| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:25 |
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ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub |
| 00:55 |
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Grandolf_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 01:40 |
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lhofhansl joined #minetest-hub |
| 01:50 |
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CalebDavis joined #minetest-hub |
| 02:08 |
ThomasMonroe |
what are the bandwidth requirements for running a server? |
| 02:13 |
ThomasMonroe |
celeron55, ^ |
| 02:13 |
sofar |
not much |
| 02:13 |
ThomasMonroe |
ah ok thanks sofar |
| 02:13 |
sofar |
depends heavily on the gameplay type though |
| 02:14 |
ThomasMonroe |
yeah that is true |
| 02:14 |
sofar |
1mbit is probably already fine for small servers |
| 02:14 |
sofar |
i can get some stats from my server, but they are probably not entirely relevant since it's a very custom game |
| 02:15 |
ThomasMonroe |
so a 3.5Ghz quad should suffice XD |
| 02:16 |
sofar |
cpu speed is almost irrelevant |
| 02:16 |
sofar |
as long as it's not an arm processor. i do work for Intel :p |
| 02:16 |
ThomasMonroe |
:P |
| 02:18 |
benrob0329 |
sofar: minetest is #sponsored by Intel, indirectly anyways :P |
| 02:19 |
sofar |
in a way, yes |
| 02:20 |
ThomasMonroe |
I hate calling myself a contributor because i can't "contribute" as in programming, but I do know how to test and give suggestions as how to make things better :/ |
| 02:20 |
sofar |
the question is, do they know? :p |
| 02:20 |
ThomasMonroe |
not that I can't program, just not in c++ |
| 02:21 |
sofar |
everyone contributes in their own capacity |
| 02:21 |
ThomasMonroe |
true, true.. |
| 02:21 |
sofar |
just look at my server... check out the puzzles that some people made |
| 02:22 |
sofar |
absolutely talented builders |
| 02:22 |
|
behalebabo joined #minetest-hub |
| 02:22 |
ThomasMonroe |
which one is that one? |
| 02:22 |
ThomasMonroe |
hey behalebabo |
| 02:22 |
sofar |
inside the box |
| 02:22 |
behalebabo |
hello |
| 02:23 |
ThomasMonroe |
thx i'll check it out |
| 02:23 |
benrob0329 |
It's a great server, makes me want to play Minetest more :P |
| 03:54 |
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ssieb joined #minetest-hub |
| 04:10 |
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paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 06:13 |
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nerzhul joined #minetest-hub |
| 07:10 |
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lisac joined #minetest-hub |
| 07:56 |
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Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 09:04 |
Calinou |
<sofar> cpu speed is almost irrelevant |
| 09:05 |
Calinou |
I'd say it's pretty relevant, you need decent single-thread performance |
| 09:05 |
Calinou |
moreover, prefer hosting on bare metal rather than in a VM |
| 09:05 |
Calinou |
this is especially true if you increase the server step rate |
| 09:06 |
Calinou |
you'll also need a decent amount of RAM if you plan to use PostgreSQL or Redis, 4 GB should be enough |
| 09:06 |
Calinou |
(that is, if you have 10+ players) |
| 09:06 |
Calinou |
(and you have other things running on the server) |
| 09:06 |
Calinou |
check out the settings I use on my server: https://gist.github.com/Calinou/683cb0748efe867be6e18f86f206a6b7 |
| 09:36 |
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Darcidride joined #minetest-hub |
| 09:56 |
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paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:29 |
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Fixer joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:33 |
nerzhul |
Calinou, 2GB is sufficient for pg with 1 GB shared_buffer |
| 10:34 |
nerzhul |
1GB can be sufficient too, i don't think index is more than 500 MB |
| 10:43 |
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LazyJ joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:53 |
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Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:03 |
Megaf |
Hi all |
| 11:03 |
Megaf |
root aluminium:/home/reglnx# free -m |
| 11:03 |
Megaf |
total used free shared buff/cache available |
| 11:03 |
Megaf |
Mem: 3692 3535 97 1 59 8 |
| 11:04 |
Megaf |
Should I be worried? :) |
| 11:05 |
rdococ |
you know what, im sick of coming up with stupid excuses not to format this hard drive and install linux. |
| 11:05 |
rdococ |
Gonna finally do so now. |
| 11:15 |
Megaf |
rdococ, meh, stick to windows, windows is great |
| 11:15 |
Megaf |
Linux sucks man |
| 11:19 |
rdococ |
Nah. |
| 11:19 |
Megaf |
rdococ, whatever you do, dont use Ubuntu |
| 11:19 |
rdococ |
Im not gonna |
| 11:20 |
rdococ |
Figuring out how to disable secure boot |
| 11:20 |
Megaf |
As I been saying for several years, I rather run Windows Vista in a Microsoft Virtual PC VM running on Windows ME than run Ubuntu |
| 11:20 |
rdococ |
Lol |
| 11:20 |
red-001 |
