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| 17:25 |
Krock |
Meeting in 35 minutes for those who would like to attend. |
| 17:26 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Present, if there's anything to talk about (I've been pretty busy lately) |
| 17:29 |
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| 17:56 |
sfan5 |
good suggestions welcome: #15209 |
| 17:56 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15209 -- Stuff printed at 'warning' log level is essentially invisible to normal users |
| 17:57 |
Krock |
I didn't realize that chat_log_level wasn't already at warning level |
| 17:58 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Since there are no meeting points: I've written a draft for the name change today, waiting for rubenwardy to double check it. grorp seemed fine with it. It'd be nice it we could move forward during the meeting |
| 17:58 |
Krock |
at least deprecated_lua_api_handling is "log" by default |
| 17:58 |
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| 17:58 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I set chat_log_level to warning before I was a core dev |
| 17:59 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> And I also usually start Minetest in a terminal when testing stuff, be it engine or mod stuff |
| 17:59 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I think it is sensible not to want to spam users with deprecation warnings |
| 17:59 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> But modders should be made more aware of these settings and encouraged to start Minetest in a terminal |
| 18:00 |
sfan5 |
what kind of last century application encourages you to start it in a terminal? |
| 18:00 |
Krock |
there's a noticeable amount of modders that very likely develop on Windows, outside the terminal with default settings |
| 18:00 |
sfan5 |
(and isn't a terminal app itself) |
| 18:01 |
Krock |
Minetest used to start with a terminal/console in the past, but that's no longer the case for 2+ years |
| 18:02 |
Krock |
Meeting start. Pinging those who reacted. Zughy, @luatic |
| 18:03 |
Krock |
any topics? |
| 18:03 |
* sfan5 |
afk (sorry) |
| 18:03 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> sfan5: There are multiple convenience reasons why I like starting Minetest via the terminal. For one, I can just do minetest --worldname ... --go. |
| 18:03 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> For two, I get the stack trace / warnings / prints etc. nicely in the terminal right next to my editor. If I start Minetest from the integrated terminal, I can directly shift click "file:line" references to go there. |
| 18:04 |
Krock |
other developers will copy the text from the error textarea[] in the mainmenu |
| 18:11 |
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| 18:13 |
pgimeno |
is the name change happening today? |
| 18:15 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> unlikely, I was only suggesting to tackle the TODO bullet point list we have |
| 18:21 |
MTDiscord |
<theidealist> what name change |
| 18:23 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Might be a good time to bring up the core namespace I mentioned the other day |
| 18:27 |
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| 18:28 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> That mention being "It may be a good idea to officialize the core namespace rather than add another namespace." |
| 18:28 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> With which v-rob agreed, at least |
| 18:29 |
pgimeno |
I agree too but IANACD |
| 18:29 |
Krock |
Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers |
| 18:30 |
Krock |
"I am not a core dev" |
| 18:30 |
pgimeno |
^ |
| 18:39 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I guess someone could give their input on #11391. TL;DR is: PR works and makes sense and essentially fixes up a feature (allows for consistent collision boxes for large plantlike rooted nodes), but if the feature is used, raycasts take twice as long. |
| 18:39 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11391 -- Add support for static boxes in 'leveled' type; add node box types 'leveled_plantlike[_rooted]' by Wuzzy2 |
| 18:40 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I'm not happy with the hack or the performance hit, but I could imagine this being useful to some who don't mind it. I think if the performance implications are documented it would be acceptable, but I don't feel strongly about it. |
| 18:41 |
celeron55 |
the core namespace was added to support different names of forks, and I think it should be used just like that for a different official name also. having the official name in the code might have a slight marketing benefit when people share code, but I don't think it overcomes the downsides |
| 18:43 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> +1 ^ |
| 18:45 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I'm fine with core.*, rip minetest.* |
| 18:50 |
MTDiscord |
<theidealist> how about minecore as the official name |
| 18:50 |
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| 19:02 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> celeron55: should it be you the one that reserves the name in the other git platform? |
| 19:06 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> I've linked the draft in the internal discussion |
| 19:11 |
celeron55 |
well, I suppose I should, to avoid having to figure out who will |
| 19:12 |
celeron55 |
it's just that I don't even have an account there yet. I'll have a look |
