| Time |
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| 01:09 |
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| 02:54 |
MTDiscord |
<paradust> Variable sized stack arrays are just asking for trouble |
| 02:54 |
MTDiscord |
<paradust> That code would be better off just using std::vector<std::string> |
| 04:00 |
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| 05:58 |
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| 06:54 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> @rubenwardy fair enough, but I don't think it's a healthy approach. I've personally spent these days getting anxious as 5.10 issues/PRs kept rising. I've also tried helping with a couple of PRs to speed up the process. If the goal is to deliver when the date is reached, we should be ready at least a couple of days earlier |
| 06:56 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> If, after a couple of attempts, we see it's not feasible for us, we should reconsider the approach. But we should try at least.. |
| 07:00 |
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| 08:22 |
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| 08:23 |
rubenwardy |
How's that going |
| 08:37 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> "That" what? |
| 08:40 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> If you're talking about the milestone, I guess the main blocker is #15294. We need that in for the release candidate |
| 08:40 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15294 -- Rename to Luanti by grorp |
| 08:40 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Otherwise is pointless |
| 08:43 |
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| 09:28 |
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| 12:09 |
nore |
Btw, do we have a time for the meeting today? |
| 12:23 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Huh, I forgot to create the note. But I'd say 18:00 UTC as always nore |
| 12:25 |
nore |
That's what I was expecting but thanks for the confirmation! |
| 12:28 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Np c: |
| 12:41 |
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| 12:48 |
grorp |
merging #15294 in 15 min 👀 |
| 12:48 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15294 -- Rename to Luanti by grorp |
| 13:03 |
sfan5 |
I have tested #15341 now and will merge it after grorp's merge |
| 13:03 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15341 -- Android: update used NDK and SDL support code by sfan5 |
| 13:05 |
grorp |
done |
| 14:25 |
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| 15:36 |
SFENCE |
From now I am playing/testing Luanti-5.10-signature-candidate.app ... |
| 15:47 |
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| 16:06 |
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| 16:17 |
SFENCE |
@sfan5: For #15303, Looks like I can move for example IRROBJ sources to IrrlichtMT STATIC and it with one condition should to fix build also. Sounds it good to you? http://pastie.org/p/5FMrqqCjjSU8P5T6f8bwWC |
| 16:17 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15303 -- Support generation of working Xcode project for signature purposes on MacOS by sfence |
| 16:31 |
sfan5 |
the if(CMAKE_GENERATOR STREQUAL "Xcode") ... is the only change? |
| 16:36 |
SFENCE |
No, IRROBJ sources was moved to IrrlichtMt. I have to move at least one source to it. |
| 16:37 |
sfan5 |
hm :/ |
| 16:38 |
sfan5 |
what's the exact problem we get otherwise? is there a cmake bug report for it? |
| 16:39 |
SFENCE |
Yes, 6 years old, two years inactive. |
| 16:40 |
SFENCE |
It works with object library as static ones. And is not able to generate command to combine multiple static lirbaries into one if no source is in IrrlichtMt. |
| 16:41 |
SFENCE_arch |
https://gitlab.kitware.com/cmake/cmake/-/issues/17500 |
| 16:49 |
sfan5 |
I see |
| 16:50 |
sfan5 |
I suppose moving a few sources to the library target is okay |
| 16:50 |
SFENCE |
Ok. |
| 16:51 |
sfan5 |
in the bigger picture a possible alternative is to let cmake link minetest into a static library. and we generate an xcode project that merely combines this into a finished app |
| 16:51 |
sfan5 |
maybe this could also avoid duplicating the asset copying code? |
| 17:08 |
SFENCE |
Maybe. I am not sure. Can try. In that case duplication of the asset copying code will be moved to Xcode project. |
| 17:09 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> reminder: meeting in about 50 minutes |
| 17:10 |
SFENCE |
I am afraid about .dSYM file generation in that solution. |
| 17:11 |
sfan5 |
if the current solution works that's fine. no need to try. |
| 17:12 |
SFENCE |
It looks fine. CI is running. I was able to compile Luanti under cmake, Xcode and Xcode archive with that. |
| 18:00 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> dlin-dlon, meeting time |
| 18:00 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> bonjour |
| 18:03 |
nore |
hello! |
| 18:04 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> > renaming progress |
| 18:04 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Basically #15322 |
| 18:04 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15322 -- Minetest → Luanti rename checklist |
| 18:05 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> I can't touch GitHub description, probably only celeron55 can. But in general it'd make more sense if done once the migration has taken place |
