| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:01 |
Jordach |
ayy lmao |
| 00:01 |
Jordach |
it's the 25th |
| 00:04 |
kaadmy |
24th for me ;) |
| 00:07 |
|
Pulec joined #minetest |
| 00:13 |
lemon |
same here |
| 00:32 |
lemon |
OldCoder, this is what I made so far https://neboard.me/media/images/145099634124.png |
| 00:33 |
OldCoder |
Reviewing |
| 00:33 |
lemon |
I think I also should add formatting options. For instance, there could be a function to arrange data in the table or a graph. |
| 00:33 |
OldCoder |
Advice: One step at a time |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
It is satisfying |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
to see things work |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
Helps you to continue |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
Parameterize what the other guy did |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
So the text can be moved about |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
Then worry about formatting |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
Good first steps |
| 00:34 |
OldCoder |
Merry xmas to u 2 |
| 00:34 |
lemon |
:D |
| 00:36 |
lemon |
So you think there should be a way to move each widget around the screen freely? |
| 00:36 |
lemon |
I thought I would just make one bar where everything will be added. |
| 00:36 |
lemon |
So developers wouldn't need to worry about placing text. |
| 00:38 |
OldCoder |
Reviewing |
| 00:38 |
OldCoder |
Explain |
| 00:38 |
OldCoder |
lemon |
| 00:38 |
OldCoder |
Do you mean move programmatically? |
| 00:39 |
lemon |
Well, there are no other way to move it except programmatically. |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
Explain widget |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
Do you mean question is |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
Multiple widgets or single fixed location one? |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
People will want choice |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
Of where text goes |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
And may want multiple blocks |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
Each for a different purpose |
| 00:40 |
OldCoder |
But you can start |
| 00:41 |
Emperor_Genshin |
Merry Chrismas OldCoder |
| 00:41 |
OldCoder |
With just one block at a caller-specified location |
| 00:41 |
OldCoder |
Emperor_Genshin, hello t y and u 2 |
| 00:43 |
lemon |
https://github.com/slemonide/hud_monitor/blob/master/init.lua |
| 00:45 |
OldCoder |
R |
| 00:45 |
OldCoder |
Rename unless connected to HUD ? |
| 00:45 |
OldCoder |
Add comments please |
| 00:45 |
OldCoder |
Comments are what completes code |
| 00:46 |
OldCoder |
And yes this is useful |
| 00:46 |
OldCoder |
Add comments, test, release, profit |
| 00:46 |
OldCoder |
1-2-3-4 |
| 00:47 |
lemon |
OldCoder, it is related to HUD because information is displayed on HUD |
| 00:47 |
OldCoder |
So this is an extension of sorts to the HUD mod? |
| 00:48 |
OldCoder |
Not independent? |
| 00:48 |
lemon |
HUD is hardcoded into minetest. |
| 00:48 |
OldCoder |
Ah |
| 00:48 |
OldCoder |
All right |
| 00:48 |
OldCoder |
Add comments, test, release, profit |
| 00:48 |
OldCoder |
1-2-3-4 |
| 00:48 |
OldCoder |
5 = fame |
| 00:49 |
lemon |
:3 |
| 00:55 |
Blekpug |
I get hurt when I access my bones. I do not understand. |
| 00:56 |
kaadmy |
hmm, that would sound weird had you said it in real life ;) |
| 00:58 |
kaadmy |
does it say anything in chat when you take bones? |
| 01:02 |
|
nanovad joined #minetest |
| 01:28 |
lemon |
OldCoder, https://github.com/slemonide/hud_monitor |
| 01:28 |
OldCoder |
R |
| 01:29 |
OldCoder |
HUD monotor api: spell that monitor |
| 01:29 |
OldCoder |
Reviewing further |
| 01:29 |
OldCoder |
Change widged to widget |
| 01:30 |
OldCoder |
Needs more comments. But if it works it is ready for release. |
| 01:30 |
OldCoder |
Next step, make a thinner screenshot (less than 900 pixels wide) |
| 01:30 |
OldCoder |
and announce your creation in the forums |
| 01:30 |
OldCoder |
Then wait for the movie offers to come in |
| 01:30 |
OldCoder |
|
| 01:31 |
OldCoder |
lemon, ^ |
| 01:31 |
lemon |
What kind of comments? |
| 01:32 |
OldCoder |
This is general and for the future. To explain: |
| 01:32 |
OldCoder |
At the highest level, you have package comments or documentation |
| 01:32 |
OldCoder |
That explain what a package does |
| 01:32 |
OldCoder |
Then you have module comments |
| 01:32 |
OldCoder |
At the top of a file |
| 01:32 |
OldCoder |
Which explain the purpose and structure (sometimes) of a file |
| 01:33 |
OldCoder |
Then you have procedure comments. These go before each function or subroutine |
| 01:33 |
OldCoder |
To explain what the function or subroutine does |
| 01:33 |
OldCoder |
Then you have block comments |
| 01:33 |
OldCoder |
These go before blocks or sections of code |
| 01:33 |
OldCoder |
Then sometimes you have inline comments about individual lines |
| 01:34 |
OldCoder |
Lazy coders skip ALL of this |
| 01:34 |
OldCoder |
Sensible coders do at least some of this |
| 01:34 |
OldCoder |
In my view, masters do all of it. Aim for the middle if you like. |
| 01:34 |
OldCoder |
Done. |
| 01:34 |
OldCoder |
|
| 01:35 |
Hirato |
I'm bad at commenting >_> |
| 01:35 |
OldCoder |
Practice makes perfect |
| 01:35 |
OldCoder |
You just did after all |
| 01:35 |
Hirato |
the only comments I make are when I feel that I've written something that may not be intuitively obvious to the next person reading it |
| 01:35 |
OldCoder |
/* I'm bad at commenting */ |
| 01:35 |
OldCoder |
Right |
| 01:35 |
OldCoder |
And coders say |
| 01:35 |
Blekpug |
kaadmy: I didn't notice anything in chat when I tried to take the bones. I destroyed the world. have not died since then. |
| 01:36 |
OldCoder |
<coders> But I use good variable names! |
| 01:36 |
OldCoder |
Honestly, good variable names are not enough |
| 01:36 |
OldCoder |
But I am simply offering my view |
| 01:36 |
OldCoder |
It is not a church pew |
| 01:36 |
Hirato |
if I'm writing complex bitshift operators, the ratio of lines of code to lines of comments is about 1:3 |
| 01:36 |
OldCoder |
Between me and you |
| 01:36 |
OldCoder |
Hi |
| 01:36 |
OldCoder |
Yes good |
| 01:36 |
OldCoder |
The fact is |
| 01:36 |
OldCoder |
The code and the comments should be viewed as one |
| 01:36 |
OldCoder |
If you comment as you go |
| 01:36 |
Hirato |
but when I'm writing super obvious routines and structures, which is most of the time, it's about 100 : 1 |
| 01:37 |
OldCoder |
There are fewer bugs |
| 01:37 |
OldCoder |
Right |
| 01:37 |
OldCoder |
and your code |
| 01:37 |
OldCoder |
is dead, in a sense |
| 01:37 |
OldCoder |
Note the layers |
| 01:37 |
OldCoder |
of comments that I referred to |
| 01:37 |
OldCoder |
Only code that is truly structured is alive |
| 01:37 |
OldCoder |
And only code that is truly commented |
| 01:37 |
OldCoder |
is structured |
| 01:37 |
OldCoder |
|
| 01:37 |
OldCoder |
Comments are not castor oil |
| 01:38 |
OldCoder |
Some sort of unpleasant medicine |
| 01:38 |
OldCoder |
That coders are forced to take |
| 01:38 |
OldCoder |
For code to truly live |
| 01:38 |
OldCoder |
Comments are part of the process |
| 01:38 |
OldCoder |
And they eliminate bugs |
| 01:38 |
OldCoder |
|
