| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
rubenwardy |
*Minetest Game |
| 00:00 |
Shara |
it was to begin with? |
| 00:08 |
IhrFussel |
Shara, originally I didn't mean you or your servers, but if you agree with the "my staff can do whatever and players should just accept it" attitude then I gotta say I'm a bit disappointed |
| 00:09 |
Shara |
Learn to read |
| 00:09 |
Shara |
You are self-righteous and insulting |
| 00:09 |
Shara |
And quite honestly, I thought better of you |
| 00:09 |
IhrFussel |
Not insulting, insults are something else ... maybe a bit direct |
| 00:10 |
Shara |
No, it's insulting |
| 00:10 |
Shara |
And you declaring yourself a more fair admin than I am is laughable. |
| 00:10 |
Shara |
You just seem to be making things up really. |
| 00:10 |
IhrFussel |
But I am more fair since I see myself as just another player with more responsibility |
| 00:11 |
Shara |
No, you're not |
| 00:11 |
IhrFussel |
And most of you in that thread see themselves as "property" owners who can make up any rule that has to be followed...pathetic really |
| 00:12 |
Shara |
I'm pathetic? :) |
| 00:13 |
Shara |
I small recommendation for you: spend some time actually playing on other servers and stop making up behaviours you think happen |
| 00:14 |
IhrFussel |
I didn't say that you are pathetic ... I was talking about the attitude of many in that thread. I hear enough from players that play actively on my server ... why would they need to make up such stories? |
| 00:15 |
Shara |
Read your own words. "Most of you", which is inclusive of me. |
| 00:15 |
Shara |
"pathetic really" |
| 00:15 |
IhrFussel |
I'm not claiming that *all* bans are wrong or arrogant/ignorant etc ... but certain reason for a ban or other penalty are silly and make no sense |
| 00:16 |
Shara |
Yet you seem to be taking it out on the ones who do have reasonable rules and stick to them, then calling yourself "more fair" than them. |
| 00:20 |
IhrFussel |
But I am definitely more fair if you say that the player doesn't need the right to complain about a potential bad decision of a staff member, cause that would be considered "not fair" |
| 00:20 |
Shara |
Where'd I say that? |
| 00:21 |
IhrFussel |
Not you but at least 2 others in that thread |
| 00:21 |
Shara |
So why quote me than direct that at me? |
| 00:21 |
Shara |
then* |
| 00:24 |
IhrFussel |
I'm not sure how to multi quote and I thought the others will read it anyway even if I don't quote them ... part of my post was directed towards you the rest was not |
| 00:25 |
Shara |
Well I have no clue what of any of that is directed at me. Not sure why you quoted me at all. You could just use people's names |
| 00:28 |
IhrFussel |
The last 2 lines were for you really ... and I never called myself superior to other owners, just more fair ... and more fair in this context means that I treat my players like I treat my staff members |
| 00:28 |
Shara |
Odd how I actually specifically pointed out in my post that the same standards apply to both my players and moderators.. yet somehow you are more fair than me? |
| 00:29 |
IhrFussel |
I don't tend to be on one's side more...I'm 100% neutral ... no matter who I treat everyone equally even the ones I dislike |
| 00:29 |
sofar |
IhrFussel: your perception of "fair" isn't shared by others |
| 00:29 |
sofar |
but you judge others who disagree |
| 00:29 |
IhrFussel |
Maybe it's not shared by you or many in this community, but it is shared elsewhere |
| 00:30 |
sofar |
"more fair" |
| 00:30 |
sofar |
it's your words |
| 00:30 |
Shara |
Fussel. the real ridiculous thing is that though many feel "my server so my rules"... they often choose rules that are fair and good. |
| 00:30 |
IhrFussel |
fairness means NOBODY is better than another....a lot of people share this view |
| 00:30 |
Shara |
But you only seem to see the first bit. |
| 00:30 |
sofar |
fairness, or equality? |
| 00:30 |
sofar |
maybe you're an egalitarian |
| 00:31 |
sofar |
the perception of "fair" is entirely self-centric in most cases |
| 00:31 |
IhrFussel |
That's part of fairness... fairness is also that I punish every player the same regardless of our relation |
| 00:31 |
sofar |
this isn't necessarily fair at all |
| 00:31 |
sofar |
is it fair to give a billionaire a 50$ ticket for speeding? |
| 00:33 |
Shara |
cmd ban_record moshioshi |
| 00:33 |
Shara |
opps |
| 00:34 |
sofar |
lol |
| 00:34 |
Shara |
one tab more than I'm used to and it call falls apart :D |
| 00:34 |
IhrFussel |
sofar, I hope you agree that you should not punish someone less bad just because they are your friends compared to a stranger |
| 00:34 |
IhrFussel |
If you do then you get my point |
| 00:34 |
sofar |
I don't have any friends |
| 00:35 |
sofar |
and the only punishment on my server that exists is ban |
| 00:35 |
shivajiva |
ahem, thanks :P |
| 00:35 |
sofar |
shivajiva: you're welcome ;) |
| 00:35 |
IhrFussel |
Well then my Bad Score system is also "more fair" cause it gives players the chance to change before they are banned |
| 00:35 |
sofar |
here you go again with "more fair" |
| 00:36 |
Shara |
More fair than what? |
| 00:36 |
Shara |
You think you are the only one who has something that comes before /ban? |
| 00:36 |
sofar |
you have zero comparison since comparing servers is entirely irrelevant |
| 00:36 |
sofar |
I've seen the same discussion on MC servers, it's mostly useless |
| 00:36 |
shivajiva |
50 shades of black and white, have you heard I'm unfair with my bans IhrFussel? |
| 00:37 |
IhrFussel |
I never said that I am the *only* one who treats players equally and respectfully ... I also never stated that I am the best admin, all I say is that my methods of handling a server are more forgiving |
| 00:38 |
Shara |
More forgiving is the same as more fair? |
| 00:38 |
sofar |
"more forgiving" |
| 00:39 |
sofar |
you're still comparing to nothing |
| 00:39 |
sofar |
you have no data |
| 00:39 |
shivajiva |
self-righteousness is a flaw in ones ego not a ban system |
| 00:39 |
IhrFussel |
Well in the player's point of view I am "more fair" because I don't just ban them and move on...I actually CARE about each situation where a staff member made a decision and I check if that decision was correct |
| 00:40 |
Shara |
And you are comparing against what? |
| 00:40 |
shivajiva |
care enough to come slating respectable and considerate server owners |
| 00:40 |
TommyTreasure |
IhrFussel, for what its worth, the player that started that forum thread, came into a server like a gang buster, tried to take over as 'king of the server', gave players incorrect information about mods and recipes, then started a minor lava griefing party. |
| 00:40 |
IhrFussel |
If it was not correct then I UNDO the action, apologize and punish my staff member |
| 00:40 |
sofar |
it's great to have a good set of rules on your own server |
| 00:40 |
Shara |
Fussel, you are not the only admin who ever reversed a ban after rethinking things. |
| 00:41 |
shivajiva |
we all do that... |
| 00:41 |
sofar |
it's not great to use zero data to claim that it's better than "others" |
| 00:41 |
Shara |
^ |
| 00:41 |
sofar |
I've banned maybe 3 people on ITB |
| 00:41 |
sofar |
one had "fuck" in the player name |
| 00:41 |
sofar |
lol |
| 00:41 |
TommyTreasure |
that's an instant ban for me |
| 00:41 |
IhrFussel |
Okay but some people still believe that it's not necessary to give the kicked/banned player an opportunity to tell their view of things which is what made me mad |
| 00:42 |
Shara |
RC gets almost daily log in attempts from a player with that name :) |
| 00:42 |
sofar |
I think the second one was posting URLs in chat (spam) |
| 00:42 |
TommyTreasure |
oh, i let the spew their opinion, and have never banned for an opinion. |
| 00:42 |
Shara |
Fussel, whether they get the right to explain compeltely depends on what they are doing. |
| 00:42 |
shivajiva |
I probably ban more than most because all the weirdos come to my server |
| 00:42 |
TommyTreasure |
let them* |
| 00:42 |
IhrFussel |
I would not ban in that case, I tell them to change the name and put ONLY the name on the blacklist... unless you didn't mean an IP ban |
| 00:43 |
Shara |
Fussel, my approach is warn, then kick and change password on that name. |
| 00:43 |
TommyTreasure |