one of these days ubuntu will finally figure out how to be an OS |
| 11:21 |
red-001 |
but that day is not today |
| 11:21 |
rdococ |
Um... |
| 11:22 |
Megaf |
And with mother Linux Distros you might not even need to disable Secure Boot |
| 11:22 |
rdococ |
Im trying to install debian |
| 11:23 |
Megaf |
atta boy! |
| 11:23 |
Megaf |
Great choice |
| 11:23 |
Megaf |
# cat /etc/debian_version |
| 11:23 |
Megaf |
buster/sid |
| 11:23 |
rdococ |
But when i clicked to resume the installation process, the screen says that 'windows failed to start'. Wat. |
| 11:23 |
Krock |
if you don't want to run ubuntu, you can still try Mint or X/L/Kubuntu :P |
| 11:24 |
Megaf |
Resume instalation? Is this a thing? |
| 11:24 |
Megaf |
Where do you see that? |
| 11:24 |
rdococ |
Idk... |
| 11:24 |
red-001 |
virtual box is confusing me, whats "windows 2016"? |
| 11:24 |
rdococ |
I installed the .iso |
| 11:24 |
Megaf |
red-001, great question, just noticed that too |
| 11:25 |
red-001 |
oh it must be the server version |
| 11:25 |
Megaf |
Windows 10 Creators Update or Windows Server 2016 |
| 11:25 |
red-001 |
and they dropped the server part in thier infinate wisdom |
| 11:25 |
rdococ |
lol |
| 11:25 |
Megaf |
red-001, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2016 |
| 11:26 |
* red-001 |
checks if you can setup a reactos dev enviroment on linux |
| 11:26 |
rdococ |
gah. |
| 11:27 |
Megaf |
Crazy thing is that VirtualBox on Linux host uses Hyper-V to run Windows Guests |
| 11:28 |
red-001 |
isn't that the MS hypervisor? |
| 11:28 |
Megaf |
I never knew Linux could be a Hyper-V host |
| 11:28 |
Megaf |
red-001, precisely |
| 11:28 |
rdococ |
Lol |
| 11:29 |
Megaf |
So I just created two VMs, one for Debian and other for Windows 10 |
| 11:29 |
Megaf |
the Debian one is KVM |
| 11:29 |
Megaf |
the Windows 10 is Hyper-V |
| 11:29 |
rdococ |
gah |
| 11:29 |
red-001 |
well I guess it doesn't matter that much to hypervisors, don't they run at a higher level then the OS? |
| 11:29 |
rdococ |
i cant install debian on it? |
| 11:30 |
Megaf |
red-001, nope, hyperversor is as low as the kernel |
| 11:30 |
Megaf |
if not lower |
| 11:31 |
Megaf |
rdococ, what do you mean? |
| 11:31 |
rdococ |
Nvm |
| 11:31 |
Krock |
make sure that your username contains "user" in Windows (8.1). Taskhost will love it |
| 11:32 |
red-001 |
I meant higher as in closer to the CPU (yes I know thats not the typical terminology) |
| 11:32 |
|
atorian37 joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:33 |
rdococ |
oh duh |
| 11:34 |
rdococ |
this isnt amd |
| 11:34 |
rdococ |
Lol |
| 11:34 |
Megaf |
rdococ, if it is 64 bit you use amd64 version |
| 11:34 |
Megaf |
because 64 bit intel uses was created by AMD |
| 11:35 |
rdococ |
but that didnt work and im sure this is 64bit |
| 11:35 |
Megaf |
EMT64 is the Intel's version I think, but is deprecated |
| 11:35 |
Megaf |
rdococ, man, details |
| 11:35 |
Megaf |
what are you trying to do, and how |
| 11:35 |
rdococ |
Hold om |
| 11:36 |
rdococ |
Ik u need detaila |
| 11:37 |
rdococ |
My spelling on a tablet is atrocious |
| 11:38 |
rdococ |
okay, now its just my cursor on a blank screen. |
| 11:39 |
Megaf |
rdococ, Are you using a DVD? Flash drive? What version of Debian? What CPU you have? Is it EFI? |
| 11:39 |
rdococ |
um |
| 11:39 |
Megaf |
If USB, how did you put Debian there? |
| 11:39 |
rdococ |
Im using an .iso |
| 11:39 |
rdococ |
Its debian 9 |
| 11:39 |
rdococ |
Yes, the laptop has EFI |
| 11:39 |
rdococ |
I think |
| 11:40 |
Megaf |
rdococ, do you want to wipe the whole disk? |
| 11:40 |
rdococ |
Secure boot is on, couldnt disable it |
| 11:40 |
rdococ |
Yes |
| 11:40 |
Megaf |
are you using the full DVD or some sort of LiveCD? |
| 11:41 |
rdococ |
the one that needs an internet connection |
| 11:41 |
rdococ |
during installation |
| 11:41 |
rdococ |
here |
| 11:41 |
Megaf |
netinstal? |
| 11:41 |
rdococ |
Ye |
| 11:41 |
rdococ |
\g2ldr.mbr |
| 11:42 |
Megaf |
ok, do you know if UEFI mode is enabled? |
| 11:42 |
rdococ |
Yes |
| 11:42 |
rdococ |
ugh,the computer turned itself off before I could type the message |
| 11:49 |
|
Jordach joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:49 |
Megaf |
Hi Jordach |
| 11:59 |
rdococ |
Change of plan. Im going back to my other laptop. For some reason, its purring. |
| 12:01 |
Megaf |
Just dont use KDE on Debian |
| 12:01 |
Megaf |
KDE is pretty broken |
| 12:01 |
Megaf |
MATE works perfect, and GNOME works pretty ok too |
| 12:02 |
Calinou |
hi |
| 12:02 |
Megaf |
Hi Calinou |
| 12:02 |
Calinou |
red-001: Windows 2016 is server, indeed |
| 12:02 |
Calinou |
the Creators Update was released in 2017, by the way |
| 12:03 |
Megaf |
"The screen locker is broken and unlocking is not possible anymore. In order to unlock switch to a virtual terminal (e.g. Ctrl+atl+F2), log in and execute the command: loginctl unlock-sessions Afterwards switch back to the running session (Ctrl+Alt+F7). |
| 12:04 |
Megaf |
Message I get in my Debian KDE.... |
| 12:04 |
rdococ |
Lol |
| 12:04 |
Megaf |
how do I send a ctrl alt f2 in vbox? |
| 12:06 |
Megaf |
that was easy enough |
| 12:06 |
Megaf |
