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Orb |
yeah :/ |
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| 02:57 |
Sinkidonk |
can anyone help me with this pieces of code http://pastebin.com/c7JPieaj I can't get post_effect_color to work the input, I get no error and I don't know how to troubleshot, the problem, it look like post_effect_color is treating the input as not existent. |
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| 03:14 |
Sokomine |
*sigh* it just creates all kinds of problems when trying to add something to the map that is determined by the surface structure of the map instead of the coordinates alone... |
| 03:18 |
VanessaE |
you still fighting it out with that buildings mod? |
| 03:18 |
VanessaE |
villages* |
| 03:19 |
Sokomine |
in a way. i'm trying to place mineshafts. the existing mines mods do not have entries above the surface. they just exist..somewhere below the surface, where they may be found rarely by chance or by using noclip |
| 03:20 |
VanessaE |
ah |
| 03:20 |
Sokomine |
right now, i want to place the main tunnel at a random height, which is deterministic for each mine |
| 03:21 |
Sokomine |
the trouble is...after i've placed the building for the entrance, the map is changed, and subsequent calls (i.e. from the mapchunk below the one with the entrance...) will get a diffrent result as to where the entrance is |
| 03:23 |
Sokomine |
maybe i ought to just place everything in the very mapchunk that contains the height level of 0. i see no real way of handling it otherwise (except perhaps storing that information) |
| 03:37 |
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| 03:42 |
VanessaE |
either that or enqueue the blocks where entrances should have gone, and playback the queue while also changing the surrounding blocks to e.g. rewrite what got screwed up? |
| 03:42 |
hmmmmmm |
sokomine, this is due to caving in mapgen v6? |
| 03:44 |
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| 03:44 |
Sokomine |
hmmmmmm: only partly. the caves require the mine (or any other structure placed) to be re-drawn in those chunks that where affected by caves from neighbours. but my problem is mostly that the landscape determines where the entrance is supposed to be - which in turn changes the very landscape (i.e. change terrain height) |
| 03:45 |
ajaypay |
! seen est31 |
| 03:45 |
ajaypay |
is that how u do it? |
| 03:45 |
Sokomine |
what i'm going to try now is to create the mine regardless of the landscape using pseudorandom - and then just superimpose it on the landscape. i hope that will give me better results |
| 03:46 |
hmmmmmm |
why aren't you doing landscape modifications first? |
| 03:47 |
ajaypay |
good question |
| 03:48 |
Sokomine |
right now, i'm looking where ground level is. at that place i start a tunnel downward and place a nice building above using place_schematic. next time parts of the chunk gets worked on, the landscape will already be the changed one |
| 03:48 |
ajaypay |
vinessa ur on? |
| 03:49 |
Sokomine |
that is, the mine will suddenly have another ground level...namely the roof of said tower |
| 03:50 |
hmmmmmm |
ahhh i see what you're saying |
| 03:50 |
Sokomine |
hmmmmmm: another problem i have is that place_schematic (called after all voxelmanip operations are done and written back) causes the mineshaft to have incorrect lighting |
| 03:50 |
hmmmmmm |
:) |
| 03:50 |
VanessaE |
ajaypay: it helps if you spell my name right... :P |
| 03:50 |
ajaypay |
what server is this on? |
| 03:51 |
hmmmmmm |
cool beans |
| 03:51 |
hmmmmmm |
more lighting bugs |
| 03:51 |
ajaypay |
oh sry |
| 03:51 |
hmmmmmm |
sokomine: so i'm understanding it like this: |
| 03:51 |
Sokomine |
maybe that's why other mine mods never bothered to provide entrances |
| 03:51 |
hmmmmmm |
you have the voxelmanip stage which does tunnel placement |
| 03:51 |
hmmmmmm |
this changes the ground level |
| 03:51 |
Sokomine |
that's right. the tunnelling happens using voxelmanip |
| 03:51 |
Sokomine |
yes |
| 03:51 |
hmmmmmm |
then you write back the voxelmanip changes |
| 03:52 |
hmmmmmm |
then you do place_schematics |
| 03:52 |
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| 03:52 |
ajaypay |
like this? vanessa |
| 03:52 |
VanessaE |
um, yeah? |
| 03:52 |
ajaypay |
*V |
| 03:52 |
Sokomine |
well, in this particular case and current state, it's the place_schematic (called after all voxelmanip operations are finished and written back) that changes the ground level |
| 03:52 |
hmmmmmm |
right |
| 03:53 |
hmmmmmm |
so it shouldn't be a problem unless you're relying on overlapping chunks of data |
| 03:53 |
hmmmmmm |
you're doing this in on_generated? or... |
| 03:53 |
Sokomine |
on_generated, yes |
| 03:53 |
ajaypay |
sokomine what server is this on |
| 03:53 |
Sokomine |
i'm partly experimenting with what might actually work and look ok as a mine |
| 03:53 |
hmmmmmm |
do you rely on the presense of overlapping mapblocks? |
| 03:53 |
Sokomine |
ajaypay: currently only my singleplayer world, and there with bugs |
| 03:54 |
Sokomine |
hmmmmmm: in the end, overlapping mapblocks cannot be avoided. caves eating through the floors of the tunnels is not so great |
| 03:54 |
ajaypay |
like bug bugs or like mess up the game bugs? |
| 03:54 |
hmmmmmm |
yeah... that's hard to get around |
| 03:55 |
Sokomine |
ajaypay: like mess up the game big scale bugs i'm afraid :-) |
| 03:55 |
hmmmmmm |
one thing you can do is disable caves from within the mapgen |
| 03:55 |
Sokomine |
hmm. that would be a pity. caves are nice |
| 03:55 |
hmmmmmm |
and then register a vein ore of air to simulate mapgen v5 style caves |
| 03:56 |
hmmmmmm |
you know what |
| 03:56 |
ajaypay |
oh.once i had a bug that made the textures neon green and orange |
| 03:56 |
hmmmmmm |
I have an idea of something that might solve the age-old cave problem, about expanding into two separate stages of generation |
| 03:57 |
Sokomine |
i'd even love to connect those dungeons to the mine. seems you added a function recently that reports their positions |
| 03:57 |
hmmmmmm |
one where caves are carved and one where the map is actually generated |
| 03:57 |
hmmmmmm |
recently?? |
| 03:57 |
hmmmmmm |
are you talking about structure generation notify? |
| 03:57 |
Sokomine |
*nod* |
| 03:57 |
hmmmmmm |
that's not recent lol |
| 03:57 |
Sokomine |
it just came to my awareness recently |
| 03:57 |
ajaypay |
wow u guys are typin fast |
| 03:57 |
hmmmmmm |
ahh |
| 03:57 |
hmmmmmm |
yeah I was going to make an example mod for it |
| 03:57 |
Sokomine |
that would be nice |
| 03:57 |
hmmmmmm |
to add chests with some random goodies like gold bars and such to dungeons |
| 03:58 |
Sokomine |
i thought about putting something in those caves. i'm just not sure what might be in there. i'm not a good dungeon equipment builder...and it bothers me that those structures, too, are not connected to anything else. hard to get in and out :-) |
| 03:58 |
hmmmmmm |
i actually did do that, but i never finished it, just sorta forgot about it completely |
| 03:58 |
Sokomine |
players will love that. but you'll run into exactly the same problem as the mines do: people rarely find them except when using noclip |
| 03:59 |
hmmmmmm |
they are supposed to be rare |
| 03:59 |
ajaypay |
u should turn that world into a server |
| 04:00 |
Sokomine |
the rareness is ok. that's not the problem. it's just strange that they're connected to nothing. but maybe that's my problem...i tend to build my structures in mt as if they could work |
| 04:00 |
Sokomine |
ajaypay: ah, no. there are many fine servers out there already. but i hope to release the mod eventually. until then, you might install my mg_villages mod and play with that |
| 04:01 |
hmmmmmm |
aside from the concern of practicality, the rationale for dungeons not being connected is that they're old and buried |
| 04:01 |
hmmmmmm |
sort of like the minecraft strongholds |
| 04:01 |
hmmmmmm |
though minetest dungeons predated minecraft strongholds... |
| 04:01 |
ajaypay |
i think i may have it already |
| 04:02 |
Sokomine |
hm, yes. it's nice to find one by chance when mining. most never got found. and i always wonder what happened inside... |
| 04:02 |
hmmmmmm |
sokomine, I realize this is totally hacky, but what do you think about having a mapgen flag to not allow caving into neighboring chunks |
| 04:02 |
hmmmmmm |
I can easily do this |
| 04:03 |
hmmmmmm |
the downside is either having 'walled off' caves, or caves that never intersect to make a cave system larger than one mapchunk |
| 04:03 |
Sokomine |
hmmmmmm: hm, sometimes that might be helpful. i'm sure most people are not aware of how it works. yet...it's usually a specific region that doesn't want cavegen griefing... |
| 04:03 |
hmmmmmm |
some mapgen flags are intended to be used by the modder, not the user |
| 04:03 |
hmmmmmm |
i.e. MG_LIGHT |
| 04:04 |
hmmmmmm |
this would be one of those flags |
| 04:04 |
Sokomine |
most modders are not aware of that either. most work on other areas. though it's nice that there are some intresting mapgens out |
