| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
octacian |
How hard would be be to add a simple GUI to specify a specific file name, out of curiosity? |
| 00:00 |
rubenwardy |
it's a python program which accepts a file name like this: rubenimageuploader <filename> |
| 00:00 |
rubenwardy |
just like any other program that can open files |
| 00:01 |
rubenwardy |
I guess with a simple tkinter script you could do it |
| 00:01 |
rubenwardy |
open it if no filename is provided |
| 00:01 |
octacian |
Yeah. |
| 00:01 |
octacian |
What is tkinter? |
| 00:01 |
rubenwardy |
I don't need it though |
| 00:01 |
octacian |
Like wxWidgets? |
| 00:01 |
rubenwardy |
it's a GUI library for Python |
| 00:01 |
rubenwardy |
it sucks, but it's part of the standard library |
| 00:01 |
octacian |
Cross platform? |
| 00:02 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 00:02 |
octacian |
huh, What would you use for cross-platform GUI development? |
| 00:02 |
rubenwardy |
qt/gtk probably |
| 00:02 |
octacian |
I'm dumping Electron, was planning on using Python + wxWidgets as an alternative for cross-platform |
| 00:03 |
KaadmY |
LOL, seems legit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeTjR5-IabY |
| 00:03 |
rubenwardy |
wxWidgets would be better than tkinter |
| 00:03 |
rubenwardy |
especiall |
| 00:04 |
rubenwardy |
especially if you're familiar |
| 00:04 |
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| 00:05 |
octacian |
Not at all familiar with either wxWidgets or Python ATM |
| 00:05 |
octacian |
Just seems to be the best choice, considering the simplicity of Python as a language |
| 00:05 |
lisac |
hey maybe there could be a clientmod which auto uploads screenshots? |
| 00:06 |
octacian |
I thought about that, but no auto-upload API |
| 00:06 |
rubenwardy |
kinda out of spec |
| 00:06 |
rubenwardy |
sort of thing an outside program should do |
| 00:06 |
rubenwardy |
like, on a global keyboard co-ordinate |
| 00:07 |
rubenwardy |
holy shezz |
| 00:07 |
rubenwardy |
never before have a seen a project with 3 space indentation |
| 00:07 |
rubenwardy |
*have I |
| 00:08 |
lisac |
rubenwardy, what about 4 tabs? |
| 00:08 |
Raven262 |
lisac, don't even think of sending him link to my code. |
| 00:08 |
lisac |
:P |
| 00:08 |
lisac |
you aren't using 4 tabs, Raven262. Sometimes you are using 1 space, sometimes 2 tabs |
| 00:08 |
lisac |
sometimes 6 spaces |
| 00:09 |
rubenwardy |
spaces = math.random() * 10 |
| 00:09 |
Raven262 |
Just to clarify that it was atom's, error not mine. |
| 00:09 |
rubenwardy |
turn on invisibles |
| 00:09 |
Raven262 |
*insert the "," in the other place |
| 00:09 |
rubenwardy |
helps a lot |
| 00:09 |
Raven262 |
i know |
| 00:09 |
* rubenwardy |
uses Atom |
| 00:09 |
Raven262 |
i just freshly installed it |
| 00:09 |
Raven262 |
i didn't configure a thing yet |
| 00:10 |
Raven262 |
And i opened a file in wordpad, which messed it up pretty badly. |
| 00:11 |
lisac |
hey Raven262 why don't use use MS Word for editing lua code? |
| 00:12 |
Raven262 |
use use? |
| 00:12 |
lisac |
hey |
| 00:12 |
lisac |
I should go sleep |
| 00:12 |
paramat |
octacian "0-127 and add 128 if force place is the proper way" correct |
| 00:12 |
octacian |
paramat: Yup, got the schematic mod working entirely |
| 00:12 |
octacian |
Still needs a README, but no time right now |
| 00:12 |
paramat |
but better for consistency that you ask the mod user to enter 0-255, then divide that by 2 to get 0-127 |
| 00:13 |
octacian |
hmm, Will consider updating to do that later, although I'm not too worried |
| 00:13 |
octacian |
Just implementing a jungle biome for Eden, with my new Lupuna trees created with the schematic creator :D |
| 00:13 |
* octacian |
is gonna copy-paste noise params and such from MTG |
| 00:13 |
octacian |
Still don't quite understand them xD |
| 00:16 |
Raven262 |
I used the default values for those. |
| 00:16 |
Raven262 |
for my mod that is |
| 00:16 |
Raven262 |
i tried to understand which one does what |
| 00:16 |
Raven262 |
it was a waste of time |
| 00:16 |
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| 00:16 |
Raven262 |
now i only use sidelen and fill_ration values |
| 00:17 |
Raven262 |
*fill_ratio |
| 00:17 |
Raven262 |
sidelen = 8, |
| 00:17 |
Raven262 |
fill_ratio = 0.00005 <-- This makes stuff spawn rarely i think |
| 00:17 |
octacian |
Raven262: That's what I'm using for registering decorations |
| 00:17 |
octacian |
using a fill ratio of 0.01 for my oak trees, works nicely |
| 00:18 |
Raven262 |
well |
| 00:18 |
Raven262 |
0.00005 is really rare then |
| 00:18 |
Raven262 |
but well, those are some rare stuff that i need generated |
| 00:18 |
Raven262 |
I hope that i'll release the mod tomorrow |
| 00:19 |
octacian |
paramat: Is it possible to cause mountains to be lower or higher through biomes? |
| 00:19 |
KaadmY |
octacian: don't think so |
| 00:19 |
paramat |
not with biomes, biomes are applied after terrain generation and don't affect terrain shape at all |
| 00:19 |
KaadmY |
Since the biomes are based on terrain height |
| 00:20 |
octacian |
Got it. |
| 00:20 |
octacian |
I really wish there was a way to create a biome that was either more flat or had taller mountains |
| 00:20 |
paramat |
you'd need to edit noise params |
| 00:20 |
octacian |
Would really make things much nicer |
| 00:20 |
KaadmY |
Yeah |
| 00:20 |
paramat |
hmmmm almost started something like that a few times |
| 00:20 |
lisac |
bye comrades |
| 00:21 |
paramat |
more MC-like where each biome affects the landscape |
| 00:21 |
KaadmY |
It'd be nice to have each biome have `flatten_ratio` and `flatten_height` to blend terrain towards that Y height |
| 00:21 |
octacian |
Yeah. |
| 00:21 |
octacian |
paramat: Is there a chance of seeing something like that? |
| 00:30 |
Sokomine |
KaadmY: sorry, no. but it's part of adventuretest as can be found on brandons github site. the most current changes to adventuretest might not be there; the screen blanking is |
| 00:32 |
KaadmY |
Sokomine: I figure out my problem already, but thanks anyway :P |
| 00:33 |
KaadmY |
For fullscreen HUD elements, you need `scale = {x = -100, y = -100}`, whereas I was doing `scale = -100` |
| 00:33 |
Sokomine |
octacian: how are you handling the probabilities? how will the user input them? |
| 00:34 |
octacian |
Sokomine: Via a formspec. User inputs the itemstack they want to change probability for, and can modify it there |
| 00:35 |
paramat |
octacian there's always a chance but i have no interest in coding that. having biomes affect terrain is possible if everything is self-contained in a new mapgen |
| 00:35 |
KaadmY |
*cough* carpathian *cough* |
| 00:35 |
octacian |
paramat: So, no way to do it directly from Lua, or do I misunderstand? |
| 00:36 |
KaadmY |
Having heightmap+biomemap access in a mapgen function from Lua would be useful |
| 00:36 |
paramat |
but to have such a feature in a universal biome API thing would need a whole new mapgen and biome API system, huge job |
| 00:36 |
KaadmY |
Instead of manually carving terrain with a voxel grid |
| 00:37 |
paramat |
however hmmmm has made it possible to have multiple biome systems, we have just one now which is the non-mgv6 'biome API' |
| 00:38 |
paramat |
octacian you can do anything you want in a lua mod, i'm talking about core code |
| 00:38 |
octacian |
Oh |
| 00:39 |
paramat |
a lua mapgen mod can use the biome map to alter terrain shape, but it would not be as fast and would cause lua lag for other players on a server (the usual problem with lua mapgens) |
| 00:40 |
Sokomine |
hm, yes. mg_villages does that to a degree. it changes the land for the village to flat. the biome (in this case: surface node(s)) is kept where possible |
| 00:40 |
paramat |
you can access the biomemap and heightmap from lua in 'on generated' |
| 00:40 |
Sokomine |
it seems to lag more in recent versions of mt. i havn't been able to pinpoint it |
| 00:42 |
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| 00:43 |
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| 02:39 |
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| 02:47 |
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| 03:10 |
octacian |
Is it possible to hide the selection box on an entity via the entity definition? |
| 03:10 |
octacian |
Also, is it possible to smoothly set the yaw of an entity? |
| 03:43 |
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| 05:22 |
Hijiri |
1) no 2) no |
| 05:23 |
Hijiri |
for 1 you can hide the selection box if you make the collisionbox zero extent |
| 05:23 |
Hijiri |
but I am guessing that's not what you want |
| 05:26 |
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| 05:37 |
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| 07:12 |
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| 07:12 |
tenplus1 |
hi folks |
| 07:16 |
Raven262 |
Hi ten |
| 07:16 |
tenplus1 |
hi raven :P |
| 07:17 |
Raven262 |
I got up early today. |
| 07:17 |
tenplus1 |
what time is it there ? |
| 07:17 |
Raven262 |
its 9 in the morning right now |
| 07:17 |
Raven262 |
i got up about 2 hours ago |
| 07:17 |
tenplus1 |
not bad :P |
| 07:18 |
Raven262 |
well, since i fell asleep somewhere at about 4 |
| 07:18 |
tenplus1 |
ouch, sleep schedule is handy... we updated Xanadu earlier, it has all new changes and lucky blocks added now |
| 07:18 |
Raven262 |
lol |
| 07:18 |
Raven262 |
The screwdrivers too? xD |
| 07:18 |
tenplus1 |
yup, and void mirror |
| 07:19 |
Raven262 |
xD |
| 07:19 |
Raven262 |
Well, i've been working on my new mod this morning, and i seem to be getting an error when trying to support lisac's toolranks. |
| 07:19 |
Raven262 |
The descriptions are not updated |
| 07:19 |
tenplus1 |
what mod ? |
| 07:20 |
Raven262 |
Hey, its a suprise! xD |
| 07:20 |
tenplus1 |
ooh :) am eager to hear now... ehehe |
| 07:20 |
Raven262 |
not, really, only lisac knows about it |
| 07:20 |
Raven262 |
Okay |
| 07:20 |
Raven262 |
It adds amber |
| 07:20 |
Raven262 |
and amber tools |
| 07:20 |
Raven262 |
and stuff |
| 07:20 |
tenplus1 |
can we trap mobs inside it :D |
| 07:20 |
Raven262 |
Oh, yes |
| 07:20 |
tenplus1 |
mwhehehe |
| 07:20 |
Raven262 |
That would actually give it some use! |
| 07:21 |
Raven262 |
xD |
| 07:21 |
Raven262 |
But first, i'm trying to make this thing work. |
| 07:21 |
tenplus1 |
good luck :P |
| 07:22 |
Raven262 |
Just a question, since i used a table to register item descriptions for lisac's mod's support, how do i make it refresh the description? |
| 07:23 |
Raven262 |
I would ask lisac, but hes asleep. |
| 07:23 |
tenplus1 |
you gotta edit the tool metadata inside inventory to change descriptions from there on... |
| 07:24 |
tenplus1 |
check inside his toolranks to see how that's done :D |
| 07:25 |
Raven262 |
he did edit the metadata using the toolranks.new_afteruse |
| 07:25 |
Raven262 |
but inside my function create_description, so its only called on registration |
| 07:25 |
Raven262 |
i need to call it afterwards |
| 07:26 |
Raven262 |
but i don't want to make 4 copies of it |
| 07:26 |
tenplus1 |
doesnt toolranks hav a sort of api to register new tools and do it for you ? |
| 07:26 |
Raven262 |
i use it |
| 07:26 |