| 18:05 |
SFENCE_arch |
We also should regenerate translation files. There are changes related to it. |
| 18:06 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> about the wikis, I took the opportunity to make the scope a little bigger (2nd point of the topic) https://forum.luanti.org/viewtopic.php?p=440220&sid=b35e2a639ac76f1ed794d3bc379f08f0#p440220 |
| 18:06 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> What about minetest.* -> core.* e.g. in devtest code? |
| 18:07 |
SFENCE_arch |
luatic: will be good to have. Also headers update. It will be easier to check where minetest is still used with grep after it. |
| 18:08 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Yeah, I think it'd also be good to set a good example in devtest code. I'd like to eventually recommend devtest code as sort of a collection of examples for modders to look at. |
| 18:08 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> (of course footnotes apply and not everything in devtest is best practice ;)) |
| 18:08 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> I'll add a point in Wuzzy's message |
| 18:09 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> done |
| 18:09 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I can do a PR for that |
| 18:09 |
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| 18:10 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> sure thing |
| 18:11 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> do we know when the GH migration is going to happen? |
| 18:11 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I don't |
| 18:11 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> or, most importantly, the website? Showcasing just a few memes is meh |
| 18:12 |
SFENCE_arch |
Zughy: So it means replacing mod forum threads by feedback in CDB? |
| 18:12 |
nore |
I tried to grep minetest in the engine, there are still quite a bit of places where minetest is still used |
| 18:12 |
ROllerozxa |
SFENCE_arch: CDB has threads support in addition to reviews |
| 18:12 |
ROllerozxa |
(basically every package gets its own forum section, essentially) |
| 18:13 |
nore |
just found at least a place that was missed by the rename (opening a PR) |
| 18:13 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> ty nore |
| 18:14 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> have we considered a small official compat mod under the minetest / luanti umbrella? |
| 18:15 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> sometimes we make changes which then turn out to be annoying / modders accidentally use new features, needlessly making their content incompatible with older versions. see e.g. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15337#issuecomment-2439719896, or the hud_elem_type rename. |
| 18:15 |
nore |
#15345 |
| 18:15 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15345 -- Fix missing rename by Ekdohibs |
| 18:15 |
SFENCE_arch |
ROllerozxa: Oh this one. I see it being used on for approval feedback. Never come to my mind, it can be used as forum also. :D |
| 18:16 |
ROllerozxa |
Merging and downsizing the wikis sounds like a good idea, basically finishing what I was trying to do with my wiki cleanups |
| 18:16 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> a thin compat mod could address such things with less of a hassle. the advantage of it basically is that a compat mod is easier to distribute (via cdb) to all users than a new minetest version. |
| 18:17 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> luatic: do we really want to add more work on our shoulders? |
| 18:17 |
ROllerozxa |
(by the way, there's a massive amount of spam on the wiki because of an old compromised account. I don't have page deletion privs anymore so I'll just mention it here) |
| 18:17 |
nore |
I also found a couple place where minetest is still mentionned in strings for error messages and so on but I didn't fix them in this PR, as the PR here is a trivial bugfix |
| 18:19 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Zughy: Valid concern. I would try to keep the scope of this mod very limited. |
| 18:20 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> question n°2: won't something like this bring more people to try to break compatibility because there's the mod anyway? |
| 18:20 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> n°3: isn't this more work for anyone opening a PR? |
| 18:20 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> maybe not breaking compatibility, but certainly propose debatable implementations relying on the mod |
| 18:21 |
nore |
what would we want in such a mod? |
| 18:22 |
nore |
just an alias `minetest = core`, or something else as well? |
| 18:22 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> 2. breaking compatibility no (though part of the idea is to help mitigate accidental breakages), deprecating things more eagerly or adding convenience features yes |
| 18:22 |
celeron55 |
i tried to browse through the discussion to see if anyone talked about adding the luanti.org domain to minetest.github.io so that the domain could be pointed to github pages |
| 18:22 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> 3. not necessarily, the mod could be separately / independently maintained |