| 04:04 |
hmmmmmm |
well |
| 04:05 |
ajaypay |
so are u makin a mod? |
| 04:05 |
hmmmmmm |
it's worth repeating: minetest is far too complicated for anybody but core developers who work with it all the time to understand everything |
| 04:05 |
Sokomine |
and in the case of the mines it's not the mapgen's fault. that one just demands that everything that wants to...interact...with it has to produce the same output given the same mapchunk id |
| 04:05 |
hmmmmmm |
maybe there's too many modding interfaces |
| 04:05 |
hmmmmmm |
but i'm trying hard to make things fast |
| 04:06 |
Sokomine |
that's fine, hmmmmmm. it's sometimes a problem talking to you. you're an expert and expect others to know as much as you do - which is rarely the case |
| 04:06 |
Sokomine |
in general, a growing modding api is very fine |
| 04:07 |
hmmmmmm |
huh? like what |
| 04:07 |
hmmmmmm |
people are smarter than they're usually given credit for |
| 04:07 |
hmmmmmm |
if they don't understand something i'm saying i'd expect them to then stop and ask for more details on that |
| 04:07 |
hmmmmmm |
but that's not the case mostly i suppose |
| 04:08 |
Sokomine |
i'm very glad that you're talking to me and explaining |
| 04:08 |
Sokomine |
ajaypay: yes, one that creates mineshafts with horizontal tunnels and vertical shafts as entrances |
| 04:09 |
hmmmmmm |
alright |
| 04:09 |
hmmmmmm |
so listen to my idea |
| 04:09 |
hmmmmmm |
there would be two separate stages to map generation |
| 04:09 |
Sokomine |
i don't have a good idea for those mods that change the world and thus are somehow incapable of creating the same mapchunk again if feed with the map as they changed it |
| 04:09 |
hmmmmmm |
one is the cave carving stage and the other is the actual map generation stage |
| 04:09 |
* ajaypay |
feels like hes in a tech/codeing class |
| 04:09 |
hmmmmmm |
you have a chunk in the emerge queue |
| 04:10 |
hmmmmmm |
it's already been through stage 1 generation? cool, call stage 2 generation |
| 04:10 |
hmmmmmm |
it's not existing at all? |
| 04:10 |
hmmmmmm |
check each of the neighboring 8 chunks |
| 04:10 |
ajaypay |
so u can create an set map? |
| 04:11 |
hmmmmmm |
if any of them are not existing, perform stage 1 generation |
| 04:11 |
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| 04:11 |
hmmmmmm |
ajaypay: ???? |
| 04:11 |
hmmmmmm |
now, this wouldn't just be for caves alone, but also dungeons |
| 04:12 |
ajaypay |
like a map of a place.like lotr. |
| 04:12 |
hmmmmmm |
those are two examples of discrete procedurally generated structures that span into neighboring blocks, and they don't depend on terrain |
| 04:12 |
Sokomine |
hm. so you would first create the dungeons/caves - which might be pretty fast? - so that when a mapchunk gets its on_generated call, we can be sure that all caves have eaten their share through the map from all sides? |
| 04:12 |
hmmmmmm |
ajaypay, map refers to the collection of nodes you play on |
| 04:12 |
ajaypay |
so u could visit them |
| 04:13 |
ajaypay |
oh |
| 04:13 |
hmmmmmm |
Sokomine: yeah |
| 04:13 |
hmmmmmm |
the reason why this works is because a lot of turds get added to the emerge queue CONSTANTLY, so it's totally okay to discard some |
| 04:13 |
Sokomine |
ajaypay: this is more about generating the world. how high it ought to be at each place, if there's sand or dirt, where caves are (this in particular) and so on...basicly, the generation of the world you can play with |
| 04:13 |
hmmmmmm |
if you discard a mapchunk because it needs prerequisite stage 1 generation of neighboring chunks, that's fine |
| 04:14 |
ajaypay |
am i interupting ur conversation |
| 04:14 |
hmmmmmm |
it'll just get re-added in the next server step when it realizes that the blocks haven't been sent to the remote peer yet |
| 04:14 |
Sokomine |
that might be a very neat solution, hmmm. then there'd be no need to generate structures in the "shell" in order to undo cavegen griefing. lots of trees might also be very happy as their leaves won't be eaten anymore |
| 04:15 |
hmmmmmm |
it remains to be seen how effective it is |
| 04:15 |
hmmmmmm |
i can forsee performance problems, or maybe circular chunk dependencies |
| 04:16 |
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| 04:16 |
AndroidKris |
Anyone know how the world anchor works? |
| 04:16 |
Sokomine |
ajaypay: in a way. but that's ok. this channel is not reserved single discussions. minetest is certainly on topic |
| 04:16 |
ajaypay |
no |
| 04:16 |
AndroidKris |
Where should I place it to keep my stuff running? What kind of area coverage does it provide? |
| 04:16 |
Sokomine |
what is a "world anchor"? |
| 04:17 |
Sokomine |
ah, that. i don't know. didn't look into that. why do you need one? |
| 04:17 |
AndroidKris |
It's a block from the technic mod pack |
| 04:17 |
AndroidKris |
I have one /giveme is a wonderful command, since the world anchor block can't be crafted.lol |
| 04:17 |
Sokomine |
AndroidKris: and are you aware what it does? |
| 04:17 |
ajaypay |
sorry my kindel typest very slow :( |
| 04:18 |
AndroidKris |
I know what it does, yes. |
| 04:18 |
AndroidKris |
I'm just wondering what the range of it is, etc. |
| 04:18 |
ajaypay |
what does it do? |
| 04:19 |
Sokomine |
AndroidKris: well, then place it where you need it? i don't know its range. maybe that depends on the active block range of the server? it'll be at least 16x16x16 nodes or multitudes thereof i think |
| 04:19 |
AndroidKris |
Why 16x16x16? Is that number special for some reason? |
| 04:20 |
Sokomine |
AndroidKris: 16x16x16 is what a mapblock consists of. it's the smallest unit minetest handles internally when storing in the database |
| 04:20 |
ajaypay |
the world ankor block? |
| 04:20 |
Pilcrow |
hmmmmmm: This is coming from my limited understanding, but what if you made a seperate node -- like air or ignore -- called 'cave', then ran the cave generator first and it would generate structures out of this 'cave' node. Then you can make the mapgen only overwrite ignore, so the caves would be untouched. Finally, after the mapgen runs, convert the 'cave' nodes to air. |
| 04:21 |
AndroidKris |
Aha, I see. I think I'm starting to piece together how this thing works now. |
| 04:21 |
Sokomine |
AndroidKris: usually, the players on your servers act as "anchors". but if you need your machines to work while there's no player conveniently standing by, the anchors can help |
| 04:22 |
ajaypay |
u have a server? |
| 04:22 |
AndroidKris |
When I right click, there is a numeric input box in the menu. Wonder what the limits of that box are. |
| 04:22 |
Sokomine |
ajaypay: there are many fine servers. do you have any particular preferences? |
| 04:22 |
hmmmmmm |
Pilcrow: it already does that except it doesn't call it cave |
| 04:22 |
hmmmmmm |
so what happens is this |
| 04:23 |
hmmmmmm |
right now, we generate an entire chunk, but in order to get cave extending into other chunks, we include a shell of neighboring mapblocks that aren't being generated |
| 04:24 |
hmmmmmm |
so the chunk gets generated, the caves get carved, and it just so happens that a cave pops through into the shell of neighboring mapblocks |
| 04:24 |
hmmmmmm |
maybe those neighboring mapblocks haven't been generated yet |
| 04:24 |
hmmmmmm |
in which case they're full of CONTENT_IGNORE |
| 04:24 |
AndroidKris |
ajaypay, minetest loads a virtual server for you every time you play. If you so choose, you can make that server public, allowing other players to come to your world and play. |
| 04:24 |
Pilcrow |
aha. |
| 04:24 |
hmmmmmm |
carving caves into CONTENT_IGNORE places CONTENT_AIR |
| 04:24 |
ajaypay |
trepca thats all.im looking for a server that has home decor on it |
| 04:24 |
Sokomine |
hmmmmmm: it may indeed help a lot of mods. mostly those who aren't expecting caves after on_generated ran on the area. it doesn't solve my initial problem. i'm afraid i'll really have to rely on acting like a mapgen ought to in this regard |
| 04:24 |
hmmmmmm |
when the map generator runs, it will only *set* nodes that are content_ignore |
| 04:25 |
hmmmmmm |
thus not walling-off the portion of the cave that the last map generation run created |
| 04:26 |
ajaypay |
are u makin a new mapgen? |
| 04:26 |
hmmmmmm |
no, just explaining the details of why things are broken the way they are and why it's extremely difficult to fix |
| 04:28 |
hmmmmmm |
"cavegen griefing" is a natural part of map generation, unless of course, a mod places things of its own inside of an on_generated callback |
| 04:28 |
hmmmmmm |
most times this can be avoided by placing nodes that have is_ground_content set to false |
| 04:28 |
hmmmmmm |
but there are still many mods that place stone, or rather form structures from the terrain |
| 04:28 |
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| 04:28 |
Sokomine |
i thought about something else that might help...i'm not sure how difficult that would be to achieve: tell the mapgen in a stage before on_generated which height is desired for which part of the map. that is, a partial override for the hightmap |