Raven262 |
thats it, that function |
| 07:26 |
Raven262 |
And it works, just it doesn't refresh |
| 07:27 |
tenplus1 |
hrm |
| 07:27 |
Raven262 |
Actually... |
| 07:27 |
Raven262 |
If i add after_use = after_use? |
| 07:27 |
Raven262 |
to each item's def |
| 07:30 |
Raven262 |
Quick lua question, how do i make the function return two outputs? |
| 07:31 |
tenplus1 |
return a, b and if you call function you do: local a, b = my_function(stuff) |
| 07:31 |
Raven262 |
okay i got it |
| 07:31 |
Raven262 |
and i also got a full screen of toolranks related errors |
| 07:31 |
Raven262 |
again, i messed up |
| 07:32 |
tenplus1 |
erk |
| 07:32 |
Raven262 |
Damn lisac and his hacky ways of solving things |
| 07:32 |
tenplus1 |
heh |
| 07:33 |
tenplus1 |
would be nice to have a new tool system in engine itself... |
| 07:33 |
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| 07:33 |
tenplus1 |
one that works on tool meta instead of registered static data |
| 07:33 |
tenplus1 |
hi cwz |
| 07:33 |
Raven262 |
i mean really, he made a function that finds tool's type based on the description string |
| 07:33 |
Raven262 |
and my description string is created inside the same function where i call his function |
| 07:34 |
tenplus1 |
lol |
| 07:34 |
Raven262 |
at the end he gets nill |
| 07:34 |
tenplus1 |
he needs a nil check |
| 07:34 |
Raven262 |
again, i messed up xD |
| 07:35 |
tenplus1 |
cant you generate tools 1st before registering with his mod ? |
| 07:35 |
Raven262 |
i can, but that gives me 4 times more code in my file |
| 07:35 |
Raven262 |
i tried using a function to register descriptions |
| 07:35 |
tenplus1 |
sometimes you gotta sacrifice |
| 07:36 |
Raven262 |
nah, not this time |
| 07:36 |
Raven262 |
this'll work |
| 07:36 |
Raven262 |
eventually |
| 07:36 |
tenplus1 |
:PP |
| 07:36 |
Raven262 |
i need to make the description first, and then call his function. |
| 07:40 |
Raven262 |
hehe i know |
| 07:40 |
Raven262 |
he'll never see this coming |
| 07:42 |
tenplus1 |
:P |
| 07:43 |
Raven262 |
string.find(description, "Pickaxe") searches the description, right? |
| 07:43 |
Raven262 |
for pickaxe |
| 07:43 |
Raven262 |
hell, it searches the DESCRIPTION! |
| 07:43 |
Raven262 |
I was wrong there |
| 07:43 |
Raven262 |
well, back to work |
| 07:43 |
tenplus1 |
hav fun :) |
| 07:43 |
Raven262 |
xD |
| 08:22 |
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| 08:25 |
tenplus1 |
hi DS |
| 08:28 |
DS-minetest |
hi |
| 08:28 |
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| 08:29 |
tenplus1 |
hi DI3HARD139 |
| 08:29 |
DI3HARD139 |
Hello tenplus1 |
| 08:29 |
DS-minetest |
imo the main menu music shouldn't stop at loading beginn |
| 08:30 |
tenplus1 |
should keep going until on server ? |
| 08:30 |
DS-minetest |
yes |
| 08:31 |
tenplus1 |
would be a nice feature... game loading music :P |
| 08:35 |
DI3HARD139 |
:P |
| 08:35 |
DI3HARD139 |
Speaking of. Can we add elevator music to the loading screen? |
| 08:35 |
* tenplus1 |
still wants mod/xm support |
| 08:35 |
tenplus1 |
ehehehehe, "The Girl from Epanema" :)))0 |
| 08:36 |
DI3HARD139 |
^ |
| 08:44 |
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| 08:50 |
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| 08:50 |
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| 08:52 |
Raven262 |
I finally made this thing work. |
| 08:53 |
Raven262 |
Though the code is really idiotic. |
| 08:53 |
tenplus1 |
w00t!! |
| 08:53 |
Raven262 |
but it works! |
| 08:53 |
Raven262 |
Really, i used a for loop after the registrations and have overriden the registered tools. |
| 08:54 |
Raven262 |
after i quit trying top place lisac's buggy registrations function inside my registration function. |
| 08:54 |
Raven262 |
*to |
| 08:54 |
tenplus1 |
sounds a lot of hassle... |
| 08:54 |
Raven262 |
i'll notify lisac of his bad doings, though. |
| 08:55 |
tenplus1 |
if you have your code on git I'd like to see :P |
| 08:55 |
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| 08:55 |
Raven262 |
sure, lemme upload the latest one |
| 08:55 |
tenplus1 |
hi nrz |
| 08:56 |
Raven262 |
https://github.com/theraven262/amber |
| 08:56 |
Raven262 |
there |
| 08:56 |
tenplus1 |
thx |
| 08:57 |
Raven262 |
also, do you know if there is a way to make a string all lowercase? |
| 08:57 |
Raven262 |
i could use it to remove one table |
| 08:57 |
tenplus1 |
string_name:lower() |
| 08:57 |
Raven262 |
ohh |
| 08:57 |
Raven262 |
nice |
| 09:01 |
Raven262 |
updated |
| 09:02 |
nerzhul |
hi tenplus1 |
| 09:02 |
tenplus1 |
o/ |
| 09:02 |
nerzhul |
i think i found a nice optimization to do client side to improve rendering performance |
| 09:02 |
nerzhul |
i should test the new implemtation this evening |
| 09:02 |
tenplus1 |
ooh do tell ? |
| 09:02 |
tenplus1 |
any performance increase would be welcome :D |
| 09:03 |
nerzhul |
oh it's the TileSpec problem i search a solution to optimize it and i think i found a mean to reduce the memory copy, but it should test it |
| 09:03 |
* tenplus1 |
hopes it works out |
| 09:05 |
tenplus1 |
I like the textires raven |
| 09:07 |
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| 09:08 |
Raven262 |
Hey, tenplus1, i make bad code, thats why i have to compensate with the textures :P |
| 09:08 |
tenplus1 |
ehehe |
| 09:08 |
Raven262 |
Thats why lisac and i are a nice development team |
| 09:09 |
Raven262 |
we don't know a thing about each other's work |
| 09:09 |
Raven262 |
:P |
| 09:09 |
tenplus1 |
it just happens :P |
| 09:10 |
tenplus1 |
http://academic.emporia.edu/abersusa/geograph.htm |
| 09:13 |
Darcidride |
Hi |
| 09:13 |
tenplus1 |
hi Darcidride :P |
| 09:16 |
nerzhul |
i published a PR about optimizing some client rendering parts and mapgen parts, it's a little bit interesting on new map on release mode the map generates a little faster because i dropped a calcul caching it for various operations on VoxelArea |
| 09:16 |
CWz |
tenplus1, trader npc seems broken |
| 09:17 |
tenplus1 |
in mobs redo ? |
| 09:17 |
CWz |
yeah |
| 09:17 |
CWz |
can get the item i traded for |
| 09:18 |
tenplus1 |
works here |
| 09:18 |
CWz |
hmm |
| 09:18 |
tenplus1 |
drag item you want into selection, price appears, add payment and drag bought items into your inventory |
| 09:18 |
CWz |
i tried that, doesn't let me place it in the inventory |
| 09:18 |
tenplus1 |
new dev ? |
| 09:19 |
tenplus1 |
or previous build... am using dev made on 19th... works |
| 09:19 |
CWz |
dev from before the weird beakage |
| 09:19 |
tenplus1 |
same... |
| 09:19 |
tenplus1 |
very weird... it's working ok myside... lemmie test on network |
| 09:20 |
tenplus1 |
yep, workingo n network too... I dont get it |
| 09:20 |
tenplus1 |
what other mods you running ? |
| 09:20 |
CWz |
Oh wait, the server uses a stable 0.4.16 |
| 09:22 |
tenplus1 |
it uses same formspec and inventory checks from 0.4.15+ so should work... sostrange... waht server ? |
| 09:22 |
CWz |
Banana Land |
| 09:23 |
tenplus1 |
connecting now, can you tp me to you when I do |
| 09:25 |
tenplus1 |
ehehehe |
| 09:25 |
CWz |
Thanks |
| 09:26 |
tenplus1 |
when I get the time I'll try to make it simple like the minecraft trading setup... |
| 09:27 |
CWz |
Could it be that some of the player inventory slots are non responsive |
| 09:28 |
tenplus1 |
they shouldnt be... all slots are added and checked in formspec functions... I dont get why it doesnt work at times |
| 09:28 |
CWz |
Lag maybe |
| 09:28 |
tenplus1 |
could be... usually messes with things |
| 09:46 |
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| 10:27 |
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| 10:32 |
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| 10:32 |
tenplus1 |
wb nrz |
| 11:02 |
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| 11:03 |
tenplus1 |
hi lisac |
| 11:04 |
lisac |
hey comrade |
| 11:05 |
tenplus1 |
o/ |
| 11:06 |
tenplus1 |
players on Xanadu seemed quite happy to have new lucky blocks to play with... one didnt know what to do with the super magenta screwdriver but was happy to have it :DDDD |
| 11:16 |
tenplus1 |
any rare items are placed in a shop and sold for mundo diamond.gold it seems :D |
| 11:16 |
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| 11:17 |
tenplus1 |
hi Jordach |
| 11:17 |
lisac |
tenplus1, of course he is, players are like Ferengi |
| 11:17 |
lisac |
trying to acquire as much as possible |
| 11:17 |
tenplus1 |
ehehehe... yeah :D |
| 11:17 |
tenplus1 |
the charity chests empty fast, even if they dont need the items it contains |
| 11:18 |
lisac |
lol you could place rules of acquisition instead of server rules next 1st april |
| 11:18 |
tenplus1 |
ahaha yeah, that's a good idea.... sad to say but I totally loved Deep Space 9 cause of Quark's bar |
| 11:18 |
lisac |
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition |
| 11:18 |
lisac |
:P |
| 11:19 |
lisac |
hey fellow trekie! |
| 11:19 |
tenplus1 |
ehehe, seen 'em all :D |
| 11:19 |
lisac |
same. Twice. |
| 11:19 |
lisac |
have you seen this FOSS game? http://smcameron.github.io/space-nerds-in-space/ |
| 11:20 |
tenplus1 |
nooo, checking |
| 11:21 |
rubenwardy |
that website made me blind |
| 11:21 |
tenplus1 |
yeah, not that well laid out |
| 11:21 |
rubenwardy |
seriously though, you can make a really minimal website look nice |
| 11:22 |
rubenwardy |
margins and contrast |
| 11:22 |
tenplus1 |
I loved how the Grand Nagus was the little dude from Princess Bride... oh so funny |
| 11:22 |
lisac |
rubenwardy, it looks like star trek interfaces |
| 11:22 |
rubenwardy |
remove underlines from the navbar |
| 11:22 |
rubenwardy |
also, unrelated: https://i.rubenwardy.com/1BLt4tEz8D.png |
| 11:23 |
rubenwardy |
there's no links |
| 11:24 |
lisac |
rubenwardy, http://imgur.com/eXkWwh1 |
| 11:24 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 11:24 |
rubenwardy |
the things follow it have them |
| 11:24 |
Shara |
I also get no links |
| 11:24 |
rubenwardy |
I have a custom userContent.css though |
| 11:24 |
tenplus1 |
hi shara |
| 11:24 |
rubenwardy |
oh that's good |
| 11:24 |
rubenwardy |
hey Shara |
| 11:25 |
Shara |
I get the links searching for anything else though, it seems |
| 11:25 |
Shara |
Hi rubenwardy :) |
| 11:25 |
lisac |
it works fine for me, too |
| 11:25 |
lisac |
as in, everything |
| 11:25 |
rubenwardy |
what browser are you using? |
| 11:25 |
lisac |
Firefox |
| 11:25 |
Shara |
Chrome |
| 11:25 |
rubenwardy |
Firefox for me |
| 11:25 |
Shara |
Location based issue then |
| 11:25 |
lisac |
yeah you should all switch to Serbian google :P |
| 11:26 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, we're not that far apart |
| 11:26 |
Shara |
I still don't know any MT related people closer to me :P |
| 11:27 |
rubenwardy |
seems like it's all the www. sites by them too: https://i.rubenwardy.com/8YCLygsqvB.png |
| 11:27 |
rubenwardy |
so, who do people recommend for VPNs? |
| 11:28 |
Shara |
Hmmm |
| 11:28 |
lisac |
https://www.google.rs/ |
| 11:28 |
Shara |
Same again |
| 11:28 |
lisac |
dat works |
| 11:28 |
lisac |
:P |
| 11:28 |
rubenwardy |
same again again |
| 11:29 |
Shara |
yea, serbian doesn't fix it for me |
| 11:29 |
Raven262 |
Ñтварно? |
| 11:29 |
lisac |
:( |
| 11:29 |
