Time Nick Message 17:25 Krock Meeting in 35 minutes for those who would like to attend. 17:26 [MatrxMT] Present, if there's anything to talk about (I've been pretty busy lately) 17:56 sfan5 good suggestions welcome: #15209 17:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15209 -- Stuff printed at 'warning' log level is essentially invisible to normal users 17:57 Krock I didn't realize that chat_log_level wasn't already at warning level 17:58 [MatrxMT] Since there are no meeting points: I've written a draft for the name change today, waiting for rubenwardy to double check it. grorp seemed fine with it. It'd be nice it we could move forward during the meeting 17:58 Krock at least deprecated_lua_api_handling is "log" by default 17:58 MTDiscord I set chat_log_level to warning before I was a core dev 17:59 MTDiscord And I also usually start Minetest in a terminal when testing stuff, be it engine or mod stuff 17:59 MTDiscord I think it is sensible not to want to spam users with deprecation warnings 17:59 MTDiscord But modders should be made more aware of these settings and encouraged to start Minetest in a terminal 18:00 sfan5 what kind of last century application encourages you to start it in a terminal? 18:00 Krock there's a noticeable amount of modders that very likely develop on Windows, outside the terminal with default settings 18:00 sfan5 (and isn't a terminal app itself) 18:01 Krock Minetest used to start with a terminal/console in the past, but that's no longer the case for 2+ years 18:02 Krock Meeting start. Pinging those who reacted. Zughy, @luatic 18:03 Krock any topics? 18:03 * sfan5 afk (sorry) 18:03 MTDiscord sfan5: There are multiple convenience reasons why I like starting Minetest via the terminal. For one, I can just do minetest --worldname ... --go. 18:03 MTDiscord For two, I get the stack trace / warnings / prints etc. nicely in the terminal right next to my editor. If I start Minetest from the integrated terminal, I can directly shift click "file:line" references to go there. 18:04 Krock other developers will copy the text from the error textarea[] in the mainmenu 18:13 pgimeno is the name change happening today? 18:15 [MatrxMT] unlikely, I was only suggesting to tackle the TODO bullet point list we have 18:21 MTDiscord what name change 18:23 MTDiscord Might be a good time to bring up the core namespace I mentioned the other day 18:28 MTDiscord That mention being "It may be a good idea to officialize the core namespace rather than add another namespace." 18:28 MTDiscord With which v-rob agreed, at least 18:29 pgimeno I agree too but IANACD 18:29 Krock Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers 18:30 Krock "I am not a core dev" 18:30 pgimeno ^ 18:39 MTDiscord I guess someone could give their input on #11391. TL;DR is: PR works and makes sense and essentially fixes up a feature (allows for consistent collision boxes for large plantlike rooted nodes), but if the feature is used, raycasts take twice as long. 18:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11391 -- Add support for static boxes in 'leveled' type; add node box types 'leveled_plantlike[_rooted]' by Wuzzy2 18:40 MTDiscord I'm not happy with the hack or the performance hit, but I could imagine this being useful to some who don't mind it. I think if the performance implications are documented it would be acceptable, but I don't feel strongly about it. 18:41 celeron55 the core namespace was added to support different names of forks, and I think it should be used just like that for a different official name also. having the official name in the code might have a slight marketing benefit when people share code, but I don't think it overcomes the downsides 18:43 [MatrxMT] +1 ^ 18:45 MTDiscord I'm fine with core.*, rip minetest.* 18:50 MTDiscord how about minecore as the official name 19:02 [MatrxMT] celeron55: should it be you the one that reserves the name in the other git platform? 19:06 [MatrxMT] I've linked the draft in the internal discussion 19:11 celeron55 well, I suppose I should, to avoid having to figure out who will 19:12 celeron55 it's just that I don't even have an account there yet. I'll have a look 19:13 [ I don't see the point of a rename 19:19 Krock @luatic What's the cause of the raycast performance drop? I don't see any code part that would be critical in this regard 19:19 MTDiscord Krock: This vastly increases the size of the selection box union in a typical game (MTG): Selection boxes can now be 16 nodes high. Thus many more nodes need to be checked. 19:20 Krock @luatic Selection boxes should be limited the same way as collision boxes. 3m into each direction. 19:21 Krock or was it 1.5m? 19:21 MTDiscord Well they aren't. Rather, performance depends on how large the union of all possible selection boxes is. 19:22 Krock would limiting it be a bad idea? 19:22 MTDiscord It would sort of defeats the purpose of that PR, which is to allow for relatively large selection boxes, matching the large visuals for these nodes. 19:23 MTDiscord Though arguably I think that having (visually) 16 node high nodes was a design mistake in the first place. 19:23 Krock physics won't work on those so I don't think such feature has priority whatsoever - at least for anything outside the collision check range. 19:24 Krock the visual appearance is not necessarily bound to a selection box, which the rooted nodes already show. 19:25 Krock although levelled is assumed to be rather solid, thus having an equally sited selection box does make sense. hmm. 19:26 Krock s/sited/sized/ 19:27 celeron55 by having a massive selection box you risk making it impossible to select nearby nodes 19:27 Krock celeron55: I suppose that's a problem for modders to solve 19:27 celeron55 but of course if the node actually manages all that space, then it shouldn't be an issue 19:27 MTDiscord it does visually occupy that space 19:27 MTDiscord think a large kelp plant 19:28 Krock you could hide other nodes inside of it :3 19:28 MTDiscord yes lol 19:28 MTDiscord this is part of the reason i don't think multiple node large nodes are a particularly good idea 19:48 [MatrxMT] I've just closed all the meeting discussions in the Discussions section, so that only things that are still relevant are displayed 19:48 [MatrxMT] speaking of which, I guess some of you want to check out some "old" security reports that are still there 20:38 MTDiscord re: namespace, fwiw you can use a metatable to deprecate the namespace. on __index, send a warning and unset the metatable 20:52 MTDiscord celeron55: I'm not quite clear on what you mean with "I think it should be used just like that for a different official name also" 20:54 MTDiscord Is that a "core should continue to be used outside of the official name", or "a different official name is like a fork name so core can be used"? 20:55 [MatrxMT] I've also added a comment in the discussion, so that people can express their opinions 21:00 MTDiscord I see I'm late to the party, but I'll post some of my thoughts. Re #11392: I think the "rooted" nodes aren't exactly a good approach, at least not to everything. I think we really need proper liquidlogged nodes, this way or another. If it would take a map format change, we could take a hit at light banks at that point and add colored lighting of course. 21:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11392 -- Allow keyboard only use of formspecs 21:02 MTDiscord Also I'm once again mentioning #14543 21:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14543 -- Add gameid aliases by nauta-turbidus 21:03 MTDiscord And I'd like some core devs to take a look at (and respond to) #15176, at least in terms of opinions on what should be done. 21:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15176 -- Decouple Ambient Occlusion from Shadows 21:03 MTDiscord Any responses would be very welcome. 21:17 MTDiscord Zughy: I wasn't expecting the mass amount of email notifications from your mass discussion closing x) 21:17 [MatrxMT] oh, I'm sorry for that :( 21:19 MTDiscord Not a big deal, I just never expected to get jumpscared by 90 new inbox messages