| 18:23 |
ROllerozxa |
we're moving the landing page to luanti.org now? :D |
| 18:23 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> nore: mitigations for accidental backwards compatibility breakages or overzealous deprecations as well as "porting" convenience (lua-only) features to older versions |
| 18:24 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> e.g. consider #15337, there are 3 options for how to deal with it: |
| 18:24 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15337 -- Make `options` of `core.read_schematic` optional |
| 18:24 |
celeron55 |
ROllerozxa: well it would be nice to have the same content on luanti.org that's on minetest.net, no? |
| 18:24 |
nore |
ah, yes |
| 18:26 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> 1. reject it on the grounds that such convenience features could lead modders to unnecessarily be incompatible with older versions; |
| 18:26 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> 2. accept it, expect modders to do their due diligence (testing on older versions, using API references for older versions they want to support); |
| 18:26 |
ROllerozxa |
celeron55: yeah. well, I don't know if github pages allows putting two CNAMEs for a repo so I was assuming it would be moved and minetest.net will then redirect to luanti.org |
| 18:26 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> 3. sort of a compromise, accept it but also implement it in an official compat layer mod so if a mod / game does happen to use it without its presence, this can be mitigated by fetching a fresh version of the compat mod, which can be distributed as part of a game via cdb with much less hassle than shipping a new version of minetest to end users e.g. on "stable" distros |
| 18:28 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> luatic: I guess it makes more sense to either open an issue about it or topic in the forums |
| 18:28 |
celeron55 |
ROllerozxa: well, that's a possibility also, of course. i'm just surprised nobody has generally brought it up yet |
| 18:28 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> tbh this idea could even be taken one step further: what if a part of builtin, e.g. the pure lua utilities, was a separately upgradeable mod? |
| 18:29 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Zughy: sure, will do |
| 18:29 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> more issues/discussions about the renaming or should we move to the next topic? |
| 18:29 |
nore |
well, while the 3rd solution looks like a good thing to have, it will probably mean additional work to keep in sync |
| 18:32 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> next then: feature freeze progress |
| 18:32 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/milestone/24 |
| 18:33 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> grorp is waiting for my feedback to merge #15330 , as we're running a test today on our server |
| 18:33 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15330 -- Fix server steps shorter than dedicated_server_step since #13370 by grorp |
| 18:36 |
SFENCE |
So if new web site will be avaliable, should we change also URL adress in READMEs etc? |
| 18:39 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Yes I guess |
| 18:39 |
nore |
#15290 is good with me but sfan5 or grorp probably want to approve since they already reviewed |
| 18:39 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15290 -- Fix newline rejection and whitespace trimming for chat messages by chmodsayshello |
| 18:40 |
sfan5 |
(just waiting for a second approval since it's essentially my code now) |
| 18:40 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> About the feature freeze in general: can we agree on releasing a release candidate today and release during the next meeting? So that, if more things like #15345 pops up, we'll have plenty of time to fix them |
| 18:40 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15345 -- Fix missing rename by Ekdohibs |
| 18:41 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> *pop up |
| 18:42 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> #15345 is unproblematic as far as I can tell, it's just a very minor code style issue..? |
| 18:42 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15345 -- Fix missing rename by Ekdohibs |
| 18:42 |
nore |
sfan5: put an approval, in that case |
| 18:42 |
nore |
I think #15345 won't cause any problems as long as we keep the minetest = core alias |
| 18:42 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15345 -- Fix missing rename by Ekdohibs |
| 18:43 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> yep |
| 18:43 |
nore |
it's not a problem if it ends up even in the release, it's more like a bug-in-waiting |
| 18:44 |
nore |
(which we would only find in the long-term future) |
| 18:44 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Right. But surely we can't release today. An official version I mean |
| 18:47 |
nore |
yeah, an official release seems difficult |
| 18:47 |
nore |
I'd be for releasing a release candidate as well however, to get time to fix the last few issues/things in the milestone |
| 18:47 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> there are some things i'd still like to get in a RC though it doesn't matter terribly much i suppose |