| 01:38 |
Hirato |
as far as I'm concerned, if my code ins't intent and purpose isn't intuitively readable and obvious, then I failed at my job |
| 01:38 |
OldCoder |
Hm |
| 01:39 |
OldCoder |
But... |
| 01:39 |
Hirato |
the only things I really comment are weird quirks that might trip up the next person looking at it |
| 01:39 |
OldCoder |
Hirato, pleased to meet you. This might be so on a line by line basis |
| 01:39 |
OldCoder |
But how the heck |
| 01:39 |
OldCoder |
Do you expect anybody to guess at the module level? |
| 01:39 |
OldCoder |
Or even in many cases at the procedure level |
| 01:39 |
OldCoder |
Answer that? |
| 01:39 |
OldCoder |
~bacon:@$($) goop(); |
| 01:40 |
OldCoder |
^ typical line of C++ code |
| 01:40 |
Hirato |
I am kind of lacking context :P |
| 01:40 |
OldCoder |
Worthless rubbish |
| 01:40 |
OldCoder |
Context is right above |
| 01:40 |
OldCoder |
What you said |
| 01:40 |
OldCoder |
may hold true |
| 01:40 |
OldCoder |
at the line by line level |
| 01:40 |
OldCoder |
But without comments at all the other levels |
| 01:40 |
OldCoder |
Once you are gone |
| 01:40 |
OldCoder |
Your code is legacy that must be reverse engineered |
| 01:40 |
* OldCoder |
has spent much of a 40 year career doing this |
| 01:40 |
OldCoder |
|
| 01:40 |
Hirato |
what it does should be obvius by its name, parameters and return type |
| 01:41 |
OldCoder |
For Pythonic tiny fragments yes |
| 01:41 |
OldCoder |
How many real world legacy procedures are like that? |
| 01:41 |
OldCoder |
Typical example: |
| 01:41 |
OldCoder |
|
| 01:41 |
OldCoder |
init() |
| 01:41 |
OldCoder |
Oh boy |
| 01:41 |
OldCoder |
It initializes |
| 01:41 |
OldCoder |
Initializes WHAT ? |
| 01:41 |
OldCoder |
And where are the APIs |
| 01:41 |
OldCoder |
for entry points into the system |
| 01:41 |
Hirato |
which gets a lot harder with any dynamically typed language |
| 01:41 |
OldCoder |
to be guessed at? |
| 01:41 |
OldCoder |
Same principles have always been there |
| 01:42 |
* OldCoder |
started with C and FORTRAN |
| 01:42 |
OldCoder |
Legacy code is dead code |
| 01:42 |
OldCoder |
Variable names, feh |
| 01:42 |
OldCoder |
Makes no difference |
| 01:42 |
OldCoder |
Without comments |
| 01:42 |
OldCoder |
A codebase is a cemetery |
| 01:42 |
OldCoder |
|
| 01:43 |
* OldCoder |
has heard the "good variable names" thing for years and laughs |
| 01:43 |
OldCoder |
No offense intended |
| 01:43 |
nanovad |
OldCoder: Good variable names! :) |
| 01:43 |
OldCoder |
Yes |
| 01:43 |
OldCoder |
int initialized = FALSE; |
| 01:43 |
nanovad |
Honestly, if the code is written well enough, you shouldn't have to explain it. |
| 01:43 |
OldCoder |
Ooh yes |
| 01:43 |
OldCoder |
All set now! |
| 01:43 |
nanovad |
I mean, does the author annotate everything he writes? |
| 01:43 |
OldCoder |
Wrong. See above. It applies to line by line... |
| 01:43 |
OldCoder |
Ideally, the language should require this. |
| 01:43 |
OldCoder |
Without this... |
| 01:43 |
OldCoder |
Where do you get |
| 01:44 |
OldCoder |
the other levels? Tell me, how many... |
| 01:44 |
OldCoder |
legacy systems have you worked on? State the number. |
| 01:44 |
nanovad |
Legacy? Honestly, I'm too young to work on anything professionally. |
| 01:44 |
Hirato |
https://github.com/Hirato/lamiae/tree/master/src/rpggame this code is about 3% comments, and 19% blank lines, this is the kind of stuff I write |
| 01:44 |
OldCoder |
Ah. I mean no patronize nanovad but you will learn. Hirato Hi let me review. |
| 01:45 |
nanovad |
I'm sure I will. I don't assume everything I say is right, after all, it's all opinion. :P |
| 01:45 |
OldCoder |
Can I get a top-level link Hirato ? |
| 01:45 |
OldCoder |
This is showing me diffs |
| 01:46 |
Hirato |
I linked you there becuase most of the rest is standard engine stuff I inherited |
| 01:46 |
OldCoder |
I see your repos |
| 01:46 |
Hirato |
and why are you seeing diffs |
| 01:46 |
OldCoder |
You linked to a commit |
| 01:46 |
OldCoder |
Do you have a full source module? |
| 01:46 |
Hirato |
no, I linked you to a specific subfolder |
| 01:46 |
OldCoder |
It went to a diff |
| 01:46 |
OldCoder |
Sorry |
| 01:46 |
Hirato |
if it went to a diff, you clicked something |
| 01:46 |
OldCoder |
- conoutf(CON_ERROR, "failed to load sample: media/sound/%s%s", dir, name); |
| 01:46 |
OldCoder |
+ conoutf(CON_ERROR, "failed to load sample: media/sounds/%s%s", dir, name); |
| 01:47 |
OldCoder |
Not much to say about that |
| 01:47 |
OldCoder |
Can you provide a favorite full source module? |
| 01:47 |
Hirato |
:| |
| 01:47 |
OldCoder |
Pick one you like |
| 01:47 |
OldCoder |
No need for :| |
| 01:47 |
OldCoder |
Share a particular source file |
| 01:47 |
Hirato |
the :| is because I linked you to a folder of about 20 files |
| 01:47 |
Hirato |
not to a specific commit |
| 01:47 |
OldCoder |
Share a particular source file |
| 01:48 |
OldCoder |
While you are thinking |
| 01:48 |
OldCoder |
Here is one of mine |
| 01:48 |
OldCoder |
http://oldcoder.org/general/beworld/browse-beworld.html |
| 01:48 |
OldCoder |
It's about 100 pages of code not counting data |
| 01:48 |
OldCoder |
In a language I'd never really done before |
| 01:48 |
OldCoder |
It is bug-free as far as I know |
| 01:48 |
OldCoder |
Match that |
| 01:48 |
OldCoder |
|
| 01:48 |
OldCoder |
The comments make the difference |
| 01:49 |
OldCoder |
Again... the comments are not castor oil. They are for *you* as well as for others. |
| 01:49 |
OldCoder |
They are part of the process. |
| 01:49 |
OldCoder |
Tell you what, Google for recursive math parser |
| 01:49 |
OldCoder |
Those three words |
| 01:50 |
OldCoder |
Do you see perlcoder.net in the top 5 hits or so? |
| 01:50 |
OldCoder |
I suppose you can guess who perlcoder.net is |
| 01:50 |
OldCoder |
Browse that code |
| 01:50 |
OldCoder |
And you'll understand why it's in the top 5 hits above Wikipedia |
| 01:50 |
OldCoder |
Tired and no intent to be condescending |
| 01:51 |
OldCoder |
Simply telling you the way it is |
| 01:51 |
OldCoder |
Uncommented code is incomplete code and, in the end, it is dead code |
| 01:51 |
OldCoder |
R.I.P. |
| 01:51 |
OldCoder |
Especially C++ BTW. |
| 01:52 |
OldCoder |
http://www.perlcoder.net/general/parsemath/parsemath-listing.html |
| 01:53 |
OldCoder |
^ Top 5 hits. Commented. Not a coincidence. |
| 01:53 |
OldCoder |
|
| 01:56 |
Hirato |
I don't really understand it |
| 01:57 |
OldCoder |
One of the two programs? If not, this underscores the point. |
| 01:57 |
OldCoder |
Code is art. A personal expression. |
| 01:58 |
Hirato |
i'm just going to assume it's because I don't know shit about perl |
| 01:58 |
OldCoder |
In a context where understanding and reproducibility matter. |
| 01:58 |
OldCoder |
No... |
| 01:58 |
OldCoder |
You can do all languages Hirato |
| 01:58 |
OldCoder |
But I'll hold off on that tangent |
| 01:58 |
OldCoder |
You may not understand the code |
| 01:58 |
OldCoder |
But the comments spell out the purpose |
| 01:59 |
OldCoder |
Without one, the expression that you don't follow, you still have the other |
| 01:59 |
OldCoder |
The purpose and the meaning |
| 01:59 |
OldCoder |
You could, therefore, make decisions |
| 01:59 |
OldCoder |
Related to this code despite "don't really understand it" |
| 01:59 |
OldCoder |
This is the way it's supposed to be |
| 01:59 |
OldCoder |