tenplus1 |
fix what? |
| 11:29 |
lisac |
tenplus1, can you google 'Private internet access'? |
| 11:30 |
tenplus1 |
k, what am I looking for in results |
| 11:30 |
rubenwardy |
also, unrelated: https://i.rubenwardy.com/1BLt4tEz8D.png |
| 11:30 |
rubenwardy |
*related |
| 11:30 |
rubenwardy |
that's the link, tenplus1 ^ |
| 11:30 |
tenplus1 |
yeah, I see that... it's 1st choice on results |
| 11:31 |
rubenwardy |
so not just a south west thing |
| 11:31 |
CWz |
seems alots of players seemd to join leave |
| 11:31 |
rubenwardy |
Maybe it's a result of our Glorious Leader's internet policies |
| 11:31 |
rubenwardy |
CWz, Android |
| 11:31 |
tenplus1 |
lolol |
| 11:32 |
* tenplus1 |
runs adblocker, that may help |
| 11:32 |
Shara |
lisac: http://gingercat.tk/4amits/20170725googlepia.png |
| 11:32 |
rubenwardy |
oh, same |
| 11:32 |
rubenwardy |
aaah |
| 11:32 |
rubenwardy |
links display with adblock off |
| 11:32 |
CWz |
how come andriod minetest does that |
| 11:32 |
Shara |
DOesn't matter which country's google I use |
| 11:32 |
lisac |
hmm |
| 11:33 |
rubenwardy |
Shara, adblocking? |
| 11:33 |
lisac |
even google.com works fine here |
| 11:33 |
Raven262 |
odd |
| 11:33 |
Shara |
uBlock |
| 11:33 |
lisac |
I've got ublock origin |
| 11:33 |
rubenwardy |
same |
| 11:33 |
Shara |
same as lisac then |
| 11:33 |
Shara |
Hmmm |
| 11:33 |
rubenwardy |
turning it off makes the link appear |
| 11:33 |
lisac |
tis the best adblock |
| 11:33 |
Raven262 |
Works without adblock, oddly. |
| 11:34 |
Shara |
actually, the links are there for me on co.uk via FireFox |
| 11:34 |
lisac |
Raven262, got the same issue? |
| 11:34 |
Raven262 |
Yep |
| 11:34 |
lisac |
no fucking way |
| 11:34 |
lisac |
we are on same network |
| 11:34 |
Raven262 |
But, lisac, we have same systems and same specs. |
| 11:34 |
lisac |
it's a browser issue then. |
| 11:34 |
Raven262 |
that^^ |
| 11:35 |
lisac |
*its treason then |
| 11:35 |
lisac |
:P |
| 11:35 |
Shara |
I still have AdBlock plus on firefox instead |
| 11:35 |
tenplus1 |
ehehe |
| 11:35 |
* Shara |
shrugs |
| 11:35 |
tenplus1 |
ooh, adblock is kinda crappy... try uBlock Origins |
| 11:35 |
* Raven262 |
tries Edge |
| 11:35 |
Shara |
tenplus1: read further up :P |
| 11:35 |
Shara |
I mostly use chrome, which does have ublock origins |
| 11:35 |
Shara |
Just barely use FireFox, so didn't get round to changing it |
| 11:36 |
tenplus1 |
ehe, oops |
| 11:36 |
Shara |
Plus my FireFox has so many otherthings on it that nothing gets through anyway :P |
| 11:36 |
Raven262 |
Did you know that you can buy ublock for edge on microsoft store? |
| 11:36 |
lisac |
hey palpatine was actually legally elected supreme chancellor. |
| 11:36 |
tenplus1 |
buy ???? how much |
| 11:36 |
Raven262 |
Didn't check |
| 11:37 |
lisac |
Jedi had actually betrayed the empire |
| 11:37 |
lisac |
:O Jedi are the evil ones |
| 11:37 |
Raven262 |
Err, if you google it, you'll get results in which it says that it is sold. |
| 11:38 |
Raven262 |
if you Bing it you get the github link |
| 11:38 |
Raven262 |
and free stuff |
| 11:38 |
tenplus1 |
*shudder* bing |
| 11:38 |
Raven262 |
Google has betrayed me. |
| 11:38 |
tenplus1 |
duck duck go is handy |
| 11:38 |
Raven262 |
Well, good that i don't use Edge anyways. |
| 11:38 |
Raven262 |
Bing even less. |
| 11:38 |
lisac |
when you hear in a movie a character says, 'Lemme bing it', you immediately know it is an ad |
| 11:39 |
lisac |
but when you hear 'Google it' it is completely normal |
| 11:39 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:39 |
tenplus1 |
hi thomas |
| 11:40 |
ThomasMonroe |
hi |
| 11:40 |
lisac |
hey thomas |
| 11:40 |
ThomasMonroe |
hi lisac |
| 11:53 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:56 |
tenplus1 |
o/ fixer |
| 11:56 |
lisac |
greetings comrade Fixer |
| 11:56 |
Fixer |
hi |
| 11:56 |
Fixer |
not a comrade though |
| 12:02 |
tenplus1 |
back laters :D |
| 12:03 |
|
tenplus1 left #minetest-hub |
| 12:16 |
CWz |
is it possible to check if an account has no password using the mod api |
| 12:23 |
|
cx384 joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:55 |
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DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:05 |
|
JordachL joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:15 |
lisac |
Fixer, everyone is a comrade |
| 13:19 |
ThomasMonroe |
to some extent or another |
| 13:19 |
lisac |
yeah |
| 13:20 |
lisac |
we need a nice communism mod, in which there are no locked chests |
| 13:20 |
lisac |
or shops |
| 13:21 |
|
twoelk joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:22 |
ThomasMonroe |
thats going to be chaos |
| 13:25 |
lisac |
Not if you allow community to imprison trolls |
| 13:25 |
lisac |
and give the ultimate quest |
| 13:26 |
lisac |
ex. build something |
| 13:26 |
lisac |
you could have community vote on overseers which establish the plans for a building |
| 13:26 |
lisac |
the others do their best to construct it, or make their own communist community, which builds another building |
| 13:27 |
lisac |
you could also add technic to allow players to establish automation |
| 13:27 |
lisac |
ex. build factories and use efficient energy sources. |
| 13:28 |
ThomasMonroe |
perhaps |
| 13:30 |
lisac |
you could have a command which votes the player to go to prison |
| 13:30 |
lisac |
for a specified amount of time |
| 13:30 |
lisac |
of course, if the player is alone on the server, you've got a problem |
| 13:30 |
lisac |
um... no idea how to solve that |
| 13:31 |
lisac |
but really, one person cannot undo the work of 50 in a short time |
| 13:31 |
lisac |
you could also require them to read the rules first |
| 13:31 |
lisac |
or manually grant interact |
| 13:31 |
Shara |
If I let players vote on things on my server, I suspect I'd soon abandon my server. |
| 13:31 |
lisac |
lol Shara you are right |
| 13:31 |
lisac |
give a vote immunity priv |
| 13:32 |
lisac |
/callvote xban Shara |
| 13:32 |
lisac |
hey Windows 10 has virtual desktops |
| 13:32 |
lisac |
didn't know that |
| 13:32 |
lisac |
wow |
| 13:32 |
Shara |
Heh, my own admins have banned me before :) |
| 13:32 |
lisac |
I had my brother ban me once. We are on the same IP |
| 13:32 |
Shara |
Hah! |
| 13:32 |
lisac |
had to call another admin over IRC to unban us :P |
| 13:32 |
lisac |
Raven262 |
| 13:33 |
Shara |
No IRC commands? |
| 13:33 |
lisac |
I think it was before them |
| 13:33 |
lisac |
not sure though |
| 13:33 |
Shara |
Ahh |
| 13:33 |
lisac |
it was on InchraNET |
| 13:33 |
lisac |
huh like... 2.5 years ago |
| 13:33 |
lisac |
wow I'm in Minetest for a long time :O |
| 13:35 |
lisac |
We could probably use a few more player animations |
| 13:35 |
lisac |
like, 'Point', 'Laugh', 'Swim' |
| 13:35 |
lisac |
wait, Swim one would be awesome |
| 13:36 |
Calinou |
swimming animations are problematic in 1×1 holes |
| 13:36 |
Calinou |
as well as shallow flowing water |
| 13:36 |
Calinou |
point/laugh animations don't make sense with low-detail cubic models |
| 13:36 |
lisac |
hm |
| 13:36 |
Calinou |
can we like… support the latest Minecraft skin format instead? |
| 13:36 |
Calinou |
it's only been 2 years |
| 13:36 |
lisac |
in World of Warcraft you've got emotes |
| 13:37 |
lisac |
like, animations with a /me telling stuff |
| 13:37 |
lisac |
/laugh /point /train /sit |
| 13:44 |
Shara |
I'd rather see security issues taken care of myself. |
| 13:46 |
lisac |
security issues? |
| 13:47 |
shivajiva |
I was hoping celeron55 was going to do something about that but it seems unlikely :/ |
| 13:48 |
shivajiva |
lack of server side checking for fly and noclip in anticheat |
| 13:49 |
Shara |
lisac: when some players can give themselves what abilities they like, it can easily spoil gameplay for other players |
| 13:50 |
lisac |
Shara, like fly and noclip? |
| 13:50 |
Shara |
Yes. |
| 13:50 |
Shara |
It's not an issue on some servers, but can be a huge problem on others. |
| 13:51 |
lisac |
that is more of an anticheat problem |
| 13:51 |
lisac |
we need a good anticheat |
| 13:51 |
lisac |
enforced on both client and server |
| 13:51 |
lisac |
then just ban people cheating |
| 13:51 |
lisac |
not just warn them |
| 13:51 |
Shara |
That's what we're hoping. |
| 13:51 |
lisac |
ex. moved too fast? Ban him, not just return him to the old position |
| 13:51 |
lisac |
hmm |
| 13:51 |
Shara |
I don't care about banning them. False positives are an issue there anyway |
| 13:52 |
Shara |
Ideal would be that it just can't happen |
| 13:52 |
Shara |
celeron55 seemed to have ideas, so maybe we can get an update |
| 13:52 |
shivajiva |
the core is an engine, I hear it over and over but the engine devs expects the modders to create security mods, yet the engine doesn't perform well enough to allow it...catch 22 |
| 13:52 |
lisac |
you probably can't prevent it in an opensource game |
| 13:53 |
lisac |
with CSM communication it wouldn't be that hard |
| 13:53 |
lisac |
check if player is in a node server side |
| 13:53 |
lisac |
and prevent lag clientside |
| 13:53 |
lisac |
if the player isn't using the mod he'll still be able to walk through nodes |
| 13:53 |
lisac |
but will get banned |
| 13:54 |
nerzhul |
shivajiva, i'm agaist core to be just an empty engine |
| 13:54 |
nerzhul |
against |
| 13:54 |
nerzhul |
it was kwoelr era. Minetest is more than an engine, it's a voxel game engine with features |
| 13:55 |
nerzhul |
if a mod is mandatory for everyone, just include in builtin or C++ core engine to have the most optimized version for everybody |
| 13:55 |
Calinou |
lisac: automatic bans are a touchy subject |
| 13:55 |
Calinou |
they should only be performed for stuff with basically no false positives |
| 13:55 |
nerzhul |
CSM is not for request client features from server |
| 13:55 |
lisac |
Calinou, kicks then? |
| 13:55 |
Calinou |
else, have fun unbanning innocent players |
| 13:55 |
Calinou |
lisac: doesn't really hinder cheaters |
| 13:55 |
lisac |
and a 1 minute ban? |
| 13:55 |
Shara |
Kicks don't fix anything. |
| 13:56 |
lisac |
maybe report it to admins |
| 13:56 |
lisac |
and have them manually check and ban |
| 13:56 |
Calinou |
that's much better |
| 13:56 |
lisac |
well that is a one mod |
| 13:56 |
Shara |
Yes, one of the things that was discussed was a report list the admin can view |
| 13:56 |
Shara |
So it's at least possible to identify who is worth watching more easily |
| 13:57 |
Shara |
But there needs to be a way to make that which won't grind the server to a halt as well |
| 13:58 |
shivajiva |
a good path finding routine instigated in the core could stop this surely? c55 seems to think it's a possibility |
| 13:58 |
lisac |
maybe make a mod which requires players to have a forum account associated with the ingame one? |
| 13:58 |
lisac |
to gain interact? |
| 13:58 |
lisac |
that way if someone is banned, he can't just change IP and rejoin with a different name |
| 13:58 |
Shara |
lisac: that's offputting to many genuine players |
| 13:59 |
lisac |
how so? Is there any genuine player without a forum account? |
| 13:59 |
Shara |
And if you can change IP you can just make another forum account as well... |
| 13:59 |
Shara |
