IRC log for #minetest, 2013-10-23

Time	Nick	Message
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00:06	NakedFury	exio4 I need 4 more billions for my second space mule
00:07	NakedFury	doing 785million per second and manually 1.5 billion
00:07	Exio4	151,099,426,950,256
00:08	Exio4	my cash atm ^
00:08	NakedFury	I hate you
00:08	Exio4	>:3
00:08	NakedFury	:\|
00:08	Exio4	my 12th space mule is 470billion tho
00:08	kaeza	s/cash/cookies/
00:08	NakedFury	why do you have 6k dealers?
00:08	Exio4	because economics in a future
00:09	Exio4	the game will allow the change of the buildings, when selling them, to vary
00:09	Exio4	== i could actually get a lot of money from them and they are doing nothing there :P
00:10	NakedFury	I need to buy Pinky Genetics to unlock more upgrades but I want to reach the billion per second goal
00:13	NakedFury	do you have a macro to click?
00:13	Exio4	no
00:13	Exio4	but i always bought in early states first the distributors
00:13	Exio4	and i abused the click
00:14	Exio4	the only things that i 'cheated' with clicks are the hell lot of dealers and so
00:15	NakedFury	so you plan to wait a little then sell them at higher prices. I didnt understand your reason ^^
00:16	NakedFury	do you think the game will stop doing DEA raids if I only have space labs and space distributors
00:16	NakedFury	?
00:16	Exio4	i don't think so
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00:16	NakedFury	I mean you have 46k negative chance and you still get raided
00:17	NakedFury	the money to keep buying dealers rises too fast
00:18	Exio4	lol
00:18	Exio4	they are 700m each
00:18	Exio4	or so
00:19	NakedFury	I have zero right now and price is $20. When I started playing they were cheaper.
00:19	NakedFury	20 first, 80 second, 180 third, etc
00:20	NakedFury	ok I did it. second space mule
00:20	NakedFury	next goal pinky genetics
00:20	Exio4	var cst = ((scl.amount) * scl.base_cost) * (scl.amount);
00:20	Exio4	if(scl.amount > 10) {
00:20	Exio4	cst *= 2;
00:20	Exio4	from the code
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00:22	Evergreen	Heyo
00:22	NakedFury	hey
00:22	NakedFury	ok now I do: $1,485,535,625 per second
00:22	NakedFury	don show me yours
00:22	NakedFury	gonna make me jealous
00:23	NakedFury	e
00:23	Exio4	haha
00:23	Exio4	my goal is 50bn/s
00:23	Exio4	the game gets boring in this part though
00:23	NakedFury	the meth o matic used to do more
00:24	Exio4	also
00:24	Exio4	i got a hell lot of meth and cash in uber-early stages of the game
00:24	Exio4	where the shit was less balanced and you could get a lot of mesh in a single night
00:25	NakedFury	I stated playing in Alpha
00:25	NakedFury	let me find version number
00:25	Exio4	wat.
00:25	Exio4	you played in that early stage and you didn't get over 913424582459345734534534534534$/s?
00:25	NakedFury	no
00:26	NakedFury	ok found it. Version 0.4
00:27	NakedFury	ohh unlocked the last manufacturing and distribution
00:27	NakedFury	Heisenbelt has an incredible description
00:27	Exio4	same here, version 0.4
00:29	NakedFury	ok bought the upgrades
00:29	NakedFury	ohh wait I had 2 more earlier to buy
00:29	NakedFury	Shed Propane and Dealer Slacks
00:30	NakedFury	ohh
00:30	NakedFury	im done with them
00:31	Exio4	i always cheated with the updates though
00:31	NakedFury	how?
00:32	Exio4	when i saw "distributors are gonna get expensive"
00:32	Exio4	bought distributors before f5
00:32	Exio4	and so on
00:32	Exio4	:P
00:32	* Exio4	is a bad player
00:33	NakedFury	f5?
00:33	Exio4	refresh page
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01:00	Dark_Soul	does anyone have the turrent mod for the technic mod i cant find it
01:01	NakedFury	2 more headshots
01:01	NakedFury	no dark, never knew we had such a mod
01:02	Dark_Soul	i thought we did
01:02	Dark_Soul	i have one by cornernote but it shots the placer
01:03	Dark_Soul	and i have tryed to make it not shot the placer but i cant seem to make it work
01:04	ShadowNinja	Dark_Soul: I know of no thereby mod in technic, currently or in the past.
01:04	Dark_Soul	hmm
01:05	Dark_Soul	well if i post the init.lua in pastebin is it possible for you to show me how to make it not shout the placer?
01:06	Dark_Soul	shoot*
01:08	ShadowNinja	Dark_Soul: I can't right now.
01:08	Dark_Soul	ok :/
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03:08	dafull97	Hello all, i have a Idea....
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03:33	paramat	hmmmm, hiya :] in case you haven't seen this post ... https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6396&p=2
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03:35	hmmmm	err..
03:35	hmmmm	nobody really iterates through data in that order, that's kind of weird
03:35	hmmmm	if I were to add that, it'd be specifically for you and you alone
03:35	hmmmm	if you're that serious about speed, you ought to re-write your mapgen in the core
03:41	paramat	no problem i did think it was a long shot to ask heh :)
03:44	paramat	however working through noise data column by column seems optimum for generating biomes ... ? biome selection is therefore run once per column
03:45	hmmmm	the reason why my noise is in XYZ order is because that's the order of mapblocks
03:45	hmmmm	like you just pointed out, that's not really the best way
03:45	hmmmm	minecraft has a YXZ order for example which makes way more sense
03:45	hmmmm	you iterate downward more than anything else
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03:48	paramat	okay thanks
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04:02	NakedFury	Exio4: new meth update
04:03	us_0gb	Meth? As in methamphetamines?
04:03	* us_0gb	is confused
04:03	NakedFury	from this game: http://clickingbad.tumblr.com/
04:03	NakedFury	breaking bad joke game
04:04	us_0gb	Ah, okay. My coworkers explained what that show is about to me the other day.
04:06	paramat	hmmmm, in case of confusion, when i write 'XZY-reversed order' in my post my terminology is the reverse of yours. to be clear i'm asking for a column by column order, iterating either up or down, i realise down is probably weird :)
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04:09	hmmmm	ah
04:15	paramat	the code i posted looks weird to me now :/ instead perhaps i should make nvals a non-flat 3d map and simply extract the noise values using an (x,y,z) index (however that is done), no 2nd voxelarea needed
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04:26	paramat	... okay proper terminology for standard is [z [y [x]]], so a column by column order would be [x [z [y]]] or [z [x [y]]]. thanks for your time :)
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05:08	ydooW	hi, could anybody help me please?
05:09	ydooW	is it possible to change the on-screen size of cubes in minetest?
05:09	us_0gb	I do not believe it is. Sorry.
05:09	ydooW	not even at the sources level?
05:10	us_0gb	At the sources level, everything is possible.
05:10	ydooW	i want to increase screen resolution so that i see more cubes on the screen, not so that they get bigger
05:10	ydooW	is there any other way?
05:10	ydooW	i tried to experiment with field of view, but that didn't help
05:10	us_0gb	Besides editing the source code? I don't think so.
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05:11	ydooW	i'm not aware of the source structure, would that be in lua part or C part?
05:13	us_0gb	The C++ part. The Lua is more for customization of worlds. The client is fully in C++, as far as I know.
05:15	ydooW	oh, i didn't realise that that should be a client-side change
05:15	ydooW	thanks
05:16	us_0gb	Yeah, it would be, as it doesn't effect the world, but how you view it.
05:17	ydooW	thanks a lot, i'll try to investigate the sources, this doesn't seem to be too difficult
05:17	us_0gb	Okay, best of luck!
05:19	NakedFury	you want to change the 1 meter cubes to some other size?
05:23	ydooW	i want to see more cubes on the screen when i maximize the window
05:24	ydooW	can that be controlled by changing 1meter size to something smaller?
05:26	kaeza	I don't think that would have a nice effect
05:27	ydooW	do you mean that would essentialy make it more like lego?
05:27	ydooW	like with smaller cubes
05:28	kaeza	no I mean it involves changing the field of view, or the camera position
05:28	kaeza	that will somewhat distort the image
05:28	ydooW	i tried to play with just the field of view
05:28	ydooW	that really distorted things
05:29	ydooW	so i thought maybe changing the cubes sizes can somewhat compensate that
05:32	ydooW	i found #define BS (10.0) in constants.h - it's commented as "size of node". does that mean cube size?
05:32	us_0gb	The cubes are called nodes, so maybe.
05:32	kaeza	eh no
05:33	kaeza	BS is used for all kind of calculations AFAIK
05:33	kaeza	even stuff that's stored on disk
05:33	ydooW	i just found it used in the calculation of the position of the camera
05:33	ydooW	like BS*1.6..
05:33	ydooW	looks like the height of the player
05:33	kaeza	changing it esentially makes your client incompatible
05:34	us_0gb	Oh, that sounds unpleasant.
05:35	ydooW	you mean the change must be closer to the screen routines?
05:36	kaeza	grep '\bBS\b' -R src/
05:36	ydooW	yeah, just looking through the list
05:36	ydooW	of matches
05:37	kaeza	just try!
05:37	ydooW	to change it?
05:37	kaeza	and get us a screenie of the result :P
05:38	us_0gb	Might as well. The worst that will happen is a broken build.
05:38	kaeza	(I make no guarantees to the integrity of your harddisk, computer, dog, cat, or anything else though)
05:38	ydooW	might require some time to set up the build environment, never done that for minetest
05:39	ydooW	will it run in a MV?
