| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:23 |
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| 01:42 |
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| 01:43 |
Undertaker |
hello! |
| 01:43 |
Undertaker |
someone ? |
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| 02:01 |
OldCoder |
Three words for a mod |
| 02:01 |
OldCoder |
just three words I heard just now |
| 02:01 |
OldCoder |
|
| 02:01 |
OldCoder |
"NPC Dance Party" |
| 02:01 |
OldCoder |
|
| 02:04 |
Undertaker |
I need report a bug in the mod plantlife |
| 02:06 |
Undertaker |
I have a server in Minetest and I tested the grass of plantlife, if you put flame in one grass you will get a infinity flames destructing the world |
| 02:07 |
Undertaker |
the flame do not stop to spread |
| 02:07 |
Undertaker |
the solution would be for the grass only burn the block where he is |
| 02:09 |
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| 02:11 |
Undertaker |
print of test http://i.imgur.com/cjTwVie.png |
| 02:16 |
Wayward_Tab |
Undertaker: does it spread slowly, or is it instant? |
| 02:16 |
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| 02:17 |
Undertaker |
is very fast |
| 02:18 |
Wayward_Tab |
Hmm |
| 02:18 |
Wayward_Tab |
I don't know what would cause that |
| 02:20 |
Undertaker |
yes, I tried also |
| 02:21 |
Wayward_Tab |
VanessaE may be able to help more than me though |
| 02:22 |
Undertaker |
yes maybe, thanks |
| 02:22 |
Wayward_Tab |
Also, you could try filing an issue on the mod's GitHub page: https://github.com/VanessaE/plantlife_modpack/issues |
| 02:24 |
Undertaker |
OK I will report it |
| 02:43 |
Undertaker |
https://github.com/VanessaE/plantlife_modpack/issues/51 |
| 02:56 |
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| 03:49 |
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| 04:03 |
Wayward_Tab |
O.o |
| 04:03 |
Wayward_Tab |
I now get a 403 error when trying to report a post on the forum |
| 04:07 |
Wayward_Tab |
On a similar note, spam seems just as prevalent as before |
| 04:07 |
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| 06:59 |
VanessaE |
Wayward_Tab: should be all cleaned up now. |
| 07:05 |
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| 08:45 |
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| 08:45 |
ishands-me |
I recently downloaded sfan5's 64-bit minetest build |
| 08:45 |
ishands-me |
When I get to the world name area, I keep typing but letters don't appear |
| 08:46 |
ishands-me |
This problem seems to be windows 8.1 specific. Both me and my friend are having this problem |
| 08:46 |
Calinou |
ishands-me, does it occur with other buildS? |
| 08:46 |
Calinou |
does it occur with the official 0.4.12 build? |
| 08:47 |
ishands-me |
I'll have to check. wait |
| 08:48 |
celeron55 |
Wayward_Tab: noted and that 403 is now gone |
| 08:51 |
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| 08:52 |
ishands-me |
BTW Calinou, why did you take mesecons out of Carbone? |
| 08:55 |
ishands-me |
Okay. On the official builds, the cursor moves when I type, but I can't see any of the letters |
| 08:55 |
ishands-me |
Copy pasting works fine on both builds and I can see the letters |
| 08:55 |
sfan5 |
I'll make a new build |
| 08:55 |
sfan5 |
maybe that fixes it |
| 08:56 |
ishands-me |
^ I can reproduce 90% of the problem on the official builds too |
| 08:57 |
ishands-me |
My friend has had this problem for a pretty long time. I recently got 8.1 and am having it now |
| 09:00 |
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| 09:01 |
ishands-me |
I think it has something to do with locale |
| 09:03 |
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| 09:04 |
ishands-me |
Okay. While playing, I can't press WASD + space. ESC does not work |
| 09:04 |
ishands-me |
I can reproduce this error with 3 keyboards |
| 09:15 |
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| 09:36 |
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| 09:38 |
celeron55 |
okay forum will be randomly broken for an hour or so now because phpbb sucks and i can't bother setting up a second instance just to allow me to execute its stupid install scripts from a browser away from the live version |
| 09:39 |
celeron55 |
enjoy and go blame them |
| 09:53 |
celeron55 |
yeah i'm pretty sure this thing is full of all kinds of vulnerabilities; i might as well just release the full code and database to the public... |
| 09:58 |
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| 09:58 |
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| 10:01 |
celeron55 |
oh nice, now the style exploded |
| 10:02 |
celeron55 |
what the fuck man |
| 10:02 |
celeron55 |
this isn't even funny |
| 10:04 |
celeron55 |
i guess we'll enjoy this random mix-up then |
| 10:05 |
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| 10:05 |
celeron55 |
i'm going to replace phpbb with something else on the absolute first chance i get |
| 10:06 |
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| 10:09 |
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| 10:09 |
technomancy |
it's really a shame there's no decent free software mailing list hosts available |
| 10:09 |
technomancy |
github does everything for you except that |
| 10:10 |
celeron55 |
we have this, hosted by ShadowNinja: http://lists.minetest.net/listinfo/minetest-dev |
| 10:10 |
celeron55 |
we could have a user list but i don't think most users prefer a mailing list at all |
| 10:11 |
celeron55 |
the -dev list is pretty much dead since it was created too probably due to too many other discussion channels |
| 10:11 |
sfan5 |
<celeron55> i'm going to replace phpbb with something else on the absolute first chance i get |
| 10:11 |
sfan5 |
please do |
| 10:11 |
technomancy |
I'm hardly a representative user, but I prefer something written in not-PHP to something written in PHP =) |
| 10:12 |
celeron55 |
sfan5: it will probably have worse spam protection and less features. but it won't be phpbb so that will be great |
| 10:13 |
sfan5 |
at least it won't be phpbb |
| 10:13 |
technomancy |
you can have mailing lists that are as nice to use as forums, like 5-years-ago google groups |
| 10:13 |
technomancy |
before it started it's cycle of self-immolation |
| 10:17 |
|
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| 10:19 |
celeron55 |
now forum.minetest.net uses the projecthoneypot.org IP blacklist |
| 10:20 |
CWz |
view online players seems to forbidding(error 403) now |
| 10:20 |
CWz |
*users |
| 10:21 |
celeron55 |
(and also a big bunch of blacklists that don't need registration) |
| 10:21 |
celeron55 |
CWz: link? |
| 10:22 |
celeron55 |
oh viewonline.php |
| 10:22 |
CWz |
yes |
| 10:25 |
|
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| 10:26 |
celeron55 |
i can't make this theme work |
| 10:26 |
celeron55 |
this is ridiculous |
| 10:26 |
celeron55 |
it just won't work |
| 10:28 |
Calinou |
how about Discourse? NodeBB? |
| 10:28 |
Calinou |
FlaskBB? |
| 10:28 |
celeron55 |
wait lol actually i broke uploaded files too |
| 10:29 |
celeron55 |
and profile images |
| 10:29 |
celeron55 |
well this isn't going too well |
| 10:30 |
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| 10:32 |
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| 10:35 |
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| 10:35 |
sfan5 |
Calinou: "FlaskBB is not yet stable so changes might occur without warning." |
| 10:37 |
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| 10:37 |
Calinou |
any software is like that :P |
| 10:38 |
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| 10:38 |
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| 10:40 |
celeron55 |
asd |
| 10:40 |
celeron55 |
-asd |
| 10:40 |
celeron55 |
https://forum.minetest.net/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12611 |
| 10:41 |
Calinou |
https://libraries.io/ |
| 10:41 |
Calinou |
whoa |
| 10:42 |
celeron55 |
one of the stupid things that also happened is that i updated the forum to phpbb 3.0.14 - but for whatever reason the forum still thinks it's 3.0.12 |
| 10:42 |