| 18:48 |
nore |
but having an RC for at least a week before the actual release seems like a good thing to have in case we uncover some bugs due to the rename |
| 18:48 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> nore: if i'm not mistaken, we still have two weeks |
| 18:49 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> i mean we could also do a RC1 and a RC2 where the latter possibly contains like one or two more smaller fixes |
| 18:49 |
nore |
yes, so an RC at most in the upcoming week if we want to get some things in and release in two weeks :) |
| 18:49 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> I suppose a RC is less work for us compared to an official one |
| 18:50 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> I mean actually releasing it |
| 18:50 |
nore |
the animation blending bugfix would probably be good to have merged soon but I don't know that part of the code so it will be hard for me to review |
| 18:51 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> nore: well, it is cursed. |
| 18:52 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> i have a much harder to review proper fix in the works but that currently breaks .x and maybe another thing and i don't know why yet so it's not an option for 5.10 |
| 18:53 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> the "simple" fix essentially works by combining code which is already there in the way it would be used if a certain workaround was employed (overriding any bone in any way, no matter how minuscule). |
| 18:54 |
Desour |
>if i'm not mistaken, we still have two weeks   <--- feature freeze is supposed to only take 2 weeks. so we've already reached the deadline |
| 18:54 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> if we trust that code to be good enough (tbh i don't entirely, but it seems to work) the correctness of my PR follows. |
| 18:54 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> well, correctness is too strong a word here. less brokenness. |
| 18:55 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Desour: feature freeze was started a while ago already |
| 18:55 |
Desour |
where a while = 2 weeks, I know |
| 18:56 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> well the feature freeze was started early tbh |
| 18:56 |
nore |
ah, I see better how it is supposed to work now |
| 18:56 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> because we still have two weeks for a 3 month release schedule |
| 18:57 |
Desour |
for a 2-3 month schedule, which was taken as 2.5 |
| 18:58 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> that's silly, obviously 2-3 is -1 |
| 18:59 |
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cx384 joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:59 |
nore |
I'm good with #15267 if the hack fixes the bug (especially if you intend to do a cleaner solution later), but I'm not sure how to test that |
| 18:59 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15267 -- Fix animation blending by appgurueu |
| 19:01 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Desour: rubenwardy put the wrong date because he thought we could never make it in time and I've noticed only today |
| 19:02 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> I mean, I don't blame him, but hey, we're actually in time! |
| 19:02 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> *on time |
| 19:10 |
pgimeno |
how about issuing some kind of deprecation warning (possibly debug-level) in case _G.minetest is accessed? |
| 19:11 |
Desour |
please no |
| 19:12 |
Desour |
for that to not trigger you'd need *all* of your mods to not use `minetest` anymore |
| 19:12 |
Desour |
which is out of your control unless you're making a new subgame |
| 19:12 |
Desour |
just use luacheck instead |
| 19:12 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> yeah we're not doing that anytime soon |
| 19:13 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> luacheck is a good point though, since there's a minetest standard now, that might need updating to support core |
| 19:14 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> yep it needs a core = minetest, i'll take care of it |
| 19:14 |
cx384 |
Maybe it would be good to have a hide deprecation warning setting to not annoy people. |
| 19:14 |
cx384 |
*warnings |
| 19:23 |
sfan5 |
deprecation warnings are currently well hidden |
| 19:23 |
sfan5 |
#15209 |
| 19:23 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15209 -- Stuff printed at 'warning' log level is essentially invisible to normal users |
| 19:23 |
sfan5 |
...so well that many modders don't even know of them |
| 19:24 |
Desour |
and if you set chat log level to warning, you're suddenly spammed |
| 19:24 |
Desour |
we'd need some kind of per mod setting |
| 19:26 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Yeah please don't, our server console would be spammed |
| 19:26 |
Desour |
@luatic: you've shown interest in #15115 in the past. kind reminder, if you want to review before release. :) (haven't added it to milestone because it's not a blocker) |
| 19:26 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15115 -- Add a setting to group transparency sorted triangles by buffer by Desour |