05:39	ydooW	VM
05:39	kaeza	why not?
05:39	us_0gb	I think I read about someone running it in a virtual machine.
05:40	us_0gb	Mouse control was difficult because of how the virtualization software handled mouse input, but all else was well.
05:40	ydooW	i was worried about possible performance issues, but for a single frame that shouldn't be a big deal;o)
05:42	ydooW	i will probably need to install irrlich
05:42	ydooW	t
05:45	NakedFury	http://i1-games.softpedia-static.com/screenshots/Cube-World-Castle-Raiders-Trailer_2.jpg
05:47	NakedFury	changing or making a above shoulder type camera will help see more nodes(cubes) in the game
05:47	NakedFury	also changing their size will help like in that image link
05:48	NakedFury	thats another game but it also uses cubes like in MT and minecraft
05:48	ydooW	that's what i was imagining
05:48	ydooW	i think i saw someone playing it
05:48	ydooW	but why would above-shoulder camera help?
05:49	NakedFury	it wouldnt. it would just let you see more of the world. thought that could also help you
05:50	ydooW	do you mean further by saying "more"?
05:50	ydooW	that wouldn't increase number of horizontal blocks, would it?
05:51	ydooW	i mean on the axis of left to right
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05:53	NakedFury	well it would make you view the game from some meters behind the character so if before in first person view you could see 3 nodes at a distance then now you can perhaps see 4 or 5. its just messing with the view.
05:53	NakedFury	changing the sizes will help you see more nodes in vertical and horizontal.
05:56	ydooW	damn, forgot about openal...
05:56	ydooW	just give me a bit more time
05:59	NakedFury	that will change the game from how its normally played. instead of three nodes tall minimum for a house you will need 6 if you decreased size by half, etc. It might be fun that way too.
06:00	ydooW	i thought that would decrease the player size as well
06:02	NakedFury	player size is separate
06:02	NakedFury	I think.
06:03	ydooW	getEyeOffset uses BS*1.5
06:03	ydooW	so changing BS will definitely affect that
06:03	ydooW	nor sure if there is something else
06:03	ydooW	nor=nto
06:03	ydooW	not
06:15	ydooW	i changed the BS to 2.0 from 10.0, and don't really see any difference
06:15	ydooW	apart from it refusing to open the old world
06:15	ydooW	so it is incompatible indeed
06:15	ydooW	but when i generated a new worlds - it just looks the same
06:17	kaeza	that's because everything is multiplied by BS
06:17	ydooW	but it is then scaled back according to the window size
06:18	kaeza	I guess you should look around src/camera.cpp:358
06:19	ydooW	that's where i am now...
06:20	ydooW	somewhere near aspect ratio and FOV
06:21	kaeza	what you want is not possible, or just not have the desired effect
06:21	kaeza	it's not like a 2D tile mapping engine where you would just draw the tiles smaller
06:22	ydooW	that's 3d, which is even more flexible
06:22	kaeza	as NakedFury said, you'd have to adjust the camera pos, but that would have unintended side-effects
06:22	ydooW	it looks like they did it somehow one the screenshot provided by NakedFury
06:23	kaeza	yes, but in that case it's not first person view
06:24	NakedFury	if the camera is change to Over the shoulder or Third person View it can cause problems in tight spaces, caves, etc
06:24	ydooW	ah, you mean if i essentially take camera miles behind - everything will become small?
06:24	kaeza	if you look that screenshot, the camera is way high up
06:25	ydooW	but even in the game on the screenshot i don't think the number of cubes is automatically adjusted when the window size is changed
06:35	khonkhortisan	the less square your window is the worse the perspective is
06:36	ydooW	but can't you compensate that by putting appropriate horizontal/vertical amount of cubes to match the aspect ratio?
06:39	khonkhortisan	there's only one number for Field of Vision, which is then spread out across the dimensions
06:40	ydooW	you mean having two separate field of visions for horizontal and vertical dimensions would fix that?
06:41	kaeza	that's not how it works
06:42	kaeza	there are only two ways of achieving what you want: either move the camera back, or increase the FOV
06:42	NakedFury	Field of View will let you see more
06:42	kaeza	none of them is particularly nice
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06:43	NakedFury	http://roi.webfactional.com/img/so/fieldOfView.gif
06:43	NakedFury	an example
06:44	ydooW	can increasing both window size and FOV fit more cubes on the screen?
06:47	ydooW	or should it be curved as well to compensate fisheye effect?
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07:19	khonkhortisan	I use 120FOV
07:20	ydooW	and what's the window size you use?
07:21	khonkhortisan	maximized inside 1440x900
07:22	ydooW	i just tried increasing the player height
07:22	khonkhortisan	I'm not close enough to my screen for the angle to be correct
07:22	ydooW	looks a bit closer to what i wanted
07:23	ydooW	not quite good enough
07:30	ydooW	i wonder if it is possible to survive FOV=360...
07:33	ydooW	couldn't make that work in minetest, but some people could do that in real world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr8P0rel6Vw
07:36	ydooW	found a place in minetest where the fov is limited to 170 degrees
07:38	khonkhortisan	In bzflag it's not limited, but 360 and 180 break it, anything over 180 is upside-down, and anything too high (just below 120) lets you see through walls that are beside/above you
07:39	NakedFury	player character size is different from player view height, so the devs tell me. So if you change the size of the character, something like 1.5 meters then you have to change the player camera to match
07:39	ydooW	i changed both size and eye offset
07:39	NakedFury	ohhh to how much?
07:39	ydooW	so i was feeling like a long thing enderman;o)
07:39	NakedFury	and if you have the skills would it be hard to make that into Lua code too?
07:39	ydooW	high, but narrow
07:40	khonkhortisan	I'd like to see a game that allowed a 360fov without virtual reality equipment in a way that didn't break
07:40	ydooW	you mean make player height adjustible from lua?
07:40	ydooW	the youtube video i found is a nice example
07:40	ydooW	they use cylinder projection
07:41	NakedFury	if such a thing is possible it would allow for more game types. like the Dwarf mode a user in forum was trying
07:41	ydooW	which is a bit different, so it will probably require changes to the irrlicht
07:41	NakedFury	or taller people, etc
07:41	ydooW	i think dwarf mode is useless without decreasing the size of blocks as well
07:42	ydooW	because you'll break huge block with the same effort
07:42	ydooW	but a giant mode might be interesting
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07:42	ydooW	the only problem is that becoming taller means you can't break cubes under your feet. they will be out of reach
07:43	NakedFury	dwarf mode can be something like 1.25 or just a little over 1 meter. smaller would be Gnomes or Hobbits or Halflings
07:43	NakedFury	also brake time is already configurable in lua so it can be changed too
07:43	NakedFury	a giant would be cool too
07:44	NakedFury	but such a mode would need a special new breaking method so he takes many nodes at once
07:44	ydooW	yeah, breaking many nodes at once might make it usable
07:45	NakedFury	also depends on how big is the giant.
07:46	NakedFury	mny possibilities
07:47	ydooW	is it currently possible to change anything player-related from lua?
07:47	ydooW	i need a starting point
07:47	NakedFury	skins
07:47	NakedFury	but I think 3d model, view point, height is all done in source
07:48	ydooW	view point and height definitely are
07:49	kaeza	3d model is also configurable via Lua
07:49	kaeza	see minetest_game/mods/player.lua
07:50	NakedFury	I dont know if there is a player width too in source
07:50	NakedFury	there must be
07:50	ydooW	there is
07:50	NakedFury	that has to be changed too
07:50	ydooW	but not explicitly
07:50	ydooW	that will pose more problems
07:51	NakedFury	so you can have 2 node fat characters, etc
07:51	kaeza	err... mods/default/player.lua
07:51	NakedFury	well I just mention it for the Giant idea
07:52	ydooW	the next step would be to add size-changing mushrooms;o)
07:52	NakedFury	Alice in Wonderland reference
07:53	NakedFury	been watching Once Upon a Time in Wonderland
07:54	ydooW	then it would be nice to adjust jumping height as well
07:55	NakedFury	Camera height, player height, width, arm reach.
07:55	NakedFury	adjusting gravity can affect jumping
07:55	NakedFury	and I think that was already in lua
07:56	ydooW	that notion of having player-based gravity is a bit strange
07:56	ydooW	gravity should be the same in the world
07:57	ydooW	perhaps adding mass and jump force can be a solution
07:57	NakedFury	well player jump and player speed can be changed but in source
07:58	kaeza	player speed can also be changed in Lua
07:58	NakedFury	the player normal walking speed?
07:58	kaeza	yep
07:58	kaeza	player:set_physics_override()
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07:59	kaeza	try PilzTest; it makes you slower the more hungry you are
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08:14	ydooW	yes, something like that physics override can be implemented for height
08:17	JamesTait	Good morning all; happy Mole Day! :-D
08:25	ydooW	that's a nice comparison of FoVs: http://strlen.com/gfxengine/fisheyequake/compare.html
08:26	ydooW	fisheye is the answer...
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08:43	sfan5	hi everyone
08:48	kaeza	hi
09:06	nore	hi sfan5
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09:52	germa	hi to all
09:53	VanessaE	hi
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09:53	germa	sorry... im the man of questions :) i try to install texture... but... why i find only minetest.conf.example and no minetest.config?
09:53	germa	hi vanessae
09:54	germa	you make texture :) you are a vip!
09:54	VanessaE	by default, minetest.conf doesn't exist -- until you start the game once
09:54	VanessaE	and then it'll be in the minetest folder, or in ~/.minetest
09:54	VanessaE	me, a vip? heh. hardly.
