IRC log for #minetest, 2013-12-13

← Previous day | Channels | #minetest index | Today | Next day → | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time	Nick	Message
00:05		bas080 joined #minetest
00:14		EvergreenTree joined #minetest
00:14		OldCoder joined #minetest
00:18		whirm joined #minetest
00:20	EvergreenTree	o/
00:20	EvergreenTree	/wavebranch
00:32	EvergreenTree	Is anyone here?   It's like a graveyard
00:32	* EvergreenTree	throws kittens everywhere
00:33		bas080 joined #minetest
00:34	PandemoniuM	this is the kitten kickatorium
00:35	harrison	i am here but i suppose that is not exactly the news you were hoping for
00:36	* VanessaE	summarily ignores the bot
00:36	harrison	ah, so my plan succeeded! they think i am a bot!
00:38		werwerwer_ joined #minetest
00:39		Renoki joined #minetest
01:04	harrison	http://venturebeat.com/2013/12/12/bots-are-now-the-dominant-species-on-the-internet-study-says/
01:34	nhm	hello!
01:35	VanessaE	hi
01:35		Miner_48er joined #minetest
01:35	nhm	Is anyone familiar with the v.reader from vtech? I've been kind of thinking about scripted kids stories with highlighted words paired with something like minetest.  Stories about growing things that you participate in.  Teaching reading, and various subjects concurrently.
01:37	nhm	potentially you could have different worlds that the child can open and go to that teach about different things.  Volcanos, farming, polar habitats, gravity, mathematics, circuits, pistons, etc
01:39	VanessaE	interesting idea
01:39	VanessaE	easily done in Minetest since it's scriptable
01:40	VanessaE	a custom game would be needed, but that's trivial really
01:40	nhm	VanessaE: It's about as close as I think you can get right now to a Young Lady's Illustrated Primer.
01:40	VanessaE	the hard part would be limiting the user/child to only those activities that you want them to participate in
01:41	nhm	VanessaE: I think the goal would be to make it very free form, but encouraging certain activities.  IE, rewards for participation.
01:41	nhm	Maybe custom NPCs that provide rewards in game for completing certain activities.
01:42	VanessaE	then that would be dead easy to do
01:42	nhm	IE helping a farmer plant seeds and irrigate the crops.
01:43	nhm	I think the hardest part is building and populating the worlds, creating the stories and the cirriculum.
01:47		bas080 joined #minetest
01:49		iqualfragile joined #minetest
02:47	Exio4	This video contains content from BMG_Rights_Management, UMG, Warner Chappell, SACEM, PEDL and UMPI, one or more of whom have blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.
02:47	Exio4	fuck you
02:48	Exio4	why do you block a video when there are 15 more next to it with the same title..
02:51	NekoGloop	that would be the auto-flag-everything bot
03:04		bas080 joined #minetest
03:30		zat joined #minetest
03:33		zat joined #minetest
03:41		us}0gb joined #minetest
03:42		kizeren joined #minetest
03:42		NakedFury joined #minetest
04:14		Tx_Rushfan joined #minetest
04:14	Tx_Rushfan	Hi all
04:15	Tx_Rushfan	anyone else here?
04:15	NakedFury	working
04:15	ShadowNinja	Tx_Rushfan: No, only 100 ghosts.
04:15	Tx_Rushfan	lol
04:16	Exio4	100 ghosts? i would have same there were some zombies around!
04:16	Exio4	anyway, watching hannibal before going to sleep isn't that nice
04:16	Tx_Rushfan	http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s302/harvestr/Minetest/darkblocks.jpg?t=1386905832
04:16	Tx_Rushfan	what is causing the dark patches?
04:16	Tx_Rushfan	Whenever I lay down a region of nodes with worldedit this happens
04:17	Exio4	lighting bugs?
04:17	Tx_Rushfan	I love minetest but this is killer for me unless I find a fix
04:17	Exio4	well, we're all looking for a fix too :)
04:17	Tx_Rushfan	Are you saying it is a known bug and we are waiting for a fix. If so kk.
04:17	Exio4	sadly ^
04:17	* ShadowNinja	adds photobucket to his "evil sites" list.
04:18	Tx_Rushfan	LOL
04:18	Exio4	why evil site?
04:18	Tx_Rushfan	I'm game for a better alternative. its just a an account I set up years ago and use now and then.
04:18	Exio4	no site is evil with requestpolicy, noscript, ghostery, adblock and flashblock!
04:18	Exio4	(and it is the short list of addons!)
04:18	ShadowNinja	Exio4: Random ad over the whole page that you can't (easily) close until you've waited about 10s.
04:19	* Exio4	didn't see any random ad
04:19	Exio4	because man, this is the paranoic firefox profile
04:19	Tx_Rushfan	How old is this lighting bug
04:19	Exio4	Tx_Rushfan: how old is minetest?
04:19	Tx_Rushfan	Oh man no way
04:19	Exio4	as far as i know ;P
04:20	Tx_Rushfan	so how the heck can someone build anything other than just manually laying down a billion blocks?
04:20	Exio4	i don't play minetest
04:20	Tx_Rushfan	Anyone used another similar app that works?
04:20	NakedFury	adblock and ghostery to the rescue
04:20	Exio4	(and if you are even more paranoic, requestpolicy and noscript!)
04:20	NakedFury	plugin up your browser or stop interneting
04:21	Tx_Rushfan	I just need a minecraft-like app with creative mode for flying and unlimited blocks, good render distace and fast. I tried Terasology - looks great but slow render and map gen is strange.
04:21	NakedFury	well minetest works but yes that lightning bug is mega annoying
04:22	Exio4	Tx_Rushfan: if you didn't say fast i would recomend you minecraft
04:22	Exio4	also, who here doesn't use Stylish with a dark CSS theme
04:23	kizeren	I have not seen this lighting bug yet on my server/world.
04:23	kizeren	I guess I am lucky so far.
04:23	Tx_Rushfan	minecraft needs to be rewritten in C++
04:23	Exio4	it shouldn't
04:24	Tx_Rushfan	writing a 3d game, even one with just blocks in Java is like building a website as a powerpoint presentation.
04:24	NakedFury	I consider minecraft faster than minetest
04:24	Exio4	well, i would like to make a powerpoint presentation that gives me those million dollars
04:24	Exio4	and it is actually faster
04:24	Tx_Rushfan	I think minetest is much faster
04:24	NakedFury	faster, more fluid
04:25	Exio4	minetest is fucking slow
04:25	Exio4	and it is a known thing
04:25	NakedFury	yeah
04:25	Exio4	we're dealing with it since we know minetest
04:25	Exio4	and also, minecraft has a hell lot more of client-side prediction on the "gameplay" part
04:25	Tx_Rushfan	minetst flies for me compared to minecraft
04:25	Exio4	what gpu do you have?
04:26	Exio4	minetest runs slowly everywhere
04:26	Tx_Rushfan	core i5
04:26	Exio4	i said gpu Tx_Rushfan.
04:26	Exio4	... *
04:26	Tx_Rushfan	oh hell lol
04:26	Exio4	also, i5?
04:26	Tx_Rushfan	geForce 650ti I th ink
04:26	kizeren	Both minetest and Minecraft run slowly on my computer if both are running as client/server.  But if ran as just client.  Minetest seems faster. (FPS) that is.
04:27	Exio4	there are i5 that are shitty enough to get fucked by an underclocked FX 4100 and there are some that are fighting against the FX 8320
04:27	Exio4	Tx_Rushfan: you don't even know what is your gpu?
04:28	Tx_Rushfan	Well my 360 cube long aircraft carrier in Minectaft....I can't see it from bow to fantail (rear end)
04:28	Tx_Rushfan	view distance maxed
04:28	Exio4	maxed to what?
04:29	Tx_Rushfan	render distance:far
04:29	Tx_Rushfan	unless there is an addon to increase that more
04:29	kizeren	If your minecraft still uses "distance:far" then you are very outdated and need to update.
04:29	Tx_Rushfan	probably ya
04:29	Exio4	also, use optifine
04:29	kizeren	It does it by chunk distance now.
04:30	Exio4	noone actually uses MC without optifine ;P
04:30	kizeren	I do.
04:30	Exio4	it does?
04:30	Exio4	since when?
04:30	kizeren	Yea it does.
04:30	kizeren	1.7.*
04:30	* Exio4	is still using 1.6 because no bukkit release
04:30	Exio4	i only minecraft rarely in one server and it isn't updated yet
04:30	Exio4	(uber-ontopic to this channel!)
04:30	Tx_Rushfan	when I update MC, do I have to back up my files or are they safe
04:31	kizeren	THere is bukkit and spigot release for 1.7.* but is unstable and unsporrted.
04:31	kizeren	Always backup when updating anything.
04:32	Tx_Rushfan	I was just curious if the update autodeles stuff
04:33	kizeren	No.  But I think chance of chunk corruption so they say.
04:33	Exio4	oh man
04:33	Exio4	this is shit
04:33	Exio4	using my wifi, the max bandwidth i can achieve is 180kb/s between my fx and the android
04:33	Exio4	woo, 250!
04:34	Exio4	and i'm downloading files from the FX that are about 90 mb total
04:34	Exio4	:(
04:37		Nomeneiste joined #minetest
04:44	Tx_Rushfan	http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s302/harvestr/Minecraft/TxRushFanCarrier.jpg?t=1386909766  my full scale Nimitz class carrier done in MC. It still has a lot of work to be done like the tower and my custom textures reloaded
04:45	Tx_Rushfan	I was really hoping to rebuild it in Minetest but until the lighting issue is fixed......hmmmmm
05:05	Tx_Rushfan	.
05:05	Tx_Rushfan	bump  :P
05:25	us}0gb	What is the lighting issue, anyway? I haven't done much with Minetest lately due to my bogus graphics card.
05:32	Tx_Rushfan	oh hey, sorry
05:32	Tx_Rushfan	http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s302/harvestr/Minetest/darkblocks.jpg?t=1386905832 that!
05:32	Tx_Rushfan	when laying down large fields of node that happens
05:47		andrew3 joined #minetest
05:52	VanessaE	bbl
05:57		khor joined #minetest
06:12		SylvieLorxu joined #minetest
06:18		reactor joined #minetest
06:18		reactor joined #minetest
06:19	reactor	o/
06:49		bas080 joined #minetest
07:20		damir__ joined #minetest
07:28		Vohveli joined #minetest
07:57		matsetes joined #minetest
07:57	matsetes	Hi!
07:57	matsetes	Is there someone who uses technic mod?
07:58	reactor	Hang on in here.
07:58	reactor	Ask the same question in a couple hours, I remember someone from that timezone using it.
07:59	matsetes	Ok, thanks =)
08:00	VanessaE	hi
08:00	reactor	VanessaE: o/
08:01	VanessaE	how goes?
08:01	VanessaE	matsetes: what do you need to know?
08:03	matsetes	Oh, hi VanessaE !
08:03	VanessaE	hi :)
08:04	matsetes	How to change the mode of the mining drill
08:04	VanessaE	try shift-punch
08:05	VanessaE	(I didn't know it had different modes?)
08:05	matsetes	Yes! Thanks
08:06	VanessaE	sure thing
08:06	matsetes	Yes, mk2 and mk3 have different mode of mining
08:08	VanessaE	ah ok
08:09		ibloat joined #minetest
08:18	matsetes	Bye VanessaE and thanks =)
08:18	VanessaE	cya
08:18	VanessaE	yw
08:19	Miner_48er	why are there no recipes for laser mk2,3
08:19	VanessaE	I thought the new recipes cheapie and I had discussed were accepted?
08:19	* VanessaE	checks the commit history
08:20	VanessaE	huh.
08:20	VanessaE	guess not.
08:21	VanessaE	the plan is to re-balance the recipes for battboxes, mk1/2/3 drills and mk1/2/3 lasers and base them all around energy crystals and more exotic recipes with mese crystals and blocks
08:21	VanessaE	at least that's where the discussion went, not sure if that's what the ultimate decision was.
08:22	VanessaE	excuse me, Susurrus, not cheapie.
08:22	VanessaE	https://github.com/minetest-technic/technic/pull/116
08:22	VanessaE	and  https://github.com/minetest-technic/technic/issues/109
08:35		rsiska joined #minetest
08:43		xyz|real joined #minetest
09:04		hoodedice joined #minetest
09:04		hoodedice joined #minetest
09:04		hoodedice joined #minetest
09:05	hoodedice	Jordach!
09:05	hoodedice	VanessaE:
09:06	hoodedice	MinetestBot!
09:06	MinetestBot	hoodedice!
09:06	hoodedice	What?
09:06	VanessaE	hey hoodedice
09:06	hoodedice	It's my last day with a PC
09:06	VanessaE	and then what?
09:06	hoodedice	Wanna get that thing done with
09:07	hoodedice	No PC for an indefinite amount of time
09:07	xyz|real	why?
09:07	VanessaE	why?
09:07	hoodedice	Moving to the US =)
09:07	hoodedice	University
09:07	VanessaE	are you insane?
09:07	VanessaE	oh..
09:07	hoodedice	why lol?
09:07	VanessaE	well I guess
09:07	VanessaE	too much to go into here, at this hour.
09:07	hoodedice	Like, you thought for employment?
09:07	xyz|real	are PCs disallowed in US or something?
09:07	hoodedice	No, I don't have my own PC
09:08	xyz|real	ah
09:08	hoodedice	Have to buy one
09:08	VanessaE	ahhhh
09:09		xyz|imaginary joined #minetest
09:11	hoodedice	Anyway...
09:11	hoodedice	http://i.imgur.com/EAFPkHk.png
09:11	hoodedice	Still in progress
09:12	hoodedice	I can't get the crap to move to origin, and when it does, I can't get the grid under it
09:13	VanessaE	nice
09:13	VanessaE	I like that
09:15		Kray joined #minetest
09:20	MinetestBot	GIT: whateverxyz.is commited to minetest/minetest: Fix a bug in GenericCAO GENERIC_CMD_UPDATE_POSITION parsing. 67bf7130ce 2013-12-13T01:18:00-08:00 http://git.io/3ZGYqg
09:22		whirm joined #minetest
09:24	VanessaE	night all
09:24	hoodedice	Ciao
09:24	JamesTait	Good morning all; happy Friday the 13th, and happy Violin Day!  :-D
09:24	hoodedice	Jordach would be laughing at me right now
09:25	hoodedice	It's Friday the 13th?
09:25	VanessaE	oh shit
09:25	VanessaE	it IS friday the 13th isn't it
09:25	hoodedice	W00t
09:25	hoodedice	Yaay.
09:25	VanessaE	I think I'll just go to bed and stay there. :P)
09:25	VanessaE	:P
09:25	VanessaE	night all :)
09:26	JamesTait	Nigt VanessaE. :)
09:33		whirm joined #minetest
09:39	hoodedice	I need help texturing my model
09:39		smoke_fumus joined #minetest
09:42		aheinecke joined #minetest
09:46		deltib joined #minetest
10:14		proller joined #minetest
10:49		reactor joined #minetest
10:49		NekoGloop joined #minetest
10:49		rubenwardy joined #minetest
10:55		arsdragonfly joined #minetest
10:59		Gethiox4 joined #minetest
10:59	rubenwardy	https://forum.minetest.net/viewforum.php?id=14 is quite cluttered. I think everything that is not a "minetest-related project" should be moved
11:00	rubenwardy	For example: mod idea, general ideas, questions, google blocky
11:17	rubenwardy	!title https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=121881#p121881
11:17	MinetestBot	rubenwardy: Posting Guidelines (suggested draft) (Page 1) — Minetest-related projects — Minetest Forums
11:20		EdB joined #minetest
11:34		arsdragonfly joined #minetest
11:35		arsdragonfly joined #minetest
11:35		arsdragonfly joined #minetest
11:43		PandemoniuM joined #minetest
11:46		Gethiox joined #minetest
11:58		reactor joined #minetest
12:23		Wuzzy joined #minetest
12:29		Gethiox joined #minetest
12:32		reactor joined #minetest
12:43	kaeza	mornings
12:47		Gethiox joined #minetest
12:47	damir__	helIo
12:53		Jousway joined #minetest
13:06		proller joined #minetest
13:06		troller joined #minetest
13:18		EvergreenTree joined #minetest
13:24		hmmmm joined #minetest
13:25		proller joined #minetest
13:28		zat joined #minetest
13:38		RealBadAngel joined #minetest
13:44		Hirato joined #minetest
13:46	Hirato	is it just me or is latest git badly broken?
13:47	kaeza	Hirato, badly broken?
13:47	RealBadAngel	whats broken for you?
13:47	Hirato	it seems to think my GPU is incapable of OpenGL 1.2 :P
13:48		DeepGaze joined #minetest
13:48	Hirato	which is blatantly false, as my desktop is currently being composited with an OGL 3.0 core context :P
13:51	RealBadAngel	whats your os?
13:52	Hirato	Arch Linux, with 3.12 kernel and nvidia drivers
13:52	Hirato	https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23891252/minetest.png
13:53	RealBadAngel	i think i saw something like that already, but cant remember what was the reason
13:53	RealBadAngel	btw opengl has nothing to do with main menu
13:53	Hirato	the old build I have from 38 revisions back
13:54	Hirato	I'm sure it's related, the current build starts up with these messages in the log
13:54	Hirato	OpenGL driver version is not 1.2 or better.
13:54	Hirato	Warning: OpenGL device only has one texture unit. Disabling multitexturing.
