| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:15 |
khonkhortisan |
it looks odd that vines hanging from a tree would stop just at the surface of the water |
| 00:22 |
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| 00:24 |
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| 00:33 |
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| 00:33 |
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| 00:41 |
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| 00:57 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: carts is up-to-date, yes. |
| 00:57 |
VanessaE |
also, hi |
| 01:05 |
kaeza |
hey V |
| 01:11 |
VanessaE |
hey |
| 01:13 |
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ch98 joined #minetest |
| 01:13 |
PilzAdam |
bye |
| 01:25 |
kaeza |
http://dottech.org/113780/start-wandows-ngrmadly-image/ |
| 01:29 |
VanessaE |
kaeza: eek |
| 01:36 |
VanessaE |
Taoki|away: that fog coloring is looking good |
| 01:45 |
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| 02:14 |
khonkhortisan |
when the safe mode screen is corrupted... |
| 02:16 |
VanessaE |
...then you know you have a REAL problem :) |
| 02:17 |
khonkhortisan |
I just fell through the top of a vertical wire |
| 02:19 |
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blaaaaargh joined #minetest |
| 02:22 |
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roboman2444 joined #minetest |
| 02:25 |
MinetestBot |
GIT: kwolekr commited to minetest/minetest: Make generated water a shade darker to match up with older versions 9126823c7e 2013-06-28T19:22:44-07:00 http://git.io/PrDh6w |
| 02:29 |
|
STHGOM joined #minetest |
| 02:29 |
STHGOM |
quick question: is it possible to make a map with only one node? |
| 02:30 |
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arsdragonfly joined #minetest |
| 02:33 |
ShadowNinja |
STHGOM: Singlenode mapgen. |
| 02:36 |
VanessaE |
http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=97159#p97159 <--- since when is a question like this "off topic"? |
| 02:37 |
STHGOM |
me no no |
| 02:37 |
STHGOM |
*me no know |
| 02:43 |
STHGOM |
<ShadowNinja> STHGOM: Singlenode mapgen. <--- how do you do that? |
| 02:44 |
ShadowNinja |
STHGOM: There is a option in minetest.conf. |
| 02:46 |
kaeza |
mg_name = singlenode |
| 02:46 |
STHGOM |
there is only one minetest.conf right/ |
| 02:48 |
ShadowNinja |
By default, yes. |
| 02:48 |
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| 02:49 |
STHGOM |
ok i got it: now i can fall for eternity |
| 02:49 |
STHGOM |
:D |
| 02:53 |
MinetestBot |
GIT: kwolekr commited to minetest/minetest: Add Lua VoxelArea methods: contains, containsp, containsi 0003fc8215 2013-06-28T19:52:13-07:00 http://git.io/pdrWmw |
| 02:54 |
STHGOM |
http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6247 <-- do you chat "//pos1", "//pos2", and "//set default:dirt"? |
| 02:55 |
STHGOM |
nvm i got it |
| 02:55 |
STHGOM |
cya |
| 02:59 |
khonkhortisan |
*places travelnet |
| 02:59 |
khonkhortisan |
*attempts digging travelnet |
| 02:59 |
khonkhortisan |
"Error: Update failed! Resetting this box on the travelnet." |
| 03:00 |
khonkhortisan |
"This travelnet box has not been configured yet. Please set it up first to claim it. Afterwards you can remove it because you are then the owner." |
| 03:00 |
khonkhortisan |
*sets travelnet up as aoeu aoeu aoeu |
| 03:00 |
VanessaE |
sokomine: ^^^^^^^ |
| 03:00 |
khonkhortisan |
"Station 'aoeu' has been added to the network 'aoeu', which now consists of 1 station(s)." |
| 03:00 |
khonkhortisan |
*digs travelnet |
| 03:00 |
VanessaE |
that may be what the user on my server was running into earlier. |
| 03:00 |
khonkhortisan |
"Station 'aou' has been REMOVED from the network 'aoeu'." |
| 03:00 |
khonkhortisan |
*places travelnet |
| 03:01 |
khonkhortisan |
*attempts setting up travelnet as aoeu aoeu aoeu |
| 03:01 |
khonkhortisan |
"There is no tetwork named aoeu owned by aoeu. Aborting." |
| 03:01 |
khonkhortisan |
*repeat setting up as asdf |
| 03:01 |
khonkhortisan |
*dig travelnet |
| 03:01 |
khonkhortisan |
There are now two extraneous travelnets aoeu and asdf. |
| 03:02 |
khonkhortisan |
Just because I couldn't un-place a node. |
| 03:03 |
khonkhortisan |
oh, if I skip the owner, I can add it to a previous extraneous network. |
| 03:05 |
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ssieb joined #minetest |
| 03:07 |
sokomine |
yes, unconfigured travelnets are a bit problematic. configuring them and then digging helps |
| 03:07 |
sokomine |
oh? |
| 03:08 |
khonkhortisan |
but now that I've created and dug one with aoeu aoeu aoeu, I can't create another aoeu aoeu aoeu . |
| 03:08 |
sokomine |
hm. that sounds like a bug |
| 03:08 |
khonkhortisan |
ack! stuck in an elevator! |
| 03:08 |
sokomine |
vanessas server? |
| 03:08 |
khonkhortisan |
yes |
| 03:08 |
VanessaE |
khonkhortisan: right click and press the " < > " button. |
| 03:08 |
sokomine |
are the elevator doors closed? if so, klick on the open/close doors button |
| 03:09 |
khonkhortisan |
oh |
| 03:09 |
VanessaE |
sokomine: you might want to fix your labelling :) |
| 03:09 |
khonkhortisan |
so that's what that's for - I thought it was just a reference to the current location |
| 03:09 |
sokomine |
what's wrong with the labelling? |
| 03:09 |
VanessaE |
see above :P |
| 03:09 |
khonkhortisan |
Click on target to travel there: <> |
| 03:09 |
sokomine |
no, it is also for opening doors. i tried to stick to the real sign that one finds on such elevators |
| 03:10 |
khonkhortisan |
I don't want to click it because I'm already there |
| 03:10 |
sokomine |
oh. hm. if i name it open/close doors (as i had done first), there would be no space left for the station name |
| 03:10 |
VanessaE |
sokomine: move the open/close to a separate button and just leave the "current location" as showing the floor number or whatever |
| 03:10 |
VanessaE |
after all, it's not like a real elevator changes the current floor button into "open/close" ;) |
| 03:11 |
sokomine |
hmm. that might be an option. extra button sounds like a good idea |
| 03:11 |
sokomine |
:-) |
| 03:11 |
VanessaE |
you should try to model a real elevator keypad as closely as possible, visually, if you can |
| 03:12 |
VanessaE |
with nice round image buttons :) |
| 03:12 |
VanessaE |
anyway I'm out |
| 03:12 |
VanessaE |
too tired to stay on |
| 03:12 |
VanessaE |
night all |
| 03:12 |
sokomine |
hm, yes. in that case, it might need the numeric pad at the left and the labels at the right. i'm afraid that would be more confusing...there's only limited space |
| 03:12 |
kaeza |
night |
| 03:12 |
sokomine |
sleep well |
| 03:12 |
khonkhortisan |
hehe I have mesecon wire along the ceiling |
| 03:12 |
sokomine |
oh yes, hm, image buttons. with an emergency button :-) |
| 03:13 |
khonkhortisan |
hmm pistons rotate my wire |
| 03:17 |
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| 03:22 |
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ssieb joined #minetest |
| 03:26 |
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diemartin joined #minetest |
| 03:59 |
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Kacey joined #minetest |
| 04:00 |
Kacey |
hi guys i'm back |
| 04:04 |
ShadowNinja |
thexyz: xpanes/fences have issues with being placed near unknown nodes... |
| 04:15 |
khonkhortisan |
Many mods have trouble with that. We (Uberi) just fixed a bunch of that in mesecons |
| 04:21 |
|