when there's children under 7 years old as regular players? sorry, i wholeheartedly dissagree with that theory |
| 00:43 |
Shara |
But it's one chance only, and my moderators can't change password, so they don't have that option |
| 00:44 |
Shara |
If I know I have young players and someone joins server and starts spamming chat with inappropriate messages, what chance would you expect them to be given? That behaviour is obviously trollish and intended to disrupt the server. |
| 00:44 |
shivajiva |
if you enter my server which states it's a family server, with an offensive name you get banned by your IP, tell me how you can make that mistake because you're naive to think they deserve a second chance |
| 00:45 |
Shara |
On the other hand, a one off swear word? That's totally different and could easily have been a mistake, so we'll talk |
| 00:48 |
IhrFussel |
Unless the server description states what is allowed and sisn't allowed, it is again wrong IMO to ban a player without them knowing what's OK and what isn't |
| 00:49 |
Shara |
There's a site with the rules on it. |
| 00:49 |
IhrFussel |
You cannot expect a player to know the rules the moment they join the first time |
| 00:50 |
shivajiva |
if rules pop up to be read then it's covered |
| 00:50 |
IhrFussel |
Then that site needs to be in the server description, but at least on Android that description is only 2 lines or entirely missing |
| 00:50 |
TommyTreasure |
there's not enough room to post rules in the server description. its the player's responsibility to find the server's rules, and read them. ignorance of them is not an excuse |
| 00:51 |
IhrFussel |
You don't understand what I mean... if a player named "fuck" connects for the first time they cannot possibly know that such names are not wanted |
| 00:51 |
IhrFussel |
So an instant ban is not fair |
| 00:51 |
IhrFussel |
IP ban* |
| 00:51 |
TommyTreasure |
however, starting a game chat debate with moderators leads to players getting frustrated over their comments |
| 00:51 |
Shara |
That's like thinking it's okay to walk into a shop swearing really loudly |
| 00:52 |
TommyTreasure |
common sense disagrees with that |
| 00:52 |
shivajiva |
instead of attacking generally why don't you name the servers and the people so we can all be educated, your players have told you so why not spill the beans? |
| 00:52 |
Shara |
^ |
| 00:52 |
TommyTreasure |
or in a church |
| 00:52 |
Shara |
MT is a game that is mostly played by children |
| 00:52 |
TommyTreasure |
you don't know where you are until you get there. its commons sense to show a bit of respect if you don't know |
| 00:53 |
TommyTreasure |
for instance, i have a player on my server that's 4 years old |
| 00:55 |
IhrFussel |
Common sense doesn't really apply here cause there are certainly servers that are fine with such names...on the other hand there are likely no shops/stores that are fine with loudly swearing |
| 00:56 |
Shara |
Those servers aren't the norm though. |
| 00:57 |
IhrFussel |
Another point I raised in the thread was "punishing a player for something that was not part of the rules" do you agree here too? And think this is fair? How should the player have known that this is not OK to do? |
| 00:58 |
IhrFussel |
Mind reading? Luck? There are a few servers that do it |
| 00:58 |
Shara |
So name them and be outraged at them if you must. |
| 00:59 |
IhrFussel |
I'm interested in your opinion since you also have servers |
| 00:59 |
Shara |
I have rules and they are followed. |
| 00:59 |
IhrFussel |
Yes but imagine a player does something you consider wrong but didn't state in your rules...what will you do? |
| 01:00 |
Shara |
I can't think of a time that's happened. |
| 01:00 |
Shara |
I've extended my rules in the past, but that wasn't because the rules didn't cover things. It was to make it easier for players to understand that certain things were covered |
| 01:01 |
IhrFussel |
But what IF it would happen...how would you most likely react? |
| 01:02 |
Shara |
Totally impossible to say. It would depend on what it was |
| 01:02 |
shivajiva |
I think you listen to the tall stories your players tell more than rationalising the outcomes |
| 01:02 |
* rdococ |
scratches his head |
| 01:03 |
IhrFussel |
Okay well I can tell what I would do... I would not have the right to punish the player for it because the player didn't read about that thing anywhere, but I would add it my rules after immediately so that I can punish players in the future |
| 01:03 |
shivajiva |
you have us imagining scenarios at this point to validate this attack |
| 01:03 |
Shara |
Even if not reacting meant your server or players were at risk? |
| 01:04 |
shivajiva |
you basically called everyone pathetic without just cause |
| 01:05 |
shivajiva |
and backed it up with self-righteousness |
| 01:05 |
IhrFussel |
shivajiva, there are servers that did this before...I'm not name calling cause that's not nice to do, but your servers are not part of it AFAICT |
| 01:05 |
Shara |
And made a whole bunch of assumptions about how servers are managed without any direct experience |
| 01:05 |
Shara |
Fussel, then stop making these geenralised statements |
| 01:05 |
Shara |
generalised* |
| 01:06 |
IhrFussel |
I never said "all other servers are bad" ... I always mentioned "many" "quite a few" etc |
| 01:07 |
Shara |
You don't really seem to realise how general you make what you say. |
| 01:08 |
IhrFussel |
There are 250+ servers in the list ... of course I couldn't check all of them, that's why I focused on the more popular ones |
| 01:08 |
shivajiva |
I often go to servers to talk to the admin or mods when a player claims something and 9/10 you get the low down on the history and they have justification. Without the history it's just a fairytale |
| 01:08 |
TommyTreasure |
if they're popular, then that means the majority of the players agree to and abide to the rules |
| 01:09 |
IhrFussel |
They sometimes agree out of fear |
| 01:09 |
TommyTreasure |
oh come on. fear of what? |
| 01:09 |
IhrFussel |
Fear to lose access to their friends/projects |
| 01:09 |
IhrFussel |
You think that's not real? |
| 01:09 |
TommyTreasure |
oh well, a map reset is also a source of fear for that |
| 01:10 |
IhrFussel |
But if you know that you will be banned if you don't follow rules of server x, no matter how ridiculous you fin the rules to be...then you simply obey |
| 01:11 |
IhrFussel |
Depending on how important the server/map is to you |
| 01:11 |
shivajiva |
did they forget about free choice? |
| 01:12 |
TommyTreasure |
i also don't know of any player that plays at only 1 server. not saying there aren't but they are far and few between |
| 01:14 |
|
lumberJ joined #minetest-hub |
| 01:15 |
IhrFussel |
Most people have a "main server" and a few others they visit from time to time |
| 01:16 |
Shara |
Doesn't really match what I've seen. |
| 01:17 |
TommyTreasure |
IhrFussel, i play other servers more than i play my own |
| 01:18 |
IhrFussel |
My English isn't the best...what I mean is most people play X hours on server A and then maybe 1 or 2 on server B |
| 01:18 |
TommyTreasure |
i also abide by their rules, and don't play the servers that allow or promote foul language |
| 01:18 |
TommyTreasure |
my choice :) |
| 01:21 |
shivajiva |
good people respect others even when they are in the crappiest of moods, they exclude themselves for the benefit of others rather than create problems. What we have here is kids pushing boundaries and learning the cost |
| 01:23 |
shivajiva |
rules create order for you and the next person they encounter |
| 01:23 |
shivajiva |
it's how we learn after all |
| 01:24 |
shivajiva |
your problem is with the immature server owners |
| 01:25 |
shivajiva |
they come and go mostly |
| 01:25 |
IhrFussel |
You should only treat your players the same way you would want to be treated if you were the player... and many think different here |
| 01:26 |
IhrFussel |
I better say some* |
| 01:26 |
Shara |
Who "here" would that be? |
| 01:26 |
shivajiva |
no your wrong, everyone thinks like that except the people with agendas |
| 01:26 |
shivajiva |
*you're |
| 01:29 |
shivajiva |
this is open source, no mountain to climb or power to yield except to contribute for the many |
| 01:31 |
shivajiva |
anything you see as a power structure is in your head |
| 01:31 |
shivajiva |
ask any dev |
| 01:36 |