13:54	Hirato	GLSL not available.
13:54	RealBadAngel	hmm, what driver are you using?
13:54	RealBadAngel	open or propertiary?
13:55	Hirato	nvidia, I thin kit's version 314.22, let me just confirm
13:55	Hirato	331.20
13:55	kaeza	Irrlicht version?
13:55	RealBadAngel	have you lately changed your drivers?
13:55	Hirato	havne't updated anything sicne my last reboot
13:56	Hirato	irrlicht version is 1.8.1
13:56	RealBadAngel	please try to get 1.7.3
13:56	RealBadAngel	and build with it
13:56	Hirato	that's a pain with arch ^^
13:57	sfan5	hm... why is my hungry games server always so crowded
13:57	RealBadAngel	1.8 is known of some weird errors
13:58	Hirato	rather odd it's not happening with the previous revision I built
13:58	proller	sfan5, android rush
13:59	Hirato	does minetest link dynamically or statically against irrlicht?
13:59	Hirato	just wondering if I sohuld rebuild minetest ^^
14:00	sfan5	Hirato: the headers change too..
14:00	RealBadAngel	1.8.1 is quite new, its not even a month old. i dont know how it can behave with mt
14:01	Hirato	makes me wonder when it came into Arch...
14:01	sfan5	proller: I'm getting many Guest[0-9]+ people
14:01	Hirato	if it's after Nov 30, that would explain it :P
14:01	proller	sfan5, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vicono.build
14:03	sfan5	aah.. I wish they would use someone else to translate it to german
14:03	sfan5	that is just..
14:03	RealBadAngel	i can see polish translation, its quite... strange
14:03	sfan5	'Buildcraft is based on Minetest car engine 0.4.8'
14:04	sfan5	game engine -> de = Spieleengine != Motor
14:04	Hirato	vroooom!
14:04	sfan5	I hope they kept the credits
14:04	Hirato	RealBadAngel: same result with irrlicht 1.7.3
14:05	RealBadAngel	"Enter any password to link the server"
14:05	RealBadAngel	Hirato, can you pastebin your logs?
14:06	Hirato	which ones?
14:06	RealBadAngel	as the game starts
14:06	Hirato	just debug.txt? or stdout?
14:06	RealBadAngel	from debug
14:07	sfan5	lol.. the nginx log of my hunger games remote_media server is already 58MB
14:08	Hirato	there's nothing remotely useful in it aside from the "OpenGL" stuff I posted above
14:08	Hirato	should I run ti iwth any flags?
14:10	sfan5	do you have any other video driver installed?
14:10	kaeza	sfan5, http://pastebin.com/akMiaR6e
14:10	Hirato	not that I know of
14:11	RealBadAngel	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7832
14:11	Hirato	if I did, I'm sure Kwin would have trouble compositing with a OGL 3.0 context, and tesseract would have trouble rendering at full speed using an OGL 4.0 core context
14:11	RealBadAngel	some other folks already had that problem
14:11	sfan5	kaeza: nah, it's ok
14:11	sfan5	I don't really care because all accounts get deleted every map reset anyway
14:12	kaeza	ah k :P
14:14	Hirato	lol, identical circumstances even
14:16		SylvieLorxu joined #minetest
14:17		ImQ009 joined #minetest
14:18	Hirato	I see I updated my compiler on december 6th, I wonder if that's related
14:25		Renoki joined #minetest
14:28	sfan5	lolwat.. DeepGaze put ''moderators don't perfect a community, only trim the ones who don't fit.'' in his signature now
14:28	Hirato	lol, what did you guys do to him?
14:31	kaeza	I see another case of "I'll post random spam and if others don't like it I'll blame the community; I'm never wrong"
14:31		zat joined #minetest
14:32	Hirato	RealBadAngel: I notice a small difference between the binaries from the last working revision and this broken one
14:32	Hirato	libGLESv2.so.2 => /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so.2 (0x00007f80166d7000) <-- the old working one doesn't have this in its ldd dump
14:34	sfan5	ah.. makes sense
14:34	sfan5	because it finds ogles libs it uses them.. and they don't work
14:34	sfan5	Hirato: disable ogles while compiling
14:34	Hirato	how?
14:34	sfan5	..
14:35	Hirato	doesn't look like there's a handy -DCMAKE... optoin for it
14:35	sfan5	comment out this line: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/CMakeLists.txt#L173
14:36	Hirato	173, got it
14:38	sfan5	if it works it would be nice if you'd make a post in both threads about the problem
14:38	sfan5	s/(.+)/\1 on how to solve it/
14:39		iqualfragile joined #minetest
14:39	kaeza	<random>s/(.+) is quite inefficient, it's better to use s/$/blah/ to append :P</random>
14:39	sfan5	ah.. right
14:39	* Hirato	wondersit definitely did the trick
14:39	Hirato	er.. it definitely did the trick
14:43	Hirato	though it's crashing when loading a world now :/
14:43	* Hirato	mucks around with thigns a bit more
14:44	kaeza	try running under gdb and see what happens
14:44	kaeza	it's better to recompile with -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug for that BTW
14:45	Hirato	alrady using debug builds :p
14:45	kaeza	ah k :P
14:45	Hirato	you guys are just making it really hard to maintain my PKGBUILD :P
14:45		NekoGloopMkII joined #minetest
14:46	Hirato	so I take it you lot have a gles renderer that takes precedence over regular OpenGL?
14:47	sfan5	Hirato: not the renderer, you would need ogles irrlicht for that
14:47	sfan5	but just linking to the libs apparently breaks something
14:47	Hirato	lol
14:47		milleja46 joined #minetest
14:48	Hirato	I would've expected irrlicht to drag in openGL itself
14:48		troller joined #minetest
14:48	Hirato	yay, it works
14:49	Hirato	so waht was this I read inthe changelog about "waving trees"? :P
14:50	sfan5	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0pqb_eVo5k
14:50	sfan5	look at that
14:50	kaeza	trees greet you when you go near them
14:50	* kaeza	runs
14:50		rsiska joined #minetest
14:50	Hirato	just like real life when you take acid
14:50	Hirato	er.. I just forgot to turn it on in options ^^
14:51	kaeza	it sucks when your graphics card is too shitty to support those effects ;_;
14:51	Hirato	lol, it looks like a simple vertex shader
14:51	RealBadAngel	make sure you have up to date minetest_game
14:52	RealBadAngel	ofc it is simple vertex shader
14:52	Hirato	so yeah, any OGL 1.5 GPU sohuld support it :p
14:53	Hirato	BETTER WATER THAN SKYRIM
14:53	sfan5	:D
14:53	RealBadAngel	better water is a thing to come
14:53	Hirato	it's true, skyrim water is completely flat :P
14:55	RealBadAngel	http://i.imgur.com/WScbi4Z.png
14:55	sfan5	RealBadAngel: what amount of video mem do you recommend for minetest?
14:55	RealBadAngel	i do have 2gb
14:56	RealBadAngel	and rather old GPU
14:56	Hirato	lol, looks very modern
14:56	iqualfragile	sfan5: is there finaly real lighning in minetest?
14:56	sfan5	iqualfragile: not yet :P
14:56	iqualfragile	daww
14:56	iqualfragile	remove_craft_recepie implemented yet?
14:56	Hirato	but I think effort should be spent on realtime lighting stuff so we can wlak around with torches :P
14:57	iqualfragile	Hirato: its not about wallking around with torches
14:57	sfan5	RealBadAngel: will this do? http://www.reichelt.de/PCI-Express-Grafikkarten/ASUS-5450-2048/3//index.html?ACTION=3&amp;GROUPID=6178&amp;ARTICLE=133673&amp;SHOW=1&amp;OFFSET=500&amp;
14:57	kaeza	oh it was an outdated mt_game :|
14:57	iqualfragile	its about having real lightsources and therfore beeing able to really use shaders
14:57	kaeza	or rather, my minimalistic game based off mt_game
14:57	Hirato	iqualfragile: being able to see in the dark by holdign a burning stick is very important to my immersion!
14:58	Hirato	:P
14:58	iqualfragile	Hirato: you might need to think about aquiring better eyes and/or monitor
14:58	damir__	holding torches would be very nice yes
14:58	Hirato	better monitor probably, CRTs don't display blacks nearly as brightly as LCDs
14:59	Hirato	left behind in the stone age of computing
14:59	iqualfragile	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxvH_v37U04
14:59		zsoltisawesome joined #minetest
14:59	zsoltisawesome	ooooooh
14:59	zsoltisawesome	i guess he hates me now
15:00	* Hirato	sits back with a box of popcorn
15:00		PilzAdam joined #minetest
15:00	PilzAdam	Hello everyone!
15:00	zsoltisawesome	AAAAAAAaaaaahhhh.....
15:01	zsoltisawesome	Oh hi!
15:01	iqualfragile	oh, gdamn
15:01	RealBadAngel	sfan5, it is newer than mine
15:01	iqualfragile	who the fück runns this bot?
15:01	RealBadAngel	so will do for sure
15:01	iqualfragile	could somebody please ban it?
15:01		reactor joined #minetest
15:02	sfan5	:D
15:02	sfan5	with 60 fps too?
15:02	zsoltisawesome	what bot
15:02	Hirato	oh yeah, are you guys aware that -DRUNINPLACE=0 just doesn't work probably with global mods/content in the main menu?
15:02	RealBadAngel	i have 40-50fps with all shader options on and 256x TP
15:02	zsoltisawesome	wow
15:03	zsoltisawesome	thats like amazing
15:03	iqualfragile	seriously this is spamming
15:03	iqualfragile	remove the bot, please
15:03	zsoltisawesome	what is
15:03	zsoltisawesome	what bit
15:03	* sfan5	bookmarks that gfxcard
15:03	zsoltisawesome	*bot
15:03	Hirato	I'm pushing 36 FPs with the current shaders, thing is, turning nthem off isn't going to raise it much :P
15:03	* zsoltisawesome	wants to steal that gfxcard
15:04	sfan5	zsoltisawesome: well then you need to drive to Sandern, Germany and break into the Reichelt warehouse
15:04	sfan5	or just buy it
15:04	sfan5	36€ isn't much for a gfx card
15:04	Hirato	sides, minetest seems to hate being run i na compositor, that just kills framerate from my experience, unless that got fixed
15:05	iqualfragile	zsoltisawesome: please repeat after me the exact word: "katoffelsalat" to proove that you are no bot
15:05	zsoltisawesome	sadly, there is no Trans-Atlantic Bridge yet
15:05	zsoltisawesome	katoffelsalat
15:05	reactor	Lol, desktop effects.
15:05	iqualfragile	hmm… lets make this a bit harder
15:06	zsoltisawesome	I have a PTB
15:06	iqualfragile	banana and remove the first letter of the alphabet
15:06	zsoltisawesome	this is the legit me
15:06	Hirato	reactor: it's not modern unless you're playing doom in halls of interactive walls displaying minetest!
15:06	reactor	They contribute neither to eye candy nor productivity.
15:06	RealBadAngel	sfan5, mine was worth circa 100eu when i bought it a few yrs ago
15:06	pitriss	iqualfragile: make it simpler.. Just let ban this spamer:D
15:06	reactor	s/modern/hipster/
15:06	zsoltisawesome	iqualfragile: like bnn?
15:06	iqualfragile	good, so you are just a spammer and no bot
15:06	Hirato	reactor: that was a joke, you underestimate how much it helps general responsiveness
15:07	iqualfragile	which makes it worse
15:07	sfan5	lol
15:07	RealBadAngel	Hirato, if you really wanna test the shaders, try this texture pack: http://realbadangel.pl/minetest/HavenNG/HavenNG_256x.zip
15:07	reactor	*sarcasm self-test completed
15:08	zsoltisawesome	guys, does anyone know the cheapest TLD?
15:08	Hirato	if I extract this in ~/.minetest, will that override the stuff installed in /usr/share/minetest?
15:08	iqualfragile	.tk
15:08	iqualfragile	its free
15:08	iqualfragile	Hirato: you need to unzip it in textures i guess
15:08	zsoltisawesome	lol
15:09	zsoltisawesome	thats what im using XD, its not very well known
15:09	RealBadAngel	in /textures folder
15:09	zsoltisawesome	http://www.harpnet.tk
15:10	PilzAdam	iqualfragile, wheres a bot?
15:10	iqualfragile	PilzAdam: turns out ist just a spammer which had a bot running once
15:10	iqualfragile	zsoltisawesome would be his name
15:10	zsoltisawesome	i was testing a lame little bot
15:11	PilzAdam	zsoltisawesome, this is not a test channel
15:11	zsoltisawesome	i know
15:11	Hirato	everyone knows it's not true parallax mapping unless the surface visibly distorts and moves around as you look at it ;)
15:12	zsoltisawesome	it kept switching channels
15:12	zsoltisawesome	then it hit an error
15:12	zsoltisawesome	and pretty much self distructed
15:13	RealBadAngel	Hirato, ? what do you mean?
15:13	Hirato	it's a visual artefact from heightmaps
15:13	Hirato	usually from being too strong
15:13	RealBadAngel	ah that, steep parallax will fix that
15:14	Taoki	PilzAdam: I was wondering if you're still working on the simple mobs system. Noticed there are no more updates on its GIT. Still following that interested
15:14	RealBadAngel	also silhouette clipping shall be added there
15:14	PilzAdam	Taoki, Im not really working on it anymore
15:14	PilzAdam	but there is a "fork" of it in Nodetopia
15:15		Megaf joined #minetest
15:15	Taoki	ok
15:15	Taoki	That means it's no longer considered for being added to builtin either?
15:15	zsoltisawesome	Oh, Hello Megaf
15:15	RealBadAngel	Hirato, i can suggest tuning setting for parallax a bit
15:15	iqualfragile	Taoki: take a look at the latest mobf version it realy improved a lot
15:15	iqualfragile	performance wise
15:15	Hirato	heh, sure
15:15	Megaf	Hi all
15:15	reactor	OldCoder: o/
15:15	Taoki	ok. Still liking the simple mobs framework more myself
15:16	zsoltisawesome	how does one find out the last time a person was on the channel?
15:16	OldCoder	reactor, Well, hello
15:16	OldCoder	zsoltisawesome, who?
15:16	iqualfragile	btw: does anybody know why the fück minetest is that slow with transparency?
15:16	PilzAdam	Taoki, it was never considered to be added to builtin
15:16	OldCoder	Anybody in particular?
15:16	* Taoki	nods
15:16	OldCoder	Bots may have features zsoltisawesome but I can tell you
15:16	Hirato	if I have any comments regarding the shaders, what's with the "specularity" near the crosshair?
15:16	reactor	I am not a bot.
15:16	OldCoder	reactor, indeed
15:17	OldCoder	I was speaking to zsoltisawesome regarding his question
15:17	OldCoder	Hmm
15:17	Taoki	Hirato: Since there's no dinamic lighting yet, a fake light is used. Probably it follows the player
15:17	OldCoder	But I had best get to work
15:17	Hirato	surely at least the sun could be used?
15:17	RealBadAngel	Hirato, add this to your config http://pastebin.com/zXCSm4L8
15:18	Hirato	aren't you setting the same var twice?
15:18	Taoki	Anyway, BBL
15:18		proller__ joined #minetest
15:18	RealBadAngel	ooops
15:18	Hirato	just tell me the name of the other one :P
15:19	RealBadAngel	http://pastebin.com/eVw6JS9n
15:20	RealBadAngel	and oops again
15:20	RealBadAngel	lmao, hold on
15:20	* Hirato	sighs :P
15:22	RealBadAngel	you have just found a bug, config example is not updated :(
15:22	RealBadAngel	shit
15:22	Hirato	lol
15:23	Hirato	looks like the defautls are 0.08 and 0.04
15:23		john_minetest joined #minetest
15:23		john_minetest joined #minetest
15:23	Hirato	and the names are parallax_occlusion, not parallax_mapping ;o
15:24	RealBadAngel	parallax_occlusion_scale = 0.06
15:24	RealBadAngel	parallax_occlusion_bias = 0.03
15:24	RealBadAngel	add those lines
15:26	Hirato	you can barely see it
15:26	Hirato	this reminds me
15:26	Hirato	why does minetest save screenshots in the current directory, and not in ~/.minetest ?
15:27	RealBadAngel	you can play with those settings
15:27	Hirato	https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23891252/screenshot_3968811630.jpg Wheeeee~!
15:27	RealBadAngel	lol
15:28	Hirato	now there's the parallax mapping I love to hate
15:28	RealBadAngel	what have you applied there?
15:28	Hirato	scale == 1
15:28	RealBadAngel	ROTFL
15:28	RealBadAngel	no wonder
15:28	RealBadAngel	almost all examples out there suggest values like 0.04 :P
15:29	Hirato	my engine of choice defaults to 0.06 and -0.03
15:29	Hirato	i'm not sure if those values have the same effect though
15:29	Hirato	since they seem to affect the range of visual offset there
15:30	RealBadAngel	0 means effect off
15:30	RealBadAngel	0.1 is for very strong effect
15:31	RealBadAngel	usable values are in between
15:31	Hirato	so you enforce a min value of 0?