Code is not supposed to be a Van Gogh painting |
| 01:59 |
OldCoder |
|
| 02:00 |
OldCoder |
The Tcl program I linked above that |
| 02:00 |
OldCoder |
You'd have zero chance of understanding parts without the comments |
| 02:00 |
OldCoder |
Despite the purity of the concept |
| 02:00 |
OldCoder |
And the high quality of the code |
| 02:00 |
OldCoder |
The comments are the bridge, the way in |
| 02:00 |
OldCoder |
The mapping of the concepts |
| 02:00 |
OldCoder |
They are not disposable |
| 02:00 |
OldCoder |
|
| 02:01 |
OldCoder |
That code writes itself, Hirato. Zero chance of following without comments. |
| 02:01 |
* OldCoder |
hums the song "A Song That Sings Itself". |
| 02:01 |
OldCoder |
|
| 02:02 |
Hirato |
still, it's a lot harder to read unfamiliar languages than familiar ones |
| 02:02 |
OldCoder |
This is a CLI calculator program that takes a single arithmetic ex- |
| 02:02 |
OldCoder |
pression as an argument, evaluates it, and prints the result to stand- |
| 02:02 |
OldCoder |
ard output. |
| 02:02 |
OldCoder |
Yes, this is true |
| 02:02 |
Hirato |
I can tell that much |
| 02:02 |
OldCoder |
But you could do Perl in a day |
| 02:02 |
Hirato |
I can also see it has some concept of precedence, a few named operators, and uses less |
| 02:02 |
OldCoder |
Right. The particular program was not really the point. |
| 02:02 |
OldCoder |
The point was that the comments are your way in. |
| 02:02 |
OldCoder |
They can't teach you Perl directly |
| 02:03 |
Hirato |
and I understand how to call it, but only because there was an example in a comment |
| 02:03 |
OldCoder |
Yes. The most rudimentary knowledge of the language and with the comments you'd be good to go. |
| 02:03 |
OldCoder |
Look, let's admit it |
| 02:03 |
OldCoder |
Unless coders are engaged in a startup |
| 02:03 |
OldCoder |
Something personal |
| 02:03 |
OldCoder |
They often don't give a sh*t about what happens after they leave |
| 02:04 |
OldCoder |
And they consider comments to be a ridiculous burden |
| 02:04 |
OldCoder |
Not based on any principles or logic |
| 02:04 |
|
DI3HARD139 joined #minetest |
| 02:04 |
OldCoder |
But because they can get away with leaving sh*t behind |
| 02:04 |
OldCoder |
Nobody is really going to hunt them down for it |
| 02:04 |
OldCoder |
So you get stuff like this |
| 02:04 |
OldCoder |
At one firm |
| 02:04 |
OldCoder |
The CEO had a vague recollection |
| 02:05 |
OldCoder |
That somebody had added some Saleforce functionality to the main system |
| 02:05 |
OldCoder |
Surely somebody could extend that |
| 02:05 |
OldCoder |
And he could claim that the system was Salesforce * compatible |
| 02:05 |
OldCoder |
|
| 02:05 |
OldCoder |
There were rumors |
| 02:05 |
OldCoder |
that the Salesforce functionality had actually existed |
| 02:05 |
OldCoder |
Names floated about |
| 02:06 |
OldCoder |
Nobody actually knew for sure where it was |
| 02:06 |
OldCoder |
Or what language had been used |
| 02:06 |
OldCoder |
Or even what the functionality had been |
| 02:06 |
OldCoder |
In the end it turned out |
| 02:06 |
OldCoder |
That one coder whose job was safe |
| 02:06 |
OldCoder |
Because only she knew the codebase |
| 02:07 |
|
JohnnyComeL8ly joined #minetest |
| 02:07 |
OldCoder |
Had, years before, done some sort of online widget in JS on some hosted site |
| 02:07 |
OldCoder |
Never written anything down |
| 02:07 |
OldCoder |
Forgotten the name of the site |
| 02:07 |
OldCoder |
And had saved not a scrap of the code |
| 02:07 |
OldCoder |
This is actually... |
| 02:07 |
OldCoder |
typical |
| 02:07 |
OldCoder |
The usual way |
| 02:07 |
OldCoder |
|
| 02:07 |
Hirato |
I fail to see how "commenting" would avert any of this |
| 02:07 |
OldCoder |
Did not finish |
| 02:08 |
OldCoder |
The point is that it hardly makes sense to complain about comments. The arguments against them are largely bullsh*t put forth by lazy coders... |
| 02:08 |
OldCoder |
who left to their own devices |
| 02:08 |
OldCoder |
document nothing, save nothing, and move on |
| 02:08 |
OldCoder |
Leaving legacy ruins in their wake |
| 02:08 |
OldCoder |
|
| 02:09 |
OldCoder |
Comments are the bridge into the code for those who come after |
| 02:09 |
OldCoder |
And the means to prevent bugs |
| 02:09 |
OldCoder |
For those who create |
| 02:09 |
OldCoder |
And as I've suggested just above |
| 02:09 |
OldCoder |
They're only one part of the picture |
| 02:09 |
OldCoder |
|
| 02:09 |
OldCoder |
At any rate |
| 02:09 |
OldCoder |
You have two sample modules of mine |
| 02:09 |
OldCoder |
The Tcl one makes one of the points better |
| 02:09 |
OldCoder |
The code is perfect, in its way |
| 02:09 |
OldCoder |
So what? Without comments |
| 02:10 |
Hirato |
what you've told me speaks of poor discipline and policies |
| 02:10 |
OldCoder |
You'd have no way in. You'd be lost. |
| 02:10 |
OldCoder |
Indeed. And comments are part of this. |
| 02:10 |
OldCoder |
Poor or not, Hirato, it is usual |
| 02:10 |
OldCoder |
|
| 02:10 |
OldCoder |
Small and large firms. Typical, not abnormal. |
| 02:11 |
Hirato |
and you got a whole project of mine |
| 02:11 |
OldCoder |
I should refrain from telling more stories. I've got a good one though... |
| 02:11 |
OldCoder |
I still have not seen Hirato |
| 02:11 |
OldCoder |
a specific module |
| 02:11 |
Hirato |
you have, you jsut someone opened up the last commit |
| 02:11 |
OldCoder |
That you'd like to suggest I look at |
| 02:11 |
Hirato |
**somehow |
| 02:11 |
OldCoder |
Will you pick one module |
| 02:11 |
OldCoder |
for review? |
| 02:11 |
OldCoder |
Not a folder, but one module to start? |
| 02:11 |
Hirato |
that folder is all interconnected |
| 02:12 |
OldCoder |
Hirato, I am physically tired and have talked about this when I ought not to. Will you share a favorite module that illustrates your style? |
| 02:12 |
OldCoder |
Or approach; whatever you wish to call it. |
| 02:12 |
|
nolsen joined #minetest |
| 02:19 |
Hirato |
I can't really think of a favourite file |
| 02:20 |
OldCoder |
Any typical file that is representative? |
| 02:20 |
OldCoder |
And entirely your own code? |
| 02:20 |
Hirato |
https://github.com/Hirato/lamiae/blob/master/src/rpggame/rpggame.h may as well go with the main header file I guess |
| 02:21 |
OldCoder |
R |
| 02:21 |
Hirato |
that rpggame folder is 100% my code :p |
| 02:21 |
Hirato |
hence I linked to it |
| 02:21 |
OldCoder |
O.K. thanks. You realize there's essentially zero comments in this module. You feel that's fine. Not much to discuss. |
| 02:21 |
kaadmy |
OldCoder: seems kinda like a one-sided conversation :) |
| 02:21 |
Hirato |
yeah, I know |
| 02:22 |
OldCoder |
kaadmy, in what sense? I've made points and waited for responses. |
| 02:22 |
OldCoder |
Hirato, the people who get to judge that code |
| 02:22 |
OldCoder |
are not you |
| 02:22 |
Hirato |
there's 400 lines or so lines shared between all those files |
| 02:22 |
OldCoder |
You understand that as well, right? |
| 02:22 |
OldCoder |
What matters, where it counts, is what happens when others try to come in later |
| 02:22 |
kaadmy |
chat logs from ~20 min ago ;-) |
| 02:23 |
OldCoder |
kaadmy, again, your point? I made comments, ironically enough, and waited for responses. |
| 02:23 |
OldCoder |
The phrase "one-sided" would seem to be deprecation without concrete meaning. |
| 02:24 |
Hirato |
I do think it's the file with the most comments... |