| 19:26 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> So RC next Sunday? |
| 19:26 |
sfan5 |
or tomorrow? |
| 19:26 |
sfan5 |
no use in waiting |
| 19:27 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Or now? :^] |
| 19:27 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> [@grorp:matrix.org](https://matrix.to/#/@grorp:matrix.org) your PR works like a charm, it can be merged |
| 19:28 |
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hwpplayer1 joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:29 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Can we please avoid PRs like #15346? We need a cool logotype, sure, but none of you is able to deliver it - unless you've got some background in graphics |
| 19:29 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15346 -- Improve menu_header.png slightly by Desour |
| 19:31 |
Desour |
:( |
| 19:32 |
Desour |
why this elitism? |
| 19:32 |
Krock |
https://www.imghost.net/ib/yardSMQib44znpA_1730057529.png |
| 19:32 |
Krock |
I call myself an artist now |
| 19:33 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> I don't want to be mean, but it's been since the beginning of grorp's PR that people started getting crazy about the logotype, even putting more attention on that than on the code |
| 19:33 |
sfan5 |
let's cut this short and let me ask: will we have a new logotype ready for 5.10? |
| 19:33 |
Krock |
a forum post could speed that up |
| 19:34 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> It's not elitism, it's like if I opened a complex PR that is pretty bad code and expect to be a developer like you or any other core dev: it doesn't work like that and you can clearly see that my code is bad |
| 19:34 |
Desour |
we could also leave that PR open and let other people post suggestions, and before release we take the most popular |
| 19:35 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> sfan5: I definitely don't have the time. Can we stick with a crappy one like we did for years in the meanwhile? Otherwise we could ask Lemente (a community member actually skilled in graphic design) |
| 19:36 |
sfan5 |
i think the one we have is basic and okay for that |
| 19:36 |
sfan5 |
and unless we will have a new one ready I think adding minor cool details doesn't hurt |
| 19:36 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Desour: big no, I won't have devs decide yet another design. See what's happened with the main menu |
| 19:36 |
sfan5 |
i don't expect more logo bikeshedding to happen |
| 19:37 |
sfan5 |
(or if it does, we should stop it) |
| 19:37 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> In general please stop seeing art as something anybody can pull in no time just because they have hands and eyes |
| 19:37 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> (Or feet?) |
| 19:39 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> It's also something that takes time. In general people propose a couple of options and then you see them bikeshed by the client. Here "client" is a big devs community, so that's even worse (no offence) |
| 19:40 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> It's like the renaming issue: we suggested people to avoid things like "mine", " free" and "voxel" and yet.. |
| 19:40 |
cx384 |
A general main menu redesign was/is planed right? I think it would be good to come up with a better Luanti text at the same time. |
| 19:41 |
Krock |
I'd have preferred to keep Minetest but decided to just not take part of any of this discussion. |
| 19:41 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> More than 300 comments on GH, and the issue has been blocked to (I think) avoid more bikeshedding |
| 19:41 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> (re cx384) |
| 19:42 |
Desour |
@Zughy: I just don't see how improving the header slightly would hurt though. I never said it was a masterpiece, and I of course didn't spend days to design it, or years to learn how to design things like this in a way they look better |
| 19:43 |
sfan5 |
if I understand correctly the argument is "it suggests a blocky look for luanti which is something we don't want"? |
| 19:43 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> I expect more PRs like that popping up, with more people who think to be art critiques joining the discussion |
| 19:49 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> But sure, if it's just one PR, why not |
| 19:49 |
Desour |
luanti has always been a hobbyist project. most art, like textures and models, was made by amateurs. nonetheless things never looked too unpleasing for the average player |
| 19:49 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> I'll ask Lemente in the meanwhile |
| 19:49 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> *the average dev. I've been to enough conventions to tell you that people are put off by the main menu, and I don't even try to use the default texture pack |
| 19:49 |
Desour |
I don't see why one could not criticize art if one just one's subjective opinion. do I first need to learn how to look? and if yes, does everything look like shit to you now? |
| 19:49 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> See why I didn't want to start discussions like that? |
| 19:49 |