15:31	iqualfragile	Hirato: i see that acid made it into minetest
15:31	RealBadAngel	no, its not enforced, its how it works
15:31	Hirato	minecraft still has a better acid trip though :(
15:31	Hirato	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpksyojwqzE
15:32	sfan5	lol.. the GEMA didn't like the music in that video
15:32	RealBadAngel	with negative vaules you will probaply walk opposite way on eye vector
15:33	Hirato	that is kind of the idea with them, -0.03 was meant to state that values of 85 is neutral in the heightmap, with lower vlaue going in, and higher ones coming out
15:33	Hirato	(as the other value is 0.06)
15:34	thexyz	sfan5: you should start writing decentralized p2p youtube clone
15:34		Gethiox joined #minetest
15:34	sfan5	thexyz: maybe tomorrow
15:34	thexyz	make sure it'll support .ass subtitles tho
15:34	Hirato	so torrents with sequential downloading?
15:34	sfan5	it will use burned-in subtitles /s
15:35		EvergreenTree joined #minetest
15:35	thexyz	hardsub D:
15:35	Hirato	and they'll be russian subs!
15:35	Hirato	and also completely wrong to annoy the russians
15:36		EvergreenTree_ joined #minetest
15:37	thexyz	well
15:37	thexyz	russiam subs for the new madoka are better than engrosh ones
15:38		EvergreenTree joined #minetest
15:39	Hirato	you'd know wouldn't you, you filthy commie ;)
15:39	thexyz	it was translated by some chinese dude I think
15:39	thexyz	why much hate
15:39	thexyz	do you not remember communistcraft?
15:40		rubenwardy joined #minetest
15:40	Hirato	RealBadAngel: just wondering, does the engine allow large texture block tetxures to be split over multiple blocks?
15:40	rubenwardy	Hi all
15:40	sfan5	Hirato: no
15:40	Hirato	awh
15:40	rubenwardy	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7998
15:40	iqualfragile	Hirato: no, but that would be great
15:40	rubenwardy	!title
15:40	MinetestBot	rubenwardy: Posting Guidelines (suggested draft) (Page 1) — Minetest-related projects — Minetest Forums
15:40	iqualfragile	hi rubenwardy
15:40	Hirato	i imagine tiling would be a pain
15:41	RealBadAngel	textures are always tiled with block size
15:42	Hirato	i'm just wondering if there's a way to make them tile over 2x2x2 blocks, as opposed to 1x1x1 :p
15:42		diemartin joined #minetest
15:42	Hirato	as an example
15:43	rubenwardy	kaeza: PM
15:48	iqualfragile	Hirato: that would be quite much as complex as generic tiling
15:51	sfan5	RealBadAngel: bump maps need to be <name_without_ext>_bump.<ext> right?
15:52	RealBadAngel	no
15:52	RealBadAngel	default_stone_normal.png
15:52	RealBadAngel	for example
15:52	sfan5	ok, thx
15:53	RealBadAngel	normal map should be rgba
15:53	RealBadAngel	rgb holds normalmap, alpha channel is for height
15:53	Hirato	awh, no explicit heightmap support? :P
15:53	Hirato	most engines just copy the heightmap directly into the alpha channel anyway, if they're provided separately, haha
15:54	RealBadAngel	no point in having multiple files if all can be done in one file
15:55		SylvieLorxu joined #minetest
15:56	RealBadAngel	really?
15:56	RealBadAngel	i suggest asking uncle
15:56	RealBadAngel	rgba format is most common :P
15:56	Hirato	yeah
15:56	Hirato	RGB normal + grayscale height == RGBA normal in memory
15:57		zsoltisawesome joined #minetest
15:57		rubenwardy joined #minetest
15:59	RealBadAngel	the other thing is number of files, imagine texture packs that have thousands of textures
15:59	zsoltisawesome	hey, does the airlike flag turn a node transparent?
15:59	Hirato	with explicit support, it's their choice if they combine them themselves or not :p
15:59	PilzAdam	zsoltisawesome, airlike flag?
16:00	zsoltisawesome	like on a node
16:00	PilzAdam	zsoltisawesome, there is only an "airlike" drawtype
16:00	zsoltisawesome	i meant that
16:00	Hirato	I don't really care - should probaly consider using sub directories for different mods in the textures
16:00	zsoltisawesome	erm silly me
16:00	PilzAdam	zsoltisawesome, yea, that makes the node invisible
16:00	zsoltisawesome	ok cool
16:01	RealBadAngel	Hirato, makin them in separate files is pointless. and uses double amount of memory.
16:02	zsoltisawesome	do you have to use a texture on airlike drawtype nnoes?
16:02	zsoltisawesome	*nodes?
16:02	RealBadAngel	because you will end with rgb and not used a, then from heightmap you will use just one channel
16:02	Hirato	it uses slightly more at best, you're meant to combine them when loading them
16:03	RealBadAngel	tell me again whats the point for that if i can select an option in gfx app to save them together?
16:03	* Hirato	shrugs
16:03	Hirato	it's jsut how everything I've ever worked with does it
16:03	RealBadAngel	make the code more complicated just? :)
16:04	Hirato	loading code, yes :p
16:04	sfan5	o.O http://i.imgur.com/SXkU6A1.png
16:04	RealBadAngel	every application to create normal maps allows that
16:04	Hirato	sides, the heightmap is grayscale, you could easily store that in an GL_R8 if you decide not to combine them :P
16:04	RealBadAngel	crazybump, gimp plugins etc
16:05	RealBadAngel	its pointless to have splitted maps just for sake of having them splitted and later on merge them
16:05	Hirato	this remidns me, why do image editors make it so difficult to just mess around with a single channel
16:06	zsoltisawesome	do this look tight to you all: https://github.com/lordcirth/moontest/blob/master/init.lua
16:06	zsoltisawesome	*right
16:07	zsoltisawesome	anyone?
16:16		ImQ009 joined #minetest
16:19	zsoltisawesome	make coffee
16:19		proller__ joined #minetest
16:19	kaeza	make: *** No rule to make target `coffee'.  Stop.
16:20	EvergreenTree	plol
16:20	Hirato	kaeza confirmed for bot?
16:20	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:20	zsoltisawesome	make pie flavored pie
16:22	zsoltisawesome	make: *** No rule to make target `pie'.  Stop.
16:23	kaeza	what
16:23	zsoltisawesome	what what
16:23		Jordach joined #minetest
16:23	EvergreenTree	o/
16:23	Jordach	o/
16:23	* kaeza	randomly pokes Jordach
16:24	Jordach	i found a few bugs with my model while at college
16:24	Jordach	fixed em there and then
16:24	EvergreenTree	make me a sandwich
16:24	EvergreenTree	make: *** No rule to make target `me'.  Stop.
16:24	EvergreenTree	aww, dangit
16:25	kaeza	they also removed `love' :(
16:25	zsoltisawesome	ya
16:26	Jordach	JordachTeslaBolt: $ make tea
16:26	Jordach	make: *** No teabags to make target 'tea'. Stop.
16:26	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:27	EvergreenTree	Also, if you have the lua 2d engine "love" installed, type "love into the terminal and you'll get a nice pink rubber piggy
16:27	* kaeza	teabags Jordach
16:27	kaeza	http://i1.cpcache.com/product_zoom/160819300/unix_commands_tshirt.jpg?height=250&amp;width=250&amp;padToSquare=true
16:27	kaeza	EvergreenTree, Löve*
16:28		ImQ009 joined #minetest
16:28	zsoltisawesome	derp
16:29	zsoltisawesome	since i dont have a native Linux machine in the area, i use this http://bellard.org/jslinux/
16:29	Jordach	please don't type yes into the terminal
16:29	Jordach	it just prints Y indefinitely
16:29	kaeza	duh
16:30	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:30	zsoltisawesome	waoh
16:30	zsoltisawesome	but no doesn't work XD
16:30	kaeza	Jordach, it's used for programs which ask for confirmation and don't have a "-q" or "--quiet" or similar option handy
16:30	zash	yes nyan nyan nyan nyan nyan
16:30	zsoltisawesome	BusyBox v1.18.3 (2012-01-11 21:43:37 CET) multi-call binary.
16:30	zsoltisawesome	Copyright (C) 1998-2009 Erik Andersen, Rob Landley, Denys Vlasenko
16:30	zsoltisawesome	and others. Licensed under GPLv2.
16:30	zsoltisawesome	See source distribution for full notice.
16:30	zsoltisawesome	Usage: busybox [function] [arguments]...
16:30	zsoltisawesome	or: busybox --list[-full]
16:30	zsoltisawesome	or: function [arguments]...
16:31	kaeza	yes | program
16:31	Jordach	lol
16:31	Jordach	Excess Flood
16:31	kaeza	or like zash said :P
16:31	zash	Pro-tip: Be *very* careful if your irc client allows piping the output of commands into a channel
16:32		zsoltisawesome joined #minetest
16:32	zsoltisawesome	my clipboard didnt clear
16:32	zsoltisawesome	oops
16:32	zsoltisawesome	what i meant to say was /bin # no
16:32	zsoltisawesome	sh: no: not found
16:32	reactor	Jordach: that program is there on purpose.
16:33	reactor	Jordach: it's used to repeat input.
16:33	zsoltisawesome	yes > no
16:33	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:33	reactor	The typical usage is "yes [REPEATED INPUT HERE] | [PROGRAM HERE]".
16:34	zash	Jordach: like if a program asks a lot of yes/no questions and you want to answer yes to all of them
16:34	zsoltisawesome	just say yes!
16:34	zsoltisawesome	XD
16:34	reactor	zsoltisawesome: no point in separate "no" program.
16:34	reactor	You can use "yes n"
16:34		smoke_fumus|2 joined #minetest
16:34	zash	alias no='yes n' :D
16:34	reactor	Hello, john_minetest
16:34	zsoltisawesome	i know
16:34	reactor	How's the science?
16:34	zsoltisawesome	i just figured that out
16:36	thexyz	john_minetest: sam, i think
16:36	EvergreenTree	Sam Has sort of become his name
16:37	OWNSyouAll	here come the net splits
16:37		q66 joined #minetest
16:37	PilzAdam	sfan5, op party now?
16:37	sfan5	not enough netsplit
16:37	sfan5	we need ChanServ to netsplit for an OP party
16:38	zsoltisawesome	whats netsplit?
16:38	sfan5	zsoltisawesome: whats google?
16:38	PilzAdam	sfan5, how do we get op then?
16:38	kaeza	yay my kaeza account is on one side and diemartin is on the other side
16:38		diemartin joined #minetest
16:38		iqualfragile joined #minetest
16:38		Renoki joined #minetest
16:38		RealBadAngel joined #minetest
16:38		xiong joined #minetest
16:38		MinetestBot joined #minetest
16:38	zsoltisawesome	:|
16:38	sfan5	PilzAdam: MinetestB... oh
16:38	reactor	zsoltisawesome: pwned.
16:38	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:38	reactor	!title
16:38	MinetestBot	reactor: Document isn't HTML
16:38	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:38	sfan5	we can only have op party if chanserv netsplits and MinetestBot stays here
16:39	thexyz	why do you always !title stuff with .png at the end?
16:39	reactor	MinetestBot: You aren't smart
16:39	kaeza	lol Jordach
16:39	kaeza	john_minetest, ^
16:39	sfan5	MinetestBot is smart!
16:39	sfan5	<3 MinetestBot
16:39	MinetestBot	<3 sfan5
16:39	PilzAdam	in soviet russia png !titles you
16:39	EvergreenTree	lol
16:39	reactor	No.
16:39	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:39		zsoltisawesome was kicked by ShadowBot: Message repetition flood detected.
16:39	sfan5	hahahaha
16:39	EvergreenTree	bwahahah
16:39	reactor	In Stoned Russia, title !pngs you
16:39	PilzAdam	good ShadowBot
16:39	* sfan5	pets ShadowBot
16:40		zsoltisawesome joined #minetest
16:40	reactor	zsoltisawesome: pwned
16:40	* EvergreenTree	throws a kitten at ShadowBot
16:40	* sfan5	puts a kitten on EvergreenTree's head
16:40	thexyz	what the hell?
16:40	reactor	Siberia*
16:40	zsoltisawesome	reactor: :|
16:40	* john_minetest	puts a kitten on EvergreenTree's head
16:40	reactor	*SNEEZE*
16:40	reactor	Stop mentioning animals, will you?
16:41	thexyz	ShadowNinja: your bot is bullying people, please do something
16:41	* zsoltisawesome	metions animals
16:41	EvergreenTree	/s/head/treetop
16:41	* sfan5	puts Derpy Hooves on reactor's head
16:41	PilzAdam	thexyz, he said "lol" 3 times in a row
16:41	thexyz	PilzAdam: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2013-12-13#i_3487506
16:41	zsoltisawesome	i had nothing else to say
16:41	sfan5	>%D0%A2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B5%D1%82.JPG
16:41		john_minetest was kicked by ShadowBot: Message repetition flood detected.
16:41		john_minetest joined #minetest
16:41		john_minetest was kicked by ShadowBot: Message repetition flood detected.
16:41	zsoltisawesome	haha
16:41	thexyz	I guess freenode borked?
16:42		john_minetest joined #minetest
16:42	EvergreenTree	lollollollollollollollollollol
16:42	EvergreenTree	lol
16:42	sfan5	meow
16:42	EvergreenTree	lolvv
16:42	EvergreenTree	lol
16:42	* sfan5	puts a kitten on EvergreenTree's head
16:42	EvergreenTree	Lolparty?
16:42	* sfan5	puts a kitten on john_minetest's head
16:42	reactor	john_minetest: you're repetitive.
16:42	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:42	* sfan5	puts a kitten on reactor's head
16:42	EvergreenTree	/s/head/treetop
16:42	thexyz	lol
16:42	* Hirato	obits everyone with a banana
16:42	EvergreenTree	lol
16:42	reactor	sfan5: keep ponies away from me.
16:42	EvergreenTree	lol
16:42	thexyz	anyway, this is strange
16:42	EvergreenTree	lol
16:42		EvergreenTree was kicked by ShadowBot: Message repetition flood detected.
16:42	* reactor	sneezes again
16:42		EvergreenTree joined #minetest
16:42	sfan5	!rainbow I like kittens. :3
16:42	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:42	reactor	Kittens, too.
16:42	sfan5	MinetestBot!
16:42	sfan5	wat the
16:43	Hirato	!rainbow a magical pudding?
16:43	EvergreenTree	<3 ShadowBot
16:43	PilzAdam	sfan5, too much lulz for MinetestBot
16:43	EvergreenTree	<3 MinetestBot
16:43	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:43	reactor	A medical pudding.
16:43		zsoltisawesome was kicked by ShadowBot: Message repetition flood detected.
16:43		zsoltisawesome joined #minetest
16:43	Hirato	LOLOLOLOLO
16:43	EvergreenTree	zsoltisawesome, you're getting owned
16:43	sfan5	:-/
16:43	zsoltisawesome	indeed
16:43	reactor	zsoltisawesome: on a regular basis.
16:43	EvergreenTree	!rainbow NYANCATS
16:43		iqualfragile_ joined #minetest
16:43	zsoltisawesome	!rainbow rainbow
16:44	* EvergreenTree	sets a nyancat on sfan5's head
16:44	sfan5	freenode broke
16:44	reactor	Fail.
16:44	thexyz	indeed
16:44	sfan5	MinetestBot disconnected but..
16:44	EvergreenTree	indeedy
16:44	* sfan5	throws a kitten at EvergreenTree
16:44	reactor	indeedyish
16:44	* EvergreenTree	deflects
16:44	sfan5	another netsplit ahead I think
16:44	Hirato	it would've left by now I'd think
16:44		realbadangel_ joined #minetest
16:44	* Hirato	sends a ping and waits
16:44		q66 joined #minetest
16:44		blaaaaargh joined #minetest
16:44		xiong_ joined #minetest
16:44	* zsoltisawesome	throws a baseball at Hirato
16:44	* sfan5	slaps zsoltisawesome
16:44	EvergreenTree	blaaaaargh,
16:45	sfan5	ah.. wrong buttom
16:45	reactor	Yay! Vandalism!
16:45	* EvergreenTree	slaps everyone
16:45	* Hirato	turns into a dog and catches it
16:45	* sfan5	puts Rainbow Dash on Hirato's head
16:45	* reactor	tries to break EvergreenTree's branch.
16:45	* zsoltisawesome	slaps sfan5
16:45	blaaaaargh	EvergreenTreeeeeeeee
16:45	* Hirato	has become one with the brony
16:45	* EvergreenTree	apprehends reactor
16:45	sfan5	meh
16:45	* EvergreenTree	sets Derpyhooves on Hirato's head
16:45		Vohveli joined #minetest
16:45	Jordach	should i just give MinetestBot a poke?
16:45	* zsoltisawesome	becomes very Derpy
16:45	Hirato	MinetestBot: you spell like elderberries
16:46	* reactor	comprehends EvergreenTree
16:46	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:46		Someguy123 joined #minetest
16:46	EvergreenTree	zsoltisawesome, you were already derpy
16:46	EvergreenTree	now you've become super derpy
16:46	thexyz	I feel offended by your recent action(s). Please read http://stop-irc-bullying.eu/stop
16:46	reactor	Indeed. Getting pwned on a regular basis
16:46	zsoltisawesome	but now im very derpy
16:46	Hirato	derpy^2
16:46	sfan5	MinetestBot!
16:46	reactor	Wrong link, thexyz. It's "http://start-irc-bullying.eu/start".
16:46	thexyz	lol
16:46	zsoltisawesome	I don't feel offended by your recent action(s). Please read http://start-irc-bullying.eu/start
16:46	thexyz	reactor: why bully
16:47	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:47	reactor	thexyz: ?