09:55	germa	yes,,, i can't find...
09:55	germa	mmm
09:55	VanessaE	what is the path of your minetest folder?
09:55	germa	don
09:56	germa	ops
09:56	germa	i cant write the path
09:56	germa	ahah
09:56	VanessaE	ah write permission would help.
09:56	VanessaE	where is the folder?
09:56	germa	slash home slash andrea slash minetest
09:56	VanessaE	ok
09:56	VanessaE	this is a run-in-place build?
09:57	germa	yes
09:57	VanessaE	(btw, start with two slashes when you write it in IRC and it'll usually make it through)
09:57	VanessaE	ok
09:57	germa	thanks
09:58	VanessaE	can you: ls -lda /home/andrea/minetest
09:59	germa	and now? i have the permission?
09:59	VanessaE	it should output a single line - paste it here
10:00	germa	drwxrwxr-x 19 andrea andrea 4096 ott 23 11:50 /home/andrea/minetest
10:00	VanessaE	ok, that looks fine
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10:01	VanessaE	now do, ls -la /home/andrea/minetest (without the 'd')
10:01	VanessaE	and go to pastebin.com to paste the result
10:01	VanessaE	it'll be several lines
10:02	germa	sorry i don't want take your time... http://pastebin.com/a9TNijya
10:02	VanessaE	it's okay
10:02	VanessaE	I got somewhere else to be? ;)
10:02	VanessaE	ok that all looks right
10:02	VanessaE	how do you start minetest?
10:03	germa	ahah thank you
10:03	VanessaE	I mean, the exact command
10:03	germa	i start from bin folder
10:04	VanessaE	the exact command?
10:04	germa	i double click in the executable minetest file :)
10:04	VanessaE	ok
10:05	VanessaE	try this: cd /home/andrea/minetest ; bin/minetest
10:05	VanessaE	copy&paste that to a terminal
10:05	VanessaE	then close the game and check the folder again, see if it creates the config this tim,e
10:06	germa	no
10:06	VanessaE	ok, now:
10:06	VanessaE	open CMakeCache.txt in an editor such as mousepad, gedit, or whatever you have handy
10:07	germa	yes, open
10:07	VanessaE	search the document for, RUN_IN_PLACE
10:07	germa	RUN_IN_PLACE:BOOL=0
10:07	VanessaE	AH!
10:08	VanessaE	that's the problem.
10:08	VanessaE	your config is not going to be in that folder.
10:08	germa	WRITE 1?
10:08	VanessaE	it's gonna be in ~/.minetest <-- note the dot
10:08	pitriss	germa: in your case is your config in ~/.minetest
10:08	VanessaE	beat you to id, pitriss :)
10:08	germa	yes... i don't have the folder with dot
10:08	VanessaE	germa: it won't show up by default
10:08	VanessaE	the leading dot should hide it
10:09	VanessaE	try, ls -la ~/.minetest
10:09	VanessaE	also:
10:09	germa	oh yes
10:09	VanessaE	this is not a run-in-place build
10:09	VanessaE	you have to `make install` to proprly install it
10:09	germa	wait... i don't unistall minetest from repisitory
10:09	VanessaE	OR you can rebuild with that flag set to 1 ( cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 )
10:10	VanessaE	how did you obtain this build?
10:10	pitriss	VanessaE: or he should recompile with run_in_place:)
10:10	pitriss	hehe im slow today:D
10:10	VanessaE	pitriss: beat you to it again ;)
10:10	germa	from here https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3837
10:10	VanessaE	ah.
10:10	VanessaE	you must have used the non-portable link
10:11	germa	yes
10:11	VanessaE	his link is wrong.
10:11	germa	i used that
10:11	VanessaE	just cd to the minetest folder and do, make install
10:11	VanessaE	then run minetest without any path. just type minetest.
10:12	germa	the folder andrea ecc...
10:12	VanessaE	yes
10:12	VanessaE	cd /home/andrea/minetest ; make install
10:12	VanessaE	OR
10:12	VanessaE	you can rebuild it as run-in-place:
10:13	VanessaE	cd /home/andrea/minetest ; cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 ; make
10:13	VanessaE	and then run it like you usually do.
10:13	VanessaE	either way will work, it just depends on your preference.
10:13	germa	oh i try the second drun in place
10:13	VanessaE	ok
10:13	VanessaE	it will take a couple minutes to recompile
10:14	germa	i have nothing to do
10:14	VanessaE	ok
10:14	germa	start
10:15	VanessaE	yep, if the build finished without error, start it like you usually do.
10:15	VanessaE	then exit and check the folder.
10:15	germa	yes...
10:15	VanessaE	did it create the new config file?
10:16	germa	i'm on 13%
10:16	VanessaE	oh ok
10:16	VanessaE	pray. ;)
10:16	germa	eheh
10:17	germa	thank you again
10:17	VanessaE	you're welcome, hope this works
10:17	germa	yes,,, in other case don't install texture :)
10:18	VanessaE	admittedly if this doesn't work, it would make it a little harder to do ;)
10:18	germa	and i can't
10:19	VanessaE	?
10:19	germa	I can't do harder solutions, im not good user
10:19	VanessaE	you'll learn
10:19	germa	yes... wannabe
10:19	VanessaE	the fact that you're using Linux is a god step.
10:20	germa	yes, i like it
10:20	VanessaE	er good steop
10:20	germa	but i need to study
10:20	VanessaE	sigh
10:20	VanessaE	I can't type at all today
10:21	germa	ahah
10:21	germa	mystic
10:21	germa	but i read "good"
10:21	VanessaE	right
10:22	VanessaE	waits hopes
10:23	germa	ahah
10:23	germa	i see
10:23	germa	oh finish
10:23	VanessaE	ok
10:23	VanessaE	bin/minetest
10:23	VanessaE	without a leading slash.
10:26	VanessaE	did it work?
10:26	germa	oh wow! work... i see the texture in game... but now try to "reinstall"
10:26	VanessaE	yay!
10:26	germa	thank you!
10:26		VanessaE joined #minetest
10:26	germa	ops... leaving
10:27	VanessaE	oops
10:27	VanessaE	naw, typo
10:27	VanessaE	wrong key
10:27	germa	thank you!
10:27	germa	ahah
10:27	VanessaE	anyways, no need to 'reinstall'\
10:27	VanessaE	all your stuff is still there
10:27	VanessaE	you have a minetest.conf now?
10:28	germa	no ahah
10:28	VanessaE	wha?
10:28	VanessaE	maybe you need to change some random setting in the game first
10:28	germa	ah ok
10:28	VanessaE	try going to the 'settings' tab and, oh, turn off fancy leaves let's say
10:29	VanessaE	then exit the game and check the folder again
10:29	VanessaE	hey Taoki
10:30	germa	yes.. now have the minetest.conf file
10:30	VanessaE	yay!!!!
10:30	germa	big vanessae!
10:30	germa	yee
10:30	VanessaE	now you can play normally (feel free to turn that checkbox back on if you want, by the way)
10:31	VanessaE	ok since you're up and running, I'm gonna head off. I'll be back on some time later today
10:31	VanessaE	good luck and have fun :-)
10:32	VanessaE	kaeza: I'll pull that later. too tired to mess with it. :-)
10:32	germa	thank you very much again Vanessae
10:32	VanessaE	you're quite welcome
10:32	VanessaE	night
10:33	kaeza	VanessaE, sure :)
10:33	kaeza	nite
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10:42	germa	yeee i have the texture... i have to copy files in texture/all now i can try to make zelda texture! ahah
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12:11	nore	ShadowBot has quit (Excess Flood) <-- wtf?
12:13	reactor	Flood bot.
12:14	nore	nope, usually ShadowBot bans people for excess flood
12:14	ShadowNinja	nore: A plugin used sendMsg instead of queueMsg too much.
12:14	nore	ShadowNinja, how is ShadowBot programmed?
12:14	ShadowNinja	nore: I am yelling at the developer now.
12:14		hmmmm joined #minetest
12:14	nore	have you the source?
12:15	ShadowNinja	nore: Yes, it is a Limnoria bot.
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14:29	thexyz	> Not being able to program is the illiteracy of this century.
14:30	nore	where did you see that?
14:30	thexyz	hn
14:31	thexyz	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6598361
14:36		zat joined #minetest
14:38	kaeza	dat BS
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14:50	PilzAdam	Hello everyone!
14:50	nore	hi
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15:02	Jordach	good afternoon MinetestBot
15:02	Jordach	</testing_ai>
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15:06	MinetestBot	Somebody thinks you should read the manual. The wiki for dev related questions is at http://dev.minetest.net , the regular wiki is at http://wiki.minetest.net.
15:06	MinetestBot	Another satisfied customer. Next!
15:06	Jordach	silly MinetestBot
15:07	PilzAdam	yay! more bot spamming!
15:09	kaeza	a !pil command would be nice too
15:09	kaeza	just in case :P
15:09	kaeza	( http://lua.org/pil/ )
15:10	PilzAdam	and !pilz, to ping me
15:11	PilzAdam	(or, with a 50% chance get a free beer ;-))
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15:20	Jordach	kaeza, i might be able to do that
15:21	Jordach	essentially: if MSG == "!pil": chan.send("Someone thinks you need to read the Lua manual.")
15:22	* Jordach	learned a neat trick for nocookie
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15:25	Jordach	it allows me to avoid having to enable cookies for every tab
15:25	Jordach	(that stupid EU bullshit about allowing cookies)
15:32	Jordach	sfan5, https://github.com/Jordach/minetestbot-modules/commit/fd1a0ea78b261f2ff90823f676f4515e32e4e8ae
15:33	Jordach	phew -- didnt fuck that up first try
15:33	Jordach	(that's a first!)
