
shamoanjac |
yeah I understood |
| 21:58 |
shamoanjac |
I personally wouldn't bother with it since nobody is using the mod atm |
| 21:58 |
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| 21:58 |
shamoanjac |
and the only faction created on the server is Finland with three people |
| 22:00 |
agrecascino |
what |
| 22:01 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, you're sort of wrong |
| 22:01 |
agrecascino |
actually |
| 22:02 |
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| 22:02 |
agrecascino |
let me rephrase that to describe the extent to which you are wrong |
| 22:02 |
agrecascino |
"what" |
| 22:02 |
Laster |
Hi everyone |
| 22:03 |
shamoanjac |
hi Laster |
| 22:03 |
Laster |
I'm writing an article on wikipedia about minetest |
| 22:03 |
agrecascino |
https://pastebin.com/yBg1CuaZ |
| 22:03 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, there's a lot of people using it |
| 22:03 |
shamoanjac |
alright |
| 22:03 |
Laster |
so i am looking for some sources, for example about the history and popularity of minetest |
| 22:03 |
shamoanjac |
well we'll write one |
| 22:04 |
shamoanjac |
3>xXWeedGoku420Xx |
| 22:04 |
shamoanjac |
pls ban |
| 22:04 |
agrecascino |
it's popular with /v/irgins |
| 22:04 |
agrecascino |
and people that have way to much time on their hands |
| 22:04 |
Laster |
Maybe somebody does know some sources? |
| 22:05 |
shamoanjac |
I suppose minetest.net is a good way to start :P |
| 22:05 |
Nosrick |
GUYS |
| 22:05 |
Nosrick |
I THINK I GOT IT |
| 22:05 |
agrecascino |
? |
| 22:05 |
agrecascino |
what |
| 22:05 |
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| 22:05 |
Nosrick |
Wait... it might not work on entities. |
| 22:05 |
Nosrick |
I overrode core.nodedef_default.on_punch |
| 22:06 |
agrecascino |
erm |
| 22:06 |
agrecascino |
couldn't you just register a callback |
| 22:06 |
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| 22:06 |
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| 22:06 |
Nosrick |
Can I register my own custom callbacks? |
| 22:06 |
shamoanjac |
of course |
| 22:06 |
Laster |
@shamoanjac are you sure there is some historical information one minetest.net? |
| 22:07 |
agrecascino |
use magic and archive.org |
| 22:07 |
Nosrick |
So, will that allow me to override what happens when someone gets punched? |
| 22:07 |
agrecascino |
yes |
| 22:07 |
shamoanjac |
but only for the entity whose callback you are setting |
| 22:08 |
Nosrick |
Damn it. |
| 22:08 |
shamoanjac |
agrecascino, |
| 22:08 |
shamoanjac |
factionsmod.dbg_lvl3 = function() end |
| 22:09 |
shamoanjac |
¿¿¿ |
| 22:11 |
shamoanjac |
btw, I'm not sure what the "dynamic data" was supposed to be |
| 22:11 |
shamoanjac |
I've restructured the mod to use three tables |
| 22:12 |
Nosrick |
Looks like there's a register_on_punchplayer. |
| 22:12 |
shamoanjac |
a players table (factions.players[player] = "factionname") |
| 22:12 |
shamoanjac |
a chunks table (same as above) |
| 22:12 |
shamoanjac |
and a factions table (factionsmod.factions["faction_name"] = faction) |
| 22:12 |
shamoanjac |
I think these three ought to be saved |
| 22:13 |
shamoanjac |
well, the players function can be reconstructed easily |
| 22:13 |
shamoanjac |
s/function/table |
| 22:13 |
shamoanjac |
and now that I think about it, the chunks table too |
| 22:13 |
shamoanjac |
so I guess it'd be enough with saving factionsmod.factions |
| 22:24 |
shamoanjac |
ok I think I'm done rewriting factionsmod.lua |
| 22:26 |
shamoanjac |
from 940 loc to 320 |
| 22:27 |
Hijiri |
backj |
| 22:28 |
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| 22:29 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, i feel like every time i write something, someone rewrites it better |
| 22:29 |
agrecascino |
to be fair, this was mostly sapier's code though |
| 22:30 |
shamoanjac |
someone could come and rewrite my code even better |
| 22:31 |
shamoanjac |
especially for the banners mod |
| 22:31 |
* shamoanjac |
has an ick at the thought of his init.lua |
| 22:31 |
* agrecascino |
becomes an hero thinking about his game engine |
| 22:33 |