the special key + F2 |
| 12:07 |
rdococ |
Gah, same error on this lap |
| 12:08 |
Megaf |
what error!? |
| 12:08 |
rdococ |
Ugh |
| 12:08 |
rdococ |
Something about required files not being there |
| 12:09 |
Megaf |
your ISO must be corrupted then |
| 12:09 |
Megaf |
or the cdrom |
| 12:09 |
rdococ |
I literally just downloaded it, lol |
| 12:12 |
rdococ |
Oh, yay, IE is frozen downloading the firefox installer, even tho its at 100%... |
| 12:13 |
rdococ |
Um... nvm? |
| 12:14 |
|
IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:15 |
Megaf |
The song Mother by Pink Floyd always gets me, right in the feelings |
| 12:15 |
IhrFussel |
What's with the Ubuntu hate? Is it just the DE? I don't see why Ubuntu is "bad" I use it on my dedi where my MT server runs and it never did anything unexpected + I use Xubuntu on my home PC for years now and the only time it crashed was when my HDD failed |
| 12:16 |
LazyJ |
The luxury of having so many distros to choose from. |
| 12:17 |
red-001 |
bad drivers for graphic cards in my case |
| 12:17 |
IhrFussel |
Ubuntu is in ANY case more stable than Windows and that's a fact |
| 12:17 |
red-001 |
and updates messing up the system |
| 12:18 |
IhrFussel |
Maybe if your graphic card is too new...My PC uses the on-board chip and I never experienced such things |
| 12:18 |
LazyJ |
I gave up on distro hopping years ago. I need my computer to get work done, not for me to spend my time trying to get my computer to work. |
| 12:19 |
LazyJ |
Ubuntu fit that need well enough for me so I stuck with it. |
| 12:19 |
LazyJ |
If I were more techy and had more time I might indulge in the finer points of distros and hardware. |
| 12:19 |
Megaf |
Oh, Hi LazyJ |
| 12:20 |
LazyJ |
That may be the case for other folks too. They just find something that works for them and stick with it and accept its quirks. |
| 12:20 |
IhrFussel |
I mean the only point IMO where Windows wins is available drivers/libraries/support for almost any device |
| 12:20 |
LazyJ |
Howdy Megaf ;) |
| 12:20 |
Megaf |
Shara, I was crying moments ago =/ |
| 12:20 |
rdococ |
Google > Microsoft, in any case. |
| 12:21 |
Megaf |
rdococ, You are mistaken |
| 12:21 |
Megaf |
pretty much so |
| 12:21 |
Megaf |
Microsoft controls the hardware industry |
| 12:21 |
rdococ |
Ya think? |
| 12:21 |
Megaf |
man, how many brands you see selling machines with Linux |
| 12:21 |
rdococ |
I meant in terms of which one I generally prefer, lol. |
| 12:21 |
Megaf |
or with AMD for that matter |
| 12:22 |
Megaf |
Intel and Microsoft pay good money to manufactures so they keep to the monopoly |
| 12:22 |
IhrFussel |
Megaf, you do know that 97% of all servers use Linux? |
| 12:22 |
IhrFussel |
MS is only strong in the desktop market, not on servers |
| 12:22 |
Megaf |
IhrFussel, I'm not sure about that number, and don't get me wrong, I'm one of the biggest Linux suporters |
| 12:23 |
IhrFussel |
Android uses Linux, almost any router uses Linux, most web servers use Linux ... Linux is clearly the winner outside of desktop PCs |
| 12:24 |
Megaf |
the kernel that is |
| 12:24 |
Megaf |
the dominant OS is Windows |
| 12:25 |
Megaf |
a Linux based OS on a smartphone or router or even a TV has little to no resemblance to a Linux based Desktop OS |
| 12:25 |
Megaf |
they dont even use X |
| 12:25 |
Megaf |
they came up with other graphical servers |
| 12:25 |
Megaf |
and Im sure they dont use Pulse either |
| 12:26 |
Megaf |
Whats the stack that ChromeOS uses anyway? |
| 12:26 |
LazyJ |
If manufacturers and software companies want to make a profit (to pay employees and such), they have to go where the money is. Microsoft dominates the desktop market, that's where the money is. |
| 12:27 |
rdococ |
I prefer Google to Microsoft, but I prefer Microsoft to Apple. |
| 12:28 |
* LazyJ |
scratches his head wondering if this is either the umpteenth or hunnerd-sumpthin time this same discussion has been had in this channel. |
| 12:28 |
Megaf |
LazyJ, this discussion is a little different tho |
| 12:28 |
IhrFussel |
Megaf, W3Cook May 2015 98.3% 96.6% 1.7 1.7% (total marketshare, linux, FreeBSD, Windows) |
| 12:29 |
LazyJ |
Ok, I'll throw a cat in the middle of the pigeons: Donuts are far superior to bagels. :0)- |
| 12:29 |
Calinou |
Google has a much better track record of contributing to open source software |
| 12:29 |
Calinou |
also, most of their products are Linux-friendly (but certainly not all) |
| 12:30 |
Calinou |
while it's still a minority thing for Microsoft |
| 12:30 |
Megaf |
LazyJ, I prefer sourdough bread |
| 12:30 |
LazyJ |
:p |
| 12:30 |
IhrFussel |
Different surveys show different shares but that depends on a lot of things |
| 12:30 |
Megaf |
Calinou, now a days Google has turned his back to Linux desktop mostly |
| 12:30 |
Megaf |
Google has an awesome App portifolio for Linux |
| 12:31 |
Megaf |
Google Talk, Picasa, Earth, Sketch Up, |
| 12:31 |
Calinou |
what about Hangouts? |
| 12:31 |
Megaf |
But we never had a Drive sync for example |
| 12:31 |
Calinou |
Drive? :P |
| 12:31 |
Megaf |
Do we? |
| 12:32 |
Calinou |