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| 19:49 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> I'm clearly the minority in here, which already requires some mental preparation to avoid saying things in the wrong way. Then I get accused of elitism, than of seeing that everything is shit |
| 19:49 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> *then |
| 19:49 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> *saying |
| 19:50 |
Desour |
I see how this can become lengthy. but I would like to understand you better |
| 19:51 |
Desour |
I hope a bigger understanding would help in the long term |
| 19:51 |
Desour |
or if not managing to understand, at least knowing your perspective |
| 19:53 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> bottom line is, aesthetics is complicated and I'm not aesthetics professor to express myself properly about that |
| 19:53 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> *not an |
| 19:54 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> About doing art: art is, like e.g. translation, a matter of experience. Expecting that someone makes a piece of art without no background whatsoever is irrealistic |
| 19:54 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> *unrealistic, aaaaa |
| 19:55 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> about appreciating art: we're mostly a niche of devs and I don't think that the general dev taste is what it's needed to be appreciated by the vast public |
| 19:56 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> I'm not saying you can't make art. Everyone can and should |
| 19:57 |
Desour |
ah, so you have knowledge of what looks good to the general public, and is independent of your personal taste? |
| 19:59 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> For what its worth, I'm not sure its worth bikeshedding this right now. A marginally better header typeface isn't going to fix the UI that people dislike. Like someone already mentioned, it could be included in other improvements, but at the very least it can be replaced after 5.10. |
| 19:59 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> I have theoretical knowledge and practical (also professional) experience, so that gives me more experience than the average user in here. I might not like a specific art style, but I think I'm mature enough to say "It's not my cup of tea, but it's really well made" |
| 20:00 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> E.g. I don't like medieval stuff, but Dark Souls art is great |
| 20:00 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> I'd say amazing |
| 20:07 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> So, RC today? |
| 20:13 |
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| 20:27 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> for what it's worth: Lemente might be up for the thing |
| 20:32 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I'd be very grateful if we could get something designed by someone with a bit of experience in graphic design. |
| 20:33 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Only if it doesnt delay 5.10 |
| 20:34 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> A timely release takes priority, yes. But we have some time. |
| 20:35 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> agreed with greenxenith. It seems that the PR is going in a nice direction, so we can stick with that |
| 20:43 |
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| 20:47 |
Wuzzy |
I'm stuck in the PR rebase for the Luanti builtin update PR: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/15324 |
| 20:48 |
Wuzzy |
namely, there are two conflicting names in the credits and I don't known which I need to pick. @grorp |
| 20:49 |
[MatrxMT] |
<grorp> replied on github |
| 20:51 |
celeron55 |
Wuzzy: #15331 |
| 20:51 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15331 -- Rename erle as requested by celeron55 |
| 20:51 |
celeron55 |
(lol, github adding "by celeron55" to the website title makes that sound pretty confusing) |
| 21:03 |
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| 21:05 |
rubenwardy |
@Zughy it was never the wrong date, target was 2-3 not 3 |
| 21:06 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> huh. I guess sticking with 3 is a safe option |
| 21:06 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> sorry for what I've said earlier then |
| 21:09 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Completely separate topic and I dont want to bikeshed it too hard but: IMO, the logo we have is fine for Luanti (it represents a slice of a world you could create with it), and frankly logo changes are harder to propagate and keeping it helps SEO. However, I think the MTG logo should be changed to also separate from the engine. Maybe a mese block or something. Just throwing it out there. Might be controversial :^) |
| 21:11 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Bonus: If the MTG logo were changed, the engine logo could be integrated into the header. |
| 21:11 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> (credit to dragonop for that idea) |
| 21:11 |
MTDiscord |
<nop__> Jumping here as well to add I propose adding the Luanti Logo to the menu_header (logo + name) |
| 21:11 |
MTDiscord |
<nop__> Ah beat me to it |
| 21:23 |
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