| 02:26 |
OldCoder |
Hirato, that is a relative statement. Not relevant to what I said a minute ago, gently. |
| 02:26 |
OldCoder |
You'll note I've tried to speak gently |
| 02:26 |
OldCoder |
kaadmy, FYI ^ |
| 02:26 |
OldCoder |
<OldCoder> Hirato, the people who get to judge that code |
| 02:26 |
OldCoder |
<OldCoder> are not you |
| 02:27 |
OldCoder |
<OldCoder> You understand that as well, right? |
| 02:27 |
OldCoder |
<OldCoder> What matters, where it counts, is what happens when others try to come in later |
| 02:27 |
OldCoder |
^ The points |
| 02:27 |
OldCoder |
|
| 02:27 |
OldCoder |
This is a creation. A work of art though as I said Van Gogh is not the point. |
| 02:28 |
OldCoder |
What matters |
| 02:28 |
OldCoder |
is that part of it is still inside a head |
| 02:28 |
OldCoder |
Your head |
| 02:28 |
OldCoder |
It needs to come out |
| 02:28 |
OldCoder |
|
| 02:28 |
OldCoder |
Create code for the ages, though that is difficult with C++ |
| 02:28 |
Hirato |
you'll notice I basically treat it like C with some bells and whistles |
| 02:28 |
* OldCoder |
has noticed that C++ code tends to break with the turning of the seasons |
| 02:29 |
OldCoder |
Right, that does help |
| 02:29 |
* OldCoder |
usual reaction to C++ is |
| 02:29 |
OldCoder |
O_O |
| 02:29 |
* OldCoder |
loves all languages dearly |
| 02:29 |
OldCoder |
Except this one |
| 02:29 |
Hirato |
you should see what the compilers do, geez |
| 02:29 |
OldCoder |
And maybe WhiteSpace <- google that |
| 02:29 |
OldCoder |
Oh yes |
| 02:29 |
Hirato |
80+ character monstrosity, optimised to 1 instruction |
| 02:30 |
OldCoder |
Oh lord yes |
| 02:30 |
OldCoder |
and the standard changes |
| 02:30 |
OldCoder |
and it is all lost |
| 02:30 |
* OldCoder |
has just finished trying to recompile his entire distro |
| 02:30 |
Hirato |
you'll also notice I almost completely avoided a lot of C++ features, like templates |
| 02:31 |
OldCoder |
Yes to this as well |
| 02:31 |
OldCoder |
Heh |
| 02:31 |
OldCoder |
Close to straight C |
| 02:31 |
OldCoder |
Which is good |
| 02:31 |
OldCoder |
Have not said anything negative about the code at all |
| 02:31 |
OldCoder |
Please note |
| 02:31 |
OldCoder |
Only that those who will judge it are those who come after |
| 02:32 |
OldCoder |
And need to work on it |
| 02:32 |
OldCoder |
It is pretty simple |
| 02:32 |
OldCoder |
Add a few comments and it will be clear as glass |
| 02:32 |
Hirato |
and we in the cube world don't care for the standard template library as well, we wrote our own before C++ really shipped them and just kept using them |
| 02:32 |
OldCoder |
In fact |
| 02:32 |
OldCoder |
This code is interesting |
| 02:32 |
Hirato |
I'm glad you're intrigued |
| 02:32 |
OldCoder |
Couldn't you write your own system to generate it? |
| 02:32 |
OldCoder |
Everything in this file |
| 02:33 |
OldCoder |
Could have come from a standard mechanism |
| 02:33 |
OldCoder |
A base library and some config files |
| 02:33 |
OldCoder |
Right? |
| 02:33 |
Hirato |
I guess |
| 02:33 |
OldCoder |
Sorry, just thinking |
| 02:34 |
OldCoder |
Anyway the code is fine for what it is. I have said what I should. |
| 02:34 |
OldCoder |
if you wish the code to live on |
| 02:34 |
OldCoder |
If this is a labor of love |
| 02:34 |
|
JohnnyComeL8ly joined #minetest |
| 02:34 |
OldCoder |
Add what is needed; the comments. |
| 02:34 |
OldCoder |
|
| 02:34 |
|
Taoki joined #minetest |
| 02:34 |
Hirato |
I did start this when i knew almost nothing :P |
| 02:36 |
OldCoder |
Then you are coming along. You know nothing I've said has been intended to be discouraging. |
| 02:36 |
OldCoder |
To the contrary |
| 02:36 |
OldCoder |
You mentioned not knowing Perl |
| 02:36 |
OldCoder |
Get into the habit of thinking comments and you'll find that different languages start to feel like |
| 02:36 |
OldCoder |
Different expressions of the same thing |
| 02:37 |
Hirato |
I know, it's understanding the expressions |
| 02:37 |
OldCoder |
This is a positive point, not a straightjacket |
| 02:37 |
OldCoder |
Yes |
| 02:37 |
OldCoder |
You can focus on one language if you wish, but no real need to do so |
| 02:37 |
OldCoder |
Except for the language or framework that pays the rent |
| 02:37 |
OldCoder |
These days, everybody is supposed to have a specialty |
| 02:37 |
Hirato |
at the moment that's VB.NET *shudder* |
| 02:37 |
OldCoder |
ogod :P |
| 02:38 |
* OldCoder |
does Windows only under duress |
| 02:38 |
Hirato |
you define an array of size 8, guess what the bounds are in VB |
| 02:38 |
* OldCoder |
does not know |
| 02:38 |
OldCoder |
? |
| 02:38 |
Hirato |
I'll give you 2 guesses :3 |
| 02:39 |
OldCoder |
But but |
| 02:39 |
OldCoder |
This requires logic |
| 02:39 |
OldCoder |
and O_O |
| 02:39 |
OldCoder |
MS logic? |
| 02:39 |
OldCoder |
Hm |
| 02:39 |
Hirato |
4,4It's 0-8 inclusive |
| 02:39 |
OldCoder |
Define bounds for me |
| 02:39 |
OldCoder |
If that is OK to ask |
| 02:40 |
Hirato |
lower bound, the index for the first element, upper bound, index of the final element |
| 02:40 |
OldCoder |
Right |
| 02:40 |
* OldCoder |
counts on fingers and toes |
| 02:40 |
OldCoder |
So it isn't 0..7 or 1..8 ? |
| 02:41 |
Hirato |
indeed |
| 02:41 |
Hirato |
it's 0 to 8, inclusive |
| 02:41 |
OldCoder |
Um |
| 02:41 |
OldCoder |
What do they map to? |
| 02:41 |
Hirato |
so 9 elements for a size 8 array |
| 02:41 |
OldCoder |
What... |
| 02:41 |
OldCoder |
You know the question |
| 02:41 |
OldCoder |
What is the extra element? |
| 02:42 |
Hirato |
if you define an array as Dim myArray as Integer(8), the bounds are 0 to 8, inclusive |
| 02:42 |
OldCoder |
Right |
| 02:42 |
OldCoder |
But if you use all the indices |
| 02:42 |
OldCoder |
indexes |
| 02:42 |
OldCoder |
What do you get? |
| 02:42 |
OldCoder |
Are they all usable? |
| 02:42 |
Hirato |
yup, all usable |
| 02:42 |
OldCoder |
Um |
| 02:42 |
OldCoder |
Oooo.... kay |
| 02:42 |
Hirato |
I think they get set to 'Nothing' which gets converted to 0 for numbers |
| 02:43 |
OldCoder |
You really ought to see if there is UNIX-Linux work |
| 02:43 |
Hirato |
(that's their word for Null) |
| 02:43 |
OldCoder |
But I suppose MS will pay the bills |
| 02:43 |
Hirato |
in Australia? bloody likely, haha |
| 02:43 |
OldCoder |
You are down-under? Cornernote is there |
| 02:43 |
OldCoder |
He does PHP webdev |
| 02:43 |
OldCoder |
Why are you doing MS if it is not popular and high paid? |
| 02:44 |
Hirato |
if I learned anything at uni, I'd pick VB over PHP every day |
| 02:44 |
OldCoder |
Go on |
| 02:44 |
OldCoder |
So you find positives in the language? |
| 02:45 |
Hirato |
It's more than PHP was really bad |
| 02:45 |
Hirato |
then people link me to bugs like this https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=61095 |
| 02:46 |
OldCoder |
R |
| 02:47 |
Hirato |
it was a long time ago, I don't really remember it |
| 02:47 |
OldCoder |
Every language is worthwhile except C++ |
| 02:47 |
OldCoder |
PHP has its place |
| 02:47 |
OldCoder |
That place is not |
| 02:47 |
OldCoder |
really in the construction of large mission criticial systems |
| 02:47 |
OldCoder |
:-) |
| 02:47 |
Hirato |
it was a crappy web dev unit |
| 02:47 |
OldCoder |
Go on |
| 02:48 |
OldCoder |
The cours |
| 02:48 |
OldCoder |
The course * |
| 02:48 |
OldCoder |
was PHP and not well done? |
| 02:48 |