16:47	reactor	I'm not bullying anyone.
16:47	thexyz	that's so unnice :(
16:47	Hirato	double plus unnice
16:47	reactor	I unbellyfeel bronisms.
16:47	thexyz	wait
16:48	thexyz	do you mean someone actually watches MLP?
16:48	thexyz	like, not kids
16:48	reactor	john_minetest does.
16:48	zsoltisawesome	yes....
16:48	thexyz	but adults?
16:48	reactor	He's in denial about it, but it's fine.
16:48	thexyz	ah
16:48	thexyz	should check it out
16:48	reactor	thexyz: I've heard stories about adults being stuck in that.
16:48	sfan5	goddamnit
16:48	sfan5	MinetestBot!
16:48	thexyz	or maybe not
16:48	Hirato	bronies represent, if anyone else has BALLS, leave a video response of yours.
16:48	* EvergreenTree	slaps MinetestBot
16:48	PilzAdam	"Feel free to join #start-irc-bullying on irc.rizon.net. – If you don't know how, fuck you."
16:48	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:49	EvergreenTree	plol
16:49	reactor	Heheh.
16:49	reactor	john_minetest: I like logic, that's it.
16:49	thexyz	lol
16:49	zsoltisawesome	john_minetest: +1
16:49	EvergreenTree	It's Vulcan
16:49	thexyz	ponies with big eyes [...] natural
16:49	thexyz	well, okay
16:49	EvergreenTree	^
16:49	reactor	john_minetest: I AM NOT A ROBOT
16:49	thexyz	I can buy it
16:49	EvergreenTree	ohsnap
16:49	Hirato	oh my, live cht
16:49	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:49	PilzAdam	sfan5, op party now?
16:50	sfan5	ah, finally
16:50	Hirato	I know what my opening line is, "hello,? is this abuse?"
16:50	ShadowBot	john_minetest: Error: You're missing some capability you need. This could be because you actually possess the anti-capability for the capability that's required of you, or because the channel provides that anti-capability by default, or because the global capabilities include that anti-capability. Or, it could be because the channel or supybot.capabilities.default is set to False, meaning that no commands are allowed unless ex
16:50	reactor	Well.
16:50	reactor	Eh.
16:50	sfan5	PilzAdam: <sfan5> we can only have op party if chanserv netsplits and MinetestBot stays here
16:50	reactor	Animals might be cute, aight.
16:50	reactor	But why ponies?
16:50	thexyz	john_minetest: what about the plot?
16:50		MinetestBot joined #minetest
16:50	PilzAdam	sfan5, what is MTBot netsplits and ChanServ stays here?
16:50	zsoltisawesome	lol the anti-capibility
16:50	Hirato	Hmmm.. not sure I want to
16:50	reactor	And bronies tend to be overdoing it.
16:50	EvergreenTree	!rainbow NYANCAT
16:50	MinetestBot	N9YA6N7CA6T
16:50	EvergreenTree	w0000
16:50	reactor	Some even sexualise what is not supposed to be sexualised.
16:50	sfan5	finally.. that's been a long netsplit
16:51	sfan5	PilzAdam: nothing
16:51	thexyz	!rainbow Error: You're missing some capability you need. This could be because you actually possess the anti-capability for the capability that's required of you, or because the channel provides that anti-capability by default, or because the global capabilities include that anti-capability. Or, it could be because the channel or supybot.capabilities.default is set to False, meaning that no commands are allowed unless exp
16:51	MinetestBot	7Er5ro6r: 2Y2ou'5r8e6 7m8is6s3ing 8s5o3me8 c6a5pa7bil7ity yo7u 5ne9e5d.2 3T9hi2s 6co7uld8 2be3 7b8eca9u9s3e9 4y4ou8 4ac8tua6l2l3y 2p8o2s2se8ss7 t7h9e8 3a8n3t5i4-c5a3p3a3b6il4i2t2y 5f7o8r th9e2 7capa8b2ilit2y 9tha
16:51	thexyz	why, you didn't even try
16:51	EvergreenTree	I'm ashamed of you MinetestBot
16:51	Hirato	!rainbow Baguette
16:51	MinetestBot	3Bag4uett9e
16:51	sfan5	thexyz: limitation in phenny
16:51	MinetestBot	EvergreenTree: :-(
16:51	zsoltisawesome	!rainbow Rainbow Dash
16:51	MinetestBot	Ra8i4n4bo7w 7Da5s3h
16:51	MinetestBot	d4ash
16:51	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:52	reactor	!rainbow Aperture Science?
16:52	MinetestBot	8Ap6er8t3u6r7e Sc6i3en4ce5?
16:52	thardin	pone
16:52	zsoltisawesome	great minds think alike
16:52	EvergreenTree	!slap someone
16:52	zsoltisawesome	:D
16:52	reactor	!slap EvergreenTree
16:52	Hirato	!rainbow Your mind on drugs
16:52	MinetestBot	6Y5o2u5r8 min2d 8o9n dru3g8s
16:52	* MinetestBot	slaps EvergreenTree
16:52	reactor	No workie :(
16:52	zsoltisawesome	!op YourMom
16:52	EvergreenTree	That backfired
16:52	thexyz	sfan5: btw, rainbow looks a bit different
16:52	reactor	MinetestBot is stoned?
16:53	reactor	john_minetest: whatever rocks your boat, mate.
16:53	zash	You know, in other parts of IRC, even thinking about writing such a command would carry the death penalty
16:53	sfan5	thexyz: yes, ik
16:53	zsoltisawesome	tinyurl.com/derpy-hooves-base64
16:54		Renoki joined #minetest
16:54		dzho joined #minetest
16:54	zsoltisawesome	it takes a very long time to laod
16:54	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:54	reactor	john_minetest: ?
16:54		us_0gb joined #minetest
16:54		us_0gb joined #minetest
16:54	zsoltisawesome	!title
16:54	MinetestBot	zsoltisawesome: Document isn't HTML
16:54	zsoltisawesome	fail
16:54	reactor	john_minetest: I mean, whatever stones your bot.
16:54	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:54	zsoltisawesome	http://tinyurl.com/derpy-hooves-base64
16:54	zsoltisawesome	!title
16:54	MinetestBot	LineTooLong: got more than 65536 bytes when reading header line (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/httplib.py", line 282, in readheaders)
16:54	zsoltisawesome	lol
16:55	zsoltisawesome	i bet thats the fist time that happened
16:55	zsoltisawesome	*first
16:55	reactor	I mean, whatever you're into, mate.
16:55	reactor	I've known it all along.
16:55	thexyz	zsoltisawesome: what's that evil url?
16:55	reactor	zsoltisawesome must be the GLaDOS.
16:55	reactor	I am not.
16:55	zsoltisawesome	its a base64 encoded image
16:56	zsoltisawesome	that like ~2000x~3000 px
16:56	zsoltisawesome	https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/n9ni4RxVRnWEdy1nEnHo
16:57	zsoltisawesome	non base64 version
16:57	thexyz	do people find this cute?
16:57	zsoltisawesome	yes
16:57	thexyz	okay
16:57	reactor	I, personally, find pictures of humans more attractive.
16:57	zsoltisawesome	i have a question for you, thexyz
16:58	reactor	But again, whatever you're into.
16:58		ImQ009_ joined #minetest
16:58	thexyz	zsoltisawesome: yes?
16:58	kaeza	this is cuter: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/Screenshot%20from%202013-11-11%2012%3A37%3A32.jpg
16:58	kaeza	:3
16:58	zsoltisawesome	do russian people find this cute? (no offence)
16:58	thexyz	kaeza: default theme can't be
16:58	thexyz	zsoltisawesome: find what cute?
16:58	thexyz	also >jpg
16:59	kaeza	thexyz, default theme?
16:59	thexyz	> dat clock
16:59	thexyz	is it not?
16:59	reactor	Winblows.
16:59	kaeza	no it isn't
16:59	thexyz	> dat frame around dat clock
16:59	kaeza	it's "Redmond" theme
16:59	thexyz	> icons on desktop
16:59	kaeza	is this better? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/Screenshot%20from%202013-11-16%2023%3A24%3A30.jpg
16:59	zsoltisawesome	dem should make a Whisler theme
17:00	thexyz	kaeza: disable frame around the clock
17:00	zsoltisawesome	lol
17:00	zsoltisawesome	thexyz: https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/n9ni4RxVRnWEdy1nEnHo
17:01	thexyz	zsoltisawesome: well I can't speak for all russians
17:01	thexyz	you can ask me and reactor and proller__ though
17:01	blaaaaargh	dis lag
17:01	thexyz	I think it looks frightening
17:01	zsoltisawesome	lol
17:01	* Jordach	buys john_minetest a wacom drawing pad
17:01	zsoltisawesome	ooooooh
17:02	zsoltisawesome	i want
17:02	proller__	i dislike any japan art
17:02	Jordach	john_minetest, i could do better ;)
17:02	zsoltisawesome	it aint japanese art
17:02	zsoltisawesome	https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/n9ni4RxVRnWEdy1nEnHo
17:02	thexyz	meh stop posting that pick
17:03	reactor	I dislike Japan stuff, too.
17:03	reactor	Nothing personal.
17:03	proller__	except Hayao Miyazaki
17:03	kaeza	Clearlooks
17:03	zsoltisawesome	lol
17:03	thexyz	i too dislike stuff except good stuff
17:03	diemartin	I said that two minutes ago ._.
17:03		EmmetCooper joined #minetest
17:04	thexyz	also is freenode still borked?
17:04	Hirato	lol, someone is self-destructing in sauerbraten's IRC
17:04	zsoltisawesome	lolo
17:05	EmmetCooper	hey guys just wanna ask if someone here is familiar with perlin noise. cuz i dont. kinda need to learn it
17:05	Jordach	Hirato, haven't seen you for a while
17:05	Hirato	hi Jordach
17:05	kaeza	EmmetCooper, ask paramat
17:06	EmmetCooper	paramat?
17:06	Jordach	all i've been doing is learning my blender
17:06	Hirato	didn'y you used to hang out in #redeclipse with me and the rest of the bros?
17:06	Jordach	*ding dong*
17:06	Jordach	uhm, wut
17:06	Hirato	the cake is done?
17:06	Jordach	see said channel
17:06	* Hirato	whistles
17:06		EmmetCooper left #minetest
17:07		EmmetCooper joined #minetest
17:07	Jordach	Hirato, no really, i've learned too much blender :P http://i.imgur.com/dUvEgE7.png
17:07	iqualfragile_	Jordach: are there any other drawing pads then wacom?
17:07	reactor	Daring?
17:07	diemartin	dem fingers
17:07	reactor	Darwing* pads?
17:07	Jordach	iqualfragile_, can't find anyothers in my local area
17:08	reactor	The cake is not a lie. You just have to wait for it a bit longer, alright?
17:08	iqualfragile_	Jordach: like… the internet?
17:08	reactor	And do a couple of tests while waiting.
17:08	Jordach	iqualfragile_, i don't do internet shopping
17:08	reactor	How about Internet snooping?
17:08	iqualfragile_	why?
17:09	Jordach	john_minetest, they're about 30 euros from the nearest place where i can get one
17:09	* Jordach	would like one as well
17:13	zsoltisawesome	anoyone know thw current exchange rate fr eurs to usd
17:13	zsoltisawesome	*for
17:13	Jordach	just google it
17:14	sfan5	MinetestBot!
17:14	sfan5	not again
17:14	zsoltisawesome	1.37300
17:14	MinetestBot	IOError: [Errno socket error] [Errno 110] Connection timed out (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/socket.py", line 571, in create_connection)
17:14	sfan5	wat
17:14		dzho joined #minetest
17:15	MinetestBot	IOError: [Errno socket error] [Errno 110] Connection timed out (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/socket.py", line 571, in create_connection)
17:17	MinetestBot	GIT: kahrl commited to minetest/minetest: Don't call curl_global_init twice e275b7099a 2013-12-13T09:08:53-08:00 http://git.io/1aGazw
17:19	zsoltisawesome	look what someone did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHUT_THE_FUCK_UP
17:20	zsoltisawesome	!title
17:20	zsoltisawesome	oh right
17:20	zsoltisawesome	it dont work right now
17:21	sfan5	oh.. MinetestBot tried to connect to git.io too announce commits
17:22	zsoltisawesome	lol
17:22		us|0gb joined #minetest
17:22		us|0gb joined #minetest
17:22	zsoltisawesome	ghit
17:24	zsoltisawesome	hey guys
17:24		berome joined #minetest
17:24	zsoltisawesome	ummm is it possible to copy minetestgame into another repo without forking?
17:24		berome left #minetest
17:25		EmmetCooper left #minetest
17:25	zsoltisawesome	us|0gb: its nice to see you too
17:25		MinetestBot joined #minetest
17:25	us|0gb	Hey, zsoltisawesome! Nice to see you too.
17:25	sfan5	zsoltisawesome: why would you not want to fork?
17:26	zsoltisawesome	well, i already have some work done
17:26		Gethiox joined #minetest
17:26		ifireball joined #minetest
17:27	zsoltisawesome	i wish there was like a webapp to use git
17:27	zsoltisawesome	then i could add files and shit
17:27	us|0gb	Forking or not, won't copying the minetest_game leave you with a copy that doesn't have your changes?
17:27	OWNSyouAll	zsoltisawesome, http://gitlab.org/
17:28	ifireball	hello is it ok to ask question about the gameplay itself here?
17:28	OWNSyouAll	Yeah ifireball
17:28	zsoltisawesome	damn its blocked
17:28	kaeza	ifireball, don't ask to ask, just ask
17:29	kaeza	zsoltisawesome, git push https://github.com/example/repo.git
17:29	ifireball	ok, I've been playing on Ubuntu, and sme stuff seem not to be like the wiki I was wondering if I have  an old version or something, and where can I find release notes that can teel me what to expect
17:29	kaeza	replace example with your username and repo.git with your repo name
17:29	OWNSyouAll	ifireball, did you just do sudo apt-get install minetest?
17:29	ifireball	I can;t seem to be able to make doors for example
17:29	zsoltisawesome	and what'll that do
17:29	ifireball	OWNSyouAll, yeah
17:30	OWNSyouAll	Yeah your on an older version then
17:30	ShadowNinja	I wouldn't advi
17:30	us|0gb	Yeah, the Ubuntu version is way outdated.
17:30	OWNSyouAll	If you want the newer stuff install minetest from a PPA or compile it from source
17:30	ShadowNinja	se teasing ShadowBot. She will ban.
17:30		ImQ009 joined #minetest
17:30	zsoltisawesome	hmm, how does one tease a female bot?
17:30	ifireball	OWNSyouAll, ohw can I figure out what this version is missing? (Except trying everything...)
17:31	ifireball	OWNSyouAll, If I upgrade, will t read my existing world?
17:31	zsoltisawesome	yes
17:31	OWNSyouAll	It should
17:31	OWNSyouAll	See if you can find the version number in the main menu under the about tab
17:31	us|0gb	OWNSyouAll: https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/stable
17:31	us|0gb	Oops, I mean ifireball: https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/stable
17:32	zsoltisawesome	us|0gb: lol
17:32	zsoltisawesome	http://5.231.56.127/
17:32	ifireball	OWNSyouAll, I've got c55 0.3.1 (says so in the screen corner)
17:32	ifireball	us|0gb, thanks
17:32	zsoltisawesome	holy crap
17:32	zsoltisawesome	outdated is right
17:32	zsoltisawesome	mods wont even run on that
17:33	OWNSyouAll	Yeah thats super old no wonder the wiki isn't help you
17:33	zsoltisawesome	!title
17:33	MinetestBot	zsoltisawesome: No title found
17:33	ifireball	well I guess I;d have to upgrade and just corss my fingers and hope it loads the world...
17:33	OWNSyouAll	Make a backup of the world first
17:34	ifireball	yeah
17:34	zsoltisawesome	:( EvergreenTree is gone...
17:34	Hirato	oh joy, he's stopped flooding, and now we're feeding the troll, haha
17:34	ifireball	tanothere question, I have a mine that keeps filling back up, is that the gave's way of telling me to stop digging down?
17:34	kaeza	ifireball, the world loads OK, but new generated areas don't look the same due to changes in map generation
17:35	ifireball	game*
17:35	zsoltisawesome	well, its a glitch in that version
17:35	ifireball	or is that just a "special feature " of this old version? :)
17:35	kaeza	that is weird
17:35	zsoltisawesome	i alway had blocks disappear and stuff like that
17:35	ifireball	funny, well going to upgrade, thanks everyone
17:36		john_minetest joined #minetest
17:36	zsoltisawesome	then MT 0.4.1 came out, and i'm all "YAY! LESS BLOCK SPAZZING"
17:36	zsoltisawesome	cause it still happens every once in a great while
17:38		FreeFull joined #minetest
17:38	ifireball	is the fact that I always get buried 6 feet under whenever I load the game also a "feature" of this version? (I thought this was funny as hell)
17:38	zsoltisawesome	how does one create a new folder using the web interface?
17:38	OWNSyouAll	ifireball, oh god i forgot about that yeah that is fixed in newer versions
17:38	zsoltisawesome	yeah
17:38	zsoltisawesome	that was soooooo annoying
17:38	ifireball	OWNSyouAll, too bad that was fun :)
17:39	zsoltisawesome	i would keep dieing
17:39	zsoltisawesome	i didnt know about j and k
17:39	zsoltisawesome	XD
17:39	ifireball	I got used to alwas quiting the game while standing on a dirt hill so it will be easy to get out :)
17:40		smoke_fumus joined #minetest
17:41	zsoltisawesome	how does one create a new folder using the web interface of github?