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| 04:26 |
Kacey |
anyone alive? |
| 04:26 |
ShadowNinja |
Nope. ;-) |
| 04:29 |
Kacey |
well then... BRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 04:30 |
Kacey |
ooh ShadowNinja, the farm was totally emoty when i checked on it |
| 04:31 |
ShadowNinja |
:-( |
| 04:31 |
Kacey |
empty* |
| 04:31 |
Kacey |
but ooh well |
| 04:45 |
* Kacey |
is going to finish skrim 100% by the end of the summer |
| 04:46 |
Kacey |
i must go |
| 05:00 |
|
reactor joined #minetest |
| 05:00 |
reactor |
.yeH |
| 05:01 |
ShadowNinja |
reactor: ? |
| 05:01 |
reactor |
ShadowNinja: ? |
| 05:02 |
ShadowNinja |
<reactor> .yeH |
| 05:02 |
ShadowNinja |
Hmmm. |
| 05:03 |
ShadowNinja |
!rev .yeH |
| 05:03 |
MinetestBot |
Hey. |
| 05:03 |
reactor |
Oh god. |
| 05:03 |
reactor |
Rather "eh, gerd". |
| 05:14 |
reactor |
ShadowNinja: congratulations. It took you 65535 seconds to guess what it is. |
| 05:15 |
reactor |
I would not rather draw conclusions from your testing. |
| 05:15 |
ShadowNinja |
reactor: Wha? |
| 05:15 |
reactor |
^ |
| 05:17 |
ShadowNinja |
reactor: What do you mean? ".yeH" -> "Hey."? |
| 05:18 |
reactor |
.haey oH |
| 05:18 |
reactor |
s/oH/hO/ |
| 05:18 |
diemartin |
fail |
| 05:18 |
diemartin |
trolling is a art. you fail at it |
| 05:20 |
reactor |
I am not trolling. |
| 05:21 |
reactor |
I'm merely saying what is appropriate according to this flowchart. |
| 05:43 |
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| 05:43 |
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| 06:13 |
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| 06:16 |
diemartin |
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/Captura%20de%20pantalla%20de%202013-06-29%2003%3A08%3A41.jpg |
| 06:20 |
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| 06:40 |
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| 06:50 |
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| 06:51 |
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| 06:52 |
reactor |
разуплотнÑÑ |
| 07:02 |
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| 07:02 |
VanessaE |
there. that takes care of that issue. |
| 07:15 |
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| 08:19 |
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| 08:22 |
VanessaE |
bbl |
| 08:42 |
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| 09:02 |
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| 10:25 |
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| 10:58 |
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| 10:58 |
PilzAdam |
Hello everyone! |
| 11:01 |
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| 11:04 |
Jordach |
nearly done with my damn model |
| 11:05 |
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| 11:08 |
iqualfragile |
hi PilzAdam |
| 11:13 |
* Jordach |
hates rendering blender films |
| 11:13 |
Jordach |
80 frames = 3 mijs |
| 11:13 |
Jordach |
mins* |
| 11:14 |
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| 11:16 |
* Jordach |
pokes Taoki |
| 11:18 |
Jordach |
(fucking blender, it rendered .ogv as .ogg) |
| 11:18 |
Jordach |
http://www.mediafire.com/download/onja219yosovvll/0000-0250.ogg |
| 11:18 |
Jordach |
^ MK2 model |
| 11:20 |
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| 11:25 |
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| 11:25 |
Exio |
Jordach: what cpu&gpu? |
| 11:27 |
Jordach |
Intel Pentium 4 + nVidia GeForce 6200 AGP 8x @ 1gb |
| 11:29 |
Exio |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blender_%28software%29#Hardware_requirements |
| 11:29 |
Exio |
and 2gb of ram? |
| 11:30 |
Exio |
the cpu kills you :P |
| 11:35 |
Taoki |
Jordach: Looks good |
| 11:35 |
Jordach |
Taoki, i have learned more about blender |
| 11:36 |
Jordach |
now the realtest(TM) is camera tracking |
| 11:36 |
jin_xi |
anyone into dwarf fortress? nice interview here http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131954/interview_the_making_of_dwarf_.php?print=1 |
| 11:38 |
Jordach |
Taoki, you dont need lights in blender 2.67b |
| 11:38 |
Jordach |
the materials tab has something called "shadeless" which removes all lighing and makes the model appear lit without lights |
| 11:45 |
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| 11:52 |
Taoki |
sure, that fcan work to make a material unaffacted by lighting (if you ever need to in some circumstances) |
| 11:52 |
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| 11:59 |
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| 12:02 |
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| 12:06 |
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| 12:13 |
kaeza |
mornings |
| 12:16 |
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| 12:45 |
Zeg9 |
Sorry |
| 12:54 |
kaeza |
now this is weird https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/screenshot_2415702667.jpg |
| 12:55 |
kaeza |
up close: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/screenshot_2415779420.jpg |
| 12:56 |
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| 12:57 |
arsdragonfly1 |
hello everyone |
| 12:57 |
kaeza |
hi |
| 12:57 |
arsdragonfly1 |
I'm writing a mod about an advanced market that works like stock markets in real life |
| 12:58 |
kaeza |
nice |
| 12:58 |
arsdragonfly1 |
thus there's no need to go to a shopping center & look for something everywhere |
| 12:58 |
arsdragonfly1 |
now I need your opinion : do you prefer CLI or GUI? |
| 12:59 |
arsdragonfly1 |
or both? |
| 13:00 |
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| 13:00 |
kaeza |
either one is fine |
| 13:00 |
kaeza |
hey Zeg9 |
| 13:00 |
Zeg9 |
Hello! |
| 13:01 |
arsdragonfly1 |
hi |
| 13:01 |
kaeza |
Zeg9, your UFOs have landed in my world |
| 13:01 |
kaeza |
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/screenshot_2415702667.jpg |
| 13:02 |
kaeza |
the aliens are making strange shapes in the sky |
| 13:02 |
Zeg9 |
:o |
| 13:02 |
Zeg9 |
what node is it? |
| 13:03 |
Zeg9 |
is it a dungeon? |
| 13:03 |
kaeza |
looks like a dungeon |
| 13:03 |
kaeza |
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/screenshot_2415779420.jpg |
| 13:04 |
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| 13:07 |
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| 13:09 |
STHGOM |
hi |
| 13:11 |
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| 13:12 |
STHGOM |
i need to change the sky texture on a certain world, how would i do that |
| 13:14 |
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| 13:14 |
STHGOM |
hmm... |
| 13:15 |
STHGOM |
i am making a space map with the singlenode mapgen... |
| 13:15 |
STHGOM |
even though i just set the time to /time 8000 its still dark |
| 13:16 |
STHGOM |
maybe i dont need a different texture for the sky :D |
| 13:27 |
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| 13:34 |
Zeg9 |
STHGOM, RealBadAngel was working on skydomes for minetest, maybe try his branch |
| 13:35 |
STHGOM |
i dont need it anymore but thank you |
| 13:35 |
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| 13:37 |
STHGOM |
hehheh i found a nayan cat... |
| 13:37 |
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| 13:50 |
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| 13:50 |
lamefun |
hello |
| 13:51 |
PenguinDad |
Hi! |
| 14:00 |
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| 14:05 |
PilzAdam |
new win build: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4547 |