IhrFussel |
Then some popular servers are run by people with agendas...okay |
| 01:37 |
shivajiva |
which ones? |
| 01:37 |
shivajiva |
lets have a witch hunt :) |
| 01:39 |
shivajiva |
[OldCoder] that's sarcasm btw |
| 01:43 |
shivajiva |
we will always come across individuals with agendas, you can't escape it here because it appears in real life |
| 01:46 |
TommyTreasure |
players should be treated in accordance to the theme and rules of the server being moderated. has nothing to do with our personal feelings. i've gone way overboard with a particular player, and held back my ban button on more occasions than i can count. that player still holds the record for being banned on that server |
| 01:47 |
TommyTreasure |
for instance, i don't really care for pvp servers, yet i'm a moderator of just such a server. in most cases, i have to defend the attacker, and reprimand the victim, because the victim didn't follow the rules |
| 01:48 |
TommyTreasure |
if i followed my personal feelings, the attacker would have been banned instantly. big difference |
| 01:50 |
Shara |
I can attest to Tommy having done that, and it's a big part of why I rate him so highly as an admin. He has proved without any doubt that he follows the rules ove rhis own preferences. |
| 01:51 |
TommyTreasure |
<blushing> |
| 01:51 |
shivajiva |
the truth is for the most part we learn a deeper sense of control by trying to balance it responsibly rather than reacting |
| 01:51 |
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tumeninodes joined #minetest-hub |
| 01:52 |
tumeninodes |
systemic server ownerism..., that's what it is! |
| 01:58 |
Shara |
Hi tumeninodes |
| 02:02 |
shivajiva |
IhrFussel: no hard feelings, can't speak for the rest though |
| 02:04 |
tumeninodes |
Hi Shara, and everyone else |
| 02:22 |
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| 02:36 |
tumeninodes |
ehhhh woops :D |
| 02:36 |
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| 03:32 |
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srifqi joined #minetest-hub |
| 03:46 |
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| 04:21 |
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lumberJ joined #minetest-hub |
| 05:43 |
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elinor joined #minetest-hub |
| 07:06 |
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paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 07:44 |
sofar |
new mod, may be interesting for folks: |
| 07:44 |
sofar |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19901 |
| 08:46 |
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Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 08:48 |
kcorK |
‮what a lovely day |
| 08:50 |
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Gael-de-Sailly joined #minetest-hub |
| 09:29 |
paramat |
IhrFussel wrote: "if a player named "fuck" connects for the first time they cannot possibly know that such names are not wanted. So an instant ban is not fair" LOL, so much nonsense :] |
| 09:35 |
paramat |
'oh sorry, i just joined and haven't read the rules yet, didn't realise i couldn't make death threats, so you can't do anything' ^_^ |
| 09:35 |
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red-001 joined #minetest-hub |
| 09:43 |
paramat |
'oh sorry, your rules don't mention this very specific extremely nasty behaviour, so i didn't realise i couldn't and you can't do anything. i have human rights you know!' |
| 09:43 |
rud0lf |
there's an uspoken rule everywhere: don't be a d*ck |
| 09:49 |
paramat |
(i would actually avoid Ihr's server due to admin being too soft on players) |
| 09:51 |
|
Peppy joined #minetest-hub |
| 09:51 |
Peppy |
hi |
| 09:52 |
kcorK |
rud0lf, Wheaton's law |
| 09:52 |
kcorK |
‮player names like "fuck" can be forbidden before they iregister |
| 09:52 |
kcorK |
‮*register |
| 09:55 |
Peppy |
paramat, do you think that "Force players to set their language via GUI on first application launch" would be a valid request ? |
| 09:58 |
Peppy |
too bad paramat did timeout, maybe others can give their thoughts about this one... |
| 10:08 |
longerstaff13 |
some users may not want to give out their language |
| 10:09 |
kcorK |
Peppy, ‮why not detect it automatically? |
| 10:09 |
kcorK |
‮that's what we do right now and it works quite good |
| 10:10 |
kcorK |
‮ btw longerstaff13 , does this text look mirrored to you? |
| 10:11 |
longerstaff13 |
kcorK: it looks backward :P |
| 10:11 |
longerstaff13 |
if you highlight it though, it goes to normal |
| 10:11 |
Peppy |
it's apain to read :D |
| 10:11 |
longerstaff13 |
lol |
| 10:12 |
kcorK |
‮oh,t hen it's great :D |
| 10:12 |
kcorK |
‮ and it's 1st april, Peppy :D |
| 10:12 |
longerstaff13 |
P: puy |
| 10:12 |
Peppy |
well maybe detection doesn't work so well on Android only (I can't test this) |
| 10:13 |
kcorK |
‮the character is called RIGHT-TO_LEFT writing mark/control whatever |
| 10:14 |
longerstaff13 |
heh, if I try /nick 31ffatsregnol, it says it's an Erroneous nickname :P |
| 10:15 |
kcorK |
‮they may not start with a number? weird |
| 10:15 |
ffatsregnol |
heh |
| 10:16 |
kcorK |
‮works :D |
| 10:16 |
ffatsregnol |
puy |
| 10:16 |
kcorK |
‮you can also group the nickname to your other account in order to stay registered |
| 10:17 |
kcorK |
‮oh boy hexchat messes up so bad when the message wraps around the next line |
| 10:17 |
longerstaff13 |
:P |
| 10:17 |
longerstaff13 |
you use hexchat too? |
| 10:17 |
kcorK |
‮ofc. simplistic and easy to use client |
| 10:17 |
longerstaff13 |
indeed |
| 10:18 |
longerstaff13 |
I use it on Ubuntu 16.04 |
| 10:18 |
kcorK |
‮but what I kinda miss are easy control inputs for colors and text formatting |
| 10:18 |
longerstaff13 |
you mean like this? |
| 10:19 |
kcorK |
‮did you mean to format that line? I don't see anything |
| 10:19 |
longerstaff13 |
yeah, it was bold |
| 10:19 |
longerstaff13 |
lol |
| 10:19 |
kcorK |
‮ctrl+U works quite good |
| 10:19 |
longerstaff13 |
underline |
| 10:19 |
kcorK |
‮and this shows as bold, italic and underline to me |
| 10:20 |
longerstaff13 |
sweet |
| 10:20 |
longerstaff13 |
it's just backwards to me XD |
| 10:21 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:22 |
kcorK |
‮hello paramat |
| 10:23 |
rubenwardy |
Quassel > Hexchat |
| 10:23 |
longerstaff13 |
I used to use Quassel on another machine |
| 10:23 |
kcorK |
‮Quassel > Hexchat |
| 10:24 |
kcorK |
‮oh dear, it also swaps the GT/LT signs |
| 10:24 |
longerstaff13 |
imo hexchat is easier for connecting to ZNC :P |
| 10:25 |
Wayward_One |
hi all :) |
| 10:25 |
kcorK |
‮hello Wayward_One |
| 10:25 |
longerstaff13 |
hey Wayward_One |
| 10:26 |
shivajiva |
hello Wayward_One :) |
| 10:27 |
longerstaff13 |
good late morning, shivajiva o/ |
| 10:28 |
* shivajiva |
yawns and wonders if someone patched the bullet hole in Fussels foot |
| 10:29 |
longerstaff13 |
lol |
| 10:29 |
kcorK |
‮git apply bulled_hole.patch |
| 10:30 |
shivajiva |
lol nearly kcorK |
| 10:31 |
kcorK |
‮hello shivajiva :) |
| 10:31 |
shivajiva |
hiya Krock :) |
| 10:32 |
rubenwardy |
Don't use quassel with znc |
| 10:32 |
rubenwardy |
Znc sucks |
| 10:32 |
rubenwardy |
Quassel-core syncs so much better |
| 10:33 |
longerstaff13 |
rubenwardy: I'm guessing that's what you use? |
| 10:33 |
rubenwardy |
Yeah |
| 10:33 |
rubenwardy |
It works like a modern app, connecting clients download all recent messages reliably |
| 10:33 |
shivajiva |
it does? How have I got 2 years down the line with ZNC without any issue other than timestamps :P |
| 10:33 |
longerstaff13 |
lol |
| 10:34 |
rubenwardy |
Means you can use multiple devices and have the log appear consistently |
| 10:34 |
longerstaff13 |
I've been using ZNC for about a year |
| 10:34 |
rubenwardy |
With znc, the first device to read the logs consumes it |
| 10:34 |
Shara |
ZNC has been doing fine for me as well |
| 10:34 |
Shara |
(also hi everyone) |
| 10:34 |
rubenwardy |
So further connecting devices won't see the scrollback |
| 10:34 |
shivajiva |
Morning Shara |
| 10:34 |
rubenwardy |
Also, scrollback is infinite |
| 10:34 |
shivajiva |
ah that's probably why, never use other devices |
| 10:34 |
longerstaff13 |
my internet connection used to be bad (heh, it still is), but at my old place it was worse, so I asked someone for a ZNC account |
| 10:35 |
rubenwardy |