15:33	sfan5	hm
15:34	sfan5	Jordach: add it to COMMANDS.md
15:34	Jordach	SHIT; KNEW IT
15:35	sfan5	I just got a new TV with WiFi
15:35	sfan5	lets portscan it
15:35	Jordach	https://github.com/Jordach/minetestbot-modules/commit/e6873e3f44e75c7bcf63303a27c896d2dfc70079
15:36		IceCraft joined #minetest
15:38	kaeza	!questions
15:38	MinetestBot	Someone thinks that your question is inaccurate or doesn't follow the guidelines. Read here how to make it right: http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
15:38	sfan5	Jordach: formatting pls
15:38	sfan5	do you see how every line is lined up
15:38		markveidemanis joined #minetest
15:38	markveidemanis	Hi
15:38	sfan5	make a shorter description
15:38	sfan5	!op
15:39		Topic for #minetest is now http://minetest.net \| NEWS: Minetest 0.4.7 released; 0.4.8 will be released soonâ„¢ \| RULES: be patient, respect other users, here and in other channels \| CORE DEVS: #minetest-dev \| SERVERS: http://minetest.net/servers \| IRC LOGS: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/ \| WIKI: http://wiki.minetest.net \| Don't ask about asking questions. \| john_minetest wins a free beer
15:39	sfan5	!deop
15:39	markveidemanis	5.81.157.109:30010 is run on a kindle and has all the mods i am going to put on then proper server
15:40	Jordach	fixed
15:40	Jordach	sfan5, ^
15:40	Jordach	i also lined up the breaks and shit just because the others are
15:41	Jordach	<Thunderbird> Merged #5.
15:41	Jordach	:D
15:41	sfan5	MinetestBot: reload shortutils
15:41	MinetestBot	sfan5: <module 'shortutils' from '/home/user/mtbot/modules/shortutils.pyc'> (version: 2013-09-28 06:59:34)
15:41	Jordach	!pil
15:41	sfan5	oh
15:41	sfan5	MinetestBot: reload shortutils
15:41	MinetestBot	sfan5: <module 'shortutils' from '/home/user/mtbot/modules/shortutils.py'> (version: 2013-10-23 15:41:43)
15:41	Jordach	!pil
15:41	MinetestBot	Someone thinks you need to brush up on or learn Lua, please go to: http://lua.org/pil/
15:41	Jordach	woot
15:42	Jordach	kaeza, ^^^
15:42	kaeza	:D
15:42	PilzAdam	!pil Jordach
15:42	MinetestBot	Someone thinks you need to brush up on or learn Lua, please go to: http://lua.org/pil/
15:42	PilzAdam	!pil kaeza
15:42	MinetestBot	Someone thinks you need to brush up on or learn Lua, please go to: http://lua.org/pil/
15:42	PilzAdam	!pil sfan5
15:42	MinetestBot	Someone thinks you need to brush up on or learn Lua, please go to: http://lua.org/pil/
15:42		Dan_D joined #minetest
15:42	PilzAdam	she should say that to everyone automatically
15:42	sfan5	PilzAdam: do you always need to take that way..
15:42	Dan_D	How do I use the file hostin gthing on the forum?
15:43	sfan5	Dan_D: is it really that hard?
15:43	kaeza	yay! more bot spamming!
15:43	Dan_D	I don't know what the bbcode is
15:43	Dan_D	The boxshowing downloads etc
15:43	sfan5	Jordach: note for future pulls: I can reload an existing module at runtime, but not add new ones at runtine
15:43	Jordach	sfan5, noted
15:43	Jordach	(that's probably why I added it to shortutils.py)
15:44	sfan5	it fit perfectly into shortutils
15:44		germa joined #minetest
15:44	sfan5	!seen already has 74 people in its DB
15:44	germa	hi!
15:45	sfan5	hi
15:45	germa	suggest mods?
15:45	Dan_D	I can add files, but can't work out how to show them in the actual box.
15:46	sfan5	germa: http://minetest.net/mods
15:46	Dan_D	Hello? Help?
15:47	germa	yes... i see... but any suggestion for good mods?
15:47	Dan_D	Mesecons, Homedecor, Simplemobs
15:47	kaeza	sfan5, homedecor should probably be in that list
15:47	sfan5	Dan_D: first post the post, then go to the attachments page and use that link
15:47	Dan_D	But how to show the downloads etc?
15:47	germa	i install,bed, simple mobs, boats and Jkmod
15:48		Calinou joined #minetest
15:48	Dan_D	I just get the link
15:48	Dan_D	Which doesn't show the downloads box etc
15:48	Dan_D	Oh wait never mind
15:49	sfan5	kaeza: added
15:49	kaeza	thanks :)
15:49	Dan_D	How do I change the position of the box?
15:50	germa	wow... good mods thanks
15:50	sfan5	apparently nginx runs on my new TV
15:51	nore	sfan5, !pil should ping the targeted user too
15:51	Jordach	well that's a start
15:51	sfan5	what 'bout a pull request?
15:51	Jordach	oh fuck tyhat
15:51	Jordach	that*
15:51		iqualfragile joined #minetest
15:52	sfan5	lets throw nmap at it
15:52		rsiska joined #minetest
15:52	* Jordach	has been watching Civ 5 gameplay all day
15:52	* nore	is too lazy to do a pull...
15:52	sfan5	well then
15:53	Dan_D	How to change the position of the downloads box?
15:53	PilzAdam	Dan_D, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=115301#p115301 I dont understand that
15:53	PilzAdam	it doesnt really make sense to me, can you explain your point?
15:53	Dan_D	Well, what if I update a mod very regularly?
15:53	sfan5	"git clone forum uploads" wat
15:53	Dan_D	I don't want people to have to go to the page every time to download
15:53	sfan5	do you expect a forum to host a git repo with pull request ability for you?
15:54	Dan_D	No, the point was only Github can do that
15:54	Dan_D	Which is why github is better imo
15:54	PilzAdam	oh, I see that you dont understand my post
15:55	PilzAdam	github is just a host for git repos
15:55	Dan_D	Oh right
15:55	PilzAdam	what you want is all done by git, not github
15:55	Dan_D	I though it hosted the files too
15:55	Dan_D	I thought git and github were the same thing
15:55	Jordach	lol
15:55	Jordach	Dan_D, using talktalk btw
15:55	PilzAdam	read that: http://git-scm.com/book
15:55	Dan_D	Still, how do I move the downloads box around the post?
15:56	Jordach	Dan_D, they always sit at the bottom
15:56	Dan_D	Otherwise it is stuck at the end.
15:56	PilzAdam	sfan5, !git for that link: http://git-scm.com/book
15:56	Dan_D	Ok
15:56	Jordach	PilzAdam, five secs
15:56	Dan_D	Shame
15:57	sfan5	Jordach: pull first
15:57	Dan_D	Well, the link seems to work for ship.we
15:57	Dan_D	Yay I guess
15:58	nore	http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2013-10-23 <-- #minetest-dev was not very active today
15:58	sfan5	Jordach: I said pull ( https://github.com/Jordach/minetestbot-modules/commit/591326427181721cb5656d1bfd06491d66759c80 )
15:59	Jordach	oh shit
15:59	Jordach	and git shell isnt in start meny
15:59	Jordach	menu*
16:00	PilzAdam	my windows 7 in this dualboot recently destroyed itself
16:00	nore	sfan5, you could change "Somebody" with the same of the one that said !rtfm too
16:00	PilzAdam	it said it needed to check the filesystem, found something wrong, and "fixed" it
16:00	PilzAdam	now every boot ends in a bluescreen
16:04		Ritchie joined #minetest
16:05	nore	PilzAdam, lol
16:06	nore	did it destroy your linux too?
16:06	PilzAdam	no
16:06	PilzAdam	otherwise I would have sued Microsoft
16:07	nore	what did it find wrong?
16:07	PilzAdam	how should I know that? windows doesnt tell its users anything
16:08	Jordach	sfan5, git is being an ass; it won't push my perfectly good changes despite i git pulled correctly
16:08	Jordach	to my patch-2 branch
16:08	nore	yeah, forgot about that part
16:08	PilzAdam	Jordach, force push after you rebased to master
16:12	Jordach	https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/pull/7
16:12	Jordach	fixed
16:13	Jordach	sfan5, ^
16:19	germa	nooo why the helicopter mod no have texture... noooo
16:24	* Jordach	pokes sfan5 again
16:26	Jordach	!pil PilzAdam
16:26	MinetestBot	PilzAdam, Someone thinks you need to brush up on or learn Lua, please go to: http://lua.org/pil/
16:26	MinetestBot	zadam, Someone thinks you need to brush up on or learn Lua, please go to: http://lua.org/pil/
16:26	Jordach	that S in someone needs to not be a capital
16:27	Jordach	same for the others too
16:29	Jordach	https://github.com/Jordach/minetestbot-modules/commit/c0b95a148b3445e23612b233447b2f1d40d7bd30
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16:32	Jordach	hello Evergreen
16:32	Jordach	i've been extending MinetestBot again
16:32	Evergreen	Hey
16:32	Jordach	now with !git [nick] and !pil [nick]
16:33	Jordach	!pil Evergreen
16:33	MinetestBot	Evergreen, Someone thinks you need to brush up on or learn Lua, please go to: http://lua.org/pil/
16:33	Jordach	that fucking typo annoys the shit out of me
16:38	thexyz	wow
16:38	thexyz	that's truly awesome
16:39	thexyz	!git Jordach
16:39	thexyz	no?