| 14:07 |
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| 14:08 |
PenguinDad |
My friend likes your builds, but in the future he gets a Linux-notebook. |
| 14:10 |
Exio |
if compiling stuff in windows was easier... |
| 14:10 |
Exio |
:P |
| 14:11 |
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| 14:15 |
STHGOM |
bye |
| 14:18 |
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| 14:25 |
Exio |
aw damn |
| 14:26 |
PilzAdam |
*Adam |
| 14:27 |
Kacey |
hi all |
| 14:27 |
Exio |
PilzAdam: lol? |
| 14:28 |
Exio |
i said damn because if i implement the paste-support, then i'll need to rebase the cleanup that i did in https://github.com/EXio4/minetest/commit/648a6fce1bb609d35f92da7fdd4576ef191ce563 + "cleanup" the code i'm doing now :P |
| 14:29 |
Exio |
(and my rebase skills are zero) |
| 14:31 |
PilzAdam |
Exio, you learn how to rebase if you are a core deb |
| 14:31 |
PilzAdam |
or, you have to learn it (except RBA) |
| 14:31 |
Exio |
haha |
| 14:31 |
Exio |
lazyness :P |
| 14:32 |
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| 14:32 |
Exio |
and i'm not a core dev! |
| 14:34 |
* Kacey |
gets lost in the source code for minetest |
| 14:34 |
Exio |
haha |
| 14:34 |
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| 14:57 |
arsdragonfly1 |
finished the kernel part of mod; going to sleep now |
| 15:07 |
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| 17:53 |
Calinou |
\o/ |
| 17:53 |
VanessaE |
hiall |
| 17:53 |
Calinou |
hi |
| 17:58 |
Lyrositor |
Hello. |
| 18:00 |
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| 18:03 |
VanessaE |
Taoki: got any screenshots of your latest tweaks? |
| 18:03 |
Taoki |
Not any new ones |
| 18:03 |
VanessaE |
john_minetest: at ground level? |
| 18:04 |
VanessaE |
gimme a sec |
| 18:05 |
VanessaE |
now if I can remember where the hell the roller coaster IS :) |
| 18:05 |
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| 18:09 |
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| 18:09 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: are you aware that shift-clicking a cart generally just deletes the cart instead of picking it up? |
| 18:11 |
PilzAdam |
VanessaE, if creative_mode = 1 then it checks if the inventory has a cart |
| 18:11 |
VanessaE |
this isn't sufficient, you need to check for infinite stacks also |
| 18:11 |
PilzAdam |
generally all my mods expect endless items in inventory if creative_mode=1 |
| 18:11 |
PilzAdam |
since thats what default does |
| 18:12 |
PilzAdam |
why do you even set that flag on your server? |
| 18:12 |
VanessaE |
because UI uses it to decide whether certain features work |
| 18:16 |
Exio |
what is infinite stacks? |
| 18:16 |
PilzAdam |
"you need to check for infinite stacks also" how would I do that in a non hacky way? |
| 18:16 |
Exio |
i mean, isn't that what the creative mode does? |
| 18:16 |
PilzAdam |
Exio, yes, thats what normal creative mode does |
| 18:16 |
VanessaE |
the only way I know to do it is to directly check for the existence of UI and any other mods that change the default creative-mode stack size. |
| 18:17 |
VanessaE |
there's a small (3 or 4 line) function in homedecor that does it, for example. |
| 18:17 |
VanessaE |
ok |
| 18:19 |
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| 18:21 |
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| 18:26 |
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| 18:37 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: has the method to get into a minecart changed recently? |
| 18:38 |
PilzAdam |
no |
| 18:39 |
VanessaE |
having some glitchyness. |
| 18:40 |
VanessaE |
right-click doesn't put me into the cart if it's moving, it seems. |
| 18:40 |
VanessaE |
or if it does, I'm not being transported along with it. |
| 18:41 |
VanessaE |
in fact I think that's exactly it. as soon as I try to get into a cart, I can no longer dig, build, place carts, nothin', and /spawn doesn't teleport me (even though it says it does) |
| 18:42 |
VanessaE |
I have to restart my client to get clear of it. |
| 18:43 |
VanessaE |
yep that's exactly it. |
| 18:44 |
VanessaE |
if I place a cart and right click, nothing happens. if I then shift-click to delete the cart, the cart is deleted and I'm teleported to where the cart was and "dropped" onto the track. |
| 18:44 |
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| 18:45 |
PilzAdam |
I cant reproduce this |
| 18:46 |
PilzAdam |
maybe your client is broken |
| 18:46 |
VanessaE |
go to my server then. |
| 18:46 |
PilzAdam |
my internet connection sucks lately |
| 18:46 |
PilzAdam |
no chance to play on your server |
| 18:46 |
VanessaE |
try anyway |
| 18:47 |
Exio |
:D |
| 18:47 |
Exio |
got the nick "hacker" |
| 18:47 |
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| 18:47 |
STHGOM |
hi |
| 18:49 |
STHGOM |
how does technic's "forcefield generator work?" |
| 18:50 |
STHGOM |
*how does technic's"forcefield gererator" work |
| 18:53 |
VanessaE |
STHGOM: I think it needs MV or HV wire+power and it needs a mesecon signal to enable it |
| 18:55 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: from where I'm standing, you've only walked around a few meters from where that cart was placed, sometimes looking like you're "running", but never having actually rode the cart. |
| 18:55 |
PilzAdam |
Im rightclicking the cart like crazy, but it seems the server connection is too slow |
| 18:55 |
VanessaE |
nope.avi |
| 18:56 |
VanessaE |
if even I can't do it with a client on the same hardware as the server, it's busted. :P |
| 18:57 |
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| 19:00 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: as you can see, the lag is low enough for you to do routine build/dig operations :) |
| 19:00 |
PilzAdam |
"low enough" = wait 1 minute after the server responds? |
| 19:00 |
VanessaE |
I'm watching where I stand and you're moving around all over the place, placing carts like mad |
| 19:01 |
VanessaE |
or you were anyway |
| 19:01 |
PilzAdam |
2 of the placed carts appeared in my client |
| 19:01 |
PilzAdam |
the others are still missing |
| 19:01 |
PilzAdam |
now they all appeared at once |
| 19:02 |
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| 19:02 |
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| 19:03 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: return the damn CTCP please. |
| 19:04 |
PilzAdam |
hehe |
| 19:08 |
PilzAdam |
VanessaE, can you reproduce it anywhere else than your server? |
| 19:09 |
VanessaE |
lemme try it in single player |
| 19:10 |
VanessaE |
doesn't happen there. |
| 19:10 |
VanessaE |
(same game mode, but I did just update to latest mintest git, lemme restart the server) |
| 19:11 |
VanessaE |
ok, it works on the server now. |
| 19:11 |
VanessaE |
I must have been behind by a commit or two or something. |
| 19:12 |
STHGOM |
crud |
| 19:12 |
VanessaE |
you still need to fix the carts' stacking :P |
| 19:12 |
PilzAdam |
you need to fix UI |
| 19:12 |
VanessaE |
UI works as intended |
| 19:12 |
PilzAdam |
carts too |
| 19:12 |
VanessaE |
you're abusing the creative-mode flag. |
| 19:13 |
VanessaE |
it says "creative mode", not "infinite stacks mode". |
| 19:13 |
Exio |
what does creative mode means |
| 19:13 |
PilzAdam |
then write "Not compatible with any mods by PilzAdam because I want to change the default behaviour of the creative mode" in the UI topic |
| 19:13 |
VanessaE |
