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Megaf_ |
!server microship |
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MinetestBot |
Megaf_: No results |
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Megaf_ |
what is microships server? |
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BBmine |
tell obani that his advice worked. |
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blaise |
:D |
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MinetestBot |
[git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Default/mapgen: Tune biome points for improved disribution 3d6f168 http://git.io/v88so (2015-11-08T05:04:39Z) |
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| 05:32 |
blaise |
what was that mod that had reinforced picks ? |
| 05:32 |
blaise |
was it gloop? |
| 05:33 |
blaise |
would end up with a green pick that would last a lot longer than mese or diamond pick? |
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swift110-phone |
Hrywguy |
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swift110-phone |
Hey guys |
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blaise |
howdy |
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Krock |
Good morning, everybody :) |
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gregorycu |
Morning |
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| 09:49 |
DevilMayhem |
This is my first time using irc. anyone can help me? |
| 09:49 |
RealBadAngel |
whats ur problem? |
| 09:50 |
DevilMayhem |
i dont know who can read my messages for one |
| 09:50 |
RealBadAngel |
if youre writing in public chan everybody can read it |
| 09:51 |
RealBadAngel |
if you need to send private msg type /msg nick ur_message_here |
| 10:07 |
Ingar |
yep, you're doing it wrong |
| 10:08 |
Krock |
I guess your client also supports double-clicking on a name to open the private chat |
| 10:08 |
Krock |
ouch. |
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Krock |
He's gone |
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Ingar |
made grass footsteps last night, they might actually be usable |
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| 10:17 |
Telesight |
Hello all, is it "normal" that if a player builds above/in a big waterarea the cpu load is raised by 2% ? |
| 10:17 |
gregorycu |
2% isn't that much |
| 10:18 |
gregorycu |
for how long is it raised 2%? |
| 10:18 |
Telesight |
For as long as he is there ... |
| 10:18 |
gregorycu |
he being the player? |
| 10:18 |
Telesight |
It is a normal player .. |
| 10:19 |
gregorycu |
I can look into this, in about 30 minutes |
| 10:21 |
Telesight |
That is fine ... |
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| 10:57 |
robert_ |
so is minetest compatible with minecraft in any way, or is it just marketing? (Or am I half-asleep?) |
| 10:58 |
gregorycu |
It aims to be functionally compatable |
| 10:58 |
gregorycu |
Same sort of concept |
| 10:59 |
robert_ |
ah. |
| 11:03 |
robert_ |
so it won't be able to use like any mods, then? |
| 11:03 |
gregorycu |
No |
| 11:04 |
sfan5 |
"or is it just marketing?" |
| 11:04 |
sfan5 |
huh |
| 11:04 |
sfan5 |
where did you read something about MC compatibility? |
| 11:05 |
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| 11:05 |
robert_ |
"Want to install dozens of mods at once? You can. Want to play Hunger Games? No problem!" |
| 11:06 |
sfan5 |
that doesn't imply any sort of compatibility to Minecraft |
| 11:07 |
robert_ |
then "I'm half-asleep." Got it. |
| 11:07 |
robert_ |
but I thought I saw somewhere there was a hunger games mod for minecraft. |
| 11:08 |
sfan5 |
possibly |
| 11:08 |
sfan5 |
whoever wrote that probably meant the concept not the MC mod itself |
| 11:12 |
robert_ |
aha |
| 11:12 |
robert_ |
where are the seeds? |
| 11:12 |
robert_ |
oh, nevermind. |
| 11:20 |
Ingar |
meh ethereal uses dirt sound as grass sound |
| 11:21 |
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| 11:35 |
Obani |
robert_, you were asking for the seeds ? |
| 11:36 |
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| 11:36 |
Ingar |
have some sound https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13437 |
| 11:36 |
Ingar |
not perfect yet, but better |
| 11:36 |
Ingar |
imho, better than what's in git now ^^ |
| 11:36 |
Obani |
robert_, the only way MC is compatible with MT might be maps and texture packs |
| 11:37 |
Obani |
You can convert MC maps and texture packs to MT ones |
| 11:37 |
Ingar |
as a side-question, are there hooks for water-related sounds ? |
| 11:38 |
Obani |
Ingar, what do you mean ? |
| 11:38 |
Ingar |
I particulary miss the splonsh when jumping into the water from a high building |
| 11:38 |
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| 11:38 |
Obani |
there isn't any sound for water yet I think |
| 11:38 |
Ingar |
Obani: I'm making sounds |
| 11:38 |
Obani |
while I'm making some too |
| 11:39 |
Ingar |
need to know how to reference them in the lua game code |
| 11:39 |
Obani |
Ambience modpack includes several sounds added, there are some water sounds there |
| 11:40 |
Ingar |
interesting |
| 11:42 |
Obani |
But their quality is....hem... :P |
| 11:43 |
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| 11:43 |
Ingar |
I have some usable water fx in my wav library |
| 11:44 |
Ingar |
also |
| 11:44 |
Ingar |
when you walk on the bottom of a lake |
| 11:44 |
Ingar |
you get the sound of the surface you're walking on |
| 11:45 |
Ingar |
should probably be something else |
| 11:45 |
Obani |
Ingar, including to Minetest is a real problem |
| 11:45 |
Ingar |
Obani: how so ? |
| 11:45 |
Obani |
Because each sound will be charged at the launch in an uncompressed format |
| 11:45 |
Obani |
a music = 200 Mo loaded |
| 11:45 |
Obani |
5 musics = 1 Gb |
| 11:45 |
Obani |
Mb* |
| 11:46 |
Obani |
That's why many servers don't use mods like ambience_modpack |
| 11:46 |
Ingar |
Obani: that's a music issue, normal sounds aren't that big |
| 11:46 |
Obani |
And that's why ambience modpack as so bad quality sounds |
| 11:46 |
Ingar |
you'll need sound fx uncompressed anyway |
| 11:46 |
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| 11:47 |
