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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2019-07-06

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 Sokomine tueninodes: blender artists are rare and hard to catch. good luck!
00:02 tumeninodes yes they are. Hi Sokomine
00:04 * Sokomine dreams about more capable village inhabitants
00:05 tumeninodes they're lazy
00:06 tumeninodes gonna need to put a call for migrant villagers from MC
00:06 tumeninodes xD
00:13 * VanessaE hides her blender credentials
00:13 VanessaE you saw nothing :P
00:14 tumeninodes -_- (squinting) wait... what was that?
00:14 tumeninodes https://github.com/TumeniNodes/blender_bumbles
00:15 * tumeninodes pulls a plate of hot fresh cookies from behind his back
00:15 tumeninodes :D
00:15 VanessaE aw shit
00:15 VanessaE he has cookies.
00:16 tumeninodes and they're hot
00:17 VanessaE well, aside from the pixelated curve, I don't see anything too horrible
00:17 VanessaE what's wrong?
00:17 tumeninodes I was so proud of myself while making the model too... until I fired it up ingame
00:17 tumeninodes it creates a glitch ingame and see through seams
00:17 VanessaE screenshot?
00:18 VanessaE (also, you should be keel-hauled and then drawn and quartered for this pixelated curve :P )
00:19 tumeninodes https://imgur.com/a/4KiViQF
00:20 VanessaE oh is that all?
00:20 tumeninodes did you see the issue? https://github.com/TumeniNodes/blender_bumbles/issues/1
00:20 VanessaE easy fix.
00:20 tumeninodes 00 it is?! :D
00:20 tumeninodes cuz I've done everything I could find to try to resolve it... in vain
00:21 VanessaE open the texture in GIMP, select all.  copy.  paste, move up one pixel.  paste, move back down one, then left one.  paste again, back in the original position.
00:21 VanessaE this creates a "smear" around the edge
00:21 VanessaE which matches the texture
00:21 VanessaE fixes those bashed edges,
00:23 VanessaE want me to fix the texture?
00:23 tumeninodes but what about this fan effect/artifact coming from these cuts? It causes a shimmer ingame along the top and is actually a lot of what is mussing up model
00:23 tumeninodes if you would I would be extremely grateful :)
00:23 VanessaE that's easily fixed, too.  one thing at a time :)
00:24 tumeninodes you know there are like 10 textures :P
00:24 tumeninodes or do you mean fix it in the UV field in Blender?
00:25 VanessaE the texture has to be fixed to get rid of the bad edges.
00:25 VanessaE that "fan" appearance is in the model.
00:25 tumeninodes I also finally figured out that the moment you make a texture bigger than the model it becomes blurred (like MTG doors)
00:25 tumeninodes and it is more than just turning off mipmaps
00:26 VanessaE fixed image attached to the issue you just linked.
00:26 tumeninodes hold on, Ima add the textures to that repo
00:26 VanessaE now for the model, just don't triangulate faces.
00:27 VanessaE when you export to obj.
00:27 VanessaE minetest doesn't need that.
00:27 tumeninodes ?? I didn't think I did. Thought I ticked that off
00:28 VanessaE turn off all export checkboxes, then tick:  selection only, apply modifiers, write normals, include UVs, objects as OBJ objects, material groups.   save those as a preset, use them to export to obj
00:28 VanessaE scale 1.00, path auto, z-forward, Y up.
00:29 VanessaE then you'll get a proper model without faces being triangulated all to hell :)
00:29 VanessaE that's how I do it.
00:29 tumeninodes please hold, doing all that rn
00:29 VanessaE make sense?  clear as mud? ;)
00:31 tumeninodes yeh I knew I didnt have triangulate faces ticked... but Ill try this anyway hold on
00:31 VanessaE it could also be all those sharp edges you have set in the model
00:33 VanessaE (to fix, go into edit mode, select all, shading/UVs -> Edges -> smooth)
00:33 tumeninodes ERROR[Main]: Irrlicht: Could not load mesh, file format seems to be unsupported: arch_door_L.obj wtf? never got that before...
00:33 VanessaE weird.,
00:33 VanessaE I get that once in a while but I never figured out what the real issue was
00:34 VanessaE when it would happen, I would just screw around with the model until it works
00:34 tumeninodes freakin keeps crashing at load up... never ever had that before...