I didn't write UI anyway, RBA did. |
| 19:13 |
Exio |
for me creative = infinite resources |
| 19:13 |
PilzAdam |
that explains a lot.... |
| 19:14 |
PilzAdam |
Exio, the creative mode flag is defined how default uses it |
| 19:14 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: it takes like 4 lines of code to check if a stack is infinite, jeez |
| 19:14 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: yeah and default has redefined that at least once or twice already |
| 19:14 |
PilzAdam |
it requires 4 hacky and not generic ways |
| 19:15 |
PilzAdam |
I dont want to add 4 lines for each mod that exists out there |
| 19:15 |
VanessaE |
surely you remember when default creative had a stack size of 49 |
| 19:15 |
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| 19:15 |
PilzAdam |
yes, I changed it because it was stupid |
| 19:15 |
Exio |
PilzAdam: i know |
| 19:16 |
VanessaE |
49 was stupid, but when you changed it to infinite stacks you broke EVERY mod out there that has to do some kind of on-place detection. |
| 19:16 |
Exio |
what is wrong with breaking stuff for making stuff better? |
| 19:17 |
VanessaE |
Exio: because if you break enough stuff in the process, your "better" idea ceases to be better. |
| 19:17 |
PilzAdam |
VanessaE, there was no promise that item removal is an indicator of placement |
| 19:17 |
STHGOM |
who has ever used the sonic screw driver to open steel doors? :D |
| 19:17 |
Exio |
VanessaE: what do you suggest? keeping, still, the 49 blocks in the default game? |
| 19:17 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: then you need to add a flag to the engine/game/whatever that is distinct from creative mode that says whether or not infinite stacks are present. |
| 19:18 |
hmmmm |
he doesn't need to do anything if it wasn't stated in the documentation |
| 19:18 |
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| 19:18 |
VanessaE |
Exio: I suggested initially that he just fix his busted code. |
| 19:18 |
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| 19:18 |
PilzAdam |
VanessaE, no, I dont _need_ to do it |
| 19:18 |
Exio |
VanessaE: what does creative mode mean then |
| 19:18 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: then how, pray tell, is a modder supposed to determine if an item should be taken from the stack (or added to it)? |
| 19:19 |
VanessaE |
what non-hacky way, to use PilzAdam's terms, is provided for that purpose? |
| 19:19 |
PilzAdam |
<VanessaE> hmmmm: then how, pray tell, is a modder supposed to determine if an item should be taken from the stack (or added to it)? <- by checking the creative_mode flag |
| 19:19 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: weren't you paying attention? that's not sufficient. |
| 19:19 |
PilzAdam |
thats what the flag is intended to do |
| 19:20 |
Exio |
VanessaE: what would creative_mode mean? |
| 19:20 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: creative mode is NOT supposed to imply infinite stacks in a player's main inventory - it's supposed to imply infinitely available materials in the sidebar. |
| 19:20 |
Exio |
creative_mode |
| 19:20 |
PilzAdam |
VanessaE, see 0.3, its infinite stacks there too |
| 19:20 |
PilzAdam |
your definition of it is wrong |
| 19:21 |
VanessaE |
if my definition is wrong, then answer my question. |
| 19:21 |
VanessaE |
how, pray tell, is a modder supposed to determine if an item should be taken from the stack (or added to it)? |
| 19:21 |
PilzAdam |
by checking the creative_mode flag |
| 19:21 |
VanessaE |
nowhere in there ^^^ did I say "if the server is in creative mode". |
| 19:23 |
VanessaE |
so basically, a finite-stacks creative mode is hereby declared impossible and invalid then? |
| 19:23 |
Exio |
rm -rf creative and use your own? |
| 19:23 |
PilzAdam |
not impossible |
| 19:24 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: then how should a mod check for an infinite stack as distinct from having a creative-mode inventory? |
| 19:24 |
PilzAdam |
you could, e.g. use your own "creative" flag |
| 19:24 |
Exio |
i don't get it |
| 19:24 |
PilzAdam |
that is different from creative_mode |
| 19:25 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: "my own" flag would, by definition, be non-standard. |
| 19:25 |
PilzAdam |
yes |
| 19:25 |
VanessaE |
I'm asking for a standard way to check for that. |
| 19:25 |
jin_xi |
if the stack is infinite, why should joe the modder care if its taken from or added to? |
| 19:26 |
PilzAdam |
VanessaE, there is no standard way to get finite stacks in creative_mode, thus there will be no standard flag for that |
| 19:26 |
Exio |
how do you do a "if X && Y" in lua? |
| 19:27 |
VanessaE |
jin_xi: because the stack might be *finite* in which case mods that have to detect placement/clicks/etc have to manage adding/removing from the inventory. |
| 19:27 |
PilzAdam |
Exio, if x and y then |
| 19:27 |
Exio |
k |
| 19:28 |
PilzAdam |
Exio, the c++ standard says that "and" is valid too, but MSVC doesnt like it |
| 19:28 |
Exio |
i don't know C++ |
| 19:28 |
Exio |
i only know C :P |
| 19:29 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: so you still have not answered my question adequately. If there is no standard way to detect an infinite stack, then how exactly is a mod supposed to provide a finite stack in creative mode in a way that other mods can reliably detect? |
| 19:29 |
Exio |
VanessaE: why would a mod provide a finite stack, in creative_mode? |
| 19:30 |
PilzAdam |
VanessaE, there is none |
| 19:30 |
PilzAdam |
because it doesnt really make sense |
| 19:30 |
svuorela |
isn't 'and' and 'or' c99 ? |
| 19:30 |
VanessaE |
Exio: because that's how UI does it, and I've gotten used to the idea? |
| 19:30 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: it doesn't make sense *to you* maybe. |
| 19:31 |
svuorela |
btw, I has seen on the intertube that some people play 'skyblock' games or 'lonely island' games in that other non-free but similar game. is there any way to do that easily in minetest ? |
| 19:31 |
VanessaE |
svuorela: there is a game mode for that for minetest. |
| 19:31 |
VanessaE |
it's called skyblock :P |
| 19:32 |
Exio |
svuorela: non-free but similar game? call it by its name! :P |
| 19:32 |
svuorela |
Exio: voldemort! :P |
| 19:32 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: then please just add a global flag into...somewhere... that declares stacks are infinite. |
| 19:32 |
svuorela |
VanessaE: oh. where are such gamemodes found ? |
| 19:32 |
VanessaE |
ONE LINE in some lua in builtin/ somewhere is all I ask |
| 19:32 |
Exio |
i'm pretty sure at least half of people here played or, at least saw videos about, MC :P |
| 19:33 |
Exio |
VanessaE: why builtin |
| 19:33 |
VanessaE |
svuorela: you have to check the forum for it, I'm not sure of the link |
| 19:33 |
Exio |
VanessaE: the infinite stacks are managed by the "creative" mod in default |
| 19:33 |
VanessaE |
Exio: because it would be available to everyone then, even those who don't use the default mod? |
| 19:33 |
VanessaE |
ok fine, add it to the creative mod, I don't care |
| 19:33 |
VanessaE |
just put it somewhere reasonable. |
| 19:34 |
svuorela |
VanessaE: ah. found its. thanks |
| 19:35 |
PilzAdam |
VanessaE, do you listen to me? that flag is there and its called creative_mode |
| 19:35 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: do you listen to ME!? that flag IS NOT SUFFICIENT. |
| 19:35 |