shamoanjac |
lel |
| 22:34 |
agrecascino |
https://youtu.be/VdiAUSbOR1g |
| 22:34 |
agrecascino |
oops |
| 22:35 |
agrecascino |
meant https://youtu.be/VdiAUSbOR1g?t=7m29s |
| 22:36 |
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| 22:36 |
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| 22:38 |
Nosrick |
Looks like I'm just going to have to write my own damn framework. |
| 22:38 |
agrecascino |
Nosrick, why |
| 22:39 |
Nosrick |
So I can have various damage types, as well as damage boosts. |
| 22:40 |
agrecascino |
Nosrick, pretty much anything damage related in minetest is completely fucked |
| 22:40 |
Nosrick |
Yeah, so I've seen. |
| 22:43 |
Hijiri |
Nosrick: a damage type framework exists in armor_monoid |
| 22:43 |
Hijiri |
no damage boosts though |
| 22:43 |
Nosrick |
Ah, I need damage boosts. |
| 22:44 |
Hijiri |
Also you should be aware that if you use register_on_punchplayer and cancel normal damage things, I think that also cancels other puncplayer callbacks |
| 22:44 |
Hijiri |
so you may want to provide your own global callback registrations for the new damage system |
| 22:44 |
Nosrick |
Yeah, it also doesn't work on entities/mobs. |
| 22:44 |
Nosrick |
Only on players, as far as I can tell. |
| 22:44 |
Hijiri |
people would have to write their mobs to use the damage framework |
| 22:44 |
Hijiri |
and you would have to write it in a way that it's easy to hook into |
| 22:45 |
Nosrick |
I'm going to write my own on_punch method, that can be hooked in to. |
| 22:45 |
Hijiri |
method for what? |
| 22:45 |
Nosrick |
To handle damage and such. |
| 22:45 |
Hijiri |
method as in something you call with blah:method()? |
| 22:46 |
Nosrick |
Yeah. |
| 22:46 |
Hijiri |
what is the blah? |
| 22:46 |
Nosrick |
momtest. |
| 22:46 |
Hijiri |
why do you need a method for that, as opposed to just a function? |
| 22:46 |
Nosrick |
Eh, guess I could do that. |
| 22:47 |
Hijiri |
: is just syntax sugar for call using normal indexing, I think it just wastes arguments |
| 22:47 |
Hijiri |
it also makes it harder to do local blah = momtest.blah |
| 22:47 |
Nosrick |
Ah, I see. |
| 22:47 |
Nosrick |
Wait. |
| 22:48 |
Nosrick |
I might be using a global function table. |
| 22:48 |
Hijiri |
Nosrick: You shouldn't just have a global momtest.on_punch that people overwrite, because then people have to do the boilerplate of local old_on_punch = momtest.on_punch, momtest.on_punch = ... |
| 22:48 |
Nosrick |
I think I am. |
| 22:48 |
Nosrick |
Ah, shit. |
| 22:48 |
Hijiri |
you can eliminate the boilerplate by providing something similar to the current on_punchplayer callbacks |
| 22:48 |
Hijiri |
just using your damage system |
| 22:49 |
Hijiri |
it could support both entities and players, though |
| 22:49 |
Nosrick |
So how would I write a callback? |
| 22:49 |
Hijiri |
momtest.on_punch_callbacks = {}, function momtest.register_on_punch(func) ... end |
| 22:50 |
agrecascino |
what should the hostname for my sparc64 machine be |
| 22:50 |
Hijiri |
momtest.on_punch_callbacks = {}, function momtest.register_on_punch(func) table.insert(momtest.on_punch_callbacks, func) end |
| 22:50 |
Hijiri |
and then in your punching function you call all the callbacks like you would have called on_punch |
| 22:50 |
Hijiri |
the main problem I think is getting other people to adopt your framework |
| 22:51 |
Hijiri |
if you don't need that then you can write custom code without a framework |
| 22:51 |
Nosrick |
I'm not too fussed about it, to be honest. |
| 22:51 |
Nosrick |
I mostly want it to work with my mod(s) |
| 22:51 |
Hijiri |
alright |
| 22:51 |
Hijiri |
but for it to work with mobs they will need to be modified to use it |
| 22:51 |
Hijiri |
or you can write your own mobs |
| 22:52 |
Hijiri |
there's no override_entity but you can modify the definition in the minetest.registered_entities table |
| 22:52 |
Nosrick |
Beat me to it :) |
| 22:52 |
Nosrick |
That's exactly what I was going to do. |
| 22:52 |
Hijiri |
ok, good luck |
| 22:53 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, what should the hostname for my sparc64 machine be |
| 22:53 |