| 04:29 |
Pilcrow |
hmmmmmm: on_generated happens at mapgen time, before cavegen, right? it seems to me that on_generated should happen after mapgen and cavegen... |
| 04:29 |
hmmmmmm |
nope |
| 04:29 |
hmmmmmm |
cave generation is a part of mapgen |
| 04:29 |
hmmmmmm |
but that'd be a really good way for structures to get gobbled up in the current chunk, even |
| 04:29 |
Pilcrow |
oh. |
| 04:29 |
ajaypay |
hey pillcrow |
| 04:29 |
hmmmmmm |
not just neighboring chunks |
| 04:30 |
hmmmmmm |
sokomine: terrain isn't generated using a heightmap |
| 04:30 |
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| 04:30 |
Sokomine |
Pilcrow: some of cavegen griefing can be avoided by using nodes that have is_ground_content = false; but sometimes structures need nodes that may also be ground in other situations |
| 04:30 |
* Pilcrow |
still doesn't know much about the server-side, including mapgen... |
| 04:31 |
Sokomine |
ah, hmm said that alredy with stone etc. |
| 04:32 |
Sokomine |
hmmmmmm: it'd be an override for height so that a mod gets a deterministic height at a certain point. kind of moving flattening code to the c++ side |
| 04:33 |
hmmmmmm |
yeah but like i said, mapgens don't always generate things based on being a certain height at a certain point |
| 04:33 |
* ajaypay |
leaves without a trace |
| 04:33 |
hmmmmmm |
that's the way mapgen v6 works, but... that's just mapgen v6 only |
| 04:33 |
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| 04:33 |
hmmmmmm |
everything else makes heavy use of 3d noise |
| 04:34 |
hmmmmmm |
with 3d noise, the concept of height is totally out the window |
| 04:34 |
Sokomine |
hm, yes. all those overhanging cliffs and such... |
| 04:34 |
hmmmmmm |
not to mention what about all the 'wacky' mapgens that don't use perlin noise at all? |
| 04:34 |
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| 04:35 |
hmmmmmm |
so wait, how does that flattening thing help anyway? |
| 04:35 |
hmmmmmm |
what does it help with? |
| 04:35 |
Sokomine |
i don't know. don't they all use noise of one kind or another? most are written by paramat anyway. or just change biomes. good biomes are very important |
| 04:35 |
hmmmmmm |
there's Yappy |
| 04:35 |
hmmmmmm |
I saw some screenshots of that one and it looks cool |
| 04:35 |
Sokomine |
the height at a certain point would then be deterministic. but you're right...in some caes, ground is very debatable |
| 04:36 |
Sokomine |
i havn't tried yappy yet |
| 04:36 |
Pilcrow |
Sokomine: I'm not sure how viable this is, and would probably slow things down some, but could you possibly add lua-side cave generation to your mod? then the mod could turn off the cavegen flag, generate its own caves, and then generate mines and entrances where they need to go after the caves... |
| 04:38 |
Sokomine |
Pilcrow: hmmm. possibly. but i'd rather not. the caves are fine as they are. and i'd have to turn off cavegen for only a few chunks, creating strange borders |
| 04:39 |
Sokomine |
one way would be to duplicate some nodes...a not-eaten new stone... |
| 04:39 |
Sokomine |
the mines are at least pretty straightforward in that regard and consist of relatively few nodes |
| 04:40 |
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| 04:42 |
Sokomine |
for the villages, the problem is solved by beeing able to recreate them. this is partly achieved by storing data of created villages (especially the surface height) and by changing the height to that value no matter what mapgen came up with |
| 04:43 |
Pilcrow |
couldn't you make the lua cavegen using some kind of noise based on the map seed, displaced by mapblock position? I think then you could make caves that keep going past mapblocks. If my thinking is correct, it would also be possible to calculate the positions of caves that haven't been generated yet... |
| 04:44 |
Sokomine |
Pilcrow: i don't think i could recreate a good cavegen. and it's already there... |
| 04:45 |
Pilcrow |
Alright, that's perfectly understandable. I'm just throwing ideas around. |
| 04:47 |
Sokomine |
Pilcrow: it's not a bad idea as such. all works perfectly fine as long as my structures are placed exactly the same way no matter what the mapgen throws at the mod - placement depending entirely of coordinates of the mapchunk and noise or pseudorandom or similar deterministic functions |
| 04:54 |
Pilcrow |
Sokomine: regarding the use of duplicate nodes that don't get eaten, I'd do something like this: http://dpaste.com/2873JBR |
| 04:55 |
Pilcrow |
^ that way, if the node definition gets updated, your duplicate will update with it instead of being left behind |
| 04:56 |
Sokomine |
Pilcrow: yes, that would be a possibility. except that that might create a high amound of copies of nodes. not all mods may be aware of ground_content |
| 04:56 |
Pilcrow |
true. I'm not saying its a perfect method, either... :P |
| 04:58 |
Pilcrow |
oh and my little paste has the wrong drop code anyway. in fact, that line could probably just be gotten rid of. |
| 05:01 |
Pilcrow |
hey, this isn't related to Sokomine's problem, but if anyone remembers, does is_ground_content default to true or to false if its not written into a node's definition? I think it was one way and then got changed to the other at some point, but I'm not sure which it is now... :P |
| 05:09 |
AndroidKris |
How can I make a Filter/Injector perform the same action four times then stop? |
| 05:10 |
AndroidKris |
i.e, pull four stacks of coal dust out and send them down the tubes? |
| 05:11 |
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| 05:12 |
AndroidKris |
I already have the trigger event established, a mese solar panel and a not gate. so at sundown, it pulls, but only one stack. I want it to pull four, then stop until the next sundown. |
| 05:16 |
technomancy |
Pilcrow: documented a bit more about what's working so far in calandria |
| 05:16 |
technomancy |
https://github.com/technomancy/calandria/blob/master/Readme.md#current-status |
| 05:33 |
Pilcrow |
ah, cool technomancy. I wonder why digiterm is so slow... |
| 05:35 |
technomancy |
Pilcrow: could speed it up by buffering lines and sending them concatenated periodically |
| 05:36 |
technomancy |
the question is whether digilines is designed to be more real-time or if it's functioning as intended |
| 05:37 |
technomancy |
the slowness could be considered a form of emulating old-school teletypes =) |
| 05:38 |
technomancy |
for instance, vi was designed to work around the limitations of slow redisplays |
| 05:38 |
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| 05:39 |
Pilcrow |
hmm, I think digilines only takes about 1sec to transmit its messages from one luacontroller to another, so if it's taking much longer than that there might be some kind of issue... |
| 05:39 |
Pilcrow |
but I could also be wrong; it's been more than a year since I did anything with digilines... :P |
| 05:40 |
technomancy |
I guess the question is if you send three messages in a row, should they arrive all at the same time a second or two later, or should you expect a second between the messages? |
| 05:41 |
technomancy |
this reaffirms my inclination to use a separate block for editors instead of having the editor process running on the server |
| 05:47 |
Pilcrow |
it also leads me to believe the orb should really have its own terminal, rather than relying on digiterm at all... but that's another monumental task to add to the list. better to work on the os first... |
| 05:48 |
technomancy |
no, I think it might be time to think about writing our own terminal, especially since digiterm is effectively dea |
| 05:48 |
technomancy |
dead |
| 05:48 |
technomancy |
especially given https://github.com/technomancy/calandria/issues/17 |
| 05:53 |
Pilcrow |
Yeah, maybe... Is digilines itself even worked on any more? Oh, another thing to consider: are you planning to keep cli compatibility for the long-run? I think the differences will become too great eventually, since we won't be able to take full advantage of functions such as minetest.serialize, etc... |
| 05:54 |
technomancy |
I think a compatibility layer wouldn't be hard to create, but we can deal with that as it comes. |
| 05:54 |
technomancy |
also I would love to be able to launch a minetest server and connect to it from the CLI externally |
| 05:55 |
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| 05:55 |
technomancy |
https://github.com/technomancy/calandria/issues/19 for discussion of the editor node |
| 05:55 |
air |
how do you right click on the tablet version? |
| 05:58 |
AndroidKris |
air, probably press and hold |
| 05:58 |
AndroidKris |
or double tap |
| 05:58 |
air |
thanks |
| 05:58 |
AndroidKris |
np |
| 06:00 |
Pilcrow |
I think double-tapping used to do it, but that may have changed to press-and-hold recently. I haven't used the tablet version in a long time. |
| 06:01 |
technomancy |
Pilcrow: have you worked with formspecs much? |
| 06:03 |
Pilcrow |