VanessaE |
you're trying to cram three possible states into a boolean |
| 19:36 |
Exio |
it is a visual basic boolean |
| 19:36 |
Exio |
:D |
| 19:36 |
VanessaE |
what - true/false/null? :) |
| 19:36 |
Calinou |
tralse |
| 19:36 |
Calinou |
-q66 |
| 19:37 |
STHGOM |
Zeg9: in your UFO mod you can recharge your UFO in the technic's tool workshop :D |
| 19:38 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: why do you have to be so G*d damn stubborn here? I'm asking for a one line change, placed anywhere that makes sense, that just sets a G*d damned global variable. |
| 19:39 |
Exio |
VanessaE: what about splitting the creative_mode config into creative_inventory and creative_infstacks |
| 19:39 |
Exio |
and that with anything that'll get added to creative |
| 19:40 |
Exio |
s/'ll/will/ |
| 19:40 |
VanessaE |
Exio: no. That's overcomplicated. All I'm asking for is a global variable I can look for. |
| 19:40 |
hdastwb |
Is there any way to make the "infinite stacks" infinite when used for crafting? I think that would be useful to test craft recipes and craft not-in-creative-mode stuff |
| 19:40 |
hdastwb |
Otherwise, the fixed stacks were very useful in that regard |
| 19:40 |
VanessaE |
no new code, no changes to the existing creative mod, nothing whatsoever except a global variable. |
| 19:40 |
VanessaE |
hdastwb: and THAT is precisely why I hate "infinite" stacks in creative mode, because crafting works like SHIT with that. |
| 19:41 |
Exio |
i always use /giveme |
| 19:41 |
VanessaE |
Exio: let me guess...to get a NON-INFINITE STACK? |
| 19:41 |
Exio |
/giveme block -1 |
| 19:42 |
Exio |
for getting more than one stack |
| 19:42 |
VanessaE |
same difference |
| 19:42 |
Exio |
maybe a way to duplicate items in the creative inv would be better |
| 19:42 |
VanessaE |
you get a numbered stack that you can use in places where the "infinite" stacks don't work. |
| 19:42 |
VanessaE |
Exio: UI has that - "refill" |
| 19:42 |
PilzAdam |
VanessaE, why cant you accept that infinite stacks are part of the default creative mode and fix UI accordingly? |
| 19:43 |
Exio |
but why would you need to craft something if you have the creative inv with all the blocks? :P |
| 19:43 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: because as I said before, I didn't write UI and because I don't give three shits about the default creative mode, which sucks ass |
| 19:43 |
Exio |
remove that creative default mod |
| 19:43 |
Exio |
and enjoy |
| 19:43 |
VanessaE |
Exio: UI uses the default creative mod for some functions I believe |
| 19:44 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: in the time you've spent arguing against the idea, you or anyone else could have already added the requested variable and committed it. |
| 19:44 |
PilzAdam |
and also in the same time someone can delete the minetest source on github |
| 19:44 |
VanessaE |
jesus H christ |
| 19:44 |
Exio |
or the earth could have exploded |
| 19:45 |
PilzAdam |
the "time" argument is not valid at all |
| 19:45 |
VanessaE |
*facepalm* |
| 19:45 |
VanessaE |
way to avoid the issue. |
| 19:45 |
Exio |
VanessaE: the only thing i see the UI doesn't do |
| 19:45 |
Exio |
is the hand-replacement |
| 19:45 |
VanessaE |
THIS IS WHY I don't bother to contribute to this game anymore. It's like getting a fucking root canal to even get a one-line change made anymore. |
| 19:46 |
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| 19:46 |
VanessaE |
it's YOUR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY. |
| 19:46 |
Exio |
VanessaE: does it have "creative" in the reqs? |
| 19:46 |
VanessaE |
this game is going to die if this shit doesn't stop. |
| 19:46 |
PilzAdam |
ok, lets step back and see what we have: |
| 19:46 |
Exio |
PilzAdam: revert infinite stacks |
| 19:46 |
VanessaE |
Exio: it depends on default creative I think, but as I said I did not write it so I don't know exactly how it works. |
| 19:46 |
PilzAdam |
we have the UI mod vs. carts mod, simple mobs, minetest_game and minetest 0.3 |
| 19:47 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: stop. |
| 19:47 |
VanessaE |
just stop. |
| 19:47 |
* PilzAdam |
stops |
| 19:47 |
Exio |
haha |
| 19:47 |
VanessaE |
I'm not asking for anyone to redefine anything. I'm not asking for anyone to code anything. I'm not asking for anyone to change anything whatsoever about the default game. |
| 19:48 |
VanessaE |
DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT!? |
| 19:49 |
VanessaE |
s/default game/default creative mode or game/ |
| 19:50 |
VanessaE |
no change whatsoever. Nothing. Zip. nada. Bupkis. I just want a variable that mods can reliably expect so that MY CODE CAN ADAPT (and consequently, UI) |
| 19:51 |
VanessaE |
whether you fix your busted-ass carts is up to you. |
| 19:51 |
VanessaE |
you guys keep wondering why people are leaving this game. THIS SHIT IS WHY. |
| 19:52 |
VanessaE |
it isn't the big changes that are the problem. "It's the little stuff" as we say here. |
| 19:54 |
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| 19:55 |
sokomine |
hm, yes, the little stuff unfortionately always is the problem. not only here |
| 19:55 |
sokomine |
hope you can sort out whatever the problem is |
| 19:55 |
sokomine |
(just looked into the channel) |
| 19:56 |
Exio |
the solution for the problem is rm -rf creative |
| 19:56 |
Exio |
and let use *other* creative mod |
| 19:56 |
VanessaE |
Exio: UI depends on default creative. |
| 19:58 |
thexyz |
uh oh, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L220 |
| 19:59 |
VanessaE |
thexyz: that only applies to the default creative mod and you evidently didn't read the entire argument here. |
| 19:59 |
thexyz |
it says >unlimited inventory |
| 20:00 |
thexyz |
which probably means "infinite stacks mode" |
| 20:00 |
thexyz |
it says that not in default creative mod but in main minetest.conf example file |
| 20:00 |
VanessaE |
thexyz: which is precisely why I asked for a flag that's distinct and separate from that setting. Something mods can read from somewhere internal to the game. |
| 20:01 |
thexyz |
that said, we expect inventory to be unlimited when in creative mode |
| 20:01 |
VanessaE |
thexyz: in *default* creative mode yeah |
| 20:01 |
thexyz |
nope |
| 20:01 |
thexyz |
you can't read or something? |
| 20:01 |
Exio |
thexyz: i don't like the new diamond ore, make a setting for disabling it |
| 20:02 |
VanessaE |
I'm talking about making it possible for other mods to make a creative mode that doesn't use infinite stacks, the way Unified Inventory has been doing for months now. |
| 20:02 |
thexyz |
VanessaE: it's in game's (minetest, not minetest_game) default minetest.conf example file |
| 20:03 |
sokomine |
my replacer mod takes one block out of the inventory and gives the old one back - as long as it's not in creative. for most other mods i wrote/use, it does not make much difference weather it is creative or not. why/how is it a problem here? and how could it be fixed? |
| 20:03 |
VanessaE |
thexyz: I'm talking about for mods and games that are based on minetest_game |
| 20:03 |
thexyz |
VanessaE: okay, so you do accept the fact that this setting applies to everything and acts as described in documentation (conf file) |
| 20:03 |
hdastwb |
I feel like there should be some way to redefine the player's inventory to copy out items rather than moving them, thus making "infinite stacks" actually infinite. . . |
| 20:04 |