00:34 tumeninodes maybe cus I have a ton of shit running atm
00:34 VanessaE doubt it
00:36 VanessaE there, see if that one works.
00:36 VanessaE (see your issue)
00:37 tumeninodes hold on a second... why tf is MT crashing all of a sudden when loading any world with models? I may have to restart the lappy
00:38 tumeninodes hold on, Ima reboot... brb
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00:46 tumeninodes haha, yeh MT did not like that new export I did at all
00:48 VanessaE what about mine?
00:49 tumeninodes ummm, it's flippied, and still has the same artifacts : /
00:49 tumeninodes thank you for trying though
00:50 VanessaE damn it
00:50 VanessaE did you apply the image, too?
00:50 tumeninodes aint blender a bitch? xD
00:50 tumeninodes not yet... oh, wait... yeh let me try with that
00:58 tumeninodes just popin up a video so you can see
00:58 tumeninodes can I get you some popcorn?
00:58 VanessaE heh
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01:00 tumeninodes I don;t know how else to create this door... I tried using boolean modifier to cut... then I did it just creating the fram and filling the sides by selecting all the edges and using "make-face" etc... (heavy sigh) Why Blender need be so diffycult
01:01 tumeninodes https://youtu.be/KSF1jlhmJqw don't be overwhelmed by my video mastery
01:04 VanessaE well the edge artifacts are gone at least.
01:05 VanessaE the rest is just a matter of the rotation of the model
01:05 VanessaE gimme a while, I'm working on something else atm
01:05 tumeninodes so the pimped texture is great... it is this model that's pissin me off at this point.. Nothing in Blender shows these artifacts... wiremode or even using the um select all by trait, select faces by sides etc
01:06 tumeninodes ?no the edge artifacts are still there, the new texture shows them now as almost like fins...
01:07 tumeninodes that's fine... thank you, you're the bestest... No rush, I am not pushy when someone offers help and their time to do it. :)
01:08 tumeninodes Im gonna step out and get a breath of some fresh tobaccoy/pipe air :P
01:14 Jordach tumeninodes, looks like your model has interior vertices and faces which irrlicht can't so easily handle
01:15 Jordach given more than 65535 vertices or tris and Irrlicht simply doesn't render it, printing to ErrorStream
01:15 VanessaE nope.
01:16 VanessaE but it IS an irrlicht glitch
01:16 VanessaE it can't handle some convex or concave shapes without first triangulating the offending faces (but not the triangulator that can be run at export time)
01:18 Jordach whoever thought it was a good idea to use NURBS or CAD type meshing, you're an idiot
01:19 Jordach i don't know why people keep expecting Irrlicht to be modern
01:20 VanessaE well I give up on it.
01:21 VanessaE I just can't work on it right nowe
01:21 Jordach if you want to guarantee it works, extrude a UV circle and crank up the number of vertices used to construct it
01:22 Jordach side note, just don't expect any kind of fitting texture :P
01:22 VanessaE tumeninodes: I'll fix your model later.
01:29 tumeninodes thank you Vanessa. And thank you as well Jordach for looking. If it really comes down to it, I'll use nodeboxes and tell people to deal with it haha
01:30 tumeninodes I'm good at comming up with ideas, yet sometimes just not the means to execute them, which gets really frustrating
01:30 tumeninodes > -m
01:31 tumeninodes and IMO Blender has been designed to be far more complex to basic users than it needs to be... because... programmers
01:35 Jordach not programmers
01:35 Jordach 3D modeling is deep
01:35 Jordach CAD even more so
01:36 tumeninodes haha, funny story... I even tried to create this model using a CAD software... story gets less funny as it goes
01:37 tumeninodes And I meant when it is used by basic/average users to create such basic models as this. Too bad there is no... Blender Lite :D
01:38 tumeninodes I created this model in about 10 minutes... and then have spent the last 3 days trying to figure out wtf is going on with it haha
01:40 tumeninodes But, when I have it in Blender, no matter what I have done to try to lure out these extra vertices they never appear... but Irrlicht tells an entirely different story. Irrlicht brings out the skeletons in the closet and you can't hide from them
01:40 VanessaE ok lemme see what I can do with this
01:41 tumeninodes I figured "later" would be more than 15 minutes :P
01:41 tumeninodes Careful Vanessa... you will become obsessed as I have with this freakish thing
01:41 tumeninodes I've created an abomination
01:42 tumeninodes Frankendoors
01:44 tumeninodes I'm incorporating these into a fork of PEAK's pkarcs mod, which I made a repo for, but have been working on it in a local dir on my machine first as it was a sep mod at the beginning
01:46 tumeninodes I prefer to work on stuff in a whole diff dir first to work out kinks, before adding them to my local remote and then pushing to with git. Otherwise i make a huge mess and confuse myself
01:54 VanessaE tumeninodes: there, try those files.