Ingar |
engin eshould probably stream the music |
| 11:47 |
Obani |
including too much sfx to default game |
| 11:47 |
Obani |
would not be appreciated I think |
| 11:47 |
Ingar |
Obani: but I can understand becasue my own game has exactly the same problem :D |
| 11:47 |
Obani |
As minetest is about minimalism |
| 11:47 |
Ingar |
Obani: right now, I'm just replacing the default ones |
| 11:48 |
Ingar |
and add the ones that are seriously missing, or where the default sounds ridiculous |
| 11:48 |
Obani |
The invert exists, games who use BMP format for their games |
| 11:48 |
Obani |
Loading time reduced, but 1 Gb of textures |
| 11:49 |
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| 11:50 |
Jordach |
do i see lego starfighters!?! |
| 11:50 |
Ingar |
Jordach: yes, but that was a test ;) they're not included in the default game data |
| 11:50 |
Jordach |
ooo |
| 11:50 |
Ingar |
Obani: the good solution is to have special code for music in the engine |
| 11:51 |
Obani |
This will never be agreed I think |
| 11:52 |
Obani |
music is important in the game process |
| 11:52 |
Obani |
But nobody cares about i |
| 11:52 |
Obani |
it* |
| 11:52 |
Obani |
Cause nobody understands how it's important |
| 11:52 |
Obani |
It's like freedom |
| 11:52 |
Ingar |
Obani: that I totally agree on |
| 11:52 |
Ingar |
that music is important |
| 11:52 |
Obani |
Everyone thinks freedom is cool |
| 11:52 |
Obani |
Nobody fights for it |
| 11:52 |
Ingar |
well |
| 11:53 |
Obani |
Cause nobody understands how it's important |
| 11:53 |
Ingar |
has anyone ever written a patch with music support |
| 11:53 |
Obani |
Well the only way to add music to the game is to use a lua mod |
| 11:53 |
Ingar |
no I mean |
| 11:53 |
Obani |
So it has to be charged as a mod sound |
| 11:53 |
Ingar |
has anyone ever written a music handling module for the engine |
| 11:53 |
Obani |
It's the only way |
| 11:53 |
Ingar |
start coding |
| 11:54 |
Obani |
I don't think so |
| 11:54 |
Obani |
I told you |
| 11:54 |
Obani |
Nobody cares about music |
| 11:54 |
Ingar |
but my question still stands |
| 11:54 |
Ingar |
has anyone ever done a proper implementation |
| 11:54 |
Obani |
The only ones who understand this are musicians (in their subjective way, cause they're musicians), and gamers who studied the question of "what is important to the game feeling?" |
| 11:54 |
Ingar |
in C++ |
| 11:55 |
Obani |
Even if the music is not good, if it fits well with the game, it will be good |
| 11:55 |
Obani |
And make part of the game experience |
| 11:55 |
Obani |
e.g : SuperTux musics |
| 11:56 |
Obani |
THey're bad midi musics |
| 11:56 |
Obani |
But they become good playing the game |
| 11:56 |
Obani |
It's the same for old games musics |
| 12:00 |
Obani |
OMG I'm making da sci-fi music xD |
| 12:04 |
Calinou |
Obani, would be nice if you made music like this https://up1.ca/#ZJMeHBVvMVfNoF5YwgNfYw |
| 12:06 |
Obani |
Calinou, easy, but this one is really cheap :P |
| 12:06 |
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| 12:07 |
Obani |
Calinou, why should I make a music like this one ? ^^ |
| 12:07 |
Obani |
For some FPS project ? actually I'm working on the musi of the board game :p |
| 12:08 |
Obani |
music* |
| 12:08 |
Obani |
argh my ears |
| 12:08 |
Obani |
the music is not so good but the most awful is the mix >< |
| 12:11 |
Obani |
getting back to my 80's trip |
| 12:13 |
Obani |
Calinou, you want me to make a DnB music for ..? |
| 12:15 |
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| 12:29 |
Fixer |
unable to connect to LinuxGaming2 |
| 12:33 |
Fixer |
working now |
| 12:33 |
Fixer |
grrr |
| 12:33 |
Fixer |
that texture problem is widespread |
| 12:33 |
Fixer |
too bad |
| 12:38 |
Fixer |
new screenshots of the problem https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13500&p=197545#p197545 |
| 12:41 |
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| 12:44 |
Calinou |
Obani, don't know :D |
| 13:07 |
Fixer |
Calinou: btw, Xonotic is the only game that is causing driver crash on Windows %) |
| 13:08 |
Megaf_ |
!server Megaf |
| 13:08 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf_: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 3/20, 1/6 | Version: 0.4.13-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 7ms |
| 13:08 |
Megaf_ |
Fixer: yep, the Warzone AI is just too hard |
| 13:08 |
Megaf_ |
Im just starting in the begining of the tech level and they come with gigantic rockets and radars and stuff |
| 13:08 |
Fixer |
for true geeks |
| 13:08 |
Fixer |
you can beat it |
| 13:09 |
Megaf_ |
morning Krock |
| 13:09 |
Krock |
good afternoon, Megaf_ |
| 13:10 |
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| 13:15 |
Calinou |
Fixer, vid_soft 1 |
| 13:15 |
* Calinou |
runs |
| 13:15 |
Fixer |
lol |
| 13:16 |
Fixer |
nexuiz is working fine anyway |
| 13:16 |
Krock |
vid_soft? |
| 13:16 |
Calinou |
software rendering |
| 13:16 |
Calinou |
there also should be D3D9 rendering |
| 13:16 |
Calinou |
maybe vid_d3d9 or something like that |
| 13:16 |
Fixer |
that warm software rendering |
| 13:16 |
Calinou |
try "apropos direct" |
| 13:16 |
Fixer |
like in Half-Life |
| 13:16 |
Fixer |
or Quake |
| 13:18 |
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| 13:22 |
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| 13:23 |
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| 13:25 |
AndDT |
Calinou: but xonotic is based on darkplaces engine, iirc there is no software rendering |
| 13:27 |
Hirato |
AndDT: there is |
| 13:27 |
Fixer |
darkplaces is originally for Doom? or Duke Nukem? |
| 13:27 |
Fixer |
or Quake 1? |
| 13:28 |
AndDT |
Quake1 |
| 13:28 |
AndDT |
eduke32 is Duke Nukem |
| 13:29 |
AndDT |
(G)ZDoom,ZDaemon,csDoom,odamex,skulltag(zandronum) are Doom |
| 13:29 |
Calinou |
Fixer, Quake 1 |
| 13:30 |
Fixer |
i have eduke32 and I like it |
| 13:30 |
Calinou |
AndDT, there is, DarkPlaces implemented its own |
| 13:30 |
Calinou |
works in both Xonotic and Quake |
| 13:31 |
RealBadAngel |
Obani, the music or the sounds doesnt have to be send by the server, they can be stored completely only on client side |