thexyz |
I mean, games/mods which depend on this setting should act as described in documentation (.conf file) |
| 20:04 |
VanessaE |
thexyz: I accept that it applies to the default creative mode mod, since that's what precipitated the need for that setting. |
| 20:05 |
sokomine |
i've seen somewhere (shadowninjas server?) that digging one node was enough and gave you an infinite supply, while on vanessas server, it seems to be a limited stack. both may have their usage. if a function could be helpful for that, why not add it to builtin or minetest_game or creative? (whatever is most appropriate) |
| 20:05 |
thexyz |
VanessaE: in the end, you don't accept that it in fact applies to each and every mod run by Minetest since it's documented in Minetest's default config file, am I right? |
| 20:06 |
VanessaE |
thexyz: I accept only that it applies to a mod that I'M TRYING TO REPLACE. |
| 20:06 |
thexyz |
so even though it's documented in each and every Minetest installation you want it to act differently for your purposes |
| 20:06 |
VanessaE |
(replace locally that is) |
| 20:06 |
hdastwb |
it's not really documented in the .conf file; all that says is "unlimited inventory" |
| 20:06 |
VanessaE |
but you're completely ignoring me again |
| 20:06 |
VanessaE |
so fuck it |
| 20:06 |
VanessaE |
I give up. |
| 20:07 |
sokomine |
:-( |
| 20:07 |
thexyz |
you're free to change its behavior but don't ask others to do the same |
| 20:07 |
VanessaE |
FUCK! |
| 20:07 |
VanessaE |
LEARN TO FUCKING READ |
| 20:07 |
VanessaE |
here, I'll repeat it again |
| 20:07 |
hdastwb |
what we have there is a normal inventory that doesn't lose items when they are placed but does when they are transferred into other inventories |
| 20:07 |
Exio |
VanessaE: tell RBA to remove the dependency from creative |
| 20:07 |
VanessaE |
I'm asking for no code changes whatsoever. Nothing. Zip. nada. Bupkis. I just want a variable that mods can reliably expect so that MY CODE CAN ADAPT (and consequently, UI) |
| 20:07 |
Exio |
and remove the default creative |
| 20:07 |
Exio |
and profit |
| 20:08 |
thexyz |
VanessaE: what variable do you want? |
| 20:08 |
thexyz |
what should it contain? |
| 20:08 |
Exio |
thexyz: a "infinite_stacks" variable in creative mode |
| 20:08 |
thexyz |
Exio: hm? but creative_mode already does that |
| 20:09 |
VanessaE |
thexyz: a global variable of the sort, "infinite_stacks = true" that a mod can later change if it wants to implement a different method, and which other mods can read from to determine if they should behave according to you guys or not. |
| 20:09 |
VanessaE |
but which DOESN'T AFFECT ANYTHING IN THE DEFAULT GAME. |
| 20:10 |
Exio |
thexyz: creative_mode only should mean the creative inventory, not the infinite stacks |
| 20:10 |
Exio |
(that is what VanessaE was saying) |
| 20:10 |
thexyz |
Exio: it's documented in .conf.example |
| 20:10 |
thexyz |
it says "Set to true to enable creative mode (unlimited inventory)" |
| 20:10 |
Exio |
thexyz: i just repeated VanessaE |
| 20:10 |
VanessaE |
thexyz: without a separate variable, it is impossible to check, in a non-hacky way to use PilzAdam's words, whether a stack is actually infinite in practice. |
| 20:11 |
sokomine |
hm. isn't the stack size (that normally seems to be 99) set somewhere? it could for infinite stacks be set to something else...like -1? |
| 20:11 |
VanessaE |
note the words "actually" and "in practice" |
| 20:11 |
sokomine |
maybe that variable (if it's available somewhere) could be useful |
| 20:12 |
thexyz |
VanessaE: the stack is infinite when creative_mode is true |
| 20:12 |
VanessaE |
thexyz: no, it isn't. |
| 20:12 |
Exio |
the stack_size is per node definition |
| 20:12 |
VanessaE |
some mods change that. |
| 20:13 |
thexyz |
VanessaE: those mods are wrong |
| 20:13 |
thexyz |
well, not wrong |
| 20:13 |
VanessaE |
thexyz: um, no. |
| 20:13 |
thexyz |
but they behave differently to how's described in minetest's .conf.example file |
| 20:13 |
VanessaE |
well of course they do |
| 20:13 |
thexyz |
then they should expect fun things to happen |
| 20:14 |
sokomine |
ah, ok. so the stack_size is only a...suggestion/default value for stacks that do not come with their own number |
| 20:14 |
VanessaE |
and they behave different because, maybe, the mod author (and his or her users) don't like how the mods they replace behave? |
| 20:15 |
VanessaE |
for example, in default creative, crafting is a pain in the ass because infinite stacks aren't truly infinite. Having to drag-and-drop an item from the list to the inventory gets cumbersome, and lack of some functions like crafting guide or trash-all just makes it harder to use. |
| 20:15 |
VanessaE |
THAT is why I use UI on my server. |
| 20:16 |
PilzAdam |
why do you want to craft things in creative mode? |
| 20:16 |
VanessaE |
and if there were some officially-sanctioned setting other mods can reasonably expect to find and maybe change, then other mods can adapt to the non-infinite-stacks behavior in UI, for example. |
| 20:17 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: because sometimes it's faster to craft something than to find it in the creative list. |
| 20:17 |
Exio |
maybe if you didn't have 4000 nodes it would be faster |
| 20:18 |
thexyz |
okay, so in the end, we need infinite stacks that are really infinite |
| 20:18 |
thexyz |
right? |
| 20:18 |
Calinou |
"65535 is enough for anybody" --RMS |
| 20:18 |
VanessaE |
Exio: faster in the sense that I can place items into the craft grid faster than I can page through the inventory items (I have 19 pages in UI, which would be about 30 or 40 in default) |
| 20:18 |
Calinou |
idea: if a stack has 65535 items, make it infinite.? |
| 20:18 |
VanessaE |
and testing a craft recipe for a new mod is VERY cumbersome with "infinite" stacks |
| 20:18 |
thexyz |
Calinou: yes, that's what I thought |
| 20:19 |
Calinou |
and show some kind of symbol to show it's infinite |
| 20:19 |
sokomine |
hm, yes, creative is unfortionately something that's still not very...convenient to use in mt. maybe that's because there are so many nodes to chooos from that it's sometimes easier to craft the damn things than to search for them. until we find a way of creative that works well for all, i'm afraid there need to be more experiments |
| 20:27 |
MinetestBot |
GIT: kwolekr commited to minetest/minetest: Update documentation for get_mapgen_object 21a4adcd27 2013-06-29T13:24:32-07:00 http://git.io/HyBpzQ |
| 20:27 |
VanessaE |
thexyz: truly infinite stacks as applied to adding items to the crafting grid for testing stuff would probably help some people but it won't solve the root problem - the variation in gameplay that comes from allowing non-infinite stacks in that mode, which I have now on my server and which I think makes it unique in that regard. |
| 20:28 |
thexyz |
VanessaE: so, you're allowing non-infinite stacks in a game mode which is supposed to only have infinite stacks |
| 20:28 |
thexyz |
well.. that's.. |
| 20:28 |
VanessaE |
thexyz: RBA is. I didn't write UI. |
| 20:28 |
VanessaE |
and I LIKE IT this way. |
| 20:28 |
thexyz |
then blame him |
| 20:28 |
thexyz |
uh |
| 20:28 |
thexyz |
well, since you like it |
| 20:29 |
sokomine |
crafting things in creative is definitely something one needs. it's much easier to create every-day-like-stuff that way instead of searching through creative |
| 20:29 |
VanessaE |