Earth/Picasa/Sketch Up are "legacy" by now |
| 12:32 |
Megaf |
Hangouts is Chrome App, doesnt count |
| 12:32 |
Calinou |
Sketchup isn't even owned by Google anymore, too |
| 12:32 |
rdococ |
Self-hard driving cars ;) |
| 12:32 |
Calinou |
(and no longer has a Linux version, IIRC) |
| 12:32 |
Calinou |
Megaf: most Google employees use Macs, IIRC |
| 12:32 |
Calinou |
I'm not sure if they can choose |
| 12:42 |
rdococ |
Lol |
| 12:42 |
rdococ |
Id like someone to make a game which uses affine texture mapping on purpose for effect |
| 12:46 |
|
Aerozoic joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:47 |
LazyJ |
What are the prospects of adding a skins section to the forums or something like wwww.minecraftskins.com for MT? |
| 12:48 |
Megaf |
we need a default standard de-facto default built in skin support first |
| 12:48 |
Megaf |
we need to define standards |
| 12:48 |
LazyJ |
Every time a player requests a custom skin I have to tell them to go to Minecraft. |
| 12:48 |
Megaf |
we need to know first if we are building a game, a core or an engine |
| 12:48 |
Megaf |
Minetest is like Linux |
| 12:48 |
Megaf |
the most confusing thing ever |
| 12:49 |
LazyJ |
Heh. |
| 12:49 |
Megaf |
it's a piece of code that alone does nothing |
| 12:49 |
Megaf |
it has all the code to do everything, yet does nothing |
| 12:50 |
LazyJ |
Sounds like a politician. :)- |
| 12:50 |
Megaf |
hah |
| 12:50 |
Megaf |
well observed |
| 12:50 |
LazyJ |
Yeah, MT's user friendliness needs rehab. |
| 12:50 |
Megaf |
has anyone notice that Megaf Server has been turned off for like two months? |
| 12:50 |
Megaf |
=/ |
| 12:51 |
* LazyJ |
raises his hand |
| 12:51 |
LazyJ |
Don't fret it, Megaf. Like wine, some things get better with age and looking after. |
| 12:51 |
Megaf |
I waiting for the final release of 0.4.17 to do an overhaul in the server |
| 12:51 |
Shara |
LazyJ: use a mod that lets you add skins, then tell the player to send you them? |
| 12:52 |
LazyJ |
I caught a glimpse of nerzuhl saying sometime in late November/early December for 0.4.17 |
| 12:52 |
Megaf |
LazyJ, there is a voting going on in GitHub for that |
| 12:53 |
Megaf |
I voted for December |
| 12:53 |
LazyJ |
Shara, that's the setup I have but it would be nice not to have to refer players back to Minecraft stuff for Minetest things. |
| 12:53 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:54 |
Calinou |
<rdococ> Id like someone to make a game which uses affine texture mapping on purpose for effect |
| 12:54 |
Calinou |
you should work at Sega Saturn |
| 12:55 |
Shara |
Why refer them to minecraft at all? |
| 12:55 |
LazyJ |
www.minecraftskins.com also has a built-in skin editor. That is something that would be abused but that could be mitigated by requiring the skins to be manually uploaded by the server's admins. They could review the skin and make the call to accept or deny. |
| 12:56 |
Calinou |
I'd just add premade skin parts and let players choose between them |
| 12:57 |
Calinou |
it looks more consistent this way (no offensive or ugly skins) |
| 12:57 |
Aerozoic |
dafuq? 4.17? What happened to 5.0? |
| 12:57 |
LazyJ |
Why refer them to Minecraft for skins? Because Minetest doesn't have the selection, quality, or easy to refer to place to look. |
| 12:57 |
Calinou |
Aerozoic: if you compile the stable-0.4 branch from GitHub, it will be named 0.4.17 but it acts exactly like 0.4.16 |
| 12:58 |
Calinou |
this is why my server reports as 0.4.17 |
| 12:58 |
LazyJ |
The past MT skin attempts have been rather mixed in success and upkeep. |
| 12:58 |
Shara |
LazyJ: You still need to actually point them at MC though. You can simply say if they send you something you will add it. |
| 12:58 |
Shara |
still don't need* |
| 12:58 |
Shara |
It's really down to them if they look online for a ready-made skin or attempt to create their own |
| 12:59 |
LazyJ |
What to tell them when they ask were to get skins? |
| 12:59 |
Calinou |
adding skins to a large, popular server gets pretty tiring over time, I can guess |
| 12:59 |
Calinou |
skin composition can be done from the game itself by players, using a GUI or commands |
| 12:59 |
Shara |
Calinou: Yes. I refuse to add any to RC since it has a couple of hundred choices or so. |
| 12:59 |
Shara |
But I will sometimes add skins at request on DL, since the selection there is very small |
| 13:00 |
LazyJ |
The gist of my original question was to have an easy, central place for MT players to peruse MT skins. |
| 13:00 |
Shara |
Though I'll only do it if the player has been around for a while. |
| 13:00 |
Calinou |
we already have a skin database |
| 13:00 |
Calinou |
(is it still up?) |
| 13:00 |
Shara |
LazyJ: It would be nice, it's just that someone actually needs to make an maintain it. |
| 13:00 |
Calinou |
yes: http://minetest.fensta.bplaced.net/ |
| 13:00 |
LazyJ |
MT has Minecraft textures in the forums but the topic of skins is bare (pun). |
| 13:01 |
Calinou |
reminds me, I should make myself a nice skin :P |
| 13:01 |
Shara |
That page would be nice if it could display more at once. |
| 13:02 |
LazyJ |