| 13:31 |
RealBadAngel |
so such ambience mod can work on server and let the client play local files |
| 13:31 |
Ingar |
RealBadAngel: the issue is probably that the client decodes all loaded music OGG files to WAV in memory |
| 13:32 |
Obani |
RealBadAngel, I know, but did someone ever do that ? |
| 13:32 |
Obani |
You can change textures locally, but can you change sounds ? |
| 13:33 |
RealBadAngel |
just install ambience mod server side and move all the sound files from server to the client |
| 13:33 |
AndDT |
Calinou: darkplaces-sdl +vid_soft 1 ? |
| 13:33 |
RealBadAngel |
into /sounds folder |
| 13:33 |
Obani |
RealBadAngel, does it exist ? |
| 13:33 |
RealBadAngel |
create it |
| 13:33 |
Obani |
nah |
| 13:33 |
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| 13:34 |
RealBadAngel |
if theres such folder engine will search it and will play sounds from it |
| 13:34 |
AndDT |
Yeah! |
| 13:34 |
AndDT |
Cool |
| 13:34 |
AndDT |
Calinou: first it didn't work because wrapper-script for darkplaces-sdl doesn't have $@ |
| 13:34 |
Fixer |
whooo wants sooome? -> http://hrp.duke4.net/ |
| 13:34 |
RealBadAngel |
this way you can either override server sounds or just provide sound files without need them being send from server |
| 13:34 |
Obani |
RealBadAngel, you mean that the function exists but the sounds folder had never been included to minetest ? |
| 13:35 |
Obani |
while textures folder always existed ? |
| 13:35 |
RealBadAngel |
such funcionality is in the engine since years |
| 13:35 |
Obani |
._. |
| 13:35 |
AndDT |
Coooooool, software rendering! Now I can play quake1 on my laptop with s3 virge (2000 year) |
| 13:35 |
RealBadAngel |
also, you can have main menu music in it |
| 13:35 |
Hirato |
what can I say, clearly no one has /heard/ about it ;) |
| 13:35 |
Obani |
.-. |
| 13:35 |
RealBadAngel |
just create that folder, put there main_menu.ogg and game will play it |
| 13:36 |
Obani |
Ingar, This might interest you |
| 13:36 |
Calinou |
AndDT, you can use vid_soft 1 then vid_restart |
| 13:36 |
Obani |
RealBadAngel, thanks :D |
| 13:36 |
Calinou |
AndDT, my phone (2560×1440) can play Quake at 60 FPS with OpenGL ES 1.1 |
| 13:36 |
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| 13:37 |
Fixer |
why would you play Q1 on phone? |
| 13:37 |
Fixer |
you are some kind of mazo? |
| 13:37 |
Calinou |
I finished e1m1 in easy in 41 seconds |
| 13:37 |
Calinou |
1 kill, 0 secrets |
| 13:38 |
RealBadAngel |
Obani, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3038 |
| 13:40 |
Hirato |
lol |
| 13:41 |
Obani |
"For the record: I am against music in the engine. This should be provided by games, like the menu textures currently." |
| 13:41 |
Fixer |
guys that make custom maps for Duke Nukem are funny, to finish a map you need to find out switch combination... and there are ~50 of them %) |
| 13:41 |
Obani |
This is stupid |
| 13:41 |
Fixer |
music should be in games, yes |
| 13:41 |
Obani |
Fixer, no |
| 13:41 |
Fixer |
different game - different music |
| 13:41 |
Obani |
this is totally stupid |
| 13:41 |
Fixer |
why not? |
| 13:42 |
Obani |
5 musics = 1Gb loaded |
| 13:42 |
Obani |
WHen it comes from a mod |
| 13:42 |
Fixer |
o_0 |
| 13:42 |
Fixer |
1gb? |
| 13:42 |
Hirato |
lol, do they get decompressed in RAM permanently? |
| 13:42 |
Obani |
yes |
| 13:42 |
Fixer |
is it FLAC 92KHz or smth |
| 13:42 |
Obani |
all sounds are decompressed |
| 13:42 |
Hirato |
and are yours all 10 minute long 48kHZ files? |
| 13:42 |
Obani |
48kHz is awful to hear |
| 13:42 |
Fixer |
O_o |
| 13:43 |
Hirato |
lol |
| 13:43 |
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| 13:43 |
Hirato |
audiophile detected |
| 13:43 |
Obani |
To be listenable a music might be at least 112kb/s |
| 13:43 |
Obani |
My real musics are 336kb/s |
| 13:43 |
Hirato |
um... I said kHz |
| 13:43 |
Hirato |
do you know what frequency is |
| 13:43 |
Obani |
Oh |
| 13:43 |
Obani |
Yeah sorry |
| 13:43 |
Obani |
no sounds are 44,1kHz |
| 13:44 |
Hirato |
there'd have to be closer to an hour's worth for it to reach 1GB |
| 13:44 |
Obani |
48kHz is unefficient if you don't have a great sound equipment |
| 13:44 |
Obani |
And most of the players don't play with a great sound equipment |
| 13:44 |
Hirato |
48kHz seems pretty fine to me |
| 13:44 |
Obani |
Even those who have some use it not for gaming |
| 13:44 |
Hirato |
96kHZ or even 192kHz is where you need the good stuff |
| 13:45 |
Obani |
44,1kHz is good too |
| 13:45 |
Hirato |
that's just the quality they use for music CDs |
| 13:46 |
Obani |
And it's pretty nice |
| 13:46 |
Hirato |
I believe the reason is that it has a nyquist frequency of 22050Hz whereas the vast majority of humans can only hear frequencies under ~20KhZ |
| 13:46 |
RealBadAngel |
Obani, who told you that oggs get decompressed into RAM? |
| 13:47 |
Obani |
the server administrator I talked with/work with |
| 13:47 |
Obani |
When we had musics, at launch, the server took 3Gb,5 RAM |
| 13:47 |
Calinou |
lossless 16-bit 44100 Hz ought to be enough for everybody :P |
| 13:47 |
Hirato |
most engines would cache decompressed sound effects (since they get used heaps) and stream music |
| 13:47 |
Calinou |
if only it was actually lossless :p |
| 13:47 |
RealBadAngel |
that could be true only for WAV files |
| 13:48 |
Calinou |
anyway the difference is tiny between lossless FLAC and lossy Opus |
| 13:48 |
RealBadAngel |
openal decompress only a piece of a music file for playing into buffer |
| 13:48 |
Obani |
RealBadAngel, but those were all ogg |
| 13:48 |
kahrl_ |
the server doesn't even link against libogg/libvorbis, how could it decompress those files? |
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Telesight |
Hello all, is it "normal" that if a player builds above/in a big waterarea the cpu load is raised extra? |
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Fixer |
minetest is all about raised extra, don't worry :) |
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Telesight |
I did not know the difference would be this amount ... |
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MinetestBot |