lisac: plenty of them |
| 13:59 |
Shara |
I played for along time myself without one |
| 13:59 |
lisac |
don't forum accounts require an unique email? |
| 13:59 |
Shara |
It's not like emails are hard to get either. |
| 13:59 |
lisac |
yes, but if a server requires it, the player can easily create one |
| 13:59 |
lisac |
it takes time is my point |
| 13:59 |
lisac |
he can't just re log |
| 13:59 |
Shara |
Some children won't be allowed to have their own email either |
| 13:59 |
lisac |
he has to spend 10 or so minutes creating email and forum account |
| 14:00 |
Calinou |
lisac: that would hinder way too many players |
| 14:00 |
Calinou |
global account should eventually be done, but not with forums |
| 14:00 |
Calinou |
(and should be optional, probably opt-in rather than opt-out) |
| 14:00 |
Shara |
Calinou: full agreement from me there |
| 14:00 |
Calinou |
lisac: catch-all emails are a thing |
| 14:00 |
Calinou |
and repeat offenders can be really quick at creating alt identities |
| 14:00 |
Calinou |
I figure the good ones can do it in 2-3 minutes |
| 14:01 |
lisac |
alright then: have public servers which don't require accounts. and semi-public ones which enforce master server banlist |
| 14:01 |
lisac |
and global accounts |
| 14:01 |
Shara |
Which doesn't fix the issue at all. |
| 14:01 |
Calinou |
master bans can be done too, but again, who would control the list? |
| 14:01 |
lisac |
it might |
| 14:01 |
Shara |
If I wanted to run a restricted server, I could whitelist |
| 14:01 |
lisac |
in zandronum, the developers to that |
| 14:01 |
lisac |
you report the player on the IRC channel |
| 14:01 |
lisac |
and provide proof of offence |
| 14:02 |
Calinou |
I've never seen a cheater on Zandronum myself |
| 14:02 |
Calinou |
so, heh |
| 14:02 |
Calinou |
it's not like the game is too alive now anyway |
| 14:02 |
Shara |
No offence, but I much prefer to trust the people who actually make it their daily activity to admin servers than those who make it their daily activity to code for the game. :P |
| 14:02 |
Shara |
Which isn't to imply devs aren't capable of that, but it's not the "thing they do" within MT. :P |
| 14:02 |
Calinou |
anyway, global bans are problematic for a game like Minetest too |
| 14:03 |
Calinou |
some servers do not allow griefing |
| 14:03 |
Calinou |
some make it part of the game |
| 14:03 |
Calinou |
some servers do allow griefing* |
| 14:03 |
Shara |
Yup, same with things like swearing. |
| 14:03 |
Shara |
A trust system where you can opt in to accept a ban list from certain servers that you feel are run in a comparable way to your own might be nice |
| 14:03 |
Calinou |
source: I've played on many Minecraft servers like that |
| 14:03 |
Calinou |
(and enjoyed it for the most part, even though it gets pretty evil at times) |
| 14:04 |
Shara |
But I'd never want to use some kind of master ban list I have no control of |
| 14:04 |
shivajiva |
all this is good but it puts the burden on the server admins, when it's possible to prevent the majority of cheating by checking the player position... |
| 14:04 |
lisac |
maybe force the server to use a certain set of rules in order to allow it's bans to be master-enforced |
| 14:05 |
lisac |
if the server doesn't enforce those rules, the bans are automatically rejected |
| 14:05 |
Calinou |
shivajiva: sometimes, server-side checks cost too much CPU and cause lag |
| 14:05 |
Shara |
bans are not the core issue here anyway |
| 14:05 |
Calinou |
(especially on low-end servers/VPSes) |
| 14:05 |
lisac |
and of course the admins still need to provide proof |
| 14:05 |
Shara |
lisac: I don't have time to stop and show someone else proof when admining |
| 14:06 |
shivajiva |
let's carry on bolting bells n whistles on a struggling engine...catch 22 again |
| 14:06 |
|
octacian joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:07 |
Calinou |
rewrite Minetest with Godot :P |
| 14:07 |
shivajiva |
freeminer made significant gains in map reduction and lag I believe? |
| 14:07 |
octacian |
Calinou: You know, I looked at Godot, really not a fan :P |
| 14:08 |
Calinou |
it's *the* attempt at having a successful open source game engine, what's wrong with it? |
| 14:08 |
octacian |
shivajiva: I gave Freeminer a try yesterday, and believe it or not, found it to be more laggy than Minetest |
| 14:08 |
Shara |
Please don't get me started on map size issues :( |
| 14:08 |
Calinou |
face it, all the other FOSS "engines" before sucked |
| 14:08 |
octacian |
Calinou: True, it's not bad. Maybe I'll have to look into it more. However, porting Minetest to Godot just wouldn't be a good idea :P |
| 14:09 |
lisac |
Calinou, I've got it installed right now. I'm not sure I like the language |
| 14:09 |
lisac |
it is using |
| 14:09 |
lisac |
looks like python |
| 14:09 |
lisac |
I'm not really into python |
| 14:09 |
octacian |
rubenwardy: How does your python uploader get the password to sftp? Or does it use key authentication? |
| 14:10 |
lisac |
does it send it in plaintext? |
| 14:10 |
lisac |
:P |
| 14:10 |
octacian |
lisac: You know, Python honestly seems pretty nice. I'm planning on porting my two WIP Electron programs to Python with wxWidgets. |
| 14:10 |
Calinou |
lisac: it's a custom language, but C# will be available in 3.0 (via Mono) |
| 14:10 |
Calinou |
also, C++ remains an option with custom modules, or soon, GDNative |
| 14:10 |
lisac |
wow then I'm going to use C++ :P |
| 14:10 |
* lisac |
opens Godot |
| 14:10 |
octacian |
lisac: Dunno, it's for uploading images to an sftp server right from your desktop. For example, rubenwardy has i.rubenwardy.com |
| 14:11 |
lisac |
hmm |
| 14:11 |
octacian |
...and I am configuring i.endev.xyz rn :D |
| 14:11 |
lisac |
I'm right now searching for a Nyan on Craigs |
| 14:11 |
lisac |
no luck so far |
| 14:11 |
Calinou |
lisac: if you want to use C++ right now, you need to recompile the whole engine |
| 14:11 |
Calinou |
you won't need to in 3.0 |
| 14:11 |
lisac |
oh |
| 14:11 |
lisac |
well that is sad :( |
| 14:12 |
lisac |
is 3.0 coming soon? |
| 14:12 |
Calinou |
2-3 months |
| 14:12 |
lisac |
what about alpha releases? |
| 14:13 |
lisac |
oh wait its on github |
| 14:15 |
Calinou |
you can get development builds at this link: https://bintray.com/calinou/godot/editor/_latestVersion#files |
| 14:17 |
lisac |
thanks Calinou :P |
| 14:27 |
lisac |
Calinou, I managed to get it to show a cube |
| 14:27 |
lisac |
:P |
| 14:28 |
Calinou |
that's very easy |
| 14:30 |
ThomasMonroe |
@Calinou i agree with octacian i dont really lik godot, the interface is buggy and its somewhat wierd in the way it works |
| 14:30 |
Calinou |
the 3.0 editor has a much-better looking theme |
| 14:30 |
Calinou |
(and you can change the colors/contrast/font easily) |
| 14:32 |
lisac |
hm it does, but it still needs some getting used to |
| 14:35 |
lisac |
wow it even has settings shortcuts |
| 14:35 |
lisac |
nice |
| 14:38 |
nerzhul |
shivajiva, i'm working on performance improvements client side these days |
| 14:48 |
shivajiva |
good to hear nerzhul :) |
| 14:48 |
nerzhul |
it take times but i have an optimization path in a specific problem client side |
| 14:49 |
nerzhul |
server side ti's more complicated |
| 14:49 |
nerzhul |
but i have a little mapgen/client performance improvement in voxel areas, dropping many memory copy and calculs which are useless |
| 14:50 |
shivajiva |
I noticed you were trimming the fat on a recent pr you made |
| 14:50 |
nerzhul |
it depend on my motivation & time |
| 14:54 |
Dumbeldor |
nerzhul you are motived !! :D |
| 14:54 |
Dumbeldor |
Let's go to dev minetest ! |
| 14:55 |
shivajiva |
I understand perfectly, it would be nice to have a security road map that can be progressed towards balancing performance against leaving gaps the server admin has to diligently watch for. |
| 14:56 |
nerzhul |
for security it depend on which context but for me xban2 and more should be in core, we have a ban manager but it's not used |
| 14:57 |
shivajiva |
yes I'd like to see that |
| 14:57 |
shivajiva |
as a mod it has issues with the file size and serialisation |
| 15:00 |
shivajiva |
it's too easy to damage, leaving you scrambling for a backup |
| 15:01 |
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ruben2 joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:03 |
ruben2 |
thanks :) |
| 15:04 |
wardyruben |
FWIW, I agree with having more anti-cheating measures in the engine |
| 15:05 |
wardyruben |
and also more performance |
| 15:05 |
wardyruben |
so look forward to seeing what happens |
| 15:05 |
Shara |
I no longer trust xban2. I've had too many issues with it |
| 15:05 |
wardyruben |
doesn't it corrupt quite often? |
| 15:05 |
Shara |
Yes |
| 15:05 |
octacian |
Wait, so wardyruben and ruben2 are the same as rubenwardy? |
| 15:05 |
Shara |
I was restoring from back up only for it to corrupt again within a few days |
| 15:05 |
twoelk |
actually minetest could use a lot more built in admin tools, including anticheat tools |
| 15:06 |
wardyruben |
yes, octacian |
| 15:06 |
wardyruben |
left my password at home aha |
| 15:06 |
octacian |
You know, maybe if the features from xban2 were built in to the engine as suggested and saved information in the database |
| 15:10 |
Shara |
At the moment, you end up with a crazy large text file and then it corrupts. |
| 15:11 |
Shara |
It seems like I have to delete and start from scratch every 6 months or so, and there's also a period of disruption after doing that when previously banned people come back and try to "take revenge" |
| 15:13 |
wardyruben |
mod storage would mitigate slightly |
| 15:13 |
wardyruben |
but really you need a database |
| 15:13 |
shivajiva |
^ |
| 15:13 |
Shara |
:) |
| 15:14 |
wardyruben |
SELECT isBanned FROM Clump INNER JOIN User ON User.clump_id = id WHERE User.username = 'foobar'; |
| 15:15 |
wardyruben |
although meh |
| 15:16 |
shivajiva |
SELECT isBanned FROM Clump INNER JOIN User ON User.clump_id = id WHERE User.username = 'foobar' OR User.ip = 'foobar'; |
| 15:18 |
shivajiva |
needs a UUID to catch the scope though |
| 15:18 |
shivajiva |
names and IP's are not unique to a player |
| 15:22 |
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RobbieF joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:48 |
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Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:49 |
Krock |
o/ |
| 15:49 |
wardyruben |
o/ |
| 15:49 |
wardyruben |
I'm feeling a bit odd today |
| 15:50 |
Krock |
I see. your name is quite mixed up |
| 15:53 |
Krock |
https://i.redd.it/dp54vbgsbpbz.png <- wardyruben |
| 15:53 |
Krock |
as you've also found the best answer to an issue on github ;) |
| 15:53 |
wardyruben |
ha |
| 15:56 |
lisac |
Wanna hear a UDP joke? |
| 15:57 |
lisac |
-tells a joke |
| 15:57 |
lisac |
I don't get it |
| 15:57 |
lisac |
- I don't care |
| 15:57 |
lisac |
:P |
| 16:00 |
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| 16:01 |
Wayward_One |
hi all |
| 16:01 |
lisac |
hey Wayward_One |
| 16:04 |
shivajiva |
o/ |
| 16:42 |
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nerzhul joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:50 |