Zeg9 had a skin mod that included a script that converted the skin map into an image that represented what the avatar would look like in png format that was used to display the selection in the mod. |
| 13:03 |
LazyJ |
I think it was Zeg9... or zeg-something. Years ago, faded in memory. |
| 13:03 |
Krock |
wasn't there also a topic somewhere you could show the skins? |
| 13:03 |
Krock |
LazyJ, that script is still used in skinsdb |
| 13:04 |
LazyJ |
Upload a skin to the forum, a script automatically runs to generate a preview, click on the submit botton to post. |
| 13:04 |
Krock |
or no.. in the old u_skinsdb mod, but it was removed because the skin database generates them automatically |
| 13:05 |
LazyJ |
Well, I'm in no position to make it happen so, like most other suggestions, it won't. |
| 13:06 |
Shara |
Problem with the mod is that you ended up with hundreds of skins, many of which didn't have enough difference to justify being included |
| 13:06 |
* LazyJ |
shrugs |
| 13:07 |
Shara |
LazyJ: There's lots of things I wish I could just make happen as well |
| 13:07 |
LazyJ |
If it weren't for that dang J.O.B. thing and those pesky bills that always want more money. :p |
| 13:08 |
Shara |
:P |
| 13:13 |
Calinou |
I'd work on a skin database thing for fun, but no time :( |
| 13:13 |
Calinou |
the one I posted above is getting a bit dated |
| 13:36 |
Fixer |
scrolled two pages, tl;dr minetest sucks |
| 13:36 |
Fixer |
(c) |
| 13:45 |
paramat |
not all skins are going to be good obviously, MC is likely like that too |
| 13:47 |
Krock |
no big deal if there's a voting system. taking the best voted ones and problem solved |
| 13:47 |
Krock |
that's what the skin database really needs |
| 13:48 |
LazyJ |
Voting system or tracking which skins are downloaded the most and putting them ahead of the others. |
| 13:48 |
Calinou |
sure, dealing with abusive votes isn't easy though |
| 13:48 |
Calinou |
(but it can be done) |
| 14:05 |
LazyJ |
Carzy idea - MT has a team of code devs, why not an art team that focuses on textures and skins? |
| 14:05 |
LazyJ |
*Crazy idea... |
| 14:07 |
* Jordach |
looks at Solar Plains |
| 14:07 |
* Jordach |
wonders why this doesn't occur |
| 15:26 |
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| 15:48 |
Fixer |
LazyJ: minetest_game needs much more contributors, para-mat is not enough to do all work |
| 15:49 |
Shara |
Fixer: MTG needs a list of things people can work on |
| 15:50 |
LazyJ |
Spitting in the wind is not very good target practice. A list of attainable goals would help, indeed. |
| 15:50 |
Shara |
There is no direction to help contributors |
| 15:50 |
Shara |
But now it seems they want to add a bows mod... even though there is nothing to shoot at... |
| 15:50 |
LazyJ |
Of course there would need to be contributors, but a list would be a starting point. |
| 15:51 |
paramat |
heh i hadn't thought about lack of things to shoot =) |
| 15:51 |
Shara |
I've already said I'd be happy to try and help with it - but I'm not willing to work on things when I don't even know if the concept would be approved |
| 15:51 |
Shara |
paramat: MTG should not accept content that serves no purpose within MTG |
| 15:51 |
LazyJ |
paramat does what he can, trying to appease at least two committees: fellow devs and the MT community. |
| 15:52 |
Shara |
The moment you add mobs or work out some other use for shooting, it would be great to have bows |
| 15:52 |
Shara |
Until then, it's just adding it for the sake of it |
| 15:52 |
paramat |
ah, they're usable for pvp |
| 15:52 |
paramat |
otherwise, why have swords? |
| 15:53 |
Shara |
PVP means playing with people, and generally means adding other mods anyway |
| 15:55 |
paramat |
if you have an idea, open an issue to gauge devs support. following issues gives an idea of the things to work on |
| 15:55 |
Shara |
I just wish MTG would have clear direction. |
| 15:55 |
LazyJ |
Minecraft has fishing poles and fish. Works for both singleplayer and multi-player. Would also put something in the bigger bodies of water in MT. |
| 15:55 |
Shara |
That could be nice to have |
| 15:56 |
LazyJ |
The redneck in me says there are bottle to place on fences and shoot at. |
| 15:56 |
Shara |
There's already mods that add fishing though |
| 15:56 |
LazyJ |
Aye, but as an addition to MTG. |
| 15:56 |
paramat |
you can play with other people in vanilla MTG, also ... swords |
| 15:56 |
Shara |
There's mods adding lots of things. |
| 15:56 |
Shara |
But which of those does MTG want? |
| 15:57 |
LazyJ |
Swords in vanilla MT singleplayer are machete's for whacking leaves. |
| 15:57 |
Shara |
That ^ |
| 15:57 |
LazyJ |
*machetes for... |
| 15:57 |
Shara |
paramat: to be fully honest, I have wondered why MTG has swords |
| 15:58 |
LazyJ |
Because Minecraft has swords. |
| 15:58 |
LazyJ |
Swords could be pulled out and left for armor mods. |
| 15:58 |
Shara |
They are there ow and mods have been made to build on the fact that they are there, so removing them would obviously be wrong. |
| 15:58 |
Shara |
But they are mostly pointless. |
| 15:58 |
LazyJ |
The ax could server for leaf harvesting. |