16:39	Jordach	thexyz, https://github.com/Jordach/minetestbot-modules/commit/c0b95a148b3445e23612b233447b2f1d40d7bd30
16:39	Jordach	sfan5 just needs to MERGE
16:39	Jordach	wink wink
16:40	thexyz	meh
16:40	thexyz	that code quality
16:40	Jordach	does it work
16:40	thexyz	indeed it does
16:40	Jordach	!pil thexyz
16:40	MinetestBot	thexyz, Someone thinks you need to brush up on or learn Lua, please go to: http://lua.org/pil/
16:41	thexyz	!stfu Jordach
16:41	thexyz	oh
16:41	Jordach	john_minetest, :D
16:41	thexyz	plz add "someone thinks you should shut the fuck up"
16:41	Jordach	thexyz, later.
16:42	Jordach	okay, didn't make a piss up; good :D
16:42	thexyz	"someone thinks you should stop procrastinating"
16:42	Jordach	!proc
16:43	Jordach	[nick] *
16:43	Jordach	mmm, archlinux
16:43	thexyz	okay, how about instead you fix this mess and make the code look clean and nice?
16:43	* Jordach	fires up virtual box
16:44	sfan5	MinetestBot: reload shortutils
16:44	MinetestBot	sfan5: <module 'shortutils' from '/home/user/mtbot/modules/shortutils.py'> (version: 2013-10-23 16:44:03)
16:44	thexyz	I mean, every command includes this copypasta about "aa_hook"
16:44	sfan5	!git sfan5
16:44	MinetestBot	sfan5, someone thinks you need to brush up on or learn Git, please go to: http://git-scm.com/book/
16:44	sfan5	thexyz: I can't hook functions in any other way
16:44	thexyz	yeah sure whatever
16:44	Jordach	btw, i removed the caps in the second concat to make it look good
16:44	thexyz	!python sfan5
16:44	PilzAdam	!git
16:44	MinetestBot	AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'strip' (file "/home/user/mtbot/modules/shortutils.py", line 70, in git)
16:45	sfan5	derrrp
16:45	PilzAdam	Jordach bwoke it!
16:45	sfan5	PilzAdam: it's my fault
16:45	* Jordach	exhales
16:45	thexyz	also consider writing tests
16:45		Menche joined #minetest
16:46	PilzAdam	she obviously doesnt want to strip for you, sfan5
16:46	* Jordach	starts Arch Linux in VB
16:46	sfan5	haha
16:46	sfan5	s/haha/plol/
16:46	thexyz	that's how degradation looks
16:47	Jordach	MinetestBot, strip for us!
16:47	MinetestBot	No.
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16:52	thexyz	people finally started using attachments <3
16:53	Jordach	fuckin hell - i've nearly got arch going \o/
16:53	sapier	arch as in arch linux?
16:53	Jordach	yes sapier
16:54	Jordach	i'll probably build my minetest-classic with it
16:54	sapier	why "nearly"?
16:54	markveidemanis	5.81.157.109:30010 Finally running, this will be what gets moved to minetest.orh:30010
16:54	Jordach	sapier, started the install just now :)
16:54	sapier	ok :-)
16:54	markveidemanis	*minetest.org
16:54	sapier	you know using bleeding edge linux distro with outdated minetest is quite ironic ;-)
16:55	PilzAdam	*buntu 13.10 has 0.4.7 in the repos
16:55	Jordach	sapier, it's faster
16:56	sapier	anything new claims to be faster is it more than a subjective feeling or do you have prove?
16:57	Jordach	http://i.imgur.com/1lKXaAP.png soo good
16:58	sapier	btw if anyone knows a linux distri with multiple graphics card support as well as a REAL desktop I'm looking for one ;-)
16:58	sapier	I guess I'll stay at debian ;-P
16:59	sapier	great does anyone know whats last visual studio express working without registration?
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17:00	thexyz	well it's not like you can't google the key
17:01	nore	sfan5, add a "Please be patient" command, that can be useful too
17:01	sapier	that's not legal as far as I know ;-)
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17:02	thexyz	then register
17:03	thexyz	or use it for 30 days or whatever the limit is
17:04	sapier	considering ppl beeing so interested in free licensing it's quite interesting to support toolchains beeing that non free ;-)
17:05	thexyz	yeah well whatever
17:06	sapier	everyone trys to force you to use an account nowadays just to ensure you have to accept theit "sell your soul" user policys ;-)
17:08	sapier	didn't australians last year add a new color to weather forecast to show temperatures > 40Â° ?
17:09	kahrl	sapier: what I did when I used MSVC last time is ignored the GUI, just ran the compiler
17:09	kahrl	no stupid registration message that way
17:10	sapier	really? great I don't need the gui ... quite slow on vm either
17:10	kahrl	might have been changed since then but probably not
17:10	sapier	I'll have a try
17:10	Jordach	wat wat wat
17:11	Jordach	<Chrome> A download is currently in progress...
17:11	Jordach	> I have TWO WINDOWS OPEN.
17:12	sapier	chrome ... what do you expect of google integrated browser?
17:12	Jordach	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb2Ct3yyB4g
17:12	Jordach	wat
17:13	Jordach	it even complains when closing a single tab
17:13	sapier	you should be glad it doesn't tell "nsa upload in progress please open your door and don't try to get away"
17:13	Jordach	sapier, it's a debian iso - im planning on dual buildbots
17:13	Jordach	one for tinkering, one for building
17:13	sapier	it's stll chrome
17:13	sapier	I'm almost sure it's not part of debian
17:15	Jordach	i've made more minetestbot-modules commits than sfan5
17:15	sapier	any idea where to post mingw build instructions?
17:15	Jordach	on the internet
17:15	Jordach	;)
17:15	sapier	yea correct answer but quite useless ;-P
17:16	Jordach	pastebin, good quality forums post, instructions on the developer wiki
17:16	sapier	I'm not very common to our wiki do we have build instructiosn there?
17:18	* Jordach	suggests setting the default avatar size to 64px
17:18	thexyz	what's the point?
17:18	Jordach	60px is a strange number
17:19	Jordach	and people who use base2 sized images will benefit
17:19	sapier	lol binary guy ;-)
17:19	Jordach	(such as me, jojoa, that guy who made the useless mod) and others too
17:19	thexyz	how's it strange?
17:19	thexyz	i can agree that, say, 61 is weird or 67
17:19	Jordach	because i don't like losing a few useful pixels
17:20	sapier	I don't like too my new avatar will be 65 pixels so I demand size 65 ;-) just kidding
17:20	Jordach	and there is NO loss of speed
17:20	thexyz	and well, 1 pixel won't make a big difference so how about 66?
17:20	sapier	and there is NO obvious generic benefit
17:21	Jordach	sapier, i use a 8x8 Sam II face, it would just look better
17:21	thexyz	lol guys, this channel is so wrong
17:21	sapier	just because your avatar matches better thats no generic benefit ;-)
17:21	thexyz	you argue about every single fucking thing
17:21	Jordach	other people might want it too
17:21	sapier	make a voting
17:21	sapier	we don't argue we're just joking
17:22	sapier	I don't care if it's 60 64 or 700 I don't have an avatar either
17:22	thexyz	that's like making a change for the sake of making changes but whatever
17:22	thexyz	I personally don't like avatars
17:25	Jordach	thexyz, lemme go make a mock up of the BIGGEST possible avatar i can fit in
17:25	Jordach	(keeping the current image padding)
17:25	thexyz	the biggest possible one would be 60Ã—60 pixels
17:25	thexyz	I'm not following you
17:26	thexyz	kaeza: what's your problem with attachments? getting any error?
17:28	kaeza	thexyz, no error, nothing
17:28	kaeza	lemme try again
17:28	thexyz	did you press that "add file" button?
17:29	kaeza	oh I'm derping
17:29	Jordach	here's a 64px mock up (red box is to show you the effect) http://i.imgur.com/1sw0KHn.png
17:29	kaeza	note to self: next time click the big button
17:30	kaeza	well, not so big, but whatevs
17:30	* Jordach	staples a note to kaeza's forehead
17:30	thexyz	Jordach: aaaand what's your point?
17:30	Jordach	thexyz, would be good
17:30	Jordach	it just feels better
17:30	thexyz	also please next time just use black boxes
17:30	Jordach	i hate having non uniform ness
17:30	Jordach	thexyz, colourblind>
17:30	thexyz	instead of blurring the IPs
17:31	Jordach	i smudged actually
17:31		BlockMen joined #minetest
17:31	Jordach	hello BlockMen
17:31	BlockMen	hi Jordach
17:31	BlockMen	how doin?
17:32	Jordach	alright
17:33	* BlockMen	reminds Jordach the zombie :P
17:33	Jordach	i knew it
17:33		whirm joined #minetest
17:33	Jordach	but but but ragdoll fighting games
17:35	BlockMen	if you dont feel like doin it its fine
17:35	BlockMen	just thought you forgot again^^
17:36	Jordach	i've just been interested in an old game i used to play; managed a brown belt
17:37	BlockMen	havin a nostalgic periode?
17:38		markveidemanis joined #minetest
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17:41		monkeycoder joined #minetest
17:42	Jordach	yeah
17:48		Zeitgeist_ joined #minetest
17:48	kaeza	reposting here: http://www.wtfpl.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/wtfpl-strip.jpg
17:50		ImQ009_ joined #minetest
17:51	thexyz	too old
17:53		ImQ009 joined #minetest
18:03		sapier1 joined #minetest
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18:18	* Jordach	pokes VanessaE
18:19	* Jordach	pets MinetestBot
18:20	kaeza	TIL typing just 'l' in bash runs 'ls'
18:20	kaeza	or may be some weird script in ubuntu, dunno
18:20	Menche	lies
18:21	Menche	bashrc alias?