Hirato |
nah, they covered both ASP.NET (with VB) and PHP |
| 02:48 |
OldCoder |
Oi |
| 02:48 |
OldCoder |
That is quite a combination |
| 02:48 |
OldCoder |
"Two great tastes that taste great together" ? |
| 02:48 |
Hirato |
you chad to use both for the first assignment, the second one you could pick your favourite |
| 02:49 |
OldCoder |
Which did you do |
| 02:49 |
Hirato |
for the second? Asp.NET with C# |
| 02:49 |
OldCoder |
Sealing your destiny :P |
| 02:49 |
OldCoder |
O.K. so you can make .NET sing |
| 02:49 |
OldCoder |
It does have a future |
| 02:49 |
OldCoder |
It is not really best for your own projects |
| 02:49 |
OldCoder |
C++ is a horror |
| 02:50 |
OldCoder |
But this leaves dozens of languages |
| 02:50 |
OldCoder |
to choose from |
| 02:50 |
Hirato |
yeah |
| 02:50 |
Hirato |
I was thinking of playing with D, but dmd is pretty bad |
| 02:50 |
OldCoder |
Probably omit Malbolge :-) |
| 02:50 |
Hirato |
which is a shame, because the language has some really nice features |
| 02:50 |
OldCoder |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbolge |
| 02:51 |
OldCoder |
There's Perl, Node, Go, Python |
| 02:51 |
OldCoder |
A number of other contenders |
| 02:51 |
OldCoder |
Most seem to lean Python these days |
| 02:51 |
OldCoder |
But Python3 was a pretty bad wrong turn |
| 02:51 |
Hirato |
i'd pick python too :P |
| 02:51 |
OldCoder |
There you go then |
| 02:52 |
Hirato |
I have no interest in web development though |
| 02:52 |
OldCoder |
This is refreshing |
| 02:52 |
OldCoder |
Gamedev? |
| 02:52 |
OldCoder |
Hirato, ^ |
| 02:52 |
OldCoder |
That means C/C++ for most things |
| 02:52 |
Hirato |
what I know of the industry, I'd prefer to keep that a hobby |
| 02:53 |
OldCoder |
Well yes |
| 02:53 |
OldCoder |
There is professional |
| 02:53 |
OldCoder |
There are your startups |
| 02:53 |
OldCoder |
or ventures or FOSS projects |
| 02:53 |
OldCoder |
If gamedev is a hobby that is fine |
| 02:53 |
Hirato |
the project I linked you too is zlib licensed |
| 02:53 |
OldCoder |
Don't you get weary |
| 02:53 |
OldCoder |
Good |
| 02:53 |
OldCoder |
Pretty generous license |
| 02:54 |
OldCoder |
Don't you get weary of MS changes just trying to maintain lockin? |
| 02:54 |
OldCoder |
Of course this means job security |
| 02:54 |
Hirato |
they don't bother us too much with .NET |
| 02:54 |
OldCoder |
All right |
| 02:55 |
OldCoder |
Hirato, nice chatting. Called away for an hour or so. Feel free to ping. |
| 02:55 |
OldCoder |
o/ |
| 02:55 |
Hirato |
so far this year, there was one security update that broke our product's web service component if the .NET we built against had the patch but the local machine didn't |
| 02:56 |
Hirato |
as for next year, we just moved everything to .NET 4.6 from 4.0 |
| 02:56 |
Hirato |
only problem so far, absolutely retarded CompareTo functions people wrote decades back |
| 02:57 |
Hirato |
to elaborate, since .NET 4.5, MS throws a 'BadArgumentException' if the sorting algorithm says both a > b and b > a is true |
| 02:57 |
kaadmy |
malboge.. isn't that the one that took some years for someone to write something with it? and the first program was generated via computer? |
| 02:58 |
Hirato |
and whoever wrote the damn thing thought it was a good idea to just return -1 for every comparison |
| 02:58 |
kaadmy |
and the creator has never written anything with it? |
| 02:59 |
|
LazyJ joined #minetest |
| 03:02 |
|
JohnnyComeL8ly joined #minetest |
| 03:05 |
LazyJ |
Why does Minetest use the png format for textures as opposed to jpg, even on the non-transparent textures? |
| 03:09 |
Emperor_Genshin |
LazyJ, Isn't png format lightweight compared to jpg formatting? |
| 03:10 |
LazyJ |
jpg produces a smaller file in most cases. png keeps the alpha-channel, where as the jpg does not, so in those cases the pngs are larger. |
| 03:11 |
LazyJ |
Minetest will accept jpg format and so far my test have shown that non-transparent textures (like stone) can be made slightly smaller if jpg is used instead of png. |
| 03:12 |
LazyJ |
For overlays, the png is required because of the alpha-channel transparency... I'm guessing. |
| 03:13 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
LazyJ, I just looked it up... you don't have to have an alpha channel. |
| 03:13 |
LazyJ |
Even after using a program like pngquant or jpegoptim, the jpg's are still smaller. |
| 03:13 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
In png, that is. |
| 03:13 |
LazyJ |
Even without the alpha-channel, the jpgs are still smaller. |
| 03:15 |
LazyJ |
Last summer a lot of default images were "crushed" and VanessaE went through her mods and texture packs to optimize the size of the texture files. |
| 03:15 |
LazyJ |
With the push to have smaller files, I wondered why jpg wasn't used. |
| 03:16 |
Hirato |
optipng is the thing to use |
| 03:16 |
LazyJ |
Is there something about jpgs that the MT engine doesn't like? |
| 03:16 |
Hirato |
do keep in mind that minetest's textures are pretty low res, so JPEG compression would stand out like a sore thumb |
| 03:16 |
Emperor_Genshin |
^this |
| 03:16 |
Hirato |
and it still uses the same amount of VRMA in the end |
| 03:17 |
LazyJ |
optipng works but is much slower, particularly on larger images (65mb+). pngquant is faster but reduces the colors to a 256-color pallet. |
| 03:17 |
kaadmy |
VRAM* |
| 03:17 |
LazyJ |
Or palette? |
| 03:17 |
Hirato |
optipng is slower because it does tests, also it can do reduction to palettes and stuff too if the texture has only 255 colours |
| 03:17 |
kaadmy |
doesn't minetest use indexed color for images already? |
| 03:18 |
VanessaE |
LazyJ: jpg isn't used much because it doesn't work so great on low-resolution images or pixel art |
| 03:18 |
Emperor_Genshin |
^this |
| 03:18 |
VanessaE |
with stuff like HDX< it works quite well most of the time |
| 03:18 |
LazyJ |
When I used jpgs, I set the compression to "100%"... best quality, less compression, and the jpgs were still smaller than the png textures. |
| 03:18 |
VanessaE |
plus a fair number of minetest's images need transparency, which needs png |
| 03:19 |
VanessaE |
even "100%" is lossy |
| 03:19 |
kaadmy |
basically all tools and items |
| 03:19 |
Hirato |
am I imagining things, or does JPG2K support alpha? |
| 03:19 |
VanessaE |
kaadmy: right. |
| 03:19 |
VanessaE |
Hirato: it might, but nothing supports jpeg2k :P |
| 03:19 |
DI3HARD139 |
Is there a way to have mods stored on the server and client sided so the server doesnt have to send all the files to the client? |
| 03:19 |
Hirato |
alas |
| 03:19 |
VanessaE |
DI3HARD139: once the media has been sent, it's cached. the code is never sent. |
| 03:20 |
kaadmy |
aren't mod assets checked for existing ones? |
| 03:20 |
VanessaE |
tep |
| 03:20 |
VanessaE |
yep* |
| 03:20 |
Hirato |
them md5's mang |
| 03:20 |
DI3HARD139 |
Is there a way to permanently store the media so it doesn't have to be resent? |
| 03:20 |
kaadmy |
present*? |
| 03:20 |
VanessaE |
DI3HARD139: sure - don't clear your cache :P |
| 03:21 |
Hirato |
and don't change it, I think it matches by md5 sum |
| 03:21 |
VanessaE |
minetest keeps a persistent cache that, as far as I know, never gets emptied. |
| 03:21 |
VanessaE |
Hirato: sha1 I think. |
| 03:21 |
Hirato |
even better |
| 03:21 |
DI3HARD139 |
I usually don't. Just trying to figure out ways to speed up media fetch times. |