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| 10:42 |
celeron55 |
and now i'm very confused about what went wrong |
| 10:43 |
sfan5 |
maybe click this recheck-version button thing |
| 10:43 |
sfan5 |
wait what |
| 10:44 |
sfan5 |
celeron55: also https://forum.minetest.net/forum2/adm/index.php?i=update&mode=version_check gives some php error |
| 10:45 |
someguy_irc |
oh I finally see celeron55 on here o-o, Hi. |
| 10:45 |
sfan5 |
oh god what |
| 10:45 |
sfan5 |
who designed this |
| 10:46 |
sfan5 |
the report button looks very out of place considering all other buttons |
| 10:46 |
sfan5 |
https://forum.minetest.net/styles/prosilver/imageset/icon_post_report_spam.gif vs. https://forum.minetest.net/styles/prosilver/imageset/en/icon_post_edit.gif |
| 10:50 |
|
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| 10:52 |
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| 10:56 |
celeron55 |
i think i'll redo the mod installation on top of the previous version and then absolutely never touch anything again |
| 10:59 |
celeron55 |
haha, now the whole forum is unaccessible including the admin pages as something went even more wrong with styles |
| 11:00 |
celeron55 |
it's fucked |
| 11:01 |
celeron55 |
i guess i need to go manually edit some database table now |
| 11:01 |
sfan5 |
huh? |
| 11:01 |
sfan5 |
the admin pages works for me |
| 11:01 |
celeron55 |
umm |
| 11:02 |
sfan5 |
and shift+f5 does not break it |
| 11:02 |
celeron55 |
well how about not logging out and changing the theme for me to something that works |
| 11:02 |
celeron55 |
assuming you can |
| 11:02 |
CWz |
who knew that installing a plugin could get this messy |
| 11:02 |
celeron55 |
i knew |
| 11:03 |
celeron55 |
this is why i didn't want to do this |
| 11:03 |
sfan5 |
You tried to manage a user with founder status. Only founders are allowed to manage other founders. |
| 11:03 |
sfan5 |
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 11:03 |
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| 11:06 |
celeron55 |
now i need to figure out in which table are these theme things set |
| 11:08 |
Taoki |
Cool... someone managed to break or hack the Minetest forums... |
| 11:08 |
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| 11:09 |
Taoki |
(not really, just pointing out they're broken) |
| 11:09 |
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| 11:09 |
celeron55 |
maybe you should read like 2 lines upward |
| 11:09 |
yang2003 |
Hi |
| 11:10 |
Taoki |
Ah, sorry |
| 11:10 |
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| 11:10 |
celeron55 |
well now it uses the phpbb default theme |
| 11:10 |
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| 11:10 |
celeron55 |
i'm not going to touch it anymore |
| 11:11 |
Taoki |
Yeah, shift + refresh works. And nice... looks ok :) |
| 11:12 |
Taoki |
Still no smiley support though... damn :P |
| 11:14 |
celeron55 |
foruum smileys and long forum signatures are the cancer of the internet |
| 11:14 |
celeron55 |
-u |
| 11:15 |
Taoki |
Agreed about the second thing. |
| 11:16 |
kilbith |
i've not followed everything but does the spam preventing is strong now ? |
| 11:16 |
celeron55 |
it should be |
| 11:16 |
celeron55 |
it's a bit hard to tell immediately 8) |
| 11:16 |
kilbith |
ok, that's the most important |
| 11:20 |
celeron55 |
can someone tell me what theme is now in use for users? is it the broken minetest theme or the phpbb prosilver theme? |
| 11:20 |
Taoki |
Yep. Thankfully I haven't seen any spam on the MT forums so far. But I imagine there was some |
| 11:20 |
celeron55 |
removing spam has been pretty much a daily task for moderators for months now |
| 11:20 |
celeron55 |
so it has been pretty bad |
| 11:20 |
kilbith |
i still see prosilver actually |
| 11:20 |
Taoki |
Ouch :( |
| 11:21 |
Taoki |
Yeah, people register spam bots manually nowadays, since automatically it's no longer possible. |
| 11:21 |
Taoki |
celeron55: Default phpbb theme it seems... the one with blue |
| 11:22 |
Taoki |
Personally I think it looks good like this. BUT, that it should have a more mine-testy background of sorts. |
| 11:22 |
kilbith |
for change the theme : https://lut.im/hsgaForn/h5Mbsc5p |
| 11:23 |
kilbith |
at least the MT logo and back link to the main page |
| 11:23 |
Taoki |
Ah, nice. |
| 11:27 |
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| 11:29 |
Taoki |
The forum is working unusually slowly right now for some reason |
| 11:34 |
* Taoki |
agrees the Minetest Maintheme is a better default though. |
| 11:34 |
Taoki |
Oh nice, that one changed too actually. Closer to the default theme but adapted to Minetest. I like! |
| 11:35 |
celeron55 |
the thing is, it's not working properly |
| 11:35 |
celeron55 |
the mix is completely arbitrary |
| 11:35 |
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| 11:36 |
Taoki |
Ah. I see a few issues with the header... nothing major thankfully |
| 11:40 |
celeron55 |
whew |
| 11:40 |
celeron55 |
now the style works as before |
| 11:41 |
celeron55 |
this for sure is messed up; it's missing some files and then phpbb uses the files from whatever theme was used previously |
| 11:41 |
celeron55 |
and it's a mess |
| 11:41 |
Taoki |
Yeah, old theme looking good again now |
| 11:41 |
sfan5 |
way nicer than the prosilver theme or the minetest-prosilver-mix theme |
| 11:43 |
Taoki |
A shame that I have to die so young, and so painfully. But I will say: A theme similar to the Minecraft forum might not be bad :) (as in something that looks a bit brighter and happier, and better captures the theme of Minetest) |
| 11:44 |
celeron55 |
wait, something is wrong though; why is this still showing the phpbb prosilver theme when one isn't logged in?! |
| 11:44 |
celeron55 |
i already set the different default style |
| 11:45 |
celeron55 |
this makes no sense |
| 11:51 |
Taoki |
celeron55: For the Minetest Maintheme, can you make the background static as you scroll? I kinda like it when forums have a parallax effect, and it shouldn't annoy anyone. |
| 11:52 |
Calinou |
fixed background is not parallax |
| 11:52 |
Calinou |
parallax is a JS solution that is slow and annoys everyone; using a fixed background doesn't require JavaScript and isn't slow |
| 11:53 |
Taoki |
Ah. Yeah I meant fixed as in to the view, not scrolling with it. I thought that's a basic html 3 / 4 feature... and from what I know it's a style element. |
| 11:53 |
celeron55 |
now i managed to set the guest style |
| 11:53 |
celeron55 |
and no, no changes anymore |
| 11:54 |
Taoki |
So it doesn't require JS. Only gradual parallax does. |
| 11:54 |
Taoki |
Ok |
| 11:57 |
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| 11:59 |
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| 12:18 |
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| 12:22 |
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| 12:35 |
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| 12:36 |
TheWild |
what is CONTROLTYPE_DISCO for? Discovery? Disconnect? |
| 12:41 |
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| 12:46 |
kilbith |
c55: if it's not too much for you, can you apply this please ? https://github.com/minetest/forum.minetest.net_template1/pull/6 |
| 12:47 |
sfan5 |
TheWild: disconnect |
| 12:47 |
sfan5 |
kilbith: tip: c55 probably does not highlight him |
| 12:47 |
kilbith |
pinging c55 may be dangereous 8) |
| 12:49 |
Jordach |
c55 only hands out ass kickings, not code 8) |
| 12:54 |
celeron55 |
i assume it works and will just merge it |
| 12:54 |
celeron55 |
should be there now |
| 12:57 |
kilbith |
thanks |
| 13:00 |
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| 13:00 |
celeron55 |
i wonder if i should add the missing prosilver files to that repo... |
| 13:00 |
celeron55 |
i guess it won't hurt and they should have been there to begin with |
| 13:01 |
celeron55 |
well, maybe some other day |
| 13:05 |
Taoki |
celeron55: Oh... if you're taking a look at PR's, maybe you can merge this too please: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2372 |
| 13:06 |
Taoki |