| 15:58 |
LazyJ |
Or just a super karate-leaf-chopping wield hand. |
| 16:00 |
LazyJ |
When selecting MTG, a pop-up/hover message could state that it is a starting point, mods will have to be added to compliment. |
| 16:00 |
LazyJ |
Or maybe an info tab on the main menu explaining such with where to find mods to add. |
| 16:01 |
paramat |
'pointless' swords? ;] |
| 16:01 |
Shara |
:D |
| 16:01 |
Shara |
Actually, they do look kinda blunt :P |
| 16:02 |
LazyJ |
So many servers are based on MTG that changing it is tricky. |
| 16:02 |
paramat |
pvp is enough reason for swords |
| 16:02 |
LazyJ |
As for a better singleplayer experience, that's where a separate sub-game should fill the need. |
| 16:02 |
LazyJ |
Or a functioning mod store. |
| 16:03 |
LazyJ |
All stuff that's been hashed through time and time again. |
| 16:03 |
Shara |
I'm pretty sure the things I'd like to do for MTG would not get support anyway. |
| 16:04 |
LazyJ |
Engine development and game development sort of go hand-in-hand, don't they? I mean, you can't do things in the game if the engine doesn't support it and how will the engine devs know what to create if there is no game needing it? |
| 16:05 |
LazyJ |
Chicken and the egg. |
| 16:13 |
Fixer |
Shara: list is already there somewhere in issues, but dev process is too closed for outsiders |
| 16:13 |
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| 16:13 |
Fixer |
so nobody cares for now |
| 16:14 |
paramat |
wut? |
| 16:15 |
Shara |
Fixer: only things I've seen are very general and high level I think |
| 16:15 |
paramat |
we don't accept contributions and nobody cares about them ... |
| 16:15 |
Shara |
Unhelpful bits like "we want mods at some point" |
| 16:15 |
Shara |
mobs* |
| 16:16 |
Fixer |
mods are here, just stop reinventing the wheel |
| 16:16 |
Fixer |
and mobs |
| 16:16 |
Shara |
paramat: He didn't say you don't accept contributions. |
| 16:17 |
paramat |
we absolutely rely on outsiders and spend a lot of time reviewing and working with them |
| 16:17 |
paramat |
no more ridiculous negativity please ;) |
| 16:18 |
LazyJ |
The stuff people want added to MTG would require stouter devices to run. |
| 16:18 |
Shara |
LazyJ: Some of the stuff I'd like to add wouldn't |
| 16:18 |
Shara |
Neither would your fishing idea |
| 16:18 |
LazyJ |
So either better info about how and why MTG is limited or move away from supporting older or weaker hardware. |
| 16:19 |
paramat |
oh 'dev process is too closed for outsiders' i see, sorry |
| 16:20 |
Shara |
But to throw something out there - I have spent a lot of time lately working on fair ways to add teleporting for players. Pretty much every game I played that has large maps has a teleport or quick travel ability of some kind. |
| 16:20 |
paramat |
erm, if you follow dev and issues you can know the direction, devs are just busy and don't feel like maintaining a summary text, contributors have to put some effort into following dev and reading issues |
| 16:21 |
LazyJ |
Another thought - include a bundle of mods along with the MTG download and leave it up to the user to install all, some, or none as they like or their device can handle. |
| 16:21 |
Shara |
But I don't know 1 - if even the high level concept of adding teleporting would be wanted and 2 - if so, what specific features would be desired |
| 16:22 |
Shara |
And since I don't know that, it's always better to just write the mod I want, which just about always will leave it not being suitable for MTG anyway - but at least then it's sure to get used. |
| 16:22 |
paramat |
my previous comment is not directed at anyone, and not meant to be grumpy :) |
| 16:22 |
LazyJ |
Ok, no stoning paramat this five minutes. :p |
| 16:23 |
Shara |
But the issue is that if I knew a thing would be wanted for MTG, I'd write with MTG in mind, or even make two versions. |
| 16:24 |
paramat |
Shara you could open a teleportation issue for devs to consider, then you'll have the information you need |
| 16:25 |
LazyJ |
Stuff from MoreOres has been gradually added to MTG over the years. Perhaps that is the formula to follow for including things in MTG? |
| 16:25 |
Shara |
If I open an issue, and a dev likes it, the dev will likely just go write it :P |
| 16:25 |
paramat |
i'd quite like to be stoned ;] |
| 16:26 |
Shara |
This isn't an "issue", this is me being willing to actually do something if it's wanted. |
| 16:26 |
LazyJ |
Sorry paramat, no substance abuse, just traditional rocks and other hard objects. |
| 16:26 |
Shara |
Hehehe |
| 16:26 |
* LazyJ |
looks for his week-old donuts. Those are pretty solid by now. |
| 16:27 |
Shara |
Letting doughnuts get so old.. what a crime :( |
| 16:27 |
* ThomasMonroe |
waits for a shout and a frantic LazyJ trying to find his tooth. |
| 16:27 |
LazyJ |
Bachelor living hides/loses many things. |
| 16:28 |
ThomasMonroe |
XD |
| 16:29 |
LazyJ |
It is not unheard of for a contributor to create a PR and that PR to be debated for a year or more only to be denied and dropped. |
| 16:31 |
LazyJ |
How many versions of the cart mod were developed, forked, and installed on servers for years before they were added to MTG? |