| 03:21 |
kaadmy |
unless you clear it ;-) |
| 03:21 |
VanessaE |
DI3HARD139: make sure both ends are using cURL and remote media. |
| 03:21 |
Hirato |
there's an option somewhere to only load the media as you need it, maybe try that? |
| 03:22 |
kaadmy |
afaik just downloading the mod locally will work? |
| 03:22 |
VanessaE |
and always make sure to copy your cache dir over when you update minetest, if you're using run-in-place builds. |
| 03:22 |
LazyJ |
But is the cache changed when logging into a different server? |
| 03:22 |
VanessaE |
kaadmy: download it and using it once. |
| 03:22 |
VanessaE |
LazyJ: no. the files are cached and named by their hash |
| 03:22 |
LazyJ |
Particularly if one server uses a newer or older version of the same mod? |
| 03:22 |
VanessaE |
so you could have a dozen default_cobble.png if they were all different. |
| 03:23 |
kaadmy |
yep |
| 03:23 |
Hirato |
if the file's the same, it won't resend it |
| 03:23 |
VanessaE |
if the file differs, it'll have a different SHA1 hash and thus, it'll be saved as a unique file. |
| 03:23 |
DI3HARD139 |
I connect to the server at the local level on a 1Gbps uplink and it still takes forever XD |
| 03:23 |
kaadmy |
the server might have bad bandwith |
| 03:24 |
VanessaE |
a lot of the time spent on media now is acquiring average colors for the minimap. |
| 03:24 |
VanessaE |
and that process is not cached. |
| 03:24 |
kaadmy |
ahh |
| 03:24 |
DI3HARD139 |
that explains alot lol |
| 03:24 |
DI3HARD139 |
a lot* |
| 03:24 |
kaadmy |
is it only done if the minimap's enabled? |
| 03:24 |
VanessaE |
so when you have a shitton of media files, minetest spends a while tearing through them for data to be used to render the minimap |
| 03:24 |
VanessaE |
it's done every startup. |
| 03:24 |
VanessaE |
kahrl and I were chatting about this the other day. |
| 03:25 |
kaadmy |
could it work to get the pixel nearest the image center for the minimap color? |
| 03:26 |
DI3HARD139 |
I'm partially blaming the HDD for the issues. It's been slowing down quite a bit. Good ole sh***y toshiba 2.5" HDDs |
| 03:26 |
VanessaE |
DI3HARD139: yes, that matters too. an SSD will greatly speed up initial media loading |
| 03:26 |
VanessaE |
(like 3x faster compared to modern spinning rust, I guess) |
| 03:27 |
DI3HARD139 |
likely more than that aslong as the data bus can handle it |
| 03:27 |
DI3HARD139 |
but sadly its sata rev. 2 so there wont be much of a benefit other than seek times |
| 03:28 |
VanessaE |
well |
| 03:28 |
VanessaE |
my drive and board are SATA2 |
| 03:28 |
VanessaE |
and even then SSD is a great enhancement over spinning rust |
| 03:29 |
VanessaE |
that's where I got the 3x figure from; an SSD-on-PCIe card would be close to 10x faster |
| 03:29 |
DI3HARD139 |
thats what I thought about doing. I have a ton of PCIe lanes going to waste |
| 03:30 |
* DI3HARD139 |
wonders how large the mods folder is now |
| 03:31 |
kaadmy |
DI3HARD139: if you're using linux, go to the mods folder and type 'du -sh .' |
| 03:31 |
VanessaE |
my whole mods tree, including stuff I don't use anywhere, attic, and old versions of stuff, is 547 MB |
| 03:32 |
kaadmy |
if you have the technic subgame, it's ~140 mb |
| 03:32 |
VanessaE |
though my servers all maybe total 50MB of unique media between them |
| 03:32 |
VanessaE |
my whole games tree is 687 megs |
| 03:32 |
VanessaE |
but that's including things like git history too |
| 03:32 |
VanessaE |
to rather bloated compared to what a client gets. |
| 03:33 |
DI3HARD139 |
I'm using 100.1MB w/ 13,842 items (all updated to latest stable) |
| 03:33 |
VanessaE |
so* |
| 03:33 |
DI3HARD139 |
The directory is shared by all but 1 server |
| 03:50 |
DI3HARD139 |
enabled the mapfix mod..... good bye sunlight XD |
| 04:01 |
|
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| 04:09 |
kaeza |
asdf |
| 04:09 |
kaeza |
merry birthday |
| 04:10 |
kaeza |
or whatever it was |
| 04:10 |
kaeza |
:P |
| 04:10 |
everamzah |
how about that weather tho? |
| 04:11 |
Emperor_Genshin |
merry birthday lol |
| 04:13 |
DI3HARD139 |
merry birthday? |
| 04:14 |
DI3HARD139 |
whos birthday is tomorrow? |
| 04:16 |
kaeza |
fsm's? idk, & idrc. ttgd |
| 04:16 |
Emperor_Genshin |
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 04:17 |
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| 04:18 |
Emperor_Genshin |
Whoever has a birthday at 12/25 Merry Birthday I guess lol |
| 04:18 |
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| 04:18 |
kaeza |
now, in all seriousness, merry christmas/winter solstice/whatever, all |
| 04:18 |
Emperor_Genshin |
Merry Chrismas kaeza |
| 04:22 |
LazyJ |
Here's a Christmas wish for Minetest - alphabetized texture pack list in the main menu's "Texturepacks" tab. |
| 04:22 |
DI3HARD139 |
I want a central mod list built into the game |
| 04:23 |
LazyJ |
... and the return of the old, simpler, "Settings" tab. Keep the current one, rename it "Advanced Settings" and bring back the old one as "Settings". |
| 04:23 |
DI3HARD139 |
^ |
| 04:24 |
everamzah |
a search bar would be nice, while we're wishing. i spent so much time looking for a setting to turn off particles and just gave up |
| 04:28 |
sofar |
file a github issue for those |
| 04:29 |
sofar |
they're reasonable requests, so might as well make them official requests |
| 04:29 |
* everamzah |
backs away slowly |
| 04:29 |
sofar |
if you can't bother to open a ticket, why would anyone bother to fix it? |
| 04:30 |
everamzah |
ok okaaay i'm going gahhh |
| 04:30 |
LazyJ |
I think the settings tab addition has been posted... either on GitHub or the MT forums... can't remember which atm. |
| 04:33 |
everamzah |
the addition for making the current (new) one an "advanced" settings menu, and restoring the original settings menu for the main menu tab |
| 04:33 |
everamzah |
yes |
| 04:39 |
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| 04:42 |
kaeza |
lel Atomic sux |
| 04:43 |
kaeza |
bad |
| 04:44 |
kaeza |
suggest a reasonable IRC client for Android |
| 04:47 |
DI3HARD139 |
AndroIRC |
| 04:49 |
VanessaE |
AndChat |
| 04:51 |
rom1504 |
glowing bear |
| 04:52 |
DI3HARD139 |
rollback is nice and all until someone rejoins 2 months later and u have to check 9999999999999s ago because they didnt protect a portion.... |
| 04:59 |
Emperor_Genshin |
lel, happens |
| 05:01 |
kaeza |
AndroIRX sucks as bad, if not more (without even complaining about nonfred SW) |
| 05:01 |
DI3HARD139 |
why? I havn't had any probs with it |
| 05:04 |
kaeza |
crashes often, interface is horrendous (pkay, my opinion, but still...) |
| 05:04 |
kaeza |
or maybe my device sucks? idk |
| 05:05 |
kaeza |
it's christmas complaining hour |
| 05:06 |
kaeza |
aka, stopping #minetest being so silent |
| 05:07 |
kaeza |
:P |
| 05:08 |
DI3HARD139 |
I agree. Its way to silent |
| 05:08 |
DI3HARD139 |
Is there a reason why the sun in Minetest would turn white and there isnt any sunlight? |
| 05:11 |
exio4 |
kaeza: yaaic |
| 05:12 |
exio4 |
kaeza: \o |
| 05:12 |
exio4 |
oh wait, Atomic is a "mantained" yaaic :/ |
| 05:13 |
DI3HARD139 |
could always use kiwi via chrome (not sure if works in firefox on android) |
| 05:16 |
kaadmy |
atomic does suck, im using irccloud now |
| 05:16 |
kaadmy |
handles caching, which is a big prob for me. |
| 05:17 |
VanessaE |