Fixes some issues with model animation. People confirmed it works fine. |
| 13:09 |
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| 13:20 |
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| 13:20 |
Junko |
Calinou; :D |
| 13:29 |
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| 13:31 |
Taoki |
I've been having a curiosity: Has anyne so far tried using Mapgen V7 schematic decorations to generate villages? Yes, I know it's probably really bad... I'd like to know for an own project however. |
| 13:37 |
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| 13:40 |
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| 13:42 |
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| 13:48 |
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| 14:05 |
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| 14:05 |
Dave66 |
hi |
| 14:06 |
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| 14:10 |
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| 14:15 |
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| 14:23 |
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| 14:27 |
RealBadAngel |
Taoki, your pr havent passed anroid builds? |
| 14:27 |
Taoki |
Huh. I didn't do anything that should affect that |
| 14:27 |
Taoki |
Ah, perhaps the Irrlicht version thing |
| 14:30 |
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| 14:31 |
RealBadAngel |
or client/server |
| 14:32 |
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| 14:36 |
majner |
Hi |
| 14:38 |
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| 14:41 |
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| 14:41 |
poweroverwhelmin |
Hi |
| 14:41 |
sfan5 |
hi |
| 14:42 |
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| 14:42 |
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| 14:42 |
poweroverwhelmin |
I have question about run Minetest on Windows XP. Whean I try to run minetest.exe I have message, like this: Problem with this application and needs to close. Can I run Minetest on WinXP? |
| 14:42 |
sfan5 |
where did you download minetest |
| 14:42 |
poweroverwhelmin |
On Ubuntu Minetest works great |
| 14:43 |
poweroverwhelmin |
http://www.minetest.net/download |
| 14:43 |
sfan5 |
so the msvc version |
| 14:43 |
sfan5 |
poweroverwhelmin: can you try downloading the mingw version (right below "MinGW builds:") |
| 14:44 |
poweroverwhelmin |
ok |
| 14:45 |
poweroverwhelmin |
stan5 it's the same |
| 14:46 |
poweroverwhelmin |
Last log message it's: Resizing WIndow (800 600) |
| 14:52 |
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| 14:54 |
Amaz |
poweroverwhelmin, try this build:https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=9515&p=181227#p181227 |
| 14:56 |
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| 14:58 |
Calinou |
hi Junko |
| 14:59 |
poweroverwhelmin |
Amaz, Application file not found: MSVCR100.dll |
| 15:00 |
* Amaz |
shrugs |
| 15:00 |
Amaz |
Sorry, I can't really help. I use linux. |
| 15:01 |
Amaz |
I just know that those builds are compiled on XP |
| 15:01 |
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| 15:03 |
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| 15:11 |
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| 15:11 |
poweroverwhelmin |
Ok, thanks for help. I must restart Computer. I just installed Microsoft Visual C + + 2010 Redistributable Package and now Minetest start but only main window. When I clict somwere Minetest crashed |
| 15:19 |
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| 15:26 |
TheWild |
are there plans to implement client-side scripting? |
| 15:26 |
VanessaE |
yes, eventually |
| 15:27 |
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| 15:27 |
TheWild |
how far is the idea developed? (idea, not the actual code) |
| 15:28 |
TheWild |
e.g. deeper thoughts, concepts, principles, things we should avoid etc. |
| 15:28 |
VanessaE |
not sure. |
| 15:28 |
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| 15:31 |
Calinou |
maybe when France gets a new president |
| 15:35 |
VanessaE |
there IS rudimentary client-side scripting already, but it's very limited and only works in the main menu |
| 15:47 |
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| 16:06 |
mattminer4 |
Can anyone help me find the install directory for minetest on my linux machine? |
| 16:07 |
mattminer4 |
I need help finding a config file in my minetest directory |
| 16:09 |
VanessaE |
~/.minetest/minetest.conf |
| 16:09 |
VanessaE |
if you installed minetest globally/non-portable |
| 16:10 |
mattminer4 |
on my linux Ubuntu machine I installed it from the command like with "sudo apt-get install minetest" |
| 16:10 |
mattminer4 |
from the command line |
| 16:10 |
VanessaE |
then that ^^^ is where it'll be |
| 16:11 |
mattminer4 |
where the apt-get command is in Ubuntu? |
| 16:11 |
VanessaE |
no, as above |
| 16:11 |
VanessaE |
~/.minetest/minetest.conf |
| 16:12 |
VanessaE |
i.e. <your homedir>/.minetest/minetest.conf |
| 16:12 |
mattminer4 |
ok thanks I did see that when I did the "ls -a" command in the CLI |
| 16:13 |
VanessaE |
it won't exist until you run minetest for the first time |
| 16:13 |
mattminer4 |
Okay |
| 16:14 |
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| 16:14 |
mattminer4 |
I would like to enable the noclip and/or the fly features to help me when I am building bridges |
| 16:14 |
VanessaE |
you do those things in-game |
| 16:14 |
VanessaE |
not in your conf |
| 16:15 |
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| 16:15 |
VanessaE |
just start minetest, /grant singleplayer all |
| 16:15 |
VanessaE |
then press 'k' to enable flying. 'h' to toggle noclip |
| 16:18 |
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| 16:35 |
TheWild |
my few words about client side scripting: http://pastebin.com/8zCUZUUp |
| 16:35 |
TheWild |
of course, os.* deserves banishment in this area |
| 16:36 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: ^^^ |
| 16:37 |
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| 16:45 |
est31 |
TheWild, unfortunately it doesnt work that way |
| 16:46 |
est31 |
minetest.clientside_execute |
| 16:46 |
est31 |
can only take a string, no "function" |
| 16:46 |
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| 16:46 |
est31 |
its of no use if its already parsed by lua on the server side |
| 16:46 |
est31 |
same for minetest.clientside_bind |
| 16:46 |
est31 |
ah you want to send bytecode |
| 16:47 |
est31 |
bytecode is bad |
| 16:47 |
TheWild |
why? |
| 16:50 |
est31 |
its against the open source nature of minetest |
| 16:51 |
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| 16:55 |
TheWild |
We won't do this because est31 said its against the open source nature of minetest. Same with passing through walls when lagging - we won't fix this because est31 said it's essentially DRM. |
| 16:55 |
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| 16:55 |
Felix___ |
hi |
| 16:56 |
Felix___ |
a simple question, how can I get minetest to run in english on windows? |
| 16:56 |
Felix___ |
my system language is english but I'm getting estonian for some reason |
| 16:57 |
Felix___ |
probably becused of teh keyboard layout used, im suspecting |
| 16:59 |
est31 |
TheWild, other people share my opinions |
| 16:59 |
est31 |
like for the wall-lagging situation |
| 16:59 |
TheWild |
We have lot of mods for minetest, all of them are server-side and all (?) of them are open source. If someone wants to make his own mods on his own server and keep the code closed - I see no problem, it's his own interest. |
| 17:00 |
est31 |
I think yesterday I've read sokomine in the forums saying that when you dont want people to enter your buildings, you should play singleplayer |
| 17:00 |
est31 |
also what I think |
| 17:00 |
est31 |
TheWild, yes they can keep the server side code closed |
| 17:00 |
est31 |
but at least you can see which code they used |
| 17:01 |
est31 |
or whether they modified an open source mode |
| 17:01 |
TheWild |
(= it's better to write own server to get rid of the issue) |
| 17:01 |
est31 |
discuss this with Calinou. |