And it syncs read status |
| 10:35 |
rubenwardy |
I used znc for a year or so |
| 10:35 |
Wayward_One |
ÉɹÉÉ¥s ıɥ |
| 10:35 |
Shara |
:) |
| 10:35 |
rubenwardy |
Plus it's easier to setup than znc |
| 10:36 |
Shara |
Even I managed to set up ZNC... so it can't be that difficult :P |
| 10:37 |
shivajiva |
as I trust your opinion ruben, I'll take a look see |
| 10:37 |
longerstaff13 |
I set it up locally in a terminal on one of my other machines, used that for about a month, but my internet started disconnecting a lot so I went back to a hosted-for-me ZNC |
| 10:37 |
rubenwardy |
Znc is easy to setup |
| 10:38 |
kcorK |
‮ Wayward_One, that's not a control character |
| 10:39 |
kcorK |
‮I imagine converting each message is quite painful |
| 10:42 |
shivajiva |
quassel core needs quassel clients for it to work? |
| 10:49 |
rud0lf |
yup |
| 10:49 |
rud0lf |
core is like a server for quassel clients |
| 10:50 |
shivajiva |
hmm okay |
| 10:51 |
lisac |
WTF https://www.fluentcpp.com/2018/04/01/cpp-will-no-longer-have-pointers/ |
| 10:52 |
rud0lf |
lisac: april fools? |
| 10:52 |
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| 10:52 |
Shara |
Aww, you should have delayed explaining :) |
| 10:52 |
lisac |
:( I'm bad at these |
| 10:52 |
* Shara |
wanted to see if anyone else would react :P |
| 10:53 |
rud0lf |
it like saying mcdonalds won't have burgers any more |
| 10:54 |
longerstaff13 |
my reaction if ^ that happened: D: |
| 10:59 |
kcorK |
‮ lisac, that's an april fool |
| 10:59 |
lisac |
I know |
| 11:02 |
lisac |
RP ekoj a gnikam tuoba gnikniht m'I |
| 11:19 |
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| 11:39 |
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| 11:59 |
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cx384 joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:16 |
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| 12:21 |
Wayward_One |
Lol kcorK, it's a new feature on one of my mobile clients |
| 12:23 |
kcorK |
‮ Wayward_One, what does "it" refer to? |
| 12:30 |
Fixer |
interesting |
| 12:32 |
cx384 |
kcorK (: ˙ʎÉpoʇ ƃuoÉ¹Ê sı uoıʇɔÇɹıp Çɥʇ Êžuıɥʇ ı |
| 12:33 |
kcorK |
‮ cx384, yours seems to be much easier to read as it's 180° rotated |
| 12:34 |
Calinou |
reyalP tseteniM ,senim tset tsum uoy ,emag eht niw oT |
| 12:35 |
Calinou |
hi :) |
| 12:35 |
cx384 |
pÉÇɹ oʇ pɹÉÉ¥ ÊŽllÉÇɹ sı sıɥʇ |
| 12:35 |
rubenwardy |
Not really |
| 12:36 |
rubenwardy |
Can just turn the screen around |
| 12:36 |
rud0lf |
it 'test' part of minetest an ending like in "best" or "lightest" ? |
| 12:36 |
rubenwardy |
Especially as I'm on my phone |
| 12:36 |
rud0lf |
minetest of them all |
| 12:36 |
Calinou |
there's a shortcut on Windows 10 to rotate the display |
| 12:37 |
kcorK |
‮ rubenwardy, but you can't flip your phone so it makes this message here readable |
| 12:38 |
rubenwardy |
The problem with that is you're then using Windows 10 |
| 12:39 |
kcorK |
‮I'm sure you could run a command in Linux to do the same thing |
| 12:45 |
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| 12:45 |
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| 12:48 |
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| 12:50 |
longerstaff13 |
is anybody able to give my account permanent voice here? if so I would be really grateful, thanks :) |
| 12:53 |
Calinou |
I don't have operator permissions here |
| 12:54 |
longerstaff13 |
aw okay, do you know who does? |
| 12:56 |
Calinou |
type /msg ChanServ access #minetest-hub list |
| 12:56 |
Calinou |
people with +O or +o have operator privileges |
| 12:56 |
Calinou |
people with +V have automatic voice |
| 12:56 |
cx384 |
http://hub.minetest.net/ ʇuıɥ |
| 12:57 |
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| 12:58 |
paramat |
the mineyest |
| 12:59 |
paramat |
the mintyest |
| 12:59 |
longerstaff13 |
mm, mint |
| 12:59 |
longerstaff13 |
Linux Mint is good too |
| 13:03 |
longerstaff13 |
Calinou: thanks |
| 13:09 |
aerozoic |
Anybody have a link that explains the formula for the server list? |
| 13:10 |
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| 13:12 |
Calinou |
aerozoic: the code is there :) https://github.com/minetest/master-server |
| 13:12 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/minetest/master-server/blob/master/server.py#L302-L347 |
| 13:13 |
aerozoic |
i'm not a coder :( |
| 13:13 |
aerozoic |
oh it's commented, thanks :) |
| 13:16 |
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| 13:19 |
aerozoic |
OMG my server is #2???????? |
| 13:19 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2 -- Burned wood |
| 13:22 |
rubenwardy |
!server |
| 13:22 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: *** MinersWorld *** by Telesight | minersworld.telesight.nl:30006 | Clients: 5/60, 4/7 | Version: 0.4.16 / minetest | Ping: 6ms |
| 13:22 |
rubenwardy |
!server score:top |
| 13:22 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: No results |
| 13:41 |
aerozoic |
It would be cool if owners could see their score somehow. |
| 13:55 |
xerox123 |
rubenwardy: where can I find your script to see how a server is being scored? |
| 13:55 |
rubenwardy |
https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/6d6882db0cbe1b5b24be |
| 13:56 |
xerox123 |
thanx |
| 14:02 |
lisac |
is the network protocol documented anywhere? |
| 14:03 |
lisac |
I found this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/protocol.txt |
| 14:03 |
lisac |
it does work, but it doesn't mention anything like at all |
| 14:03 |
rubenwardy |
? |
| 14:03 |
rubenwardy |
like what? |
| 14:03 |
rubenwardy |
also, that's only partial document |
| 14:03 |
rubenwardy |
+ation |
| 14:04 |
rubenwardy |
you want src/network/protocol.h |
| 14:04 |
rubenwardy |
there's an enum with documentation there |
| 14:04 |
lisac |
oh |
| 14:04 |
lisac |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/network/networkprotocol.h ? |
| 14:04 |
lisac |
I was hoping for some examples lol |
| 14:05 |
rubenwardy |
heh |
| 14:05 |
rubenwardy |
use wireshark for that |
| 14:06 |
rubenwardy |
hint: there's a plugin for wireshark to give packets nice names |
| 14:06 |
lisac |
I'm using wireshark, but I'm terrible at using wireshark. :P |
| 14:06 |
lisac |
I somehow managed to filter it to only show port 30000 though |
| 14:07 |
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| 14:08 |
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| 14:08 |
longerstaff13 |
what is it with these spammers attacking random channels? |
| 14:09 |
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| 14:10 |
xerox123 |
longerstaff13: april fools |
| 14:11 |
longerstaff13 |
fair enough |
| 14:24 |
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| 14:26 |
rud0lf |
so they're trying to fool people that their server is cool? |
| 14:26 |
rud0lf |
*ba-dum tss* |
| 14:27 |
paramat |
hehe 'my server is burned wood' |
| 14:29 |
rud0lf |
does it smell like tnt to you? |
| 14:36 |
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| 14:38 |
IhrFussel |
paramat, just because I give my players more chances and respect them more compared to certain other server owners, doesn't make me a bad or soft admin ... I still punish players who break my rules but it's completely unnecessary to just ban them after one mistake |
| 14:40 |
IhrFussel |
You don't even have a server, so I don't feel like you know what it takes to be a good server admin |
| 14:41 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 14:41 |
rubenwardy |
none of us say we ban after one mistake |
| 14:42 |
rubenwardy |
generalising again |
| 14:42 |
lumberJ |
i've learned the hard way giving chances, 99.9%, never makes a difference. Of course, i'm not referring to honest mistakes |
| 14:42 |
IhrFussel |
You said you only have "ban" as option which is bad server management in my eyes... you should have more than that |
| 14:42 |
rubenwardy |
nope |
| 14:42 |
rubenwardy |
everyone has kick |
| 14:42 |
rubenwardy |
also, who's "you" |
| 14:43 |
lumberJ |
but many players breeze past rules, essentially willfully ignoring them and then claim to not have known the rules after being confronted about it |
| 14:43 |
IhrFussel |
Then you obviously don't use kick cause you said yesterday that you only use ban |
| 14:43 |
rubenwardy |
I didn't say that |
| 14:44 |
IhrFussel |
