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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2021-04-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

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09:08 VanessaE 'm still looking for people to test the hell out of the latest commits of {biome_lib, plantlife modpack, moretrees} or Dreambuilder if someone could please try them
09:09 VanessaE or should I say  `(biome_lib and plantlife modpack and moretrees) or dreambuilder_game`  ;)
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11:47 BuckarooBanzai VanessaE: i saw your commits on the "biome_lib" repo (https://github.com/pandorabox-io/pandorabox-mods/pull/1620) is it safe to test that in "production" :D
11:47 BuckarooBanzai we don't have the "plantlife" modpack enable though
11:47 BuckarooBanzai *enabled
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11:58 VanessaE BuckarooBanzai: it is safe, but without either plantlife or moretrees it won't do much :P
12:17 BuckarooBanzai we _do_ have moretrees ;)
12:19 VanessaE ok :)
12:24 VanessaE note that you might want to set biome_lib_debug_log_level to 3 to get some interesting statistics
12:25 VanessaE (but not 4, unless you want to flood your console with set-node/tree/function call messages ;) )
12:27 BuckarooBanzai reading biome_lib's source code reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOqfLVCDv8
12:33 VanessaE HEY
12:33 VanessaE it isn't THAT baade.
12:33 VanessaE bad*
12:39 VanessaE if I didn't have to do so many workarounds, it would be a little more straightforward .... now I sound like Warr1024 :)
12:45 VanessaE that said I'm open to ideas/suggestions to streamline the code a little
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13:56 MTDiscord <ChaosWormz> Why are people going angry about the Richard Stallman guy returning to the FSF?
13:58 rubenwardy some context: https://rms-open-letter.github.io/
14:03 MTDiscord <ChaosWormz> i wonder if FSF will fade away due to this
14:11 MTDiscord <ChaosWormz> i do have a semi-unrelated question, that confuses me. What the diffrence between Free Software and Open Source Software
14:12 MTDiscord <ChaosWormz> can one be one of those and not the other
14:14 sfan5 basically, "open source" just means you can look at the source code while "free software" implies certain freedoms such as being able to redistribute or modify the software
14:14 MTDiscord <Jonathon> example discord is free but not open source(for the most part) minetest is free and open source
14:14 sfan5 ...and as you can see with "free software" people can get confused about free of charge and freedom
14:14 sfan5 which is why sometimes "libre software" is used
14:15 MTDiscord <Jonathon> depends what context its used in
14:16 MTDiscord <appguru> Free Libre Open Source Software (FLOSS)
14:16 MTDiscord <appguru> An abomination of a term
14:17 rubenwardy open source also means you have certain freedoms, under the open source definition
14:17 rubenwardy really, the difference is political
14:17 rubenwardy they're both ambiguous terms as well
14:19 MTDiscord <Jonathon> ^
14:20 rubenwardy Programmers aren't very good at naming things
14:20 MTDiscord <appguru> Hmmm
14:20 MTDiscord <appguru> At naming large things
14:20 MTDiscord <Jonathon> looks at the name of this project and the rehash of rename it in the forums
14:20 MTDiscord <appguru> But naming small things, like variables, properly, is IMO a requirement for a good programmer
14:24 rubenwardy not really
14:24 rubenwardy naming things is hard
14:28 rubenwardy I mean, it's important to name variables in a meanful way. But I don't think many programmers can name things well
14:31 MTDiscord <Jonathon> naming variables is more naming them practical things while naming a project is more something that sounds good to general users which is complicated....something like that?
14:32 rubenwardy not practical, but understandable
14:32 rubenwardy free software and open software aren't understandable terms
14:33 MTDiscord <Jonathon> yeah, understandable is a better way to put it
14:47 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Why do we have an acronym for FLOSS but not for BRUSH?  Aren't we going to end up with CAVITIES, whatever the hell that stands for?
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15:49 MTDiscord <Kimapr> "discord is free but not open source(for the most part)"  discord is neither free nor open source (unless you mean "free" as in "free beer", but then there's freebeer.org , which is a beer that's free as in free speech but not free as in free beer...)