[git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Don't compile pcgrandom on Windows 337c02c http://git.io/v8RkI (2015-11-08T18:26:20+01:00) |
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anotherPC |
why i am here? |
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swift110 |
hey all |
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Krock |
anotherPC, to read the boring and sometimes silly chat messages of other users |
| 17:52 |
anotherPC |
Krock: lol |
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MinetestBot |
[git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Some german translation improvements d657dce http://git.io/v8RHS (2015-11-08T20:42:38+01:00) |
| 19:44 |
MinetestBot |
[git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Russian translation: remove weird char aabdf80 http://git.io/v8RH9 (2015-11-08T20:41:57+01:00) |
| 19:44 |
MinetestBot |
[git] halmet94 gmail.com -> minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Russian) cefa5b3 http://git.io/v8RHQ (2015-11-08T18:40:23+01:00) |
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PilzAdam |
sfan5, ^ maybe at a limit for commits per second? |
| 19:45 |
PilzAdam |
s/at/add/ |
| 19:45 |
sfan5 |
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 19:45 |
est31 |
61 new commits |
| 19:45 |
est31 |
and I'll gonna add two more because its so much fun |
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| 19:59 |
reber |
hi all |
| 19:59 |
reber |
how to get a map of minetest in web format ? (zoomable) |
| 20:03 |
Calinou |
reber, use MTSatellite |
| 20:03 |
reber |
ok :) |
| 20:03 |
Calinou |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=170525 |
| 20:03 |
Calinou |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10278 |
| 20:04 |
anotherPC |
Satellite for minetest, wow ^_^ |
| 20:12 |
est31 |
or reber alternatively use https://github.com/est31/leaftest |
| 20:12 |
est31 |
it isnt live |
| 20:13 |
reber |
est31, "isn't live" ? |
| 20:13 |
reber |
"zoomable sloppy map." |
| 20:14 |
est31 |
reber, MTSattelite has a live mode |
| 20:14 |
est31 |
leaftest doesnt |
| 20:14 |
est31 |
but MTSattelite requires you to use mtredisalize |
| 20:14 |
reber |
if it's zoomable it's rather the same isn't it ? |
| 20:14 |
est31 |
this rewrites how blocks are written |
| 20:15 |
est31 |
well reber a live map has the advantage that you can see changes in real time |
| 20:15 |
reber |
oh ok :) |
| 20:15 |
est31 |
the moment sb builds |
| 20:15 |
est31 |
its online |
| 20:15 |
liq_ovr_ignore |
._. |
| 20:15 |
est31 |
if you need or want that, use MTsattelite |
| 20:16 |
est31 |
if you want it more aligned to minetest's official format, use leaftest |
| 20:16 |
reber |
ok. i hope to find "go" for armh ;) |
| 20:16 |
liq_ovr_ignore |
RealBadAngel: that is tooo much blur, like heavy myopia |
| 20:16 |
est31 |
leaftest has worse performance I think, but it still is fast. |
| 20:16 |
est31 |
you'll have to fiddle if you use leveldb |
| 20:17 |
est31 |
bc leveldb has very slow "get me a list of blocks" function |
| 20:17 |
est31 |
and leaftest calls that function for each and every tile |
| 20:21 |
MinetestBot |
[git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Settings tab: add v3f type 9a91f58 http://git.io/v8Rpy (2015-11-08T21:19:21+01:00) |
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MinetestBot |
[git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Run util/updatepo.sh d506d56 http://git.io/v80eW (2015-11-08T21:26:42+01:00) |
| 20:28 |
MinetestBot |
[git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Update minetest.conf.example and src/settings_translation_file.cpp 78caafb http://git.io/v80el (2015-11-08T21:23:09+01:00) |
| 20:35 |
RealBadAngel |
liq_ovr_ignore, that was just gimp and test how could it look like |
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| 20:42 |
liq_ovr_ignore |
personally, I disable blur in any game, yes, it looks bad |
| 20:44 |
liq_ovr_ignore |
RealBadAngel: any news on PR 3166? |
| 20:48 |
RealBadAngel |
liq_ovr_ignore, it was about blurring farmesh only |
| 20:48 |
RealBadAngel |
http://i.imgur.com/9JJYg7T.jpg vs https://imgrush.com/X6Zh5Z_DBJ_X.jpg |
| 20:54 |
liq_ovr_ignore |
exit due to storm |
| 20:55 |
liq_ovr_ignore |
RealBadAngel: non blurred is better, first one |
| 20:57 |
MinetestBot |
[git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Add LuaSecureRandom ad5ac39 http://git.io/v80Ik (2015-11-08T15:57:15-05:00) |
| 20:58 |
hmmmm |
the problem with RBA's blur filter is that it's just a blur over the whole image |
| 20:58 |
hmmmm |
that's stupid looking, I don't have eye problems |
| 20:58 |
est31 |
well I guess only the far stuff can be blurred |
| 20:59 |
hmmmm |
objects at a farther distance have more blur however, so if the blur only started applying to objects at a certain depth then that's fine |
| 20:59 |
hmmmm |
and then as they go further back the blur radius increases |
| 20:59 |
hmmmm |
depth blur is a common feature in games these days, anyway I thought that was quite obvious |
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| 21:00 |
PilzAdam |
proper depth of field could improve farmesh a lot |
| 21:00 |
hmmmm |
of course |
| 21:00 |
hmmmm |
this is clearly a shader thing though |
| 21:00 |
hmmmm |
probably should be committed separate from the new farmesh |
| 21:00 |
PilzAdam |
poor windows / directx users |
| 21:01 |
est31 |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=196094#p196094 |
| 21:02 |
PilzAdam |
est31, this is really badly done |
| 21:02 |
PilzAdam |
it doesn't look like tilt-shift at all |
| 21:04 |
est31 |
okay |
| 21:04 |
* est31 |
no gfx guy |
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hmmmm |
btw est did you see the print() regression |
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| 21:19 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
I have a question about cmake... how come the output doesn't say "LuaJIT enabled?" |
| 21:19 |
est31 |
hmmmm, yes |
| 21:19 |
hmmmm |
is it as trivial as i think it is? |
| 21:19 |
est31 |
yes. |
| 21:19 |
est31 |
I've commented on the issue |
| 21:20 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