technomancy: you do realize a node can be defined with more than one formspec, right? see my hoverbot's 'tabs'. I think you can even make a formspec hidden, which would work best for calandria since the editor could be hidden in an alternate tab of the terminal until it needs to be shown. https://github.com/Pilcrow182/hoverbot |
| 06:03 |
technomancy |
oh interesting; yeah |
| 06:03 |
Pilcrow |
well, not necessarily more than one formspec, but a formspec with more than one page. |
| 06:04 |
technomancy |
digiterms already have two; one for the channel and one for the actual term |
| 06:04 |
technomancy |
so yeah, that sounds like it'd be a great fit |
| 06:04 |
technomancy |
wait, how did I miss this hoverbot? this looks cool. =) |
| 06:05 |
Pilcrow |
yeah. then the editor could be defined similarly to the text input that signs_lib uses. |
| 06:05 |
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| 06:06 |
Pilcrow |
technomancy: you probably missed it because its not technically 'released' yet (still in-progress) and is nowhere to be found in the forums. ;) |
| 06:08 |
technomancy |
digiterm is on the forums, and it's complete abandonware that's only ever had a single commit |
| 06:08 |
technomancy |
so I don't take the forums very seriously =) |
| 06:10 |
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| 06:12 |
Pilcrow |
Eh, perhaps. Most of my stuff is not on the forums *or* github, but that's because I'm lazy. And a perfectionist. Bad combination, lol. |
| 06:14 |
technomancy |
I get that =) |
| 06:15 |
technomancy |
IRC is the best place to discuss early-stages stuff |
| 06:16 |
Pilcrow |
other than hoverbot, the only really useful mod on my github is my mechanism mod (the one I was talking about with Wayward_Tab yesterday about the buffered cobble I/O, lol). |
| 06:19 |
Pilcrow |
technomancy: irc is also a good place to keep track of those early-stage conversations, since this channel is logged on http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest |
| 06:27 |
Pilcrow |
oh, and if the hoverbot's not enough indication, yes I've worked with formspecs quite a bit, but they're still a nasty beast to tackle. the formspec API just needs a complete overhaul/replacement, to be honest. there has been discussion about that before. I think some people are lobbying to try and change it for 0.5? |
| 06:27 |
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| 06:29 |
Pilcrow |
ah, yes, here's the formspec discussion: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1399 |
| 06:32 |
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| 06:38 |
Pilcrow |
ach, I have to go to bed. 1:37am is too late for me. technomancy, I'll talk to you tomorrow maybe, ok? bye all! :) |
| 07:00 |
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| 07:17 |
technomancy |
speaking of formspec redesigns, why the deuce are they not already done as tables? |
| 07:17 |
technomancy |
very curious design decision |
| 07:18 |
technomancy |
good grief, and *again* with sapier raising a bunch of ill-founded objections |
| 07:18 |
technomancy |
why does he hate every attempt to make minetest better? |
| 07:30 |
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| 07:38 |
RealBadAngel |
technomancy, ShadowNinja had some plans to make it use tables |
| 07:38 |
RealBadAngel |
idk whats the progress with it |
| 07:39 |
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| 07:39 |
technomancy |
RealBadAngel: yeah, I was reading through that pull request discussion. looks promising. |
| 07:40 |
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| 07:41 |
technomancy |
RealBadAngel: do you think it should go deeper than just transitioning from strings->tables? |
| 07:41 |
technomancy |
I mean, it sounds like there are problems with the existing semantics too |
| 07:41 |
RealBadAngel |
deeper? |
| 07:43 |
technomancy |
like going beyond just the data representation and changing what they are actually capable of |
| 07:47 |
RealBadAngel |
i dont get what you mean |
| 07:48 |
technomancy |
well it looks like this discussion is about coming up with a new way of describing the same underlying functionality |
| 07:48 |
technomancy |
whereas some people think maybe the whole thing needs to be replaced |
| 07:51 |
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| 07:56 |
technomancy |
or at least augmented |
| 08:02 |
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| 08:24 |
CWz |
hey Zeno` |
| 08:24 |
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| 08:42 |
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ABJ joined #minetest |
| 08:43 |
ABJ |
Hi |
| 08:43 |
ABJ |
Is OldCoder on? He asked me to meet here. |
| 08:51 |
OldCoder |
Hi |
| 08:51 |
OldCoder |
People are not patien |
| 08:51 |
OldCoder |
People are not patient * |
| 08:52 |
CWz |
Hello OldCoder |
| 08:52 |
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| 08:57 |
OldCoder |
CWz hi |
| 09:02 |
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Amaz joined #minetest |
| 09:07 |
OldCoder |
Hi |
| 09:12 |
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Trustable joined #minetest |
| 09:16 |
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| 09:19 |
OldCoder |
CWz will you enable forum PM? |
| 09:20 |
JamesTait |
Good morning all; happy Amnesty International Day! 😃 |
| 09:21 |
CWz |
hey oldcoder |
| 09:22 |
OldCoder |
hi |
| 09:22 |
OldCoder |
CWz will you enable forum PM? |
| 09:23 |
CWz |
OldCoder: I've enabled it |
| 09:23 |
OldCoder |
ty |
| 09:40 |
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| 09:46 |
Tekken |
so in retrospect ... a 32 hour shift was a bad idea |
| 09:47 |
Tekken |
I'm SO tired |
| 09:57 |
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| 10:18 |
Megaf |
Hi |
| 10:26 |
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book` joined #minetest |
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| 11:05 |
Zeno` |
hi |
| 11:06 |
Zeno` |
lol @ 32-hour shift |
| 11:06 |
Zeno` |
Tekken, that's just stupid (sorry) |
| 11:06 |
Zeno` |
You're a person, not a slave. Well, you are a slave, but don't give them 32 hour shifts. |
| 11:07 |
Zeno` |
I can't even think where a 32-hour shift is legal |
| 11:07 |
Zeno` |
you don't live in a country that lacks labor laws do you? |
| 11:14 |
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| 11:15 |
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| 11:15 |
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Ep1cMaN joined #minetest |
| 11:16 |
Ep1cMaN |
hi all, how could I make trees transparent and climbable? |
| 11:17 |
CWz |
olda zeno |
| 11:17 |
CWz |
is Zeno` man still here |
| 11:20 |
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| 11:25 |
Calinou |
Ep1cMaN, set walkable = false and climbable = true |
| 11:25 |
Calinou |
to leaves |
| 11:31 |
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norito joined #minetest |
| 11:32 |
Zeno` |
I am both here, and not here, CWz |
| 11:33 |
Tekken |
Zeno`: texas |
| 11:33 |
Zeno` |
Tekken, as I said I think you're crazy :( |
| 11:33 |
Tekken |
so does everyone else I work with |
| 11:34 |
Zeno` |
Tekken, what motivated you to try and kill yourself? |
| 11:34 |
Tekken |
not having a car |
| 11:34 |
Zeno` |
I'd rather have my health than a car :) |
| 11:34 |
Tekken |
health lol |
| 11:35 |
Zeno` |
I'm kind of surprised you were even allowed by your company to take a shift that long |
| 11:35 |
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| 11:35 |
Zeno` |
After a certain period your productivity would have been approaching zero (no matter what you think) |
| 11:35 |
Zeno` |
It was a waste of their money and your sanity |
| 11:36 |
Zeno` |
Can I ask what kind of job? |
| 11:36 |
Tekken |
networking |
| 11:36 |
Zeno` |
what manner of networking? networking as in computer systems? |
| 11:37 |
Tekken |
yea. security |
| 11:37 |
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| 11:37 |
Zeno` |
no wonder my internet has been so slow the last couple of days :( |
| 11:37 |
Tekken |
haha |
| 11:38 |
Zeno` |
see you've gone and broken Australia's internet! |
| 11:38 |
Zeno` |
this is terrible |
| 11:38 |
Calinou |
it was laggy already, now you made it non-working :D |
| 11:38 |
Zeno` |
:D |
| 11:38 |
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| 11:38 |
Tekken |
Zeno`: you're online. hush |
| 11:38 |
Zeno` |
just |
| 11:39 |
* Zeno` |
touches wood |
| 11:39 |
Zeno` |
seriously though... 36 hours?! |
| 11:39 |
Zeno` |
Did they give you that top-of-the-range BMW after you signed off the shift? |
| 11:40 |
Zeno` |
HAHA! I just realised what you did! |
| 11:40 |
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| 11:41 |
Tekken |
hmm? ;) |
| 11:41 |
Zeno` |
you slept 24 of the 36 hours hidden behind the pile of stationary |
| 11:41 |
Tekken |
don't tell my boss |
| 11:41 |
Zeno` |
lol, good man/woman |
| 11:42 |
Tekken |
I had sunglasses on |
| 11:42 |
Tekken |
pro sleeping |
| 11:42 |
Zeno` |
*nod* they can't see you if you wear sunglasses |
| 11:43 |
Zeno` |
I do it in style as well: http://www.metronaps.com/ |