Okay I forgot it was sofar |
| 14:44 |
IhrFussel |
"and the only punishment on my server that exists is ban" |
| 14:45 |
rubenwardy |
sofar's server doesn't have any players |
| 14:45 |
rubenwardy |
so... |
| 14:45 |
lumberJ |
Whats the issue with banning players? |
| 14:45 |
rubenwardy |
XD |
| 14:45 |
lumberJ |
isn't it far more humane to ban them quickly so they move on to a server that is less moderated or has no rules |
| 14:45 |
lumberJ |
? |
| 14:46 |
IhrFussel |
lumberJ, a ban is the highest punishment and completely misused for a "tiny" rule break |
| 14:46 |
lumberJ |
than to string them along, let them build and mine a lot and then end up banning them because the way they want to play is not compatible? |
| 14:46 |
lumberJ |
yeah, but 'tiny' is subjective |
| 14:46 |
rubenwardy |
I only immediately ban if it's blatently malicious, such as a lot of spam (think pages moving past) or overly graphic sexual content |
| 14:47 |
lumberJ |
what may seem tiny to one person may be very irritating to someone else |
| 14:47 |
IhrFussel |
I'm confident that my score system is a far better approach cause the amount of bad points a player receives depends entirely on WHAT they did ... and spamming the chat is obviously LESS bad than griefing |
| 14:47 |
lumberJ |
especially if the rule is clearly stated and agreed upon |
| 14:47 |
rubenwardy |
you're overally self confident |
| 14:47 |
rubenwardy |
and self righteous |
| 14:48 |
lumberJ |
i have a scoring system: break a rule -1, your banned :P |
| 14:48 |
IhrFussel |
My server is one evidence for the fact that a "soft rule server" must NOT end in chaos |
| 14:48 |
lumberJ |
in all seriousness, if that works for you its fine, but that doesn't work for all admins/server owners |
| 14:49 |
lumberJ |
not every one wants to invest all their spare time grooming players to play nice or essentially babysitting |
| 14:49 |
lumberJ |
and its not an issue or 'respecting' players |
| 14:49 |
lumberJ |
respect goes both ways |
| 14:49 |
rud0lf |
rubenwardy: so announcement to master server is practically a .json blob POST-ed to it? |
| 14:49 |
rubenwardy |
yep |
| 14:50 |
rubenwardy |
If a player shows complete disdain for the rules, why should the play on my server? |
| 14:50 |
* longerstaff13 |
wonders what he walked into |
| 14:50 |
IhrFussel |
Your players are also paying on your server...they are paying their freetime and some of you seem to forget that |
| 14:50 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 14:50 |
lumberJ |
its far easier to server hop, than it is for me to bend my own rules after all the time/money I have spent on it |
| 14:51 |
rubenwardy |
why should they get to ruin the experience for other players? |
| 14:51 |
IhrFussel |
You should be a bit thankful that they chose YOUR server to build their projects or spend their time in general |
| 14:51 |
lumberJ |
i am very thankful to the ones who follow the rules |
| 14:51 |
lumberJ |
and they know they are appreciated and they play regularly, often many hours a day |
| 14:52 |
lumberJ |
and they appreciate that i don't tolerate nonsense and quickly dispatch rulebreakers |
| 14:52 |
IhrFussel |
And because many spend so much time on your server, it is almost a crime to simply BLOCK their access to their projects just because they broke some rule ... you should punish them only as much as their action deserves |
| 14:52 |
rubenwardy |
wow |
| 14:53 |
lumberJ |
their parents can do that |
| 14:53 |
IhrFussel |
You are a joke |
| 14:53 |
lumberJ |
most players i ban get banned within the first 30 minutes of joining |
| 14:53 |
rubenwardy |
you are a joke |
| 14:53 |
lumberJ |
its not as if i string them along and suddenly ban them |
| 14:53 |
paramat |
'almost a crime' |
| 14:53 |
aerozoic |
OMG not this again |
| 14:54 |
lumberJ |
lol |
| 14:54 |
IhrFussel |
Sorry but I have no other words left for you...you just think you are the gods on your servers and you feel NOTHING for your players |
| 14:54 |
rubenwardy |
you're a self-rightreous idiot |
| 14:54 |
lumberJ |
you might try joining any of out servers and asking the regular players how they feel |
| 14:54 |
paramat |
'just because they broke some rule' |
| 14:54 |
IhrFussel |
You treat your players like insects |
| 14:55 |
rubenwardy |
no I don't |
| 14:55 |
lumberJ |
its quite the opposite. many players treat servers like insects |
| 14:55 |
paramat |
server owners are gods of their universes obviously |
| 14:55 |
lumberJ |
its something easily joined/easily left |
| 14:55 |
IhrFussel |
Why are you only saying "they can switch servers if they don't like it" instead of CONSIDERING a change on the server??? |
| 14:56 |
lumberJ |
because i have tried a soft method for many months admining on other peoples servers |
| 14:56 |
IhrFussel |
Maybe they are NOT the bad guys, but you server owners make up rules many feel violated in their rights |
| 14:56 |
lumberJ |
it doesn't work in my experience |
| 14:56 |
lumberJ |
what rights? |
| 14:57 |
lumberJ |
they have no rights. its not public property |
| 14:57 |
IhrFussel |
Are you serious? Human rights APPLY EVERYWHERE |
| 14:57 |
rubenwardy |
they actually don't |
| 14:57 |
lumberJ |
lol |
| 14:57 |
rubenwardy |
many have exceptions |
| 14:57 |
lumberJ |
so their human rights are being violated by server rules |
| 14:57 |
rubenwardy |
for example, right to family doesn't apply in priso |
| 14:57 |
lumberJ |
they choose to accept them and then break them? |
| 14:57 |
IhrFussel |
Are you realy that dumb?? So you think you can KILL someone on your property? |
| 14:57 |
rubenwardy |
that isn't a human right |
| 14:57 |
rubenwardy |
oh wait it is |
| 14:57 |
IhrFussel |
It's a human right to LIVE |
| 14:58 |
lumberJ |
you can kill people on your property in many places in the U.S. |
| 14:58 |
rubenwardy |
but as a private person, you can't violate someone's human rights |
| 14:58 |
rubenwardy |
only governments can do that |
| 14:58 |
rubenwardy |
human rights apply to governments, not people |
| 14:58 |
rubenwardy |
criminal law is for private people |
| 14:58 |
lumberJ |
they also apply to humans not 'players' |
| 14:59 |
paramat |
being banned on a server is not relevant to human rights, it's on the level of toddlers squabbling over a toy |
| 15:00 |
lumberJ |
its really ok for servers to have differing philosophies about what can be tolerated and what cannot.. |
| 15:01 |
rubenwardy |
allowing players to continue to play after violating rules without regard just makes the rules pointless |
| 15:03 |
paramat |
if a human right is violated or a law is broken the laws are already there to deal with it, for example, don't make serious death threats to others etc. |
| 15:03 |
IhrFussel |
lumberJ, https://www.ejiltalk.org/un-human-rights-council-confirms-that-human-rights-apply-to-the-internet/ |
| 15:04 |
paramat |
but does not apply to banned players on servers |
| 15:05 |
rubenwardy |
we're still not the government |
| 15:05 |
rubenwardy |
exceot kcorK, he's an FBI agent spy |
| 15:06 |
IhrFussel |
Well whether or not human rights need to be followed by private persons depends on the country you live in ... in Germany data protection is very strict and so are the rights of each person |
| 15:06 |
rud0lf |
can you extract the values that are announced to master server from mod .lua script? |
| 15:06 |
rubenwardy |
that's data protection laws |
| 15:07 |
rubenwardy |
not related to CoHR |
| 15:08 |
IhrFussel |
Like I said it depends on the country and at this point I wish other countries would apply the German laws in this regard ... for example if someone payed for a service and suddenly gets banned the ban is illegal and must be undone |
| 15:09 |
rubenwardy |
no one pays in minetest |
| 15:09 |
IhrFussel |
In case the ban was for silly reasons* |
| 15:10 |
kcorK |
‮ rubenwardy, can confirm |
| 15:10 |
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srifqi joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:10 |
rubenwardy |
saying that, a few people have already bought stuff on my website rubenwardy.com/store |
| 15:11 |
rubenwardy |
selling IaPs or CTF |
| 15:11 |
rubenwardy |
*for' |
| 15:11 |
IhrFussel |
That was an example to explain how "rights" of people are protected here |
| 15:11 |
paramat |