| 17:02 |
TheWild |
I can write my own mods and not releasing the source, can't I? |
| 17:02 |
nore |
Felix___: build minetest without -DENABLE_GETTEXT |
| 17:02 |
TheWild |
generally I see no point of not releasing the source but just example |
| 17:02 |
est31 |
yes TheWild you can chose to not release the src |
| 17:02 |
Felix___ |
nore: thats the only option? |
| 17:03 |
nore |
TheWild: yes, you can, although people would like you to :) |
| 17:03 |
est31 |
but at least clientside the source should be known |
| 17:03 |
nore |
Felix___, ah, IIRC there is a setting too |
| 17:03 |
est31 |
you can still write a "lua-minifier" |
| 17:03 |
Taoki |
Hey there. I'm trying to define my own biomes for mgv7. However, for some reason, I still get builtin biomes which I did not define in my lua file. Anyone know what can be causing this conflict? |
| 17:04 |
est31 |
that "protects your 'IP'" |
| 17:04 |
TheWild |
yeah, yeah... loadstring(' some binary crap here ')() |
| 17:04 |
nore |
try adding "language = en" in minetest.cong |
| 17:04 |
nore |
s/cong/conf/ |
| 17:04 |
Taoki |
This is my simple test file, do I need anything more? http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=w1jZrf9L |
| 17:04 |
Taoki |
Why do I get sand or water with this? |
| 17:05 |
* Felix___ |
fixed it by deleting everything but .localeuk |
| 17:05 |
nore |
it works too :) |
| 17:05 |
Taoki |
BTW: This is inspired from https://github.com/PilzAdam/nodetopia/blob/master/mods/base/mapgen.lua |
| 17:05 |
Felix___ |
yeah, thanks for the advice though. :) |
| 17:06 |
nore |
ehm... it looks like ok != english |
| 17:06 |
nore |
s/ok/uk |
| 17:06 |
est31 |
TheWild, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/990a96578f20244626b6b9f67f8e79a7e2e614ea/src/script/cpp_api/s_security.cpp#L494 |
| 17:06 |
est31 |
and security *is* enabled for clienside scripting, with no option to disable |
| 17:06 |
TheWild |
est31, if we don't like bytecode, text should work too |
| 17:06 |
est31 |
? |
| 17:07 |
TheWild |
minetest.clientside_bind(10, "function(payload) ... end") |
| 17:08 |
nore |
Felix___: try to delete *everything* in locale |
| 17:08 |
est31 |
yea |
| 17:08 |
est31 |
I had something else in mind |
| 17:08 |
est31 |
you have a subdirectory of your mod |
| 17:09 |
est31 |
and all the lua files in there get sent to the client on startup |
| 17:09 |
Taoki |
Anyone have any thoughts? Why do I still get water, sand, etc. with that file alone? Shouldn't I simply have only one biome? |
| 17:09 |
est31 |
or login |
| 17:09 |
est31 |
then they get parsed and loaded |
| 17:09 |
est31 |
on the client |
| 17:09 |
TheWild |
hah, sounds good |
| 17:09 |
est31 |
and dont have to be get parsed when you dont have time for it |
| 17:10 |
est31 |
but hmmmm does it not me |
| 17:10 |
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| 17:10 |
TheWild |
why? |
| 17:10 |
est31 |
because he wanted to do it |
| 17:10 |
est31 |
I think it was back in april |
| 17:11 |
est31 |
but I dont want to put him under pressure |
| 17:11 |
est31 |
this is a volunteer project :) |
| 17:11 |
TheWild |
ah... dang! by hmmmm you meant that guy on IRC |
| 17:12 |
est31 |
yes kwolekr |
| 17:12 |
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| 17:13 |
TheWild |
still to be considered: a special server command with ID and payload for script-defined clientside actions |
| 17:14 |
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| 17:14 |
est31 |
I think I've heard hmmmm talk about something like that (data sending between client and server lua) |
| 17:23 |
TheWild |
now searching for loadstring(s)(x) - how to know about x when s is a text, not bytecode? |
| 17:25 |
est31 |
see the url provided above https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/990a96578f20244626b6b9f67f8e79a7e2e614ea/src/script/cpp_api/s_security.cpp#L494 |
| 17:26 |
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| 17:27 |
TheWild |
loadstring considered unsafe? |
| 17:27 |
est31 |
I think bytecode is |
| 17:28 |
TheWild |
if it is, so theoretically this too: (function() malicious code here end)() |
| 17:28 |
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| 17:29 |
est31 |
define "malicious code" |
| 17:30 |
TheWild |
okay, how loadstring could hurt |
| 17:31 |
est31 |
I guess bytecode has been disabled because its use is limited |
| 17:32 |
est31 |
and there is a risk when enabling, as the more surface you offer, the more likely is an exploit |
| 17:32 |
est31 |
especially when it becomes binary |
| 17:32 |
TheWild |
so you mean: there might be a security hole in Lua which can be exploited? |
| 17:33 |
est31 |
yes in lua bytecode |
| 17:33 |
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| 17:33 |
est31 |
its like cutting off an appendix at birth |
| 17:33 |
est31 |
ok bad example |
| 17:35 |
est31 |
(generally you dont want to operate newborn babies, because of the risk) |
| 17:36 |
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| 17:40 |
MinetestBot |
[git] TeTpaAka -> minetest/minetest: Add minetest.register_on_player_hpchange aa13baa http://git.io/vIhCn (2015-06-13T19:40:31+02:00) |
| 17:40 |
MinetestBot |
[git] TeTpaAka -> minetest/minetest: Add return list of individual counts to find_node_in_area e50aa4e http://git.io/vIhCc (2015-06-13T19:39:18+02:00) |
| 17:41 |
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| 17:42 |
TheWild |
http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2010-08/msg00487.html - okay, I believe |
| 17:43 |
est31 |
O.o |
| 17:43 |
est31 |
cool ascii art :) http://www.corsix.org/lua/bytecode_abuse_0_1.lua |
| 17:46 |
Calinou |
https://about.gitlab.com/2015/05/20/gitlab-gitorious-free-software/ |
| 17:46 |
TheWild |
I was sure Lua is secure, because it is like a jail, a C/C++ programmer is just giving functions to it and the only way to break the jail is that programmer fault. |
| 17:47 |
Calinou |
<TheWild> We have lot of mods for minetest, all of them are server-side and all (?) of them are open source. |
| 17:47 |
Calinou |
wrong |
| 17:47 |
Calinou |
most mods in WIP mods have no license attached |
| 17:47 |
Calinou |
we might see some people obfuscating their code too in the future |
| 17:48 |
Calinou |
right now it hasn't happened, but it will happen at some point, I guarantee that |
| 17:48 |
Calinou |
and these people will reply "lol i dont want people to steal!!!" and you're screwed |
| 17:48 |
Calinou |
(it becomes even worse when other mods start depending on those mods.) |
| 17:48 |
TheWild |
ahh... no license --> don't use it, you have never seen this code. |
| 17:49 |
Calinou |
mods being interpreted and not compiled discourages users from making their mods obscure, but does not prevent it sadly |
| 17:49 |
TheWild |
"interpreted" - wait, don't we have LuaJIT? |
| 17:50 |
TheWild |
or you meant: resulting bytecode is interpreted |
| 17:50 |
Calinou |
LuaJIT counts as interpreted for that purpose |
| 17:50 |
Calinou |
you don't have to compile your mods ahead of time, and that's great |
| 17:52 |
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| 17:53 |
MinetestBot |
[git] xyzz -> minetest/minetest: Use utf-8 in formspecs b6387b4 http://git.io/vIhlX (2015-06-13T19:49:55+02:00) |
| 17:53 |
MinetestBot |
[git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Add utf-8 conversion utilities and re-add intlGUIEditBox 572990d http://git.io/vIhl1 (2015-06-13T19:49:55+02:00) |
| 18:17 |
Trixar_za |
... the troll in me suddenly wants to create mods with obfuscated code... |
| 18:19 |
TheWild |
when developing not actual game but an engine, there are lot of moments in which you're not sure like: time required to break a node should be assigned to node or tool? |
| 18:19 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: Hi. Are you around? Wanted to ask you something related to the mapgen. I guess the question works for anyone else if they know though, but I think this is often your area of code... |
| 18:19 |
Calinou |
just ask it |
| 18:20 |
Calinou |
TheWild, to tools; they have a powerful group system. |
| 18:20 |