18:21	kaeza	could be
18:21		whirm joined #minetest
18:22	Jordach	kaeza, i just made more fixes for MinetestBot
18:22	kaeza	oh also 'w' â†’ some kind of 'ps'
18:23	kaeza	Jordach, seen that
18:23	Jordach	hehehe
18:24	VanessaE	hi
18:25	Jordach	i've out committed sfan5 on the MinetestBot repo
18:25	thexyz	http://www.slideshare.net/olvemaudal/deep-c
18:25		Pest joined #minetest
18:26	Calinou	kaeza: it's an alias
18:26	Jordach	> slideshare
18:26	Jordach	you should know better than that thexyz
18:26	kaeza	Calinou, I noticed
18:26	kaeza	alias ll='ls -alF'; alias la='ls -A'; alias l='ls -CF'
18:26	thexyz	i wat?
18:27	kaeza	you wat?
18:27	VanessaE	Calinou: fix your one-liner build thingy for non-portable installs. without a 'make install' step in there, minetest will not find its files.
18:27	VanessaE	(this thing: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3837 )
18:28	Calinou	you need to do make install now?
18:28	Calinou	you need to use sudo to use it...
18:28	Jordach	markveidemanis, feel free to talk for a bit
18:28	VanessaE	you always had to for non-portable.
18:29	Calinou	I use non-portable and don't have to use make install
18:29	VanessaE	minetest expects to find its stuff in /usr/ or so
18:29	Jordach	well that's /userful/ :>
18:30	VanessaE	I just helped someone through it this morning, [s]he used your non-portable one and it didn't work. I directed to use run-in-place instead, that worked.
18:30		Pest joined #minetest
18:30	thexyz	Calinou: you can make install to custom prefix
18:30	Calinou	would it work?
18:30	Calinou	<VanessaE> minetest expects to find its stuff in /usr/ or so
18:31	VanessaE	Calinou: without a custom prefix, it looks in /usr or /usr/local
18:31	VanessaE	(the latter seems more common)
18:32	Calinou	both need sudo to be installed on :/
18:32	germa	you help me
18:32	germa	:)
18:32	VanessaE	ah there [s]he is now :)
18:32	germa	he
18:32	VanessaE	he :)
18:32	germa	im Italian... Andrea is male name
18:32		dhbiker joined #minetest
18:32	germa	in italy
18:33	VanessaE	ah. That's exclusively a female name in the US
18:33	germa	help me very much
18:33	germa	no, exclusively male name in Italy... when i go out of italy i change my name :)
18:33	VanessaE	heh
18:34	VanessaE	anywho..
18:34	VanessaE	Calinou: it's busted. fix it. :)
18:34	Calinou	hi
18:35	Calinou	VanessaE: well, I still have the issue of needing sudo
18:35	Calinou	err, nevermind
18:35	Calinou	it's used already
18:35	VanessaE	what's wrong with sudo? that's the proper way to install a non-run-in-place build
18:36	germa	install on lubuntu 13.04?
18:36	sapier1	I'm not quite sure about that vanessae isn't sudo granting root privileges?
18:36	Calinou	I'm on xubuntu 13.04
18:37	VanessaE	sapier1: yes, and NON-run-in-place belongs in /usr, which is root-write-only
18:37	Calinou	if I just add make install after make -j2 will that work?
18:37	VanessaE	only if you set your install prefix to somewhere the user can write to.
18:37	sapier1	so we should fix the non run in place build so support running without root privileges which is quite silly
18:38	VanessaE	sapier1: you don't need root to run it.
18:38	VanessaE	only to install.
18:38		TheLastProject joined #minetest
18:38	VanessaE	this is the normal behavior of admin activities.
18:38	sapier1	ok missundestood thought you need sudo to run
18:38	Calinou	Minetest runs for me without run in place, and without make install
18:38	VanessaE	Calinou: what happens if you set the install prefix to the minetest folder itself?
18:38	Calinou	that's what surprises me
18:38	Calinou	how do you do that? :P
18:39	VanessaE	-DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX:PATH=xxxxxxx
18:39	Menche	I'll check, but I thought that a non-run-in-place build worked fine from the build directory.
18:39	markveidemanis	HELLO!
18:39	VanessaE	germa's attempt did not work... and that ain't the first time I've had to help someone fix that :)
18:40	markveidemanis	5.81.157.109:30010 its still up
18:40	Calinou	so . will do as install prefix?
18:40	VanessaE	you probably need to do -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX:PATH=`pwd`
18:40	VanessaE	I expect it'll want a full path
18:41	germa	yes... becouse the script haven't DRUN_IN_PLACE but maybe is different situation ahah i don't understand nothing of computers
18:41	Calinou	isn't `pwd` depreacted and instead I should use $(pwd)?
18:41	VanessaE	yes, `` is, but I've been using it for years :)
18:41	VanessaE	I doubt it'll ever be fully disabled.
18:42	VanessaE	either way will do
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18:43	Menche	i compiled it with RUN_IN_PLACE=0 and it works fine.
18:44	Menche	I uninstalled the globally installed version I had
18:44	VanessaE	maybe it's a matter of never specifying RUN_IN_PLACE at all (assume it's 0)? That's what cal's script does
18:45	VanessaE	idk enough about the build scripts to be sure what happens in that case.
18:53	VanessaE	bbl
19:02	Menche	having trouble making a linux package
19:03	Menche	"make package" is basically like "make install" with the archive as the prefix
19:03	Menche	the produced binary can't find anything
19:05	sapier1	why do you even eant to install minetest yourself? most time this messes up your distros package management?
19:05	Menche	i'm trying to make a run-in-place package, like the win32 builds
19:06	Menche	"make package" makes a .zip or .tar.gz archive of a run-in-place build
19:06	sapier1	and what's wrong? just build and copy to those places where they are in windows?
19:06	Menche	It'd be better if "make package" would produce a working build
19:06	sapier1	zip on linux would be a little bit strange ;-)
19:07	Menche	it uses .zip for win32 builds and .tar.gz for linux ones
19:07	sapier1	I haven't tried by now but I don't expect issues if your "make package" target just copies the required things
19:07		dvere joined #minetest
19:08	sapier1	wait ... a binary build distibuted on linux wont work on other os either as the librarys most likely wont match
19:08	sapier1	other os meaning debian <-> arch <-> suse <-> redhat
19:08	thexyz	LSB
19:08	Menche	if i can get it to work right, the correct libraries will be bundled with the build.
19:09	sapier1	lsb won't help with abi compatibility
19:09	Menche	it's just an archived run-in-place build like the official win32 ones, but for linux.
19:10	sapier1	win32 usually contains almost all required libraries on linux most libraries are provided by distribution
19:10	thexyz	lsb won't?
19:10	thexyz	it's like what it's designed for
19:10	sapier1	I don't think so doesn't lsb only specify locations where to find what?
19:11	thexyz	well it's hard to google those days >The LSB is designed to be binary-compatible and produce a stable application binary interface (ABI) for independent software vendors.
19:12	sapier1	ok wrong it's really about abi ... still do we use only lsb libraries?
19:12	thexyz	no of course not
19:12	thexyz	can't we bundle them?
19:12	thexyz	or compile statically
19:12	thexyz	wait, I don't get the point of having universal linux binary builds
19:13	thexyz	better set up https://build.opensuse.org/ and get packages for all modern popular distros
19:13	sapier1	me too we'd loose one of linux main features ... bugs are fixed once for all applications ... btw it's crazy on windows to have e.g. 10 qt implementations used by 15 applications ... randomly chosen which one by current system/run path
19:16	thexyz	suse, arch, debian, fedora, redhat, ubuntu, centos
19:16	thexyz	supports many distro versions too
19:16	thexyz	we should just find someone familiar with it
19:17		_Menche_ joined #minetest
19:18	PilzAdam	bye
19:18	markveidemanis	PilzAdam used to be nice! https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=63178#p63178
19:18	markveidemanis	shit missed it :P
19:20		Evergreen joined #minetest
19:23	Jordach	hey Evergreen
19:24	Jordach	yes
19:24	Jordach	also: /back
19:24	Menche	my silly ISP doesn't though :(
19:24	Menche	at least, they didn't give me an IPv6 address
19:26	Evergreen	Jordach, you have earned the achievement of being my personal welcoming committee
19:27	thexyz	markveidemanis: was it before he became a "developer" or after that?
19:28	markveidemanis	idk
19:28	markveidemanis	ipv6?
19:29		Calinou joined #minetest
19:35	sapier1	windows build using vs seems to be way more common than mingw build :-)
19:38	germa	mmm how i play multiplayer? i create server in minetest and give the ip?
19:43	kaeza	germa, yes, or join a public server :)
19:43	kaeza	you need to forward ports if you want to host your own server
19:43	germa	thank you kaeza.. but public server are far
19:44	germa	open the ports?
19:44		roboman2444 joined #minetest
19:44	kaeza	yep
19:44	germa	i have alredy open a port... but must use 30000?
19:44	kaeza	it can use any port afaik
19:44	kaeza	(barring OS restrictions of course)
19:45	germa	i have lubuntu
19:45	kaeza	try starting a sever and give ip and port
19:46	germa	yes i try but nothing
19:46	sapier1	wasn't there a bug in server port handling ?
19:46	sapier1	the fix isn't merged by now
19:46	germa	we play usually mame and work good
19:47		Peacock joined #minetest
19:47	germa	but the list of public server is on the minetest main site?