kaeza: don't care for AndChat? |
| 05:19 |
exio4 |
my go-to irc client on android is a ssh (ideally mosh) client to my server =) |
| 05:19 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 05:19 |
exio4 |
happy xmas if you happen to celebrate it |
| 05:19 |
DI3HARD139 |
u aswell exio3 |
| 05:19 |
DI3HARD139 |
exio4* |
| 05:19 |
exio4 |
it's mostly an excuse to drink some alcohol, with family and have some fun :) |
| 05:21 |
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| 05:22 |
lemon |
everamzah, just use minetest.conf |
| 05:25 |
DI3HARD139 |
I wonder if anyone built a raspberry pi into a keyboard..... |
| 05:26 |
kaadmy |
=faster TRS-80 |
| 05:26 |
kaadmy |
waay faster :P |
| 05:26 |
DI3HARD139 |
indeed |
| 05:32 |
Emperor_Genshin |
For those who likes cats lel, http://jokideo.com/wp-content/uploads/meme/2014/12/Christmas-cat-meme.jpg |
| 05:35 |
everamzah |
lemon: indeed. on principle, however, in old settings menu "enable particles" was a one-click jobbie. i'm ok with editing a config file, but thought maybe this was a bit of a regression |
| 05:35 |
everamzah |
also glowing bear |
| 05:36 |
Emperor_Genshin |
kaeza, this is what I had in mind to share. I still need to work on a timer for it's sequences https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13775 |
| 05:37 |
DI3HARD139 |
I hope this goes well. I've been looking for something like that forever |
| 05:37 |
DI3HARD139 |
! |
| 05:38 |
DI3HARD139 |
Would it be possible to increase the activation level though? |
| 05:38 |
Emperor_Genshin |
It's quite possible in a way |
| 05:38 |
DI3HARD139 |
Ok. *adds to bookmarks since theres no follow button* |
| 05:42 |
lemon |
I think what minetest lacks is proper units of measurements. |
| 05:43 |
lemon |
There should be an universal unit system for minetest. |
| 05:44 |
DI3HARD139 |
Is there a way to reduce the player position check of the server? Im having issues with the vehicle mods on my servers suddenly halting movement. anti-cheat is disabled |
| 05:46 |
everamzah |
/set dedicated_server_step perhaps? |
| 05:46 |
Emperor_Genshin |
^that could help a bit |
| 05:47 |
DI3HARD139 |
I have it set to 0.1 atm |
| 05:47 |
DI3HARD139 |
any suggestions of what to increase it to? |
| 05:47 |
Emperor_Genshin |
perhaps 0.3 |
| 05:48 |
Emperor_Genshin |
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 05:48 |
DI3HARD139 |
I just set it to 1 |
| 05:48 |
Emperor_Genshin |
1 or more makes movement terrible |
| 05:48 |
DI3HARD139 |
oh... ok |
| 05:48 |
DI3HARD139 |
hmmm |
| 05:48 |
Emperor_Genshin |
trust me, I've tried it |
| 05:55 |
DI3HARD139 |
0.3 didnt make a difference. Set it to 0 and IRC doesn't work anymore XD |
| 05:56 |
Emperor_Genshin |
lol, oh well |
| 05:56 |
Emperor_Genshin |
hmm |
| 05:56 |
Emperor_Genshin |
try 0.5 or 0.10 |
| 05:58 |
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| 05:59 |
Emperor_Genshin |
kaeza, what do you think of this? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13775 |
| 06:12 |
kaeza |
Emperor_Genshin: too lazy/drunk to review code, but again, +1 for the general idea |
| 06:13 |
kaeza |
:D |
| 06:13 |
Emperor_Genshin |
thanks :3 |
| 06:13 |
kaeza |
sowwy |
| 06:13 |
Emperor_Genshin |
it's ok |
| 06:18 |
DI3HARD139 |
How can I adjust the length of the day/night? |
| 06:18 |
DI3HARD139 |
Server is stuck at night reguardless of the time and its driving me nuts |
| 06:19 |
lemon |
Suppose I have some table and I want to create a field as in the following example: pies[player][id] = 900. if pies[player] is not created, it won't work. |
| 06:20 |
lemon |
Should I use "if not pies[player] then pies[player] = {} end" construction? |
| 06:20 |
Emperor_Genshin |
DI3HARD139, time_speed |
| 06:21 |
lemon |
or is there a better way to handle this problem? |
| 06:21 |
DI3HARD139 |
I adjusted that. Its 11:05 am igt and its still dark |
| 06:22 |
DI3HARD139 |
it was a setting in a mod... as usual |
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| 07:22 |
Thomas-S |
hi |
| 07:30 |
Thomas-S |
bye |
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lemon |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13795&p=202584 |
| 07:40 |
nm0i |
conky |
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Krock |
Merry Christmas everyone! |
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Blekpug |
Mod Desert Uses is now unavailable. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3761 |
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| 08:17 |
lemon |
Blekpug, screenshots? |
| 08:18 |
Krock |
no screenshorts, it's just down |
| 08:19 |
Krock |
Blekpug, I don't have that mod on my HDD right now but there might be someone else who can upload it again :) |
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| 09:52 |
Blekpug |
Is renaming a player as easy as changing the file name? |
| 09:54 |
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| 09:54 |
Thomas-S |
hi |
| 10:18 |
Krock |
Blekpug, no, you also must change the auth.txt file |
| 10:18 |
Krock |
after that's done you also have to change all metadata in map.sqlite |
| 10:18 |
Krock |
In short: It takes too much work to rename someone |
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Blekpug |
Thanks for the info. I'll make sure to pick a name in advance now. |
| 10:47 |
Ingar |
been using the same nickname for the past 20 years, it kinda simplifies things :D |
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| 11:19 |
Blekpug |
I am attempting to use the HDX texture pack. I have tried putting it in /usr/local/share/minetest/textures/HDX and then also under a 'pack' directory. minetest does not find it. I am using minetest from git master branch. VanessaE |
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| 12:00 |
Blekpug |
I flew around in a MapGen 7 world. It didn't look bad. Underground water, No lava. |
| 12:00 |
VanessaE |
Blekpug: about HDX, put the whole folder in <minetest dir>/textures/ |
| 12:01 |
VanessaE |
(usually ~/.minetest/textures for global installs) |
| 12:01 |
VanessaE |
then enable it in the menu in the Texture Packs tab |
| 12:01 |
Blekpug |
I had only the directory with the PNG files, perhaps that was the problem. |
| 12:01 |
VanessaE |
nope |
| 12:01 |
Blekpug |
I'll try again. |
| 12:01 |
VanessaE |
that's not the prob |
| 12:02 |
VanessaE |
just make sure you have the whole pack |
| 12:02 |
VanessaE |
you should have e.g., ~/.minetest/textures/HDX-256/<bunch of png and jpg files here> |
| 12:04 |
VanessaE |
(or at least that's how I arrange mine) |
| 12:08 |
Blekpug |
It is found if I use ~/.minetest textures but not /usr(/local)?/share/minetest/textures. |
| 12:09 |
VanessaE |
I'm not sure if the engine will look there or not. |
| 12:11 |
Thomas-S |
bye |
| 12:13 |
CWz |
well mobs_redo is broken |
| 12:14 |
rubenwardy |
wow... |
| 12:14 |
Blekpug |
I like it so far with 32px. |
| 12:15 |
rubenwardy |
MSG: your report or feedback can jump kill allow (no mods online) |
| 12:15 |
rubenwardy |
Silly people. The help I gave was "To report someone or something, type /report your report or feedback" |
| 12:16 |
rubenwardy |
I also have 51 messages in my server inbox |
| 12:16 |
rubenwardy |
reports |
| 12:20 |
Blekpug |
Poll: when you build subteranean homes or bases, do you do it at coordinates of your desire and excavate what and where you want? or do you embrace the chaos and use existing caverns? |