15:49 MTDiscord <Kimapr> "FREE BEER is a beer which is free in the sense of freedom, not in the sense of free beer."
16:01 MTDiscord <Jonathon> https://discord.com/licenses
16:02 rubenwardy Libraries, not Discord itself
16:03 MTDiscord <Jonathon> >not open source
16:03 rubenwardy A proprietary program can use open source libraries
16:04 MTDiscord <Jonathon> "discord is free but not open source(for the most part)" can be restated as discord is not open source(but some of the library's it uses are)
16:06 MTDiscord <Kimapr> discord is absolutely proprietary, no matter what open source libraries it uses
16:06 MTDiscord <Jonathon> i never said it was
16:06 MTDiscord <Kimapr> what did you mean by "free" then?
16:07 MTDiscord <Jonathon> "not open source" <literally said it right there
16:07 MTDiscord <Kimapr> stuff can be free (libre) but not open source, and vice versa
16:07 MTDiscord <Kimapr> that's very rare though
16:08 MTDiscord <Kimapr> and discord is not an example of that
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16:16 MTDiscord <Kimapr> https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/21907/open-source-but-not-free-software-or-vice-versa#21949
16:20 celeron55 what would be an example of a libre-but-not-open-source thing?
16:21 celeron55 i guess you could call a CC-licensed photo that
16:22 celeron55 or really anything that intrinsically doesn't have a source
16:24 celeron55 i guess even a program can be libre but not have source code available, but that's weird and inconvenient and barely makes sense
16:25 celeron55 after all programs can be modified using a disassembler so it just requires a skillset...
16:25 celeron55 who said libre has to be easy
16:37 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I'm pretty sure libre and open source mean basically the same things in spirit, but they approach the same goals from different cultural underpinnings.
16:38 MTDiscord <Warr1024> If you get something in binary-only form, it can still have open source, i.e. it can be licensed under an open-source license that grants you the rights to modify the source code ... it just isn't required to actually provide you with the source code, so you might be on your own with that one.
16:38 MTDiscord <Warr1024> But e.g. an MIT license still grants you the right to reverse engineer and patch binaries even if you don't have source code.
16:39 MTDiscord <Warr1024> The "open source" thing is basically a hack to make "free software" more palatable to for-profit businesses by pushing it as a "code excellence through crowdsourcing" thing rather than a moral thing.
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17:20 celeron55 i think open source means more "transparency" than "crowdsourcing"
17:21 celeron55 or code excellence"
17:21 celeron55 +"
17:21 celeron55 i guess it depends on the company and project
17:22 MTDiscord <Jordach> At least discord contributes back to the community
17:23 MTDiscord <Jordach> Meanwhile at Oracle and SCO
17:40 VanessaE shh, never say the name of The Beast :P
17:52 MTDiscord <appguru> They be killing Java
17:52 MTDiscord <appguru> Isn't that enough of a contribution?
18:14 MTDiscord <Jordach> well yes but actually no
18:15 MTDiscord <Jordach> some devices can only be programmed with java
18:19 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Let them eat Kotlin
18:20 MTDiscord <Jordach> you mean a dumbed down java for people with farenheit IQ
18:21 MTDiscord <oneplustwo> "farenheit"
18:21 MTDiscord <Jordach> spelling schmelling
18:21 rubenwardy easier to use is better
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18:22 MTDiscord <Jordach> they said that about iPhones
18:22 rubenwardy kotlin isn't even simpler. Java is mostly quite simple, the problem is it lacks any syntactic sugar
18:22 rubenwardy so everything is boilerplate
18:23 MTDiscord <Jordach> that sounds like a lack of develop imagination
18:23 MTDiscord <Jordach> developer
18:24 MTDiscord <Warr1024> "Easier to use" is kind of an absurd thing to mock a language for.
18:25 rubenwardy it stems from elitism
18:25 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I was gonna say "that's some brogrammer-ass thinking" but sure, same diff :-)
18:26 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I mean, I always assumed I was a bit elitist, but not to the extent where I'd handicap myself just to flex.
18:32 MTDiscord <Jordach> so COBOL is now "ist" and an "ism" these days
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