even in Europe banning or disciplining players in a server is irrelevant to human rights or the law, everyone knows that by joining a server the server owner can do anything they want within the law |
| 15:12 |
IhrFussel |
paramat, that is wrong and doesn't apply in Germany at least ... the owner of the service MUST act responsibly and if they blindly ban people for tiny/silly reasons then the people can complain to the Federal Network Agency |
| 15:13 |
paramat |
German laws don't apply to banned or disciplined players |
| 15:13 |
paramat |
a server isn't a service |
| 15:13 |
IhrFussel |
What?? Of course |
| 15:13 |
rubenwardy |
it is |
| 15:13 |
rubenwardy |
a free one |
| 15:14 |
IhrFussel |
Aynways...if the person didn't pay for the service then it makes little to no sense to tell it the agency cause they will likely not care too much...it's different if money is involved |
| 15:15 |
paramat |
(well i mean, not a service payed for) |
| 15:16 |
IhrFussel |
But my entire point is: Some (not name calling publicly) server owners treat their players in a pretty bad way and punish them way too much compared to the rule they broke ... and I wonder why that has to be |
| 15:16 |
paramat |
.. and we're talking about free servers, as you said they won't care, obviously |
| 15:17 |
paramat |
because that's their freedom, just as you have the freedom to run your server as you wish. you may not like other servers but that's as far as it goes |
| 15:17 |
IhrFussel |
And now you will tell me "my server, my rules..obey or leave" and that is the issue |
| 15:17 |
IhrFussel |
Ignore instead of change |
| 15:18 |
paramat |
you have already described these servers you criticise as being 'popular', so, players like them as they are |
| 15:19 |
IhrFussel |
Nah that has nothing to do with "more players = players love the server more" ... you do know that the player count on servers is largely random? |
| 15:19 |
IhrFussel |
Sometimes I have 25 players online, other times I have 5 players online ... people simply choose the highest ranked server when they open their game |
| 15:19 |
paramat |
you're arguing against others having freedom while appreciating your own |
| 15:20 |
IhrFussel |
Nobody scrolls through the list to find an empty server |
| 15:20 |
aerozoic |
IhrFussel, why not ask these server owners privately, owner to owner, if they would explain without any judgement from you? |
| 15:20 |
paramat |
no, players know what they like and will play long term on servers they like |
| 15:21 |
IhrFussel |
At least 1 server owner has no forum or IRC account |
| 15:21 |
IhrFussel |
One of the server owners I have a problem with* |
| 15:22 |
IhrFussel |
And if I would try to connect to their server to talk about it, they would very likely instantly ban me |
| 15:22 |
IhrFussel |
From what I heard |
| 15:23 |
IhrFussel |
Cause they don't want negative opinions, no critique |
| 15:23 |
aerozoic |
Another prejudgement based on 2nd hand info. |
| 15:24 |
IhrFussel |
Not any 2nd hand... I know the person who told me that very well |
| 15:24 |
paramat |
the whole idea of MT is to be able to freely create your own universe and be an all-powerful god, you may not like what other gods do, but you're taking it too far and arguing against the fundamental idea of MT |
| 15:24 |
IhrFussel |
So the idea of MT is "HEY EVERYONE LETS PLAY GODS"??? That sounds stupid |
| 15:25 |
rubenwardy |
IhrFussel: odd how CTF is consistently at the top |
| 15:25 |
rubenwardy |
if it is random |
| 15:25 |
IhrFussel |
CTF servers in general are very popular, yours is not the first popular one ... also you're not someone unknown in the community |
| 15:26 |
rubenwardy |
mine is literally the first popular one |
| 15:26 |
rubenwardy |
like, I made CTF and my server was the first CTF server |
| 15:26 |
IhrFussel |
The same about HOMETOWN... 99% the server only got so popular so fast because the server owner was known in the forums for a very long time (as seen by their post count) |
| 15:26 |
paramat |
yes MT is certainly and obviously a 'God simulator' (good name) lol |
| 15:27 |
rubenwardy |
maybe there's a correlation between how long the owner has been in the community and how much they make it stand out? |
| 15:27 |
kcorK |
This time no text reversal due Regex question: I'd like to convert "https://blah.com/ab/cd.git" to "https://blah.com/ab/cd". What I've got so far: "^(http[s]?://[\w_.-]*/[\w_-]*)(.git|/)" |
| 15:27 |
kcorK |
but does anyone know how I would get the contents of the large first parentheses? |
| 15:28 |
IhrFussel |
Well my server was one of the most popular BEFORE I created my forum account ... but mst of my active players didn't seem to be part of the "real community" and were more like random mobile players |
| 15:28 |
rubenwardy |
most of my players only became active on the on the forums due to the server |
| 15:29 |
rubenwardy |
only a few people were already active, and those were the 2 players nicked from Xanadu |
| 15:29 |
rubenwardy |
vast majority are Android |
| 15:29 |
rubenwardy |
ITB is the only server that has mainly community players |
| 15:29 |
rubenwardy |
like, from the forums |
| 15:29 |
rubenwardy |
this is because it is a singleplayer game hosted as a server |
| 15:30 |
IhrFussel |
My forum thread is pretty much dead so almost nobody on my server seems to have an account there |
| 15:30 |
rubenwardy |
so has no incentives for loads of players to join |
| 15:30 |
rubenwardy |
it also isn't appealing to the android crowd, unfortunately |
| 15:31 |
IhrFussel |
Like I said... it's largely a luck game which server will be on top of the list...or let's say the top 10 of servers are a luck game |
| 15:31 |
kcorK |
nvm. found the way using groups to read the contents |
| 15:32 |
IhrFussel |
And the extreme jumping between places doesn't help either ... servers can jump from 15th to 5th in a matter of minutes |
| 15:33 |
IhrFussel |
Depends on how many "guests" are connected mostly and I wonder if you will eventally change that |
| 15:33 |
IhrFussel |
eventually* |
| 15:39 |
rubenwardy |
there are a lot of servers |
| 15:39 |
rubenwardy |
and not enough players |
| 15:39 |
rubenwardy |
so for most I can see it being hard to stand out |
| 15:40 |
rubenwardy |
would be good if we could fix scrolling on Android |
| 15:40 |
rubenwardy |
and aksi allow a single screenshot per one |
| 15:40 |
rubenwardy |
like a youtube icon |
| 15:43 |
IhrFussel |
rubenwardy, but right now guests are 95% of mobile players cause they connect via some 3rd-party app that gives them a pre-determined name like "Westguard550" and those players are what makes the servers jump so much ... a popular server with 20+ players has at least 5 of those on average...but even a server with just 5 players could be all those names which means very bad rating |
| 15:45 |
IhrFussel |
In my master-server issue someone (maybe it was even you) mentioned the possibility of lowering the penalty from 1/8 pts to 1/2 which sounds better already...but nothing has been commented there since |
| 15:46 |
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| 15:50 |
xerox123 |
for remote media do I just run this script at server start https://gist.github.com/sfan5/6351560 and set the remote media link? |
| 16:06 |
kcorK |
‮[off] here's some asshole design http://krock-works.16mb.com/u/holedesign-2018-04-01_18.04.44.mp4 |
| 16:07 |
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| 16:08 |
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| 16:39 |
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| 17:11 |
Fixer |
kcorK: is that one reversed intentionally? |
| 17:12 |
kcorK |
‮ Fixer, what do you mean? |
| 17:13 |
Fixer |
i see |
| 17:14 |
Fixer |
i wonder if UN also grants free speech for propaganda |
| 17:39 |
sofar |
o_O we've had like 50 new players today on ITB, there's been like 8+ ppl online at the same time |
| 17:43 |
sofar |
I think we got some sort of easter sunday school raid ITB, lol |
| 18:07 |
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| 18:18 |
kcorK |
‮ rubenwardy, I'm currently updating the mod search engine. added link checking, so they won't 404 anymore :D |
| 18:18 |
kcorK |
‮congrats sofar! what's the record player count you had so far? |
| 18:20 |
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| 18:21 |
Shara |
IhrFussel: Don't you ever stop. |
| 18:21 |
Shara |