| 12:22 |
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| 12:39 |
kkk_ |
hey |
| 12:39 |
kkk_ |
wzup |
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| 12:59 |
Jordach |
merry christmas |
| 12:59 |
Jordach |
ayy lmao |
| 12:59 |
Krock |
Merry christmas :) |
| 12:59 |
Jordach |
is dank |
| 13:00 |
Jordach |
bought a steam controller |
| 13:00 |
Krock |
now you can control the money |
| 13:00 |
Krock |
steam money |
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MinetestBot |
[git] sapier AT gmx dot net -> minetest/minetest: Add missing documentation of automatic_face_movement_max_rotation_per_sec entity parameter cdbb9ef http://git.io/vE2VY (2015-12-25T14:11:39+01:00) |
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MinetestBot |
[git] sofar -> minetest/minetest_game: Remove spores from mushrooms. 32bdb9a http://git.io/vEafN (2015-12-25T15:37:40Z) |
| 15:42 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sofar -> minetest/minetest_game: Verify node type is facedir. 82299b9 http://git.io/vEafA (2015-12-25T15:37:17Z) |
| 15:42 |
MinetestBot |
[git] kilbith -> minetest/minetest_game: Add a search field to the creative inventory b1e2ece http://git.io/vEafx (2015-12-25T15:36:55Z) |
| 15:45 |
sapier |
does anyone know about a portal mod? |
| 15:49 |
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JohnnyComeL8ly |
MERRY Christmas! |
| 16:25 |
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| 16:42 |
Blekpug |
What are the rules for growing trees? They need a certain amount of light at least. Is the light incident on their block or only on the top face? Must they be free around the base? |
| 16:42 |
Blekpug |
Where is a mod to adjust how much light is needed to grow them? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/725 |
| 16:43 |
Out`Of`Control |
biom_lib |
| 16:44 |
Out`Of`Control |
biome_lib* |
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| 16:54 |
paramat |
you need a meselamp or anything of light level 14 (torches are 13) directly beside the sapling |
| 16:55 |
paramat |
horizontally level with, and not diagonally-beside |
| 16:56 |
paramat |
btw all mapgen other than mgv6 have lava caves starting at y = -256 |
| 16:57 |
paramat |
to change the required light add a mod that redefines the 'can grow' function |
| 16:57 |
Blekpug |
paramat: Would surrounding it with torches suffice? |
| 16:57 |
paramat |
nope |
| 16:58 |
kaadmy |
light's the same all around the torch |
| 16:58 |
paramat |
the light doesn't add up |
| 16:58 |
Blekpug |
Good to learn. |
| 16:58 |
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| 16:58 |
Blekpug |
Useful information. |
| 16:58 |
kaadmy |
and the sapling node has to be [x] light, so torches anywhere around it should work |
| 16:59 |
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| 17:00 |
Blekpug |
The saplink sticks if planted in stone. Can it grow there? I have a pine sapling surrounded by super glow glass. (know I know it is same as 1 super glow glass. It has been there for a fairly long while. |
| 17:00 |
Fedmahn_Kassad |
Does anyine help with a bug |
| 17:01 |
paramat |
no needs dirt or grass |
| 17:01 |
Fedmahn_Kassad |
Access violation (Exception 0xC0000005) at 0x69308310 |
| 17:01 |
Blekpug |
super glow glass is supposed to be brighter than a torch, so should be at least 14. |
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| 17:09 |
Blekpug |
I have biome_lib installed. Perhaps that prevents the tree from growing. |
| 17:10 |
Blekpug |
default of light_max for biome_lib is engine value of 14 |
| 17:11 |
everamzah |
Fedmahn_Kassad: did u already try a restart? |
| 17:11 |
everamzah |
sounds strange, but i have a machine that if it resumes from hibernate, will segfault trying to load minetest, and i have to reboot |
| 17:12 |
kaadmy |
everamzah: i have a similar problem; anything using opengl segfaults after my machinecrashes sometimes |
| 17:13 |
Fedmahn_Kassad |
of cours |
| 17:13 |
Fedmahn_Kassad |
i have it a few times |
| 17:13 |
kaadmy |
Blekpug: treeswon't grow on stone afaik |
| 17:16 |
Blekpug |
super glow glass: light_source = 15 |
| 17:17 |
Blekpug |
Planted on transported earth, now. |
| 17:17 |
Blekpug |
will observe |
| 17:24 |
Blekpug |
Tree on earth grew. Those on stone did not. |
| 17:24 |
kaadmy |
that's what i thought. |
| 17:24 |
Blekpug |
I have biome_lib. I don't know what it changes. |
| 17:27 |
Fedmahn_Kassad |
Where i can get an old version of client |
| 17:28 |
kaadmy |
which version? |
| 17:28 |
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Fedmahn_Kassad |
0.4.10 |
| 17:31 |
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kaadmy |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/tree/0.4.10 |
| 17:31 |
kaadmy |
just the source version though |
| 17:32 |
Fedmahn_Kassad |
thank u |
| 17:36 |
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Blekpug |
My computer can not handle (something in) plant_life |
| 18:10 |
Blekpug |
(it is jerky & slow) |
| 18:18 |
kaadmy |
probably the amount of registered nodes is laggy |
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Thomas-S |
hi |
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Calinou |
http://ukupat.github.io/tabs-or-spaces/ |
| 18:48 |
kaadmy |
lol, ruby |
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| 19:14 |
rom1504 |
2 spaces ftw |
| 19:14 |
rom1504 |
"Analysed 357 repositories" though |
| 19:15 |
rom1504 |
the total number of repo analysed must be like 0.1% of github |
| 19:15 |
rom1504 |
ah "The Top Starred repositories in Github" |
| 19:15 |
Calinou |
3 spaces |
| 19:15 |
Calinou |
to indent like a pro |
| 19:15 |
Calinou |
Can you stand the OCD? |
| 19:15 |
Calinou |
should be pretty representative of high-quality projects |
| 19:16 |
Calinou |
since they're followed a lot |
| 19:16 |
rom1504 |
yeah https://github.com/Rabrennie/anything.js/ has lot of stars, it's so very much representative |
| 19:17 |
Calinou |
minus the joke things, yeah |
| 19:17 |
rom1504 |
but yeah it's probably representativ |
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rom1504 |
e |
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rom1504 |
what about indenting with 1 space and 1 tab though ? |
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LinuxGuy2020 |
VanessaE: I was talking to you before about how you setup and administer your servers. I am just about to ditch NAS4Free and install debian on my server. But I was wondering if you have any experience with using Webmin to do all the configuring instead of manually editing files? |
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Thomas-S |
bye |
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Hijiri |
bye |
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LandMine |
Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!!! |
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LandMine |
#join /random |
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LandMine |
Fk |
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alket |
merry christmas to you too |
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Fixer |
whooo waaaants soooooooome!? |
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Fixer |
Europe looks snowless |
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