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sniper570 joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:56 |
benrob0329 |
Hello |
| 16:56 |
Krock |
hi benrob0329 |
| 16:57 |
Krock |
lisac, would you like to hear a TCP joke? |
| 16:57 |
lisac |
yes, I'd like to hear a TCP joke |
| 16:58 |
Krock |
ok, I've got a TCP joke for you |
| 16:58 |
lisac |
ok, I will hear a TCP joke |
| 16:58 |
Krock |
are you ready to hear this joke? |
| 16:58 |
lisac |
yes, I'm ready to hear this TCP joke |
| 16:59 |
Krock |
Sorry, the connection was aborted. Would you like to hear a TCP joke? |
| 16:59 |
lisac |
No thanks lol |
| 16:59 |
Krock |
:( |
| 16:59 |
shivajiva |
lol |
| 16:59 |
lisac |
:P |
| 16:59 |
KaadmY |
:D |
| 16:59 |
benrob0329 |
...so whats up? Aside from Lua lacking proper ways of making a database. |
| 17:00 |
shivajiva |
see lsqlite3 |
| 17:00 |
Krock |
io.open("./text.txt", "w"):write(minetest.serialize(database)) |
| 17:00 |
Krock |
io.close() |
| 17:00 |
benrob0329 |
that's not part of lua |
| 17:00 |
benrob0329 |
Which is my point |
| 17:01 |
shivajiva |
neither is luasocket but hey nobody is complaining :D |
| 17:01 |
lisac |
why even use files for storage anymore |
| 17:01 |
Krock |
we have ModStorage, which can be used for some purposes |
| 17:01 |
lisac |
yeah |
| 17:01 |
Krock |
shivajiva, just the few windows users |
| 17:01 |
lisac |
a lot simpler then writing your own system |
| 17:01 |
shivajiva |
muhahaha |
| 17:01 |
Krock |
lisac, if not files - where do you >store< your data then=? |
| 17:02 |
* benrob0329 |
mumbles about how if you had used TCP lib X instead or TCP lib Y the joke wouldn't have timed out |
| 17:02 |
lisac |
Krock, um.. ModStorage? |
| 17:02 |
lisac |
I mean, I don't store to files directly |
| 17:02 |
benrob0329 |
*of |
| 17:05 |
nerzhul |
use mod storage to store your data globally for mod and player attributes for player attributes :) |
| 17:05 |
lisac |
y ez |
| 17:10 |
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cx384 joined #minetest-hub |
| 17:12 |
Hijiri |
does mod stoprage not work on windows? |
| 17:13 |
benrob0329 |
Hijiri: yes, mod stoprage doesnt work on windows, or linux, or Mac. |
| 17:13 |
Hijiri |
ok, what about mod storage |
| 17:13 |
benrob0329 |
That should work everywhere. |
| 17:14 |
benrob0329 |
Unless the client is broke, then I give no guarantees. |
| 17:14 |
Krock |
I'd rather not want to be broke |
| 17:14 |
lisac |
Hi Hijiri |
| 17:14 |
Hijiri |
oh, I was referring to what Krock said, but I guess that was talking about lsqlite3 rather than ModStoragfe |
| 17:15 |
Hijiri |
ModStorage |
| 17:15 |
Hijiri |
hi lisac |
| 17:15 |
Krock |
what's ModStoragfe |
| 17:15 |
Krock |
nvm |
| 17:15 |
Hijiri |
actually Im about to leave |
| 17:15 |
benrob0329 |
To take typing lessons? |
| 17:17 |
KaadmY |
benrob0329: rekt |
| 17:24 |
cx384 |
I have found a crazy bug. If you join with the latest dev version of minetest on an "old" server, your field of view is one block higher then it should be. Maybe someone should fix this. http://imgur.com/a/Slwf0 |
| 17:26 |
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lisac joined #minetest-hub |
| 17:26 |
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Raven262 joined #minetest-hub |
| 17:29 |
cx384 |
No backwards compatibility anymore? |
| 17:31 |
Krock |
none for you, or any other minetest player/server owner who goes the master way towards 0.5.0 |
| 17:31 |
Krock |
you can get the backwards compat by reverting the specific commit |
| 17:31 |
benrob0329 |
Krock: ohh, that explains it |
| 17:31 |
cx384 |
oh ok thank you |
| 17:32 |
Krock |
-dev isn't meant to be stable |
| 17:33 |
cx384 |
Thats obvious. |
| 17:33 |
Krock |
indeed, but should be said sometime |
| 17:40 |
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| 17:43 |
cx384 |
bb |
| 17:49 |
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behalebabo joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:15 |
rubenwardy |
:3 |
| 18:17 |
KaadmY |
:3 |
| 18:24 |
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behalebabo joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:24 |
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soupfly joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:35 |
CWz |
I have solution when dumb admin use -dev for server and than complain about breakage, said admin explodes. i will work on the pullrequest right away |
| 18:35 |
KaadmY |
Exploding players should be a thing |
| 18:36 |
KaadmY |
I just had an idea for a really, really insanely dangerous plant |
| 18:36 |
KaadmY |
Rare plant in caves |
| 18:37 |
KaadmY |
When you touch it, it has sticky seeds that attach to you and hurt you by 10HP to a minimum of 1hp |
| 18:37 |
KaadmY |
And blow a hole around you |
| 18:37 |
KaadmY |
And you walk like 2x faster meanwhile |
| 18:40 |
CWz |
Weird |
| 18:40 |
CWz |
Sounds like a sunday morning |
| 18:48 |
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paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:57 |
lisac |
hey do you think this https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18056 mod could be added into minetest_game? I could of course clean it up |
| 18:57 |
* lisac |
has low hopes. |
| 19:02 |
paramat |
rightly :] |
| 19:02 |
paramat |
tools lasting longer because they have gained levels makes no sense, or, should be an optional thing |
| 19:03 |
lisac |
paramat, you are spending tools to repair them |
| 19:03 |
paramat |
MTG is really trying to avoid adding unnecessary things, we don't have enough active devs, it's almost in maintenanace mode |
| 19:03 |
lisac |
after a few repairs, they ought to get harder to break |
| 19:05 |
paramat |
still makes no durability sense, gameplay sense yes, but there's no need to add it to MTG, MTG is mean to be the simple basics |
| 19:05 |
paramat |
*meant |
| 19:05 |
Shara |
It's a really nice mod, but I don't think right for MTG |
| 19:07 |
paramat |
what people need to do is start coding new subgames instead of trying to get everything they want into MTG |
| 19:07 |
lisac |
:( alright, a few players just commented on the thread about it |
| 19:07 |
lisac |
hey paramat you gave me a nice idea |
| 19:07 |
Shara |
paramat: if MTG needs more people working on it, there needs to be clearer info about what direction MTG should go and what kind of things are wanted |
| 19:07 |
lisac |
a separate game, minetest_enchanted |
| 19:07 |
lisac |
which adds stuff not inside MT game, but still keeping it stable and fast |
| 19:08 |
lisac |
yeah is it even supposed to be a playable game? |
| 19:08 |
lisac |
or just a showcase of engine functions? |
| 19:08 |
lisac |
or maybe a base for other games? |
| 19:08 |
Shara |
Personally I am quite happy to work on things, but I need to know the expectations and what is wanted. |
| 19:08 |
rubenwardy |
^ |
| 19:09 |
rubenwardy |
might just work on Pixture instead |
| 19:09 |
lisac |
maybe paramat and other devs should write a roadmap for both minetest and minetest_game |
| 19:09 |
lisac |
containing wanted features and the end result |
| 19:10 |
lisac |
like, 'Add more stone uses somehow', 'Add a better anticheat system', etc. |
| 19:10 |
Shara |
Like.. a few people, including devs, showed interest in my handholds mod for MTG inclusion before, but it's pointless me writing mods with MTG as the intended focus because the odds of them getting in seem minute. |
| 19:10 |
Shara |
So I have to write things with the intention of them being totally seperate, and then... they may as well be totally seperate. |
| 19:11 |
rubenwardy |
lisac, like this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1488 |
| 19:12 |
paramat |
oh crumbs, the 'direction of MTG' thing :] it's been discussed a lot |
| 19:13 |
Shara |
I'd like to contribute more an dhelp more, but when even adjusting descriptions for consistency divides opinions... ouch :P |
| 19:13 |
paramat |
MTG is still a mod base (admittedly not well designed for that) but we are adding more simple content to make it a little more satisfying to use on it's own |
| 19:13 |
paramat |
c55 has roadmaps for MT, they're worth reading |
| 19:14 |
Shara |
paramat: is that official, given that at least one developer has said servers should not be using MTG, (but if it's the mod base, servers need mods... and it's true that a huge number of mods depend on at least defailt...) |
| 19:14 |
Shara |
?* |
| 19:15 |
lisac |
'I don't like the definition of the time period, MTG is more like semi-fantasy anime steampunk. We also have shiny steel nodes that are certainly not medieval.' |
| 19:15 |
lisac |
pls no anime |
| 19:15 |
paramat |
what i wrote is not 'official' because we haven't agreed on an official purpose, but it seems to me the current situation |
| 19:15 |
lisac |
why not postapocalyptic |
| 19:16 |
lisac |
that would explain why the universe is all blocks |
| 19:16 |
lisac |
and ofc the lack of mobs |
| 19:16 |
Shara |
I want it to be amod base, though also for it to have the ability to function as a basic game in its own right. |
| 19:16 |
lisac |
and the existence of dungeons |
| 19:16 |
lisac |
and mese |
| 19:16 |
paramat |
'servers shouldn't be using MTG' is nonsense :] |
| 19:16 |
Shara |
All that is needed for that is the ability to turn off non-vital features |
| 19:16 |
benrob0329 |
Offtopic: https://youtu.be/8OQtrmhpIXU |
| 19:17 |
lisac |
benrob0329, wtf is that |
| 19:17 |
benrob0329 |
If you have to turn of a basic gameplay feature because its too laggy, there is a problem. |
| 19:17 |
benrob0329 |
lisac: a meme |
| 19:18 |
lisac |
ofc |
| 19:18 |
lisac |
why not make several different minetest_games |
| 19:18 |
lisac |
like official subgasmes |
| 19:18 |
lisac |
*games |
| 19:18 |
lisac |
have a base_game |
| 19:18 |
benrob0329 |
Because that splinters development even more |
| 19:18 |
lisac |
hm |
| 19:19 |
lisac |
well I don't see any other way if devs can't agree upon it's purpose. |
| 19:19 |
paramat |
it seems quite possible MTG will be just kept simple but with additions of content (biomes, flora) because there are 'plans' for new subgames which are made to be more complete and to impress |
| 19:20 |
benrob0329 |
Perhaps we need a proper MTG council, with which to define a roadmap |
| 19:21 |
paramat |
yeah for example we could have very simple mobs in MTG, but only if they are optional |
| 19:21 |
lisac |
or a senate |
| 19:21 |
lisac |
pls call it senate |
| 19:21 |
lisac |
:P |
| 19:21 |
sofar |
congress |
| 19:21 |
benrob0329 |
The Senate of Game |
| 19:21 |
Shara |
paramat: I'd love to see more games as well, but that only works if they are also "official" games. |
| 19:21 |
lisac |
no no, Senate |
| 19:22 |
lisac |
so that someone can once say "I'm the senate!" |
| 19:22 |
lisac |
and then "It's treason then!" |
| 19:22 |
Shara |
And since MTG can barely manage more than basic mainenance, how are the devs going to oversee whole other games? |
| 19:22 |
Shara |
maintenance* |
| 19:23 |
lisac |
Shara, MTG isn't as complicated as engine code |
| 19:23 |
paramat |
new subgames are not a problem with splitting dev time, because these can be made by individuals and groups who are not core devs, and that's what we want because smaller groups often produce subgames with more focus and character |