Calinou |
nodes should only have toughness information, not times |
| 18:20 |
Calinou |
Trixar_za, we won't accept them into Mod Releases |
| 18:21 |
sfan5 |
Calinou: why not? the rules allow it |
| 18:21 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: Despite the obvious controversy to this, I'm trying to get the mapgen to generate villages, by having schematic buildings placed as decorations. Apparently, by using a perlin noise distribution, I should be able to reduce the chances of houses crashing into each other. But I'm not sure exactly how that can be tweaked. |
| 18:21 |
Taoki |
Any thoughts on a good formula to try this? |
| 18:21 |
Calinou |
sfan5, in mod releases, no |
| 18:21 |
Calinou |
it's implicit but it goes without saying :P |
| 18:21 |
sfan5 |
there are no rules that go without saying |
| 18:22 |
est31 |
Taoki, the simplest way would be to place houses only at positions where z % max-house-size == 0 |
| 18:22 |
est31 |
or x |
| 18:22 |
Trixar_za |
I had that exact same arguement with an atheist once. They assume morality is self-evident and then scream bloody murder when some kid kills something. |
| 18:23 |
Taoki |
est31: Yes, I was thinking something like that. But how do I convert the whole thing into a perlin noise, or other value the decoration system can understand for distribution |
| 18:23 |
est31 |
no idea, sorry :) |
| 18:23 |
est31 |
I know not much bout mapgen |
| 18:23 |
Taoki |
ok :) |
| 18:24 |
Taoki |
Would appreciate one if anyone has |
| 18:24 |
TheWild |
Calinou, yes, the grouping system in Minetest is one of the best things I've seen in programming. However, why we have only 3 groups? |
| 18:24 |
est31 |
TheWild, you can add more groups if you want |
| 18:24 |
est31 |
in mods |
| 18:24 |
Calinou |
TheWild, design decision |
| 18:24 |
Calinou |
- you can't make nodes that are very hard to dig (intended) |
| 18:24 |
TheWild |
e.g. crumbly = 4? Will it work? |
| 18:25 |
Calinou |
- you must use the level parameter for intermediate digging times |
| 18:25 |
Calinou |
look at how steel block is tougher than most blocks thanks to level attribute |
| 18:25 |
Calinou |
"tough though through thorough." |
| 18:25 |
Calinou |
:D |
| 18:26 |
TheWild |
can I combine tool and node parameters and by result have arbitrary digging times? Eg. 2.0375 second? |
| 18:27 |
Calinou |
you won't be able to get exactly the time you want |
| 18:27 |
TheWild |
ahh, sad. |
| 18:28 |
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| 18:32 |
TheWild |
nevermind; grouping system is advanced enough, no words from me |
| 18:40 |
hmmmm |
Taoki: schematic decorations were not intended for placing discrete structures like villages. i suggest you place those things manually. |
| 18:41 |
hmmmm |
you'll have too many problems using scematic decorations |
| 18:41 |
hmmmm |
est31: I'll get time to work on minetest sometime later tonight |
| 18:41 |
hmmmm |
hopefully |
| 18:42 |
Taoki |
hmmmm: I know it's difficult like this. For what I want to do however, it seems like the best way. So I'd still like to try it. Which is why I was wondering, what noise settings can I use to at least influence the separation somewhat. |
| 18:42 |
est31 |
yaay |
| 18:42 |
Taoki |
For now, I get the impression I might get away with making the noise very detailed and grainy, then using a negative offset a bit. |
| 18:43 |
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| 18:43 |
Taoki |
That way I might be able to only make a few spots "spike" out |
| 18:43 |
Taoki |
But still not getting any good settings |
| 18:49 |
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| 18:54 |
paramat |
Taoki see https://github.com/paramat/biomesdev init.lua you need 'clear registered biomes/decorations' at start of file |
| 18:55 |
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| 18:56 |
paramat |
decoration placement is random so there's always a chance of houses overlapping, using a low fixed 'fill ratio' will help though |
| 18:57 |
Taoki |
paramat: Thanks! Will try the settings there out. |
| 18:57 |
Taoki |
paramat: Which tree schematic has the lowest probability there? |
| 18:58 |
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| 18:58 |
paramat |
cacti |
| 18:58 |
paramat |
and large cacti |
| 18:59 |
paramat |
using 'sidelen = 80' will also reduce house density |
| 19:00 |
paramat |
that allows you to reduce 'fill ratio' even further. copy the cacti settings as a starting point |
| 19:01 |
Taoki |
What does sidelen do exactly? The documentation doesn't clarify that well enough. |
| 19:01 |
Taoki |
And thanks again |
| 19:04 |
paramat |
heh full docs aren't written yet. each mapchunk (80x80) is divided into squares of size 'sidelen', a fill ratio noise value is calculated for each square |
| 19:04 |
paramat |
so sidelen must divide into 80, so usually use 16 |
| 19:05 |
paramat |
number of decorations = square area x fill ratio/noise value |
| 19:06 |
* Taoki |
nods |
| 19:06 |
Taoki |
And yeah, those noise settings are a lot closer to what I want. But of course not perfect either |
| 19:06 |
Taoki |
Houses are very rare now, and even then some intersect each other. So yeah |
| 19:16 |
rubenwardy |
tfw I thought this was spam: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&p=181723#p181723 |
| 19:18 |
VanessaE |
no worries, rubem |
| 19:18 |
VanessaE |
ruben* |
| 19:18 |
VanessaE |
report closed. |
| 19:19 |
paramat |
a lua mod that uses the mapgen object heightmap and 'place schematic' in 'on generated' will be fast and give control over house placement |
| 19:20 |
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| 19:20 |
TheWild |
can someone take a look on this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1091 |
| 19:20 |
Taoki |
paramat: I'm thinking of something like that. But am not fully sure how to go about it. Since I basically want all houses to be aligned, but of course without intersecting |
| 19:21 |
Taoki |
I already have the old Structures mod, written about 2 years ago. It even has roads. But it doesn't work for large cities, because the city is planned per instance, instead of each on_generate randomly placing a building. |
| 19:22 |
Taoki |
Are there any village mods that use this approach? Having on_generated place a building, but without it intersecting other buildings. I could really use that. |
| 19:22 |
workworkwork |
Hello. I'm lost in Minetest;) I must create a Compass and map but I don't know where is redstone. I have now steel ingot |
| 19:22 |
workworkwork |
I lost my house;) |
| 19:24 |
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| 19:28 |
* Taoki |
is curious to know if anyone created a village mod close to what I'm describing above: Have the on_generated function create a building, which can be of any size, without having to keep track of the entire village design. |
| 19:29 |
TheWild |
workworkwork, this is not Minecraft. |
| 19:29 |
workworkwork |
TheWild, how can I find my house?:) |
| 19:29 |
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| 19:30 |
Calinou |
won hunger games |
| 19:30 |
rubenwardy |
does this happen often in inchra.net? http://pasteboard.co/1cmtNRzX.png |
| 19:30 |
paramat |
for villages see 'mg mapgen' mod by nore/sfan5, 'villages' mod by sokomine |
| 19:30 |
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| 19:30 |
Calinou |
workworkwork, there's no compass, map and redstone in Minetest by default |
| 19:30 |
TheWild |
hm... when we die, we respawn somewhere on the map. Have you been in your bed? |
| 19:31 |
Calinou |
rubenwardy, Popularity is known to do that :P |
| 19:35 |
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| 19:40 |
Calinou |
won hunger games again |
| 19:40 |
Jordach |
Calinou, http://niceme.me]# |
| 19:40 |
Jordach |
Calinou, http://niceme.me |
| 19:40 |
Jordach |
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 19:43 |
workworkwork |
TheWild, I don't have a bed |
| 19:44 |
workworkwork |
I wish I had remembered coordinates of my house:( |
| 19:45 |
hmmmm |
