Time Nick Message 09:08 VanessaE 'm still looking for people to test the hell out of the latest commits of {biome_lib, plantlife modpack, moretrees} or Dreambuilder if someone could please try them 09:09 VanessaE or should I say `(biome_lib and plantlife modpack and moretrees) or dreambuilder_game` ;) 11:47 BuckarooBanzai VanessaE: i saw your commits on the "biome_lib" repo (https://github.com/pandorabox-io/pandorabox-mods/pull/1620) is it safe to test that in "production" :D 11:47 BuckarooBanzai we don't have the "plantlife" modpack enable though 11:47 BuckarooBanzai *enabled 11:58 VanessaE BuckarooBanzai: it is safe, but without either plantlife or moretrees it won't do much :P 12:17 BuckarooBanzai we _do_ have moretrees ;) 12:19 VanessaE ok :) 12:24 VanessaE note that you might want to set biome_lib_debug_log_level to 3 to get some interesting statistics 12:25 VanessaE (but not 4, unless you want to flood your console with set-node/tree/function call messages ;) ) 12:27 BuckarooBanzai reading biome_lib's source code reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOqfLVCDv8 12:33 VanessaE HEY 12:33 VanessaE it isn't THAT baade. 12:33 VanessaE bad* 12:39 VanessaE if I didn't have to do so many workarounds, it would be a little more straightforward .... now I sound like Warr1024 :) 12:45 VanessaE that said I'm open to ideas/suggestions to streamline the code a little 13:56 MTDiscord Why are people going angry about the Richard Stallman guy returning to the FSF? 13:58 rubenwardy some context: https://rms-open-letter.github.io/ 14:03 MTDiscord i wonder if FSF will fade away due to this 14:11 MTDiscord i do have a semi-unrelated question, that confuses me. What the diffrence between Free Software and Open Source Software 14:12 MTDiscord can one be one of those and not the other 14:14 sfan5 basically, "open source" just means you can look at the source code while "free software" implies certain freedoms such as being able to redistribute or modify the software 14:14 MTDiscord example discord is free but not open source(for the most part) minetest is free and open source 14:14 sfan5 ...and as you can see with "free software" people can get confused about free of charge and freedom 14:14 sfan5 which is why sometimes "libre software" is used 14:15 MTDiscord depends what context its used in 14:16 MTDiscord Free Libre Open Source Software (FLOSS) 14:16 MTDiscord An abomination of a term 14:17 rubenwardy open source also means you have certain freedoms, under the open source definition 14:17 rubenwardy really, the difference is political 14:17 rubenwardy they're both ambiguous terms as well 14:19 MTDiscord ^ 14:20 rubenwardy Programmers aren't very good at naming things 14:20 MTDiscord Hmmm 14:20 MTDiscord At naming large things 14:20 MTDiscord looks at the name of this project and the rehash of rename it in the forums 14:20 MTDiscord But naming small things, like variables, properly, is IMO a requirement for a good programmer 14:24 rubenwardy not really 14:24 rubenwardy naming things is hard 14:28 rubenwardy I mean, it's important to name variables in a meanful way. But I don't think many programmers can name things well 14:31 MTDiscord naming variables is more naming them practical things while naming a project is more something that sounds good to general users which is complicated....something like that? 14:32 rubenwardy not practical, but understandable 14:32 rubenwardy free software and open software aren't understandable terms 14:33 MTDiscord yeah, understandable is a better way to put it 14:47 MTDiscord Why do we have an acronym for FLOSS but not for BRUSH? Aren't we going to end up with CAVITIES, whatever the hell that stands for? 15:49 MTDiscord "discord is free but not open source(for the most part)" discord is neither free nor open source (unless you mean "free" as in "free beer", but then there's freebeer.org , which is a beer that's free as in free speech but not free as in free beer...) 15:49 MTDiscord "FREE BEER is a beer which is free in the sense of freedom, not in the sense of free beer." 16:01 MTDiscord https://discord.com/licenses 16:02 rubenwardy Libraries, not Discord itself 16:03 MTDiscord >not open source 16:03 rubenwardy A proprietary program can use open source libraries 16:04 MTDiscord "discord is free but not open source(for the most part)" can be restated as discord is not open source(but some of the library's it uses are) 16:06 MTDiscord discord is absolutely proprietary, no matter what open source libraries it uses 16:06 MTDiscord i never said it was 16:06 MTDiscord what did you mean by "free" then? 16:07 MTDiscord "not open source" stuff can be free (libre) but not open source, and vice versa 16:07 MTDiscord that's very rare though 16:08 MTDiscord and discord is not an example of that 16:16 MTDiscord https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/21907/open-source-but-not-free-software-or-vice-versa#21949 16:20 celeron55 what would be an example of a libre-but-not-open-source thing? 16:21 celeron55 i guess you could call a CC-licensed photo that 16:22 celeron55 or really anything that intrinsically doesn't have a source 16:24 celeron55 i guess even a program can be libre but not have source code available, but that's weird and inconvenient and barely makes sense 16:25 celeron55 after all programs can be modified using a disassembler so it just requires a skillset... 16:25 celeron55 who said libre has to be easy 16:37 MTDiscord I'm pretty sure libre and open source mean basically the same things in spirit, but they approach the same goals from different cultural underpinnings. 16:38 MTDiscord If you get something in binary-only form, it can still have open source, i.e. it can be licensed under an open-source license that grants you the rights to modify the source code ... it just isn't required to actually provide you with the source code, so you might be on your own with that one. 16:38 MTDiscord But e.g. an MIT license still grants you the right to reverse engineer and patch binaries even if you don't have source code. 16:39 MTDiscord The "open source" thing is basically a hack to make "free software" more palatable to for-profit businesses by pushing it as a "code excellence through crowdsourcing" thing rather than a moral thing. 17:20 celeron55 i think open source means more "transparency" than "crowdsourcing" 17:21 celeron55 or code excellence" 17:21 celeron55 +" 17:21 celeron55 i guess it depends on the company and project 17:22 MTDiscord At least discord contributes back to the community 17:23 MTDiscord Meanwhile at Oracle and SCO 17:40 VanessaE shh, never say the name of The Beast :P 17:52 MTDiscord They be killing Java 17:52 MTDiscord Isn't that enough of a contribution? 18:14 MTDiscord well yes but actually no 18:15 MTDiscord some devices can only be programmed with java 18:19 MTDiscord Let them eat Kotlin 18:20 MTDiscord you mean a dumbed down java for people with farenheit IQ 18:21 MTDiscord "farenheit" 18:21 MTDiscord spelling schmelling 18:21 rubenwardy easier to use is better 18:22 MTDiscord they said that about iPhones 18:22 rubenwardy kotlin isn't even simpler. Java is mostly quite simple, the problem is it lacks any syntactic sugar 18:22 rubenwardy so everything is boilerplate 18:23 MTDiscord that sounds like a lack of develop imagination 18:23 MTDiscord developer 18:24 MTDiscord "Easier to use" is kind of an absurd thing to mock a language for. 18:25 rubenwardy it stems from elitism 18:25 MTDiscord I was gonna say "that's some brogrammer-ass thinking" but sure, same diff :-) 18:26 MTDiscord I mean, I always assumed I was a bit elitist, but not to the extent where I'd handicap myself just to flex. 18:32 MTDiscord so COBOL is now "ist" and an "ism" these days