There is so much wrong with so many things you say that it makes my head hurt. |
| 18:23 |
Shara |
Your comments on CTF also prove you just make up stats with nothing real behind them. |
| 18:29 |
IhrFussel |
Shara, you simply have another opinion but that doesn't make what I say "wrong" just different... I never mentioned stats but I have my server long enough to know how the server list works and it's not very useful in its current state |
| 18:29 |
Shara |
I'm not talking about the server list. |
| 18:29 |
Shara |
(6:55:47 PM) IhrFussel: [16:25:23] CTF servers in general are very popular, yours is not the first popular one ... |
| 18:29 |
Shara |
That's totally false |
| 18:29 |
Shara |
He literally made the game |
| 18:30 |
Shara |
Get your facts in order before you go all self-rightous please |
| 18:30 |
IhrFussel |
I saw other CTF servers before that were not dead..maybe not as popular as his but I also added that it#s most likely also the fact that he is well known in the community |
| 18:31 |
rubenwardy |
my server was offline for about 9 months due to my priorities being elsewhere |
| 18:31 |
Shara |
"yours is not the first popular one" Tell mehow his was not the first popular one, when he made it, ran it and it was popular? |
| 18:32 |
Shara |
Also this is not about you having another opinion, it's about you trying to ram your opinion down the throats of everyone else to call yourself superior |
| 18:32 |
IhrFussel |
I didn't see the CTF server in the list for a LONG time |
| 18:32 |
IhrFussel |
Not my fault if he took it offline |
| 18:32 |
Shara |
Mostly while making up things about how other people do things. |
| 18:33 |
IhrFussel |
Again I never called myself better than you, just "more fair" which seems to be what you dislike although it's technically true |
| 18:34 |
Shara |
What I don't like is how you're directing this nonsense toward people who are good admins and who do follow the rules. |
| 18:34 |
Shara |
You have said it yourself - the person you have issues with isn't on IRC and doesn't use the forum. |
| 18:36 |
Shara |
(Little note about fairness - you have a duty to preserve the rules for victims who get bullied and harrased by other players - if you refuse to ban and so let the abuse continue, you are certainly not fair at all) |
| 18:36 |
IhrFussel |
That's not the only server owner I mean..there are others but I simply say there definitely are server owners who treat their players badly and what I think a server owner needs to do to act fair ... you can disagree with what I say all day but my players show me that I am certainly onto something with my behavior...and I'm pretty sure they wish those certain owners would be more like me |
| 18:37 |
Shara |
Am I one of those owners? |
| 18:37 |
Shara |
Is ruben, is Tommy? |
| 18:38 |
IhrFussel |
I never mentioned any names cause that could potentially damage the reputation of the server which I don't try to do |
| 18:38 |
Shara |
Then please - stop talking our ears off about 'your' opinions |
| 18:39 |
IhrFussel |
Not just my opinions...it's simply the "fair" way to handle a server... you don't need to follow that way but then I won't call your server "fair" |
| 18:40 |
Shara |
The joke is that I don't have a single rule that goes against anything you have said |
| 18:40 |
Shara |
I also have many alternatives to banning |
| 18:40 |
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| 18:40 |
Shara |
Yet you keep insisting you are fairer :) |
| 18:42 |
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| 18:42 |
IhrFussel |
I didn't say that I am better than you... the thread was about the general server management not about a perticular server |
| 18:42 |
IhrFussel |
particular* |
| 18:42 |
Shara |
You directed those comments at me. You've since directed other, equally ridiculous ones, at other people. |
| 18:43 |
IhrFussel |
I also do NOT agree with lanniPowerup, I just used that thread to express my feelings about those certain server owners I really hate with a passion because they treat the userbase so horribly |
| 18:43 |
Shara |
Going to stop talking to you here though, because everyone else can read perfectly well and I'm sure they're as bored of this as I am |
| 18:45 |
IhrFussel |
I seem to have attacked quite a few feelings with my posts |
| 18:45 |
IhrFussel |
Or hurt a few feelings* |
| 18:52 |
Fixer |
make a mooooooooooove, serverlist is a ----show ;) |
| 18:54 |
Fixer |
sofar: maybe that's the reason? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7178#issuecomment-377766582 |
| 18:56 |
kcorK |
‮lil. my regular expressions were kind of too regular. it detected en.wikipedia.org/wiki as a git-like service |
| 18:59 |
* sofar |
wishes krock returned to FIFO mode again |
| 19:04 |
sofar |
Fixer: it's a bunch of kids in a sunday school I think |
| 19:05 |
rubenwardy |
Oooh |
| 19:05 |
rubenwardy |
I might backport damage reasons to CTF, makes the kill history graph better |
| 19:10 |
kcorK |
‮ sofar, this is FIFO mode.. for me at least. it's the visuals that make it appear that way |
| 19:10 |
kcorK |
‮I can write with the regular speed when using the RTL control character |
| 19:11 |
sofar |
I should just mute you for a bit then |
| 19:11 |
sofar |
:P |
| 19:12 |
kcorK |
‮awww no! but why? doesn't it look BEAUTIFUL? |
| 19:13 |
kcorK |
‮tomorrow it'll be normal again :D |
| 19:22 |
shivajiva |
tfft |
| 19:38 |
* lisac |
reads the IRC log. |
| 19:38 |
lisac |
yay drama! |
| 19:39 |
lisac |
<rubenwardy> I might backport damage reasons to CTF, makes the kill history graph better |
| 19:39 |
lisac |
DOTA2 has a nice system where people can see who did how much damage with what after fights |
| 19:39 |
kcorK |
‮0.4.17 backport? nah, we don't do that |
| 19:39 |
lisac |
it tells you what you did right/wrong, why did you die/win. |
| 19:40 |
lisac |
for example, if the enemy Necrophos did 1400 damage with Radiance, it's probably a good sign that next time you shouldn't be near him |
| 19:40 |
lisac |
though MT CTF is more action and less strategy |
| 19:41 |
lisac |
maybe a simple, 'You received 54% damage from <player name>' |
| 19:41 |
lisac |
after dying |
| 19:46 |
lisac |
lol https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/88rhma/rscience_is_not_doing_april_fools_jokes_instead/dwmpio2/ |
| 19:56 |
lisac |
Free Software Foundation is starting a crowdfunding campaign to buy Facebook: https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/free-software-foundation-announces-crowdfunding-campaign-to-buy-facebook |
| 19:57 |
kcorK |
‮it's not funny when they writ "April Fools" in the address |
| 20:02 |
Fixer |
totally forgot about that |
| 20:14 |
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| 20:15 |
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| 20:17 |
tumeninodes |
Happy Ea.... eh, nvm |
| 20:18 |
tumeninodes |
rabbit is on the menu today |
| 20:19 |
lisac |
tumeninodes: I've got a pet rabbit |
| 20:22 |
tumeninodes |
ahhh, an easier hunt for you then |
| 20:22 |
tumeninodes |
j/k |
| 20:23 |
tumeninodes |
I had 2 when I was about 11 but sadly found I was massively allergic to them. :( |
| 20:24 |
tumeninodes |
wild rabbits are very common here. there is one living under my shed currently |
| 20:24 |
* shivajiva |
hands tumeninodes 2 chocolate rabbits |
| 20:24 |
shivajiva |
eat those :) |
| 20:24 |
tumeninodes |
yum |
| 20:25 |
tumeninodes |
spent 2 hours finding those, day before yesterday |
| 20:26 |
tumeninodes |
I think lisac is currently plotting my demise |
| 20:26 |
shivajiva |
lol we did it today for the kids with clues to get their brains working |
| 20:27 |
tumeninodes |
nonsense, kids have no brains :P |
| 20:27 |
shivajiva |
trouble with that is you end up thinking in rhymes for hours after xD |
| 20:27 |
tumeninodes |
hahaha |
| 20:27 |
Shara |
wait, that's not normal? |
| 20:28 |
Shara |
Hi tumeninodes :) |
| 20:28 |
shivajiva |
at first it's damn hard but once you hit the spot it's hard to stop |
| 20:28 |
tumeninodes |
The last year of my kids being into Easter I said "I spy with my little eye some eggs... go find them. Then I went inside :D |
| 20:28 |
tumeninodes |
Hi Shara |
| 20:30 |
tumeninodes |
This is the first year they are off with their friends, so I figured I'd come bother people here |
| 20:30 |
Shara |