01:59 tumeninodes wow... they're beautiful! thank you so much
01:59 VanessaE they work?
02:02 tumeninodes the left one does, and the only open bits in the texture now are along the front/left/top edges and the back/left/top edge. Let me try the right model
02:03 VanessaE those edges are an irrlicht bug similar to what was causing the screwed up edges along the curves.  it can be fixed in a similar manner, but I'd have to make the texture bigger.
02:06 VanessaE ok, those "artifacts" you show in wireframe...
02:06 VanessaE those aren't artifacts.
02:06 VanessaE that's how I triangulated the front and back.
02:06 VanessaE I chose the corner of the door as the focal point
02:07 tumeninodes very nice Vanessa... you've saved me :) thank you so much.
02:07 VanessaE Normally you wouldn't triangulate at all but since irrlight gets stupid with this model, I did it manually.
02:07 VanessaE cheers :)
02:07 VanessaE don't forget to alter your other arch door textures in the way I did on that one
02:07 tumeninodes these models also fix the issue where if there is another mesh when looking through the windows, they would be invisible...
02:08 tumeninodes yeh... 10 of them... oh boy haha
02:09 tumeninodes though ShadMordor mentioned a method using Lua I may try too... if it will save the time to do each individual texture. And if it can cut down on the blurring of the texture on rendering ingame
02:09 VanessaE yeah but those are easy.  load, make sure the unused area is transparent, then copy, paste, paste, paste .... in different positions to create a "halo" around the image, then one more paste at the original possition, flatten it and
02:09 VanessaE -s
02:09 VanessaE and...put it to use.
02:10 tumeninodes here is what ShadMordor mentioned https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=350939#p350939
02:11 tumeninodes I will try your method
02:11 VanessaE oh G*d
02:11 tumeninodes haha
02:11 VanessaE DON'T use his method!
02:11 VanessaE those kind of compositing operations are not texture pack friendly.
02:12 tumeninodes no absolutely not
02:12 VanessaE in fact imho they ought to be deprecated in favor of percentage-based size and position arguments.
02:13 tumeninodes what we should be able to have IMO, is a means to use code within TPs
02:13 tumeninodes which can be used to add modifiers etc to textures and can be tweaked from those files
02:13 tumeninodes like MC does
02:14 VanessaE that could be useful, but would be tricky
02:14 tumeninodes you can set animation frames, etc. right from the assoc file within the TP
02:14 tumeninodes without having to touch the actual code
02:15 tumeninodes meta.txt files per texture
02:15 VanessaE right
02:16 tumeninodes But thank you so much for this... I'm literally relieved... this has had me stressed for three days haha
02:16 tumeninodes at some point I will ask you to show how you actually did it, for future ref ;)
02:17 tumeninodes because the idea for arched double windows came to mind while I was making these :P
02:17 tumeninodes and then, lest I forget... angled, arched doors and windows.... (ehem)
02:17 * VanessaE hides
02:18 tumeninodes vertices for everyone...!!!! On the house!
02:18 tumeninodes hahaha
02:18 tumeninodes I'm sick Vanessa.... very very sick
02:18 VanessaE heh
02:19 tumeninodes this was very nice of you... hopefully I can return the favor.. with textures or something... any time, just ask
02:19 VanessaE oh, and I don't give two shits and a fuck if correct english is "vertices".  it's "vertexes", damn it. :)
02:19 VanessaE no worries. glad to help.
02:20 tumeninodes well mine turn into votexes.... just black holes which suck all the life and light out of everything xD
02:20 VanessaE heh
02:20 tumeninodes >vortexes
02:20 Sokomine tumeninodes: mc villagers are...not the brightest around. they can say "hm" and have descent pathfinding...but that's about it
02:21 tumeninodes Now I can play with the artwork, which is my field which I should not stray from in the first place
02:21 tumeninodes hm.... huh hmmmm... hmmmmmmm
02:21 tumeninodes whoops, better becareful or I'll ping hmmm haha
02:21 VanessaE he hasn't been here in ages.