17:43	us|0gb	zsoltisawesome: I'm not sure you can.
17:43	us|0gb	The web interface is ... incomplete.
17:43	zsoltisawesome	thats very lame
17:43	us|0gb	It is indeed.
17:43	zsoltisawesome	i now officaily hate git
17:44		blaaaaargh joined #minetest
17:45		qwebirc67316 joined #minetest
17:45	kaeza	zsoltisawesome, why?
17:45	ShadowNinja	ifireball: What version are you using? IIRC that was fixed very, very long ago. (But some distros *cough*like ubuntu*cough* don't update for years)
17:45	zsoltisawesome	its too limited without the git program
17:45	kaeza	lol
17:46	zsoltisawesome	0.3.1
17:46	kaeza	okay, have fun then
17:46	zsoltisawesome	hes using 0.3.1
17:46	zsoltisawesome	i would use git only i could find a version that ran on windows
17:47	ShadowNinja	ifireball: Well if you're on ubuntu run "sudo apt-add-repository ppa:minetestdevs/stable && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade"
17:47	ifireball	zsoltisawesome, I read somewhere github had such a version (I wouldn't know, don't have Windows....)
17:47	zsoltisawesome	and is RunInPlace...
17:47	zsoltisawesome	well they do
17:47	zsoltisawesome	but you have to install it
17:48	ifireball	ShadowBot, yeah, thanks (I kinda know how to use a PPA already...)
17:48	kaeza	such invonvenience
17:48	kaeza	very wow
17:48	ifireball	ShadowNinja , yeah, thanks (I kinda know how to use a PPA already...)
17:48	kaeza	inc*
17:48	sfan5	realbadangel_: what's wrong with my bumpmaps? http://i.imgur.com/lRX6yB0.png
17:49	zsoltisawesome	kaeza: Please don't be a jerk
17:49	ShadowNinja	ifireball: No offense intended.
17:49	ifireball	ShadowNinja, none taken
17:50	kaeza	zsoltisawesome, alright
17:52	* Jordach	just noobed
17:53	Jordach	loaded the model in the wrong version of blender
17:53	zsoltisawesome	finally
17:53	zsoltisawesome	i found a version of git
17:53	zsoltisawesome	http://code.google.com/p/msysgit/downloads/detail?name=PortableGit-1.8.4-preview20130916.7z&amp;can=2&amp;q=official+git
17:57		qwebirc10680 joined #minetest
17:57		dhbiker joined #minetest
18:03	ifireball	ShadowNinja, btw, apt-get upgrade wouldn't have worked because the package name in the PPA is different then th one in the distro repo
18:03	kaeza	http://cheezburger.com/7952139264
18:04	ShadowNinja	ifireball: Hmmm, did they name it minetest-c55?
18:04	zash	It's called just 'minetest' in Ubuntu
18:05	zash	and Debian, http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=minetest
18:06		Issa2013 joined #minetest
18:07	ShadowNinja	Hmmm, it's named minetestc55 there. PilzAdam: Fix that. :-)
18:07		Pest joined #minetest
18:07	ifireball	hmm... where does 0.4.8 look for the texture packs? does setting in minetest.conf still work?
18:09	PilzAdam	ShadowNinja, eh,  I better dont mess up the launchpad scripts
18:10		sistinas joined #minetest
18:11	MinetestBot	GIT: ShadowNinja commited to minetest/minetest: Remove support for optdepends.txt 83853ccd41 2013-12-13T10:10:24-08:00 http://git.io/fcXnhw
18:18	ifireball	bleh... seems like it didn't load the world... gonna have to redo everything...
18:20	zsoltisawesome	may have spawned you in diffferent place
18:20	ifireball	I don't have any of my items...
18:24	zsoltisawesome	oh
18:25	zsoltisawesome	you logged in as singleplayer
18:25	ifireball	oh, how do i change that?
18:25	zsoltisawesome	well, it should be in your saves folder
18:26	zsoltisawesome	or what ever
18:26	Jordach	Advanced > <player name> <password> <your world here>
18:26	Jordach	ifireball, use the advanced tab
18:26	zsoltisawesome	that works too
18:26	Jordach	with the same name you used for the local world
18:27	ifireball	ok... waiting for it to load back (it crashed :( )
18:27	ifireball	I;m not seed and advanced tab
18:28	ifireball	not seeing
18:28		Megaf joined #minetest
18:29		qwebirc84087 joined #minetest
18:29	ifireball	ok it was the server tab that did the trick, lol it buried my house :)
18:29	qwebirc84087	Hi all
18:29	Jordach	ifireball, there is a newer mapgen
18:30	qwebirc84087	cool nick I got uh?
18:30	Jordach	the server WILL create new chunks with the new mapgen
18:30	Jordach	including restoring the already dug caves
18:30		qwebirc84087 joined #minetest
18:30		qwebirc84087 joined #minetest
18:31		Megaf_ joined #minetest
18:31	Megaf	what?
18:32	Megaf	My computer have his own will
18:33		tirsod2000 joined #minetest
18:37		Calinou joined #minetest
18:37	ifireball	this version crashes a lot :(
18:37	Issa2013	Calinou,
18:41	thexyz	what's the most bloated server? with mods and textures that take ages to load
18:41	Jordach	vanessa's survival world
18:41	Jordach	it crashed freeminer droid
18:41	zsoltisawesome	lol
18:42	thexyz	VanessaE: where can I download your vanessae_game?
18:42	specing	What do the following parameters mean:
18:42	specing	clust_scarcity = 15*15*15,
18:42	specing	clust_num_ores = 4,
18:42	specing	clust_size     = 3
18:42	Jordach	specing, careful
18:43	Jordach	i can *HEAR* ShadowBot ticking
18:43	zsoltisawesome	LOL
18:43	zsoltisawesome	you amuse me
18:44	Jordach	if you make lots of lines at once, ShadowBot will kick you, repeat offenders will get banned from the channel
18:46		Megaf left #minetest
18:46		rubenwardy joined #minetest
18:46	Jordach	<VE-Survival> *** pomfpomfpomf18 joined the game <- thexyz, this being you?
18:47	rubenwardy	Hi all
18:47	rubenwardy	ha
18:47	rubenwardy	C++ time!
18:47	kaeza	lol C++
18:47	thexyz	wow, that's some bloat indeed
18:47	thexyz	Jordach: yes
18:47		Tux[Qyou] joined #minetest
18:47	thexyz	oh, but it uses remote_media
18:48	Calinou	I thought she refused to use remote_media
18:48	rubenwardy	kaeza: lol meaning C++ is bad, or C++ is complicated?
18:48	thexyz	the cdn only has about 1/3 of her files
18:49	kaeza	rubenwardy, I prefer either C or Java
18:49	rubenwardy	But C is apparently not OOP
18:49	kaeza	OOP is doable in C
18:50	kaeza	even inheritance and stuff like that
18:50	kaeza	see Gtk+
18:50	thexyz	what a lagfest
18:51	Jordach	also http://i.imgur.com/6J1vefx.png
18:52	Jordach	sort of solved the thumb mystery
18:52	thexyz	oh wow who has done that with this poor guy
18:59	Jordach	thexyz, readied for creating animations for the interwebz
18:59	rubenwardy	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-8Z4k7E8Pg&amp;list=UUggccVQxXZFny58cconVANA ????
19:00	PilzAdam	Jordach, pixel error at the head
19:00	Jordach	PilzAdam, blender's internal does that along cube edges for some reason
19:02	Jordach	i also make pavel's model look like last century ;)
19:04		xiong_ joined #minetest
19:11	rubenwardy	Bloody amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3bGYljQ5Uw
19:11	Jordach	rubenwardy, test me: http://www.mediafire.com/download/w3p7bk0ljtmrrs9/TemplateMale.blend
19:11	Jordach	you will need the latest stable however..
19:12	rubenwardy	Sorry, I dont have blender atm
19:12	rubenwardy	Bookmarked, though
19:18		djdduty joined #minetest
19:22	Jordach	the more people who experiment, the better
19:23		twoelk joined #minetest
19:25		PandemoniuM joined #minetest
19:34		LazyJ joined #minetest
19:36	Jordach	btw, dual male and female experiment incoming :O
19:40		mrtux joined #minetest
19:46	Jordach	WOW.
19:46	Jordach	two models really bump up the render time...
19:47	Jordach	and my experimental reflections work :D
19:48	thexyz	look at sfan5 saving minetest http://i.imgur.com/W3Vo3K4.png
19:49	thexyz	from the collapse
19:49	thexyz	because of bugs
19:49	Jordach	lol
19:52	Jordach	btw, i might make entire renders based off of IRC antics
19:52		Miner_48er joined #minetest
19:54	rubenwardy	Seriously?
19:54	rubenwardy	You have nothing better to do?
19:55	thexyz	IRC antics?
19:55	PilzAdam	Jordach, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=121930#p121930 you say that you need people to find bugs, but then you say if they find bugs they are using the wrong blender version....
19:55	Jordach	rubenwardy, i want to keep testing my models upto their breaking point
19:55	Jordach	PilzAdam, i built it within 2.69
19:56	Jordach	with 2.69 specific features
19:57	rubenwardy	ah ok
19:58		rsiska joined #minetest
20:01		Calinou joined #minetest
20:05	thexyz	I remember there being a topic where people drew some GUI for android minetest, can someone point me at it?
20:07	zsoltisawesome	hey, what is everyones FPS while running Minetest?
20:07	Jordach	30-40 with full shaders
20:07	Hirato	30-40 irrespective of shaders ^^
20:08	zsoltisawesome	i run at about 20-30 with shaders
20:08	Miner_48er	zsoltisawesome any mods?
20:08	zsoltisawesome	nope
20:08	rubenwardy	http://ubuntuone.com/7BuxzGhX4wDjvcitMV62Kz
20:08	rubenwardy	(screenshot of new nodebox editor
20:08	thexyz	or was I wrong?
20:08	rubenwardy	)
20:08	zsoltisawesome	exept core modifations on like the apple and stuff
20:08	thexyz	someone should make formspec editor
20:09	rubenwardy	kaeza ^
20:09	rubenwardy	He made one
20:09	rubenwardy	(python, tkinter)
20:09	rubenwardy	See github
20:09	rubenwardy	gtg
20:09	kaeza	yes, but it's far from finished
20:09	zsoltisawesome	guys, i tried to go to the website
20:09	Jordach	i am dissapoint
20:10	zsoltisawesome	and it wont let me
20:10	Jordach	rubenwardy is using windows
20:10	Jordach	zsoltisawesome, your filter remember
20:10	kaeza	https://github.com/kaeza/minetest-fsd
20:10	kaeza	thexyz, ^
20:10	zsoltisawesome	no
20:10	zsoltisawesome	it says:
20:10	zsoltisawesome	SSL Not Enabled
20:10	zsoltisawesome	This site is not enabled for SSL. Please follow this link to visit the site without SSL.
20:10	kaeza	https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/Screenshot%20from%202013-11-12%2014%3A21%3A25.png
20:11	* Jordach	thinks MITM might be around
20:11	kaeza	also this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/Screenshot%20from%202013-11-12%2016%3A08%3A39.png
20:12	zsoltisawesome	nice
20:12	thexyz	how up-to-date is it?
20:15	kaeza	not very
20:15	zsoltisawesome	(< . . . . .
20:15	zsoltisawesome	^ supposed to be pacman
20:15	kaeza	( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
20:16	zsoltisawesome	:O
20:16	zsoltisawesome	i envy you
20:17	Jordach	done
20:17	Jordach	https://gist.github.com/Jordach/97fb16478562c60c10b3
20:18	Megaf_	Hi all
20:18	Jordach	ASCII art is another one of the things i can do
20:18	Megaf_	Hi Jordach kaeza
20:18	kaeza	hey
20:18	zsoltisawesome	nice
20:19	Megaf_	what do you think is better? megaf.co.vu or minetest.megaf.info?
20:19	zsoltisawesome	latter one
20:19		Pilcrow joined #minetest
20:20	Pilcrow	VanessaE
20:22	Pilcrow	I made a pull request for homedecor on github. fixes a very minor issue. this is my first github usage, so let me know if I've done something wrong~  :P
20:31	zsoltisawesome	what the derp
20:32	kaeza	Pilcrow, merged
20:35	thexyz	sfan5: http://i.imgur.com/ZXbTfmH.png showing off
20:39	thexyz	it doesn't crash anymore I just forgot to remove this part
20:41	kaeza	d'awwww https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=121940#p121940
20:46		anunakki joined #minetest
20:51	* Jordach	has that fluffy feeling again
20:52	Pilcrow	thanks kaeza. it wasn't much of a change, but certain mods (including one I was working on) didn't like having a nil itemstack in on_rightclick.  ;)
20:52		Pest joined #minetest
20:53	kaeza	Pilcrow, no, thank you for spotting that bug :P
20:53		roboman2444 joined #minetest
20:54	zsoltisawesome	YAY he squashed a bug!
20:56		Tux[Qyou] joined #minetest
21:02	zsoltisawesome	Jordach: I like your TV mod, I think i will include it in Moontest
21:02	Jordach	zsoltisawesome, for fuck sakes, VanessaE beat me to that
21:02	Jordach	mine is abm based. hers is node animation
21:03	zsoltisawesome	hmm
21:03	zsoltisawesome	i'll try it
21:04	kaeza	speaking of that, homedecor needs to be split into submods
21:04	zsoltisawesome	is it in homedecor?
21:04	thexyz	> being mean
21:04	zsoltisawesome	screw it then
21:04	thexyz	> calling that sarcasm
21:05	thardin	nobody likes sarcasm
21:06	zsoltisawesome	./ignore thardin
21:06		Tuxedo[Qyou] joined #minetest
21:06	* zsoltisawesome	has hated on thardin
21:08	zsoltisawesome	where is said tv defined?
21:08	zsoltisawesome	lol
21:09	Jordach	10 print "FUCK" 20 goto 10
21:09	Jordach	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=121944#p121944
21:10	thexyz	talk about shitty community
21:10	Jordach	thexyz, nobody likes his "spamming"
21:10	Jordach	it's literally things that are like missing a = from an if statement
21:11	Jordach	such idiot, much lols
21:11	Jordach	>Gmail, *checks mail*, rubenwardy has subscribed to you on YouTube
21:11	PilzAdam	hows Moontest doing?
21:16	thexyz	`10 print "FUCK" 20 goto 10` is spamming
21:16	zsoltisawesome	its slowly coming along
21:16	Jordach	thexyz, he has not made anything really constructive :P
21:17	zsoltisawesome	I finally got some git tration
21:17	zsoltisawesome	*traction
21:17	Jordach	wot
21:17	Jordach	woot
21:17	Jordach	made automatic hat cubicness (just cutout the uv where it's black and there you go!)
21:18	zsoltisawesome	http://www.github.com/lordcirth/moontest
21:19	Jordach	nononononononononono
21:19	Jordach	bad
21:19	Jordach	no roblox
21:19	zsoltisawesome	lol
21:19	PilzAdam	zsoltisawesome, do you have fun breaking the law?
21:19	zsoltisawesome	thats my gravatar from way back
21:19		proller joined #minetest
21:20	Jordach	if i wanted lego i'd go buy a box of lego :P
21:20	zsoltisawesome	how am i breaking the law?
21:20	PilzAdam	you cant distribute LGPL code as GPL
21:20	zsoltisawesome	oops
21:20	PilzAdam	same goes for CC BY-SA media
21:20	zsoltisawesome	what version?
21:21	zsoltisawesome	btw im not the one that did that
21:21	PilzAdam	sure, its always that other guy
21:23	zsoltisawesome	what, neither of us read the readme...
21:23	zsoltisawesome	XD
21:23	zsoltisawesome	that jsut sounds lam
21:23	zsoltisawesome	e
21:24	zsoltisawesome	fixing...
21:25		markveidemanis joined #minetest
21:25		markveidemanis joined #minetest
21:25	markveidemanis	Hi
21:25	zsoltisawesome	hi
21:26	Pilcrow	kaeza, there is another bug but I can't seem to find its code. default:fence_wood is apparently re-defined somewhere in homedecor, but the added on_place code doesn't check to see if a right-clicked node has on_rightclick. meaning you can't open doors while holding a fence.
21:27	kaeza	hmm
21:27	kaeza	Pilcrow, everything sign-related is in signslib.lua
21:27	kaeza	err signs_lib.lua
21:29	kaeza	Pilcrow, here https://github.com/VanessaE/homedecor/blob/master/signs_lib.lua#L384
21:29	markveidemanis	I bought one of them quadcopters on ebay
21:30	markveidemanis	waiting for it to charge not
21:30	markveidemanis	*now
21:30	markveidemanis	Is it right to fully charge it before first use?
21:30	markveidemanis	Its a LiPo i think
21:30	Pilcrow	actually, never mind that. I just realized the homedecor I have been using is quite outdated. I'll try updating and see if the bug is still present...
21:30	PilzAdam	I bought an offtopic script, it gets you kicked in many IRC channels!
21:30	zsoltisawesome	PilzAdam: umm do i need to include this line: Copyright (C) 2010-2012 celeron55, Perttu Ahola <celeron55gmail.com>
21:31	PilzAdam	zsoltisawesome, of course you have to
21:31	markveidemanis	http://marktest.co.uk/2013/12/manipulative-tag-cipher/ Another invention
21:31	thexyz	PilzAdam: wat wat wat
21:31	markveidemanis	Second one is much more relevant...