surely UI isn't the only mod that changes how the inventory and crafting grid behave. |
| 20:29 |
VanessaE |
and the only way to get everyone who writes those mods to agree is to create an officially-sanctioned setting, even if that setting doesn't actually do anything in the default game. |
| 20:30 |
thexyz |
just like creative_mode, right? |
| 20:30 |
VanessaE |
no. |
| 20:30 |
thexyz |
why? |
| 20:30 |
VanessaE |
I'm not talking about adding a minetest.conf setting. |
| 20:30 |
thexyz |
it's "an officially-sanctioned setting" |
| 20:30 |
thexyz |
which one then? |
| 20:31 |
thexyz |
oh, infinite_stacks |
| 20:31 |
VanessaE |
I'm talking about adding a global variable to one of the system's lua mods, e.g. in default or creative or somewhere. |
| 20:31 |
thexyz |
so then you'll ignore it as well, right? |
| 20:31 |
VanessaE |
um |
| 20:31 |
thexyz |
because you need both infinite and finite stacks |
| 20:32 |
thexyz |
or what? |
| 20:32 |
VanessaE |
if infinite_stacks = false then assume they're finite like in "survival" mode and thus always be sure to add/remove items from the current stack when doing manual operations like on_place and the like. |
| 20:32 |
thexyz |
right |
| 20:32 |
VanessaE |
...and thus the MODDER should be sure... |
| 20:32 |
VanessaE |
the way it works now, |
| 20:33 |
thexyz |
PilzAdam: please, rename creative_mode to infinite_stacks |
| 20:33 |
thexyz |
people want it. |
| 20:33 |
VanessaE |
you have to detect creative mode, AND you have to try to detect if the stacks are actually infinite by checking for the presence of the UI mod. |
| 20:33 |
VanessaE |
but that only checks for that one mod |
| 20:33 |
VanessaE |
what if there are other mods that behave that way? |
| 20:33 |
thexyz |
uh, then UI mod is broken |
| 20:33 |
VanessaE |
should a mod that needs to know this information have to check for the presence of all of those mods? |
| 20:35 |
VanessaE |
thexyz: you mean "then every mod that changes the size of an inventory stack is wrong". |
| 20:35 |
VanessaE |
s/wrong/broken/ |
| 20:35 |
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| 20:36 |
thexyz |
VanessaE: no, I mean what I said |
| 20:36 |
thexyz |
every mod that doesn't respect official docs is wrong |
| 20:36 |
VanessaE |
then nearly every mod out there is wrong |
| 20:37 |
VanessaE |
because nearly all of them do *something* that violates the official docs in some small way |
| 20:38 |
thexyz |
so be it |
| 20:38 |
VanessaE |
that's a stupid attitude and you know it. |
| 20:38 |
thexyz |
some are more wrong, some are less |
| 20:38 |
thexyz |
why? |
| 20:38 |
VanessaE |
what happened to creativity? |
| 20:39 |
VanessaE |
(as in, the art sense) |
| 20:39 |
sokomine |
se of not_in_creative_inventory. perhaps that might help? or does it imply other changes as well? the creative-mode does not strike me as that helpful as such |
| 20:39 |
thexyz |
just don't expect those mods to be compatible with each other |
| 20:40 |
thexyz |
anyway, I'm pretty sure that "because nearly all of them do *something* that violates the official docs in some small way" is correct |
| 20:40 |
thexyz |
meh |
| 20:40 |
VanessaE |
how many have to be "wrong" before you begin to realize that it's YOU (figuratively) that is wrong and not the mods? |
| 20:40 |
thexyz |
*incorrect |
| 20:41 |
thexyz |
VanessaE: please, examples |
| 20:41 |
thexyz |
I can say things too |
| 20:41 |
VanessaE |
I can't give examples without digging through hundreds of thousands of lines of code. |
| 20:41 |
sokomine |
thexyz: oh yes, most likely :-) apart from mods that only add some nodes. those might probably be ok (apart from not specifiying everything) |
| 20:41 |
VanessaE |
I'm making a guess statistically. |
| 20:41 |
thexyz |
of mods that treat creative_mode the other way |
| 20:42 |
thexyz |
VanessaE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics |
| 20:42 |
thexyz |
don't tell me you don't know that :P |
| 20:42 |
VanessaE |
of course I know that. |
| 20:43 |
VanessaE |
I've only use UI for the inventory, but as for mods anything that has to do an on_place or on_dig has to manage the inventory. |
| 20:43 |
thexyz |
right, that's why we need truly infinite stacks |
| 20:43 |
VanessaE |
and ALL of those mods are broken if you use UI because default creative forces infinite stacks when they really aren't. |
| 20:43 |
thexyz |
wait, wait |
| 20:43 |
thexyz |
00:40 < VanessaE> | how many have to be "wrong" before you begin to realize that it's YOU (figuratively) that is wrong and not the mods? |
| 20:44 |
sokomine |
hm :-) what we want is a good mode that can be used on creative servers. the main issue there is that you don't have to care about digging ressources (be they infinite or finite with a refill option), and that privs like fly are common. if you really want to get into creativity, worldedit comes along as well (for really large projects). even there, you'd do small details (which are very important) in rather conventional ways |
| 20:44 |
thexyz |
s/wrong/broken/g |
| 20:44 |
VanessaE |
[06-29 16:35] <VanessaE> s/wrong/broken/ |
| 20:45 |
VanessaE |
oops, ignore that. |
| 20:47 |
VanessaE |
like I said, I give up. you don't give a shit what anyone else thinks except you and the rest of the core devs. |
| 20:48 |
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| 20:50 |
sokomine |
hmmmm: what i don't get: if minetest.get_content_id(name) is used, what if name did not previously exist in that region? will it then be added? e.g. if you have a region which up until then hold only stone, and now you're adding a few sand node (just as an example!). will the default:sand then be given its own id? as far as i understand map chunks on database level, each chunk has its own list of id<->name pairs |
| 20:50 |
hmmmm |
'region'? |
| 20:50 |
PilzAdam |
sokomine, the id<->name pairs are per server |
| 20:50 |
hmmmm |
oh i see |
| 20:51 |
hmmmm |
no no no, this is not per block at all |
| 20:51 |
hmmmm |
these are *the* node IDs |
| 20:51 |
sokomine |
oh! |
| 20:51 |
hmmmm |
if the first node you register is default:dirt, for example, then that's going to have id 0 |
| 20:52 |
PilzAdam |
e.g. in my nether mod I first create a table "ids" with all the node ids at the initial running, then I access this table in the on_generated() calls |
| 20:52 |
sokomine |
what happens if you add and delete mods? will the list be extended? |
| 20:52 |
PilzAdam |
the list gets created at each startup |
| 20:52 |
hmmmm |
huh?? |
| 20:52 |
sokomine |
aah |
| 20:52 |
hmmmm |
hmm |
| 20:53 |
PilzAdam |
the only ones that are hardcoded are ignore=0 and air=1 AFAIK |
| 20:53 |
hmmmm |
i guess for people to actually appreciate what's going on here, they'd have to know more than i thought about minetest's internals |
| 20:53 |
hmmmm |
ignore is 127, air is 126, lol |
| 20:53 |
PilzAdam |
whys that? |
| 20:53 |
hmmmm |
does it really matter? |
| 20:53 |
hmmmm |
they're memorable numbers i guses |
| 20:54 |
sokomine |
maybe i was thinking too close to the map storage format. while not everything in there is clear to me, it seems so that it has a list of nodenames which represent ids - and those ids are later used to tell which node is at which location withhin the chunk. the scheme files seem very similar in structure |
| 20:54 |
hmmmm |
sokomine, that only has to do with mapblock serialization |
| 20:55 |
sokomine |
ok. your format looked very similar. i really hope there'll be more examples that make use of it soon :-) |