| 11:43 |
Tekken |
when they sneak up behind me I just have a window open acting like I'm working |
| 11:43 |
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| 11:43 |
Zeno` |
I have my pod hidden in one of the network rooms that nobody ever visits. I once slept for a month (on the clock) |
| 11:44 |
Tekken |
lies |
| 11:44 |
Zeno` |
:( |
| 11:44 |
Zeno` |
the energypod has a "privacy visor" |
| 11:44 |
Zeno` |
kind of expensive sunglasses |
| 11:45 |
Tekken |
a fat guy doesn't count as a privacy visor |
| 11:45 |
Zeno` |
me? |
| 11:45 |
Zeno` |
I'll have you know that I'm as slim as a hippo! |
| 11:45 |
Tekken |
no. whoever stood in front of your pod |
| 11:46 |
Zeno` |
she was pretty slim also |
| 11:46 |
Tekken |
*he |
| 11:46 |
Zeno` |
*gasp* |
| 11:46 |
Zeno` |
I thought she looked a bit masculine |
| 11:46 |
Tekken |
haha |
| 11:46 |
Zeno` |
perhaps the beard should have given it away |
| 11:47 |
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| 11:47 |
Zeno` |
oh god |
| 11:47 |
Tekken |
2 more hours and my shift is over |
| 11:47 |
Zeno` |
I am having nightmares now and I'm not even asleep |
| 11:48 |
Tekken |
don't fall in that crack. you wont get back out |
| 11:48 |
Zeno` |
brb, getting some disinfectant |
| 11:51 |
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| 12:05 |
Megaf |
oh dear, I have just made a 100x100x100 nodes stone cube in my spawn. |
| 12:05 |
Megaf |
that's pretty bad |
| 12:08 |
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| 12:14 |
someguy_irc |
is irc.inchra.net down? |
| 12:14 |
red1 |
think so |
| 12:14 |
someguy_irc |
Okay. |
| 12:15 |
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| 12:16 |
someguy_irc |
CWz, did MTZ-Basic shutdown? |
| 12:16 |
red1 |
http://irc.lc/inchra/minetest/ ? |
| 12:16 |
Megaf |
that IRC network is down very often |
| 12:16 |
CWz |
mtz is now hosted by a deezl |
| 12:17 |
CWz |
inchra can reach at 176.9.29.178 |
| 12:17 |
someguy_irc |
MTD? |
| 12:17 |
someguy_irc |
port? |
| 12:17 |
CWz |
same |
| 12:18 |
someguy_irc |
ah was is 4446? |
| 12:18 |
CWz |
it's on at mtzeno.com |
| 12:18 |
someguy_irc |
okay |
| 12:18 |
twoelk |
http://www.inchra.net/ looks like some money is needed |
| 12:19 |
someguy_irc |
CWz, I was in MTD* 5 mins ago.. suddently it shutdown so I got frightened a bit xP |
| 12:20 |
CWz |
deezl has been running for a few days now |
| 12:29 |
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| 12:40 |
Ep1cMaN |
Anyone know how to have a server that privs are required for lava and water? |
| 12:45 |
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hawthorne joined #minetest |
| 12:46 |
hawthorne |
anyone know how to make minetestserver run at startup on debian? |
| 12:57 |
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| 13:05 |
Tekken |
throw pigs at debian |
| 13:06 |
* Megaf |
catches those pigs and eat them |
| 13:06 |
Megaf |
^ Tekken |
| 13:06 |
Megaf |
bold |
| 13:07 |
Megaf |
02,15This is a testy test. |
| 13:08 |
Jordach |
they come in fine, Megaf |
| 13:12 |
Megaf |
Anyone else on Diaspora? |
| 13:12 |
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| 13:13 |
Megaf |
< https://diasp.net/people/4bffeff0410f0132ef9700259050922f |
| 13:14 |
red1 |
no |
| 13:25 |
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| 13:27 |
Zeno` |
is inchra.net down? |
| 13:28 |
Amaz |
Zeno`, I think that the only problem is that the domain has expired. The website and server can be reached via 176.9.29.178 |
| 13:29 |
Zeno` |
hmm, ok. Thanks |
| 13:30 |
Zeno` |
MTZ-Basic (Onez' Server) is going down tomorrow. Deezl will be taking it over |
| 13:30 |
Zeno` |
unless I can't chat to him before then... if that happens I'll leave it up until I can |
| 13:31 |
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| 13:32 |
CWz |
Zeno`: deezl already has taken over |
| 13:33 |
ajaypay |
who is he? |
| 13:33 |
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| 13:35 |
* ajaypay |
says hi |
| 13:35 |
ajaypay |
hi |
| 13:36 |
Zeno` |
CWz, it's on his server? |
| 13:38 |
Zeno` |
He could have told me lol |
| 13:38 |
Zeno` |
anyway ssh indicates that it is indeed on his server. good stuff |
| 13:39 |
* Zeno` |
shuts his server down... goodbye old friend :( |
| 13:40 |
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| 13:43 |
AndroidKris |
so, in unified inventory, where it shows the recipe for whatever item you have selected, (i.e. bronze ingot), sometimes it gives multiple recipe's to create the item. The bronze ingot has two recipe's for "mixing" items to create it. It also has a cooking recipe, a crafting recipe, and an alloying recipe...I know how to cook, craft, and create alloy's...but how does one "mix"? |
| 13:44 |
RealBadAngel |
good question ;) |
| 13:44 |
RealBadAngel |
i dont remember who added "mixing" there |
| 13:45 |
RealBadAngel |
lemme check the code |
| 13:45 |
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| 13:45 |
AndroidKris |
Thank you, cause right now I have an autocrafter whos inventory is filling up quickly.lol |
| 13:46 |
RealBadAngel |
mixing is shapeless crafting just |
| 13:46 |
AndroidKris |
I can't get it to work in my own crafting grid though. |
| 13:46 |
RealBadAngel |
so the order you put ingreditiens on the crafting grid is not important |
| 13:48 |
* Zeno` |
cries |
| 13:48 |
Zeno` |
poor server. /me puts a stone on its grave |
| 13:49 |
RealBadAngel |
the recipe works when you try to craft it in regular crafting grid? |
| 13:49 |
RealBadAngel |
Zeno`, happens, just make new one :) |
| 13:51 |
AndroidKris |
RealBadAngel, no, the recipe doesn't work anywhere. Unified Inventory confirms that it is a legitimate recipe though. |
| 13:52 |
Zeno` |
RealBadAngel, I couldn't pay the hosting costs so I transferred the domain and let deezl download the database. I'm not really sad :) |
| 13:52 |
Zeno` |
20GB download and he downloaded it twice (I hope he doesn't have a quota lol) |
| 13:52 |
RealBadAngel |
AndroidKris, please fill in an issue about it |
| 13:53 |
RealBadAngel |
when i have some spare time i will try to solve it |
| 13:54 |
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| 14:00 |
AndroidKris |
I'll do it. sorry for the disconnect. |
| 14:00 |
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est31 joined #minetest |
| 14:35 |
ElectronLibre |
Quick question, maybe already asked, is InchraNet down, and if it is, why? |
| 14:37 |
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| 14:38 |
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| 14:38 |
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| 14:39 |
Calinou |
connect to osiris.inchra.net directly |
| 14:39 |
Calinou |
or if you're on IPv6: 2a01:4f8:150:31a2::2 |
| 14:40 |
ElectronLibre |
Ok, thanks. |
| 14:40 |
ElectronLibre |
I was browing my logs to find the IPv4 addresses of the servers. inchra.net is down too, so no server list. |
| 14:40 |
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| 14:41 |
est31 |
That about "use irc.inchra.net"... |
| 14:41 |
ElectronLibre |
s/browsing/reading and finding |
| 14:41 |
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| 14:41 |
ElectronLibre |
est31: Both are down. |
| 14:44 |
sfan5 |
* Connecting to irc.inchra.net (176.9.29.178:6697) |
| 14:45 |
sfan5 |
* Connecting to irc.inchra.net (67.241.151.78:6697) |
| 14:45 |
sfan5 |
here's the two i recently connected to |
| 14:46 |
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| 14:47 |
MinetestBot |
[git] TeTpaAka -> minetest/minetest: Add some missing getter functions to the lua API c0335f7 http://git.io/vkndm (2015-05-28T16:46:35+02:00) |
| 14:50 |
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| 14:53 |
technomancy |
so is it true there's no way to update the contents of a form without erasing in-process input? |
| 14:53 |
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| 15:04 |
Megaf |
$ rm map.sqlite (never go full retard) |
| 15:06 |
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| 15:12 |
xenkey |
hi |
| 15:13 |
red1 |
hello |
| 15:14 |
ElectronLibre |
Hello xenkey. |
| 15:14 |
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| 15:28 |
Jordach |
ello Kenney |
| 15:28 |
Kenney |
Hi there |
| 15:28 |
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| 15:28 |
xenkey |
ello fusion44 |
| 15:28 |
fusion44 |
hey xenkey |
| 15:29 |
xenkey |
sup |
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| 15:32 |
Kenney |
Alright, just negotiated a price with my pixel artist and agreed. |
| 15:32 |
Kenney |
that will speed up development on Voxus |
| 15:32 |
technomancy |
voxus? |
| 15:32 |
xenkey |
^ |
| 15:32 |
Kenney |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=10895 |
| 15:32 |
Kenney |
this thingy |
| 15:33 |
technomancy |
oh cool, vehicles? |
| 15:33 |
technomancy |
I'm doing a spaceship subgame, and this is relevant to my interests |
| 15:34 |
Kenney |
Yeah vehicles too |
| 15:35 |
technomancy |
also I like seeing minetest subgames that position themselves as just another game using the minetest engine instead of the way many come across as just mods |