Or an equivalent...? |
| 21:20 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
Ok, I see, thanks, est31. |
| 21:20 |
est31 |
JohnnyComeL8ly, ask ShadowNinja about it, he has cleaned up the build system. |
| 21:20 |
est31 |
feel free to fix it hmmmm. Or should I? |
| 21:20 |
hmmmm |
you do it, it's YOUR bug |
| 21:21 |
hmmmm |
yeah whoops I meant to say line feed. |
| 21:21 |
hmmmm |
i wrote carriage return on accident, don't misunderstand the issue |
| 21:24 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
blur is bad habit in games, don't use it, it looks cheap |
| 21:26 |
PilzAdam |
liq_ovr_ignore_b, motion blur is |
| 21:27 |
PilzAdam |
but depth of field is a) realistic and b) a good way for games to increase perceived viewing range in a rather cheap way |
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| 21:28 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
depth of field can be noticed if only you are standing up to 100cm from a wall and then background will blur slightly, in other situations it just does not matter, you don't have iron sights or whatever |
| 21:28 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
and MT is slow as a snail just now |
| 21:29 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
imagine what it will be with this blurs, depths stuff, it is already has bad-fps-stutter gameplay and fancy stuff will not fix it |
| 21:29 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
and farmesh is already "blurred" by definition, it is scale-down blocks :) |
| 21:29 |
PilzAdam |
blurring far away areas will actually increase the viewing range, since we have to render less detail |
| 21:30 |
PilzAdam |
so adding "fancy stuff" will actually increase "performance" |
| 21:30 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
why? it will lower the range, because from server workload "blur + farmesh" > farmesh |
| 21:31 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
do you believe in it? i only see slowdowns every release, every time it is even more lower fps and more stutters |
| 21:31 |
PilzAdam |
the server has nothing to do with client side FPS |
| 21:32 |
PilzAdam |
also this is not a matter of believing stuff |
| 21:32 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
why not fix that ghod-damned issues with fps-stutter and only after that add fancy stuff |
| 21:32 |
PilzAdam |
rendering less stuff will increase your FPS |
| 21:33 |
PilzAdam |
and farmesh renders less stuff |
| 21:33 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
RBA said server has influence on client's FPS |
| 21:33 |
PilzAdam |
I don't get why you think it decreases performance |
| 21:33 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
because you render more stuff with it? without it is just blocks that you see in your 35 nodes range or whatever you set |
| 21:34 |
slut4steam |
fucking steam is way too distracting |
| 21:34 |
PilzAdam |
you have a viewing range of 35 nodes? |
| 21:35 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
fixed at 60, but my fps can go very low with that, so 35 is optimal, right |
| 21:35 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
on ATI HD6870 *cough* |
| 21:35 |
MinetestBot |
[git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Fix misc. MinGW and Valgrind warnings 6f95bb1 http://git.io/v80sj (2015-11-08T16:34:56-05:00) |
| 21:35 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
liq_ovr_ignore_b, I think 30 fps is optimal. |
| 21:35 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
i need some Xeon + Titan to handle MT, looks like |
| 21:35 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
30 fps is baad |
| 21:35 |
PilzAdam |
I have about 100 nodes with a GTX 460 |
| 21:35 |
PilzAdam |
with 60 FPS |
| 21:36 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
PilzAdam, do you use Linux? |
| 21:36 |
PilzAdam |
sure |
| 21:36 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
you need at least 60 FPS for good gameplay |
| 21:36 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
With that setup, I mean. |
| 21:36 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
and 30 is just horrible |
| 21:36 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, sending whole blocks instead of single meta changes really decreases client performance |
| 21:36 |
PilzAdam |
liq_ovr_ignore_b, maybe something else in your setup is broken |
| 21:36 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
no |
| 21:37 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
everyone is complaining |
| 21:37 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
practically |
| 21:37 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
liq_ovr_ignore_b, I think you are mistaken... it isn't horrible... horrible is 15 fps. |
| 21:37 |
PilzAdam |
RealBadAngel, the server only has indirect influence onit |
| 21:37 |
RealBadAngel |
moving an item in a chest is causing mesh updates for center block and all it neighbours |
| 21:37 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
connect to Just Test and report your FPS on spawn *cough* |
| 21:37 |
PilzAdam |
RealBadAngel, a server owner can't tell the clients to lock their FPS at 30 |
| 21:37 |
RealBadAngel |
imagine now technic machines workin |
| 21:37 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
or LinuxGaming2 *cough* |
| 21:37 |
RealBadAngel |
that will kill fps easily |
| 21:37 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
I can have 60fps.... in a rock desert too |
| 21:38 |
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| 21:38 |
RealBadAngel |
that is what #3166 is all about |
| 21:38 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
i got 15 FPS on linux gaming 2 spawn |
| 21:39 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
yes |
| 21:39 |
PilzAdam |
liq_ovr_ignore_b, anyway, if you have a viewing range of 60 currently, you could (hypothetically, no actual data here) let farmesh start at 40 nodes range and you'd get an actual viewing range of 100 with the same FPS as currently |
| 21:39 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