| 20:55 |
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| 20:55 |
PilzAdam |
examples incoming: |
| 20:55 |
sokomine |
but if you tell me now that that list stays constant while the server runs it's fine |
| 20:55 |
PilzAdam |
https://github.com/PilzAdam/nether/commit/46f095f02a52ef0fa5146fb9b1a207d53ceadd15 |
| 20:57 |
PilzAdam |
sokomine, as you can see the ids can be gotten after the register_node() calls of the needed nodes and they can be used until the server shuts down |
| 20:58 |
hmmmm |
again, pilzadam.... i'm not entirely sure why you need to pass the chunk x,z borders to calclighting... i figured it was originally that way so those border blocks would have correct lighting if a cave gets placed into them |
| 20:59 |
hmmmm |
i don't think people realize how little abstraction voxelmanip provides.. it's very close to the metal |
| 20:59 |
sokomine |
hm, yes, pilzadam. you're walking through the entire data field and replacing the ids of nodes you want to change through others. fine. is that the preferred method for this operation? (just to make sure) |
| 21:01 |
PilzAdam |
sokomine, yes, as far as I know thats the fastest way to use it in Lua (no get_content_id() calls or so in the loop); also the lighting and liquid updates are only needed if you place glowing/flowing nodes |
| 21:02 |
hmmmm |
lighting updates are required if you add light sources, remove nodes, or add nodes in such a way that the lighting would be changed |
| 21:02 |
sokomine |
i do need something similar for schematic files. with them, it might be easier to do it diffrently - to really change the name each id stands for. but that's a diffrent situation |
| 21:02 |
hmmmm |
if you merely replace blocks and they aren't light sources, then it is not necessary |
| 21:02 |
sokomine |
that sounds fine so far |
| 21:03 |
sokomine |
what i'll need there is find-the-ground, calculate-where-best-to-place-the-house, build-a-platform and things like that. those can be done with the data field. that's fine |
| 21:05 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, the lighting update (i.e. set_lighting() and update_lighting()) takes 0.02 to 0.01 seconds |
| 21:05 |
hmmmm |
ok. |
| 21:06 |
Exio |
PilzAdam: 20ms? what hardware? |
| 21:06 |
PilzAdam |
the whole thing takes 0.13 to 0.01 seconds |
| 21:06 |
hmmmm |
hmm, wondering if i should remove the pmin/pmax for lighting functions |
| 21:06 |
sokomine |
maybe placing the house/schematic directly into the data field could be an option as well. in a way, calls to get_node/set_node would be replaced by accessing the data field |
| 21:07 |
PilzAdam |
hmmmm, yea, its more consistent |
| 21:07 |
Exio |
if it isn't a 2005 underclocked laptop cpu, then it is slow |
| 21:07 |
hmmmm |
not only more consistent, but removes any dangerous possibilities |
| 21:07 |
hmmmm |
and then the end user gets less control too |
| 21:07 |
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| 21:08 |
hmmmm |
anyway, this is going to break the code people have currently if i do remove it |
| 21:08 |
hmmmm |
at least if they use set_lighting() |
| 21:09 |
PilzAdam |
nobody except me uses it currently AFAIK |
| 21:09 |
PilzAdam |
maybe paramat does |
| 21:09 |
PilzAdam |
but it isnt in any stable release or so |
| 21:09 |
hmmmm |
somebody should really start making dev wiki pages on this interface |
| 21:09 |
sokomine |
no, it's still very early and most people still try to figure out how to use it. best time to do change if needed |
| 21:10 |
sokomine |
what about size of the voxelmanip area? any limitations? |
| 21:11 |
hmmmm |
it has to be greater than or equal to zero, and less than 65536 in each coordinate |
| 21:11 |
Exio |
the ram the server has, i guess? |
| 21:11 |
Exio |
hehe, i was right :P |
| 21:11 |
PilzAdam |
Exio, RAM + swap |
| 21:11 |
sokomine |
hm :-) maybe i ought to have asked about "practical limitations" then :-) |
| 21:11 |
hmmmm |
john_minetest, what do you think? |
| 21:12 |
PilzAdam |
sokomine, the area gets loaded and possibly generated |
| 21:12 |
sokomine |
so a region of 1024x256x1024 nodes might work well? |
| 21:12 |
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| 21:12 |
sokomine |
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm |
| 21:12 |
sokomine |
if it gets generated, well, hmmm.... |
| 21:13 |
PilzAdam |
you can use os:clock() to benchmark it |
| 21:13 |
PilzAdam |
thats the best way to find out |
| 21:13 |
sokomine |
maybe going up in the sky would then be a solution? or disable mapgen for that purpose of importing maps |
| 21:15 |
Exio |
disable mapgen = singlenode mapgen + air |
| 21:16 |
sokomine |
single node mapgen? how do i get that? |
| 21:19 |
Exio |
mg_name = singlenode in minetest.conf |
| 21:20 |
PilzAdam |
actually in map_meta.txt |
| 21:21 |
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| 21:22 |
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| 21:23 |
Exio |
well |
| 21:23 |
Exio |
you can with the new api that hmmmm added too |
| 21:23 |
Exio |
but i don't know it :P |
| 21:24 |
hmmmm |
sokomine, i use singlenode for importing maps |
| 21:24 |
hmmmm |
it's for whenever you effectively need a blank slate |
| 21:25 |
sokomine |
ah, fine. how do i get it to produce air? also, it might be helpful to place one node every x blocks as a reference |
| 21:26 |
hmmmm |
you need to place the node every x blocks using a mod |
| 21:26 |
sokomine |
ok |
| 21:26 |
hmmmm |
you have it produce air by simply doing nothing, it generates air only by default |
| 21:26 |
sokomine |
perfect |
| 21:27 |
hmmmm |
what are you importing? |
| 21:30 |
MinetestBot |
GIT: proller github.com commited to minetest/minetest: Optimize liquid queue on generate map for liquid_finite 848c3fe51a 2013-06-29T14:29:21-07:00 http://git.io/yG18ZA |
| 21:32 |
hdastwb |
I believe WinSock and BSD sockets are quite similar; there can't be much difference in the code |
| 21:35 |
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| 22:59 |
STHGOM |
bye |
| 23:08 |
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| 23:26 |
svuorela |
does grass spawn by itself ? (the thing that once in a while gives me wheat seeds) |
| 23:27 |
PilzAdam |
svuorela, grass grows near other grass |
| 23:30 |
svuorela |
PilzAdam: and if I have none ? |
| 23:31 |
PilzAdam |
walk arround and search it |
| 23:31 |
* svuorela |
is on a skyblock. |
| 23:31 |
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| 23:31 |
PilzAdam |
then better dont walk arround ;-) |
| 23:32 |
Exio |
lol |
| 23:33 |
svuorela |
I can walk plenty around. Has made into two platforms with a rail preventig me to fall off |
| 23:33 |
Exio |
svuorela: what skyblock mod/game? |
| 23:34 |
svuorela |
Exio: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6133 |
| 23:42 |
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| 23:43 |
sokomine |
that mapgen flag didn't work. i got a full world (a pretty nice one - with a beach with palm trees). not the desired empty map |
| 23:44 |
PilzAdam |
its not a flag |
| 23:51 |
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| 23:54 |
sokomine |
how do i create a world with mg_name = singlenode ? putting it in map_meta.txt in the world folder (of a newly created, not yet visited world) did not work |
| 23:56 |
Exio |
mg_name = singlenode |
| 23:56 |
Exio |
:P |
| 23:57 |
Exio |
i meant in minetest.conf |
| 23:57 |
* Exio |
looks around |
| 23:57 |
sokomine |
aah |