Taoki: right now, there's absolutely no way to prevent schematic decorations from being placed into eachother unless the schematic is as wide as the base |
| 19:47 |
kahrl |
workworkwork: you could use minetestmapper and see if you see something that looks like a house |
| 19:48 |
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| 19:56 |
Sokomine |
Taoki: you really ought to take a look at my mg_villages mod |
| 19:57 |
Taoki |
Sokomine: I will. I remember I did long ago, but wasn't sure if it would help since IIRC all buildings are hard-coded (you can't define own villages with own schematics). |
| 19:57 |
Taoki |
At least then... not sure if that changed or I remember wrongly |
| 19:57 |
Sokomine |
it'll just take soo much documentation that i shy away from actually creating the relevant thread on the forum. plus there are still some errors |
| 19:58 |
Sokomine |
Taoki: oh, no. your very own buildings form one village style. and i created two other village types to show how it's done |
| 19:58 |
Taoki |
Ah... so it's a library that you can define own villages with? Interesting |
| 19:58 |
Sokomine |
guess i really need to pack it all up and put it in a conveninet .zip ... it's all on github but might take some searching in order to get all togehter |
| 19:59 |
Sokomine |
you can even define for each village type what the materials of your house will be replaced with |
| 19:59 |
Taoki |
No no... I like running Minetest mods from Github best :) |
| 19:59 |
Taoki |
Nice |
| 20:00 |
Taoki |
It also has... roads? Are they schematics like in my structures mod too? Like a schematic for the I (segment), X (i3-end ntersection), T (3-end intersection). |
| 20:00 |
Taoki |
**4-end intersection |
| 20:00 |
Taoki |
Since I plan to use schematic roads |
| 20:02 |
Sokomine |
ok, then take the following of my mods: handle_schematics mg_villages cottages (from random_buildings; some of the nicest houses are build using the mod); bell (gives you a church bell for the churches); moresnow (snow covers on roofs); mobf_trader (the seperate mod - not from random_buildings) for traders standing around; village_gambit and village_towntest in order to see how a new village type can be created |
| 20:02 |
Sokomine |
no, the roads are just gravel paths. the village generator is that one used by nores mg mod (whith some small modifications) |
| 20:03 |
* Taoki |
nods |
| 20:03 |
Sokomine |
my orginal, own villages mod had roads based on schematics. i decided to take nores approach because that does work better gameplay related - you get lost less easily if you know that the main road will be the widest, and all side roads one node smaller. it's not as nice but helps immensly when walking around in such a village |
| 20:05 |
Taoki |
Would have been nice if they remained an option. But I guess... I could go with that still. |
| 20:05 |
Sokomine |
plus, you get something you might not have in your own mod yet: the terrain is adjusted. paramat helped me a lot with that. so the villages are really integrated into the environment |
| 20:05 |
Taoki |
Problem is I want something bigger and more complex. I want to generate huge cities, with entire road and highway systems. Sewer systems underground. All houses have an interior, etc. It's possible... but needs very precise and complex code. |
| 20:05 |
Taoki |
My structure mod has it. But the way it computes cities has reached a bottleneck |
| 20:06 |
Sokomine |
it's possible to change it and place roads that way as well. it's just that orientation really becomes a problem if villages get bigger |
| 20:06 |
Sokomine |
in how far? |
| 20:06 |
Taoki |
what do you mean? |
| 20:06 |
Sokomine |
hm. right now, my houses are pre-built structures. they do have interior, but only because i built it once |
| 20:07 |
Sokomine |
mean in which way? |
| 20:07 |
Taoki |
The schematics are okay, I have and will make my own. Only issue is the code. |
| 20:07 |
Taoki |
Well, |
| 20:07 |
Taoki |
For my structures mod, the problem is I need to tell the code a fixed area to generate the city plan in. The city cannot be generated procedurally with chunks, since the position of each building must be pre-known. |
| 20:07 |
Sokomine |
cities are more difficult than villages. in a city, you'd expect more structure than "at least 3 of that building; no more than x of that other one" etc |
| 20:08 |
Taoki |
I can't make very big cities due to this. Because then the server can freeze for a minute to compute the location of each schematic |
| 20:09 |
Sokomine |
the villages are also pre-generated, but in a reproducable way. i do store generated villages and the replacements choosen - but that has other reasons (people installing other mods, travelling to known villages, ..) |
| 20:09 |
Sokomine |
as to that, i have to point you to nore. it's nore's village generator that does the work. and it does it very well. there can be huge villages if you want to |
| 20:10 |
Sokomine |
larger than what is convenient for gameplay |
| 20:11 |
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| 20:11 |
Sokomine |
the speed is pretty acceptable. i even tested it on my phone today. it requires more patience than mgv6, but that was to be expected. it's a smartphone after all and not a desktop... |
| 20:12 |
Sokomine |
performance of voxelmanip is very fine |
| 20:12 |
Sokomine |
just take a look and play a bit with the villages :-) don't forget to install all the mods in order to get all possible village types |
| 20:16 |
Taoki |
I think that for what I want, my Structures mod must be the only way, sadly. |
| 20:17 |
Taoki |
I want to generate huge complex cities. Don't think anything else will work. |
| 20:19 |
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| 20:20 |
bobomb |
What is the process for getting a mod moved from WIP to Mod Releases in the forums? |
| 20:25 |
TheWild |
you want them to be generated on the fly (minetest.register_on_generate) or pre-generated? |
| 20:25 |
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| 20:26 |
CaveJohnson |
\o |
| 20:28 |
rubenwardy |
bobomb, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10418 |
| 20:34 |
TheWild |
I was thinking: let chunk be a cell for a building. The buildings might be as small as 1x1 or as big as 5x5. Map generator takes chunk's x and z and passes these coordinates through some hash function, which returns a kind of building (with size) and priority. But it should also compute the same for 124 lower-x, lower-z chunks and if there is a building with higher priority and intersecting with this chunk, a part of found |
| 20:34 |
TheWild |
building is placed; else first chunk of own building is placed. |
| 20:35 |
Sokomine |
Taoki: keep in mind that mt is in effect very small-scale. on my phone, i can look as far as one house. even with a desktop, view range is usually limited (often by chunks not yet loaded) |
| 20:35 |
Teckla |
minetest.net/mods links issues? |
| 20:36 |
Taoki |
FPS is probably not the problem. More upset about the small world size (31000) |
| 20:36 |
TheWild |
31000 is actually quite long way to go |
| 20:36 |
Sokomine |
not only fps :-) just doesn't help if you're standing in front of a mountain and can't see any of it |
| 20:37 |
Sokomine |
as far as towns go, using buildings that look like as if they could fit into a town might help to a degree |
| 20:37 |
Sokomine |
or do you want towns to be real-world size? |
| 20:40 |
TheWild |
also maybe pre-generated schematics and a little file with information which building is placed on given chunk? |
| 20:41 |
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| 20:43 |
Sokomine |
TheWild: i store that information for the villages. a diffrent set of installed mods can cause other buildings and/or materials to be selected. and it's good to know where a village is so that a map can be constructed |
| 20:44 |
Sokomine |
what would be really nice is if the villages could be connected with roads. i havn't got that far |
| 20:44 |
Sokomine |
they would be roads following either the x- or z-axis. round is difficult in that case |
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| 20:46 |