admins starts working with vending machines, and everything goes into snail mode |
| 21:39 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
admin* |
| 21:40 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, this is will affect regular meshes or farmesh |
| 21:40 |
PilzAdam |
RealBadAngel, I cannot compute this sentence |
| 21:40 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
i consider 60 nodes pretty small view range, 100 + farmesh will be super good, but that needs GeForce Titan for MT to handle |
| 21:40 |
RealBadAngel |
simply all developed worlds, spawns especially suffer constant mesh regeneration |
| 21:41 |
PilzAdam |
liq_ovr_ignore_b, again, I have a GTX 460 |
| 21:41 |
PilzAdam |
that is far from a titan |
| 21:41 |
RealBadAngel |
and thats more visible weaker the client box |
| 21:41 |
RealBadAngel |
i mean less fps |
| 21:41 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
PilzAdam: don't get me wrong, if you have fresh world in singleplayer, i can get 120 fps easily (+lots of stutters), but in multiplayer... anything with a few houses decreses performance a lot |
| 21:42 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
and that crappy culing... |
| 21:42 |
RealBadAngel |
thats why VE spawns got a few FPS |
| 21:42 |
PilzAdam |
liq_ovr_ignore_b, but do you understand that farmesh will increase the perceived performance? |
| 21:42 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
looking at wall does not even increase your fps in most situations (in houses) %) |
| 21:42 |
RealBadAngel |
clients just got spammed with unnecesary mesh regen requests |
| 21:42 |
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| 21:43 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
PilzAdam: "perceived", yes |
| 21:43 |
PilzAdam |
RealBadAngel, why do you keep talking about this? this is not relevant currently |
| 21:43 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
i understand |
| 21:43 |
PilzAdam |
you just generating noise |
| 21:43 |
PilzAdam |
liq_ovr_ignore_b, good then |
| 21:44 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
it is just... on any server it is SLOW already, and farmesh will make it even slower :( but I do like how celeron's made it, I love it |
| 21:45 |
PilzAdam |
*sigh* why do you say again that farmesh will slow stuff down? |
| 21:45 |
PilzAdam |
I thought you just agreed that it doesn't |
| 21:45 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
it will add "view range" at the expanse of slowing down |
| 21:46 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
but it renders more stuff, how can it not lower your fps? |
| 21:46 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
imagine |
| 21:46 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
i have 60 nodes view with 60 fps on outskirts |
| 21:46 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
not i will have 60 nodes + farmesh > more rendering > lower fps |
| 21:46 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
now* |
| 21:47 |
PilzAdam |
farmesh would start at a lower range then you currently have |
| 21:47 |
PilzAdam |
so the amount of stuff you save there can be added as additional range |
| 21:47 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
okay, interesting to see it in real gameplay, 60 nodes is pretty close |
| 21:47 |
PilzAdam |
yeah, the actual detail on this needs to be actually tested |
| 21:47 |
PilzAdam |
but the idea should be clear |
| 21:48 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
i want the binary, i will compare fps when it is released |
| 21:48 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
what i don't see on this screenshots... is place of transition |
| 21:50 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
farmesh is cool thing, at least looking on screenshots, now we will have not just slow minetest, but slow minetest plus farmesh, that is good thing :) ._. |
| 21:50 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
i remember his first farmesh |
| 21:51 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
it was much more crappy and buggy |
| 21:51 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
and was 1% as good as it is a new one |
| 21:53 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
not related to minetest, this game has interesting rendering of far distances -> https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mZaRyqEnxqw/T60ZEn7gzpI/AAAAAAAACFU/LWFQoQ2g06g/s1600/project+igi+1+game+free+download+full+version+%283%29.jpg |
| 21:53 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
it is called Project I.G.I., I have it, it is from 2001 iirc |
| 21:53 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
what is interesting, is it can render huge valleys on GeForce 2MX card |
| 21:53 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, i recalled to prove that server has sometimes dramatical impact on clients performance |
| 21:54 |
RealBadAngel |
especially FPS |
| 21:54 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
RealBadAngel: will believe in it only after test myself |
| 21:55 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
i can capture vanessa's server spawn, install the mods, and check FPS/gameplay with patch and without it |
| 21:56 |
RealBadAngel |
theres nothing to believe: sending 200 bytes and no mesh regen for single meta change vs current approach: sending whole mapblock and 3x3 mabplock meshes regen |
| 21:56 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
RealBadAngel: why not commit? players will benefit a lot |
| 21:57 |
RealBadAngel |
i havent finished that commit yet theres lotsa to optimize still |
| 21:57 |
MinetestBot |
[git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Write new line character sequence at end of print() 4ae6e50 http://git.io/v80Wf (2015-11-08T22:56:56+01:00) |
| 21:58 |
est31 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b, it would be better to download the whole server instead of just the spawn |
| 21:58 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
also, somewhere, there was mentioned about occlusion per each block improvement |
| 21:58 |