| 16:33 |
ThomasMonroe |
paramat what would the MapGen capabilities be if libnoise was added? |
| 16:33 |
ThomasMonroe |
er utilized? |
| 16:34 |
ThomasMonroe |
because it would be awesome to have a terrain with this noise |
| 16:34 |
ThomasMonroe |
http://libnoise.sourceforge.net/docs/classnoise_1_1module_1_1RidgedMulti.html |
| 16:35 |
LazyJ |
Using Carts and MoreOres as examples, mods are added to MTG when a dev feels interested in it enough. |
| 16:37 |
ThomasMonroe |
what I think should be done is default be put in it's own repo, and let MTG become the face of Minetest |
| 16:38 |
LazyJ |
So, Shara and other mod makers, create mods for your servers and others and maybe someday they will be added to MTG in some form. Until then, players can enjoy them on your servers. Those mods also make your servers stand-out from the others. That's a plus. |
| 16:39 |
LazyJ |
ThomasMonroe, MTG is the base for a lot of servers. Adding to MTG can cause conflicts with other mods or duplicates. |
| 16:40 |
LazyJ |
Keeping MTG as it is but with a different name (and info on where to change that name in what file for servers) and creating a more feature rich, flagship game for MT is my preference. |
| 16:40 |
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| 16:40 |
ThomasMonroe |
right |
| 16:40 |
ThomasMonroe |
like calling it default_server_base |
| 16:40 |
ThomasMonroe |
game* not server |
| 16:41 |
LazyJ |
yup. |
| 16:41 |
LazyJ |
Now, about adding signing fish and beer goggles to MTG. :0)- |
| 16:42 |
ThomasMonroe |
lazyJ what do you think of the noise that I suggested for the maps? |
| 16:42 |
LazyJ |
Ahk... *singing fish... though self-autographing fish might be a fad. |
| 16:42 |
LazyJ |
ThomasMonroe, that's way beyond my savvy. I have no understanding of it. |
| 16:43 |
ThomasMonroe |
XD |
| 16:43 |
ThomasMonroe |
np |
| 16:43 |
LazyJ |
As a player, I'm less interested in the realism of the landscape as I am in how it affects the game play and availability of resources. |
| 16:43 |
ThomasMonroe |
true |
| 16:45 |
LazyJ |
What would be a nice tool to have is one that smooths out the transition between different mapgen vintages. |
| 16:46 |
LazyJ |
I.e.: smoothing box canyons and box cliffs into the landscape. |
| 16:47 |
LazyJ |
Or when biomes clash - jungles next to snow biomes. |
| 16:48 |
ThomasMonroe |
right |
| 16:48 |
LazyJ |
Pick the tool, enter 50% grassy plain, 50% winter tundra, whack the ground along the dividing boundary between the jungle and winter biome to blend the two more smoothly. |
| 16:48 |
LazyJ |
Bonemeal does something like that with standing grass and flower spread. |
| 16:49 |
LazyJ |
sfan5 added something experimental to WE that sort-of remakes grass and dirt formations. |
| 16:50 |
sfan5 |
correction: it's not in worldedit (yet) but part of we_env |
| 16:50 |
LazyJ |
The pieces of the puzzle are there, I just don't have the coding skill to bring them together. :/ |
| 17:12 |
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| 17:13 |
Megaf |
rdococ, New on the install? |
| 17:14 |
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| 17:14 |
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| 17:18 |
IhrFussel |
Is it important to re-set the wielded item after taking the current one? Or is it optional? |
| 17:19 |
IhrFussel |
I found this code: item:take_item() clicker:set_wielded_item(item) |
| 17:40 |
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| 19:33 |
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| 19:36 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6542 |
| 19:37 |
Calinou |
fun useless fact: December 3 is when we celebrate the 7th birthday of Minecraft Alpha 1.2.6, the last Minecraft Alpha release |
| 19:37 |
Calinou |
:P |
| 19:42 |
IhrFussel |
Someone on my server requested the FPGA part of mesecons...will it cause lots of lag? |
| 19:43 |
IhrFussel |
As I understand it is able to connect lots of gates as an "array" of sorts |
| 19:44 |
Calinou |
FPGA = Field Programmable Gate Array, so yes |
| 19:44 |
Calinou |
:p |
| 19:44 |
Calinou |
not that I've ever used them, though |
| 19:47 |
IhrFussel |
I will enable it for now and see how it goes |
| 19:52 |
sfan5 |
it has no overheating so a badly constructed circuit can actually make your server lag (provided it's in an active mapblock) |
| 20:02 |
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| 20:06 |
IhrFussel |
Is there no limit as to how many gates you can connect to it? |
| 20:07 |
IhrFussel |
Or limiting execution of code or something like that |
| 20:08 |
sfan5 |
neither of those limits would make sense |
| 20:08 |
sfan5 |
what would make sense is how many times it can fire per second |
| 20:08 |
IhrFussel |
So it fires every step? |
| 20:08 |
sfan5 |
no, it fires every time mesecons deems it necessary |
| 20:09 |
IhrFussel |
But it *could* fire every step depending on the curcuit? |
| 20:10 |
sfan5 |
maybe |
| 20:11 |
IhrFussel |
I should probably remove the craft recipe and only hand them to players manually when needed |