| 15:35 |
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| 15:36 |
technomancy |
great job with the art so far |
| 15:36 |
xenkey |
Hello camp fire! Will light up if something is cooking - especially fond of the particles and crackling sound (which you can't hear in the screenshot). |
| 15:36 |
xenkey |
Made me laugh more than it should |
| 15:37 |
ElectronLibre |
Kenney, there is something troubling with your first post about VoXus, |
| 15:37 |
Kenney |
Yeah well the art will all go in the trash bin hah, it'll be replaced with better textures |
| 15:37 |
Kenney |
Oh? |
| 15:37 |
ElectronLibre |
"Hold up, it's still in heavy development." |
| 15:38 |
ElectronLibre |
I don't know about you, but a WIP subgame implies that it's still in development, even heavy development, |
| 15:38 |
ElectronLibre |
People downloading these subgames know what they are doing, what they risk. People might also want to see what's in the WIP section to see if they can contribute to it. |
| 15:39 |
Kenney |
Oh right I see what you mean |
| 15:39 |
Kenney |
my goal with Voxus is to offer a complete game, with enough content not to have to download dozens of mods to make it the least bit fun |
| 15:39 |
Kenney |
so the first version, in my opinion, should be a fully playable version |
| 15:40 |
ElectronLibre |
The first realease, yes. |
| 15:40 |
ElectronLibre |
But this WIP we're talking about. |
| 15:40 |
Kenney |
well yeah, even WIP release |
| 15:41 |
ElectronLibre |
Then it won't be WIP, it will be a release.. I personally understand WIP as : "Well, I'm working on something, here is my project, here is my code (through download or git). People, have fun crashing/doing whatever it will do with this!" |
| 15:41 |
technomancy |
it's hard when you have a very specific vision and you have people who want to contribute but don't fully understand the vision |
| 15:42 |
Kenney |
Right, so that's why I want to hold off releasing a WIP, concept, early access version until the game reflects my vision |
| 15:42 |
ElectronLibre |
That's what descriptions and to-do lists are about. |
| 15:42 |
technomancy |
cohesion requires a difficult balance |
| 15:42 |
ElectronLibre |
Also, don't accept contribution from anyone, explain why you won't merge it, or how to fix it and rework it in the concept. |
| 15:42 |
rom1504 |
you can't always specify everything before coding |
| 15:43 |
rom1504 |
(but yeah) |
| 15:43 |
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| 15:43 |
ElectronLibre |
You can controle what goes into YOUR code, you can't control what people want to add/remove/change into it. |
| 15:44 |
Kenney |
Oh no I absolutely let people completely free in adding, changing or removing whatever they like |
| 15:44 |
ElectronLibre |
Yes, in their version. |
| 15:44 |
Kenney |
Yeah, and maybe the content gets altered in my version too |
| 15:44 |
ElectronLibre |
But I meant in the code version you will then release (through contributions). |
| 15:44 |
Kenney |
Not sure I follow to be honest |
| 15:45 |
ElectronLibre |
My sentences are quite bad sorry. I will explain well : |
| 15:46 |
ElectronLibre |
You have a release copy of your code, you can control the development of this version, contributions, but when someone downloads it, you can't control what they want to do with it, any change they want to do. |
| 15:46 |
Kenney |
Here's my plan; Get the game to a state where it's basically playable and the vision of the game is clear (so a few items, few biomes, few monsters etc.), then start releasing updates and seeking help from the community to adding, changing or removing content. |
| 15:46 |
Kenney |
True |
| 15:46 |
ElectronLibre |
(Ok now is the moment I try to remember why we're talking about this) |
| 15:46 |
ElectronLibre |
Oh, yes. |
| 15:48 |
ElectronLibre |
So, if you release a pre-release, or just a view about what you've already done, you can easily do it, and maybe find help with contributors, while alerting users about the fact that it's WIP. |
| 15:48 |
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| 15:49 |
Kenney |
Yep BUT that would clash with the vision I have for my company, I've recently released a piece of software to the public as a WIP-version too. But the software is useable, contains little to no bugs and has plenty of content |
| 15:49 |
Kenney |
I wouldn't want to disappoint my customers by releasing something that is far from that state. |
| 15:49 |
Kenney |
even though the game is free |
| 15:51 |
Kenney |
also, publicity wise it's a good idea to hold off until it's something that people will be interested about. I could hold off from releasing and when releasing, have a fun and playable game which blogs and vloggers would write/make videos about. Or just release a game that isn't really playable and slowly release content and updates. |
| 15:51 |
Kenney |
I think the first one makes a bigger impact |
| 15:51 |
ElectronLibre |
So, fine, but I think you shouldn't post about it if 1) you don't look for people to help for the code/anything else 2) it's not finished yet and you won't post a preview. But anyway, do whatever you want. |
| 15:51 |
Amaz |
Have you thought about hosting a server with it on, so players can get an idea of what it's going to be like, without actually releasing it? |
| 15:52 |
sfan5 |
"give us a playable game or stfu" doesn't sound very welcoming, ElectronLibre |
| 15:52 |
ElectronLibre |
Oh, calm down, it's a minetest subgame we're talking about, not MC2.0. People won't probably be as interested by the upcoming release. |
| 15:52 |
Kenney |
It's not really in that state yet, there's nothing to craft, many blocks can't be mined yet - it's really nothing you'd even want to see beyond some screenshots |
| 15:52 |
ElectronLibre |
sfan5: I don't ask for playable, I ask for something. |
| 15:52 |
sfan5 |
ElectronLibre: well you have screenshots |
| 15:52 |
sfan5 |
that's "something" |
| 15:53 |
Kenney |
And well, I've always used this method to get people interested in my games. It works, that's why people release trailers, teasers, screenshots etc. |
| 15:53 |
Megaf |
Calinou: Can you please tell me again the sarch term for static site generators on github? |
| 15:53 |
ElectronLibre |
So, I don't ask for playable, I ask for WIP, which is the current state of the game. |
| 15:53 |
sfan5 |
what i meant by playable in this case is something you can use in minetest |
| 15:53 |
red1 |
kenney maybe you could make a video |
| 15:53 |
Amaz |
Kenney, you've shown it works very well! I can't wait to play it! |
| 15:54 |
ElectronLibre |
But even if it crashes at start up. |
| 15:54 |
sfan5 |
lolwat |
| 15:54 |
sfan5 |
ElectronLibre: what would be the purpose of a version that crashes at startup? |
| 15:54 |
Kenney |
I could stop posting updates on development, but that wouldn't really do any good - would it? |
| 15:54 |
Amaz |
No Kenney, please don't! |
| 15:55 |
Kenney |
I won't, that wouldn't make any sense really |
| 15:55 |
Amaz |
Phew :) |
| 15:55 |
Kenney |
the current playable version has nothing else than you see in the screenshots, there's literally nothing else. |
| 15:56 |
ElectronLibre |
I don't want to get frustrated because someone arrives and say "well, I've done something great, with good graphics and gameplay, I will keep improving it, but you won't see it until I finished." |
| 15:56 |
Zeno` |
gain and pitch are tricky |
| 15:56 |
sfan5 |
ElectronLibre: if you don't want to get frustrated don't look |
| 15:56 |
Zeno` |
the problem is that other people need to hear the gain and pitch as well so it will (probably) require an update to the protocol |
| 15:57 |
Zeno` |
if it wasn't for that it's very easy |
| 15:57 |
ElectronLibre |
That's like advertising, playing with people's nerves to download the game once it's finished.. |
| 15:57 |
sfan5 |
sheesh |
| 15:57 |
sfan5 |
ElectronLibre: nobody forces anyone to look at the thread |
| 15:57 |
ElectronLibre |
s/once/when |
| 15:57 |
Zeno` |
Kenney ^-- that was to you for FYI |
| 15:57 |
Kenney |
Yeah haha, writing reply... |
| 15:58 |
Zeno` |
perhaps we should add that to the next milestone |
| 15:58 |
Kenney |
Hmm, well, actually, for me personally that wouldn't be necessary. The ambiance sounds I'd like to play (and use the gain for) are player specific, since someone might be in a cave and someone else in the meadows. They're personal sounds that nobody else hears |
| 15:58 |
ElectronLibre |
sfan5: Which is why I will probably never use this game nor test it. |
| 15:58 |
Kenney |
BUT yeah the pitch one needs to change for everyone |
| 15:58 |
sfan5 |
ElectronLibre: ok, nice, but who cares? |
| 15:58 |
Zeno` |
for a local user it's very easy |
| 15:58 |
Kenney |
Could that be hacked in neatly? I know those two words clash haha but that would make awesome ambiances possible |
| 15:59 |
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| 15:59 |
Zeno` |
I have a half finished patch here... maybe the way forward is for me to make a PR and worry about other players later |