| 19:23 |
Shara |
lisac: I am very aware. |
| 19:23 |
lisac |
of course there needs to be someone to moderate pull requests. |
| 19:23 |
lisac |
But no need for only MT devs to work on MTG |
| 19:23 |
lisac |
and a lot of forum modders might want to try their hand at editing MTG, if invited |
| 19:23 |
Shara |
paramat: but will these games be "official"/on equal footing with MTG? |
| 19:24 |
lisac |
yeah. Will they be shipped with MT? |
| 19:24 |
lisac |
and supported on #minetest? |
| 19:24 |
paramat |
we have asked for new subgames to include, that will then be 'officially approved for inclusion', anyone can make them |
| 19:25 |
lisac |
maybe we could have a subgame store |
| 19:25 |
lisac |
and a mod store |
| 19:25 |
Shara |
some guidance would be nice. |
| 19:25 |
rubenwardy |
^^ |
| 19:25 |
lisac |
^^ |
| 19:25 |
Shara |
SInce I assume they need to differ suitably to be considered |
| 19:25 |
lisac |
some document containing game requirements. |
| 19:25 |
Shara |
Not requirements, but something to give an idea of what might be accepted |
| 19:26 |
Shara |
It's hugely offputting to invest so much time in such a big project to then be told "no, this isn't what we want for an official game" |
| 19:27 |
lisac |
a senate would help with that. Aside from voting, you could also get a rejection reason, and ability to post the game again for voting and address those issues |
| 19:27 |
paramat |
well, c55 has stated he is hoping for subgames that are differernt from MTG, that's been the problem, most are minor variations |
| 19:27 |
KaadmY |
paramat: well I posted Pixture, I forget what the exact response was, I think it just got stale |
| 19:27 |
Shara |
I would love to work on a subgame, and have ideas but... by myself? That's not going to happen any time soon. |
| 19:28 |
rubenwardy |
KaadmY, with some work Pizture would be good |
| 19:28 |
Shara |
And then I suspect it would not be judged acceptable one way or another. |
| 19:28 |
rubenwardy |
well, it's good currently |
| 19:28 |
rubenwardy |
I mean good for inclusion |
| 19:29 |
rubenwardy |
it feels quite neutral atm, needs more of a "feeling" |
| 19:29 |
lisac |
rubenwardy, MTG feels neutral to me |
| 19:29 |
rubenwardy |
MTG is neutral |
| 19:29 |
lisac |
yeah |
| 19:29 |
rubenwardy |
we don't want another MTG |
| 19:29 |
lisac |
and pixture has a nice brown style |
| 19:30 |
lisac |
IDK, but it seems as if KaadmY actually invested a lot of time to remake all the textures. |
| 19:30 |
rubenwardy |
Pixture feels like another MC clone, there's no world building as such |
| 19:30 |
Shara |
I want something progression focused. |
| 19:30 |
rubenwardy |
^ |
| 19:30 |
lisac |
it might be missing some story, okay. |
| 19:30 |
Shara |
I started mapping requirements for a game about a year ago. |
| 19:30 |
sofar |
no offense to kaadmy/etc, but pixture looks like a disaster |
| 19:30 |
Shara |
But I simply don't have the time (or possibly the coding skill either quite yet) |
| 19:30 |
Raven262 |
Did any of you try Lord Of The Test? Thats a nice subgame. |
| 19:31 |
sofar |
500 shades of poop |
| 19:31 |
benrob0329 |
But you have to remember, MT aint gonna host a Skyrim port. |
| 19:31 |
KaadmY |
sofar: in what way? |
| 19:31 |
sofar |
graphical style |
| 19:31 |
lisac |
benrob0329, no you probably can't have PvE or PvP progression |
| 19:31 |
Shara |
But what I wanted was progression focused, with actual reasons to visit/find different biome types and so on |
| 19:31 |
lisac |
but you could have exploring progression |
| 19:31 |
lisac |
with dungeons hiding treasures like craft recipes |
| 19:31 |
lisac |
and being unable to craft stuff until you get a recipe |
| 19:32 |
sofar |
(I do like some parts of pixture's mechanics) |
| 19:32 |
benrob0329 |
Having to look for a crafting recopy is really tedious |
| 19:32 |
rubenwardy |
I don't really focus on graphs |
| 19:32 |
rubenwardy |
*graphics |
| 19:33 |
Shara |
I'd be in favour of a system where you do certain tasks or things to earn crafting recipes, but finding them randomly.. yes, tedious |
| 19:33 |
benrob0329 |
rubenwardy: graphics can make or break a game |
| 19:33 |
rubenwardy |
I agree |
| 19:33 |
rubenwardy |
and think that they do need attention for a good game |
| 19:33 |
rubenwardy |
however, game play first |
| 19:33 |
Shara |
For example, after you craft x number of normal tools, you might learn to make better tools |
| 19:33 |
rubenwardy |
although graphics give a feeling which may impact game play |
| 19:33 |
lisac |
Shara, you'd of course start with common recipes, but you would find epic stuff in dungeons |
| 19:33 |
lisac |
like special tools |
| 19:34 |
Raven262 |
Those are RPG elements. |
| 19:34 |
benrob0329 |
Shara: but while we can do that, we cant do other kinds of progression as easy |
| 19:34 |
Raven262 |
And those belong in its own sugbame. |
| 19:34 |
Raven262 |
*subgame |
| 19:34 |
Shara |
benrob0329: Like I said, I started planning something over a year ago. |
| 19:34 |
Shara |
Raven262: That's what we're talking about |
| 19:34 |
Raven262 |
Okay |
| 19:34 |
benrob0329 |
Like, what I find when I sit down in a new world with lets say, mesecons |
| 19:35 |
benrob0329 |
Is all I want to do is build the mesecons, everything else is tedious and boring |
| 19:35 |
benrob0329 |
Mining, smelting, mining some more |
| 19:36 |
lisac |
benrob0329, we need an ultimate objective? |
| 19:36 |
benrob0329 |
There is "progression" in the sense that I have to find and dig deeper |
| 19:36 |
benrob0329 |
*find materials |
| 19:36 |
benrob0329 |
But its not fun |
| 19:36 |
lisac |
yeah, but it isn't very satisfying one |
| 19:36 |
lisac |
right |
| 19:36 |
lisac |
you don't have a lot of ways to die |
| 19:36 |
lisac |
only by falling |
| 19:36 |
lisac |
or maybe buring |
| 19:36 |
lisac |
*burning |
| 19:36 |
benrob0329 |
Which still takes my life a lot... |
| 19:36 |
Shara |
Yet for a game called "mine" test, there is zero variation underground beyond how frequent ore is and what shape/how large the caves are |
| 19:37 |
Raven262 |
V7 improved that quite a bit |
| 19:37 |
lisac |
Shara, maybe the map is too big |
| 19:37 |
benrob0329 |
Exploring the first 50 or so caves is fun, after that its pretty meh |
| 19:37 |
lisac |
maybe if we had different realms spawn at different depths |
| 19:37 |
benrob0329 |
And really only v6 caves do the name "mine" justice |
| 19:37 |
Shara |
lisac: no, it's not about map size, it's about absolute lack of content underground |
| 19:38 |
lisac |
Shara, you can hardly fill 31 000 blocks of height with content |
| 19:38 |
Raven262 |
really? |
| 19:38 |
Raven262 |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18048 |
| 19:38 |
Shara |
Filling it all isn't really the point here. |
| 19:38 |
Shara |
Even one or two underground biomes would make a huge difference |
| 19:39 |
lisac |
alright; we could use some underground diversity |
| 19:39 |
Raven262 |
Also, underground mushrooms. |
| 19:39 |
benrob0329 |
What I'd like to see is balance, right now you pretty much have to clump a bunch of mining, then a bunch of building, then a bunch of smelting, THEN joy can have fun |
| 19:39 |
benrob0329 |
But the fun is gone, and your energy is waisted |
| 19:40 |
Shara |
Raven262: http://rc.minetest.tv/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/CRL_lichen-900x563.png |
| 19:40 |
benrob0329 |
Like with mesecons, mese is one of the rarest materials in the world! |
| 19:40 |
Raven262 |
Caverealms, Shara? |
| 19:40 |
Raven262 |
Or some other mod that i haven't heard of |
| 19:40 |
Shara |
CRL, not regular caverealms |
| 19:40 |
Raven262 |
Ah |
| 19:40 |
benrob0329 |
So you have to do a metric crapton of mining to automate your door |
| 19:41 |
benrob0329 |
that's not fun! |
| 19:41 |
lisac |
railways underground would be nice |
| 19:41 |
lisac |
like building a railway along your tunnel which can carry materials |
| 19:41 |
Shara |
But this has gone totally offtopic anyway |
| 19:41 |
Shara |
I'd love to work on a subgame, but cannot do it by myself even though I have a lot of ideas |
| 19:41 |
lisac |
hm would be nice if default carts could store materials |
| 19:42 |
benrob0329 |
Or technic, your so focused on automating everything that you never peak your head out because your in a constant loop of mine -> smelt -> get more rubber |
| 19:42 |
lisac |
Shara, me and Raven262 might be thinking about working on a subgame |
| 19:42 |
Raven262 |
We what? Oh, yes, maybe. |
| 19:42 |
lisac |
if you are looking for team members. Or need some more communism. |
| 19:42 |
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Fixer_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:43 |
benrob0329 |
We need diversity in progression, but still allowing people to do what they find fun |
| 19:43 |
Raven262 |
Did i mention that i'm already developing a subgame? |
| 19:43 |
lisac |
LoTT, Raven262? |
| 19:43 |
Raven262 |
Yea |
| 19:43 |
Shara |
Raven262: My involvement would very much depend on what the game was |
| 19:43 |
Raven262 |
Well |
| 19:44 |
Shara |
We'd also need to make sure we had the right skills between members of any group set up to try something |
| 19:44 |
Raven262 |
LOTT is this: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5578 |
| 19:44 |
lisac |
#lordofthetest |
| 19:44 |
Shara |
I have no interest in LOTT sadly |
| 19:45 |
Raven262 |
Heh |
| 19:45 |
Shara |
It has to be fully unique and not based on something. |
| 19:45 |
Raven262 |
I suppose then, its Amaz, lumidify and me. |
| 19:45 |
Raven262 |
Alsone. |
| 19:45 |
Raven262 |
*alone |
| 19:45 |
Shara |
I doubt an LOTR based idea is going to get added as an official game anyway |
| 19:46 |
lisac |
probably not. It is too big |
| 19:46 |
lisac |
Amaz, what do you think? |
| 19:46 |
Shara |
More about it being LOTR. |
| 19:46 |
sofar |
anything that smells like a trademark violation avoidance is a no-no imho |
| 19:46 |
Shara |
^ |
| 19:46 |
lisac |
sofar, I think LotR trademark is long gone |
| 19:46 |
sofar |
think again |
| 19:46 |
Shara |
seriously think again |
| 19:47 |
rubenwardy |
I doubt it has |
| 19:47 |
rubenwardy |
why are there so little LOTR movies? |
| 19:47 |
Shara |
It is not too difficult to be original. |
| 19:47 |
rubenwardy |
why aren't there any TV shows? |
| 19:48 |
sofar |
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4806%3Aqvz1jw.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=lord+of+the+rings&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA2%24COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query |
| 19:48 |
rubenwardy |
Tolkien died on September 2, 1973. Unless this law is amended, all of his works will enter the public domain in the UK on January 1, 2044. |
| 19:48 |
sofar |
click that link |
| 19:48 |
rubenwardy |
This search session has expired. Please start a search session again by clicking on the TRADEMARK icon, if you wish to continue. |
| 19:48 |
sofar |
trademarks can be kept alive indefinitely |
| 19:48 |
|
octacian_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:48 |
lisac |