21:31	thexyz	what's this nonsense
21:31	thexyz	it's fine to distribute LGPL'd thing as GPL
21:32	zsoltisawesome	erm
21:32	zsoltisawesome	GET IT RIGHT! you guys are stressing me out
21:32	thexyz	well, I'm not too sure what was the problem
21:33	zsoltisawesome	well: https://github.com/lordcirth/moontest
21:33	thexyz	(the original code is of course LGPL, the modified version is GPL, everything's fine)
21:33	zsoltisawesome	but what about the CC BY-SA 3.0 shit
21:34	thexyz	what about it?
21:34	zsoltisawesome	I'm going to retexture everything anyway...
21:34	zsoltisawesome	do i have to include?
21:34	thexyz	include what?
21:34	thexyz	oh well just copy all licenses and paste your things on the top
21:35	zsoltisawesome	can i say this? "Some content is under the Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0) licence
21:35	zsoltisawesome	http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"
21:36	PilzAdam	you have to define what "Some content" means
21:37	zsoltisawesome	:|
21:37	zsoltisawesome	that was a vague IRC paste
21:37	PilzAdam	you could as well just delete all the default images sounds and models and do your own stuff
21:37	zsoltisawesome	THATS WHAT IM GOONA DO!
21:37	zsoltisawesome	OMFG
21:38	PilzAdam	as long as the repo contains CC BY-SA media you have to share these files as CC BY-SA
21:38	PilzAdam	(I would recommend to write games completly from scratch and not base on mintest_game, btw)
21:38	zsoltisawesome	how the hell would i know the directory structure?
21:38	zsoltisawesome	...
21:39	Pilcrow	lol, never mind kaeza. that bug seems to have been fixed for quite a while. silly me, forgetting to update...  :P
21:39	zsoltisawesome	lo
21:39	PilzAdam	john_minetest, not really
21:39	zsoltisawesome	i have made some very basic nodes
21:40	kaeza	PilzAdam, no probs
21:40	zsoltisawesome	that i havent included yet
21:40	kaeza	err Pilcrow
21:41	zsoltisawesome	can images and stuff be under GPL?
21:41	PilzAdam	<zsoltisawesome> how the hell would i know the directory structure? <- what exactly do you mean by that?
21:41	thexyz	zsoltisawesome: you love open source and licenses and stuff now?
21:41	zsoltisawesome	its like mods/shit/textures
21:42	zsoltisawesome	<sarcasm level=9001> Yes, yes I do. </sarcasm>
21:43	zsoltisawesome	especially crap thats under multiple licences
21:43	Pilcrow	kaeza: what?
21:43	* Pilcrow	tries his best to look innocent...
21:44	* zsoltisawesome	becomes very infuriated
21:44	kaeza	Pilcrow, no probs (failed tab completion pinged Pilz Adam)
21:44	PilzAdam	... and you pinged me again
21:44	zsoltisawesome	lol
21:45	zsoltisawesome	lol
21:45	GingerJesus	How's that?  :P
21:45	kaeza	PilzAdam, so Pilz pings you?
21:45	kaeza	:P
21:45	PilzAdam	but I also get pinged when someone rants about PulseAudio, so nevermind
21:45	kaeza	lol k
21:46	PilzAdam	try, set a highlight for "PA" and youll get pinged every day
21:46	* GingerJesus	actually DOES look like a ginger Jesus...  :P
21:46	PilzAdam	+it
21:47	PilzAdam	john_minetest, which one?
21:48	zsoltisawesome	lol, i believe hewas being sarcastic
21:48	PilzAdam	move it to offtopic then
21:48	GingerJesus	lol, I just realized you can open a query with yourself on IRC...
21:48	kaeza	"it is annoying but it's smart."
21:48	PilzAdam	but I dont see why we should delete topics that dont match what we think about the community
21:49	PilzAdam	> it
21:49	kaeza	you are a thing now!
21:49	PilzAdam	yay
21:49	thexyz	i think this deserves a quote >Can somebody delete the "mt sucks" thread? >which one?
21:50	zsoltisawesome	lol
21:50	GingerJesus	lol @thexyz
21:51	PilzAdam	lold @@
21:51	PilzAdam	(i.e. lold at the @ sign)
21:51	Pilcrow	lol
21:51	PilzAdam	this isnt twitter
21:51	zsoltisawesome	Pilcrow: twitter mush
21:51	zsoltisawesome	*much
21:51	Pilcrow	I don't even use twitter, isn't that sad...?  :P
21:51	zsoltisawesome	lol
21:52	zsoltisawesome	#what
21:52	zsoltisawesome	lol
21:52	PilzAdam	twitter is a game, the more hashtags you get in your post the better
21:52	PilzAdam	john_minetest, ++
21:52	Pilcrow	no one uses google+
21:53	zsoltisawesome	i do
21:53	zsoltisawesome	XD
21:53	zsoltisawesome	i guess im no one
21:53	zsoltisawesome	:#
21:53	zsoltisawesome	*:3
21:53	Pilcrow	lol
21:54	zsoltisawesome	#lol#lol
21:54	Pilcrow	does anybody still call the # symbol a 'pound sign'?
21:54	PilzAdam	retweet: <john_minetest> @PilzAdam, #no, #this #hashtag #thing #is #pure #fantasy . #nobody #on #twitter #uses #them .
21:54	zsoltisawesome	yes
21:54	zsoltisawesome	I WILL # YOU
21:54	Pilcrow	lol
21:54	Pilcrow	always hated the term 'hashtag'
21:54	Taoki	VanessaE: Does your server use the new media fetching code? A GIT commit seems to state that media fetching is improved. Wanted to see if I notice any difference
21:55	Taoki	It talks about the client, but I assume server is affected too
21:55	PilzAdam	in germany its called doppelkreuz (double cross)
21:55	Taoki	To support the changes
21:55	zsoltisawesome	could be read as: I WILL HASHTAG YOU or I WILL POUND YOU
21:56	Jordach	£ is the pound sign you farkin returds
21:56	zsoltisawesome	latter is proper, first is funnier
21:56	Taoki	VanessaE: Also, something is slowing your server down badly. The world isn't even loading any more after I log in, just the chunk in that area. It takes over a minute for the next chunk to load
21:56	PilzAdam	Taoki, isnt that normal on VanessaE's server(s)?
21:56	zsoltisawesome	Taoki: PM much?
21:57	zsoltisawesome	john_minetest: PM much?
21:57	Taoki	PilzAdam: She does have a lot of mods. Still, they shouldn't be that slow. If they are something is wrong with one
21:57	zsoltisawesome	just saying...
21:57	Taoki	zsoltisawesome: Why you ask?
21:57	* Jordach	thinks Lua got stuck in a loop
21:58	* zsoltisawesome	thinks that Jordach should be put in a loop
21:58	Jordach	zsoltisawesome, try moving your conscience into 2gb of ram
21:58	kaeza	hashtags? but they are channels!
21:59	kaeza	/join #yolo
21:59	* john_minetest	thinks that zsoltisawesome should paint a moebius band red on the one side and green on the other one.
21:59	Jordach	john_minetest, i fucking hate those
21:59	Pilcrow	Jordach, I always thought # is the symbol for 'pound' as a unit of weight. not money. that's obviously £...
21:59	* zsoltisawesome	is not an American
21:59	kaeza	>fucking
21:59	Jordach	moebius bands are bullshit
21:59	* zsoltisawesome	knows about the Moebius band
22:00	zsoltisawesome	they work
22:00	PilzAdam	Pilcrow, weight is measured in kg
22:00	* Jordach	drops the bass on sfan5
22:00	PilzAdam	why would you even think about using a unit that isnt a base 10 variant of SI?
22:01	Jordach	Sieverts
22:01	zsoltisawesome	SIlly
22:01	Jordach	there's the future ;)
22:01	* Jordach	prefers SI Units
22:01	Jordach	i hate the pounds and ounces systems
22:01	* zsoltisawesome	prefers orange juice
22:01	Jordach	but i oddly understand Miles Per Hour
22:02	PilzAdam	its not a matter of preference, its a matter of sanity
22:02	Pilcrow	PilzAdam: kg is more sensible, yes, but not so common over here...  ;)
22:02	Taoki	Also: Does anyone know why if I compile Minetest with Irrlicht 1.8, the 3D viewport shrinks to the bottom-left area of the screen? I need to resize the window to get rid of that and have it fill the window again.
22:02	zsoltisawesome	john_minetest: #why
22:02	Taoki	Only with 1.8, doesn't happen with Irrlicht 1.7
22:02	Taoki	And this existed for many months, over an year I believe
22:03	zsoltisawesome	sadly i dont have one of those XD
22:03	zsoltisawesome	us|0gb: why are you sitting there like a plump peach?
22:04	us|0gb	Hmm? I'm doing homework, It's easier if I'm sitting.
22:05	Pilcrow	john_minetest: not really. elevator weight limits are never posted in kg here, nor are trailer limits if you're a trucker like my dad...
22:05	us|0gb	I also have an external hard drive connected, it might fall out if I stand.
22:05	kaeza	john_minetest, player_setfov
22:05	PilzAdam	Pilcrow, define "here"
22:05	PilzAdam	us|0gb, what homework?
22:05	Pilcrow	Wisconsin, USA.
22:06	us|0gb	PilzAdam: Several things, but the one I'm working on now is a resume cover letter.
22:06	kaeza	john_minetest, https://github.com/kaeza/mt-firearms/blob/master/firearmslib/util/player_setfov.patch
22:06	zsoltisawesome	PilzAdam: us|0gb: probably math
22:06	zsoltisawesome	lol
22:07	us|0gb	zsoltisawesome: I'd be done if this was math. I do have a calculator.
22:07	zsoltisawesome	Taoki: NOBODY CARES
22:07	zsoltisawesome	us|0gb: LOL
22:07	Taoki	zsoltisawesome: huh?
22:07	Taoki	About what?
22:07	zsoltisawesome	Taoki
22:07	zsoltisawesome	Also: Does anyone know why if I compile Minetest with Irrlicht 1.8, the 3D viewport shrinks to the bottom-left area of the screen? I need to resize the window to get rid of that and have it fill the window again.
22:08	kahrl	what kind of calculator does math homework?
22:08	Taoki	zsoltisawesome: It's a bug. People should care. Though it's not urgent otherwise
22:08	kaeza	john_minetest, git am player_setfov.patch
22:08	zsoltisawesome	a trig calculator?
22:08	PilzAdam	john_minetest, git apply mypatch.patch
22:08	* Jordach	notices the german to the rest of the world ratio in the minetest community is too damn high
22:09	PilzAdam	Jordach, it tends against 1
22:09	* Jordach	is considering something
22:09	kahrl	the math homework we do around here is of the kind "prove that the function blah is in C^\infty but not in the sobolev space H^1"
22:09	kaeza	john_minetest, I've asked around in #-dev, but nobody responded
22:09	kahrl	I'd love a calculator that can do that :D
22:09	* zsoltisawesome	thinks that Minetest is a pain in the butt to use with no textures
22:10	kaeza	well, sapier said he had no comments on that one
22:10		splash_ joined #minetest
22:10	kahrl	err s/C^\infty/C^0
22:10	zsoltisawesome	whats C? XD
22:10	thexyz	meanwhile buildcraft has got over 50k installs
22:11	PilzAdam	zsoltisawesome, complex numbers I guess
22:11	zsoltisawesome	the water molicules in the sea?
22:11	kahrl	zsoltisawesome: the space of continuous function
22:11	Jordach	anyways, i'm going to create a massive texture atlas so that making textured blocks in blender is piss easy
22:11	kahrl	functions*
22:11	thexyz	waiting for 1e6+
22:11	zsoltisawesome	wahts buildcraft
22:11	thexyz	shit shit shit
22:12	zsoltisawesome	does anyone have a GPL'd texture pack
22:12	* sfan5	puts a kitten on Jordach's head
22:12	Jordach	meow
22:12	Jordach	sfan5, seen the PM yet?
22:12	* zsoltisawesome	shoots the kitten with a shotgun
22:12	zsoltisawesome	*flutteryay*
22:12	Jordach	-!- System: Ark Shielding at 26%
22:13	zsoltisawesome	LOL
22:13	* sfan5	puts Derpy Hooves on Jordach's head
22:13	Jordach	Jordach:dentonate_reactor()
22:13	* zsoltisawesome	takes Derpy Hooves and puts it on his head
22:13	PilzAdam	zsoltisawesome, *brohoof*
22:14	* Pilcrow	shoots Derpy Hooves with a shotgun
22:14	us|0gb	kahrl: It depends on what type of math homework.
22:14	* zsoltisawesome	defends
22:14	Pilcrow	lol
22:14	* Pilcrow	hates mlp
22:14	* zsoltisawesome	throws a Parasprite at Pilcrow
22:15	* zsoltisawesome	hates Haters
22:15	Taoki	Ponies FTW
22:15	zsoltisawesome	wiat wait wait
22:15		cisoun joined #minetest
22:15	zsoltisawesome	+1
22:16	zsoltisawesome	if i hate haters, arent I a hater?
22:16	zsoltisawesome	which would mean that i hate myself, which i dont
22:16	Jordach	by that logic politicians are haters ;)
22:16	* Pilcrow	wonders why we are role-playing instead of carrying a normal conversation...
22:16	* Taoki	reaaaaally needs to make a MLP game for Minetest. And will :) Someday...
22:16	zsoltisawesome	ooooooh
22:16	zsoltisawesome	I'll help
22:16	zsoltisawesome	XD
22:17	* zsoltisawesome	thinks Jordach is 100% correct
22:17	zsoltisawesome	XD
22:18	* zsoltisawesome	assult cake anyone?
22:18	Pilcrow	zsoltisawesome: Schrödinger's hatred. you both hate and do not hate yourself.
22:18	zsoltisawesome	LOL
22:18	zsoltisawesome	lol
22:19	* zsoltisawesome	thinks he should throw an assault cake at Pilcrow
22:19	Pilcrow	also, the following statement is the truth: the previous statement is a lie.
22:20	zsoltisawesome	LOL
22:20	zsoltisawesome	get it right
22:20	zsoltisawesome	XD
22:20	PilzAdam	Pilcrow, be careful or youll break MinetestBot
22:20	* kaeza	hands PilzAdam an apostrophe
22:21	zsoltisawesome	!rainbow SPAWWWWWRRRRCLES!!!!!
22:21	MinetestBot	S2PA9WWW9WWR9RRR6C2L7E9S!!3!4!9!
22:21	* PilzAdam	eats it
22:21	* zsoltisawesome	eats it first
22:21	Pilcrow	PilzAdam: daww, you mean MinetestBot can't handle a paradox yet?  :P
22:22	zsoltisawesome	can someone make a texture that says nil?
22:22	zsoltisawesome	nm
22:23	MinetestBot	-
22:23	Pilcrow	zsoltisawesome: use paint?  :P
22:23	zsoltisawesome	umm
22:23	zsoltisawesome	paint is stupic and cant type that small and uses antialiasing
22:23	xiong	Does anyone here want to talk about the running of a Minetest world? I don't mean the technical details but the social decisions.
22:24	PilzAdam	xiong, I guess if you start somebody will join the discussion
22:24	thexyz	kids.
22:25	xiong	PilzAdam, I'm not trying to start a fight. The last time I talked about that topic with you, you became extremely upset.
22:26	PilzAdam	oh, you are the one who wants players to pay for servers?
22:26	thexyz	what do you mean by "social decisions"?
22:26	xiong	Nor is it clear to me that this is on-topic for this channel, which is rather devoted to technical matters.
22:26	PilzAdam	sorry, didnt remember you
22:26	zsoltisawesome	hmm, what mods should i remove from moontest....
22:27	zsoltisawesome	oooooh i know
22:27	xiong	thexyz, that's the first question. What *do* we mean by social decisions? What social decisions should we consider?
22:27	zsoltisawesome	farming!
22:27	thexyz	xiong: well, you wanted to talk about it
22:27	thexyz	so I thought you already know what you're going to talk about
22:27	xiong	Indeed. I spend a lot of time thinking about it. I'd like to know what others think. Talking to myself is boring and does not illuminate.
22:28	thexyz	to me it feels that the community is too young
22:28	xiong	I deny the existence of a single community.
22:28	thexyz	forums and most public servers
22:28	thexyz	people there are, what, 12?
22:28	thexyz	just judging by those google play comments
22:29		Miner_48er joined #minetest
22:29	zsoltisawesome	damn, what is the character.x under?
22:29	thexyz	it seems that minecraft-like games attract audience like this
22:29	PilzAdam	zsoltisawesome, cc by-sa
22:29	xiong	As I say, it's not clear to me that this topic is on-topic for this channel; it's the opposite of a technical discussion. It *is* on topic for #athens. I'm happy to talk here, of course, but if anyone raises an objection, we'll talk elsewhere.
22:29	thexyz	this is not a technical channel, all minetest-related discussions are welcome here
22:29	zsoltisawesome	PilzAdam: Damn you
22:30	xiong	I'm in my 50's, thexyz. How old are you -- in rough terms?
22:30	Pilcrow	zsoltisawesome: so do you still need a 'nil' texture?
22:30	zsoltisawesome	no
22:30	zsoltisawesome	it is to much of a hastle
22:30	thexyz	xiong: ~2/5
22:31	xiong	You're mocking me. Why?