| 15:59 |
Zeno` |
oh it doesn't even need a "hack".. it's clean |
| 15:59 |
Zeno` |
OpenAL supports both pitch and gain fully so it's not messy at all |
| 16:00 |
Kenney |
Yeah I've checked that before requesting |
| 16:00 |
Calinou |
Megaf, you want some generators? Jekyll (Ruby), Void (PHP), … |
| 16:00 |
ElectronLibre |
At the beggining I went to the WIP section to see if I could help anyone, and I found this game. I had no sources, and no way to get in the code and improve it. So well, nobody cares, but I won't contribute nor use this. Now, I shut up. Have a good time developping this Kenney (that's not irony). :) |
| 16:00 |
Calinou |
Jekyll is AFAIK the one used by GitHub for its GitHub Pages service |
| 16:01 |
Calinou |
<Amaz> Have you thought about hosting a server with it on, so players can get an idea of what it's going to be like, without actually releasing it? |
| 16:01 |
Calinou |
I hope you're not including WorldEdit if you do that :P |
| 16:01 |
Kenney |
ElectronLibre: I totally understand your point, but it's just my way of interacting with users. The code is a total mess right now and that's just because I'm still figuring out the vision |
| 16:01 |
sfan5 |
Calinou: >PHP |
| 16:01 |
Calinou |
Kenney, also you have to understand that open source communities prefer open development, rather than development behind closed doors like Android |
| 16:01 |
Zeno` |
err I just looked at my patch |
| 16:01 |
Calinou |
most GNU/Linux distributions have a pretty open development process, and that's great |
| 16:01 |
Calinou |
(even if there's sometimes too much bureaucracy) |
| 16:01 |
Zeno` |
it would only be hacky if I tried to bypass the protocol bump |
| 16:01 |
ElectronLibre |
That's your choice. Anyway, it will be great when finished. |
| 16:02 |
Jordach |
((like the MT Devs)) |
| 16:02 |
Zeno` |
but there is a protocol bump coming up anyway so I'll discuss it with the other devs |
| 16:02 |
Kenney |
Understood Calinou, I will release an early version when there's something to show - at this moment, it's mostly just trying out code, textures etc. |
| 16:02 |
Calinou |
also consider developing on a VCS, even in the early stages |
| 16:02 |
Megaf |
Calinou: thanks |
| 16:02 |
Calinou |
that helps everyone :P |
| 16:03 |
Kenney |
I have no idea what a VCS is ;) |
| 16:03 |
sfan5 |
!g VCS site:en.wikipedia.org |
| 16:03 |
MinetestBot |
sfan5: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VCS |
| 16:03 |
Zeno` |
I have the original Star Wars on VCS tape |
| 16:03 |
sfan5 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revision_control |
| 16:03 |
Amaz |
I think it's a Version Control System, like git |
| 16:03 |
Zeno` |
err maybe that's VHS |
| 16:03 |
ElectronLibre |
Oh, yes, that also, |
| 16:03 |
ElectronLibre |
Git is great. |
| 16:04 |
sfan5 |
Zeno`: yes thats VHS |
| 16:04 |
Calinou |
what Amaz said, yes |
| 16:04 |
ElectronLibre |
You will love this thing, |
| 16:04 |
Calinou |
sometimes called SCM (Source Code Management) |
| 16:04 |
Kenney |
Ah right version control, yeah I absolutely hate working with those but I'm aware that I need to switch to that at some point |
| 16:04 |
Calinou |
Kenney, discover the power of Git branches and tags :) |
| 16:04 |
ElectronLibre |
And one day, wake up, look at 'history', and see 80% of your commands are git. |
| 16:04 |
Calinou |
if you use them right they're very helpful, even for one-man projects |
| 16:04 |
Kenney |
I'm developing a game with a guy that works at Ubisoft in Canada and we're actually working on Google Drive :P so yeah that shows how much I hate anything VCS |
| 16:05 |
Calinou |
it doesn't sound very professional to say that :P |
| 16:05 |
Kenney |
true, just need to get used to that |
| 16:05 |
sfan5 |
% cat .zsh_history | grep -a git | wc -l |
| 16:05 |
sfan5 |
404 |
| 16:05 |
Kenney |
Professional game development is a lot less professional than you'd think |
| 16:05 |
sfan5 |
git not found ;-) |
| 16:05 |
Calinou |
Kenney, that's pretty true |
| 16:06 |
Calinou |
to think that the Team Fortress 1. is still based loosely on Quake engine 2. started out as an amateur Quake mod |
| 16:06 |
Calinou |
it didn't even have hats back then! |
| 16:06 |
* Jordach |
gives Calinou a towering pillar of hats |
| 16:06 |
Kenney |
Woah, no hats? |
| 16:06 |
ElectronLibre |
sfan5, 1995 occurrences for 'git'. |
| 16:06 |
ElectronLibre |
Ouch... |
| 16:07 |
Kenney |
http://puu.sh/i3DfI/cc23a02de7.jpg |
| 16:08 |
Jordach |
4 minutes a frame under GPU accelerated rendering |
| 16:08 |
Kenney |
this is the art style we're loosely going for right now (the tree bark) |
| 16:08 |
Jordach |
time to spin up Amazon's GRID K520 |
| 16:08 |
sfan5 |
looks nice |
| 16:08 |
Zeno` |
cya's later. The latest Demtel episodes are on TV! |
| 16:08 |
Kenney |
Took a few things into consideration; 1 color palette, bright, fun, attractive, easy to edit/create new tiles, simple |
| 16:09 |
Calinou |
Kenney, https://lut.im/YzETFIyV/xaTJRP25 |
| 16:09 |
Calinou |
that's MegaTF coop |
| 16:09 |
Kenney |
Hah oh wow |
| 16:09 |
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| 16:09 |
red1 |
wow nice graphics |
| 16:10 |
Kenney |
g2g now, cya later guys |
| 16:10 |
sfan5 |
Calinou: the texture look very high res /s |
| 16:10 |
Calinou |
http://xpfree.org/epsilon/ if you're into cool graphics |
| 16:10 |
Calinou |
sfan5, hey, Minetest is 16×16 everywhere |
| 16:10 |
Calinou |
does that keep you from playing it? |
| 16:10 |
sfan5 |
minetest is a different thing |
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| 17:03 |
CWz |
in 400 years the government will be so corrupt they will force it's citizens to pay to breath and at birth would be device in lungs to either choke or change air breathing frequency. from premium air to low quality air. |
| 17:04 |
CWz |
^bullcrap on bun |
| 17:04 |
ElectronLibre |
I saw a children movie with a story like this, where a corporation was making people pay for oxygen, and nature was destroyed. |
| 17:05 |
CWz |
wow |
| 17:05 |
CWz |
than 10 years after that . pay for parts of brain use |
| 17:06 |
CWz |
aka brain tax |
| 17:06 |
ElectronLibre |
Or another one in the same style, where people's money was time, and when you got 0 seconds of time, you died. |
| 17:06 |
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| 17:06 |
CWz |
or pay per step |
| 17:07 |
hoodedice |
Pay $99.99 (BEST OFFER) for 15 litres of pure oxygen |
| 17:07 |
hoodedice |
Watch an Ad and get 50mL of Oxygen! |
| 17:07 |
ElectronLibre |
And in real life, I've heard about a shop in China which soled cans of Oxygen. |
| 17:07 |
ElectronLibre |
*sold |
| 17:08 |
hoodedice |
in any case, never gonna not use adblock ever again |
| 17:08 |
ElectronLibre |
Well, not exactly oxygen, but clean air. And the price was about 1$ when converted. |
| 17:08 |
hoodedice |
went to xda, mem consumption over 1.5 GB for three tabs, system went into swap |
| 17:08 |
VanessaE |
given how polluted it is there, I'm not surprised |
| 17:08 |
ElectronLibre |
Neither I was. |
| 17:08 |
hoodedice |
with adblock 5 tabs is 700MB, firefox |
| 17:09 |
hoodedice |
xda's state is like android - bloated, full of tracking behaviours, and outdated resources everywhere |
| 17:10 |
hoodedice |
<rant> android as a OS has failed, largely due to Google's intrusions and failures. It is definitely not a true GNU/Linux OS. You can't modify anything from the get go. I had to root my phone to make symlinks so that it won |
| 17:11 |
hoodedice |
*it won't fill up the shitty partitions htc decided to keep by default, which allowed me to install at most 15 third party apps |
| 17:12 |
VanessaE |
hoodedice: the rest of the world having tons of android phones disagrees with your "failed" premise. |
| 17:12 |
hoodedice |
why can't I format the partitions myself? Why can't I obtain ROMs without having to go through "developer sign ups"? Why do I have to "root" my phone to use a simple sudo command? |
| 17:12 |
hoodedice |
All of these are default on any GNU/Linux distro. |
| 17:12 |
VanessaE |
wrong. |
| 17:12 |
VanessaE |
er, sorta wrong. |
| 17:13 |
VanessaE |
not being able to do stuff like formatting, partitioning, and so on without root is a function of the carrier who made the phone. |
| 17:13 |
hoodedice |
yes, I might be wrong due to my half-assed understanding of Linux, and my simplistic language |
| 17:13 |
VanessaE |
THEY locked it down, not Android. |
| 17:13 |
hoodedice |
okay, what about nexus then? |
| 17:13 |
VanessaE |
what about it? |
| 17:13 |
hoodedice |
nexus is locked down as well fromt he get go. Easier to root and stuff, but locked down nevertheless |
| 17:14 |
hoodedice |
*the |
| 17:15 |
VanessaE |
it's still not Android doing it - it's the carrier/vendor (in this case, Google I guess) |
| 17:15 |
hoodedice |
and the thing that makes me most angry - Google's intrusions and low level app integration with the OS |
| 17:15 |
VanessaE |
and given how easy it is to fuck up, it's no surprise the phone has to be rooted first. |
| 17:16 |
hoodedice |