| 19:13 |
[ |
I don't see the point of a rename |
| 19:14 |
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| 19:16 |
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| 19:19 |
Krock |
@luatic What's the cause of the raycast performance drop? I don't see any code part that would be critical in this regard |
| 19:19 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Krock: This vastly increases the size of the selection box union in a typical game (MTG): Selection boxes can now be 16 nodes high. Thus many more nodes need to be checked. |
| 19:20 |
Krock |
@luatic Selection boxes should be limited the same way as collision boxes. 3m into each direction. |
| 19:21 |
Krock |
or was it 1.5m? |
| 19:21 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Well they aren't. Rather, performance depends on how large the union of all possible selection boxes is. |
| 19:22 |
Krock |
would limiting it be a bad idea? |
| 19:22 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> It would sort of defeats the purpose of that PR, which is to allow for relatively large selection boxes, matching the large visuals for these nodes. |
| 19:23 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Though arguably I think that having (visually) 16 node high nodes was a design mistake in the first place. |
| 19:23 |
Krock |
physics won't work on those so I don't think such feature has priority whatsoever - at least for anything outside the collision check range. |
| 19:24 |
Krock |
the visual appearance is not necessarily bound to a selection box, which the rooted nodes already show. |
| 19:25 |
Krock |
although levelled is assumed to be rather solid, thus having an equally sited selection box does make sense. hmm. |
| 19:26 |
Krock |
s/sited/sized/ |
| 19:27 |
celeron55 |
by having a massive selection box you risk making it impossible to select nearby nodes |
| 19:27 |
Krock |
celeron55: I suppose that's a problem for modders to solve |
| 19:27 |
celeron55 |
but of course if the node actually manages all that space, then it shouldn't be an issue |
| 19:27 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> it does visually occupy that space |
| 19:27 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> think a large kelp plant |
| 19:28 |
Krock |
you could hide other nodes inside of it :3 |
| 19:28 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> yes lol |
| 19:28 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> this is part of the reason i don't think multiple node large nodes are a particularly good idea |
| 19:48 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> I've just closed all the meeting discussions in the Discussions section, so that only things that are still relevant are displayed |
| 19:48 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> speaking of which, I guess some of you want to check out some "old" security reports that are still there |
| 19:58 |
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| 20:38 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> re: namespace, fwiw you can use a metatable to deprecate the namespace. on __index, send a warning and unset the metatable |
| 20:39 |
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| 20:52 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> celeron55: I'm not quite clear on what you mean with "I think it should be used just like that for a different official name also" |
| 20:54 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Is that a "core should continue to be used outside of the official name", or "a different official name is like a fork name so core can be used"? |
| 20:55 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> I've also added a comment in the discussion, so that people can express their opinions |
| 20:57 |
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| 21:00 |
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| 21:00 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> I see I'm late to the party, but I'll post some of my thoughts. Re #11392: I think the "rooted" nodes aren't exactly a good approach, at least not to everything. I think we really need proper liquidlogged nodes, this way or another. If it would take a map format change, we could take a hit at light banks at that point and add colored lighting of course. |
| 21:00 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11392 -- Allow keyboard only use of formspecs |
| 21:02 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> Also I'm once again mentioning #14543 |
| 21:02 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14543 -- Add gameid aliases by nauta-turbidus |
| 21:03 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> And I'd like some core devs to take a look at (and respond to) #15176, at least in terms of opinions on what should be done. |
| 21:03 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15176 -- Decouple Ambient Occlusion from Shadows |
| 21:03 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> Any responses would be very welcome. |
| 21:17 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Zughy: I wasn't expecting the mass amount of email notifications from your mass discussion closing x) |
| 21:17 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> oh, I'm sorry for that :( |
| 21:18 |
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MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Not a big deal, I just never expected to get jumpscared by 90 new inbox messages |
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