This search session has expired. Please start a search session again by clicking on the TRADEMARK icon, if you wish to continue. |
| 19:48 |
* lisac |
is away |
| 19:48 |
sofar |
I count 9 trademarks "The lord of the rings" that are active |
| 19:48 |
lisac |
cya later |
| 19:48 |
sofar |
actually, way more |
| 19:49 |
sofar |
like, 30+ |
| 19:49 |
lumidify_ |
LOTT could technically just be renamed and modified a bit (changing the names of places, etc.) to turn it into a generic fantasy game :P |
| 19:49 |
Shara |
But if anyone wants to make a serious attempt at an alternative game which isn't messing with trademarks, or wants ideas/criticism on one, let me know. |
| 19:49 |
|
tumeninodes joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:50 |
lumidify |
Fantasy FTW |
| 19:50 |
Raven262 |
Yes |
| 19:50 |
sofar |
all of those lotr trademarks are held by ONE company, too |
| 19:51 |
tumeninodes |
Hi all. Oooooooo... game talk : ) |
| 19:51 |
Shara |
Hi tumeninodes |
| 19:51 |
benrob0329 |
Another roubt for progression is combat |
| 19:51 |
Raven262 |
Hi tumeninodes |
| 19:51 |
benrob0329 |
Except..oh wait minetest lacks good combat |
| 19:51 |
Shara |
I don't think MT can cut it there at all. |
| 19:51 |
Raven262 |
But it is so intensive, the combat! |
| 19:51 |
Raven262 |
The action |
| 19:52 |
benrob0329 |
We have a mele based combat system, where you only ever use one type of weapon |
| 19:52 |
|
Qbiq joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:52 |
tumeninodes |
A good game..., needs a good story. A plot, goal, objective |
| 19:52 |
Raven262 |
You can always modify it to give you lifesteal and some other rpg stuff |
| 19:52 |
Raven262 |
the weapon i meant |
| 19:52 |
benrob0329 |
And that weapon is disposable, and only has one attack |
| 19:53 |
benrob0329 |
A club? You ask..no, a horrible representation of the sword |
| 19:53 |
Raven262 |
same |
| 19:53 |
Raven262 |
they would just look different |
| 19:53 |
Raven262 |
they do exactly the same thing |
| 19:54 |
Raven262 |
all of mtg weapons do the exactly same thing, and all of them also look exactly like ach other. |
| 19:54 |
Raven262 |
*each |
| 19:55 |
Shara |
tumeninodes: yea, I would like to work on a subgame with actual progression of some kind but... getting people to work with = not happening |
| 19:55 |
benrob0329 |
The only kind of honing you can do for your skill is how you jump back and forth because we cant block either. |
| 19:55 |
tumeninodes |
would be cool if weapons could be leveled up, via achievements |
| 19:55 |
tumeninodes |
Shara, that seems the hardest obstacle |
| 19:56 |
Raven262 |
leveled up: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18056 |
| 19:56 |
benrob0329 |
Just getting better and giving each wepon its own trates and advantages would make a world of difference |
| 19:56 |
benrob0329 |
And no, enchanting doesn't count |
| 19:56 |
Raven262 |
Shara, I could work on textures if you really plan a subgame. |
| 19:57 |
benrob0329 |
That is still disposable, and relies on random chance for how good the weapon is |
| 19:57 |
Shara |
Raven262: Have any examples of textures you've done that I can look at? |
| 19:57 |
lumidify |
The problem is, how could you make a subgame continue to be interesting? Even if you add a story, that story will eventually be done, so it would still need to be pseudo-random in some way. |
| 19:57 |
Raven262 |
sure |
| 19:57 |
Raven262 |
I've done some stuff for lott |
| 19:57 |
Shara |
lumidify: that's an issue with any game at all ever |
| 19:57 |
Raven262 |
and some texture pack that got deleted |
| 19:57 |
tumeninodes |
Raven, yes I saw that, is a great idea |
| 19:57 |
KaadmY |
lumidify: solution: make the gamme hard af |
| 19:58 |
benrob0329 |
lumidify: story should inspire the mechanics, and the mechanics is what make the story |
| 19:58 |
Raven262 |
Shara, http://i.imgur.com/aNmMu1C.png |
| 19:58 |
Raven262 |
these are 32px though |
| 19:58 |
Raven262 |
i do work in lower resolution too |
| 19:58 |
Shara |
Raven262: all done from scratch? |
| 19:58 |
lumidify |
Yes, but other games have a set end, Minetest just sort of continues. |
| 19:58 |
Raven262 |
Yep |
| 19:58 |
Shara |
I actually prefer 32x |
| 19:58 |
Raven262 |
Pixel by pixel |
| 19:58 |
Raven262 |
it took me some hours to get each done |
| 19:58 |
Shara |
Those are pretty good |
| 19:58 |
Raven262 |
and some tries |
| 19:58 |
Raven262 |
Thanks |
| 19:59 |
Raven262 |
They don't exist anymore though. |
| 19:59 |
Raven262 |
(dd) |
| 19:59 |
KaadmY |
Hehe |
| 19:59 |
Shara |
ouch |
| 19:59 |
KaadmY |
dd if=/dev/sanity of=/dev/despair |
| 19:59 |
Raven262 |
some tools i made for lott: http://i.imgur.com/yFS7wic.png |
| 19:59 |
tumeninodes |
lumidify, but MC does the same thing. Hence the numerous subgames and adventure maps, etc |
| 19:59 |
benrob0329 |
lumidify: lots of story games continue, see skyrim or GTA |
| 19:59 |
Shara |
Recreate from screenshot!! |
| 19:59 |
Raven262 |
I would try, but i'm not sure the colours are same |
| 20:00 |
Shara |
Doesn't matter. You can play with colours until you get soemthing you like again anyway |
| 20:00 |
benrob0329 |
But they are fun enough that people mod and replay, or even just try for and all achievement rout |
| 20:00 |
KaadmY |
sofar: I should also probably mention that Pixture's textures were made 2 years ago and they were literally the first pixel art I'd ever done :) |
| 20:00 |
tumeninodes |
what is needed is..., good map makers (meaning adventure / challenge maps) minigames |
| 20:00 |
lumidify |
I guess pseudo-random quests could keep the game sort of alive. |
| 20:01 |
KaadmY |
But yes, they do need an overhaul |
| 20:01 |
Raven262 |
It takes ages to make textures like that, i don't know how i let myself lose them. |
| 20:01 |
tumeninodes |
Raven, I know your pain |
| 20:02 |
KaadmY |
Hm I have an idea for a hardcore survivial type subgame |
| 20:02 |
KaadmY |
It'll need a custom mapgen though |
| 20:02 |
Raven262 |
fractal mapgen? |
| 20:02 |
Raven262 |
xD |
| 20:02 |
KaadmY |
No :P |
| 20:02 |
KaadmY |
I need a gradiented mapgen |
| 20:02 |
Raven262 |
ah |
| 20:03 |
KaadmY |
So it's like a blend from ocean to mountain ranges |
| 20:03 |
KaadmY |
And extends infinitely in the other axis |
| 20:04 |
rubenwardy |
my biggest C++ project now has 64 classes (not including test ones) |
| 20:07 |
tumeninodes |
I definitely like the idea of a game which adds progression |
| 20:07 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:08 |
Shara |
Well, I have ideas, but little time. That's my problem. And I don't expect anyone else to code my ideas. |
| 20:09 |
tumeninodes |
I ran into too many ideas, with an inability to narrow them down :P So, I opted to create a version based solely on building/creative. So it can't be labeled a sub-"game" |
| 20:10 |
tumeninodes |
although I am still keeping the ability to PvP and to add mobs when the time is right |
| 20:10 |
Shara |
What I started mapping out was a set of custom biomes, for both ground level and underground, which would contain items that would be needed for progression |
| 20:11 |
Shara |
Idealy I wanted a system where some biomes were difficult, even impossible, to navigate without having first created equipment from earlier/lower ranking ones |
| 20:12 |
Shara |
So skipping multiple tiers of equipment like in MTG would become something that couldn't happen |
| 20:12 |
tumeninodes |
your outline is how it should be |
| 20:14 |
tumeninodes |
players become more drawn in by challenge, that is what a game is all about. They can become obsessed with beating levels |
| 20:14 |
Shara |
I have worked in the area of world building and general outlining for how game play should work/progress on a couple of games, so do have some idea when it comes to the planning |
| 20:15 |
Shara |
But the whole project got sort of shelved because it's too much for one person |
| 20:16 |
tumeninodes |
I could see if it was on a time limit being too much for 1 but... |
| 20:16 |
Shara |
MTG has a team of developers and moves really really slowly. |
| 20:16 |
tumeninodes |
Wuzzy works alone, and has made fairly good progress |
| 20:16 |
Shara |
And I won't pretend I'm as good a coder as any of them :P |
| 20:18 |
tumeninodes |
But then again, any of "them" (haha) would probably be willing to help here n there, especially with someone who contributes to MT/MTG |
| 20:19 |
tumeninodes |
in the way of advice or review, etc... solution ideas |
| 20:19 |
benrob0329 |
tumeninodes: unfortunately that is 99% of MT sub "games" |
| 20:19 |
benrob0329 |
Its building, and a mobs mod slapped on for good measure |
| 20:19 |
Shara |
I don't know enough about mapgen and that's the first hurdle really |
| 20:20 |
Shara |
But if I worked on my own idea I'd want it done properly. |
| 20:20 |
tumeninodes |
benrob, I agree. It is because most are literally brainlocked on MTG layout |
| 20:20 |
Shara |
And yea... I'd want to move away from MTG a lot, and that increases the time and learning needed |
| 20:21 |
tumeninodes |
Shara, Wuzzy feels the same, which is why he chose to work alone :D It is noce to have help, sure, but... can also lead to issues with different ideas and slow things down even more |
| 20:23 |
tumeninodes |
But, Shara..., good things take time. I think creating a subgame, for me at least, is fun, enjoyable, and a hobby because it is at my own leisure. I am in no rush. Then again, I am not looking for it to be accepted or included, etc. either |
| 20:25 |
paramat |
best to make one because you want to, it's no loss if it isn't bundled with MT |
| 20:25 |
tumeninodes |
I haven't even put any of it out yet on github because it's a mess. I am stripping out all aspects of crafting and sometimes run into a pandora's box situation and have to tape things back together :P |
| 20:25 |
Shara |
I want to, but I want to do a whole lot of things. |
| 20:25 |
Shara |
And I quite enjoy working with people |
| 20:26 |
tumeninodes |
people suck... :P |
| 20:26 |
Shara |
Nooo |
| 20:26 |
tumeninodes |
hehe |
| 20:26 |
Shara |
"Most" peopel suck :P |
| 20:26 |
Shara |
people* |
| 20:26 |
tumeninodes |
yes |
| 20:26 |
tumeninodes |
and I agree with paramat |
| 20:27 |
Shara |
It's just time. Otherwise I would. |
| 20:27 |
Shara |
I also know my own limits. |
| 20:28 |
tumeninodes |
Time is definitely no friend of mine either. But, I have no limits when it comes to making a mess of things... I am awesome at that |
| 20:28 |
Shara |
I specialise as well :D |
| 20:29 |
tumeninodes |
ha |
| 20:29 |
Raven262 |
I myself, never make mess of things. |
| 20:30 |
Raven262 |
Cause i always say "I'll do it later" |
| 20:30 |
tumeninodes |
Procrastination rules |
| 20:31 |
tumeninodes |
My gravestone will say "I'm working on it..." |
| 20:31 |
Raven262 |
But i love this little mod that i started, for the first time i don't actually feel it to be a burden. |
| 20:32 |
tumeninodes |
the burden usually comes when it turns into actual "work" |
| 20:32 |
Raven262 |
Well |
| 20:33 |
Raven262 |
I spent 4 hours coding this morning |
| 20:33 |
Raven262 |
just to add the support for lisac's mod |
| 20:33 |
Raven262 |