22:31	thexyz	xiong: I do? I didn't want to offend, sorry
22:31	xiong	On teh internets, nobody knows you're a dog. You raised the issue of age.
22:31	xiong	If you are five years old then I am a striped tiger.
22:32	Pilcrow	zsoltisawesome: daww, ok then. I was going to throw one together for ya~
22:32	PilzAdam	I guess he meant 2/5 * your age
22:32	thexyz	xiong: ~2/5 of your age; anyway what I was talking about is not the physical age and you know it
22:32	thexyz	(or not)
22:32	zsoltisawesome	you could help me with some real textures though
22:32	xiong	Well no, sorry, I don't. We'll say you're in your 20s. When I was in my 20s, I thought hard about social issues.
22:32	zsoltisawesome	lol
22:33	xiong	If my opinions at that age were aired now, I'd have to apologize for them. But that's a side issue.
22:33	thexyz	alright then
22:33		PandemoniuM joined #minetest
22:34	thexyz	I guess we're slowly becoming personal or what?
22:34	xiong	No, not at all. You mentioned age, I followed.
22:34	xiong	My key postulate is that when we play in a simulated world we are nonetheless real human beings. We form a society in that world. I think we don't talk much about what that means.
22:35	xiong	We make assumptions without discussing them and then argue about propositions built on those undiscussed assumptions.
22:35	thexyz	and my point is that it's impossible to build a healthy community with lots of immature people
22:35	xiong	Well, that may be true.
22:36	xiong	I'm not ready to dismiss you, though, as an immature person incapable of building a community.
22:36	PandemoniuM	Ok, so on this topic. Pirates vs Skeletons in an intergalactic space battle. who would win? go.
22:37	Pilcrow	lol PandemoniuM
22:37	xiong	Let's say that the norm for human society over the past million years or so has been a nomadic, uncivilized existence. Then all civilization is exceptional and the product of the few, not of the many.
22:37	PandemoniuM	:]
22:37	xiong	Good point, John.
22:38	PilzAdam	you cant "build" a community, you can just let it grow
22:38	xiong	Who decides what goal, or who may contribute, or what constitutes a contribution and not an annoyance?
22:38	thexyz	after reading the comments http://i.imgur.com/dmmqqor.png I don't feel like coding for those people
22:38	PandemoniuM	the top portion of the community, xiong
22:38	PandemoniuM	founders, key contributers, etc
22:39	xiong	Very well -- the elite.
22:39	PandemoniuM	people of importance that have gained their status in the community by contributions, coding or even culture
22:39	PandemoniuM	no, the elite is not what im saying
22:39	PandemoniuM	because you cant just become elite
22:39	xiong	Nobody codes in a Minetest world. You play blocks.
22:39	zsoltisawesome	you play them? like guitars?
22:39	zsoltisawesome	lol
22:39	PandemoniuM	guess we are talking about to diff things, because im a developer.
22:39	thexyz	coding minetest is the next level of playing the game
22:40	xiong	Right. This discussion has nothing to do with developing.
22:40	PandemoniuM	ffs *two
22:40	xiong	Sorry, not to me, John.
22:40	PandemoniuM	yep, i just got off work and walked into this mess
22:40	xiong	I consider a given Minetest world, at this level of discussion, to be independent, a bubble, if you will.
22:40	PandemoniuM	shun me from the community for my insolence :]
22:41	xiong	Whoever controls access to the server has absolute power to create and destroy the world.
22:41	xiong	No no, not at all, PandemoniuM.
22:41	xiong	Absolutely. Vote with your feet.
22:41	xiong	Nevertheless, it's more or less impossible for anyone to exert power over a servop.
22:41	* john_minetest	imagines how it would look like when people would vote with their feet in parlament.
22:42	PandemoniuM	servop is god essentially
22:42	PandemoniuM	notice the lower case g :]
22:42	xiong	Well, you got to that conclusion a lot faster than I did. Took me some time.
22:42	zsoltisawesome	lol
22:42	zsoltisawesome	indeed
22:43	PandemoniuM	but it would be great if servers operated 'agnostically'
22:43	xiong	I have been describing the common situation of a single servop as despotism or monarchy: a political concept, not a religious one. But I now think you are more correct.
22:43	PandemoniuM	servops were on the same level as any other player, and status/power is gained from town/city development
22:43	PilzAdam	I agree that developing is the next level of playing the game
22:43	xiong	The servop is the local god; if you have multiple servops, you have gods.
22:43	PandemoniuM	but there shouldnt be gods, imho
22:44	PandemoniuM	except for griefers, etc. taking out the trash
22:44	thexyz	they have absolute power; the way they could use it is another question
22:44	xiong	Ah. Very interesting point. And I'll agree to that, too. If I had a choice, I would prefer to live in a world without gods.
22:44	xiong	However -- no matter what we think is true of Reality -- it's very clear that no Minetest world is ever going to be created without a local god doing so.
22:45	zsoltisawesome	PilzAdam: https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/BRI5L5wQQKe1aHjSCpCX happy?
22:45	xiong	I object strenuously to the term "griefer"; it begs not one but many questions.
22:45	PandemoniuM	whys that. one who causes grief by ruining immersion = griefer
22:46	xiong	You just suggested roles for the local god, PandemoniuM; and it's this that I'm questioning. What should the local god do?
22:46	PilzAdam	xiong, what experience do you have in "building" a community?
22:46	PandemoniuM	local god listens to prayers :D
22:46	xiong	I think you and I both just said that we'd prefer not to have a god. Isn't the next best thing a god who does nothing?
22:46	PandemoniuM	he is everywhere at any given time so TP and Invis, never revealed
22:47	PandemoniuM	if someone on the server became a hitler, and was systematically farming and killing other players, i would want the god to smite them and ban them
22:47	xiong	PilzAdam, I just said I don't want to fight; I mean that. I understand that you don't like the whole idea. I have offered to take the discussion elsewhere.
22:47	PandemoniuM	but i wouldnt want him showering diamonds onto random people
22:47	xiong	Why, John? I'd like to know.
22:47	PilzAdam	xiong, this wasnt meant as an "attack" against you, Im really curious
22:48	PandemoniuM	i have also been the griefer on those very servers john lol
22:48	xiong	In a world where nobody knows you're a dog, you want me to show you my credentials? I have labored in the vineyards. I don't say I did well. I have a lot of experience in petty club-size politics.
22:49	PandemoniuM	there are people who play the game to interact, build in-game relationships, and accomplish things together to create immersion, and then theres the kids who only try to anger/piss off others to ruin immersion... then its just a hunk of pixels.
22:50	xiong	PandemoniuM, what would you say if I told you that I envision a server on which it would not be possible for anyone to call you, or anyone else, a "griefer"? Yet, one in which players who desired it could build in security.
22:50	PilzAdam	xiong, what might be a challenge is to do the step from theory to practice; i.e. an actual community growing in the way you imagine
22:51	xiong	It's not a merely theoretical discussion, PA. The testing server has already been up and running.
22:51	PandemoniuM	if i came over and blew up your building that you spent a week on, would you be mad? would i be griefing you?
22:51	PandemoniuM	or is that the game
22:51	PandemoniuM	you kick rocks and start over, only to waste more time until you finally become a griefer
22:51	xiong	Well, that's the question. What is the right way to view that? I build, you destroy. Why is that a problem? I don't say it's not; I say, in what way?
22:51	PilzAdam	xiong, if you have an idea of how the community should look like, how do you want to get the players act accordingly?
22:51	xiong	Should the god destroy you?
22:51	PandemoniuM	who are you to censor my creation?
22:52	PandemoniuM	if my neighbor wrongs me, i would pray to god that he gets smited
22:52	xiong	That's the discussion, PA. Is it the god's responsibility to decide what is and is not correct action?
22:52	PandemoniuM	then boom... comet flies across the sky
22:52	xiong	Ah, but did we not recently agree that we'd prefer *not* to have gods?
22:53	PandemoniuM	gods =/= players
22:53	xiong	That's the crux of my thinking right now. Should gods meddle in the affairs of men? In Reality, I do not hesitate to say NO.
22:53	xiong	I'm wondering why this should not carry over to Minetest.
22:53	thexyz	in reality we don't need gods, in minetest we do
22:53	xiong	Why?
22:53	PandemoniuM	but as a god, it depends on why i created this world
22:53	PandemoniuM	if i was a war god, then chaos rules
22:53	thexyz	because of how the game is made: it's easier to destroy than to build
22:53	PandemoniuM	if i was an animal god, hunting animals would not be allowed
22:53	PandemoniuM	etc
22:54	PilzAdam	xiong, yes, the god has to set "rules" to form the basic structures of the community
22:54	xiong	Ah. But cannot the world be built in another way, then, to make destruction more difficult? By the way, I'm not convinced you're right about this.
22:54	xiong	I'm not convinced of that, PA.
22:54	PilzAdam	nobody else has enough "power" over the players to do that, and without it the community wouldnt become what you want
22:54	thexyz	in the reality people control themselves
22:54	xiong	Then why not in the game?
22:55	PandemoniuM	because its not real life, i cant go to jail for blowing up your car
22:55	thexyz	because it's a game
22:55	thexyz	and that
22:55	PandemoniuM	i can laugh about it and call you a fag, like the typical griefer
22:55	xiong	I don't see how that matters.
22:55	PilzAdam	people dont feel responsible for their actions in games
22:55	PandemoniuM	thats grief-speak btw
22:55	thexyz	and this
22:55	thexyz	no responsibility
22:56	xiong	Okay. I'm not sure that most people are particularly responsible in Real Life, either. That's why we have cops.
22:56	PandemoniuM	LOL GTA. case and point
22:56	PilzAdam	in real life people are _a lot_ more responsible
22:56	PilzAdam	if they wouldnt be, they would simply die
22:56	PilzAdam	and dying is against the human nature
22:56	PilzAdam	while "dying" in games isnt that much of a deal
22:57	xiong	May I mention one example, without going into detail or pretending it's a total solution? On several worlds, now, including the recent testing server, I moved about a kilometer or two from primary spawn and built large establishments. I have been subjected to virtually no interference there.
22:57	PandemoniuM	i will say this. my perfect game is an allianced based game.. players form towns, towns form alliances, and alliances coordinate attacks. These attacks would allow others to pillage and destory your town block by block, but when the fight is over, your town springs back to its previous state
22:57	PandemoniuM	you have your creative side and your 'griefer' side fulfilled
22:58	PilzAdam	xiong, yes, thats a good system, but you could as well just play alone if you dont meet other players
22:58	PandemoniuM	yep
22:58	PandemoniuM	mercenaries
22:58	thexyz	you can't have a self-regulating minetest world without having a lot of players online; and you can't have a lot of players online for obvious reasons
22:58	xiong	What stops three or seven of us from all building five km from spawn?
22:58	PilzAdam	in real life people have something that they can / have to protect, in games they dont have this
22:59	xiong	Of course, PA.
22:59	xiong	What stops three or seven of us from all building five km from spawn?
22:59	thexyz	comparing games to real life is pointless anyway
22:59	PandemoniuM	regulating distance between town monuments aka center blocks of a town
22:59	PilzAdam	so in games they dont fear the consequences of their actions
22:59	xiong	I understand perfectly that we must accept a constant stream of suicide bombers.
22:59	PandemoniuM	yes
23:00	xiong	What stops three or seven of us from all building five km from spawn?
23:00	PandemoniuM	server regulating distance between towns
23:00	thexyz	nothing, do that
23:00	xiong	We have community; we're not alone. We're remote from the stream of suicide bombers. Why do we require a god to smite them?
23:00	xiong	Let them accumulate around the spawn and kill each other, if they like.
23:01	PilzAdam	but on the other hand you have to make sure that the "start" for new players, that would actually turn out to be "good for the community", isnt too difficult
23:01	thexyz	that's not why they're griefing
23:01	xiong	What's "difficult", PA?
23:01	thexyz	they don't want to kill or to destroy your building, they want to see your reaction
23:01	PilzAdam	i.e. if everyone had to walk 10 km to get to the community's main city then nobody would want to join it
23:01	PandemoniuM	nailed it
23:02	PilzAdam	s/i.e./e.g./
23:02	xiong	I did say I object to the term "griefer" or "grief" used as a verb. It makes it hard to discuss the actions and people in detail.
23:02	PandemoniuM	PA, i was figuring you could send invites to players, or give a person and individualized code so when they join the server, it would TP them 1 time to your town to formally be invited to it
23:03	thexyz	I'm not a psychologist so I cannot discuss people, sorry
23:03	xiong	Does everyone see that the previous two objections are opposed? thexyz says that the intent of some people is to upset others. PA says people will never walk so far to get to your safe community.
23:04	thexyz	xiong: PA was talking about ordinary players
23:04	xiong	Well. Please do remember I said, this is not a total solution.
23:04	xiong	Do you see the point, though?
23:04	thexyz	and I don't see a point in building a safe community on a server, you can just make your local server and play on it then
23:04	zsoltisawesome	hey all check out http://tinyurl.com/moontest !
23:05	thexyz	s/safe/isolated/
23:05	xiong	Isolated from what?
23:05	thexyz	from other people playing on that server
23:05	PandemoniuM	there should be ain invitation system to gain build permissions to regions
23:05	zsoltisawesome	yes
23:05	xiong	I'm challenging the basic assumption: that all the fun stuff happens within 300 m of primary spawn.
23:06	xiong	What if interesting people just hiked out? If the locals don't like the invaders, they can kill them.
23:06	PilzAdam	PandemoniuM, I personally dislike servers where I cant instantly build on
23:06	PilzAdam	it makes it too hard to "join" the server
23:06	xiong	The cost of killing an invader is much, much less than the cost of hiking out to vandalize again.
23:06	PandemoniuM	if i join a new server, i hike out and create my own town
23:07	PilzAdam	xiong, the problem is that there arent always people to "defend" their buildings
23:07	xiong	Clearly, residents should be able to return to a local spawn point. Residents, not just anyone who joins the server.
23:07	xiong	Why not, PA?
23:07	xiong	How much defense is required?
23:07	PandemoniuM	i also created a mod on my public server where i have created a cannon turret and mg turret
23:07	xiong	Must every single block be locked?
23:07	PandemoniuM	they also autofire at Helicopters/Starships when unmanned
23:08	PilzAdam	well, if someone starts to vandalise then someone else has to be there to kill him
23:08	xiong	I tell you: I have built nearer to spawn than 3 km and had no trouble there to speak of.
23:08	PandemoniuM	im going for alliances/npcs as mercs and soldiers, etc
23:08	PandemoniuM	and god help a new player who wanders 100 blocks within my town because they will be shot on sight by my cannons :D
23:08	PilzAdam	PandemoniuM, NPC soldiers? what hinders me from "protecting" the whole map with my soldiers?
23:09	xiong	You *assume* that if I am not there around the clock, my buildings will be destroyed, my farms looted. I say from experience, no.
23:09	PandemoniuM	town radius
23:09	PilzAdam	who defines what a town is?
23:09	PandemoniuM	so you join a server, you have a monument block
23:09	PandemoniuM	you hike out, set that sucker down, and it clears out a 64 block diameter
23:09	PandemoniuM	as you invite more players, diameter grows, etc
23:09	xiong	Why is that necessary?
23:10	PandemoniuM	to prevent people from placing cannon turrets and mg turrets all over the map
23:10	PilzAdam	PandemoniuM, so you are not allowed to build as much as you want as a "one-man-town"?
23:10	PandemoniuM	if im laying siege to someone, i might take a 'fort' block with me and it would allow me to do that
23:10	xiong	I don't really like the idea of machine gun nests.
23:10	PandemoniuM	PA, there needs to be ways to increase size of towns too
23:10	PilzAdam	some people build more, some less, but all should have the same right to protect all of their buildings
23:10	xiong	I think control of spawn points is the entire issue, really.
23:11	zsoltisawesome	if nobod yis going to talk about anything useful, im out
23:11	PilzAdam	all the current protection systems require a god that sets them
23:11	PilzAdam	so you have to beg the god to get land
23:11	PandemoniuM	thats dumb!
23:12	xiong	Let's say we start with that... obelisk. I place an obelisk; it's mine. I can die or just get bored wherever I am and choose to respawn at my obelisk.
23:12	PandemoniuM	if you have a monument block and build your initial area with it, you can regulate the space in between other towns
23:12	PilzAdam	now the challenge is to design a protection system that doesnt need a god but also doesnt allow one player to block the whole map
23:12	xiong	Now another fellow wanders in and we get to talking; we decide to settle together. I grant him access to the obelisk. Now it's not mine anymore; it's ours.
23:13	PandemoniuM	im taking what i made on my Manic Digger server and bringing it over here, but im concerned about lag issues
23:13	PilzAdam	while being flexible enough to not annoy massive builders
23:13	xiong	I don't protect any land at all with the obelisk. It just creates a spawn point.
23:13	PandemoniuM	well yeah PA thats a whole issue in itself
23:14	PandemoniuM	my public server is going in a specific direction, so there arent so much mass-builders
23:14	PilzAdam	xiong, a far away spawnpoint is "prorection" in some way
23:14	PandemoniuM	as there are town builders and fighting
23:14	xiong	Exactly, PA. SoftSecurity.
23:14	PandemoniuM	so xiong, if i came across your obelisk, i would carve space out beneath it and lay down lava for you
23:15	PandemoniuM	and that would be ok in your server right?