est31 |
The link is http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/worlds/Survival_World.tar.bz2 |
| 21:58 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
hmm |
| 21:58 |
est31 |
and the mods are basically just dreambuilder_game |
| 21:58 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
nice |
| 21:59 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
i guess I will download it |
| 21:59 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
oh damned |
| 21:59 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
9Gb |
| 21:59 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
-_- |
| 21:59 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
spawn only, sorry, I have 2Mbit |
| 21:59 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
spawn + 200 nodes away radius can be good |
| 22:01 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
Project I.G.I. from 2001 renders huge areas that you can actually walk to, wonder how they did it, it looks so simple, yet nice |
| 22:03 |
* liq_ovr_ignore_b |
looks at Lighting bug with water #3004 |
| 22:04 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
also, that texture tear issue should be on high priority please, too much of it -> https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13500 |
| 22:07 |
rubenwardy |
liq_ovr_ignore_b, it's easy to render large amounts of height map terrain |
| 22:08 |
rubenwardy |
Nearly all rendering engines have level of detail for terrains |
| 22:12 |
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| 22:17 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
hope is not lost, btw, LinuxGaming now eats only 2 Gigabytes of RAM on 0.4.13, not 6GB as was earlier, fps looks lower though |
| 22:19 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
also, dynamic range finder is annoying for me too, too much fog problems with it |
| 22:20 |
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| 22:21 |
thefamilygrog66 |
howdy folks |
| 22:22 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
est31: i can confirm that water problem you having / Issue 3004 |
| 22:22 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
thefamilygrog66, howdy! |
| 22:23 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
liq_ovr_ignore_b: tested on one of the latest Krock builds, I have this problem with bucket too |
| 22:24 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
liq_ovr_ignore_b, you should have a linux distro that you use to build MT from source. |
| 22:24 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
i have Win 7 |
| 22:25 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
I don't use Luz 7. |
| 22:25 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
;-D |
| 22:25 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
it is tolerable, next ones are crap |
| 22:26 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
Same sentiments. |
| 22:27 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
est31: reproduced -> https://i.imgur.com/XfkcEZu.png |
| 22:27 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
I don't have to use Win, so that's a win win. |
| 22:27 |
* thefamilygrog66 |
uses both windows and linux |
| 22:28 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
thefamilygrog66 should finish migrating.... ;-) |
| 22:28 |
* thefamilygrog66 |
needs to keep his job, but uses linux at home, haha |
| 22:31 |
* JohnnyComeL8ly |
understands now! |
| 22:31 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
wonder, how much cpu time that new mesh will use, what max_lag we will see |
| 22:32 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
I do like 98se/nt4/2000/xp/7... but next ones are not good, too much tablet and fancy |
| 22:32 |
thefamilygrog66 |
I have a bit of a strange issue: my server appears in the server list, and there are players currently on it, but my client times out when trying to connect to it. If I remotely connect to the computer running it, and stop and restart the server from there, I can then log in. Any ideas? |
| 22:33 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
i've heared about that on other servers too |
| 22:33 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
i don't think there are any players actually playing on it |
| 22:33 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
it is server freeze |
| 22:33 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
probably |
| 22:34 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
it just stops responding |
| 22:34 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
you can't connect, and people that are connected are not playing it either |
| 22:35 |
thefamilygrog66 |
That's part of the strangeness of it all: I can ftp to the debug log, and the server is still running. |
| 22:35 |
thefamilygrog66 |
I suspected the frozen part too, but there is definitely still activity on there up to the minute. |
| 22:37 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
it feels like at some point max_lag scyrockets and server starts to work sloooowly, and people time out |
| 22:37 |
thefamilygrog66 |
I'm still running 0.4.11-dev, so updating might help I think. |
| 22:39 |
thefamilygrog66 |
Would one of you mind trying to log in, to see if you can connect? |
| 22:39 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
thefamilygrog66, I'm thinking so! You should be aware of the "strict protocol" checks which 0.4.13 enforces though... you can't connect with a 0.4.12 client. |
| 22:39 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
thefamilygrog66, sure, which server? |
| 22:39 |
thefamilygrog66 |
darkside.zapto.org:30003 |
| 22:40 |
thefamilygrog66 |
Is it not still possible to toggle the strict protocol in 0.4.13? |
| 22:40 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
thefamilygrog66, I'm not sure. |
| 22:41 |
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| 22:41 |
thefamilygrog66 |
Okay, I know it's a setting in the config file for older versions, anyway. |
| 22:42 |
thefamilygrog66 |
Were you able to connect, JohnnyComeL8ly? |
| 22:47 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