02:22 tumeninodes not true... he popped up a few months back if I recall... briefly
02:22 VanessaE yeah, but generally he's been gone
02:22 tumeninodes no one ever "leaves" minetest
02:22 tumeninodes yes, that is true
02:24 tumeninodes would be cool to see some pop back around
02:25 tumeninodes speaking of MC, Ive been playing with the 13.2 java version... and they are even having problems with shaders now
02:25 tumeninodes a problem with optifine and, the other thingy
02:26 tumeninodes you know what else Ive realized? something really needs to be done to get meshes to block light
02:27 tumeninodes if your in a long corridor, with doors to the outside, when you shut them (with no torches, etc) it should go completely dark
02:27 Sokomine tumeninodes: ups. that's a theory: hmm's a villager? hm :) (but it'd be very nice if he'd come back)
02:27 tumeninodes I know thats been broght up in issues a few times
02:27 tumeninodes yes it would
02:28 tumeninodes sdzen too, and PilzAdam
02:28 Sokomine oh yes. definitely
02:28 Sokomine hope they'll all show up eventually again
02:28 Sokomine and nice that you got your blender problem solved
02:29 tumeninodes I did not solve it.. Vanessa did... cuz she's the cat's meow! :D
02:29 tumeninodes I'm psyched
02:30 Sokomine yes :-) read that vanessae helped you (and even jordach showed up). so not as bad as i thought regarding blender specialists :-)
02:30 tumeninodes ah just remembered now, I can add her credits to the models... how do you prefer it done Vanessa?
02:30 VanessaE Just as VanessaE is fine.
02:31 tumeninodes we have a few. Nathan, BenRob, I know sofar plays with it fairly well
02:31 VanessaE but all I did was import your model, snap it to the grid (it was a little off), and re-UV-map it.
02:31 tumeninodes well that was a huge "all I did" though
02:32 VanessaE (well, I loaded my standard Minetest cube model, which is how all my models start out, copied/pasted your door, etc...
02:32 VanessaE )
02:33 tumeninodes I'll have to remap the low edge of the hinged face but that it...
02:33 tumeninodes my biggest problem using Blender is, I can't remember key bindings
02:34 tumeninodes my brain doesn;t work that way to well anymore with this funky brain thing I have
02:34 tumeninodes I have to rely on UI
02:35 tumeninodes which is why I am unable to actualy "learn" code at this point. A few years ago, I would have had no problem
02:36 LoneWolfHT So a Minetest Mod Maker UI would work for you?
02:38 tumeninodes not sure... maybe. I do ok with basic things... my scripting language of choise is "copy/paste"
02:38 tumeninodes choice
02:38 tumeninodes wasnt someone working on such a thing?
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02:39 tumeninodes though a UI to make mods would eventually be "limiting" as you could only do what is programmed into it
02:39 tumeninodes and it would make people lazy and probably a string of same-ish like mods produced
02:40 LoneWolfHT Eh, I think if kids wanted to do more they would learn how to code it themselves
02:40 tumeninodes it may become a thing which stifles creative thinking and problem solving
02:41 tumeninodes I know a 9yo who can code circles around even some here
02:41 tumeninodes but, he also has autism and is difficult to communicate with... but I love em
02:42 tumeninodes hopefully, he will be able to earn a living with his skills when he is older. He is on the genius level
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13:41 tumeninodes ohhhh Vanesssaaaaaaa
13:41 tumeninodes :D
13:47 tumeninodes Oh, nevermind, I did it... weeeeeee. All set now
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15:56 tumeninodes spamaroni https://forum.minetest.net/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=24914
15:57 tumeninodes this one is just sad and pathetic https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=22822
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21:19 luk3yx Why does https://minetest.net (but not https://www.minetest.net) use a self-signed certificate?
22:05 rubenwardy minetest.net points to c55's server, www points to github.io
22:18 Fixer this www. vs nowww. always puzzled me
22:18 Fixer is not www. useless? is not it is all world wide web?
22:29 Fixer googled and enlightened myself
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