TheWild |
are you storing the information in the grid form? |
| 20:48 |
Sokomine |
doesn't have anything to do with grids. it's stored in table format. just take a look at mg_all_villages.data in your world folder if you've got the mod installed |
| 20:49 |
Sokomine |
nores code takes care of deciding where a village gets placed, how large it will be and which terrain belongs to which village. it's based on (perlin?) noise |
| 20:49 |
Sokomine |
my own single buildings are based on (at max) one building per mapchunk, similar to what you described. but that's a far less good aproach than the one with noise that nore took |
| 20:55 |
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| 21:15 |
TheWild |
Lua does not have any builtin functions to read/write char, string, int etc. Do we need them? |
| 21:16 |
TheWild |
(e.g. saving things in compact way, without unnecessary string parsing) |
| 21:16 |
est31 |
read/write where? |
| 21:16 |
TheWild |
to file |
| 21:30 |
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| 21:32 |
TheWild |
What is this for? We could take a city somewhere from internet and convert it to Minetest or use it as a base for terrain generator. |
| 21:32 |
TheWild |
s**t; bad copy-paste |
| 21:32 |
TheWild |
I was thinking: let chunk be a cell for a building. The buildings might be as small as 1x1 or as big as 5x5. Map generator takes chunk's x and z and passes these coordinates through some hash function, which returns a kind of building (with size) and priority. But it should also compute the same for 124 lower-x, lower-z chunks and if there is a building with higher priority and intersecting with this chunk, a part of found |
| 21:32 |
TheWild |
building is placed; else first chunk of own building is placed. |
| 21:34 |
TheWild |
this also |
| 21:40 |
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| 21:43 |
Sokomine |
TheWild: we tend to use minetest.serialize for saving/restoring data |
| 21:44 |
Sokomine |
TheWild: hm, yes. do take a look at mg_villages. it does a lot already |
| 21:48 |
TheWild |
if anyone interested: SimCity Classic and SimCity 2000 are games about building own city. The map format for SimCity Classic is known because the game went open-source some time ago (under new name Micropolis). The map format for SimCity 2000 is not known at all, but David Moews made a good progress figuring it out and documenting. What is this for? We could take a city somewhere from internet/create own and convert it to |
| 21:48 |
TheWild |
Minetest or use it as a base for terrain generator. |
| 21:49 |
VanessaE |
nice idea. |
| 21:50 |
VanessaE |
to get adequate detail, houses would need to be about 1 mapblock in size (making a residential zone 3x3 mapblocks) |
| 21:51 |
VanessaE |
the world would need to be equipped with homedecor and technic (for the power lines) |
| 21:53 |
VanessaE |
I should say house *plots* would need to be |
| 21:53 |
VanessaE |
I'd love to see something like that in fact |
| 21:54 |
Taoki |
Is there any way to check whether an area has been generated by the mapgen? Even if it hasn't loaded, otherwise I could use the "ignore" node name |
| 21:54 |
Taoki |
Like if a given position is part of an area not generated yet |
| 21:55 |
VanessaE |
not afaik |
| 21:55 |
Taoki |
ok |
| 21:55 |
VanessaE |
but there is a way to force-load a blocxk |
| 21:55 |
VanessaE |
block* |
| 21:55 |
VanessaE |
using vmanip |
| 21:56 |
VanessaE |
or I should say, force it to generate |
| 21:56 |
TheWild |
about calculations: In SimCity 2000, 1 square = 1 acre, (adding some specific 3x3 building was adding 9 acres to city stats). |
| 21:57 |
TheWild |
1 square = 1 acre = 4046.856 m² ~ 4096 m², that is 64x64 nodes, but this is not necessary to keep this size. |
| 21:58 |
VanessaE |
4046 square meters to an acre, so 64 nodes on a side if you wanted to keep it exct |
| 21:58 |
VanessaE |
bah, ninja'd |
| 21:58 |
VanessaE |
in a minetest world, one square = 1 mapblock would be much easier to play in |
| 21:58 |
Teckla |
yikes, teleporter mod crashes server |
| 21:59 |
VanessaE |
hm, you'd need one of those cars mods also |
| 21:59 |
VanessaE |
(assuming you would attempt to port Simcity's general game logic over) |
| 22:02 |
Sokomine |
VanessaE: not with homedecor :-) i'm afraid that exceeds the capabilities of any current...building...generator. empty dungeons are another matter :-) |
| 22:02 |
Sokomine |
leave something for the players ,-) |
| 22:02 |
VanessaE |
Sokomine: this is about importing maps |
| 22:02 |
VanessaE |
if you're gonna generate a house, you had better furnish it :) |
| 22:02 |
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| 22:04 |
Sokomine |
i'm not sure if we ought to ship the houses furnished. there has to be something for the players to do. in that way, the houses built by nore and taoki may well be better suited than the furnished ones i built for the medieval villages |
| 22:04 |
Sokomine |
hi lazyj |
| 22:04 |
Sokomine |
of course it depends. walking a real city certainly won't be bad :-) and i did love to play simcity for a long time |
| 22:05 |
TheWild |
cars could be OK. |
| 22:05 |
TheWild |
the roads in SC2000 can be placed on slopes. Wait, we have slopes in MT too (yay, that win!). |
| 22:06 |
Sokomine |
hmm. if you want an endless city...perhaps that's possible as well. but it is tricky. the best way to approach mapgen is to be able to reproduce the exact same mapblock whenever you get the same coordinates |
| 22:07 |
Sokomine |
simcity has a far lower resolution than mt as far as buildings go |
| 22:07 |
TheWild |
Sokomine: or maybe teleport the player when "overflow" is reached |
| 22:07 |
Sokomine |
overflow? |
| 22:08 |
Sokomine |
guess american towns with their square city grid would be easier to do than other types of cities... |
| 22:09 |
TheWild |
I said "overflow" about repeating city - say city is 200x200 mapblocks, but it is saved as 400x400 mapblocks and a margin of 20 mapblocks. When player goes from 179 to 180, it is silently teleported to -220. |
| 22:09 |
Sokomine |
it's not impossible to build such a world, not even automaticly. it's just...if you want it nicely done (with decorations!), you do need players to build those houses at least once |
| 22:10 |
Sokomine |
hm, what would that be good for, thewild? there might be just some "wild" landscape around the city |
| 22:10 |
Sokomine |
maybe you'll like pripyat. there's sometimes a server running which has a reconstruction of that. it looks very town-like (abandomed town) |
| 22:10 |
Sokomine |
even that amusement park sometimes seen on photos is there |
| 22:10 |
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| 22:11 |
TheWild |
crap, my idea does not work very well for multiple players on it |
| 22:11 |
TheWild |
^ that was about repeating ciy |
| 22:12 |
Sokomine |
the villages do work pretty well with a handful of buildings. for towns, you'll want a lot more pre-built houses |
| 22:12 |
Sokomine |
players would get lost pretty soon.... |
| 22:15 |
TheWild |
Sokomine, I think there is no need to have pre-generated buildings - a good building generator could solve the problem. |
| 22:16 |
TheWild |
e.g. generate some random simple shape (e.g. "L"), get random material, create walls, get a good placement for windows, create windows, calculate correct position of roof... |
| 22:21 |
LazyJ |
A belated, "Howdy", Sokomine ;) |
| 22:22 |
Sokomine |
TheWild: trouble is: you're talking about something that exceeds the capacity of most players. it can be done to a degree, yes...paramat's working on something like this to a degree. it's just that what you have in mind is anything but trivial |
| 22:23 |
Sokomine |
sadly, a lot of human players will just construct ugly cobble boxes and claim those to be houses :-( there's a lot more to building well... |
| 22:24 |
TheWild |
I'm not sure what you meant. You want players to create their buildings and use them in generator? |
| 22:27 |
Sokomine |