I'm sure we can handle it :) |
| 20:31 |
shivajiva |
nice :) |
| 20:31 |
tumeninodes |
good, cuz I can't stand myself :D |
| 20:32 |
shivajiva |
perfectly normal =) |
| 20:32 |
tumeninodes |
that's what I keep telling people |
| 20:33 |
tumeninodes |
so who's revamping the tools for MTG? |
| 20:35 |
tumeninodes |
hearty response..., that's a good sign |
| 20:35 |
Shara |
What's that you said? You're volunteering?! |
| 20:35 |
Shara |
How wonderful! |
| 20:35 |
shivajiva |
^ |
| 20:35 |
tumeninodes |
If I do, there will be no more diamond tools |
| 20:36 |
tumeninodes |
or gold for that matter too |
| 20:36 |
Shara |
Hah, well, yes, I'd not have those either |
| 20:36 |
Shara |
Or those |
| 20:36 |
tumeninodes |
those are currency |
| 20:36 |
Shara |
Or this silly tree punching |
| 20:36 |
tumeninodes |
I mentioned a better way for that |
| 20:36 |
* Shara |
quickly hides before being lynched by other MTG devs |
| 20:37 |
tumeninodes |
add stones randomly through mapgen |
| 20:37 |
tumeninodes |
fashion stone ax with a stick, a stone, and string |
| 20:37 |
Shara |
But it's so ugly |
| 20:37 |
Shara |
I've never yet seen stones lying around the map that don't look ugly |
| 20:38 |
tumeninodes |
Someone did them as small cubes, I thought looked pretty cool |
| 20:38 |
Shara |
But they need to be everywhere |
| 20:38 |
tumeninodes |
meh, not really |
| 20:38 |
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| 20:38 |
Shara |
And on servers... not good to start tool progression with a non-renewable resource |
| 20:39 |
Shara |
I played on one server that did it... had to walk for a really long time before I could make a tool because the players that came first had cleared them away |
| 20:39 |
tumeninodes |
Hmmm I see |
| 20:40 |
Shara |
I always figured that why it starts on wood anyway |
| 20:41 |
tumeninodes |
what if a stick, some string, and a stone were provided with on spawn |
| 20:41 |
tumeninodes |
wait, that's dumb too |
| 20:42 |
Shara |
especially if you drop things when dying |
| 20:42 |
tumeninodes |
well in that case, ctf would have a ton of those at spawn, from what I gather :P |
| 20:44 |
tumeninodes |
I wonder if it's possible to have those 3 things generate near the player when they spawn in? |
| 20:45 |
tumeninodes |
so they can craft a stone ax to start off. It makes more sense than chopping a tree with your hand |
| 20:45 |
Shara |
what if they then die and lose the axe? |
| 20:46 |
tumeninodes |
well, when you die, you don;t respawn without your hand, do you? |
| 20:46 |
Shara |
yea, but then how do they make a new axe? |
| 20:47 |
tumeninodes |
the 3 pieces are either generated next to the player on spawn or they spawn with them |
| 20:47 |
Shara |
So every time they spawn more random thigns appear? |
| 20:47 |
Shara |
things* |
| 20:48 |
tumeninodes |
just one stick, one stone, and one piece of string |
| 20:48 |
tumeninodes |
close enough they can pick them up and craft their first ax |
| 20:49 |
Shara |
May as well just put the items in their inventory after death then and have done |
| 20:49 |
tumeninodes |
yes. the point is, either way, it makes more sense than using your hand to cut trees |
| 20:50 |
Shara |
Well, pretty much anything would |
| 20:50 |
tumeninodes |
one day, were gonna see an epidemic of kids with broken hands IRL... and we'll be partly to blame :D |
| 20:51 |
tumeninodes |
Well, "I" think it makes sense... therefore it should just be so. |
| 20:52 |
paramat |
messy, better to craft first tools from nodes |
| 20:52 |
tumeninodes |
what part is messy? |
| 20:53 |
tumeninodes |
it's simply one aspect to get started, so one can progress on to do just that |
| 20:53 |
paramat |
your suggestion (sorry) |
| 20:53 |
Shara |
Just having stuff appear randomly is... well, yes, messy by definition. |
| 20:55 |
tumeninodes |
the idea of having them gen on spawn was a longshot idea |
| 20:55 |
Shara |
It's a problem that has been annoying me for a while, and not just for MTG as you know |
| 20:55 |
tumeninodes |
but to at least have one of those 3 items to start would not be messy |
| 20:55 |
paramat |
tree nodes represent branches too, so it can be thought of as using your hands to break off a branch from a tree, even though this leads to digging trunks |
| 20:55 |
Shara |
paramat: Have you checked how I'm handling this on HW? |
| 20:56 |
paramat |
then the branch you have is used to hack at some stone, break some bits off, to make first stone tools. there's a rough logic there |
| 20:56 |
Shara |
I'm making leaves crafting to sticks, on the reasoning that holding leaves together like that means you have a branch, and stripping the branch gives you a stick |
| 20:56 |
Fixer |
"other MTG devs" that_gif_with_travolta.gif |
| 20:56 |
Shara |
craftable* |
| 20:56 |
paramat |
oh not yet |
| 20:56 |
tumeninodes |
the leaves idea makes sense |
| 20:57 |
paramat |
leaves to sticks, good idea |
| 20:57 |
Shara |
I don't think smacking a stone with a stick makes great sense to get stone though |
| 20:57 |
tumeninodes |
but then the "chipping away at stone with wood"... 0_o |
| 20:57 |
tumeninodes |
chipping a stone with a stone makes more sense |
| 20:58 |
tumeninodes |
thanks Fixer, now I have the BeeGees stuck in my head |
| 20:58 |
Shara |
Yes, you would use knapping, stone on stone, to make early stone tools |
| 20:59 |
Shara |
I've been thinking about things like loose stones on river beds, or in certain areas that would be easier to collect than solid stone |
| 20:59 |
paramat |
well, assume some stone is near-fragmented, use stick to break off bits. there has to be some way to obtain the first stone, and a hefty stick makes more sense than using your hand |
| 20:59 |
tumeninodes |
yes, that is what I was trying to get at |
| 21:00 |
Shara |
But I don't want some random stone item being placed all over the place |
| 21:00 |
Shara |
I'd instead want to consider a looser stone as an ore of sorts |
| 21:00 |
paramat |
but then, it's back to the loose stones problem, they look ugly and are few in number |
| 21:01 |
Shara |
paramat: not if it's basically treated like a distinct stone node that can take the place of a normal one, and you have clusters of it |
| 21:01 |
Shara |
Then it could actually look nice as well |
| 21:01 |
tumeninodes |
oh thank God |
| 21:01 |
Shara |
heh |
| 21:02 |
Shara |
But this won't help MTG's tool mess anyway |
| 21:02 |
tumeninodes |
I was referring to Krock |
| 21:02 |
paramat |
so by not taking it too literally, and considering the issues, the current MTG way has a kind of logic to it. it's not meant to be realistic |
| 21:02 |
Krock |
lol. you're safe again, tumeninodes |
| 21:02 |
tumeninodes |
haha |
| 21:02 |
paramat |
ah yes, gravel is loose stones as nodes, could have larger pieces |
| 21:03 |
paramat |
good idea |
| 21:03 |
shivajiva |
stone>leaves>branch>axe>wood seems natural |
| 21:03 |
tumeninodes |
gravel... that's true actually |
| 21:03 |
Shara |
It's kind of what I'm playing with as an idea for HW anyway |
| 21:04 |
tumeninodes |
could have gravel drop usable stones, as well as flint, randomly |
| 21:04 |
shivajiva |
gets round having stones lying around |
| 21:04 |
tumeninodes |
yay progress |
| 21:05 |
paramat |
then you can start with stone tools and simplify, no need for wooden tools |
| 21:05 |
tumeninodes |
wait???! was something actually accomplished here? |
| 21:05 |
Shara |
And nice, visual_scale actually works just like I hoped it would for plantlike_rooted nodes |
| 21:06 |
Shara |
Was half expecting it would make the nodes the plant is in look bigger too :) |
| 21:06 |
shivajiva |
unless you need knitting needles paramat |
| 21:06 |
tumeninodes |
I need to step back and take this all in... brb |
| 21:06 |
tumeninodes |
:D |
| 21:20 |
tumeninodes |
wood "could" still be used in tools. The stone ax as mentioned. A sword but, using obsidian for the blades as documented in history |
| 21:20 |
tumeninodes |
but I have always felt obsidian should be done as the ores are done |
| 21:21 |
tumeninodes |
have stone drop obsidian shards on a random/chance level |
| 21:22 |
tumeninodes |
or simply do obsidian ore |
| 21:58 |
longerstaff13 |
o/ |
| 22:05 |
lisac |
hmm what could we do to make MT combat better? |
| 22:22 |
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| 22:23 |
longerstaff13-m |
Yay |