I mean, let me choose among your services. Why break the phone if I don't want GMail? |
| 17:16 |
hoodedice |
van, but at least keep the rooting process simple enough. With a shit phone that I have, I have to refer to outdated, half complete guides to do the bootloader stuff and root it |
| 17:16 |
VanessaE |
I dunno, you could just not set up gmail. |
| 17:17 |
hoodedice |
that is not a thing on android, the app exists anyway |
| 17:17 |
VanessaE |
so? |
| 17:17 |
hoodedice |
unless you remove ALL of google's services |
| 17:17 |
VanessaE |
I have a Galaxy S4 and gmail is not set up on it. it exists, but it does nothing. |
| 17:17 |
hoodedice |
and then you can't use the play store too |
| 17:17 |
hoodedice |
I just froze the app so it does nothing. I have a fix, but it is "hacky" |
| 17:18 |
VanessaE |
paranoia is not good for you. |
| 17:18 |
VanessaE |
I personally don't give two shits if the phone is tracked, marketed, and targeted. |
| 17:18 |
hoodedice |
and easily customizable? Riiiight. |
| 17:18 |
VanessaE |
what are they gonna do? Sell me something? BFD. |
| 17:19 |
hoodedice |
I don't care enough either, but the apps are shit. 150 MB for a web browser? Opera laughs in you faces |
| 17:19 |
hoodedice |
I felt that they were bloating it on purpose or somethign |
| 17:19 |
VanessaE |
... |
| 17:19 |
hoodedice |
</tinfoilhat> |
| 17:19 |
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| 17:20 |
hoodedice |
no really, give a me good reason why someone needs a quad core 2 gb ram phone at all, unless they are gaming |
| 17:21 |
hoodedice |
another thing - you get free upgrades till the OS support runs out for Win/Mac/Linux. On android? GG m8 git new phone |
| 17:22 |
hoodedice |
I'm done with google messing up with android. Bring back 2011 please |
| 17:22 |
hoodedice |
</rant> |
| 17:23 |
Sokomine |
hoodedice: if you manage to locate a good web browser for android, please forward it to me. javascript has to be disabled (enabling it for selected sites would be an option but isn't really required), and other tracking features have to be disabled as well |
| 17:24 |
hoodedice |
IIRC older versions of Opera had options to turn off JS |
| 17:24 |
Sokomine |
hoodedice: the bloating may not be on purpose. it's part of the normal process of development |
| 17:25 |
hoodedice |
Soko, I find that hard to believe. I have other clients that run with lower mem requirements |
| 17:25 |
Sokomine |
hmm. opera, yes perhaps |
| 17:25 |
hoodedice |
tinfoily, I suppose, but it made me mad |
| 17:25 |
Sokomine |
hoodedice: at least these high-power machines are good for running minetest |
| 17:25 |
hoodedice |
using cloudmagic for email now - not as private yes, but I have all my email on one client, and it looks better and integrates better with trello |
| 17:26 |
zat |
hmmmm: why not writing an official one? |
| 17:26 |
zat |
(documentation for v7 biomes) |
| 17:26 |
Sokomine |
my own smartphone isn't particulary smart anymore. it's a computer, and it's rarely connected to the net |
| 17:27 |
hoodedice |
Soko, there is no reason to make high powered machines, whether in mobile or PC or cars for racing. The problem is when people *have* to upgrade to not be bogged down because the new OS needs more resources |
| 17:27 |
hoodedice |
or some "new features" |
| 17:27 |
hoodedice |
*there is no reason to not |
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Sokomine |
hoodedice: hm, with android, it certainly comes in handy for the manufacturers that a new version requires a new phone to be sold... |
| 17:28 |
hoodedice |
sorry. High end machines are good for development. But they should be like PCs, where only a minority uses Intel Xeons |
| 17:28 |
Sokomine |
i don't mind having a phone with a lot of hardware ressources. that's good! always wanted small computers with low power consumption and no noise emitted |
| 17:29 |
Sokomine |
they're just...no longer something for doing phone calls, those modern phones |
| 17:29 |
hoodedice |
then again, even if I ignore hardware, the nature of android itself doesn't seem "GNU/Linux-y" |
| 17:29 |
hoodedice |
like I talked about earlier |
| 17:30 |
Sokomine |
installing a truely open source system on such a phone without the many drawbacks android has would certainly be great and highly welcome |
| 17:31 |
Sokomine |
zat: didn't paramat start some documentation of the biome stuff? i havn't done anything with them myshelf; just enjoy them in mapgens written by others |
| 17:31 |
zat |
Sokomine: its for its not stable enough |
| 17:31 |
zat |
its experimental |
| 17:31 |
Sokomine |
ah. many things are experimental :-) |
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hoodedice |
brb |
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hoodedice |
soko, newest opera doesn't have that feature (disabling JS) |
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mccomase |
Orb |
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Megaf |
[18:50] <hoodedice> soko, newest opera doesn't have that feature (disabling JS) |
| 18:14 |
Megaf |
it does |
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Megaf |
in settings search for javascript |
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Megaf |
hoodedice: did you manage to rot you android from Linux? |
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Megaf |
I'd like to root my android devices, but I'm not installing windwows dor that |
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rom1504 |
yeah now it's totally rotten |
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Megaf |
s/rot/soot |
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Megaf |
s/soot/root |
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rom1504 |
you don't need an other computer to root your android |
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Megaf |
what do you mean? |
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Megaf |
rom1504: can I root my phone from my phone? |
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rom1504 |
yes |
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Megaf |
how? |
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rom1504 |
type in google root "your model", follow instructions |
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hoodedice |
no Megaf, Windows |
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Megaf |
rom1504: anyway, I have a Motorola XT890 that bricket itself after and OTA update |
| 18:27 |
Megaf |
hoodedice: and good luck finding a way to root my old Motorola XT317 on Linux |
| 18:27 |
Megaf |
oops |
| 18:27 |
Megaf |
rom1504: and good luck finding a way to root my old Motorola XT317 on Linux |
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MinetestBot |
[git] kahrl -> minetest/minetest: Fix typo in variable name 0f15488 http://git.io/vkCyy (2015-05-28T20:47:15+02:00) |
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Pilcrow |
haha. this computer never stored my bash history, and I never delved into finding out why... turns out, ~/.bash_history was owned by root and not readable/writable by my normal user? strange. a simple chown fixed it, lol... |
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sofar |
evil person setup your user account :^) |
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Pilcrow |
sofar: this is a local install by me. I don't /think/ I'm evil... lol, I have no idea how the file got screwed up, but that's the only one I had the wrong permissions on... :P |
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JadenWolflez |
Hello! :3 |
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TeTpaAka |
TenPlus1: max_objects_per_block = 49 in minetest.conf.example |
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TeTpaAka |
wrong chat. |
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Pilcrow |
lol |
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rom1504 |
Pilcrow: you should do sudo chmod -R 777 / , it will fix all similar permissions problems |
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rom1504 |
(don't do this at home) |
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Pilcrow |
lol, open my entire filesystem up to the non-root account? sounds like a bad idea, man... :P |
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Pilcrow |
why don't I just put my computer/router setup into DMZ mode while I'm at it? :P |
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rom1504 |
that will actually break a lot of stuff that require to have less open permissions :P |
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rom1504 |
(yeah I know someone who did that :d) |
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Pilcrow |
well, I could've probably done chmod 777 ~/.bash_history instead, but chown was more right; that file /should/ be owned by the user... |
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Birdy_ |
hmmm |
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hoodedice |
? |
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