and i don't know a thing about coding |
| 20:33 |
Raven262 |
guess that now i do. |
| 20:34 |
tumeninodes |
cool |
| 20:34 |
Raven262 |
There is no "desaturate" in texture grouping? |
| 20:34 |
Raven262 |
Damn |
| 20:34 |
* Raven262 |
is trying not to use too many resources. |
| 20:35 |
Raven262 |
Also, yesterday i didn't know a thing about placing the schematics either, got that also. |
| 20:35 |
Raven262 |
I like how things are slowly starting to work |
| 20:35 |
Raven262 |
With a little patience |
| 20:36 |
tumeninodes |
heh, I have made some pretty messed up trees playing with .mts files before I got it right |
| 20:37 |
tumeninodes |
and I have messed up plenty of mapgen stuff as well (some with pretty cool outcomes) |
| 20:37 |
Raven262 |
just force node replacing and make them spawn a lot, makes some messed up things. |
| 20:37 |
tumeninodes |
haha |
| 20:37 |
Raven262 |
well |
| 20:38 |
Raven262 |
sidelen = 8, |
| 20:38 |
Raven262 |
fill_ratio = 0.0001 |
| 20:38 |
Raven262 |
In other words |
| 20:38 |
Raven262 |
I have no idea how this works |
| 20:38 |
tumeninodes |
replacing all stone with air is interesting |
| 20:38 |
Raven262 |
yea |
| 20:38 |
Raven262 |
i made a server with that |
| 20:39 |
Raven262 |
replace stone with air, and gravel blobs with stone |
| 20:39 |
Raven262 |
instant asteroid mapgen |
| 20:39 |
Raven262 |
:D |
| 20:39 |
Raven262 |
I also added some nice space skybox |
| 20:39 |
Raven262 |
and, well, it was a rather popular little server |
| 20:39 |
Raven262 |
it was there some 3-4 days |
| 20:39 |
tumeninodes |
just need a laser "asteroids" |
| 20:40 |
tumeninodes |
ring ring, phonecall.. AFK |
| 20:43 |
Raven262 |
Hmm those dungeons still spawn above the ground level |
| 20:43 |
Raven262 |
not sure if tis intended |
| 20:52 |
paramat |
there's a setting |
| 20:53 |
paramat |
for 'projecting dungeons' |
| 20:53 |
Raven262 |
i didn't know that |
| 20:53 |
Raven262 |
well, my minetest has default settings |
| 20:53 |
Raven262 |
i like this kind of dungeons, they look like abandoned ruins |
| 20:54 |
* lisac |
is back, comrades. |
| 21:08 |
|
RobbieF left #minetest-hub |
| 21:09 |
tumeninodes |
ugh, I don't intend to sound mean but, does anyone else get annoyed by "coming soon" posts in the WIP/Mods section? :/ I don't understand the concept, why not wait until you actually have something to post? |
| 21:10 |
Shara |
tumeninodes: They just make me less likely to view that person's topics again |
| 21:10 |
twoelk |
raise the excitement, force self to fullfill, disguised ask for help? |
| 21:11 |
tumeninodes |
Shara, same. |
| 21:12 |
tumeninodes |
Hi twoelk, I guess those "might" be reasons but, not sure they are the reason used in this case |
| 21:12 |
paramat |
often nothing appears :] |
| 21:13 |
tumeninodes |
There was one WIP mod posted by the same person but it was just textures with nothing else. paramat, true |
| 21:14 |
Shara |
Maybe if it was someone who is known to produce things and they posted enough concept info and asked for feedback while the polish the final version, it would be fine with me.. but then generic "coming soon" posts are... ugh |
| 21:14 |
* twoelk |
has lots of plans for things he is not even close to get done soon |
| 21:14 |
Shara |
while they* |
| 21:16 |
tumeninodes |
yes, they are annoying. wasted a whole 3 seconds of my life... I feel... so empty inside now |
| 21:16 |
* twoelk |
wonders wether he should publish some of his concept papers to push his projects forwards |
| 21:17 |
tumeninodes |
twoelk should just make a few dozen "coming soon" posts :P |
| 21:18 |
* twoelk |
starts counting |
| 21:19 |
twoelk |
well if my memory doesn't fail me I might be still under half a dozen of unfullfiled promisses on the forums |
| 21:21 |
tumeninodes |
me too... with texture packs, but I am still working on them. And at least had the basic textures done, just not too excited about making new tool textures |
| 21:21 |
sofar |
choosing the right time to release is hard |
| 21:21 |
tumeninodes |
although I just lost a bunch of stuff I was working on, |
| 21:22 |
sofar |
I have a project that's been unfinished but releasable already for 4+ months I think |
| 21:22 |
* sofar |
cringes |
| 21:22 |
tumeninodes |
it can be but, there should at least be "something to release" once an announcement/post is made |
| 21:23 |
sofar |
nore: you don't do a good job of guilt-tripping people to get them back on track again |
| 21:23 |
sofar |
maybe I should delegate that responsibility to VanessaE |
| 21:23 |
VanessaE |
... |
| 21:24 |
tumeninodes |
just think about all the poor, sad, crying children waiting |
| 21:24 |
sofar |
more of an adult/older targeted project |
| 21:24 |
tumeninodes |
same perspective |
| 21:25 |
sofar |
making adults cry is a life goal |
| 21:25 |
tumeninodes |
making children cry is far easier... (sometimes) |
| 21:25 |
tumeninodes |
and more satisfying :P |
| 21:25 |
twoelk |
well in mt if the chunk unloads the carts sort of vanish from the tracks --- so if my life unloads some activity chunks my cartloads of ideas just loose tracks quite seriously |
| 21:25 |
sofar |
making kids laugh and adults cry is far more satisfying than making kids cry and adults laugh |
| 21:26 |
tumeninodes |
I will take this into consideration |
| 21:26 |
sofar |
not to mention beneficial to society |
| 21:26 |
sofar |
you don't change adults by making them laugh |
| 21:26 |
sofar |
just look at Colbert |
| 21:26 |
sofar |
you don't change kids for the better by making them cry either |
| 21:27 |
tumeninodes |
society would be far better off with no adults |
| 21:27 |
sofar |
someone who says that hasn't properly adulted yet |
| 21:27 |
tumeninodes |
just for the record, I am a kid person... |
| 21:27 |
tumeninodes |
thpltpltplt |
| 21:28 |
tumeninodes |
most adults today are poor examples for children |
| 21:28 |
sofar |
no surprise that you are barely an adolescent :P |
| 21:28 |
tumeninodes |
har |
| 21:29 |
sofar |
alright, time to adult for me - meeting excavator and grading inspector |
| 21:29 |
* sofar |
afks |
| 21:29 |
tumeninodes |
my twisted humor often gives a different impression of who I am |
| 21:29 |
twoelk |
sounds like exciting times for sofar :-P |
| 21:31 |
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| 21:31 |
* twoelk |
decides to drive home |
| 21:31 |
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| 21:31 |
tumeninodes |
excavators love to "meet" |
| 21:32 |
tumeninodes |
is off to go make some children cry |
| 21:32 |
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| 21:35 |
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| 21:45 |
benrob0329 |
paramat: that screenshot you posted is a bad example, as it looks like the shading it coming from the lamp :PP |
| 21:45 |
benrob0329 |
which is something i would love to have, mind you |
| 21:47 |
KaadmY |
benrob0329: yeah, but it is an issue |
| 21:48 |
benrob0329 |
yes, sunlight should be seperate from artificial light |
| 21:48 |
benrob0329 |
and that would solve it |
| 21:48 |
KaadmY |
I can't do it right now though ;( |
| 21:48 |
benrob0329 |
and that is the problem with the solution |
| 21:48 |
KaadmY |
Minetest's meshgen only gives enough data to find day/night (regardless of indoor-ness) and the RGB color |
| 21:49 |
KaadmY |
And the color isn't deterministic enough to get the light level |
| 21:49 |
KaadmY |
Since it changes with the baked AO |
| 21:50 |
KaadmY |
I might be able to embed an artificial light factor into the day/night ratio |
| 21:50 |
KaadmY |
Yeah right now the shader-side blue tint at night is really hacky |
| 21:51 |
KaadmY |
It uses the vertex's color |
| 21:51 |
KaadmY |
(R + G + B) / 3 |
| 21:51 |
KaadmY |
And even that doesn't care about outdoors |
| 21:51 |
KaadmY |
It's just the light level |
| 21:53 |
KaadmY |
Lemme see if I can "merge" two numbers into one |
| 21:53 |
paramat |
added a better screenshot. it's a shame it doesn't work underground (yet) |
| 21:53 |
benrob0329 |
indoor light that isnt shining through a window should have a warn (or cold. if its a cool white) glow to it |
| 21:53 |
benrob0329 |
*warm |
| 21:54 |
KaadmY |
benrob0329: right now artificial light is already *slightly* brighter than outdoors |
| 21:54 |
KaadmY |
I could make that yellowish, might have artifacts though |
| 21:54 |
paramat |
obviously, underground or completely indoor areas should be unchanged from current behaviour |
| 21:54 |
* benrob0329 |
rebuilds shading branch |
| 21:55 |
benrob0329 |
paramat: unless fully directional shading became a thing, which would be awesome (though well beyond the current code base afaik) |
| 21:56 |
paramat |
no please don't start recoluring lighting, we put a lot of effort into making sure it remained unchanged recently during hardware colouring changes, and even then some have noticed an undesirable change |
| 21:57 |
KaadmY |
paramat: why is having tinted artificial light an issue? |
| 21:57 |
paramat |
best not even hope for a new lighting system, no-one has time for unnecessary big changes |
| 21:57 |
KaadmY |
Why does CPU and GPU have to be identical... |
| 21:58 |
paramat |
because players and users are used to the current colouring and do not want some sickly yellow tinting or for colours to look different |
| 21:59 |
paramat |
such as Shara |
| 21:59 |
rubenwardy |
erm |
| 21:59 |
rubenwardy |
graphics settings? |
| 22:00 |
benrob0329 |
current indoor lighting already has a warm glow... |
| 22:00 |
KaadmY |
Yay got a way to encode multiple values from 0-1 in a single float |
| 22:02 |
paramat |
well settings sure, like tone mapping, but a PR that applies directional shading should not alter colours, because that is not part of the feature |
| 22:03 |
Shara |
Would actually love to see proper coloured lighting. |
| 22:03 |
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| 22:03 |
Shara |
But I know the odds of that. |
| 22:05 |
paramat |
yes artificial light is already warmer, colours are fine as they are |
| 22:09 |
KaadmY |
paramat: ah, that logic makes more sense. |
| 22:12 |
paramat |
sorry i was unclear. i mean tinted artificial light is fine 'on demand', but i'm saying don't change the colour appearence of a certain environment with a certin lighting |
| 22:14 |
KaadmY |
Examples? |
| 22:14 |
KaadmY |
Not sure I'm getting that idea yet |
| 22:14 |
paramat |
i tend to be careful about colour, because during the hardware colouring PR MT colour appearence changed slightly and i had to make a fuss to make sure it was tuned to be a very close match to before |
| 22:16 |
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| 22:18 |
paramat |
erm, i'm saying, please don't change the colour of daylight or artificial light in MT (although you probably were not going to anyway), both are fine as they are and we try very hard to preserve them |
| 22:27 |
paramat |
.. unless of course you are coding an optional shader feature that is meant to alter colours, such as tone mapping |
| 22:28 |
paramat |
i'm referring to the colouring effect of the basic nodes shader, the basic nods shader that gets enabled when you enable the master checkbox on the settings page |
| 22:28 |
paramat |
*nodes |