| 20:17 |
Shara |
IhrFussel: I restrict mesecons to a priv on my server due to how crazy some players can get with it. |
| 20:17 |
Shara |
(especially since it's creative and they don't need to craft the things...) |
| 20:26 |
jas_ |
re: "why does minetest have swords" -- good for leaves and other vegetation, i couldn't imaging using anything else for large swaths of grass and leaves and wheat and flowers... |
| 20:28 |
Fixer |
why does minetest has anything? |
| 20:28 |
* Fixer |
collapses into core dump |
| 20:45 |
Calinou |
does it have air swords yet? |
| 20:46 |
rdococ |
Lol |
| 20:47 |
Shara |
Calinou: rumours say they can be found on Red Cat :P |
| 20:48 |
Shara |
I did consider removing all other swords, until I found players were placing them in item frames as decoration :( |
| 20:59 |
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| 22:13 |
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| 22:15 |
Megaf |
Nothing like a fresh install of Debian stable |
| 22:15 |
Megaf |
it's amazing how well it works. Let's see if I can resist the temptetion of new less tested software |
| 22:15 |
sfan5 |
doing a fresh install of outdated software sounds ironic |
| 22:16 |
Megaf |
was running Buster before, pretty updated |
| 22:16 |
Megaf |
but now I decided to use these LTS softwares |
| 22:16 |
Megaf |
for college stuff |
| 22:20 |
Calinou |
heh |
| 22:20 |
Calinou |
Megaf: this morning, I used IntelliJ EAP at uni on my laptop |
| 22:20 |
Calinou |
with Firefox Nightly |
| 22:20 |
Calinou |
:D |
| 22:21 |
Calinou |
YOLO |
| 22:21 |
Calinou |
(Early Access Preview) |
| 22:21 |
Megaf |
Calinou, IntelliJ? |
| 22:21 |
Megaf |
What's that again? |
| 22:21 |
Calinou |
Java IDE |
| 22:22 |
Calinou |
https://media.hugo.pro/jetbrains-toolbox_2017-10-20_21-18-12.png :P |
| 22:22 |
Calinou |
I have all JetBrains IDEs |
| 22:23 |
Megaf |
Calinou, Nightly is fine, but man, early access IDE? |
| 22:23 |
nerzhul |
i only use clion and pycharm, other languages are useless :p |
| 22:23 |
Megaf |
You like living dangerously |
| 22:23 |
Megaf |
I often use Chrome Dev and Firefox Nightly here |
| 22:23 |
Calinou |
an EAP is a weekly build |
| 22:23 |
Calinou |
Nightly is more frequently updated than EAP |
| 22:23 |
Megaf |
but Eclipse I will be use the very LTS old version on Debian 9 |
| 22:23 |
Calinou |
but it's only available for Rider (since it was recently released) |
| 22:24 |
Calinou |
I feel sorry for you :( |
| 22:24 |
Megaf |
I don't need a stupid bug hour prior submitting a college assignment |
| 22:24 |
Megaf |
hours* |
| 22:24 |
Calinou |
I'm lucky, I almost never run into bugs :P |
| 22:24 |
Calinou |
also, it's easy to switch between versions with the JetBrains toolbox |
| 22:24 |
Calinou |
you can have them installed side-by-side, too |
| 22:24 |
Megaf |
So, now, for colleges sake, I'm using only stable software |
| 22:24 |
Calinou |
I'm a college student too :P |
| 22:24 |
Megaf |
The testing fun shall live in VMs :D |
| 22:25 |
Megaf |
using latest VirtualBox 5.1.x from Oracle's repo |
| 22:25 |
Megaf |
Because for some reason Debian 9 doesn't have VirtualBox |
| 22:25 |
Calinou |
the latest VirtualBox is 5.2 :P |
| 22:25 |
Calinou |
released 2 days ago |
| 22:25 |
Calinou |
I already updated :) |
| 22:25 |
Megaf |
Debian 8 has and so does 10 |
| 22:25 |
Calinou |
Debian 9 doesn't have VirtualBox because of licensing issues |
| 22:26 |
Megaf |
Calinou, I know, I have it runnign on the other laptop |
| 22:26 |
Calinou |
(the OpenWatcom compiler, required to build the BIOS, is non-free) |
| 22:26 |
Megaf |
I have latest Windows 10 there and Windows 2008 R2 too |
| 22:26 |
Megaf |
running on vbox 5.2 |
| 22:26 |
Calinou |
VirtualBox isn't 100% open source :^) |
| 22:26 |
Megaf |
the Debian version is |
| 22:26 |
Calinou |
nope |
| 22:26 |
Calinou |
it's in `contrib` |
| 22:26 |
Calinou |
https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=virtualbox |
| 22:27 |
Calinou |
it still is |
| 22:27 |
* Megaf |
clicks |
| 22:27 |
Calinou |
contrib = depends on non-free things |
| 22:27 |
Calinou |
it also is in stretch-backports, by the way |
| 22:28 |
Megaf |
yep, but I rather use the Oracle version I guess |
| 22:28 |
Megaf |
I'm using some non-free software anyway |
| 22:28 |
Megaf |
AMD CPU microcode, Radeon firmware... |
| 22:28 |
Megaf |
and that's about it |
| 22:38 |
Calinou |
you can install OpenJDK fairly easily on Windows |
| 22:38 |
Calinou |
oh, nevermind |
| 22:39 |
Calinou |
I thought you were talking about Java |
| 22:39 |
Calinou |
I use Oracle JDK here (on Windows), but I could swap it for OpenJDK if I wanted |
| 22:39 |
Calinou |
(there's no official Windows builds, so you have to use some third-party ones) |
| 22:39 |
Calinou |
and, boy, the JDK grew pretty large as of Java 9… https://media.hugo.pro/firefox_2017-10-21_11-09-09.png |
| 22:40 |
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| 23:16 |
Megaf |
Night |
| 23:37 |
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| 23:52 |
Fixer |
glass fragments |
| 23:53 |
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