19:48	kaeza	oh don't worry about it for now
19:48	kaeza	just give your IP and port to your friends
19:49	germa	ok don't work for now. maybe is him pc... becouse i try to connect a pubblic server and work
19:50		zat joined #minetest
19:50	Peacock	for private servers on the list (just saying): http://a.dryicons.com/images/icon_sets/stickers_icon_set/png/128x128/lock.png
19:50	sapier1	same as always if you're behind a router you need to configure it to host a multiplayer game
19:52	germa	ah ok... i try
19:52	germa	i look around the web for study this
19:58	germa	maybe i dont have the port UDP open
20:01		smoke_fumus joined #minetest
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20:35		OldCoder joined #minetest
20:37	sfan5	lol http://i.imgur.com/E1Q3ZQt.jpg
20:40		Wuzzy joined #minetest
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20:50	kaeza	such ponyes
20:50	kaeza	wow
20:57	Peacock	ponies? lol
20:59	VanessaE	hi
20:59	Peacock	query not recognized, please restate command
21:00	VanessaE	(insert random SQL SELECT and DROP commands here ;) )
21:00	kaeza	Bobby Tables?
21:01	Peacock	SELECT ALL FROM Sammiches WHERE ING INCLUDES 'Bacon"
21:01	VanessaE	mmmm
21:02	Peacock	not sure if includes is a keyword lol
21:02	Peacock	does lua include shit for playing with sql databases?
21:03	sapier1	no it doesn't
21:03	Peacock	should, give newbs something more to learn
21:04	Peacock	and might decrease dependence on text files and serialization
21:04	Peacock	i think in php you have 2 or 3 simple commands, connect, select db and query if i remember correctly
21:04	kaeza	Peacock, there's always external libs :)
21:04	kaeza	or FFI
21:05	Peacock	speaking of which, if i install different lua packages from synaptic, those libs are accessible from lua?
21:05	kaeza	yep
21:06	Peacock	hm wait
21:06	Peacock	plain lua is builtin with minetest, luajit is systemwide
21:06	kaeza	assuming they are installed in any dir in LUA_PATH
21:06	Peacock	do plain lua packages work with jit?
21:06	kaeza	should; jit is a drop-in replacement for 5.1/5.2
21:06	Peacock	let's assume the average user and I install from synaptic and have no clue where lua path is :P
21:07		sdzen joined #minetest
21:07	kaeza	lua -e 'print(package.path)'
21:07	Peacock	would synpatic place it in the right path on it's own?
21:08	sdzen	hey there minetesters
21:08	Peacock	(ive lost my taste for complicated since switching away from arch) :P
21:08	sdzen	what have I missed?
21:08	kaeza	I think so, you
21:08	kaeza	hey sdzen
21:08	kaeza	s/you/yes/
21:10	Peacock	sdzen, how is the conquest of Persia progressing?
21:10	sapier1	you could load that package yes ... obviously the sql backend is not for ppl that have security concerns
21:11	Peacock	lol security concerns, talking about connecting to localhost db's
21:11	sapier1	sql is not limited to localhost
21:11	sdzen	badly, I ran into a door.
21:12	Peacock	you can't block access and tools because people might do something bad with them, i could do alot of damage with a sledgehammer yet they still sell them
21:13	sapier1	so you recommend opening a root shell just because it's usefull sometimes? ;-)
21:13	Peacock	but if you give them the tools im pretty confident more good than bad will come out of it
21:13	Peacock	were talking about datbases, not this strawman you brought up :P
21:13	sapier1	we're talking about a way to connect to arbitrary databases ;-) not a sqlite db
21:14	sapier1	but don't get me wrong I'm not against it as long as ppl are aware of the potential risks
21:15	Peacock	well awareness and locking people out are two different things, i have no qualms about giving people the tools and making them aware of the risks :-)
21:16	Peacock	though the point of my suggestion is to enable kids to learn about databases, text files are so passe lol
21:16	VanessaE	Peacock: implement the VLIR format inside a text file. best of both worlds :D
21:17	sapier1	that's plain different from what others might want minetest to be ;-)
21:17	sapier1	if I understand you want a playground while others might want to run a stable server ;-)
21:17	Peacock	no point in implementing another format when serialization works just fine :P
21:17	Peacock	though databases are a useful skill to have to aspiring devs
21:18	Peacock	your premise is on the assumption some devs don't already take MT for a playground :P im just talking about options
21:18	Peacock	like most things, you wouldn't have to use dbs
21:19	Peacock	though for economic type mods, it would be useful
21:19	Peacock	my nodex-type market mod is one example :P
21:20	Peacock	(it tracked all the sales and purchases and adjusted the prices accordingly)
21:21	sapier1	if it's enabled by default and not configurable it's no difference if you want to use or not the potential risk is there ... if you can disable use of sql lua module nothing wrong
21:21	sapier1	but I guess if it's added once same thing is gonna happen as for curl
21:21	Peacock	well i didn't suggest enabling by default, who cares if it's on or off so long as you can turn it off or on
21:21	Peacock	not really familiar with the curl debate though :/
21:22	Peacock	in any case, im gonna try out installing some of those lua packages i see in the repos, and at least see if that works :-)
21:23	sapier1	there's no debate curl is slowly crawling into mt taking over network communications ... if you disable you already can't use lots of current features
21:25	Peacock	not really acquainted with network stuff - curl, udp, tcp, mostly acronyms to me :P
21:26	Peacock	(i started out with perl/php/python) lol
21:26	Peacock	a long time ago i wrote bots for really old games and thats the last time i touched on networking
21:26		stormchaser3000 joined #minetest
21:26	stormchaser3000	hi
21:28	stormchaser3000	how y adoin
21:29	sapier1	:-) networking in general isn't an issue ... curl is a good way to do it too as it's quite common and bugfixed very well.
21:31	stormchaser3000	wtf
21:31	sapier1	It's just the way curl was added ... it's doing online communications without asking ... "you can disable curl if you don't want this to happen" was explanation for doing it this way ;-)
21:31	stormchaser3000	i am playing minetest
21:31	Peacock	judging from the logs not too many people seem motivated to work on TCP connections for MT (i cant blame them lol)
21:31	stormchaser3000	clasccic
21:31	stormchaser3000	classic
21:31	sapier1	so actually this isn't a curl issue :)
21:32	stormchaser3000	and i get a wtaer source and my bucket destroyed from mining lava with a water source on top
21:34	Peacock	my wife has curl issues :P she's gone through two straighteners in a year XD
21:34		thegamilyfrog66 joined #minetest
21:35	BigWilly	Groooooooooooooooooog!
21:35	thegamilyfrog66	hey Khan, what's happening?
21:36	* thegamilyfrog66	will be released soonâ„¢
21:36	BigWilly	not much, the prime ministers' in trouble over the duffy thing, i suggested they invade Poland as a distraction and was banned from the national post, apart from that, not much :-) you?
21:36	thegamilyfrog66	really? you got banned from a comments section? I can't see it... hahaha
21:37	BigWilly	no biggie, its about as easy to get around as their paywall XD
21:37	thegamilyfrog66	not much - gotta head back to factory direct to return a refurbished wireless keyboard that didn't include a wireless receiver...
21:38	BigWilly	lol
21:38	BigWilly	thats like selling a car w/o the engine
21:38	thegamilyfrog66	way to go, guys
21:38		OldCoder joined #minetest
21:38	thegamilyfrog66	I know, annoying
21:38	BigWilly	its telekinetic :P
21:38	thegamilyfrog66	Hey OldCoder
21:39	BigWilly	someone reboot oldcoder, he's not responding :P
21:39	sapier1	I huess he's just firewalled
21:40	OldCoder	Hi
21:40	OldCoder	I am here
21:40	OldCoder	In a business meeting
21:40	OldCoder	Can't talk now
21:40	OldCoder	john_minetest, I will be free all half the day on Saturday and Sunday
21:40	sapier1	firewalled as I said
21:40	OldCoder	c u o/
21:40	OldCoder	No firewall
21:40	OldCoder	sapier1, Hi
21:40	OldCoder	g2g
21:40		OldCoder was kicked by ShadowBot: Message flood detected.
21:41	BigWilly	that wasn't very nice shadowbot
21:41	sapier1	I wouldn't have said anything if I was in a meeting ;-)
21:42	BigWilly	distraction is always nice, i always needed a few drinks before thpse big UPS meetings lol
21:42	sapier1	lol :-)
21:42	BigWilly	turns out one of the speakers did too XD
21:43	sapier1	shadowbot is a little bit tooo active isn't it?
21:43	BigWilly	shadowbot, i command you to bang minetestbot (it should go to sleep after)
21:43	sdzen	woah steinheim is still up....
21:43	sdzen	I havent been on that in some time
21:44	BigWilly	old servers are fun, like touring ancient ruins
21:44	sdzen	hopefully it isnt ruined though....
21:44	BigWilly	the best ancient ruins though are always found in parliament XD
21:44	sdzen	despite the fact that I havent built on it since the last map reset
21:45	BigWilly	i have to work on my prehistoric game, though the motivations' totally not there
21:46	BigWilly	wait, wife just got back from the liquor store, motivation restored XD
21:46	thegamilyfrog66	aka the depanneur
21:46	BigWilly	naw depanneur only sells beer and cheap wines
21:46	thegamilyfrog66	now you're talking
21:46	BigWilly	liquor store (SAQ) had a special on frangelico
21:47	* thegamilyfrog66	is all about the cheap beer
21:47	BigWilly	how much is beer around there?
21:47	thegamilyfrog66	too much?