23:15	xiong	First you have to get there, though.
23:15	PilzAdam	if you want security you have to go far away, but then nobody will be able to join you (since you are so far away), and you basically build on your own
23:15	PandemoniuM	in the off chance i did
23:15	PilzAdam	so there is no need to play on a server anymore
23:15	PandemoniuM	if people formed towns there would be discovery involved. people would travel around just to map things out
23:15	xiong	I don't see how you come to both conclusions. Either the point is so far away that nobody will come; or it is not.
23:16	xiong	Exactly, PM!
23:16	xiong	Is that bad?
23:16	PandemoniuM	to each their own
23:17	PandemoniuM	each server is its own world right?
23:17	PandemoniuM	or parallel reality even
23:17	xiong	That's where we started the discussion.
23:17	PandemoniuM	:D
23:17	PandemoniuM	i feel so connected
23:17	PilzAdam	xiong, you dont understand the problem I see here?
23:18	xiong	So my first question, which does not seem to be answered, is: Why is it important for the local god to smite people who annoy others?
23:18	xiong	No, PA, I don't.
23:18	xiong	In Orby-land, formerly Wazu, I have seen several players hike out to the very edge of the map. This is for no long term purpose.
23:18	zsoltisawesome	stop, maybe today?
23:19	PilzAdam	if you want to build something you have 2 options: 1) build far away from the spawn 2) build near the spawn
23:19	xiong	I have never felt it a burden to hike a kilometer or two from spawn and, indeed, it's my routine practice in any server join for the first time.
23:20	kaeza	xiong, I'll reverse the question: why should people be annoyed by some total stranger coming to destroy their buildings?
23:20	xiong	I don't see why anyone that I might want to have as neighbors cannot also hike out so far.
23:20	PilzAdam	if you choose 1) then nobody will come to destroy your buildings, but also nobody will come to join your town
23:20	xiong	You say that, PA; but why is it true?
23:20	PandemoniuM	there should be public and private towns
23:21	PilzAdam	well, if its that hard to join the community on a server then new players will just move to other servers where its easier
23:21	PandemoniuM	public towns can 'vote' to ban people
23:21	xiong	Do you think I'm so peculiar, that I walk from spawn before I start to build? Nobody else does this?
23:21	kaeza	some players just want to play, they don't want to be burdened with the task of protecting their homes
23:21	PandemoniuM	i run from spawn
23:22	PilzAdam	xiong, actually yes, I do
23:22	xiong	What is "that hard" about walking a mile or two, even without roads, let alone 'fly'?
23:22		meldrian joined #minetest
23:22	PilzAdam	judging from what I have seen on servers
23:22	PilzAdam	most buildings are arround spawn
23:22	PandemoniuM	and i hate that
23:22	PandemoniuM	i hate joining and seeing 'this block is protected'
23:22	PandemoniuM	for miles
23:22	xiong	I will say that in BR-land I have seen a particular example of a community built very far from primary spawn. It's a couple klicks out. It's called 'Bohemia'.
23:23	PilzAdam	you have to make your world easy to join for normal players, but hard to destroy for "griefers"
23:23	xiong	Again, why?
23:23		jojoa1997 joined #minetest
23:23	PandemoniuM	joining a server should have options like a list of public towns, the option to 'spit me out somewhere on the map'
23:23	xiong	I do not understand why anyone feels a walk of a few klicks is an absolute barrier. It takes months to build a nice town; it takes half an hour to walk/swim/climb 5 km.
23:24	PilzAdam	because if its hard to join the people simply wont join it, and the server will stay empty; and if the second thing isnt true then many "griefers" will join and destroy everything, the people who are there will leave then too
23:24	PilzAdam	and in both cases there wouldnt be any community left
23:24	xiong	John, do you understand that once you get out there, you can establish a local spawn, just for you and your buddies?
23:24	xiong	You walk once; you're not required to walk again.
23:25	PilzAdam	I dont play longer than 30 minutes on a server; and I dont want to "waste" all this time on walking
23:25	xiong	You're just repeating the assertion, PA. You're not backing it up. I've offered counterexamples.
23:25	PilzAdam	xiong, you assume that people will play a lot on the server
23:25	xiong	No, I'm not assuming that.
23:25	PilzAdam	while I try to see it through the eyes of a regular user joining the server
23:26	xiong	Based on experience in other worlds, I see that players spend hundreds of hours digging and building.
23:26	PilzAdam	<xiong> I do not understand why anyone feels a walk of a few klicks is an absolute barrier. It takes months to build a nice town; it takes half an hour to walk/swim/climb 5 km.
23:26	PandemoniuM	everytime i join a server, and im running around some horribly huge town for a few minutes to the point where i cant easily get to an area to start building my OWN stuff in my OWN area away from everyone elses shit, i leave
23:26	xiong	Well. True or false?
23:26	PilzAdam	for a new user this half an hour is simply wasted time, he wont be willing to spend it
23:26	PilzAdam	since the player doesnt even know if its worth it
23:26	xiong	Well, if not, that's a good thing, yes?
23:27	PilzAdam	PandemoniuM, why do you play on servers?
23:27	PandemoniuM	to build towns with my friends
23:27	xiong	The value of a person to a community is proportional to the time he is willing to invest in it.
23:27	PilzAdam	PandemoniuM, so you dont want to join the community that is already on the server
23:28	PilzAdam	+?
23:28	PandemoniuM	nope
23:28	PandemoniuM	ive been a clan leader for many games my whole life
23:28	xiong	http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/SoftSecurity
23:28	PandemoniuM	im an orgnizer and leader imho
23:28	PandemoniuM	the greatest thing in the WORLD is a virtual earth
23:28	PandemoniuM	and to say everyone start here and walk outward is crazy
23:28	PilzAdam	xiong, well, but why would people invest time if they dont see what the end-result is?
23:29	xiong	How can anyone see that?
23:29	PilzAdam	on servers where they spawn in the main city they can see where they gonna spend their next few hours
23:29	PandemoniuM	why does earth have so many races and different cities?
23:29	xiong	The result is in the future.
23:29	xiong	By your thesis, nobody would ever build in a brand-new server. There's nothing there; why stick around?
23:29	PandemoniuM	god didnt set our spawn point and say ok new humans, run from here to go start your own stuff
23:29	PilzAdam	e.g. you walk an hour to a town and then you notice that its completly made out of nyancats (and you hate nyancats)
23:30	PilzAdam	xiong, the server admin usually builds something before the server goes online
23:30	xiong	Well, I didn't.
23:30	PandemoniuM	ok. cool
23:31	PandemoniuM	i didnt either
23:31	xiong	I started a testing server with near-zero configuration, no mods except what's bundled in, and put it on the public list.
23:31	PilzAdam	also, how do you know where all these towns are? how do you know where to walk?
23:31	proller	ask Calinou about griefing, he spent hours and days to sestroy
23:31	PandemoniuM	it would be cool for 'roads' to be build between allied towns
23:32	xiong	As I say, I walked out about a klick and a half and started building. After a day, another guy came out to the same area and started building. He built nice stuff, we got along.
23:32	PandemoniuM	aka top y level block always red brick between the 2 towns
23:32	VanessaE	hi
23:32	PandemoniuM	no, not flat john
23:32	PilzAdam	xiong, but does this system scale?
23:32	PandemoniuM	more like a 'Trails Mod
23:32	PilzAdam	does it work for a whole server?
23:32	PandemoniuM	in response to someone saying 'how do i know where to go
23:32	xiong	I don't really think it's useful to ask that question, PA. I don't think it's useful to say "That cannot work" about anything.
23:33	PilzAdam	or is it just a random thing that happend to you and that guy that will never happen again?
23:33	PandemoniuM	coming cross this dirt road would be an indicator that it goes to somewhere
23:33	xiong	The question is, What is desirable? Then we can talk about how to make it work.
23:33	PilzAdam	xiong, now you are moving away from the practice into the theory, which isnt good IMO
23:33	xiong	Um, no. I'm only discussing theory here.
23:34	PandemoniuM	I have a real question, as a dev coming from a different project called Manic Digger... my 4gb MT pub is very laggy with more than 3-4 players.. is this consistant across all servers? Is this normal?
23:34	xiong	One question, really: What is the proper role of the local god?
23:34	PilzAdam	in theory: nothing but hosting the server
23:34	xiong	"Proper", as in correct or desirable. What should the local god do?
23:34	VanessaE	to kick the asses of vandals when they show up? ;)
23:34	xiong	VE, I ask why.
23:35	xiong	I challenge the assumption that a person bent solely on destruction either is guaranteed to cause it -- or must be prevented from doing so.
23:35	VanessaE	well in my particular example, because people invest the time, sometimes the hard, actual money, to build their constructions in the game.
23:37	xiong	So my theory is that this is not necessary or even desirable.
23:37	PilzAdam	xiong, hmmm.... I think its not useful to talk about the theory only; it doesnt help when it comes to actually setting up a server, so I guess Ill quit the discussion now
23:37	VanessaE	(I refer of course to money used to buy hardware that is then used to improve one's gaming environment)
23:38	xiong	On several worlds, I have built far from spawn and had virtually no trouble there. I don't see that heavy security measures, particularly outgame security, is necessary.
23:39	PilzAdam	bye
23:39	xiong	I don't think it's useful to debate whether SoftSecurity *can* work. The question is whether it should be done; then we can discuss how to make it work.
23:40	VanessaE	xiong: celeron55 used to run a creative server early on.  it was shut down "due to a fuckton of griefing".
23:40	xiong	Nobody seems willing to discuss the question of what's desirable. Why, John?
23:40	xiong	VE, I object strongly to the term "griefing". I don't think it motivates clear thinking.
23:40	xiong	Did players vandalize the whole map?
23:41	VanessaE	object all you like, that is the term we use.
23:41	PandemoniuM	because these minecraft engine clones get not only their own brand of griefers, but Minecraft Fan-boys who are literally on a mission to ruin this game because they are 12 year old trolls
23:42	xiong	Why is it so hard for me to be clear?
23:42		arsdragonfly_ joined #minetest
23:42	xiong	I fully expect a constant stream of annoying people to come out of the spawn point. That's a given.
23:42	xiong	No debate is required.
23:43	xiong	I do desire to allow players to build without being greatly annoyed by the annoying people. That also is a given.
23:44	VanessaE	then you have no choice but to have protection measures in place of some kind, even if it's a hair-trigger on the rollback recorder.
23:44	xiong	I ask, plainly, why it is thought necessary to put hard obstacles in the way of the annoying people. By 'hard', I mean such things as land protection schemes and frequent intervention by people with super-player powers.
23:44	VanessaE	I use rollback, no interact by default, and the areas mod.
23:44	xiong	Again: Why?
23:44	VanessaE	because if I don't, the world WILL be destroyed and it makes more work for ME and my legitimate players to repair it.
23:44	xiong	Why is it *necessary*? Why is no other scheme within the world of discussion?
23:44	VanessaE	that's why.
23:45	kaeza	xiong, because it's our server, our domain, our universe; we are deities, we need no excuses
23:45	xiong	I don't see it really moves anything forward to say, flatly: This *will* happen, no matter what.
23:46	xiong	If we're all-powerful, kaeza; then why can't we figure out alternatives?
23:46	VanessaE	nearly any other server operator will tell you the same thing - we already do enough work to keep the fucking server running, and in some cases we pay money to keep it online.  That's enough.  To expect us to do more than we already do is unfair, imho.
23:46	xiong	I'd rather do less, VE.
23:46	VanessaE	so would I
23:46	kaeza	xiong, then less theory more practice
23:46	VanessaE	but we can't because...human nature.
23:46	xiong	Did anyone actually read this link: http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/SoftSecurity
23:46	VanessaE	12 year old trolls, as you call them, are like cats.
23:47	VanessaE	try herding them.
23:47	VanessaE	you will fail.  miserably.
23:47	VanessaE	no offense to the well-behaved contingent here.
23:47	PandemoniuM	it would be really cool to have this public town with signs all over it that said "Please do not destory town"
23:47	xiong	So you will shut off all discussion by saying: That won't work; so no point talking about it.
23:47	PandemoniuM	and ban anyone who sets off tnt, etc in that region
23:48	PandemoniuM	so that what comes OUT of the public dummy town are players who are not 12 year old minecraft nerds
23:48	VanessaE	xiong: no, I believe I said, quite clearly, that you will fail, not that a particular method will or will not work.
23:48	VanessaE	in fact I even said, and I quote, "try".
23:48	xiong	Well then. Can we move on from that assertion? I don't think it's useful.
23:48	VanessaE	that was your invitation to make an attempt rather than conjecture.
23:48	xiong	I came here to ask the question of what's desirable.
23:49	VanessaE	what is desirable is actions that will keep griefers from even bothering in the first place.
23:49	VanessaE	what would make Minetest (and other sandbox games) cease to be an inviting target?
23:49	xiong	John, the word "griefer" does not move the discussion. Who did what and why was that a problem?
23:49	PandemoniuM	i feel like sometimes servers need 'villians'
23:49	VanessaE	the answer will most likely also include things that will make it cease to be inviting to legit players.
23:49	PandemoniuM	but not 'griefers'
23:50	VanessaE	PandemoniuM: villains can be programmed.  griefers can't.
23:50	xiong	The whole map? All 61 km squared of it?
23:50	VanessaE	people destroyed buildings, took advantage of things like lava cooling or dug deep holes at the spawn, causing new players to fall to their deaths on respawn.
23:51	xiong	Well. Maybe you shouldn't build near spawn, then.
23:51	kaeza	why?
23:51	xiong	Why is elsewhere nowhere?
23:51	VanessaE	so then, because griefers destroy near the spawn, players shouldn't build there?  why?
23:51	VanessaE	why should players be forced to move away?
23:51	xiong	Why not?
23:51	VanessaE	no, why?
23:51	VanessaE	you answer first, you made the first assertion.
23:51	xiong	"Everybody"?
23:52	xiong	How about you want a house that is seen by people you respect and who respect you?
23:52	xiong	But you do not want your house to be seen by suicide bombers.
23:53	kaeza	alright, /me feels like feeding a troll
23:53	VanessaE	at the spawn on Creative I have a big tower I dubbed Minetest Services, Inc.  I'd like people to see that.  Why should I move it away from the spawn just because of some juvenile delinquents?
23:53	VanessaE	kaeza: noooooo
23:53	VanessaE	don't do it
23:53	* VanessaE	takes away kaeza's bag of peanuts :D
23:53	xiong	VE, it's a lot of work, punishing people for damaging buildings; it's not easy and no scheme is foolproof, is it? But simply building away from spawn cuts the vandalism to nearly zero.
23:53	kaeza	VanessaE, that was meant as past tense or whatever
23:53	VanessaE	oh heh
23:53	kaeza	:P
23:54	VanessaE	xiong: it's quite trivial "punishing" people, as you put it.
23:54	VanessaE	three commands and a griefer and his damage are history.
23:54	xiong	The point is not why are you forced to move. Given a new world, one place is just as good as any other, in the general sense. Why value the land near spawn?
23:54	xiong	No, VE; you're contradicting yourself. Earlier you complained about the workload.
23:55	VanessaE	xiong: yes, because the *rest* of maintaining a server contributes to that workload.
23:55	VanessaE	fixing griefings is only a small part of it.
23:55	xiong	You guys really have a hard time understanding me, don't you? You can build a town somewhere else. There will be plenty of people, buildings, shops, whatever. You can have a local respawn point there. You can have admirers, critics, collaborators.
23:56	VanessaE	xiong: so you propose, basically, a spawn in the middle of nowhere.  welcome to the 19th century.
23:56	xiong	The distance from spawn to your town is a number, a variable. You decide.
23:56	xiong	Again, why is that nowhere? What makes the spawn point somewhere?
23:57	VanessaE	because of the TIME.
23:57	VanessaE	jesus man, do you even PLAY on others' servers?
23:57	xiong	John, that's exactly my point. I routinely walk ten or fifteen minutes before I start to build.
23:57	xiong	Then I spend weeks or months building there.
23:57	Jordach	xiong, don't force your ideolagy on others
23:58	VanessaE	it isn't about walking 30 meters or 300 or 3000 - it's about spending 30 MINUTES just finding your way to the nearest town so you can build as part of that server's COMMUNITY and HAVE FUN.
23:58	PandemoniuM	calm down jordach
23:58	Jordach	he expects everyone to be the same when joining a server
23:58	VanessaE	oh wait
23:58	xiong	Force, Jordach? What's force? You run your server, we run ours? Or must we all run our servers the same way to avoid "forcing ideology" on new players?
23:58	VanessaE	I forgot, "fun" is not in your vocabulary, as you have plainly said in the past.
23:58	PandemoniuM	fun is a gateway to the devil
23:59	xiong	Why is there anger about this?
23:59		Gethiox joined #minetest
23:59	Jordach	xiong, some server's offer things to do, while others are sit back and relax, the ultimate thing to do is upto you
23:59	PandemoniuM	i force my players to sit in silence on my server and no build permissions
23:59	VanessaE	because you refuse to accept our side of this just as much as you seem to perceive that we don't accept your arguments.
23:59	VanessaE	the difference is that we have 2+ years of history in this game genre to look back on to decide how things are gonna go
23:59	xiong	VE, it's not symmetrical. You obviously can run a server as you do. Why cannot we run a server a different way?

← Previous day | Channels | #minetest index | Today | Next day → | Google Search | Plaintext

Powered by ilbot.