Hijiri |
Nosrick: though if you are using multiple mods you will probably want a nice API for yourself anyway |
| 22:53 |
Nosrick |
Yeah, I think I will. |
| 22:53 |
shamoanjac |
uhm |
| 22:53 |
Hijiri |
just not focused on compatibility |
| 22:54 |
shamoanjac |
intels-nightmare |
| 22:55 |
thePalindrome |
Passion maybe? |
| 22:56 |
* thePalindrome |
continues making really bad puns |
| 22:56 |
Calinou |
fluttershy |
| 22:57 |
Calinou |
because every decent developer gives pony names to their machines, that's known |
| 22:57 |
Nosrick |
Decent pone |
| 22:57 |
Nosrick |
At least not worst pone |
| 22:57 |
agrecascino |
where <username> is an │ |
| 22:57 |
agrecascino |
│ username, like 'imurdock' or 'rms' |
| 22:57 |
agrecascino |
rip imurdock |
| 22:57 |
thePalindrome |
Hey |
| 22:57 |
thePalindrome |
I resent that statement |
| 22:58 |
thePalindrome |
I'd have to count again, but I think I have some 7 pony machines |
| 22:58 |
Calinou |
:] |
| 22:58 |
thePalindrome |
Okay 8 |
| 22:58 |
* thePalindrome |
can count |
| 22:58 |
Calinou |
unlike PHP developers! |
| 22:58 |
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| 22:59 |
thePalindrome |
No wait 10 |
| 22:59 |
* thePalindrome |
is proud as he digs a deeper hole |
| 22:59 |
Calinou |
Minetest runs so much smoother on Linux than on Windows :| |
| 22:59 |
Calinou |
with the same hardware |
| 23:00 |
shamoanjac |
agrecascino, what's the "leave" function supposed to do? |
| 23:00 |
shamoanjac |
I see it can take several arguments |
| 23:00 |
agrecascino |
? |
| 23:00 |
Fixer_ |
Calinou: better threading? videocard drivers? |
| 23:00 |
agrecascino |
give me the entire definition? |
| 23:00 |
Calinou |
Fixer_: drivers are the same (NVIDIA proprietary) |
| 23:00 |
shamoanjac |
apparently I can do |
| 23:00 |
thePalindrome |
Calinou: Well duh, Windows does everything worse |
| 23:00 |
Nosrick |
Calinou: where do I know you from? |
| 23:00 |
Calinou |
other games on Windows give me same performance |
| 23:00 |
shamoanjac |
/functionsmod leave param1 param2 |
| 23:00 |
thePalindrome |
I can run Skyrim better on linux than windows |
| 23:00 |
Calinou |
Nosrick: no idea |
| 23:01 |
shamoanjac |
oh I see |
| 23:01 |
shamoanjac |
it can be used to kick |
| 23:01 |
agrecascino |
it makes a user leave a faction |
| 23:01 |
Fixer_ |
Calinou: do you have drawtime jitter in singleplayer when map is generated? |
| 23:01 |
shamoanjac |
I'll split it into "leave" and "kick" |
| 23:02 |
Calinou |
Fixer_: yes |
| 23:02 |
Calinou |
but I also have stuttering on multiplayer |
| 23:02 |
Fixer_ |
i mean stuttering, yes |
| 23:02 |
Fixer_ |
it is both in sp and mp |
| 23:02 |
Fixer_ |
but more in sp |
| 23:03 |
Nosrick |
Calinou: Have I seen you kicking around the Godot forums/issue tracker? |
| 23:04 |
Calinou |
oh, yes |
| 23:04 |
Calinou |
I'm a Godot contributor |
| 23:04 |
Calinou |
and I maintain Godot builds |
| 23:04 |
Nosrick |
Ah-ha! |
| 23:05 |
Nosrick |
That's where I know you from. |
| 23:21 |
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| 23:21 |
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| 23:23 |
Nosrick |
Okay, so I'm stepping through the table of callbacks. Do I just go local func = tableValue, then do func(parameters)? |
| 23:24 |
agrecascino |
i find it sort of sad that debian has less support for sparc64 than hppa |
| 23:26 |
Hijiri |
Nosrick: what does the surrounding code look like? |
| 23:26 |
Hijiri |
what is tableValue? |
| 23:29 |
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| 23:36 |
shamoanjac |
are there table slices in Lua? |
| 23:42 |
Hijiri |
no |
| 23:43 |
Hijiri |
well, no special syntax for them |
| 23:43 |
Hijiri |
you could write a function that did slices hypothetically |
| 23:43 |
shamoanjac |
:( |
| 23:43 |
shamoanjac |
sometimes this language feel barebones when you come from Python as a scripting language |
| 23:44 |
shamoanjac |
at least it's not Haskell |
| 23:44 |
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| 23:54 |
agrecascino |
shamoanjac, puuuuuuureeeeeeee |
| 23:59 |
shamoanjac |
wat |
| 23:59 |
agrecascino |
haskell is pure |