21:47	BigWilly	i get a sixpack of unibrow (unibroue) for 8$ after taxes
21:47	thegamilyfrog66	that's pretty sweet, though it sounds like Bert's eyebrow
21:48	thegamilyfrog66	MONOBROW
21:48	BigWilly	http://www.donosborn.com/canada/canada195_Unibroue_beer.jpg
21:48	BigWilly	first one on the left my favorite
21:48	BigWilly	cant stand molson/labatt and fake imports
21:49	thegamilyfrog66	cool, I've had maudite before - pretty strong stuff
21:49	BigWilly	from what my sister tells me (she's been to europe and other places) heineken doesn't taste the same here as it does there
21:49	thegamilyfrog66	I usually buy whatever's cheap in the tall cans
21:49	thegamilyfrog66	at the bar, don't usually drink at home
21:49	BigWilly	yeah they have some pretty strong shit, though Blonde is 4.9% and doesn't have much of an aftertaste
21:49	thegamilyfrog66	though I like Stella, if I'm feeling fancy
21:50	thegamilyfrog66	right on
21:50	BigWilly	i tried ordering a stella, it surrendered before i could drink it though :(
21:50	thegamilyfrog66	"surrendered"?
21:50	BigWilly	french beer :P
21:51	BigWilly	oh its not french
21:51	BigWilly	its belgian lol
21:51	thegamilyfrog66	ahh, I get it now
21:52	BigWilly	well if you're feeling fancy, you go for microbrew rather than brand name beers
21:52	thegamilyfrog66	I haven't read any political pundit blogs today - has Duffy been thrown under the bus by con diehards yet?
21:52	BigWilly	a mike's frozen pizza might taste better and cost more than a mccain, but it's still frozen pizza :P
21:53	BigWilly	naw actually duffy's fighting back and making harpo look bad
21:53	BigWilly	this may be harpers' waterloo
21:53	ShadowNinja	BigWilly: Re: Lua SQL. I have used luasql.sqlite3 successfully.
21:54	BigWilly	shadow with luajit + a system package? if so, sweet :-)
21:54	thegamilyfrog66	I'm just wondering what the supporters/pundits are saying, since up until a couple days ago, they were like, stop picking on Duffy
21:54	BigWilly	depends which paper you read :P i read all of them
21:54	thegamilyfrog66	Okay, how about the sun?
21:54	BigWilly	and news from all over the world, i don't sleep much :P
21:54	ShadowNinja	BigWilly: IIRC I cloned it from git and compiled it manually, but sure, if your distro has it.
21:55	BigWilly	shadow that's encouraging, i'll definately give it a shot
21:55	BigWilly	grog: the toronto sun?
21:55	BigWilly	or sun news?
21:55	BigWilly	with ezra "youregonnalovemyballs" levant?
21:55	thegamilyfrog66	It's all the same, really
21:55	thegamilyfrog66	bahaha
21:55	ShadowNinja	I used it for a proof-of-concept Lua SQLite rolllback.
21:56	VanessaE	bbl
21:56	BigWilly	well no, toronto sun is totally left wing, sun news is totally right wing
21:56	BigWilly	dyou work with zat on that, or was it a seperate project?
21:57	zat	wat
21:57	BigWilly	though i have to give ezra points, he totally pwned david suzuki
21:57	BigWilly	david suzuki "people should consume less" ... guy homes several homes totally > 10 million in value lol
21:57	BigWilly	*owns several homes
21:58	BlockMen	gd night everyone
21:58		BlockMen left #minetest
21:59	BigWilly	shadow is there a d/l somewhere with install instructions i can reproduce?
22:00	ShadowNinja	BigWilly: https://github.com/LuaDist/luasql
22:01	BigWilly	Dled
22:03	BigWilly	hm, #960 not pulled yet :(
22:04	BigWilly	about #960, is there a param to disable/enable the sun/moon, i know it's disabled automatically, but example, for prehistoric game, i'd wanna set the sky a greenish tint while keeping the sun and moon
22:06	BigWilly	Ooo (toronto sun) "U.S. spies may have targeted Merkelâ€™s cellphone"
22:07	ShadowNinja	BigWilly: No, it disables the entire sky if you set it manually.
22:07	ShadowNinja	(/join #minetest-dev?)
22:07	BigWilly	shadow I guess a seperate set_sattelites() function would be better
22:07	BigWilly	im not much use in dev :P i can give ideas, not code
22:08	BigWilly	and i bet half the people wouldn't be happy to see me there :P lol
22:10	BigWilly	but i could comment on the pull, that would be better
22:33	zat	Meanwhile at Chuck Norris house: https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/996879_10201779504024719_1269485430_n.jpg
22:35	BigWilly	anyone seen the The Wall know if it's any good?
22:37	BigWilly	either that or Only God Forgives
22:39	BigWilly	brb
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23:07	* Peacock	orders hookers and blow
23:07	Peacock	should liven up the place
23:08		OldCoder joined #minetest
23:09	ShadowNinja	Peacock: No need for that.
23:09	Peacock	you already called for hookers?
23:09	OldCoder	ShadowNinja, Hi! Thanks for PM earlier. I understood what had happened; was simply in a meeting
23:11	ShadowNinja	Peacock: Keep the channel family-friendly.
23:11	Peacock	if there were anything going on, i would :P
23:13	Peacock	seems dead is the new normal around here lol
23:14		us\|0gb joined #minetest
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23:31	* Peacock	starts a bonfire
23:31	* us\|gb	brings kerosene
23:33		monkeycoder joined #minetest
23:33	Peacock	good idea :P we can burn the channel down, take the insurance money and start up again somewhere else XD
23:35	us\|pigb	Is this channel insured?
23:35	Peacock	probably not, you need valuables for the insurance company to take you seriously XD
23:35	us\|pigb	Hmm. Yeah, that makes sense.
23:36	Peacock	and this place has been about as active as the forums lately
23:36	Peacock	thank god for offtopic convos lol
23:37	us\|pigb	(By the way, the odd name changes are because of a different channel. It'd be nice to only change my name there, but I that takes more effort.)
23:37	Peacock	well IRC is ancient technology, before minetest i was surprised anyone still used it
23:37	Peacock	i guess it's still big in europe and other parts of the world lol
23:38	us\|pigb	I like IRC, I'm not sure what could possibly replace it. Old isn't necessarily outdated.
23:39	Peacock	well, last time i used IRC was over fifteen years ago, so yeah, seems ancient to me lol
23:39	us\|pigb	Maybe a couple of things could be cleaned up, but you can say that about the web too. Actually, the web is in major need of cleaning.
23:39	Peacock	around here people moved on to visual chat and IMs and groupware a long time ago
23:39	Peacock	cleaning? the web couldn't be more generic these days
23:40	Peacock	where you used to have fansites, you now have wikis
23:40	us\|pigb	Code-wise. HTML is a mess.
23:40	Peacock	HTML used to be simple before CSS and JS :P
23:40	us\|pigb	Visual chat is overrated. I haven't use IMs or groupware, but they might be okay.
23:40	Peacock	im old enough though to remember when VRML was hailed as the next big thing :P
23:41	us\|pigb	I would like a web without JavaScript better, but that's not even what I was talking about.
23:41	us\|pigb	I actually installed NoScript recently.
23:41	us\|pigb	It makes Google much less annoying.
23:42	Peacock	meh, it also makes most sites unusable unless you start whitelisting everything you wanna see, which defeats the purpose
23:43	us\|pigb	Even before I was done with JavaScript, I thought it was overused. Some people can't run JavaScript for one reason or another. There should always be a fallback.
23:43	Peacock	railing against google is also entertaining since i remember when geeks hailed it as the next best thing rather than the evil established companies, now google is the evil established company, which gives some insight into geek reasoning lol
23:44	Peacock	geeks will rail against anything that's too successful unless they're the ones running it lol
23:45	us\|pigb	I don't like the way Google uses or offers JavaScript, but I still think there's some good in them.
23:45	Peacock	even zuckerbergs' a hypocrite - doesn't believe in privacy, yet he bought up all the properties around his house so he could have some privacy lol
23:46	us\|pigb	I think Google does a lot of good in some areas.
23:46	us\|pigb	Just ... they aren't perfect.
23:46	Peacock	meh, geeks are good for technical things, but i dont put much stock in their political or social stances lol
23:46	us\|pigb	THanks ...
23:46	Peacock	well of course google isn't perfect, they need to earn profit, and you cant do that offering purely free services
23:47	us\|pigb	You can. But that's not even what I mean.
23:47	us\|pigb	I just want them to clean up their JavaScript and take out the annoying bits.
23:48	Peacock	well it's true :P there are very few renaissance men around, you can be good with social things, or technical things, or political things, but rarely all the same time, problem is people mistake strength in one area as strength in all areas.... thats how you get technocratic dictatorships lol
23:48	Peacock	communism though social policy could translate into a workable economic policy, look how that turned out
23:49	us\|pigb	Fair enough.
23:49	Peacock	conversely, capitalist plutocrats have no clue what to do about the disadvantaged
23:50	us\|pigb	Any extreme system is going to be a problem. You need to find a middle ground.
23:50	Peacock	extremism is the bane of our age lol
23:51	Peacock	centrism and balance is the way to go
23:54	Peacock	even though that gives boring politics lol
23:55	us\|pigb	Boring politics are a good thing. We can focus on other things.
23:55	Evergreen	^ true
23:57	Peacock	thats why i like proportional rep, it mostly leads to coalition governments
23:57	Peacock	compromise instead of idealism
23:57	Peacock	the average citizen has to compromise alot more than he gets to stick to his ideals in life lol
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