Sorry, my dad needed help with his PC.... |
| 22:48 |
est31 |
what the hell |
| 22:48 |
est31 |
strict protocol checking is changeable in 0.4.13 |
| 22:48 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
est31, sorry didn't know if it was. |
| 22:49 |
est31 |
its called strict_protocol_version_checking |
| 22:49 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
thefamilygrog66, It keeps saying "Connection timed out." |
| 22:49 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
est31, boolean? |
| 22:49 |
est31 |
yes |
| 22:49 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
Ok. |
| 22:51 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
I had heard from LazyJ that you had to have 0.4.13 or it wouldn't work... I suppose he didn't know about that option. |
| 22:53 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
Honestly, I don't see a need to change that option... ppl should be upgrading their software. |
| 22:55 |
thefamilygrog66 |
They should in an ideal world, though more and more are playing on iOS and Android devices, which tend to stray behind |
| 22:56 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
Those "devices" are part of the problem in every situation... if Android were more open in philosophy, then it wouldn't be such a problem. |
| 22:57 |
thefamilygrog66 |
True enough |
| 22:57 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
I'm not sure, but NDK could be a solution to bypass the Java nonsense. |
| 22:57 |
thefamilygrog66 |
I find it nearly impossible to play on my phone/tablet anyway, though I'm old. |
| 22:58 |
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| 22:59 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
Fruit Ninja, etc... is all that a tablet is good for. Unless there is proper keyboard and mouse support for such a game. |
| 22:59 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
Or a gamepad. |
| 23:00 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
But, I like PC gaming best. |
| 23:00 |
Viper168 |
shame they don't make a game console/cell phone, you could talk on it as if it were a taco perhaps |
| 23:01 |
liq_ovr_ignore_b |
anyone used /emergeblocks? |
| 23:01 |
Viper168 |
god did |
| 23:01 |
Viper168 |
when he created the universe |
| 23:02 |
Viper168 |
he said "let there be blocks" (and did /emergeblocks), and there were blocks |
| 23:02 |
thefamilygrog66 |
mmm...tacos |
| 23:02 |
Viper168 |
I guess a lot of people here may be too young to know the n-gage and taco talkin |
| 23:04 |
Viper168 |
it's a shame they don't incorporate cellphone function into some of those new boards |
| 23:04 |
Viper168 |
like pi, minnowboard, etc.. |
| 23:04 |
est31 |
it would require to lock down the firmware |
| 23:04 |
est31 |
and make them more expensive |
| 23:04 |
Viper168 |
could make your own cellphone/game device |
| 23:04 |
est31 |
so its not done |
| 23:04 |
Viper168 |
it would make those ones more expensive |
| 23:05 |
Viper168 |
you can separate it on the board |
| 23:05 |
Viper168 |
lock down the firmware on the phone part |
| 23:05 |
Viper168 |
leave the rest open |
| 23:05 |
thefamilygrog66 |
I remember seeing a picture of the n-gage. It was a nokia, wasn't it? |
| 23:05 |
Viper168 |
yup |
| 23:05 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
But, then you still have proprietary stuff. |
| 23:05 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
Viper168, ^^ |
| 23:06 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
Unless it is a ROM-R |
| 23:06 |
Viper168 |
sometimes things don't always work out perfect |
| 23:06 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
If that makes sense. |
| 23:06 |
Viper168 |
sometimes compromise is necessary |
| 23:06 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
Viper168, Is it possible to make it impossible to write a ROM chip? |
| 23:07 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
I'm thinking not. |
| 23:07 |
thefamilygrog66 |
I still have my old Nokia 6600 kicking around somewhere |
| 23:07 |
Viper168 |
JohnnyComeL8ly, as much as you can with a cell phone |
| 23:07 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
thefamilygrog66, I have an iPod 2g |
| 23:07 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
It is in "slavery." |
| 23:07 |
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| 23:08 |
Viper168 |
the phone part of the device needn't any direct access to that hardware even |
| 23:08 |
Viper168 |
just have it send/receive commands from the computer portion of the board |
| 23:08 |
thefamilygrog66 |
I found my old Creative Zen Stone the other day. I remember it sounding good at the time anyway... |
| 23:09 |
Viper168 |
whatever interface you give it being programmed to send and receive the appropriate responses, your own phone firmware handling calls and such would not reside in the phone part |
| 23:11 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
Viper168, Oh, I see. |
| 23:12 |
Viper168 |
I'm sure it will eventually come to being |
| 23:13 |
Viper168 |
but not soon enough for my liking, cheaply enough for my liking |
| 23:14 |
JohnnyComeL8ly |
lol yeah |
| 23:14 |
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| 23:14 |
Viper168 |
the way these boards are progressing into real powerful tiny mobile pcs practically, I don't doubt there will be increasing options for using them in communications devices |
| 23:15 |
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| 23:15 |
Glorfindel |
where does the executable for minetest-mapper reside in ubuntu? |
| 23:17 |
thefamilygrog66 |
the folder for minetestmapper is in my home folder, Glorfindel |
| 23:17 |
Glorfindel |
ok, I'll look there |
| 23:18 |
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Puka joined #minetest |
| 23:18 |
thefamilygrog66 |
Glorfindel, the C++ version right? |
| 23:18 |
Glorfindel |
IDK, I'll check |
| 23:19 |
Glorfindel |
I think so |
| 23:20 |
Glorfindel |
I can't find it in there |
| 23:33 |
MinetestBot |
[git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Add errno to socket creation failed exception 88a3977 http://git.io/v80Dr (2015-11-08T18:16:02-05:00) |