i'm trying to say that human players sometimes have difficulty to producte good buildings - especially in large quantity. if you try to automatize architecture, there'll be limits |
| 22:28 |
Teckla |
Is anyone else here having trouble with the links on this page? http://www.minetest.net/mods |
| 22:28 |
TheWild |
website seems ok, but Avast is complaining because of http://stats.inchra.net/piwik.php?idsite=1 |
| 22:29 |
Sokomine |
Teckla: hm, you're right. the links seem to be broken. might be due to a recent change/movement of the forum |
| 22:29 |
TheWild |
^ right |
| 22:29 |
Teckla |
Sokomine: Ah, I bet that's it, thanks :) |
| 22:29 |
Sokomine |
Teckla: use this to find mods: http://nimg.pf-control.de/MTstuff/modSearch.php |
| 22:30 |
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| 22:30 |
Teckla |
Sokomine: That works like a charm, thank you! |
| 22:31 |
Sokomine |
Teckla: it was written by krock. i use that as well whenever i want to search for a mod. forum search doesn't work very well in that regard |
| 22:35 |
TheWild |
Sokomine: "there'll be limits" <- I still didn't get that |
| 22:49 |
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| 22:50 |
paramat |
ugh you have got me wanting to code a city generator |
| 22:50 |
est31 |
lol |
| 22:51 |
VanessaE |
paramat: well you ARE the mapgen god around here ;) |
| 22:51 |
VanessaE |
and simcity's map format apparently is well-documented now............. |
| 22:52 |
paramat |
see https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9577 instead of on-generated, splitting generation into small elements generated by abms on spawner nodes splits server lag into smaller durations |
| 22:55 |
paramat |
this has a stairwell branching into corridors branching into flats. like this roads could branch and grow organically, maybe with landscaping stages too |
| 22:55 |
paramat |
it's fun to watch the structure generate around you a few seconds after mapgen |
| 22:56 |
paramat |
catacomb mod works this way too https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9896 |
| 23:03 |
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| 23:09 |
OldCoder |
How do I load an MTS scheme? |
| 23:09 |
OldCoder |
nvm |
| 23:12 |
Sokomine |
theTroy: constructing something in mt may well be art sometimes. many players are not very advanced. generating really good structures automaticly is therefore something that may not be easy |
| 23:13 |
Sokomine |
such a mapgen may have its own art, but...there are limits. most of it will not be...good... |
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| 23:29 |
Taoki |
Anyone know what the function is to un-generate an area? So you specify two corners, and anything in between them is erased from the database, letting on_generate create them again |
| 23:29 |
Taoki |
I know it's possible, saw someone do it on the forum |
| 23:29 |
kahrl |
/deleteblocks, iirc |
| 23:30 |
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| 23:30 |
Taoki |
Ah. It's only a command... no function to do it from Lua? |
| 23:30 |
est31 |
there is |
| 23:30 |
kahrl |
Taoki: the command handler has to call some function :P |
| 23:30 |
est31 |
minetest.delete_area |
| 23:30 |
Taoki |
Thanks! |
| 23:30 |
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| 23:31 |
Taoki |
So if I delete_area between two corners, the chunks there are completely remove, and on_generate will run fresh when they are explored again? |
| 23:31 |
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| 23:31 |
est31 |
there are no chunks |
| 23:31 |
Taoki |
Oh |
| 23:32 |
est31 |
only mapblocks |
| 23:32 |
Taoki |
I thought on_generate runs per chunk |
| 23:32 |
Taoki |
Ah yes |
| 23:32 |
Taoki |
I confuse the two :P |
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| 23:35 |
kahrl |
a chunk is a cube of c*c*c mapblocks, where c = chunksize = by default 5 |
| 23:35 |
Taoki |
Does minetest.delete_area also work for huge areas at once? Like 1000 blocks in both X and Z? |
| 23:35 |
Taoki |
Or even 10000 |
| 23:35 |
kahrl |
so a cube of 80x80x80 nodes |
| 23:36 |
est31 |
Taoki, yes it works |
| 23:36 |
Taoki |
ok :) |
| 23:36 |
est31 |
but its prone to crashing |
| 23:36 |
est31 |
and slow |
| 23:36 |
est31 |
so watch out :) |
| 23:36 |
Taoki |
Yeah, the slow part is the problem |
| 23:37 |
Taoki |
I'll be using it in a mod... where I might delete over huge distances like -X = -1000 and +X = 1000, same for other axes. Wouldn't want that to freeze the server for more than a few seconds |
| 23:42 |
kahrl |
perhaps an API that deletes the whole map would work for you and might be faster |
| 23:42 |
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| 23:42 |
air |
how do I make the hotbar smaller in 0.4.12? |
| 23:46 |
Sokomine |
kahrl: don't forget the shell around it where cavegen happily eats through existing neighbouring mapchunks. in effect, it's usually 111x111x111, though the 80x80x80 are the core |
| 23:46 |
Sokomine |
taoki: why do you want to delete so much? |
| 23:47 |
Taoki |
Sokomine: To slowly generate large cities with on_generate, as placing all buildings at once is very slow. |
| 23:47 |
Taoki |
Although it's better to use virtual boxes, and activate a city the moment the first one was "touched" by an on_generate function |
| 23:48 |
Teckla |
paramat: Your auto-growing structure mod is awesome, thanks for making it :) |
| 23:48 |
Teckla |
(My daughter is currently going bananas over it...) |
| 23:48 |
paramat |
cool |
| 23:49 |
kahrl |
Taoki: instead of triggering on_generate via delete_area, couldn't you directly create a vmanip for that area and modify it |
| 23:49 |
Taoki |
Do realize that in my craze, I'm aiming to procedurally generate cities as large as 1000 x 1000 nodes... pretty much the size of small cities in real life. Because I know that's possible and awesome. |
| 23:49 |
Taoki |
kahrl: It is slow. I must also spawn multiple schematics in it. |
| 23:49 |
kahrl |
still faster than delete_area, though :P |
| 23:50 |
Taoki |
:) |
| 23:50 |
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| 23:50 |
kahrl |
but yeah anything of that scale will probably be doomed to be slow :/ |
| 23:50 |
Sokomine |
Taoki: don't use place_schematic for it. there are some strange interaction effects. using voxelmanip in on_generated works far better |
| 23:50 |
Taoki |
Heh... since a block is 1m, this basically means I'm going to try generating cities that are one kilometer long in the x and z axes. |
| 23:50 |
Taoki |
Sokomine: Can voxelmanip place schematics directly? |
| 23:51 |
Sokomine |
Taoki: no. but my handle_schematics mod comes with functions to read a schematic and place it using voxelmanip |
| 23:51 |
Taoki |
Nice. |
| 23:51 |
Taoki |
I'll likely figure out a way. It's mostly finding a logical solution that's been a problem ^^ |
| 23:51 |
Sokomine |
it's necessary. turned out to be the safest way to avoid cavegen griefing or mudflow interfering with the town |
| 23:52 |
Sokomine |
but then, if your town is that large, you can probably settle for a flat mapgen |
| 23:53 |
Teckla |
paramat: Does it stop growing ... ? haha |
| 23:54 |
paramat |
Sokomine, soon i will prepare a mtgame pull to correct 'is ground content' for all nodes, please could you then review it? |
| 23:54 |
Sokomine |
Taoki: do you have your city generator as such already finished, or are you still planning on that one? |
| 23:54 |
paramat |
teckla which mod? |
| 23:54 |
Sokomine |
paramat: that'd be nice! i think it's mostly wood that remains a problem (the planks type, not the tree one) |
| 23:54 |
paramat |
yeah |
| 23:54 |
Sokomine |
rails, as well |
| 23:55 |
Teckla |
paramat: Generative architecture |
| 23:55 |
Sokomine |
Taoki: what are your plans regarding height anyway? will you use flat terrain? |
| 23:55 |
paramat |
yes it will reach a certain height and stop |
| 23:56 |
Teckla |
paramat: excellent thanks |
| 23:56 |
Taoki |
Sokomine: Not sure. That is very very tricky. |
| 23:57 |
paramat |
walk all the corridors (or fly near all the corridors) to generate all the flats, it all appears around you as you explore |
| 23:57 |
Taoki |
It's a great logical problem :) |
